Paris to Milan with TGV Inoui - Across snowy Alps by high speed train
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- Bonjour à tous,
Welcome to this new trip report across the Alps with an high speed train. After the excellent review of the Frecciarossa it's time to review the original operator on the Paris to Milan route - SNCF and its TGV Inoui service.
Enjoy :)
- TRIP INFORMATION -
RECORDED IN JANUARY 2022
Railroad company: SNCF
Train type : TGV Réseau 4503
From : Paris Gare de Lyon to Milano Porta Garibaldi
Time : 07h03
Price : 79€ - $82
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00:00 : Introduction
01:22 : SNCF vs Trenitalia
02:13 : Gare de Lyon
02:48 : Our TGVs
03:15 : The Italian TGV
04:42 : Boarding
05:00 : Seat Check
06:19 : High speed line Paris - Lyon
06:58 : Ascension of the Alps
07:57 : Chambéry Challes-Les-Eaux
08:34 : Gorgeous Alps
10:17 : Mid roll ads
10:43 : Modane, border stop !
13:11 : Snack time
13:28 : Crossing the border in the Frejus tunnel
13:49 : Buongiorno 🇮🇹
14:33 : Faster Frecciarossa
14:54 : Walkthrough of the train
16:38 : Toilets Time
17:10 : Milan - On time
17:24 : Thoughts and conclusion
18:07 : Outro
If I had to travel this route I would definitely do it by train. Two and a half years ago I took the train from Zurich-Vienna rather than flying. It was such a pleasant and beautifu trip. I watched your Frecciarossa video a few months ago. I would definitely choose that over the TGV right now.
Railjet💞
@@marioluxrodriguez5048 The EuroCity 163/164 is way cooler with it's panorama coach
@@Rodoeht12345 also took it from Innsbruck to Verona but the Railjet is so comfortable even in second class.
@@Rodoeht12345 from where this train
@@aa77655 It runs between Graz and Zürich
Has to be the Frecciarosa 😍 These TGV’s really need a refresh and I think SNCF needs to rethink the onboard service
They will and they are going to. This is a TGV « réseau ». Soon to be retired
@Rich_Rich yes, the tgv M is the best tgv 😍😍😍
Je suis italien et je préfére le Frecciarossa, mais le TGV est beau aussi. Belle vidéo!
Excellent report, thank you! I work in passenger rail here in the US, and am absolutely in love with the French system. My wife and I are planning to ride the Frecciarossa from Lyon to Milan in December - a trip I am very much looking forward to. I appreciate the comparison.
It is really interesting as an Australian, because' there in Europe 800 KM to 1000 KM takes you to cross country, even into other countries. Sydney-Brisbane is equivalent to this TGV route. add another 1000 KM in Australia and you'll reach Melbourne. Our shortest intercity distance is 1000 KM per City on the southern East coast or head north of Brisbane you'll need 1700 KM to get all the way to cairns or 2689 if you want to reach the tip of Queensland as far north as Australia goes. Darwin-Perth that's a 4592 KM trip halfway to the far east or west. I'm rambling on a bit here, but my point is we have a need for high-speed rail, just not the population, but every country has its charms.
Yeah honestly you're right, high speed rail only works in dense population centers tbh
High speed rail only works on both highly dense population and simultaneously for trips on the 300-900Km range. That said, planes are the less bad situation for Australia. As you say: Each country has its charm. High speed rail should to be wonderful for the USA though, and they haven't it!...
@@nunagoras High speed rail would only work on very few densely populated corridors in the US. Most of the US west of the Mississippi is empty.
@@mirzaahmed6589 Very few corridors? Not so!... If one thinks on both the west and east coasts, one has a multitude of them all, and one can imagine a coast-to-coast one, but that could be financially very unlikely to be possible... Simply me thinks the Americans are somewhat satisfied with their plane industry, so they don't consider trains as an option... Am I right?
The best part of tail travel aren't the city to city connections, but the fact that in between those cities other towns can be served, something that this TGV does rather well - very few people will do the entire Paris to Milan as these are well connected by plane, but they'll do other segments.
Melbourne to Sydney would definitely be a good HS line, with stops on places such as Shepperton, Albury, Wagga Wagga, Canberra, Goulburn, and from there it could connect to the new airport in Sydney, and stop in Parramatta before the terminus. That's a lot of potential!
Je te rejoins sur le manque de service… vivement que le Lyon-Turin soit opérationnel pour rendre encore plus intéressant cette relation ferroviaire. Et merci encore pour cette super vidéo 👏🏻👍🏻
I’ve travelled Paris to Turin and Paris to Milan quite a few times for many years. These TGV sets can do the speed on the high speed lines but the interiors were giving the impression of being ‘tired’ nearly 10 years ago. However, I can’t see SNCF doing much about them until the new line is built through the Alps so I think they’ll continue to lose out the the Italian trains for quite a while.
Boss of SNCF has said TGV M will be deployed on this route. The new unit ought to be available years before the new line is built.
Gorgeous Trip! Well done 😉
3:16-4:43 The reason for this is that Italy 3kv DC requires a 1.45m Pantograph Copper Contact Strip or Carbon contact Strip for the TGV 25kv AC. The same thing happens for TGVs that run on HRR SKA HMA (Dovetail Games abbreviations for Dortmund to Duisburg line via Essen Bochum Koln Aachen and Munchen Augsburg) the DC pantograph which is 1.95m Metalized Carbon is being used to feed DB OBB 15kv 16.7hz AC
I was about to write the same but I saw your comment first, I'd just add that at 12:25 the AC pantograph is still taking 1500 V DC from the catenary, since the switchover is just a couple of hundreds of meters towards Italy. This was made to allow both French and Italian trains (or at least, most of them) to operate with no particular problem. The same solution was used in Ventimiglia, where the Italian and French lines switches respectively from 3000 V DC and from 25000 V AC to 1500 V DC just before the station, on both sides (although some Italian trains are not allow to operate under 1500 V DC).
@@marcodamasio thanks for the explanation and that should explain why FS uses E402BF E412 locomotives on these stations because they have the necessary equipment to run inside Modane Frejus Tunnel and Ventimiglia Marseille Cannes Monaco Milano Cle the 1.45m copper contact strip being used to run off French 1.5kv DC on E402BF and E412. Although 1.5kv DC SNCF is 1.95m pantographs Metalized carbon contact strip.
It's the same scenario for France to Germany services like Paris Nord to Dortmund via Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr Duisburg Essen Bochum Dortmund Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen Paris Est Augsburg München Hbf on Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg where TGV uses DC Pantograph to take power from Deutsche Bahn Netze ÖBB 15kv 16.7hz AC 1.95m contact strip Carbon for the TGV it's using Metalized carbon strip 1.95m under 15kv 16.7hz AC.
@@marcodamasio So do they have a seperate setting for AC panto for 1.5KV DC or do they just switch it to the Italian 3KV DC setting and take 1.5KV DC from the overhead wires at reduced power?
@@EpicThe112 exactly, the E402BF had mounted a third pantograph, to be used exclusively in France
@ on modern trains due to lots of electronics the 3kV DC and 1,5kV DC need separate inputs, they might be using the same pantograph but there has to be something to convert the current on board. This explains why the new Rock and Pop Trenitalia trains can't reach Ventimiglia, while the older trains and most locomotives can operate under 1,5kV DC with just less power.
Thank you Thibault for this presentation. I’ll stick with Frecciarossa Executive Class 😉👍🏻. SCNF isn’t even worth considering for my money for such a long trip. Oh sure flying is faster but I’d rather travel through that gorgeous scenery than over it. 😉
And with the hassle at the airport why wouldn’t you take the train.
italian isn't cheap: 135€
@@Yep6803 still you can get a better service in Frecciarossa's Premium Class than in the TGV's first, so you can pay way less or the same amount (depending on when you buy the ticket) for a better experience
@@giuseppealessandromariafin9434 absolutely, i don't think cheap means better...usually by train you travel when you need more space for luggages and freedom than airplanes(i would say it is cheaper low cost)...oh, lo dico alla italiana, te inculano! ahahah
no seriously, paying a little more you can switch the hour of departure and even if paying a little extra ou can...Italo and SNCF(both TNV) wont let you!
Enjoyable video, thanks. We did that journey in 2014 just after the rail strikes and it was chaotic (we arrived at Chambery to find that we had to unexpectedly change trains, with no announcements on the train - it was only the fact that my partner speaks French fluently and overheard a conversation in the carriage that we managed to get off in time before it headed back to Paris). Even in the relative comfort of first class, 7 hours on a TGV with limited legroom was just too much. The scenery was fantastic but I think we'd take the Frecciarossa over the TGV in future. 7 hours without any onboard catering is outrageous. If Trenitalia could provide it then there was no excuse for SNCF.
Great video .. we are going Milan-Paris on the Frecciarossa this summer, which I already knew was the right choice but you have confirmed it 😃
Thank you for your service
Now that looks incredible and spectaular. 😍
This route has been neglected for years, now Trenitalia's bringing the competition into France, watch how quickly these get improved haha
Kool - one of my favorite TGV trips!
The TGV is still legendary
I will take the train every time! Great video, thanks. Cheers from Australia.
Une vidéo pleine de neige alors qu'il fait actuellement 30° à Paris, ça fait du bien
It is very beautiful and cannot be beat by car or airline. Great viewing thank you.
Awesome. Full watch 👍👍👍 ciao from italy 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
Gorgeous landscape
Nice video. Your English captions still crack me up at times Thibault 🤣🤣🤣
I love TGV's stylish black gray and pink livery.
we got it too(something like) in Alstom Treno ad alta frequenza in Italia in the past too! it was into my Verona-Venezia! now i cannot find the picture anymore and it is no more operative i guess(Pop and Rock) but that regionale had the sits in many colours exactly as SNCF(Corradian Alstom before Italia had switch everything into our Ansaldo rebranded Hitachi Italia)
the sits were like this picture in link but whole in many pastel colors! www.radioclub103.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/829-2016-TAF-INTERNO.jpg
Always good to see you "working from home" in France. Seeing your videos jump from North America to Europe to South America and back again makes me wonder how your release schedule lines up with your recording schedule. Your flying time seems to be just as long as your train travel time.
this TGV looks great. I like the colors and the big seats. Super design
Beautiful views. Watched most of your routes and like that you do most of your videos do the talking 👍. hoping to travel in Europe one day. 😊
The view flying over the alps is so much more amazing, you see everything and the snow covered alps 😎
I prefer the Frecciarossa by far when travelling by train.
I have done this route in 2018 all the way from Paris to Milan (and then onwards to Rome). It was fantastic. I mean, the landscape… Departure was around just after 6 am so I was mainly holding on to my coffee cup. But by the time I had woken up we were already approaching the Savoye region.
My main criticism of the TGV interior design is that it is rather dark. The lights are slightly dimmed and the upholstery is dark grey, and somehow even compared to an ICE train it is a little moody… But that is a matter of taste I guess.
Nice video🇮🇹
Highest point of the line, in Frejus tunnel, is not at 1,123 m, but at 1,295 m, a little bit higher than Bardonecchia station, the third highest station in Italy. TGVs don't use the high speed line between Turin and Milan because of the lack of ERTMS devices, so they can't use a line without signals and they arrive at Milano Porta Garibaldi maybe because the slots are cheaper than Milano Centrale, but more probably because Milano Centrale is at full capacity and doesn't have enough free slots for other trains. Milano Porta Garibaldi is the second Milan's station, not a secondary station!
4503! I took a photo in front of it when it still had the grey-blue livery when I was 8 on a trip to Milan, still have it on my desk... glad to see it's still going strong despite all the years it has
Los alpes franceses e italianos siempre muy hermosos de las viviendas y edificios 😍😍❤❤
Beautiful countryside!
Nice video 📹
Thanks for the ride folk !!! 🇺🇾
Amazing train ride! Great review and awesome landscapes! Good work! MEGA Thumbs Up & Subscribe
All the best from Romania
Andrew
Hello from Italy and welcome to Milano Centrale! 🇮🇹
Y’a quand même une ambiance dans le TGV français qu’on a du mal à retrouver dans un autre train …🤩
Belle vidéo!
Frecciarossa Is better
per fortuna!
c'est bien ça le problème....siège petit, moquette sale, mauvaise odeur...so so FRENCH
I love travel by train, I wish that the USA had as many options as does Europe. If you were to publish a book on your experiences with recommendations, I would be among the first to purchase it.
Thank you for a great video. I have travelled several times with SNCF TGV from Paris to Turin, 1st Class, and found it superb, but that was before Covid. The TGV Resau units are are wonderful for their age, and have great style. I find the Frecciarossa trains far too flash, and whilst they may have more seating options, give me SNCF 1st Class every time !
Nice video. It nice to see the train going faster than cars on the highway, unlike Amtrak where the cars beat the train.
True.
Not heading from VA to DC! A favorite of mine is watching cars sit on 95N as one races on Amtrak toward Alexandria.
Hermoso vídeo!
Te recomiendo visitar la estación de Canfranc...en los Pirineos de Aragón...España. 😉
Looking forward to going frecciarosa from Paris to Milan in September 😍😍
Done this trip n the pouring rain and t's still gorgeous. Good to know taking Frecciaarossa is the better option when I am back to working between these cities! I still love to hear the 3 tones of the French train, though :)
Really don't get why SNCF doesn't equip the trains running on this route with ETCS since it would allow it to run on the high speed line between Milan and Turin and have a better chance to compete with Trenitalia.
I suppose cost could be the reason why but I still think that equipping these trains with ETCS would still be worth it
I'd imagine the TGV Réseau currently in use on this line is just way too old at this point and probably about to be replaced in the not to distant future. It would be far more reasonable to just get some of those 2N2s or Avelias Italy certified. They already have ETCS.
Its not that the sncf doesn't want to add etcs to the tgv, it's because the Italian network operator won't even consider the french tgv. So why bother? Another reason why there isn't etcs on most of the french railways is because it's an absolut pain. The readers cost 10s of thousands and only work on the brand that sold them, Alstom will only read alstom. Tempory speed limits have to be sent away to alstom to be programmed and this can take a week, so emergency speed limits start really low (30 when it could be an 80 etc...) and there are 5 times as many 'eurobalise to add to a line that with the classic kvb. The etcs is a good idea but it has been dumbfounded by on company and is extremely onerous for the maintainer.
@@matthewmaxwell-burton4549 ECTS works with all manufacturers of equipment that uses ECTS. It's a standard. That is one of the benefits of ECTS.
@@bubba842 I use a scanner made by Alstom and you can literally not use it to scan any other eurobalise made by others. The one I had in Fontoy is useless with the eurobalise coming out of Belgium near Lille. I know it should be interoperable, but Alstom have programed it not to be. The Siemens scanner however works fine
@@matthewmaxwell-burton4549 They allowed this international service to operate and they have also allowed the private company NTV ( which used to be partially owned by SNCF and operates the Alstom AGV and the EVO Pendolino also made by Alstom) to operate services on the high speed network. What makes you think that they wouldn't even consider the TGV?
I find it very amusing how there are stickers on the train advertising the route Milan-Paris. And that Lyon is on the sticker. To then not make a stop there😂
Travelled last month from Paris to Milan
Cool
Thanks for this, very informative with a view to die for.
Would you know if the sleeper train which was discontinued some time ago will recommence?
I'm a little disappointed that no meal service is offered on this train. However the scenery is fantastic!! You don't get this view at 35000 feet.
Thanks Thibault for posting this journey.😀😀♥️♥️💚💚
Bom dia simply lindo trem 🚆 🚆 🚆 🚆 boa viagem ai Paris e de milan
And perhaps more like Through the Alps tunnels..Nice
VERY VERY NICE LOVE TRAIN THANK YOU BYE
Beautiful and well-documented!
Can you tell us what cameras you use? What video editor??
Keep it up!
Thanks!!
🔥🔥
The cafe car’s windows look like something from Star Trek. 😄
Super cool le pantalon slim.
I love Modane landscape. I would like to work and sleep in that train station for the rest of my life.
Only FRECCIAROSSA by Trenitalia.
LOVE FROM COIMBATORE SOUTH INDIA
Gorgeous scenery!
Peanut M&M's??? I'm beginning to think you are becoming 'Amercanized', Thibault... LOL!!!
Seriously, thanks for another great video!
Is there still a paris to Milan service then. I’ve been looking but thought it ceased on 2021.
Nice!! I am your fan 😊🇯🇵
Mondane figures in Arnold Bennett's novel 'Accident', about an overnight express sleeper train that derails near Mondane.
"Le Train Bleu" is the best train sation restaurant in the world, in Gare de Lyon
Are you planning to take a trip of Indian railway any time soon?
Really keen to know & excited to watch your train/metro expedition vlogs in India.
🇮🇳🇫🇷🚃🚋🚊
Great trip. I'm curious, why you can't access SNCF Lounge, even though you are First Class Ticket holder?
Frecciarossa Is the new King
👍👍
I have travelled on both Frecciarossa and TGV services albeit on different routes, and i must say that Frecciarossa is definitely the best out of the two. Don't forget that the TGV Inoui Milan-Paris is not allowed to travel on the high speed route between Milan and Turin, and that adds about an hour on the journey
I really love the Lacroix Design TGVs since they came with the TGV Est to south Germany. They have Style !
Agree, train is better than air. And yes covering train windows with commercial/EU marketing material is not on!
What side of the train shoudbi seat to see a better view of the French alps
My dream Paris to Milan train travel
I don' t see your Ouigo to Montpellier you mentioned in your trip report from Lille to CDG.
I hate those footrests the cut into your shins and stop you from being able to stretch out
e la stazione di torino porta susa,? perche non e' stata ripresa ?...
Does those train stations have help for people's who are disabled with wheelchairs or electric wheelchairs and people's who walk with a cane ? Or a visitor's first time in the train stations 🚉 tourism. Paris France is on my bucket list of trips l would like to visit. I see a ad on TV about this train called the Rockies Mountains l might have my spelling wrong about the train 🚆. God bless u always and enjoy your self. Baltimore MD 🙏
When in Europe, take the train. Just take it!
Will you make a video of the new SNCF Paris to Berlin hi- speed train that will only take 7 hrs??? They said December 2023 it will be ready
Cozy train ride
nice video as always ,a shame sncf don't know how to look after their first class traveller's ,ok it was special with covid but even before what was it like ?
I will travel the same route on 28.5.22 TGV 9251, the train tooks one hour longer than regular scheduled and the first stop is Modane after 5 hours😯 Are their any constructions next weekend on this route. It is my first train ride with a TGV Reseau. Duplex is well known an tested. I booked a single seat First Class for 62 Euro included reduction Avantage Adult Card. The Frecciosa depart in the afternoon is a little bit too late for me with an arrival late 10 PM in Milano. But I will test the Trenitalia Train another time. I like the TGV🚅 in France, the comfort in first class is better than the ICE Trains in Germany. Thank you for your 🚄 reports on TH-cam, very interesting and helpful. Best regards. Martin from Germany.
Was the direct train from Paris to Milan cancelled? I can't find any tickets on any website, they all appear with one or more stops. I tried different days and no direct train service appears.
Yeah no train runs between France and Italy because at the end of last summer, there was an landslide who touched the trains track, and it will take about a year to repair the tracks unfortunately
Please do the next video where you go Belgrade-novi sad high speed rail
I felt that it was a vehicle that was running faster than the Japanese Shinkansen and could be moved more comfortably.
What different between tgv and Frecciarossa
Thanks you for your great video. I will have the same trip with you but with Freciarossa in Mid of June .
Just 1 question. Before you got on the train or on the train. There was the officer asked you to present Vaccines certificate or any documents?
In Italy the only requirement is so far the FFP2 mask for all the trip, COVID certificates are no longer required; in France I don't know.
In France vaccines certificates are no longer required either
@@roccogulli1411 thanks you so much.
@@Sonia_LM Thanks you so much.
sncf bestest
Where do you buy your ticket for this journey as looking on the rail Europe app to book 2-3 months in advance the price is around £250-£280 second class, but you paid around 80 euros first class?
Euro ..no £ of shit
@@valerianocuomo996 what kind of answer is that, I asked a genuine question as someone who would be looking to do this route starting from the Uk, so of course I would be purchasing the tickets in sterling, if you didn’t know the answer to my question why reply with that silly remark that doesn’t even make sense
Tu utilise quel logiciel pour faire l'animation avec le train et la carte à 1:00 ? Mercii
How to booking Frecciarossa?
Great video, I like the SNCF as a train but the Frecciarossa is hard to say not to. Why can't the TGV use the high speed lines in italy?
Huh, when I took the TGV to Milan in 2008 I'm pretty sure we did go to Milano Centrale.
Yep they got kicked out from Milano Centrale around 2010. In 2008 the TGV Milan-Paris was still a Trenitalia-SNCF collab if I'm not wrong.
🚶✌️👍
✋ Extra, good job 👌
Wow nice view, I like to see new places ✌
Great movie 👍 Bravo 👋
And I have a new movie from a walk around the city 😊
Regards, DJ Janusz from Warsaw Poland ✌ 🇵🇱✋
Nice scenery🤩🤩🤩 Got to admit that 2nd class looked more modern, albeit not that comfy, than 1st. Why is TGV not allowed on HSL in Italy? Signalling? Shame about the closed cafeteria. Keep up the good job!
These TGV trains cannot run on the Italian high-speed network because they are not compatible with the new European ERTMS singalling system. Back when they entered service the HSL between Turin and Milan was only partially opened, therefore SNCF didn't install ERTMS but only the Italian SCMT system for conventional lines. Now it would be too costly to add ERTMS, and there might be other issues too, for example a lack of physical space onboard as they already have three systems, i.e. the Italian SCMT, its French equivalent KVB, and the French system for high-speed lines TVM. In other words, they would have to pay not only to install the new ERTMS system but also to install a newer and less bulky version of the other three systems too... Not worth it on trainsets that are already 20-25 years old.
@@gerric.5824 thnx so much for the info. I suspected it had sonething to do with signaling👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@matthewmaxwell-burton4549 This in absolutely not true, you are spreading misinformation.
There are examples like NTV that can go on high speed network which used to be partially owned by SNCF.
If what you say is true, this will go against the free market rule between italy and france.
France will retaliate by preventing italian company to use french line.
The only difference between the low and high speed line in italy is the basic requirement that every one can have and the price to run on them (witch is the same independently of the country of the company)
RISPONDI
@@matthewmaxwell-burton4549This is the text from your comment :"For political reasons the Italian operator won't even consider the french train anymore. So why would the sncf add the etcs"
in the phrase "So why would the sncf add the etcs" you imply that SNCF can install ETCS system
so why in the message I am responding to, you write:
"Alston didn't install it because of an agreement between Trentallia and Alstom."
Its a CONTRADDICTION
What you are writing is based on nothing,
if a person like you know the agreement between trenitalia and alstom I imagine there is at least a journal article about it (or did trenitalia corrupt thousands of journalist ) or a web news (or did trenitalia hacked the internet to hide it )
@@matthewmaxwell-burton4549 Its very simple, point me at some article because as far as I know this is only your word since I can't find anything about what you write,
(also you REMOVED your comments.)
J'ai une question, pourquoi vous avais pas filmé le magnifique lac du Bourget avant de rentrer à Chambéry? Car les TGV qui s'arrête à Mâcon, sont toujours obligé de passer par le lac
What different between trainitalia and TGV