Last time's quiz could have included Nelson. When the station serving Great Marsden and Little Marsden opened, there was a name clash with Marsden in Yorkshire. They used the name of the nearby pub, and in time the town took the name of the railway station.
Virgin would be a worthy addition to the cross-channel route, particularly if they can include stops at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and Stratford. It must annoy Kent residents if they have to travel in the opposite direction towards London in order to catch a train that then travels through Kent.
Living within sight of France in Folkestone, I'm not going to travel 100km in the wrong direction, queue up for ridiculously long times at all overcrowded St Pancras to end up wizzing past my house over 3 hours after I left it. That's the extreme, but there are a million people in Kent and a lot in Sussex and Essex who prefer the shorter route. And it really boils my p when E* complain about the lack of space at StP when they're forcing everyone to use it. Bring on someone who is willing to listen to what passengers want.
What if 395 br class rolling stock, want more either Eurotunnel metro or Virgin230(km/h) train(s) to make little destinations towards Calais (town (stn)) or Lillie (main stn provides) (rather High Speed TGV Platform Underground Station)? All stops for local county district to make at least easier than 1 train per hour (at least 1 per no-more-than 2 hours).
@jackmartinleith yes, that is still manageable though, and it would reduce the pressure at StP. At the moment E* know they can fill their trains even if you do have to queue for an hour to get through customs. A bit of competition is long overdue
Good to see more cross channel trains but there are surely capacity issues at St Pancras as well as the depot - can't a new one not be built? Great passenger revenue figures, maybe due to strikes going away. Enjoyed this episode as always.
The thought has occurred to me that Eurostar may claim that there isn't capacity at Temple Mills for anyone else; however - they are not running their whole fleet are they? They have some of them parked up at Temple Mills... taking up siding capacity...
What incentive does Eurostar have to give access to their depot? If they deny access, they keep their monopoly, as disgusting as that sounds. Someone is going to have to end up building their own depot, as expensive as that will be, and the only one who might do that is Virgin, which would be good for the Virgin bid, I suppose
I completely forgot today is Thursday. Travelled on 756116 on the valley lines yesterday the amount of power that machine had was shocking. Stormed up the steep bank from Abercynon to Quakers Yard as it it wasn't there. Kept getting to stations early
The weekly show was as ever a riveting watch the variety of topics that kept me fully focused. The way you formulate the programme is, I think about right no really heavy stories that could risk loss of interest. More input and visibility of Steph would be nice. The programme keeps me in touch with the railway industry I once worked in. Thank you for all your efforts.😊
We need competion on this. The last time I used Eurostar, it was from London to Rome. The cost of the London - Paris leg was 3 quarters of the cost!! It was also the most distrupted part of the schedule!!
I'd ask what happened to Deutche Bundesbahns' interest in the route , but It was probably a pathfinder for the new Siemens trains . Plus they seem to have enough problems in the home .
Avanti had the misfortune of winning the ICWC franchise just a year before covid struck, and the finances of GB rail were blown out of the water, and then the unions got ever bolshier, in complete denial of the ongoing financial reality.
This, a great "sit down" show that works it all out from the "ground up"...nice numbers workup and summary with Richard's amazing financial knowledge and expertise.
Great very informative show I would love to see virgin trains back on the railway They turned the WCML around in to a very well thought out successful service
Of course it's great news about the success of the Elizabeth Line and the outlook for the Channel Tunnel services, but I wonder how hard commuters and other rail travellers in the North are partying.
They should be pleased, because the very positive results strengthens their cases for their investment. If it works in London it will work elsewhere - including the north.
Another great show, thank you team. Regarding the benefits of the Elizabeth Line, about time too that they are quantified and trumpeted! - but I'd like to see a similar feel-good (or perhaps not?) analysis of the other big schemes I've seen in my lifetime endlessly prevaricated upon and finally grudgingly given the go-ahead - HS1, the West Coast Main Line upgrade, the East Coast Main Line electrification to mention three - and "EGIP", the Edinburgh Glasgow electrification infrastructure project where finally we have electric between the two major Scottish cities and a brilliant quarter hourly service - scaled back because of Covid to rush hours, half hourly the rest of the day.
Actually, still a bit early to judge the success of EGIP perhaps. Then, what about the wider economic/regeneration effects of other projects that may be rather slow to bear fruit: Airdrie - Bathgate reopening, Borders Rail reopening, Alloa, Larkhall, Whifflet, Paisley Canal electrifications...do they actually happen? Can they be measured?
Yes, post implementation reviews are often carried out Julian, and such an analysis has been done on Elizabeth Line and Borders for sure. Not sure about the others but it's a good question and worth exploring.
I've got some friends who used to commute on cross-city north, but gave up because of lack of reliability - about once a month there was a disruption to their journey due to a bridge strike somewhere up and down the line. The effects of bridge strikes, and wider lack of reliability, have a long-term corrosive effect on public transport use.
I know, that's a fair point Chris. I think it's just that poor Nigel didn't have his teeth in that day and so stumbled over the name. But for goodness sakes, let's keep that between you and me and no-one else......😉
Happy to hear about this with regard to Virgin, competition. St. Pancras though, the departure lounge needs an upgrade because it gets way too crammed in there.
Another good show fellas. LENNON = Latest Earnings Networked Nationally OverNight, and it's a ticket sales database, rather than a model, though some ('ORCATS') assumptions are applied to allow allocation to TOCs etc.. Journeys aren't a particularly reliable indicator of recovery post-pandemic, due to the increase in split ticketing. It's better to follow trends in passenger miles and (real) revenue. With regard to the latter, everyone in rail needs to avoid any complacency about 'revenue coming back'. In the most recent quarter of ORR data (summer 2024), real revenue is still 11% below pre-covid levels, and that was without any industrial action. That means revenue is still a THIRD lower than pre-pandemic forecasts for 2024/25. Business travel revenue is still at around only 50% of 2019 levels, though it is good that firms telling workers they must come to the office more regularly is driving a significant recovery in commuting. The current over-dependence on leisure travel will be well understood at DfT/HMT and doesn't bode well for decisions about HS2 Lite etc.. The subsidy to GB Rail is still around £20k a minute, double what it was, and this subsidy is to a primarily leisure travel industry, used by people with above average earnings. No room for any complacency, and a step-change improvement in reliability is needed to win back more of the high-yield business travel, lost to Teams/Zoom. HMT and DfT will also be looking for serious improvements in productivity, but there is absolutely no sign of Labour/GBR being able to deliver on that. The unions will continue to 'call the shots', with passenger interests coming a poor second. Thankfully, with road congestion as bad as ever, and elections every five years, the medium term prospects are far rosier.
Lots of topics of interest deserving lots of comment. Eurostar - only been on it once myself but my wife used to use it to get to Le Mans for the 24 hour race. I’d take the car earlier in the week, on the Friday she’d drive to Ashford, get the Eurostar change in Paris and be in Le Mans for lunch. Coming back we’d leave at the same time, and she’d be almost home as I was getting on the ferry. Going via London means she can’t get to Le Mans for lunch, and it’s questionable as to whether she can’t get home due to crossing London in time to catch the last train home. Rail Sale. I have asked Steve White the same questions on X but I wonder how many of the tickets sold are new journeys ie sold to those who would not have travelled or would have used an alternative means of travel. Also how many sold to commuters who are time shifting their commute. It’s good that Richard has got a ticket London to Newcastle for £25 however that’s actually I suspect a loss of revenue to the railway. He probably would have been making the journey, probably would have gone by rail and therefore would have paid more. If the vast majority of sales from the railway sale are to those who would have gone by rail anyway then all it has done is lost revenue!
Brit living in France here. Whether it would really bring down fares, or not, I don't know but I would love to see some form of competition through the Channel Tunnel. As you say, Eurostar is horrendously expensive and needs a boot up the backside. It would also be nice to see a return of the direct services to other parts of France once offered by Eurostar. They were not always massively convenient due to customs issues but they were more convenient than changing in Paris or Lille.
hs1 price drop for train operations has probably had a big part for virgin commiting and there’s likely to be congestion in the future on the line but there’s defo no congestion on the line at the moment
It is important to note that any filtering, no matter how slight or whatever the cause, should be avoided when considering an official RAIB accident report. They are eventually always made available for public scrutiny. Having just read the RAIB report into the Strathspey Railway Flying Scotsman collision undiluted, I now feel it has done a very good, objective job, which is not how I felt when I only had third-party opinions to go on, no matter how expertly-formed they were.
@@qwertyTRiG Yes, I believe they are and that is the stated intention behind all their work. I presume that is so that their report may be used by others such as the police and railway authorities as the foundation on which punitive and other action can be taken, as appropriate.
Of course - sorry! I used to go through when travelling from Preston to Ormskirk to Liverpool. I think I said it was near Maghull which of course it is because it is on the same line. Doh - senior moment.
@@GreenSignals Not to worry, easy to forget when one doesn't travel by for a while! I know it fairly well these days as my son lives nearby, and yes, it is the next one along from Maghull! 🙂
Would be great to have 3, 4 or more operators challenging Eurostar (who will never surrender any depot access rights) and it would also be nice to see a simple passenger shuttle between Ebsfleet and Lille that maybe a bit more cost effective allowing us to park and ride from Ebsfleet (as opposed to having to travel at great cost via London) and change onto other European services at Lille Europe. Great episode as ever... and I didnt think you were still allowed to call it National Express Group (Richard 😂)... its "Mobico" now... 🙄
As for the RAIB interview - I get both sides. You're right that the driver should get his backside kicked for this, in the end I agree with you it's up to him to know what the loco is doing at all times. The buck stops with the driver and there is no exception to that. He can devolve some of that responsibility, often to the fireman for signal sighting for example, but he needs to make sure both he and the party charged with the responsibility are abundantly clear of their duty. That didn't happen so he has to carry the can. But I would still have expected someone on the platform during the move, to guide him so there is a clear failure there as well. However, it isn't RAIB's job to kick backsides. Their job is to learn lessons, and if there are things that can be put in place to mitigate the effect of a mistake then those things should be considered. After all, we all make mistakes and we have a lot of safety systems on the railway to catch driver mistakes. So they are right to put a focus on that action. That said, I still agree with you that they didn't seem to put enough accent on the action of the driver and the lack of platform staff during the move. Marion
Thanks Marion. My problem with the report is one of tone, which is important in communicating severity. I just felt it should have been a bit more severe in tone.
Is there a reason why additional stock has to be maintained at Temple Mills? Surely a new depot in France or Belgium is not out of the question, especially if the stock used is not 395 units.
HS1 has lots of locations that were supposed to be served by Eurostar, which are now not served by the company. It could be good to see those brought back into use. Virgin's publicity machine brought to bare could see these not served locations brought back into use and thrive.
I do think there would be good competition with both Virgin and Eurostar. However, I do also think what could the ticket prices be and how many trains per day would Virgin operate? There is a lot of changes on the UK railway currently also and, it does seem there is too much going on, especially with a new railway being constructed- HS2.
Good that Crossrail should be so emphatically successful. The degree of comparability with Crossrail 2 is encouraging enough to justify taking Crossrail 2 to its next stage. Slight question about the amount of passenger abstraction from the 2 existing lines between Liverpool Street and Paddington
I suspect the overall passenger number data hides a big disparity across the week. My own experience says that most people take their office time on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday only (lets call them TWTs) and very few on Monday and Friday. You could find that TWT travel is back up near 100% or even greater and M and F morning travel is quite low. I'm not complaining, long may it continue that the TWTs are too shortsighted to realise as I can do Monday and Friday and benefit from quieter roads and trains.
The increasing numbers of Monday -Thursday commuters is probably only part of why yield is finally playing catch up. Off-peak trains have been getting busier and busier, which means Advance Purchase fares are going up. It's all good to see, but we're going to need more capacity soon
The HGV industry clearly can't get its house in order where running into low railway bridges is concerned. So I wonder what the incentive is on that industry to do something about it? For instance, do Network Rail pursue offenders for financial compensation or not? It would be good if Green Signals could investigate this and tell us what the come-back is (if any) on offending HGV companies and their drivers. Why not install substantial steel beams over the roadway either side of any low bridge set at a height which is fractionally lower than the bridge deck, so the HGVs can harmlessly hit those instead of the bridge? I do remember that the Gloucester Warwickshire Railway were fed up of their bridge at Broadway being hit so frequently so do take action (it was even hit one day while GWR staff were on the bridge repairing it from an earlier hit). They pursue offenders for all costs resulting from the bridge strike, and they also take out private prosecutions of offenders where appropriate. Vince C.
Regarding the Clifton Bridge near Penrith, is there any indication whether both the WCML and M6 are going to be closed at the same time? If so that will cause problems even with notice. Avanti WC will probably not run anything north of Preston for the duration leaving Carlisle to Glasgow and Edinburgh unserved or using a bus replacement.
True, HS1 cannot be that busy otherwise Javelin trains wouldn’t be as short as they currently are, again connecting or regional channel tunnel services would have mitigated this but here we are.
Re Virgin and Tunnel. Not sure about capacity through the tunnel, certainly a lot less freight using it so likely room for Virgin here and on HS1. St.Pancras could be an issue, possibly not with platform occupation but certainly with passenger booking in access and egress. A pal of mine working for Eurostar in the setup phase suggested as far back as the late 80’s that they should/possibly maybe logical to have made provision for 4 tracks through the tunnel, not sure we are there yet but if logical move away from cars and flying took more sensible momentum then he could well be have been right. At the end I honestly thought that Richard was about to say ‘and it’s goodbye from him’!
It would be nice to see Eurostar services operate beyond St Pancras even if initially that comes in the form of discount tickets into Euston and Kings X. The line has always been hugely more beneficial for those on London & SE and regional Eurostar was never given the time, effort or resources to take off and I suspect that move was intentional by the DfT.
With Mr B's well known disdain about many of the railway reopening proposals, what new/reopened lines and stations do you think are justified? I did a bit of population analysis using GIS software, and the two routes that stood out were the Northumberine and the Ivanhoe line. Other than that the biggest catchment population gains were on the outskirts of existing towns (Peterborough, Leicester, Plymouth, Swindon, Gloucester etc) all of which would be good if they didn't cause problems with track capacity.
That is potentially misleading as it could lead someone to think Network Rail were involved in this incident in some way. However, as the RAIB report makes clear, Aviemore station building and the track leading to platform 3 are leased by Strathspey Railway Company ("SRC") from Network Rail. SRC is responsible for all maintenance activities on the Strathspey Railway, including the section leased from Network Rail. SRC were in charge of the movement of Flying Scotsman that day. Network Rail are not included in the either the Recommendations or Learning points in the RAIB report.
@@GreenSignals Aviemore Station is Network Rail, not SRC property. The platform is Network Rail. The track is Network Rail. Nothing I posted was in any way inaccurate.
@@andrewnelson4057 Indeed so Andrew. Nothing you said was inaccurate. However, I was also keen to ensure that folks less informed than you did not then draw the inference that Network Rail were somehow culpable. I know that was not your intention - you were simply stating those facts of asset ownership (which is different from who is responsible in various operating scenarios depending on what the lease may say) but you know what people can be like on social media! Cheers.
Clifton Bridge renewal whilst essential is another excuse for Avanti and TransPennine to abandon the railway between Preston and Carlisle, no doubt with Buses filling the gap but most passengers heading for their cars. And that is just a taster for the recently publicised rewiring and resignalling that is due for WCML north of Weaver Junction, plus a couple of other Rail / Motorway bridges in Cumbria.
In a better world I would build the proposed HS2 to HS1 link in London. Allow open access with a Brussels or Paris to Ashford, Ebbsfleet, Stratford International, the Connecting line and then up to Birmingham Curzon Street where there are going to be unused platforms. However in a sane world those platforms would already be needed for the bits of HS2 that have been cancelled! Heaven forbid a bit of joined up hand writing! I believe that there was passive provision being made in the HS2 Tunnel for the connecting line but further reading sees that this was dropped.
I assume there's more room in St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet, Ashford) overnight. Is there room for a night train leaving London in the evening and running down to Italy, Spain, Germany?
But would there be any market for those services? Important to differentiate between what we’d like, emotionally - and what’s practically / economically sensible.
Two questions. Can’t Virgin have a maintenance depot in France or Belgium? Second question. When talking about passenger revenues, has anyone looked at the grassroots elements of this. I’m talking some TOCs with little to nothing in terms of revenue protection departments. Unmanned stations etc etc.
I wish Virgin would make a comeback on the WCML, as that was the last time we had anything resembling a reliable service. Avanti should be renamed Spazzatura...
Hi chaps.l & Steff. Great show once again. The Chunnel issue is fascinating. Apparently, Le Shuttle is operating at around 50% capacity, whilst Eurostar services are also not at full capacity, since all the services from the North & those meant to stop at interim stations haven't happened. Also, there were more services pre-Covid than there are now. Using the passenger terminals at both St Pancras & Gare du Nord is not a pleasant experience these days, and Eurostar has no plans to improve things. Complacency is alive & well in the Eurostar boardroom. As for the ridership stats on our domestic lines, it still shows that 1 in every 10 passengers have not returned since Covid. If I worked at The Treasury, I'd be pushing the DoT to reduce the rail budget to reflect this "new reality." Regarding ticket prices: on Friday 12 Jan, a return trip buying Advanced tickets from Diss to Liverpool St was £54. Yesterday, (15 Jan) the exact same journey was £35. ?? ??
Are the owners of St. Pancras willing to provide more space for the border facilities? Retail seems to be their priority. And for the love of god, abolish the treasury. This country can't move forward with this obsolete network.
Seems odd that Virgin are buying trains when there seem to be endless hoops to jump through to get anywhere near a contract. Is the maintenance facility really full or is it a deterrent to any applications. Maybe if there are relevant facilities available now on the mainland, a contract could go to to a French company. Fond memories of a touring holiday around Wales, and staying in Bala. Had already been following that project...hopefully it will bring opportunity to many , and not just at the railway. Not sure if you've done anything on the GCML reunification, but that's something I'm keen to see.
Would a new Channel tunnel operator have to use Temple Mills? There's a CTRL connection to the Midland, with a connection to the Great Western and WCML and via the MML Hendon Lines and Duddinghill. It allows for a lot of connections to other lines. Surely that opens new doors to other potential depot locations?
That would require trains compatible with the UK loading gauge. The original Eurostars were, but I think the current fleet isn't. So if a new operator goes for continental loading gauge it's not an option.
Bring it on ! Pity DB or NS are not leading. There is loads of track capacity, capacity is something the UK plc is terrified of. eg all the rubbish about WCML being full! I have used Eurostar a lot but if there are any hiccups they just shut up shop and abandon the customers. The staff at Brussels seem just to disappear if there are any issues. We need someone who WANTS to run a train service. Make sure a couple of trains a day can get to Manchester as well, never mind St. P !
The rubbish about WCML being full eh? Of course, on any railway there's always LOADS of capacity, just not at the points where it is most congested.......
Even my patch of Kiwirail was congested yesterday afternoon with four passenger and four freights on a 30 kilometre stretch of single track CTC. Much of the rest of the day the track guys have free rein.
Is the M6 bridge at Penrith really 71 years old? That suggests it was built in 1954 whereas the M6 Penrith by-pass opened in November 1968, does anybody know better? Is there a worrying trend here of railway bridges built in concrete having to be replaced - the M62 bridge at Castleton was only 60 years when it was replaced with a new bridge that is designed for a 120 year life.
50,000 journey's on the Northumberland line in a month, we'll I think there's hope for the colne to Skipton line , sorry guys just had to get it in.....
Guys I live 10 minutes from Kent’s biggest white elephant Ebsfleet where Eurostar no longer stops so I’m all for an operator who looks after people and Virgin will definitely do that It’s time Eurostar pulled out of the cross channel train business and let somebody take over that will actually care about the people and stop in the two stations specifically built for them
Perhaps Virgin should pay their tax/franchise bill first? As you know HS1 was flogged off at a give away price, I believe it’s the most expensive track in Europe mile per mile? Please correct if untrue. Tory government refused any financial assistance to Eurostar during covid, SNCF i.e. French tax payers had to support British transport infrastructure, therefore I understand the company attempting to claw back costs. Not sure of the circumstances regarding Eurotunnel during covid. Of course there was the Tory minister of transport awarding a huge contract to a ferry company that didn’t have any ferries.
@ I understood that Virgin returned the franchise mid term when the contract end loaded fees went up. As far as I’m aware the core virgin company in based in a tax haven avoiding uk taxes?
Re revenue growth. Why strip out effects of Elizabeth line when assessing growth? If a business invests to grow its business it would not then monitor the actual return on its investment by stripping out the effects of said investment? Sounds like a way of downplaying the health of the railway?
because otherwise it would be impossible to compare apples with apples, like for like etc. The problem is that the Elizabeth Line has had such a major impact, including it unfiltered woudl prevent rtrends from being observed. Certainly not downplaying the health of the railway, in fact, the reverse. It's actually saying things are really good and then there is the Elizabeth Line AS WELL. However, be assured that the Elizabeth Line has been very carefully analysed in terms of returns etc. We will be covering that on a future show.
@ thanks. Yes understand that, and certainly not accusing your podcast of downplaying the health of the railway. It’s just at some point in time we reach a new norm.
How hard would it be to detect overheight vehicles before they strike a bridge and warn them more forcefully, or stop them? It's only technology and money after all. And do these errant road-users have to pay for their misdeeds? I think the band(s) Franz Ferdinand and Sparks would have something to say about this too.
Do the revenue figures take account of delay repayment claims? (I’m an “into London commuter” and claim a frankly frightening amount back most weeks on delays into Paddington with GWR. I hear similar from colleagues using other rail operator’s services into other London stations.)
The numbers from the ORR certainly show people still love their railway despite us all moaning. The news of the Elizabeth line just proves built it and they will come i think we will see the same when hs2 is built and is suspect the section to Crewe and Manchester is far from dead Makes me wonder what the Portishead line will be like when they get it bloody built that's dragged on too long now
@@GreenSignals u tried travelling at peak hours Liv Street to Stratford (I would go upstairs and use Greater Anglia but the stairs/ lift route to the mainline station is a faff from Moorgate in the rain.
Barefaced cheek epitomises Virgin, having lost the shambolic( am being excessively kind) East Coast mainline franchise, he/they had the brass necked nerve to try for compensation. 😳 It all went ominously quiet, did he/they get any?
There are no British train manufacturers the only sites in Britain are Derby ( Canadian). Newton Aycliffe (Japs) or my old Company Melksham (German). Incidentally Branson made sure we got the Pendolino brake overhaul and not the Original builders in Czech Republic as we are the old Westinghouse brakes based in UK!
For Christ's sake, simple English grammar. Are Virgin Trains, not Is Virgin Trains. Is equals singular... Are equals more than one thus, Are Virgin Trains Making A Comeback?
Barefaced cheek epitomises Virgin, having lost the shambolic( am being excessively kind) East Coast mainline franchise, he/they had the brass necked nerve to try for compensation. 😳 It all went ominously quiet, did he/they get any?
Last time's quiz could have included Nelson. When the station serving Great Marsden and Little Marsden opened, there was a name clash with Marsden in Yorkshire. They used the name of the nearby pub, and in time the town took the name of the railway station.
Excellent local knowledge!
Virgin would be a worthy addition to the cross-channel route, particularly if they can include stops at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and Stratford. It must annoy Kent residents if they have to travel in the opposite direction towards London in order to catch a train that then travels through Kent.
It does feel as if Ashford and Ebbsfleet in particular are a lost opportunity.
Living within sight of France in Folkestone, I'm not going to travel 100km in the wrong direction, queue up for ridiculously long times at all overcrowded St Pancras to end up wizzing past my house over 3 hours after I left it. That's the extreme, but there are a million people in Kent and a lot in Sussex and Essex who prefer the shorter route. And it really boils my p when E* complain about the lack of space at StP when they're forcing everyone to use it. Bring on someone who is willing to listen to what passengers want.
What if 395 br class rolling stock, want more either Eurotunnel metro or Virgin230(km/h) train(s) to make little destinations towards Calais (town (stn)) or Lillie (main stn provides) (rather High Speed TGV Platform Underground Station)? All stops for local county district to make at least easier than 1 train per hour (at least 1 per no-more-than 2 hours).
One of the reasons is the need for customs and border control at these stations.
@jackmartinleith yes, that is still manageable though, and it would reduce the pressure at StP. At the moment E* know they can fill their trains even if you do have to queue for an hour to get through customs. A bit of competition is long overdue
Good to see more cross channel trains but there are surely capacity issues at St Pancras as well as the depot - can't a new one not be built?
Great passenger revenue figures, maybe due to strikes going away.
Enjoyed this episode as always.
The thought has occurred to me that Eurostar may claim that there isn't capacity at Temple Mills for anyone else; however - they are not running their whole fleet are they? They have some of them parked up at Temple Mills... taking up siding capacity...
What incentive does Eurostar have to give access to their depot? If they deny access, they keep their monopoly, as disgusting as that sounds.
Someone is going to have to end up building their own depot, as expensive as that will be, and the only one who might do that is Virgin, which would be good for the Virgin bid, I suppose
Thanks
Thank you Chris. That's immensely generous and much appreciated as ever.
I completely forgot today is Thursday.
Travelled on 756116 on the valley lines yesterday the amount of power that machine had was shocking. Stormed up the steep bank from Abercynon to Quakers Yard as it it wasn't there. Kept getting to stations early
The weekly show was as ever a riveting watch the variety of topics that kept me fully focused. The way you formulate the programme is, I think about right no really heavy stories that could risk loss of interest. More input and visibility of Steph would be nice. The programme keeps me in touch with the railway industry I once worked in. Thank you for all your efforts.😊
Thank you Keith. We try to keep things balanced and not too heavy!
We need competion on this. The last time I used Eurostar, it was from London to Rome. The cost of the London - Paris leg was 3 quarters of the cost!! It was also the most distrupted part of the schedule!!
Too right
I'd ask what happened to Deutche Bundesbahns' interest in the route , but It was probably a pathfinder for the new Siemens trains . Plus they seem to have enough problems in the home .
Love the way Nigel went from Strathspey to Talleddig to Elithabeth in the intro, pritheleth!!!😂😂
Couldn't pothibly comment.....😬
@@GreenSignals Oh, do Thod off the pair of you!
I wish Virgin would hold the WCML franchise again, as the ticket prices and service since Avanti took over is obscene!
I'm sure this is more to do with national ticket restructuring and less to do with avanti per-se
👿
Avanti had the misfortune of winning the ICWC franchise just a year before covid struck, and the finances of GB rail were blown out of the water, and then the unions got ever bolshier, in complete denial of the ongoing financial reality.
Nice video.........and a name check at the end, I feel honoured!
Cheers!
Lots of meaty content in this edition. I enjoyed Richard's number crunching.
Wow. A couple of great teasers there......i think the £5m Bala project sounds pretty good value
Wait till you see the video - it's a cracker!
@@GreenSignals He's right!
This, a great "sit down" show that works it all out from the "ground up"...nice numbers workup and summary with Richard's amazing financial knowledge and expertise.
Great very informative show
I would love to see virgin trains back on the railway
They turned the WCML around in to a very well thought out successful service
They did a very good job indeed, yes.
Thanks!
Thanks Alan. that's really appreciated.
Thanks for all your hard work 😊
Of course it's great news about the success of the Elizabeth Line and the outlook for the Channel Tunnel services, but I wonder how hard commuters and other rail travellers in the North are partying.
They should be pleased, because the very positive results strengthens their cases for their investment. If it works in London it will work elsewhere - including the north.
Old Roan is on the Ormskirk line, not Southport. Close but no cigar! Great episode, as always!
Another great show, thank you team. Regarding the benefits of the Elizabeth Line, about time too that they are quantified and trumpeted! - but I'd like to see a similar feel-good (or perhaps not?) analysis of the other big schemes I've seen in my lifetime endlessly prevaricated upon and finally grudgingly given the go-ahead - HS1, the West Coast Main Line upgrade, the East Coast Main Line electrification to mention three - and "EGIP", the Edinburgh Glasgow electrification infrastructure project where finally we have electric between the two major Scottish cities and a brilliant quarter hourly service - scaled back because of Covid to rush hours, half hourly the rest of the day.
Actually, still a bit early to judge the success of EGIP perhaps. Then, what about the wider economic/regeneration effects of other projects that may be rather slow to bear fruit: Airdrie - Bathgate reopening, Borders Rail reopening, Alloa, Larkhall, Whifflet, Paisley Canal electrifications...do they actually happen? Can they be measured?
Yes, post implementation reviews are often carried out Julian, and such an analysis has been done on Elizabeth Line and Borders for sure. Not sure about the others but it's a good question and worth exploring.
I've got some friends who used to commute on cross-city north, but gave up because of lack of reliability - about once a month there was a disruption to their journey due to a bridge strike somewhere up and down the line.
The effects of bridge strikes, and wider lack of reliability, have a long-term corrosive effect on public transport use.
Excellent listen guys 🇬🇧💯🙌
Nigel, North Humber line could be confused with a line from Hull to Gilberdyke and Selby. So, the Northumberland line is less confusing.
I know, that's a fair point Chris. I think it's just that poor Nigel didn't have his teeth in that day and so stumbled over the name. But for goodness sakes, let's keep that between you and me and no-one else......😉
@@GreenSignals I heard that....
Happy to hear about this with regard to Virgin, competition. St. Pancras though, the departure lounge needs an upgrade because it gets way too crammed in there.
It does get busy, yes!
Another good show fellas. LENNON = Latest Earnings Networked Nationally OverNight, and it's a ticket sales database, rather than a model, though some ('ORCATS') assumptions are applied to allow allocation to TOCs etc.. Journeys aren't a particularly reliable indicator of recovery post-pandemic, due to the increase in split ticketing. It's better to follow trends in passenger miles and (real) revenue. With regard to the latter, everyone in rail needs to avoid any complacency about 'revenue coming back'. In the most recent quarter of ORR data (summer 2024), real revenue is still 11% below pre-covid levels, and that was without any industrial action. That means revenue is still a THIRD lower than pre-pandemic forecasts for 2024/25. Business travel revenue is still at around only 50% of 2019 levels, though it is good that firms telling workers they must come to the office more regularly is driving a significant recovery in commuting. The current over-dependence on leisure travel will be well understood at DfT/HMT and doesn't bode well for decisions about HS2 Lite etc.. The subsidy to GB Rail is still around £20k a minute, double what it was, and this subsidy is to a primarily leisure travel industry, used by people with above average earnings. No room for any complacency, and a step-change improvement in reliability is needed to win back more of the high-yield business travel, lost to Teams/Zoom. HMT and DfT will also be looking for serious improvements in productivity, but there is absolutely no sign of Labour/GBR being able to deliver on that. The unions will continue to 'call the shots', with passenger interests coming a poor second. Thankfully, with road congestion as bad as ever, and elections every five years, the medium term prospects are far rosier.
LENNON is an acronym for "Latest Earnings Networked Nationally Over Night"
Thankyou!!!
Brilliant - although it is one of the more tortured acronyms I feel Trevor!
Lots of topics of interest deserving lots of comment.
Eurostar - only been on it once myself but my wife used to use it to get to Le Mans for the 24 hour race. I’d take the car earlier in the week, on the Friday she’d drive to Ashford, get the Eurostar change in Paris and be in Le Mans for lunch. Coming back we’d leave at the same time, and she’d be almost home as I was getting on the ferry. Going via London means she can’t get to Le Mans for lunch, and it’s questionable as to whether she can’t get home due to crossing London in time to catch the last train home.
Rail Sale. I have asked Steve White the same questions on X but I wonder how many of the tickets sold are new journeys ie sold to those who would not have travelled or would have used an alternative means of travel. Also how many sold to commuters who are time shifting their commute.
It’s good that Richard has got a ticket London to Newcastle for £25 however that’s actually I suspect a loss of revenue to the railway. He probably would have been making the journey, probably would have gone by rail and therefore would have paid more. If the vast majority of sales from the railway sale are to those who would have gone by rail anyway then all it has done is lost revenue!
Brit living in France here. Whether it would really bring down fares, or not, I don't know but I would love to see some form of competition through the Channel Tunnel. As you say, Eurostar is horrendously expensive and needs a boot up the backside. It would also be nice to see a return of the direct services to other parts of France once offered by Eurostar. They were not always massively convenient due to customs issues but they were more convenient than changing in Paris or Lille.
Personally always found the change in Lille very straightforward. Through services are always dependant on volumes / market
hs1 price drop for train operations has probably had a big part for virgin commiting and there’s likely to be congestion in the future on the line but there’s defo no congestion on the line at the moment
It is important to note that any filtering, no matter how slight or whatever the cause, should be avoided when considering an official RAIB accident report. They are eventually always made available for public scrutiny. Having just read the RAIB report into the Strathspey Railway Flying Scotsman collision undiluted, I now feel it has done a very good, objective job, which is not how I felt when I only had third-party opinions to go on, no matter how expertly-formed they were.
Very fair comments Mike.
@@mikeuk4130 Are they using the principle of never assigning blame? I know that some accident reports do that.
@@qwertyTRiG Yes, I believe they are and that is the stated intention behind all their work. I presume that is so that their report may be used by others such as the police and railway authorities as the foundation on which punitive and other action can be taken, as appropriate.
Surely the Northumber line is the line from Goole/Selby to Hull. Nowhere near the newly opened Northumberland line.
Literally, yes!
Old Roan is on the Ormskirk branch of Merseyrail, part of the former Preston - Liverpool "main line". 😉
Of course - sorry! I used to go through when travelling from Preston to Ormskirk to Liverpool. I think I said it was near Maghull which of course it is because it is on the same line. Doh - senior moment.
@@GreenSignals Not to worry, easy to forget when one doesn't travel by for a while! I know it fairly well these days as my son lives nearby, and yes, it is the next one along from Maghull! 🙂
Would be great to have 3, 4 or more operators challenging Eurostar (who will never surrender any depot access rights) and it would also be nice to see a simple passenger shuttle between Ebsfleet and Lille that maybe a bit more cost effective allowing us to park and ride from Ebsfleet (as opposed to having to travel at great cost via London) and change onto other European services at Lille Europe.
Great episode as ever... and I didnt think you were still allowed to call it National Express Group (Richard 😂)... its "Mobico" now... 🙄
Thanks Scott!
As for the name, personally, can't bear Mobico (or any other similar made up names). So I'll stick with National Express Group. 🙂
@@GreenSignals totally agree with you 👍
As for the RAIB interview - I get both sides. You're right that the driver should get his backside kicked for this, in the end I agree with you it's up to him to know what the loco is doing at all times. The buck stops with the driver and there is no exception to that. He can devolve some of that responsibility, often to the fireman for signal sighting for example, but he needs to make sure both he and the party charged with the responsibility are abundantly clear of their duty. That didn't happen so he has to carry the can. But I would still have expected someone on the platform during the move, to guide him so there is a clear failure there as well.
However, it isn't RAIB's job to kick backsides. Their job is to learn lessons, and if there are things that can be put in place to mitigate the effect of a mistake then those things should be considered. After all, we all make mistakes and we have a lot of safety systems on the railway to catch driver mistakes. So they are right to put a focus on that action. That said, I still agree with you that they didn't seem to put enough accent on the action of the driver and the lack of platform staff during the move.
Marion
Thanks Marion. My problem with the report is one of tone, which is important in communicating severity. I just felt it should have been a bit more severe in tone.
Thanks Marion. I suspect once the full interview goes up, there will be some constrasting points of view!
Is there a reason why additional stock has to be maintained at Temple Mills? Surely a new depot in France or Belgium is not out of the question, especially if the stock used is not 395 units.
you have to have some maintenance issue this side of the Tunnel
HS1 has lots of locations that were supposed to be served by Eurostar, which are now not served by the company. It could be good to see those brought back into use. Virgin's publicity machine brought to bare could see these not served locations brought back into use and thrive.
All fair.
I do think there would be good competition with both Virgin and Eurostar.
However, I do also think what could the ticket prices be and how many trains per day would Virgin operate?
There is a lot of changes on the UK railway currently also and, it does seem there is too much going on, especially with a new railway being constructed- HS2.
Good that Crossrail should be so emphatically successful. The degree of comparability with Crossrail 2 is encouraging enough to justify taking Crossrail 2 to its next stage. Slight question about the amount of passenger abstraction from the 2 existing lines between Liverpool Street and Paddington
Theres plenty of lines they need to reopen. Though it shouldve been AC and added to Tyne and Wear Metro proper
Given the distance and separation of stations, I think heavy rail is logical in this situation.
I suspect the overall passenger number data hides a big disparity across the week. My own experience says that most people take their office time on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday only (lets call them TWTs) and very few on Monday and Friday. You could find that TWT travel is back up near 100% or even greater and M and F morning travel is quite low.
I'm not complaining, long may it continue that the TWTs are too shortsighted to realise as I can do Monday and Friday and benefit from quieter roads and trains.
The increasing numbers of Monday -Thursday commuters is probably only part of why yield is finally playing catch up. Off-peak trains have been getting busier and busier, which means Advance Purchase fares are going up. It's all good to see, but we're going to need more capacity soon
The HGV industry clearly can't get its house in order where running into low railway bridges is concerned. So I wonder what the incentive is on that industry to do something about it?
For instance, do Network Rail pursue offenders for financial compensation or not? It would be good if Green Signals could investigate this and tell us what the come-back is (if any) on offending HGV companies and their drivers.
Why not install substantial steel beams over the roadway either side of any low bridge set at a height which is fractionally lower than the bridge deck, so the HGVs can harmlessly hit those instead of the bridge?
I do remember that the Gloucester Warwickshire Railway were fed up of their bridge at Broadway being hit so frequently so do take action (it was even hit one day while GWR staff were on the bridge repairing it from an earlier hit). They pursue offenders for all costs resulting from the bridge strike, and they also take out private prosecutions of offenders where appropriate.
Vince C.
Regarding the Clifton Bridge near Penrith, is there any indication whether both the WCML and M6 are going to be closed at the same time? If so that will cause problems even with notice.
Avanti WC will probably not run anything north of Preston for the duration leaving Carlisle to Glasgow and Edinburgh unserved or using a bus replacement.
True, HS1 cannot be that busy otherwise Javelin trains wouldn’t be as short as they currently are, again connecting or regional channel tunnel services would have mitigated this but here we are.
Re Virgin and Tunnel. Not sure about capacity through the tunnel, certainly a lot less freight using it so likely room for Virgin here and on HS1. St.Pancras could be an issue, possibly not with platform occupation but certainly with passenger booking in access and egress. A pal of mine working for Eurostar in the setup phase suggested as far back as the late 80’s that they should/possibly maybe logical to have made provision for 4 tracks through the tunnel, not sure we are there yet but if logical move away from cars and flying took more sensible momentum then he could well be have been right.
At the end I honestly thought that Richard was about to say ‘and it’s goodbye from him’!
Thanks - will be interesting to see where this goes but I do think Temple Mills still the first task to resolve.
It would be nice to see Eurostar services operate beyond St Pancras even if initially that comes in the form of discount tickets into Euston and Kings X.
The line has always been hugely more beneficial for those on London & SE and regional Eurostar was never given the time, effort or resources to take off and I suspect that move was intentional by the DfT.
Or maybe Regional Eurostar just made no sense from the outset....
With Mr B's well known disdain about many of the railway reopening proposals, what new/reopened lines and stations do you think are justified?
I did a bit of population analysis using GIS software, and the two routes that stood out were the Northumberine and the Ivanhoe line. Other than that the biggest catchment population gains were on the outskirts of existing towns (Peterborough, Leicester, Plymouth, Swindon, Gloucester etc) all of which would be good if they didn't cause problems with track capacity.
The Flying Scotsman incident was on Network Rail territory, not on the Srathspey railway.
That is potentially misleading as it could lead someone to think Network Rail were involved in this incident in some way. However, as the RAIB report makes clear, Aviemore station building and the track leading to platform 3 are leased by Strathspey Railway Company ("SRC") from Network Rail. SRC is responsible for all maintenance activities on the Strathspey Railway, including the section leased from Network Rail. SRC were in charge of the movement of Flying Scotsman that day. Network Rail are not included in the either the Recommendations or Learning points in the RAIB report.
@@GreenSignals Aviemore Station is Network Rail, not SRC property.
The platform is Network Rail.
The track is Network Rail.
Nothing I posted was in any way inaccurate.
@@andrewnelson4057 Indeed so Andrew. Nothing you said was inaccurate. However, I was also keen to ensure that folks less informed than you did not then draw the inference that Network Rail were somehow culpable. I know that was not your intention - you were simply stating those facts of asset ownership (which is different from who is responsible in various operating scenarios depending on what the lease may say) but you know what people can be like on social media! Cheers.
Could a depot at Brent sidings be built it has direct access to St Pancras via the cord at Camden
Or in Kent near the infrastructure depot maybe?
It would need to have access via a "continental loading gauge" line I would guess
Indeed, and why spend the capital if another depot (TM) has the capacity?
Clifton Bridge renewal whilst essential is another excuse for Avanti and TransPennine to abandon the railway between Preston and Carlisle, no doubt with Buses filling the gap but most passengers heading for their cars. And that is just a taster for the recently publicised rewiring and resignalling that is due for WCML north of Weaver Junction, plus a couple of other Rail / Motorway bridges in Cumbria.
In a better world I would build the proposed HS2 to HS1 link in London. Allow open access with a Brussels or Paris to Ashford, Ebbsfleet, Stratford International, the Connecting line and then up to Birmingham Curzon Street where there are going to be unused platforms. However in a sane world those platforms would already be needed for the bits of HS2 that have been cancelled! Heaven forbid a bit of joined up hand writing!
I believe that there was passive provision being made in the HS2 Tunnel for the connecting line but further reading sees that this was dropped.
I assume there's more room in St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet, Ashford) overnight. Is there room for a night train leaving London in the evening and running down to Italy, Spain, Germany?
But would there be any market for those services? Important to differentiate between what we’d like, emotionally - and what’s practically / economically sensible.
@@GreenSignals You're right, of course. I love the idea, but it may not be financially viable. Far more eco-friendly, though.
Two questions. Can’t Virgin have a maintenance depot in France or Belgium?
Second question. When talking about passenger revenues, has anyone looked at the grassroots elements of this. I’m talking some TOCs with little to nothing in terms of revenue protection departments. Unmanned stations etc etc.
Yes roll on Sir Richard Branson
It sounds like the Eurostar group by say there no space at temple mills are basically say its our depo so no one else can use it apart from us etc
Well, it could be. Or it could be a fair assessment. The ORR report will be interesting.
I wish Virgin would make a comeback on the WCML, as that was the last time we had anything resembling a reliable service.
Avanti should be renamed Spazzatura...
If virgin trains do start completing with Eurostar services will it mean Ashford International will reopen?
No idea I'm afraid. I think there's a great deal of detail to hear about that may not even have been thought through yet.
Stratford International right near Temple Mills is dead quiet !!
Hi chaps.l & Steff. Great show once again.
The Chunnel issue is fascinating. Apparently, Le Shuttle is operating at around 50% capacity, whilst Eurostar services are also not at full capacity, since all the services from the North & those meant to stop at interim stations haven't happened. Also, there were more services pre-Covid than there are now.
Using the passenger terminals at both St Pancras & Gare du Nord is not a pleasant experience these days, and Eurostar has no plans to improve things. Complacency is alive & well in the Eurostar boardroom.
As for the ridership stats on our domestic lines, it still shows that 1 in every 10 passengers have not returned since Covid. If I worked at The Treasury, I'd be pushing the DoT to reduce the rail budget to reflect this "new reality."
Regarding ticket prices: on Friday 12 Jan, a return trip buying Advanced tickets from Diss to Liverpool St was £54. Yesterday, (15 Jan) the exact same journey was £35. ?? ??
Are the owners of St. Pancras willing to provide more space for the border facilities? Retail seems to be their priority.
And for the love of god, abolish the treasury. This country can't move forward with this obsolete network.
Seems odd that Virgin are buying trains when there seem to be endless hoops to jump through to get anywhere near a contract. Is the maintenance facility really full or is it a deterrent to any applications. Maybe if there are relevant facilities available now on the mainland, a contract could go to to a French company. Fond memories of a touring holiday around Wales, and staying in Bala. Had already been following that project...hopefully it will bring opportunity to many , and not just at the railway. Not sure if you've done anything on the GCML reunification, but that's something I'm keen to see.
Would a new Channel tunnel operator have to use Temple Mills? There's a CTRL connection to the Midland, with a connection to the Great Western and WCML and via the MML Hendon Lines and Duddinghill. It allows for a lot of connections to other lines. Surely that opens new doors to other potential depot locations?
That would require trains compatible with the UK loading gauge. The original Eurostars were, but I think the current fleet isn't. So if a new operator goes for continental loading gauge it's not an option.
@ that’s true, but it’s not unreasonable.
The issue will be cost. A fully equipped depot is tens of millions. Why do that if there is capacity at an existing facility?
@ if there is capacity at Temple Mills, then it makes sense to go there. Might be something for the ORR’s competition authority to look at.
Good point, it’s got me wondering whether there would be an opportunity to use the original Eurostar depot at North Pole??
Bring it on ! Pity DB or NS are not leading. There is loads of track capacity, capacity is something the UK plc is terrified of. eg all the rubbish about WCML being full! I have used Eurostar a lot but if there are any hiccups they just shut up shop and abandon the customers. The staff at Brussels seem just to disappear if there are any issues. We need someone who WANTS to run a train service. Make sure a couple of trains a day can get to Manchester as well, never mind St. P !
The rubbish about WCML being full eh? Of course, on any railway there's always LOADS of capacity, just not at the points where it is most congested.......
Even my patch of Kiwirail was congested yesterday afternoon with four passenger and four freights on a 30 kilometre stretch of single track CTC. Much of the rest of the day the track guys have free rein.
97%. But a population that has grown by over a million....
Hi instead of going across the channel why dont Virgin do a service Manchester to London via Macclesfield and Crewe
Is the M6 bridge at Penrith really 71 years old? That suggests it was built in 1954 whereas the M6 Penrith by-pass opened in November 1968, does anybody know better? Is there a worrying trend here of railway bridges built in concrete having to be replaced - the M62 bridge at Castleton was only 60 years when it was replaced with a new bridge that is designed for a 120 year life.
50,000 journey's on the Northumberland line in a month, we'll I think there's hope for the colne to Skipton line , sorry guys just had to get it in.....
a service from paris to manc would be amazing as they planned but its never gonna happen now
Guys I live 10 minutes from Kent’s biggest white elephant Ebsfleet where Eurostar no longer stops so I’m all for an operator who looks after people and Virgin will definitely do that
It’s time Eurostar pulled out of the cross channel train business and let somebody take over that will actually care about the people and stop in the two stations specifically built for them
Private companies look after their profits. If the demand isn't high enough to justify the costs they won't bother paying for the border services.
Perhaps Virgin should pay their tax/franchise bill first? As you know HS1 was flogged off at a give away price, I believe it’s the most expensive track in Europe mile per mile? Please correct if untrue. Tory government refused any financial assistance to Eurostar during covid, SNCF i.e. French tax payers had to support British transport infrastructure, therefore I understand the company attempting to claw back costs. Not sure of the circumstances regarding Eurotunnel during covid. Of course there was the Tory minister of transport awarding a huge contract to a ferry company that didn’t have any ferries.
Could you be more specific on the tax / franchise bill? To what are you referring?
@ I understood that Virgin returned the franchise mid term when the contract end loaded fees went up. As far as I’m aware the core virgin company in based in a tax haven avoiding uk taxes?
Use it's proper name before the PR men got their hands on it Nigel. It's the Blyth and Tyne!
I did worry that Nigel might have started something here....😃
Re revenue growth. Why strip out effects of Elizabeth line when assessing growth? If a business invests to grow its business it would not then monitor the actual return on its investment by stripping out the effects of said investment? Sounds like a way of downplaying the health of the railway?
because otherwise it would be impossible to compare apples with apples, like for like etc. The problem is that the Elizabeth Line has had such a major impact, including it unfiltered woudl prevent rtrends from being observed. Certainly not downplaying the health of the railway, in fact, the reverse. It's actually saying things are really good and then there is the Elizabeth Line AS WELL.
However, be assured that the Elizabeth Line has been very carefully analysed in terms of returns etc. We will be covering that on a future show.
@ thanks. Yes understand that, and certainly not accusing your podcast of downplaying the health of the railway. It’s just at some point in time we reach a new norm.
@@angusswanson5984 Agree with that!
At least they won't be ordering more of the 800 series.
I did think you might say that.....!
Bigger Depot MORE JOBS IN UK TELL STARMER !!
Very good news on the passenger data, sort of blows away, again, the HS2 Anti's vain claims that the existing railway has plenty of capacity to spare.
Yep.
Brilliant content as usual.
What about this year’s WCML closures?
going to be covering that too!
Stop at ebbsfleet and ashford again
Lorries following sat nav causing bridge hits :(
Indeed.
How hard would it be to detect overheight vehicles before they strike a bridge and warn them more forcefully, or stop them? It's only technology and money after all. And do these errant road-users have to pay for their misdeeds? I think the band(s) Franz Ferdinand and Sparks would have something to say about this too.
very easy, easier than building a speed camera, why?
Frankly, as a passenger to the UK from Northern Europe, I would like to see ferry services reinstated.
Do the revenue figures take account of delay repayment claims? (I’m an “into London commuter” and claim a frankly frightening amount back most weeks on delays into Paddington with GWR. I hear similar from colleagues using other rail operator’s services into other London stations.)
No, they don't
The numbers from the ORR certainly show people still love their railway despite us all moaning. The news of the Elizabeth line just proves built it and they will come i think we will see the same when hs2 is built and is suspect the section to Crewe and Manchester is far from dead
Makes me wonder what the Portishead line will be like when they get it bloody built that's dragged on too long now
Elizabeth Line coming under Tokyo metro operator . Is this to shove the overcrowded passengers on at Paddington and TCR ?
I think you know it's not.......!
@@GreenSignals u tried travelling at peak hours Liv Street to Stratford (I would go upstairs and use Greater Anglia but the stairs/ lift route to the mainline station is a faff from Moorgate in the rain.
If a driver hits your bridge shame on them, if ten drivers hit your bridge shame on you.
Barefaced cheek epitomises Virgin, having lost the shambolic( am being excessively kind) East Coast mainline franchise, he/they had the brass necked nerve to try for compensation. 😳
It all went ominously quiet, did he/they get any?
So which none British train manufacturer will Virgin go for?
There are no British train manufacturers the only sites in Britain are Derby ( Canadian). Newton Aycliffe (Japs) or my old Company Melksham (German). Incidentally Branson made sure we got the Pendolino brake overhaul and not the Original builders in Czech Republic as we are the old Westinghouse brakes based in UK!
Lets hope virgin are not coming back
For Christ's sake, simple English grammar. Are Virgin Trains, not Is Virgin Trains. Is equals singular... Are equals more than one thus, Are Virgin Trains Making A Comeback?
Virgin Trains is the name of a company, hence it is singular. It's not the trains themselves making the comeback. You're welcome.
@@GreenSignals Absolutely. The United States IS seeking a trade deal.
@@GreenSignals In the words of the immortal Meat Loaf, 'you took the words right out of my mouth...!"
Thanks!
Thanks Bob. Really appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks Derek. Really appreciated.
Barefaced cheek epitomises Virgin, having lost the shambolic( am being excessively kind) East Coast mainline franchise, he/they had the brass necked nerve to try for compensation. 😳
It all went ominously quiet, did he/they get any?
If that's being excessively kind, remind me not to cross you when you're angry.....
@@GreenSignals A bilious battler like K Tanner would be a suitable candidate for the upcoming Runcorn byelection.
Thanks
Thanks!
Thanks Marion - Much appreciated as ever.
Thanks
Thanks