@@sasho888prm that guy wants to be a slavic bulgarian he is a traitor to he own mother and by mother I do not mean Macedonia 🤣🤣🤣🤣 or maybe he is now a Macedonian because I can not find his channel 🤣😂😆
@@Love78787 he went offline similar time it was known DPNE would win the elections, probably wants to be in the good graces of DPNE - self interest is a powerful thing.
And also how do we go about the fact that they had greek origin names. I read some things that it wasnt like that but I would like you to answer me because you have a lot of historical understanding
ALEKSANDAR imal sestra Kleopatra. pred 25 veka odobruva brak so Kral Ptolomej od EGIPET. poznatata Kralica Kleopatra od pred 23 veka e so Makedonska geneza ! ! !
Hello,,it's king markos,,luv you're work,,Bulgaria's have no identity,,that's why,,it was the Macedonian church, that gave them there identity,,through the church,,,,every one thinks that it was it was the monks,,the monks spread the word,,it was the Macedonian dynasty ,,Byzantine,,thay involved everyone from around the world.,.
“The treatment of “Macedonian” history has the same primary goal as the creation of the “Macedonian” language: to de-Bulgarize the “Macedonians” and create a separate national consciousness.” - Palmer & King, Yugoslav Communism and the Macedonian Question, Chapter 9 “The Encouragement of Macedonian Culture”, Archon Books, 1971
Hussey, J. M.; Louth, Andrew (2010). "The Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire". Oxford History of the Christian Church. Oxford University Press. pp. 100. ISBN 978-0-19-161488-0: "...In the 9th century AD, the Bulgarian tsar Simeon I the Great - following the cultural and political course of his father Boris I - commissioned a new script, the Early Cyrillic alphabet, to be made at the Preslav Literary School in the First Bulgarian Empire, which would replace the Glagolitic script, produced earlier by Saints Cyril and Methodius and the same disciples that created the new Slavic script in Bulgaria. The usage of the Cyrillic script in Bulgaria was made official in 893. The new script became the basis of alphabets used in various languages, especially those of Orthodox Slavic origin, and non-Slavic languages influenced by Bulgarian. For centuries Cyrillic was used by Catholic and Muslim Slavs too (see Bosnian Cyrillic)...".
Great episode Mario and Nolan! Taking step by step and understanding every aspect and context of our national movement gives pretty good and logical answers. Something that Greece and Bulgaria would rather ignore it that accept it. Newer generation must be teached to understand the context of every person, movement or event from the history...without it they like going into battle against the Bulgar trolls armed with their pants only. I do missed two questions that i wanted both of your oppinion. 1. Why in a first place is allowed a Bulgarian historian to speak in our name under the title 'We the Macedonians...'??? 2. Were you reviewing Tchavdar final text or the one that can be find online (because he wrote on that one that is not final and should not be cited)?
Thank you as always! I printed it off the version from this site: books.openedition.org/ceup/890?lang=en To my knowledge, this is the version printed in the final book. And secondly, I think it's called "We the Macedonians" since the book is called "We, the People", so I believe it was going in line with that.
@@marioshistorytalks 👌 Thanks for sharing this link i found the other one.😀 As for the 2nd part my point was, that he should write in the section 'We the Bulgarians' and they should invite Macedonian historian to write on our part. We are independent state we don't need Bulgarian PR's
“Но най-харното, най-хубавото, най-честното ни остана - кърфта цела болгарска, блага!” Димитър Миладинов "Цариградски вестник", год. X, бр. 476, Цариград, 26 март 1860 година.
@@MagnusKeanus ЧЛEНОВИТЕ НА ВМРО ЗА НАЦИОНАЛНАТА ПРИРОДА НА РЕВОЛУЦИОНАРНАТА ОРГАНИЗАЦИЈА И ВРСКАТА СО БУГАРИЈА The Times, London, April 12, 1901, pg. 3-4. "We Macedonians consider ourselves to be an entirely separate national element, and we are not in the least disposed to allow our country to be seized by Bulgaria, Serbia, or Greece. We will, in fact, oppose any such incorporation with all our might. Macedonia must belong to the Macedonians. The misunderstanding has arisen through our residing in Bulgaria. The circumstance of our having prepared a Macedonian insurrection while living in this country led to the conclusion that we were aiming at a union between the two Slav provinces. That is, however, perfectly absurd. If we were to be expelled from Bulgaria and were to settle in Switzerland nobody would suppose that we intended to liberate Macedonia on behalf of Switzerland; we merely go where we find the most favourable opportunities for our revolutionary work."
Браво мой човек! Цитатът утепва всякакви "македонски" напъни да присвояват история. Не съм го чувал това тяхно изказване. Но е точно в десятката! Чудя им се на напъните да доказват недоказуемото. Но тоя Марио е същия. Те нямат дори и муха, а много им се иска да направят слон. Единственото което им остава е да надува и надуват 1 балон с формата на слон. Музейчето им в центъра на Скопие е типичен пример. Пък и самия център е същата стока. Нещо което Вардарска Македония никога не е била. 😊 Не очаквай от Марио да ти постави сърчице😢🎉🎉🎉
Have to disagree with Nolan. You are indeed born American you are born in a certain community. I hope you will consider your statement and see how illogical it is. To see first how ethnicity is created (which is a natural process - Mario maybe can explain what our word народ means - на -род / на -роди) and also perhaps read the Bible. The second you have to look into is who Brits created artificial states or identities and most of the time the minority had the governments given by the Brits. So you have to look at the greater agenda of those constructivists and the atheist. What naturally constitutes ethnicity (which should be considered a nation in a natural way) and see why the later along with the Brits and the Romans started reconstructing or destroying what is natural.
Ова е бугарска парола :))). Еве што напишал пред Илинден Британскиот конзул во Скопје Рафаел Фонтана во писмото до британскиот конзул во Солун Алфред Билиоти: Тие работат на општо бугарско востание и се подготвуваат да сретнат масакр за да го постигнат крајот на нивната визија „Македонија за Македонците“, што значи без сомнение „Македонија на Бугарите“. Македонија на Македонците е димна завеса на ВМРО. ВМРО знае дека големите сили нема да дозволат обединување на Македонија и Бугарија и со оваа парола се обидува да ги измами сите. Всушност, сите разбраа дека идејата е обединување. Македонскиот архив ги објави сите споменици на ВМРО во оригинал - секаде пишува за Бугари. Доктор Татарчев го објаснува и значењето на оваа парола „Македонија на Македонците“ - прво ослободување на Македонија, а потоа обединување во Бугарија. Поддржувач на оваа идеја е и Јане Сандански.
Oh boy, Macedonian Historiography and Bulgarian Historiography. Nothing bad will happen to me in the replies to this comment, for criticizing both, I am sure. Welp, here it goes. 1. Bulgarians Historiography has an unhealthy obsession with Macedonia being "an integral part of Bulgaria, to the point that it ignores Historical sources that do not potray it as such. It also has an unhealthy obsession with Yugoslavia and Tito and "the brainwashing of the Bulgarians living in Macedonia" and that it was Tito and Yugoslavia that "created the Macedonians out of thin air". 1 - A. An example for the former is that Historical Thesis/Papers mention 1 "rebelion of the Cometopulu", the one against the Byzantines. The Byzantines sources on the other hand, mention 2 rebelions, the 1st against Bulgaria which resulted in the Cometopuli pledging their allegiance to the Byzantine Emperor, and a 2nd one agaisnt the Byzantines themselves; 1 - B. An example to the latter is how Historical Thesis/Papers potray the Macedonian Partisans as being "directly under the command of Tito", completely ignoring that Tito had sent an Military Attaché to the Macedonian Partisans. One does not send a Military Attaché to a military commanding structure that is under their own control. 1 - C. An example a combination of the 2 is the potrayal of the Ilinden Uprusing as a part of the "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprusing". Ignoring that it was 2 separate organizations that conducted the uprisings with the only "common factor" being that they had both received support from Bulgaria in the form of fund and weapons. Support which later ceased for one of the organizations, after it had announced that it would create an independent state in the liberated areas rather than have them join Bulgaria, this organization was behind the Ilinden Uprusing and the subsequent Krushevo Republic. 1 - D. The claim that there were 100.000 Bulgarians in macedonia during Yugoslavia. While indeed, Yugoslav census data do show 100.000 Bulgarians, they are census data for the whole of Yugoslavia. The claims not only ignore this, but also that the vast majority of said 100.000 Bulgarians were concentrated in Serbia, rather than Macedonia. 2. Macedonian Historiography has an unhealthy obsession with Ancient History and that Modern Macedonians are the same as Ancient Macedonians, going as far as to make massive leaps of logic that can only be described as "throw everything at the wall until something sticks". Macedonian Historiography, just like Bulgarian Historiography, has an unhealthy obsession with Yugoslavia and Tito and with potraying them in a negative way, even at the cost of completely ignoring historical sources and events. 2 - A. An example of the former is that there is sufficient Archeological and Written Sources, including Alexander the Great's personal Historian and Publicist, that indeed confirm that Ancient Macedonians were distinct from the Hellens, Thracians, Illyrians and Dardanians in both the Burial Rituals as well as Language. However, Historical Thesis/Papers then take the massive leap in logic to take this as proof that Ancient Macedonians and Modern Macedonians are exactly the same, based on absolutely no evidence of any kind. 2 - B. An example of the latter would be criticism aimed at Yugoslavia and Tito for not undertaking a direct military intervention in the Greek Civil War. This is criticizm mainly raised by the Refugees from the Greek Civil War and their descendants. This criticism ignores the fact that USSR and West would have no qualms to crush Yugoslavia in the event that it did so, and, that Yugoslavia did aid the Rebels with funds, training camps and even weapons. It also ignores that Yugoslavia not only welcomes the refugees that remained within it's territory, but also provided full Military Pensions for those that fought in the war. 2 - C. Yugoslavia is potrayed as a state that was deeply anti-Church and that anything related to the Church had been prohibited. These claims, however, ignore that the largest Church in the country was both built and consecrated while macedonia was still a part of Yugoslavia. PS: If You are going to raise a fuss over me saying "Macedonia" rather than "North Macedonia", take a note of the following: 1. I am too lazy to do so, deal with it. 2. I am using the term "Macedonia" in accordance to Article 7 of the Prespa Agreement. 3. I do not care if You are offended or whatnot, go cry me a river and a half.
I would love to see Nolan in a serious academic debate with prof. Ivan Ivanov from University of Cincinnati. Once again, in all your reflections, you proceed from purely Macedonists theses. Bulgarians have always lived in Macedonia - the Macedonian Bulgarians are a historical fact for which there are tons of documents. You dispute the identity of these people and present them as Macedonians by definition deceived by Bulgarian propaganda, but macedonians who did not know this yet. The problem is that the Bulgarians, the Greeks, the Serbs, the Albanians, the Vlachs - they have schools, they have churches, they have their own independent organizations, they have newspapers at that time, they write books - there is nothing like that with the "Macedonians" simply because there were no Macedonians yet. As Professor Raymond Detrez says, the Macedonians arose from the Bulgarian ethnic bosom. Accusing Bulgaria of denying Macedonian identity, even today in Macedonia Bulgarian identity is denied. You cannot historically present every Bulgarian from Macedonia as a Macedonian assimilated by the Bulgarians - Mario is constantly trying to push this thesis and Nola does the same. By the does Nola read bulgarian? Does he work with original document or like most american "PhD"s he just reads secondary sources. I saw interview with american associated professor from NorthWest who does not read any Balkan language, but wrote a thesis on the Macedonian question :))).
MAKEDONIJA vo BIBLIJA SPOMNATA 33 PATI. pred 20 veka avtori na BIBLIJA -- ISUSOVI Apostoli. Apostol Pavle ima Poslanie kade toj zboruva za Lidija Makedonka.
@@bmpo Are you kidding me. All his books are financed by Soros and associate professor Srefan Dechev who is a managing director of Open Society. They are all part of Soros foundation in Bulgaria. We have to be honest and admit, that even they are very clear what Goce Delchev is ethnic bulgarian, tsar Samoil is bulgarian.
@@ЈанеСандански-л1и My advice is to read world renown historians on the macedonian question. One of the best is Richard Crampton from Oxford. People like Marinov are just a joke compared to Richard Crampton
The only issue we Bulgarians have with the Macedonism is it's anti-Bulgarian foundation, as stated by Stojan Novakovich (the founder of the Macedonism). Macedonians are a separate nation now and no one has anything against. As soon as you cut a bit the anti-Bulgarian rhetoric, everything will improve dramatically ;)
Just change your position ! What could you do if our propaganda is that your name Bulgarian is mistake ? Nobody made Thrace-an Revolution when you realise that you cannot have Bulgaria di San Stefano territory , and no regret would accur to your new generation ! You have eaten your humble pie ! Now is to late !
I want you to please answer this . The thing about claiming an old tribe to be like the connection to a modern nation happens , when its get ridiculous is to try claim that out of a nation that never lost its languange and traditions . Yes we greeks called ourselves romioi but we never lost our greekness in the greek peninsula . We can claim because we never changed romios and greek its the same thing the continuation of greek civilisation . You out of nowhere call macedonians non greek just to fit your narrative which is ridiculous . Is like americans starting call themselves native americans sure they have some dna inside of them but thats it nothing else .How woudl this feel to native americans?
Did the Pontic refugees who largely did not speak Greek retain their "Greekness" when they stepped foot in Macedonia for the first time in the 20s? And are they more direct descendants to the ancients than the people who have lived there for at least 1,500 years? Laughable.
@@marioshistorytalks First things first not all greeks in macedonai are pontics , yes indeed 100 year ago macedonia was multicultular but it doesnt change the fact that pontics are part of the greek nation and kept their own greek dialect .
@@marioshistorytalks Your argument is that in modern greek macedonia were not any greeks like 100 years ago which is false they were aminority and its exactly is my point . Like americans claiming native americans
@@Petreski447 Because he never invites people who can present in a dialog knowledgeable people who can present alternative views and arguments. His channel is like propaganda- it is his truth and his truth only.
@@andromeda-p8b In 2008, Viktor Kanzurov was arrested in an internet cafe оf the student dormitory "Goce Delchev" in Skopje, where he indulged in public masturbation in front of others.
Hm, interesting 🤔 Question for free Starbucks coffee since there are thousands of documents available regarding the topic for free: What ethnicity declared emigrants from Macedonia upon arriving in America on Ellis Island before 1945 (in free World).They never went to Bulgarian school, never been in Bulgaria, Even never had seen a single post card from Sofia?! Clue: What ethnicity were Johan Strauss and Mozart born in Austria in 19 th Century?! Have fun 😊.
Search of the IMORO/IMRO past as an attempt to legitimise unsure present identity proves futile. If modemodern-day ethnic Macedonians are considered as heirs of the 1903 revolutionaries who described themselves, according to almost all sources, as Bulgarians, the question: who are the Macedonians today, it would be senseless. There is not much to be gained from a search for a Macedonian national lineage throughout the Middle Ages and Ottoman era because according all records modern Bulgarians and Macedonians comprised a single people As a consequence of Bulgaria's independence from the Ottoman Empire and subsequent events like the Balkan wars, Bulgarians in the Macedonian region found themselves detached from their compatriots in Bulgaria. This separation catalyzed the emergence of a regional identity which ultimately led to the introduction of a new ethnic identity, which borrowed the name of the broader Macedonian region. Everything else is mythology.
prespa dogovor -- krivic'no delo. minister nema ingerencii da menuva IME na MAKEDONIJA. 2024 e podnesena krivic'na prijava protiv Nikola Dimitrov. dogovor.. u gjubre.
this man dose not miss, ever video a banger!
Great video and greetings from Berovo
We need u in our govermant man!!!
Never say never!
Team up with Kiril from Samuil's Fortress
@@sasho888prm that guy wants to be a slavic bulgarian he is a traitor to he own mother and by mother I do not mean Macedonia 🤣🤣🤣🤣 or maybe he is now a Macedonian because I can not find his channel 🤣😂😆
@@Love78787 EVERY BEST ! ! ! Tatjana from MAKEDONIJA
@@Love78787 he went offline similar time it was known DPNE would win the elections, probably wants to be in the good graces of DPNE - self interest is a powerful thing.
@Mario’s History Talks Next time make sure the volume is up
Big thank you Mario for what you do for our beloved Macedonian! Pozdrav od Makedoncite od Australia.
Great video guys!
Hey Mario. I'm Macedonian and am just curious. Is the greeks saying Alexander's sister was Thessaloniki true?
And also how do we go about the fact that they had greek origin names. I read some things that it wasnt like that but I would like you to answer me because you have a lot of historical understanding
ALEKSANDAR imal sestra Kleopatra. pred 25 veka odobruva brak so
Kral Ptolomej od EGIPET. poznatata Kralica Kleopatra od pred 23 veka
e so Makedonska geneza ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Ок, фала ти брат поздрав!
@@urmommyisgayasfasf82949 jas Tatjana sum z'ensko ! !
Hello Mario, I love your videos
Not first, but certainly early!
Hey Mario good to see you back and please keep up the great work
Nice
Hello,,it's king markos,,luv you're work,,Bulgaria's have no identity,,that's why,,it was the Macedonian church, that gave them there identity,,through the church,,,,every one thinks that it was it was the monks,,the monks spread the word,,it was the Macedonian dynasty ,,Byzantine,,thay involved everyone from around the world.,.
MAKEDONIJA -- 25 CENTURIES ! ! Vizantia before 13 centuries.
“The treatment of “Macedonian” history has the same primary goal as the creation of the “Macedonian” language: to de-Bulgarize the “Macedonians” and create a separate national consciousness.” - Palmer & King, Yugoslav Communism and the Macedonian Question, Chapter 9 “The Encouragement of Macedonian Culture”, Archon Books, 1971
Hussey, J. M.; Louth, Andrew (2010). "The Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire". Oxford History of the Christian Church. Oxford University Press. pp. 100. ISBN 978-0-19-161488-0:
"...In the 9th century AD, the Bulgarian tsar Simeon I the Great - following the cultural and political course of his father Boris I - commissioned a new script, the Early Cyrillic alphabet, to be made at the Preslav Literary School in the First Bulgarian Empire, which would replace the Glagolitic script, produced earlier by Saints Cyril and Methodius and the same disciples that created the new Slavic script in Bulgaria. The usage of the Cyrillic script in Bulgaria was made official in 893. The new script became the basis of alphabets used in various languages, especially those of Orthodox Slavic origin, and non-Slavic languages influenced by Bulgarian. For centuries Cyrillic was used by Catholic and Muslim Slavs too (see Bosnian Cyrillic)...".
MACEDONIAN HISTORY 25 CENTURIES from KING PHILIP ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 "MACEDONIAN HISTORY 80 YEARS from TITO ! ! !"
Greetings from Smilevo, MACEDONIA. Another great video!
. DA Z'IVEE M A K E D O N I J A ! ! !
M A K E D O N I J A TO MACEDONIANS ! ! ! !
@eleonoremoreau5717.....
you eat brown.
MAKEDONCI 25 VEKA. DA Z'IVEE M A K E D O N I J A ! ! !
@eleonoremoreau5717 TATJANA MAKEDONKA ! ! !
g u s k a.
Did Samuel's Fortress get the Malcolm X treatment ?
SAMOIL FORTRES 13 CENTURIES IN OHRID --- MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
Great episode Mario and Nolan!
Taking step by step and understanding every aspect and context of our national movement gives pretty good and logical answers.
Something that Greece and Bulgaria would rather ignore it that accept it. Newer generation must be teached to understand the context of every person, movement or event from the history...without it they like going into battle against the Bulgar trolls armed with their pants only.
I do missed two questions that i wanted both of your oppinion.
1. Why in a first place is allowed a Bulgarian historian to speak in our name under the title 'We the Macedonians...'???
2. Were you reviewing Tchavdar final text or the one that can be find online (because he wrote on that one that is not final and should not be cited)?
Thank you as always! I printed it off the version from this site: books.openedition.org/ceup/890?lang=en To my knowledge, this is the version printed in the final book.
And secondly, I think it's called "We the Macedonians" since the book is called "We, the People", so I believe it was going in line with that.
@@marioshistorytalks 👌
Thanks for sharing this link i found the other one.😀
As for the 2nd part my point was, that he should write in the section 'We the Bulgarians' and they should invite Macedonian historian to write on our part. We are independent state we don't need Bulgarian PR's
@eleonoremoreau5717 Што те погоди тебе ѓубре аспарухово? Вистината те боли татарке?
@eleonoremoreau5717 гледам твојов профил асли точен. Пиши се Аспарух Омуртагов и повели да попушиш гнасо татарска
@eleonoremoreau5717 рече педерстичното татарче скриено зад женски профил.🤣🤣🤣🤣 Елеонор, така ли е?
🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰
Mario, can you do a video on the Bible where st. Paul is talking about Macedonia and the Macedonians.
Greatings from London .
Hi I’ve already done it! Check my videos from 2020
@@marioshistorytalks OK, will do ,thank.
Keep the great work 👍
Да бе апостол Павел написал писмо до македонците!!! 😅😅😅😅
Сосем им хлопа..... 🤗🤗🤗😎😁.
Павел написал писмо на македонците на гръцки 😅😅😅😅
@andreasmichael5022 Atina ,glupco.
Greece e sozdadena na 1882 godina .
Prvo procitaj ja Biblijata ,ne tropaj zeleni gluposti
“Но най-харното, най-хубавото,
най-честното ни остана - кърфта
цела болгарска, блага!”
Димитър Миладинов
"Цариградски вестник", год. X, бр. 476, Цариград, 26 март 1860 година.
DIMITAR i KONSTANTIN rodeni vo Struga --- MAKEDONIJA.
BRAK'A MILADINOVI SE MAKEDONCI ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 А ти северномакедонка.
IN MAKEDONIJA EVERYTHING IS MACEDONIAN ! ! ! !
@@MagnusKeanus ЧЛEНОВИТЕ НА ВМРО ЗА НАЦИОНАЛНАТА ПРИРОДА НА РЕВОЛУЦИОНАРНАТА ОРГАНИЗАЦИЈА И ВРСКАТА СО БУГАРИЈА
The Times, London, April 12, 1901, pg. 3-4.
"We Macedonians consider ourselves to be an entirely separate national element, and we are not in the least disposed to allow our country to be seized by Bulgaria, Serbia, or Greece. We will, in fact, oppose any such incorporation with all our might. Macedonia must belong to the Macedonians. The misunderstanding has arisen through our residing in Bulgaria. The circumstance of our having prepared a Macedonian insurrection while living in this country led to the conclusion that we were aiming at a union between the two Slav provinces. That is, however, perfectly absurd. If we were to be expelled from Bulgaria and were to settle in Switzerland nobody would suppose that we intended to liberate Macedonia on behalf of Switzerland; we merely go where we find the most favourable opportunities for our revolutionary work."
Браво мой човек! Цитатът утепва всякакви "македонски" напъни да присвояват история. Не съм го чувал това тяхно изказване. Но е точно в десятката! Чудя им се на напъните да доказват недоказуемото. Но тоя Марио е същия. Те нямат дори и муха, а много им се иска да направят слон. Единственото което им остава е да надува и надуват 1 балон с формата на слон. Музейчето им в центъра на Скопие е типичен пример. Пък и самия център е същата стока. Нещо което Вардарска Македония никога не е била. 😊
Не очаквай от Марио да ти постави сърчице😢🎉🎉🎉
Have to disagree with Nolan. You are indeed born American you are born in a certain community. I hope you will consider your statement and see how illogical it is. To see first how ethnicity is created (which is a natural process - Mario maybe can explain what our word народ means - на -род / на -роди) and also perhaps read the Bible. The second you have to look into is who Brits created artificial states or identities and most of the time the minority had the governments given by the Brits. So you have to look at the greater agenda of those constructivists and the atheist. What naturally constitutes ethnicity (which should be considered a nation in a natural way) and see why the later along with the Brits and the Romans started reconstructing or destroying what is natural.
MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA od FILIP KRAL NA MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
МАКЕДОНЦИ 25 ВЕКА. М А К Е Д О Н И Ј А ПРЕКРАСНА ЗЕМЈА ! ! !
пред 25 века ФИЛИП КРАЛ. АЛЕКСАНДАР ЦАР.
М А К Е Д О Н И Ј А ПРЕКРАСНА ЗЕМЈА ! ! !
@eleonoremoreau5717......
лај .
@eleonoremoreau5717 JAS SUM MAKEDONKA.
ti ..... gjubre.
Македонија на Македонците
Ова е бугарска парола :))). Еве што напишал пред Илинден Британскиот конзул во Скопје Рафаел Фонтана во писмото до британскиот конзул во Солун Алфред Билиоти:
Тие работат на општо бугарско востание и се подготвуваат да сретнат масакр за да го постигнат крајот на нивната визија „Македонија за Македонците“, што значи без сомнение „Македонија на Бугарите“.
Македонија на Македонците е димна завеса на ВМРО. ВМРО знае дека големите сили нема да дозволат обединување на Македонија и Бугарија и со оваа парола се обидува да ги измами сите. Всушност, сите разбраа дека идејата е обединување. Македонскиот архив ги објави сите споменици на ВМРО во оригинал - секаде пишува за Бугари. Доктор Татарчев го објаснува и значењето на оваа парола „Македонија на Македонците“ - прво ослободување на Македонија, а потоа обединување во Бугарија. Поддржувач на оваа идеја е и Јане Сандански.
Това на какъв език е приятел👀?
Но по принцип съм съгласен с изказването. Интересно кога Македония ще се освободи от сърбизацията?
Oh boy, Macedonian Historiography and Bulgarian Historiography. Nothing bad will happen to me in the replies to this comment, for criticizing both, I am sure. Welp, here it goes.
1. Bulgarians Historiography has an unhealthy obsession with Macedonia being "an integral part of Bulgaria, to the point that it ignores Historical sources that do not potray it as such. It also has an unhealthy obsession with Yugoslavia and Tito and "the brainwashing of the Bulgarians living in Macedonia" and that it was Tito and Yugoslavia that "created the Macedonians out of thin air".
1 - A. An example for the former is that Historical Thesis/Papers mention 1 "rebelion of the Cometopulu", the one against the Byzantines. The Byzantines sources on the other hand, mention 2 rebelions, the 1st against Bulgaria which resulted in the Cometopuli pledging their allegiance to the Byzantine Emperor, and a 2nd one agaisnt the Byzantines themselves;
1 - B. An example to the latter is how Historical Thesis/Papers potray the Macedonian Partisans as being "directly under the command of Tito", completely ignoring that Tito had sent an Military Attaché to the Macedonian Partisans. One does not send a Military Attaché to a military commanding structure that is under their own control.
1 - C. An example a combination of the 2 is the potrayal of the Ilinden Uprusing as a part of the "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprusing". Ignoring that it was 2 separate organizations that conducted the uprisings with the only "common factor" being that they had both received support from Bulgaria in the form of fund and weapons. Support which later ceased for one of the organizations, after it had announced that it would create an independent state in the liberated areas rather than have them join Bulgaria, this organization was behind the Ilinden Uprusing and the subsequent Krushevo Republic.
1 - D. The claim that there were 100.000 Bulgarians in macedonia during Yugoslavia. While indeed, Yugoslav census data do show 100.000 Bulgarians, they are census data for the whole of Yugoslavia. The claims not only ignore this, but also that the vast majority of said 100.000 Bulgarians were concentrated in Serbia, rather than Macedonia.
2. Macedonian Historiography has an unhealthy obsession with Ancient History and that Modern Macedonians are the same as Ancient Macedonians, going as far as to make massive leaps of logic that can only be described as "throw everything at the wall until something sticks". Macedonian Historiography, just like Bulgarian Historiography, has an unhealthy obsession with Yugoslavia and Tito and with potraying them in a negative way, even at the cost of completely ignoring historical sources and events.
2 - A. An example of the former is that there is sufficient Archeological and Written Sources, including Alexander the Great's personal Historian and Publicist, that indeed confirm that Ancient Macedonians were distinct from the Hellens, Thracians, Illyrians and Dardanians in both the Burial Rituals as well as Language. However, Historical Thesis/Papers then take the massive leap in logic to take this as proof that Ancient Macedonians and Modern Macedonians are exactly the same, based on absolutely no evidence of any kind.
2 - B. An example of the latter would be criticism aimed at Yugoslavia and Tito for not undertaking a direct military intervention in the Greek Civil War. This is criticizm mainly raised by the Refugees from the Greek Civil War and their descendants. This criticism ignores the fact that USSR and West would have no qualms to crush Yugoslavia in the event that it did so, and, that Yugoslavia did aid the Rebels with funds, training camps and even weapons. It also ignores that Yugoslavia not only welcomes the refugees that remained within it's territory, but also provided full Military Pensions for those that fought in the war.
2 - C. Yugoslavia is potrayed as a state that was deeply anti-Church and that anything related to the Church had been prohibited. These claims, however, ignore that the largest Church in the country was both built and consecrated while macedonia was still a part of Yugoslavia.
PS: If You are going to raise a fuss over me saying "Macedonia" rather than "North Macedonia", take a note of the following:
1. I am too lazy to do so, deal with it.
2. I am using the term "Macedonia" in accordance to Article 7 of the Prespa Agreement.
3. I do not care if You are offended or whatnot, go cry me a river and a half.
M A K E D O N I J A 25 CENTURIES ! ! Bulgaria 140 years.
I would love to see Nolan in a serious academic debate with prof. Ivan Ivanov from University of Cincinnati.
Once again, in all your reflections, you proceed from purely Macedonists theses. Bulgarians have always lived in Macedonia - the Macedonian Bulgarians are a historical fact for which there are tons of documents. You dispute the identity of these people and present them as Macedonians by definition deceived by Bulgarian propaganda, but macedonians who did not know this yet. The problem is that the Bulgarians, the Greeks, the Serbs, the Albanians, the Vlachs - they have schools, they have churches, they have their own independent organizations, they have newspapers at that time, they write books - there is nothing like that with the "Macedonians" simply because there were no Macedonians yet. As Professor Raymond Detrez says, the Macedonians arose from the Bulgarian ethnic bosom. Accusing Bulgaria of denying Macedonian identity, even today in Macedonia Bulgarian identity is denied. You cannot historically present every Bulgarian from Macedonia as a Macedonian assimilated by the Bulgarians - Mario is constantly trying to push this thesis and Nola does the same.
By the does Nola read bulgarian? Does he work with original document or like most american "PhD"s he just reads secondary sources. I saw interview with american associated professor from NorthWest who does not read any Balkan language, but wrote a thesis on the Macedonian question :))).
You sound like you are breathing from the mouth
He should have Viktor Kanzurov on his channel.
@@astralisranger517 VICTOR KANZUROV AFTER DARK HE CAN'T FIND HIS WAY HOME HE IS DUMB LIKE A NAIL IN THE CONCRETE !
@@astralisranger517 Yes, Knazurov is good too, I've no idea whether they can make fluent conversation in english.
@@DrLjub816 If you've nothing to say, don't comment. "breathing from the mouth" is not an argument for anything.
Македонец е крв Македонскиот предок е Библиски тоа е Македон - Јаван внукот на Ное. 😇
Адам е бил Македонец.
Викале му Даме.
MAKEDONIJA vo BIBLIJA SPOMNATA 33 PATI. pred 20 veka
avtori na BIBLIJA -- ISUSOVI Apostoli. Apostol Pavle ima Poslanie
kade toj zboruva za Lidija Makedonka.
Хахаха и ха-ха 😅😅😅😅.
Help to form the state, not to invent a nationality, wtf.
Mario, why Marinov. Marinov is well known macedonist? Why you never read the other papers from serious academic?
Marinov could hardly be classified as a Macedonist.
@@bmpo Are you kidding me. All his books are financed by Soros and associate professor Srefan Dechev who is a managing director of Open Society. They are all part of Soros foundation in Bulgaria. We have to be honest and admit, that even they are very clear what Goce Delchev is ethnic bulgarian, tsar Samoil is bulgarian.
@@bmpo MARINOV E MAKEDONEC ! ! !
q q .
Marinov is a Macedonist? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 Go on tell us about one serious academic from Bulgaria that we should learn from? 🤡
@@ЈанеСандански-л1и My advice is to read world renown historians on the macedonian question. One of the best is Richard Crampton from Oxford. People like Marinov are just a joke compared to Richard Crampton
Reveal the letters of Goce Delchev to Nikola Malesevski:D
GOCE DELC'EV LIVE IN MAKEDONIJA. His letters ??
MACEDONIANS KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOCE ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 писмото на Гоце Делчев до Никола Малешевски?😃
The only issue we Bulgarians have with the Macedonism is it's anti-Bulgarian foundation, as stated by Stojan Novakovich (the founder of the Macedonism). Macedonians are a separate nation now and no one has anything against. As soon as you cut a bit the anti-Bulgarian rhetoric, everything will improve dramatically ;)
Just change your position !
What could you do if our propaganda is that your name Bulgarian is mistake ?
Nobody made Thrace-an Revolution when you realise that you cannot have Bulgaria di San Stefano territory , and no regret would accur to your new generation !
You have eaten your humble pie !
Now is to late !
@@voskreglavincevska7080 sutch your ass up ur grown woman trying to spread macedonian propaganda go do the waundery or somthing
@@voskreglavincevska7080 Which of our two statements looks more like a propaganda? Have a nice life ;)
@@danieljordanov
Not my statements , but my vise reasoning on your stupid and late reaction !
You have shortage of a pride in this 21 century !
@@danieljordanov THIS IS MACEDONIAN MEDIUM.
2 years ..... bla--bla.
I want you to please answer this . The thing about claiming an old tribe to be like the connection to a modern nation happens , when its get ridiculous is to try claim that out of a nation that never lost its languange and traditions . Yes we greeks called ourselves romioi but we never lost our greekness in the greek peninsula . We can claim because we never changed romios and greek its the same thing the continuation of greek civilisation . You out of nowhere call macedonians non greek just to fit your narrative which is ridiculous . Is like americans starting call themselves native americans sure they have some dna inside of them but thats it nothing else .How woudl this feel to native americans?
Did the Pontic refugees who largely did not speak Greek retain their "Greekness" when they stepped foot in Macedonia for the first time in the 20s? And are they more direct descendants to the ancients than the people who have lived there for at least 1,500 years?
Laughable.
@@marioshistorytalks First things first not all greeks in macedonai are pontics , yes indeed 100 year ago macedonia was multicultular but it doesnt change the fact that pontics are part of the greek nation and kept their own greek dialect .
@@marioshistorytalks Your argument is that in modern greek macedonia were not any greeks like 100 years ago which is false they were aminority and its exactly is my point . Like americans claiming native americans
@@marioshistorytalks Overall brother in greece we dont make the distinction we say we all greeks from macedonia to cyprus
MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA. Greece 190 godini.
Please invite Viktor Kanzurov on your channel.
that guy is gay
Why would he invite him?
he is gay
@@Petreski447 Because he never invites people who can present in a dialog knowledgeable people who can present alternative views and arguments. His channel is like propaganda- it is his truth and his truth only.
@@andromeda-p8b In 2008, Viktor Kanzurov was arrested in an internet cafe оf the student dormitory "Goce Delchev" in Skopje, where he indulged in public masturbation in front of others.
Hm, interesting 🤔
Question for free Starbucks coffee since there are thousands of documents available regarding the topic for free:
What ethnicity declared emigrants from Macedonia upon arriving in America on Ellis Island before 1945 (in free World).They never went to Bulgarian school, never been in Bulgaria, Even never had seen a single post card from Sofia?! Clue:
What ethnicity were Johan Strauss and Mozart born in Austria in 19 th Century?! Have fun 😊.
MACEDONIAN IDENTITY 25 CENTURIES ! ! ! @ you dance .. Betoven.
@@tatjanavelkova5814
Only 25 Centuries Macedonian identity?!
Macedono- bulgarians about the same. We are brothers and sisters☺️.We all dance teskoto.
@@mikicrown5532 MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA ! ! !
ti igraj c'oc'ek.
@@mikicrown5532 MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA ! ! !
makedono - bulgari ? u tvoj kaktus.
@@tatjanavelkova5814
Potpolno te razbiram.Imam prekrasna devojka Bulgarka so isto ime I prezime kako tvoeto- Tatjana Velkova!!☺️
Search of the IMORO/IMRO past as an attempt to legitimise unsure present identity proves futile.
If modemodern-day ethnic Macedonians are considered as heirs of the 1903 revolutionaries who described themselves, according to almost all sources, as Bulgarians, the question: who are the Macedonians today, it would be senseless.
There is not much to be gained from a search for a Macedonian national lineage throughout the Middle Ages and Ottoman era because according all records modern Bulgarians and Macedonians comprised a single people
As a consequence of Bulgaria's independence from the Ottoman Empire and subsequent events like the Balkan wars, Bulgarians in the Macedonian region found themselves detached from their compatriots in Bulgaria.
This separation catalyzed the emergence of a regional identity which ultimately led to the introduction of a new ethnic identity, which borrowed the name of the broader Macedonian region.
Everything else is mythology.
VMRO osnovana 1893 vo PIRINSKA MAKEDONIJA od MAKEDONCI ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 основана е во Солун, научи нешто пред да пишуваш.
VMRO osnovana vo PIRINSKA MAKEDONIJA od MAKEDONCI.
a VMRO registrirana 1893 vo Solun --- EGEJSKA MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 ајде кажи го градот и датата од Пиринска кога е 'основана' за да биде циркусот комплетен.
na istok od MAKEDONIJA E PIRINSKA MAKEDONIJA.
na jug od MAKEDONIJA --- EGEJSKA MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
I thing we have to make a remix of macedonain tigers by suzi and make it the official athem of NORTH macedonia
prespa dogovor -- krivic'no delo. minister nema ingerencii da menuva IME
na MAKEDONIJA. 2024 e podnesena krivic'na prijava protiv Nikola Dimitrov.
dogovor.. u gjubre.
Ti gledaj si tamo da si go slavis vasiot Kan asparuh, ne baraj rogoj za drugi,ne pikaj go nosot kaj sto ne mu e mesto zasto....
Dzenem be tatarce
@@MarcoPolo-mp i am from pirinacedonia... Albanian
@@МомчилЕфтимов so U r in not in a position to talk about Macedonia, ok, talk about Albania what you want to change,
Шарам барам бугарски пасош девизи унапред што да праиме дека сите сме си блгари
MAKEDONIJA EXIST 25 CENTURIES. Blgaria -- 140 years.
😅
@@bloodthirstybg... kezi se. Blgaria 140 years.
M A K E D O N I J A 25 CENTURIES ! ! ! ! !
TodorOV tatar