What's like to cross the Alps by train in 2024 - Paris to Milan with TGV Inoui
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Buon Giorno!
Since August of 2023, a landslide on the French side blocked the line for TGV Inoui and Frecciarossa linking Paris and Milan... A true shame for sure but at least TGV Inoui, the high speed brand of SNCF has decided to relaunch one round trip a day using a bus service to bypass the landslide.
Let's see if this is worth the extra 1h19 of travel time!
Enjoy, and don't forget to like/leave a comment to help the channel :-)
- TRIP INFORMATION -
Date: JUNE 2024
Railway company: TGV Inoui Italia
Route : Paris Gare de Lyon to Milano Porta Garibaldi
Time : 8h22
Price : 69€ with a Carte Avantage
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00:00 : Intro
00:37 : The Paris-Milan situation
01:46 : The temporary service
03:40 : Boarding
03:57 : Seat check
05:01 : Route overview
05:34 : Departure from Gare de Lyon
06:28 : High-speed
07:03 : Caffè Centrale
08:29 : East to the Alps
09:42 : Chambéry
11:10 : Arrival in Saint-Jean de Maurienne
12:03 : Bus service
14:14 : Oulx
14:49 : Why SNCF is doing that ?
16:10 : Mid roll ads
17:01: Italian TGV
18:00 : Walkthrough
19:46 : Toilets time
20:26 : Arrival in Milan / conclusion
20:45 : Outro
Even in this reduced form, this service would have been a game changer for Hannibal
Do elephants fit in the loading gauge of this line? 🤔
On the other hand, Roman road still exists. Quite something to see.
Thank you for this report ! The line Oulx-Modane reopened one week ago but only until August, 25th. So now the bus trip is only St-Jean-de-Maurienne to Modane… but the duration is the same :(
For the maintenance it's like Trenitalia : trains are going from Paris to Milano without passengers via Nice and Ventimiglia ! For Trenitalia it's a full trip without passengers, for SNCF sometimes the train is coupled with a commercial TGV INOUI to Nice.
About the refurbishment of TGV Réseau, maybe it will be the same (as-light) as TGV Atlantique (grey 2nd class, leather like in 1st class) but same seats…
Thank you sooo much for this video. I am travelling with my kids from London to Paris, then Paris to Milan and I booked the TGV without realising that we would have to take a bus connection. Once I realised I became really anxious at the idea of it all so your video really put my mind at ease and I am feeling a lot more confident about the journey. My son is a train enthusiast and he found your video on youtube last night. Thanks again!! 🥰
Your video came at just the right time. In two weeks, I'm taking the train from Milan to Paris, and I was a bit nervous because I wasn't sure how the transfer to the buses would work. Now I have an idea and don't need to worry about the details. Thank you for this video!
If you want to avoid the bus, you can try Milan-Zurich-Paris. Takes a bit longer, but no bus.
@@IndianGeek5589 I've heard about that option too. But I had already booked the ticket and didn't want to change it. 😅
Such an informative video
Thanks for making thia video Thibault. In fact I found this rail-bus-rail trip more interesting than a regular rail report !
Love the content, many happy skiing memories in the Oulx area (Sauze and Sestrieres) used to take a flight from the U.K. and onwards to Oulx from Lyon. Nice job my friend
So strange to see you on a-bus, but this is a beautiful trip nonetheless. I always look forward to your new releases. Safe travels.
Always enjoyable!
Thanks for another great vidéo thoses corail coaches are very often used on the Annecy -chambery- grenoble valence line 😂
Thank you the journey!
I heard that SNCF has services between Milan and Nice this summer, so maybe they send to maintenance the "stuck" TGV from Ventimiglia.
I'm really enjoying your train travel videos and all of the interesting
things about the railways thank you.💞🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃💞
I'm doing Paris-Torino soon - so very helpful tips (especially re transfer times and catering)!
Seeing comments about it being "rediculous to take so long to sort out a line between two major cities" and how "innovative" a bus replacement service is, it's just wonderful. Try catching a train between Sheffield and Manchester (two of the biggest cities in the UK) and marvel at just how terrible Britain's trains are now!
Great video Thibault....personally if my train ride includes a bus, I'm " out" I would not take the journey.
That rules out Zermatt for you for a bit, then. The line between Visp and Täsch is bus replacement while they repair from flooding
Interesting ride. I'm not a fan of buses but the Alpine scenery makes it okay. Thanks Thibault💚👌🥰👍
Very intresting video!
Thank you for this excellent review. I have always enjoyed rides on every type of TGV, and despite the age of the TGV Resau, it still looks very modern and rides superbly, due to the articulation. Shame the Frejus tunnel is closed for so long, and let’s hope the work is completed by the November date stated by SNCF !
12:47 I thought my internet died for a second! 😅
I work at Chambéry for the technicentre of SNCF, I'm a train driver there. Great seeing my workplace in a TH-cam video. I work with the Corail train sets and much more. Hope you had a great trip!
Hi Simply railway, I love your videos and I'm subscribed to your quality channel
bot
What are you saying? I do not understand @@cwg73160
Way better organized bustitution than the one Amtrak has going on for the Texas Eagle. I hear horror stories about that one. Keep up the good work.
Amizing video train 😍🖐️🍺
Has the SNCF ever thought of equipping the TGVs used between Paris and Lausanne to the FS system, in order to avoid problems in cases like this?
The problem is the electrification probably. The Swiss use 15kV AC and the Italians use 3kV DC, so it would be a quad voltage one. Those do exist, but you also need different pantographs and a TGV only has place for 2 on a power car. The Swiss definitely require a narrower one, so it's bit of a complex issue.
Makes the journey longer but at least you can get to Milan. A great compromise!
We hope that Freccia Rossa service will be available again soon.🍒🍒🍒
As always… great video!
Do you if/when you might offer your night train book in English?
Not yet :(
That's a nice price for the ticket, too bad you weren't going to Nice, would have been the perfect meme :P
Interesting nontheless, as you made a pretty unique trip with his one, when the lien gets reopened this will just be a memory.
Bad news for rail travelers .... but good news for the bar in Oulx! 😉
J'ai plusieurs fois croisé la rame à Ventimiglia, donc j'imagine que la maintenance se fait aux alentours de Nice
Hi Thibault comprehensive report as usual, countries like Japan can deal with these sort of problems more efficiently,
Fun tidbit, the "stuck" TGVs are sent empty from Milan to France via Ventimiglia, Nice and the Ligne Méditerranée in order to get back round to the French side of the route and to get maintenance done. Which seems like a sad waste that they don't allow folks to buy seats on this former Thello route
I thought they were considering running a Nice to Milan service in part for this reason, I wonder what might happen with that
@@seatsea0 considered but didn't end up following through with it. Sadly plenty of local train spotters here on the Riviera have spotted these sets passing through the region, without stopping and completely empty
I hope that the fact that there’s a bus section in the middle of the trip is well advertised during the purchasing process, otherwise some people are going to have an unpleasant surprise.
Also very nice to see a TGV with a clean exterior (for once!)
2:32 pour effectuer la maintenance des rames ils les font passer en Vide Voyageurs (W) via Vintimille chaque semaine, de quoi voir de belles rames sur la côte d'azur et la riviera italienne !
Hello.
I enjoy watching your vlogs on TH-cam.
Can you guide me if we want to travel from UK to Türkiye by train also stoping in countries come in between, what route will be the beast and how to avail cheapest pass?
I will be highly thankful.
I travelled Milan - Chambery in 2015, 1st class, the toilets smelt awful, knew where they were situated before getting there. I was back it Italy in May this year, I knew about the landslide and that the service was not running but not about this alternative option, might have used it instead of flying to Milan Linate. On my return (after cruise from Genoa) I travelled via Turin, and saw this train pass through the station - did look carefully just in case I saw myself on the platform but unfortunately not. The new high speed line looks promising for the future.
Thanks for another great video. Why is it that any trains I see beyond the English Channel ,look modern, even though they may be old, look in good condition, leave on time and seem presentable inside. Almost romantic ! This side of the channel we get Hitachi 800 series units which no one else in the world wanted, with poor interiors and ironing board seats and which suffered metal fatigue after only a few years in service plus some Alstom iffy emus. Don't get me started on rail replacement bus services- SNCF seem to have got this down to a fine art. Did you say four coaches ? In the UK you would be lucky to get one, no room for anything other than a carry on suitcase, driven by a driver who didn't want to be there especially as he does not know the route !
Great trip. Just realized that landslide hit the railway too, I think it just hit the road only. The service is running because of Train Driving License? Interesting.
In Bardonecchia the TGV doesn't stop at the moment but the frecciarossa stops (when service will resume)
It will be interesting to see how both companies handle it when the Summer Olympics start up in Paris. Maybe Italy will be a bit more proactive in handling customers of this service?
I think people will just fly, too many hassles (2 trains and 1 bus) for too much time. If the Lyon-Turin had already been in place, they wouldn't have found themselves in this situation and Milan and Paris would be connected in a bit more than 4 hours. Such a shame
as expected they blocked the views for making sure that peoples will be not able to see the main issue, as i see the work for making that line safe again is colossal and as explained😧😧
This is the mother of all BUStitutions!
Reading a lot of specialized forums, the thought that the French railways leaved this situation unsolved on purpose in order to downsize the aggressive competition from Trenitalia (Frecciarossa) on the "fast" Milan-Paris route through the Alps is becoming increasingly widespread. And the thought is objectively legitimate, because it shouldn't take that long to reopen the line, and furthermore the Frecciarossa service had become much more popular on this route than the TGV-Inoui service (more modern trains and faster travel times because Frecciarossa trains run on the high speed line between Milan and Turin, while TGV trains don't)
e' quello che penso anch'io
Probabile, dopo 1 anno ancora non ci sono informazioni certe su una data di riapertura
I may think they're waiting for the new TGV-M trainsets that can go to Italy, for reopening the line (modern trainsets that can compete with ETR 400 Frecciarossa, compared to the old TGV sets).
But it could mean at least 2026...
And that's not calculating all the impact of the Turin-Lyon railway. Would that be considered a threat by SNCF?
@@gab_v250 this is possible, and reveals the unfair play of SNCF
Conspiracy theory. The entity responsible for the infrastructure is different and totally separated from the one for the commercial journeys.
The infrastructure organisation has given unfair discounts on rights paid by Trenitalia for the HSL from Paris to Lyon. Those discounts were given under the pressure of politicians and the European Union. TGV Inoui has to pay 30% more than Trenitalia. The competition is not fair. Even with those discounts Trenitalia loses money in France whereas Inoui is able to win, thanks to its organisation, and its double deck TGV. The difference will be even more important with the TGV M.
What makes your TGV Réseau unique is that the AC 1.45m Strip of Carbon is wired for Italian 3kv DC wired what you do see on the Italian train using its copper pantograph to take power from LGV Rhône-Alpes & Sud est. Had they built the base tunnel your train would be using it.
13:03 this was done by using SNCF Fret BB36300 Sggmrss SNCF Réseau BB22200 with a crane.
Italo's AGV were built by Alstom and maintained by them in Italy so Im pretty sure the TGV that was stuck may been maintained at a AGV depot and the workers who maintained the TGV in France may got drafted in from other TGV depot in france.
To those of us in the UK this adds a new meaning to the phrase "Rail replacement bus service"
The "Nice View eh!" at 12:49 is located at 45.199566,6.6012272 Mr Google shows the mountain about the same in 2021 street view.
Is there a reason the train stops at St Jean Maurienne instead of Modane that is right at entrance of tunnel? (the tracks to Modane remain at river level and don't rise to the broken tunnel). Also, I find it odd that a tunnel would be broken by a rock slide. I can understand its entrance blocked by it, but shouldn't the tunnel itself be OK ? It seems to be taking a very long time to fix!
BTW, I had heard if a mega project for LGV to Turin/Milano that had gotten of start/stop dur to funding. Would this replace this route via Fréjus?
Any news on when the line will be fully operating?
hey simply railway, could you try to play train sim world games?
Also amazing video as always
Is Schengen breaking down? I wasn't once asked for ID traveling by train and car between France, Belgium, Germany, and Italy in 2017.
utterly terrible that the line still has not been reopened yet
The tray on the TGV from Paris was rattling. Was the ride shaky or smooth as silk? (You know I always gotta ask about ride quality because I love a super fast and smooth ride that I can only find outside the USA.)
4501 is a lucky train number.
2:29 I’m not really sure if this is the case, but I have made two hipotesis:
1 they are serviced in Savigliano, the old Fiat Ferroviaria train factory, because sometimes you can see the TGV parked in Torino Porta Nuova station
2 they are brought back to France via Milano-Pavia-Genova-Savona-Ventimiglia-Nice, because I saw it once passing through Pavia. Not only that, but I saw as well the French Frecciarossa1000 passing through Pavia, multiple times, probably because they come back to Italy to get maintenance and then get back to Lyon.
Yes I know these are a “long shot theories”, but at least there is some logic to this😂
(Edited after 30 mins: the reason I said in Savigliano specifically is because the old train factory was bought out by Alstom, so that's why they might service them there)
I thought the Sud Est TGV trains were taken out of service?
Are those Corail coaches in Chambéry still in operation or are they just being kept there until they see a final destination?
They should be put back in service hopefully!
I preferred the Frecccia service , the new , well not so new now seats in the TGV are uncomfortable compared to the originals .
Boa viagem ai simplys de trem 2 andares
what watch you have?
Hey ? At 13:54 , in Bardonecchia, isn't that a french TGV, as you say "stored in Bardonnecchia". Is it the the very same train inwhich you''l be boarding e few moment later ?
Yes indeed :)
So, there was the Gotthard Base Tunnel derailment and this landslide. Not the best train news of 2023
Why is there a border "process" between Schengen countries?
How come the cafe isn't open in Italy?
Now the interesting question also off-course is: were sufficient 'Italian' TGV's already in Italy during the time of the landslide. Or did they have to bring them in? And if so, what route did they take ;-)
Question: Why can they not simply route the trains via Switzerland? Is there some technical reason? Track capacity? If the latter, could they couple two trains together?
These TGVs travel empty for maintenance between Milan and France and vice versa via Genoa Sestri Ponente airport - Ventimiglia (Vintimille).
I don't know if the TGVs used in Italy are normally replaced by other TGVs when they have to return from France
Why TGV Train not service to Milano Centrale bro
I took this train in early 2016 both ways and there were the same passport controls. Schengen Area? What Schengen Area? Appalling.
Bro do paris-amsterdam
Very nice vlog
But our Vande Bharat Expresshas far more space and comfortable seats. Can reach a top speed of 180 km/h but limited to 160 and 130 due to track conditions. Upcoming Mumbai Ahmedabad Bullet train will be able to run at 250 km/h.
Wow that's really amazing. Mind-blowing even.
Why the passport check there? It is a Schengen area after all? What a paranoia 🙄
Illegal migration is a possibility these days lmao
Because Italy suspended Schengen treaty for the G7 summit in Puglia that week, now is back as usual.
France instead suspended it after the terrors attacks in 2015 and never went back
@@Wikfert Last year I went to Paris from Italy and no passport check in any direction...
Wait, he’s handsome too!? 😂
Is this your first time seeing him? He has showed his face multiple times now on this youtube channel.
Does anyone know why the TGV can't run on the hsr italian lines? Is it technical or political?
It's a technical issue. TGV units 4501-4506 are pretty old and lack the ETCS subsystem. Years ago SNCF determined that it was not feasible or too expensive to upgrade them. Back then they didn't have any competition and thus decided that they would wait to replace their aging Italian units until later. When Trenitalia started competing on the same route they probably didn't think it was "dangerous" enough to warrant an upgrade and then it was really too late, thus they're stuck with those older units until they will be able to deploy the new TGV-M trainsets...
@@gerric.5824
What about Eurostar/Thalys changing their trains? Their Reseau power cars have ETCS and can use the 3kV system too.
In addition to ETCS they would have to be equipped with the Italian train protection system for conventional lines SCMT, in fact they are also equipped with KVB, LZB, ATB, etc. So again probably not worth the money and the time required to certify yet another system. There might even lack enough space to install additional hardware both in the cab and under the frame. Also, although both Belgian and Italian conventional lines are powered at 3 kV DC, there is some chance that they might not compatible anyway, i.e. they may require a different contact strip, with a different width, exerting a different push on the wire, and so on. In general it's not easy at all to "transplant" a locomotive from a system to another...
@@gerric.5824
But you wouldn't need ATB and LZB and the Belgian system, so that would probably free up space.
Still might be a considerable option.
why do they check passports when its schengen area?
8:59 Upcoming trip on LNER in the UK? Enjoy! :-)
Simply Bus Replacement
Why didn't you ride First Class?
Excellent video my friends awesome like 👍🏻 Greeting 👋🏻 from Argentina suscribete 😊
If I wanted to travel on a bus I wouldn’t be choosing the train , so no it’s not , rather go down and get a train from Nice for example .
Love your videos, Thibault, a nice break from work on a Friday.
I like your watch. What is the brand and model?
That train toilet will not fit the typical obese American.
They've already postponed the re-opening to 2025
Simply ridiculous that it takes more than a YEAR to repair landslide damage in a 1st world country
It's more expensive labour issues and pay that's why
@@Ishaanbiniwale they say they're working 24/7. So I don't know... 🤷♂️
It's not just cleaning it up, of course it needs to be engineered to be built back better as well.
@@ogjk still. It shouldn't take more than a year.
Try America. It will probably take 4 years with gargantuan cost overruns.
Suddenly got some weird thoughts:
If the situation cannot be solved in short term (at least 4~5 years, or until the opening of the Base Tunnel in worst case scenarios), I guess Trenitalia will start trying to get license for the ETR1000 fleet operating in Switzerland to provide Milano - Lausanne - Genève - Paris services, bypass the closed Fréjus route and using the Simplon tunnel. SNCF would also do the same thing with their TGV-R fleet, or the future TGV-M (Can they get a better paint jobs?😡) if they decided to put it onto the route, although service between Genève and Milano will be a competition to SBB…
But anyway, still hope it can be solved as soon as possible.
Edit: 13:05 sure my thought is impossible 😅
In the video it's mentioned that the works at Fréjus are expected to be completed by November. So the service can resume in a few months.
Even if this were the case, which it isn't, this would certainly not happen because the swiss railway system is closed and there is a state monopoly on train services. No one is allowed to freely provide passanger rail services other than the operators being issued a licence for a certain line by the government and only swiss companies mostly or completely state owned have gotten even close to this. And I have to say I think this is more than a good thing for the system as a whole. The neoliberal fairytale with so called competition for essential services never worked and the EU is just to filled with lobby members to ever admit that.
@@domin727
Also there are technical issues regarding the pantographs. Both the Swiss and Italian network require special ones and a TGV only has place for two. (per powercar)
Something about Train drivers losing their ability to drive, I find hard to believe, I mean Aren't they Trained Professional and aren't they pro when it comes to Driving/Operating a train; Also can't they(SNCF) just use Simulators in order to maintain a certain level of competency??
Autobus à Moyenne Vitesse?
The owner of that bar is saving up for a property on Lake Como. 🙂
Is all this passport checking business because of illegal immigration? Or is it because of the current Italian government?
I still don't quite understand why Trenitalia doesn't care about the certification of its drivers. Won't they lose those certifications if they don't drive in France? Or is there a different arrangement?
First 6 minutes of the video - 4 ad blocks. This is insane and unpleasant to watch
Print is too small, defeats the reason for a video with commentary. I quit
copy cat. thats all i get.