To me Lucas made a lot of sense. He actively courted her. He helped her with her book, became invested in her writing. He showed he believes in marriage with how upset he was at his parents divorce. He was kind and patient and they actually had intimate moments together. Shrug. I'm happy
You should be happy because they wrote the script to not have Nathan to have one opportunity to show Elizabeth true Love that comes from the heart , not trinkets and surface things such as Charm., Flattery , candle light dinners , car and horse rides and obsessively watching from a distance at her and Nathan , and etc . the team Gambler fans had it their way all along , do of course you should be happy they wrote the script to favor the Gambler ! Facts ! We too ( Team Nathan ) were loyal to our guy and since they back stabbed us , the only recourse we have now is to not reward lying and deceit and toying with us and giving us false hope that Nathan had a chance when actually it was all a ruse ! We will miss the " old show " because we invested time, energy, and were with Elizabeth since that first stage coach ride 8 seasons ago. , but they have altered her character and the premise of the show and they disregarded Ms. O's books that had a school teacher and a Mountie , not a school teacher and a Gambler saloon owner ! This is part of the reason why a lot of us will never watch the show again ! It was wonderful anticipating and being excited and anxiously awaiting each new seasons and each new episode ! It seems like when Jack died the soul of the show died ! This is not the Elizabeth that we once knee and loved ! And for those that say Its just a tv show. Of course it is and we understand that, we not stupid, but tv shows depicts and reflects real life, and in real life there will come disappointments and loss , but when it comes at the hands of lying and deceit, then that's when you know ....its time to let it go! Maybe Mountie Nathan will move on towards that little town nearby Hope Valley , the site of " When Hope Calls " and settles in a befriends the sisters at the orphanage, or maybe start a friendship with Fiona but not Faith ! Yes , we will miss it but we have returned our Heartie badges. ! It's been a pleasure going back and forth rooting for our respective teams , it should have been without the nastiness because we all are entitled to our opinions , and it's funny seeing the team Gambler fans bragging , and it's ok because had Nathan won , right now we would be elated having fun ! For many of us we're over and done !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 They already shared Mrs O's vision with Jack and Elizabeth and she told them not to repeat it. That's why we got this outcome because the creative team, Erin and Janette Oke, amongst other people behind the scenes specifically asked for it.
I am glad it was Lucas, i always found him and Elizabeth perfect fit... they just matched and fitted well. And the sparks and growing relationship since they met and they challenge each other. If u look at all the moments and scenes together it is like a mini own love story building to this point (and their own library, Lucas always putting her first and his patience and unconditional love). And i think Elizabeth lights up with him, Its her eyes. I look forward to season 9 seeing more of their courtship now that they have declared their love in actions and words.
I cant see what you are ALL so upset about..???!!!!Lucas has always been so much more interesting and has had so much more to give to a relationship , especially with Elizabeth!!. And I guess you haven't realized how many people were rooting for Lucas.!!!!..Nathan willbe FINE..He has you 3 in his corner...!!! ☺☺Really ladies, Lucas IS A CATCH!!!...(Nathan is going to be FINE...)
It’s interesting. I thought Nathan was closed off and Lucas wasn’t. Nathan’s conversations with Elizabeth were cryptic, and Lucas was very open. Also, Nathan was always short and a bit angry, yet not willing to talk much. Very much turned me off. Lucas never spoke to Elizabeth that way. Plus anytime Nathan did something for her, it seemed reactionary or because he “should.” Nathan didn’t pursue her, so he shouldn’t end up with her. If we are saying the triangle went on too long, Nathan had plenty of time to do something. Elizabeth choosing another Mountie seems wrong. Jack cannot be replaced. I see Nathan as the one who needs to loosen up.
Once again, to elaborate a point I made earlier, we all saw S6-S8 through our Nathan or Lucas colored glasses, I think the show was written to do exactly that. What you saw as rudeness, many of us saw as angst and pent up emotions. Nathan had a lot of emotional hurdles to overcome, he tried hard to remain duty bound with a very burden of Jack losing his life as his replacement on his shoulder, but couldn’t help but fell in love with Elizabeth. He is not as sophisticated with his words and I agree that he needed to loosen up which he eventually did in S8, laid his heart bare and about to become a “lot more fun” now that the weight was lifted off him, but it didn’t matter at the end. I would also point out Kevin McGarry is an expert non verbal communicator on screen. There was a lot underneath that hard exterior.
Since I am so angry at Hallmark, let me point out a couple examples of how sloppy their writing is through the years. Jack dies and what happened to Rip--he was never seen again--did they bury him with Jack? Lucas joins the show and someone asks him if he speaks French--he replies the only thing French about him is his name and it stops there--yet, in season 8, he is speaking fluent French. Did we miss the lessons? When Elizabeth was helping Nathan look for Allie when she skipped school, she asked what she liked to do--he said climb trees, ride horses, catch frogs--yet later in the series, he was giving her his first horse riding lessons. Elizabeth projects her love of Jack onto Nathan even though she is blindfolded. They need to pay attention to their own show.
Lucas also spoke French in S6 to his friend on the phone when he first arrived in the same episode he told Rosie he didn’t speak French. He was purposely keeping details about himself to himself because he was on the run from Amos Dixon
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast If there was, I missed it, and it would have been worth a mention on the show when she was writing in her journal, at least. Some of my favorite scenes was Jack talking to the dog about Elizabeth.
Also Molly's daughter who didn't speak in season 1 and who was Lucas talking to on the phone in season 6 when he said, "You were right, Hope Valley is the perfect town" perfect for what? And where was Jesse?
I loved it. I have been team Lucas from the beginning. I hate that it took 3 seasons to finish it. I like Nathan but only seen friendship and guilt when they were together. I feel the ghost of Jack would have followed them. I'm looking forward to his new storyline in season 9. I felt the ending was done wonderfully. Cant wait to see what happens next. So many exciting things to look forward to.😊
I really appreciated you guys being open minded about Team Lucas, it's extremely refreshing coming from Team Nathan members. I'm not saying all of them, but some of them have savagely attacked Lucas's character for some reason, apparently he's beneath Elizabeth, a liar, gambler, a shady character, I could go on, even though objectively Nathan has done some morally questionable things, as well as made shady judgment calls (i.e how he handled the whole Jack connection is one example, it really irked me that he has lied for so long and that he still didn’t tell her even after he saw her as a romantic interest, it just really cheapened his character for me, but I won’t go into that right now) and the vitriol that poor Chris McNally is facing is just brutal to see, not to mention extremely cringe-worthy. How people can't seperate an actor and a character is beyond me. 🤦🏽♀️Not to mention, the way they have dragged Elizabeth, some went so far as to call her a superficial gold digger who only chose Lucas for a comfortable life and nice dresses, even though Nathan is doing quite well for himself too at this point. 😕 Anyway I digress, I can understand the frustration that TN feel, I have felt this way countless times with other shows and frankly you guys dealt with it in a much classier fashion than I used to. I think being on TL, I just absorbed what was shown to me. For example, Elizabeth consistently running away from Nathan and avoiding romantic settings and dates with him, as well as the whole Jack connection and him having lied about it for so long, all further cemented what I felt to be the natural progression towards Elizabeth & Lucas being endgame. Plus the amount of intimate scenes we did get between E+L really had us believe that they were the only possible outcome, otherwise why were we deliberately shown these scenes (in my opinion at least), especially since Elizabeth isn't the kind of person to lead someone on that much. Don't get me wrong, I understand the irony but the truth is her scenes with Nathan tended to be a lot more subtle and symbolic, whereas she is out here with Lucas in the library, fanning herself after nearly giving into temptation, so they were a lot more tactile. It became more and more difficult to see her disregarding that kind of intense attraction, beautiful friendship and potential for a romantic future, for what had just started to seem like a casual flirtation, from her perspective of course, not Nathan's. (Again that was just my personal opinion throughout the season) Having heard you all out, I can definitely see that the E+L scenes could have been more personalised towards them and that Lucas could have been a little more fleshed out, although I'm still annoyed about his & Little Jack's scene being cut this season, where he bought and gave him a toy puppy that we later just randomly see him playing with.😒 I think the whole 'love is worth fighting for' is the mantra that both Nathan and Elizabeth stand by, they have that in common and if this was pre-Jack's death, I believe Nathan would have gotten a fair shot. Yet upon further analysis, I think while that is how E herself operates, she doesn't necessarily respond to it in a positive way, which is proven every time Nathan tries to push things further between them. She prefers or rather needs at this point in her life the 'love is patient' mantra, she requires someone who is a touch more imperturbable & even keeled and I think that is a product of her grief and the life she lost. It all altered her brain chemistry a little, like trauma and grief often do and therefore Lucas's nature was more appealing and something she desired for the next part of her life. I do look forward to Nathan receiving a new love interest, someone who only has eyes for him and hopefully we can get better developmental scenes between E+L and LJ, which Chris also stated he wanted in an interview. I am also sorry that the love triangle dragged on for so long and that it wasn't nipped in the bud earlier so that we could see Nathan moving on and maybe befriending Lucas properly as well, (I've always thought that their friendship was a missed opportunity) because you guys are right, it did make it that much more heartbreaking when she ultimately rejected Nathan.
If you remember, Lucas loaned Nathan the $1,000. that time for his brother in law, helped him up at the oil rig fire, told him not to leave town--that it would be a mistake, and told him he had his back, so I definitely expect a good friendship with them in the future. Maybe Lucas will ask him for some pointers on being a good Dad since Nathan is experienced.
Ok. It’s a little scary here because I’m TeamLucas but here it goes😬. I’ve watched this show since it’s debut and I loved the storyline with Jack. He was her Mountie IMO from the books... For that alone I could never get behind a pairing with Nathan. I always felt like they were trying to find Jack in Nathan for Elizabeth and they are just two different guys. I don’t dislike Nathan but I could never see him with Her. Outside of that I never felt any real chemistry with the two of them. I feel as though Lucas was the best guy. Patient and kind. Also involved with her and her hopes for her future and his interactions with little Jack. Lucas is a great guy. Rushing off to save a friend we never met. Offering everything he had to save Elizabeth from the meanies. Giving Henry chances. Joining in friendly banter or conversations with others in town..helping people keep their livelihoods (His chef makes me giggle). All the while waiting for Elizabeth to decide. He loved her enough to let her go putting her happiness above his own-he broke my heart in that scene but she needed to hear it. I hate that the actor Chris is receiving pushback for following a script. I thought the writing this season was horrible outside of Joseph and his family and Henry and the possibility of Abigails return( Lord please let her return-like she’s the only one who’s ever paid to cheat her kids into college-she did the crime she paid the time). 😂🙄 I was beyond happy first when she told Nathan no because really this was drug out long enough and second when Lucas showed up on that bridge. For me it was always Lucas. But in the end it will always be Hope Valley. You’re not going to find a show like this anywhere else. It’s a magical place and I can’t wait until we get to go back there next year. 🙂
The character of Lucas and Nathan were written to be very different with individual admirable qualities, and different segments of the WCTH viewers gravitated towards each. To give an analogy, there were like the colors Blue and Red, both beautiful colors, but people has individual preferences of what they like the best. Attacking the actors for following the script or even for them to have their own opinions, make no sense. But I really wish in S8, the WCTH show runners baked in more on “Love is patient, Love is kind” theme rather than focusing as much on “True love is worth flighting for”, and gave Elizabeth/Lucas relation as well as the character Lucas better depth. Like you, I and many others here are following show since its inception but really got invested into a different interpretation of the narrative. As the hosts as well as many commentators here have alluded, that the triangle could have been more delicately handled since one of beloved character (at least by a segment of the viewer), never really was even part of it. The S8 storyline feels very unnecessarily unfair and heartbreaking to Nathan and TN as it was depicted, who could have been more gently let down. Most of us will eventually get over, but this is certainly the most acute heartbreak a TV show/movie ever caused to me.
@@nazmaferdous5772 Hi another TL fan here, but I just wanted to say you really expressed yourself eloquently and beautifully. I'm sorry about your heartbreak & I hope with time, you heal and come back to see more stories with Nathan, Allie & whoever else you enjoy on the show. 😍 If not, that's okay too, just as long as you're doing okay. 🥰
@@nazmaferdous5772 As a TL fan I definitely agree! This was really based on individual's qualities. For example, I gravitated toward Lucas because I like men who primarily start their own thing, like the theater, well-read or at least love books, food, etc. And a guy who's going to patient with me because I'm a klutz at times, would be nice. While men like Nathan (think cops, firefighters, etc.) I find noble or awesome, or guys who adopt kids, etc. the previous appeals to me more.
@@tatijoie I can see patience, literary impulses being the most admirable qualities for many people. I personally really appreciate qualities such as service (even at the cost of their own life), passion, conviction, courage etc., some of which I wish I possessed. As far as being well read and well travelled, I LOVE anyone with an intellectual capacity and mind shaped by extensive reading and traveling. Nathan was not well travelled (he, like most of us did not have the wealthy upbringing that would have afforded opportunity to travel, can't hold it against him), probably does not know the difference between French and Italian wine, agreed, but I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that the character Nathan was not a reader and/or did not have a sharp mind or intellectual capacity. Sure, Nathan did not have a editor for a mother (most of us didn't) and the poetic verses were not ready at his fingertips. but he was a decent reader as evidenced in the scene between him and Rosemary in the library and from the wooden plank he made as a present for Elizabeth. He also valued writing as evidenced in his enthusiasm and encouraging words for Allie and Elizabeth regarding their own writing as well as frequent visit to the library. This was a classic example of a case that caused Nathan to blurt out “She has got to know me” and Elizabeth never really got or tried to know all these different colors in Nathan beside his red uniform. As for sharp mind or intellectual capacity, there is a wide definition for that. Lots of investigation Nathan does, requires very sharp mind, careful execution, observation and intellectual ability to connect the dots (We saw that trait in character Jack as well). My view is that a conversation with character Nathan would be just as intellectually stimulating as a conversation with character Lucas, yes these would be interesting in different ways, but interesting and stimulating nonetheless.
Whatever the outcome, thank you to the entire WCTH team for working through a worldwide pandemic to bring us a wonderful season, filled with new characters and wonderful stories. I can’t imagine having to take numerous nose swabs a day, working in pods with masks all day and some who live in the states being away from their families for months. Kudos to them.
I just want to say that I was for Lucas from the start because i didnt think it would be healthy or realistic for Elizabeth to marry another Mountie after all that she went through (Jacks father died young as well and then Jack and also the time he had to leave to go an fight...uts a very hard life) I dont feel she would have chosen that risky life for her son and that she was very deliberate about not getting involved with Nathan especially after the ending of season 7 reminding her of what is at stake. Having said that I totally agree that the triangle was handled badly and they they needed to show more depth in her relationship with Lucas. They had so many opportunities to discuss important issues and seek each others counsel like they did in season 7 and they just didnt do it. I feel that people would have been more accepring of the outcome if we saw that depth. (I do think it was illustrated better in season 7 and that Lucas was more fun and loose) On a more shallow note...i want his dimples back!!!!!! Too much beard!!!! And for all the hearties that are upset that they didnt stay true to the books...fyi in the third book she marries Jack and leaves hope valley and her teaching position to go a very remote village up north where the only acquaintances she had were non english speaking natives. She doesnt even teach up there! So they havent been true to the books for a long time!!
Why not invite some TL speakers to hear their view as well? I am sorry that TN are so disappointed about the outcome; however, I am happy that the show goes on. Lucas is really very compatible with Elizabeth. He loves her more than he loves himself. That is the most admirable trait a girl can ask for in a man.
We pre-planned all of our guests this season and have had a few of our Lucas-fan friends on in previous episodes; not to mention that many times, we haven't known what side our guest prefers until pre-recording.
The aspect that I’m struggling to wrap my heart around the most is Elizabeth saying to Nathan, “I was trying to replace Jack with you.” I felt like it negated everything good about their interactions in Seasons 6 & 7, which by the way were very positive and Elizabeth was enjoying herself. She encouraged him to ask her out. Until the shooting incident, she was happy to be around Nathan. Not only that, but in Season 8, she was the one seeking him out and demanding information. Nathan left her alone after Episode 2, but she kept going to him. Nathan and Jack are not, were not, and never will be the same person!!! But that’s what TPTB settled on, so Elizabeth said it. How disappointing. That’s like saying all doctors are the same, or all soldiers, or all policemen. DISRESPECTFUL!!! The “I saw Jack in you” line was completely unnecessary for her to say to Nathan, even if it’s true. Nathan knew she was dating Lucas, and Nathan did not know that Lucas had set her free. So, all she needed to say to Nathan was, “Thank you for caring about me, but I am not in love with you.” Or, “I have examined my feelings and discovered I’m in love with Lucas.” Nathan would have accepted that; it’s logical. But instead, in the name of the writers attempting to appease the fans, Elizabeth had to twist the knife further in and say, “I was trying to replace Jack with you.” Even though Nathan already feels terrible that Jack went on the training mission and “died in his place.” She meant to be kind, but it came across like, “I wanted my husband back so I kept looking at you, but I’ve let him go now, so you need to go too.” How awful for Nathan to hear that “I only hung on to you as a reminder of Jack, not for your own self.” It was not necessary for Elizabeth to bring up Jack to justify choosing Lucas. As it was, she doubled the heartbreak by shoving that painful reminder back in Nathan’s face. Lucas deserved better character development as the endgame choice. Such as, Lucas being injured from the explosion and Elizabeth being there for him as he recovered. Lucas deserved more. Nathan deserved more. But sadly things changed too often for that to happen, so we’re left with this. Thanks Kami, Kaycee, and Sarah for the calm way you expressed your thoughts, including your disappointments. Hugs to you as you continue to process.
I really want Nathan to tell her that I thought I loved you because I felt guilty, but once you freed me from that guilt, I realized I just want to be friends.
I don't think Nathan loves her because of his guilt. I think he loves her because of their interactions over time. I think his love is pure and has nothing to do with guilt. He didn't want or plan on falling in love with her, but he did. He should not tell her anything that's not truthful. Other than his heartbroken expression, we don't know what he's thinking right now. Who knows. They could have him say anything they choose next season. It will be interesting where they take things from here. Lots of unknowns.
Pppsss...The other thing ladies...You don't know what being a young widow is like. I do!!!..to expect there to be an easy emotional reentry into love after a wonderful marriage is something I hope that you never have to experience..Elizabeth was doing the best that she could!!....Please don't speak so critically about something that is very painful and difficult and yes awkward...
I guess it was like two different movies because I felt like there were so many clues with her feelings for Lucas. If she had chosen Nathan, I probably would have felt like Nathan fans feel now. I really felt all signs were leaning towards Lucas.
I believe I know what you mean. I love recaps and podcasts, but honestly since so many were heavily weighted with people pulling for Nathan. It seemed to me they did not prioritize huge scenes with Lucas, and gushed over Nathan scenes that seemed very small to me. Sometimes it definitely felt like I watched a different episode or at least a partially different one from what was discussed. I think ppl were very much seeing what they wanted to see in what was being shown. And I say that about me too because those scenes that whipped up some fans into almost a frenzy registered almost not at all with me. It was like we all watched somewhat with blinders on. My fear that Nathan was the end game and always waiting for that shoe to drop really affected my enjoyment of what really was (to me) great Lucas/Elizabeth interaction all season. I am dying to re-watch the season from episode 1 and hopefully pick up on many things I missed the first time.
@@auntkristen3751 I think the biggest reason the viewers believed it would be Team Nathan (myself, anyway) was based on the books--it was always about a Mountie and a school teacher in all the books. I believed that all the way up to the episode of the warming of the serge--then I got a knot in my stomach thinking this is not what I think it is going to be. My complaint is that for an extended season they could have put a lot more consideration into letting down Team Nathan fans. It took forever to get to the finale, and in my opinion, none of it made sense the way they rushed it.
@@alicepahler7610 I get what you are saying about the books. I think I just feel less tied to them personally. Once Jack died, to me all that story was out the window and I didn't want to see a redo.. A lot of ppl went into the triangle predisposed to be Team Nathan because he was a mountie (and I mean before we knew much about either guy just gut reaction). I honestly think Lucas is a better guy for Elizabeth based on what they have shown us since, but I can admit I was predisposed NOT to be Team Nathan from the beginning because I didn't want another teacher/mountie story. It had already been done beautifully, and I didn't want it messed with. I agree with you that it was all extended way too long and resolved too quickly for how invested fans were. They should have resolved Nathan sooner and they should have shown more signs of what was coming. I'm genuinely sorry for anyone disappointed in the ending. Hoping for amazing stories in Season 9
To be completely honest, a lot of Team Nathan fans had high hopes because there were certain people involved with the show that heavily hinted at Nathan the last three years (example: referring to Nathan as the tortoise and Lucas as the hare..... that's just one example out of dozens.) Had fans not had teasers, Nathan fans could have had an easier acceptance of the end. This is one of my biggest grievances, personally. As far as Lucas/.Nathan is concerned, I watched with a critical eye and there were times that I was frustrated with Nathan, despite being a fan of his character. And there were a lot of times I rooted for Lucas because frankly, he was right in his actions, etc. I just wish that they would have given him more layers and taken the focus off of Nathan, especially now knowing the outcome. I like deep conversations, deep conflict that isn't surface, etc. in characters. Hopefully, the show gives fans that and develops Lucas' character even more so in S9.
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast I understand all that. My husband who because it was Mother’s Day sat down and watched the last episode with me said they need to make an alternate ending episode for Nathan fans. Lol. Cant do two whole shows but maybe 1 episode because of how many Nathan fans were invested. I do hope they develop Lucas’s character. I would love to see a storyline involving baby Jack and learning to be a dad. Chris McNally has great hair. They need to let him wear it loose sometimes. Not so much gel. I do agree that it would have been better to leave more hints to Nathan fans that it would be Lucas. If the hadn’t put the few Nathan hints in the last few episodes it might have been better.
I loved the podcast, girls, very balanced and fun. For me it has been really surprising that some people feel so shocked by the ending, because for me the love story that has been told from season 6 till now is LE love story. But you helped me understand why you thought that N was going to be the one even when you yourselved admit that there wasn't actually any interaction between E and N, romantically. It is because N had more story this season than L+ he confessed twice to Elizabeth that he loved her + he always had to pass by when E was with L and L had to watch E with N + the whole stuff from thr last episodes (handholding and the rest). SO i get now, thank you for that. I also understand why you feel cheated, because you didn't get to see an actual romantic interaction between N and E. It was always teased. So I get that, too. Thanks for that. But I would like for you to take into consideration also the following, now that we have a whole year until season 9: 1. You say that N is very noble and brave. And he is. But so is L. I leave for your consideration the following: he risked his live to save a friend (the whole incident mentioned in season 6, the reason he was followed by the bad guys), he helped build a school distroyed by a hurricane, he paid the workers out of his own pocket in order not to leave them on the streets, he was willing to give away all his money just to save E (also in season 6) etc etc 2. I don't think it is true that he hasn't had any interaction with LJ. He has had plenty of interactions with him . From saying "hi little man" several times, to shaking his hand, to talking to him, to giving him gifts. Not only the teddy bear which, by the way, appears in plenty of L and E sceens, including the last library one (speaking of subtle clues which could have turned out to be redherrings, of course), but also the dog toy with which LJ plays in season 8. There was a scene that they cut, with L bringing LJ the toy. And we have to take into consideration that L is a single guy, and for a single guy with no children in his care, I think he interacts with LJ quite a lot
The fans of the gambler ( his words out of his mouth ) are naturally elated their guy won , and though we disagree with the outcome , we can do nothing but stop watching the show ! Immediately after the finale was over , a lot of fans were disheartened and felt cheated , lied to , and taken on a ridiculous long drawn out ride ! When we pointed out facts about the Gambler , they claimed that we were the ones being mean and saying terrible things about him , but actually it was they that has made horrible references about Nathan ! When we said that his profession a Gambler was contrast to what she would want in a man , he is super jealous and there were many red flag moments they never wanted to address , watching creepy all of time while she and Nathan we're interacting ! To run away to another state because he saw her run into Nathan ' arms , and that is known as insecurity issues ! Always questioning her like she was his property ! Each time he was about to explode he tried to force himself to stay stoic and robotic ! There are no " Perfect human beings " but they wrote his part as if he is ! If This is what they are going to do , continue to show nothing but bubble gum teeny love , and no heated exchanges , such as she and Nsthan had , then it will.or has become boring and predictable ! It's a good thing that we are now stop watching because it's their show and that's not the direction we wanted it to him! We will miss it but why reward a slap.in the face ? We're done !
I listened to your whole video. You all three admitted that you watched, I assume the three seasons, as Nathan fans… you preferred his Character. I hope this might help you. Perhaps this break down of the three seasons might help you see it more clearly. I would like suggest you go back and rewatch S6-8, without bias. S6, was the beginnings of the romantic love story of Elizabeth, it was confirmed after Elizabeth’s conversation with Henry about moving on from tragedy. At the dance, we see her “looking” in the direction, if not specifically, at Lucas, she smiles, takes a breath and seems to need to get some courage, so she exits the screen to our right, the next time we see Elizabeth she is coming up behind Lucas to ask him to dance. The cliffhanger was the glance over to see a eerie shot of Nathan at the dark exit, and him turn and walk out. If Elizabeth’s look had been about Nathan, she would have excused herself from Lucas and went after Nathan (similar to when she saw Lucas and his mother in S8 and told Nathan she did not feel well and ask him to walk them home)… she did not. Elizabeth returned her gaze and smile to Lucas and kept dancing. There was plenty of flirting going on in scenes with E&L in S6. However, it was light, and Lucas NEVER DEMANDS ANYTHING of Elizabeth. In S7, the scene in Union City began and spelled out Lucas’ intentions of THE THEME that he would ”Wait, Patiently” for the woman he loved, Elizabeth. … and Elizabeth, even VERBALLY asks him, “so you are going to be… patient, like your Father.”, asking Lucas for confirmation on his his intent, when he once again verbalized it back to her. Again, plenty of flirting going on in S7, as well as Lucas supporting and encouraging Elizabeth’s dream of becoming a writer. As well as Elizabeth supporting and encouraging Lucas with his problems with Henry and the oil company. They were BOTH engaging in each other’s private lives. In the end they BOTH take each other’s “support and encouragement” to step out of their comfort zones… Elizabeth with taking a risk and becoming an author of a Novel. Lucas in risking he money and reputation in saving Henry and the oil company from bankruptcy, but on a larger scale, he saved the many men and the families that looked to Gowen Petroleum for their livelihood, and was a major part of employing, keeping, and progressing, the town of Hope Valley. Again, there was many moments of un-pressured flirting, supporting and encouraging… by both Elizabeth and Lucas, towards each other. S8, Elizabeth shut Nathan down at the end of E2. Elizabeth tells Lucas “I guess we’ll just have to see,” at the end of E4. Elizabeth never changed her decision about Nathan, or Lucas…she was just still holding on to Jack. But while Lucas “waited patiently” for Elizabeth to “feel totally comfortable” with moving on… Nathan pressured Elizabeth from the opening scene in E1, when he became persistent, bold, and outspoken. ***** N: You know we uhm never really got to have that dinner. E: No I guess we didn’t. N: How ‘bout tonight? E: Nathan- N: Elizabeth I have been thinking a lot about you. E: I’ve been thinking of you too. May I let you know later? N: You let me know when ever you’re ready. ***** JUST A NOTE: Nathan’s last line in this scene… as opposed to Lucas’ last line later on when he rides up on Elizabeth and Jack looking at the bunnies. Lucas only says, “Whatever you decide, I want you to be happy.” And Lucas NEVER pressures her throughout the whole rest of the season. He even goes to her and says… “I want you to find your true love. And in order to do that, I want … I need … to set you free.” Lucas was not “breaking up” with Elizabeth, nor telling her he was done, and giving up, or that he did not love her… Lucas saw that Elizabeth was being and feeling pressured by Nathan and her thoughts and moving on from Jack… so he just told her once again, as he said in E1…. “ whatever you decide… I want you to be happy.” Nathan never tells Elizabeth he wants her to be happy… not in any of the 3 seasons. ^^^^^ BACK TO S8 E1 S1 with Elizabeth and Nathan. Clearly Elizabeth had something to tell Nathan, but with his boldness, interrupting, and almost invasion of her personal space and staring her down… Elizabeth balked., and said nothing. Then Nathan says, “You let me know whenever your ready.” Unfortunately he did not mean it. Elizabeth saw him in town and at the school that same morning and never agree to go to dinner with him. Nathan then rides to her house again to tell her “I know I mentioned about about us having dinner but unfortunately have to ride out of town.” NOTE: NATHAN NEVER ONCE TELLS HER ABOUT HIS ENCOUNTER WITH DYLAN PARKS, or who and what happened… EVEN THOUGH DYLAN WALKS RIGHT UP TO ELIZABETH AND JACK AND ENGAGES IN CONVERSATION WITH JACK, EVEN DOWN AT HIS LEVEL AND ONLY FEET AWAY. Nor does Nathan tell Elizabeth he goes to Lucas to get $. 1000 Nathan then returns the next day to Elizabeth’s house pressuring her once again for that dinner… when he had told her just the day before… “N: You let me know when ever you’re ready.” Elizabeth made an excuse about Laura, but again when Nathan persisted and said we can all go, a relief came over her face that it would be the 4 of them… no a one on one encounter., as she had experienced with Lucas on more than one occasion. Nathan once again, at the end of E2 comes riding down the road, while Elizabeth was setting in thought by the pond, while on one of her rides. Her temperament was calm and wanting to tell Nathan something… But Nathan got down off his horse and just started in with his excitement and plans… and would not stop… he interrupted Elizabeth, got her flustered be his insinuation, and declarations…she said “I can’t”. She got on her horse and rode away, fast. Lucas’ theme was “wait, patiently”… till Elizabeth was ready…. and was declared in S7… and verbally confirmed and held in many scenes in S8. Lucas let Elizabeth set the pace and tone, never getting mad, pulling back and refraining when he needed to… as well as when he thought Elizabeth was moving too fast, even for her self. (the office scene) Lucas’ thought were always of her, NOT himself, his feeling, or his desires. Nathan’s theme was “be bold, insinuating, and declaring, proud and loud” … to a woman he had never even shared a meal with. No matter what her feelings were, and he did not once ask her., but his did tell her “he knew she felt the same as him”. And Nathan kept doing it, to Elizabeth, to himself out loud in public while in a scene with Carson, to Lucas, and to Rosemary. Even though every scene from S6-7, except there first scene together in S6….either was because of Allie, with Allie, or concerned Allie. And it was the same with S8, for the most part, AFTER E2. Allie was the reason that Elizabeth and Nathan even spoke, until the last maybe E11/12? Fresh eyes, and rewatching S6-8 may shed some new light. Also… Nathan has been lying by omission, and just blatantly lying to Elizabeth for 3 seasons… that said everything to me. Thank you for reading my response.
WELL SAID!!!! Faison you should consider writing fan fiction I appreciate your step by step recap of 6 ,7,8 Elizabeth journey of letting Jack go and embraced love with Lucas it was clear after UC none date lucabeth ❤️
Def still processing and still questioning the why. Like you I would have liked the triangle resolved sooner so that TN could start the process of letting go. Felt like they let a bomb drop and then waved bye and "see you next season.! ". Just hard to swallow that she was desperately in love with Lucas after spending 11 episodes always watching Nathan ..... I really do want to know WHEN the writers finally figured it out..... Because I could see many unnecessary moments that just kept us TN HOPEFUL and not at all prepared for the fallout. Good on you if you were able to watch it more than once.... I could barely make it through the episode. I was just sooooo shocked and sad. . Worst way to end mother's day!
apparently they went with Lucas becuse they were tired of mountie storylines! i mean come on he's NOT JUST A MOUNTIE they need to stop comparing him to jack he's NOTHING like jack 1 he's introverted vs jack's extroverted 2 he's a deep carer rather than a light hearted teasing encourager like jack, 3 he's a father figure, 4 he's had a lot of family struggles, and his father was a criminal rather than Jacks honorable mountie father 5 he can empathise with elizabeth's pain 6 he can understand what Elizabeth id feeling before she even speaks,(like when she comes to talk about ALLIE and 1 he can tell she was going to talk about allie and 2 he could tell it wasn't about allie it was about him. 6 he is highly sensitive to the feelings of others, whereas jack was a bit more do the right thing regardless (ie. questioning abigail in s 1 ) 7 jack and Elizabeth were angst to love relationship, whereas nathan and Elizabeth always respected each other and then slowly grew closer. 8 he is quick to ask "whats in your heart" whereas jack would generally lift her up by a lighthearted comment or practical help. 9 jack was more of an adventure seeking type whilst Nathan is more of the Protector type.
I saw in an interview that they were well into the 8th. season when they decided it would be Lucas, and I feel the same way you do. I am so disappointed in Hallmark for the shabby way they treated half their viewing audience.
@@jemimapeach483 Tired of Mountie storylines--yet, all the books were based on a Mountie and a school teacher. I think Lucas has to sell his saloon and become a Mountie.
@@alicepahler7610 yes .... I keep thinking.... If they had just killed the triangle after fort clay reveal.. We would have had a few EPs to adjust... Before the hand hold game and before the wedding after moments, the serge warming. That's just three things they could have removed to help us stop hoping. ..
@@alicepahler7610 to me..... The writers would have been more wise to start the season KNOWING exactly which man they were ending the triangle with and then keeping to that choice. It would have made far more sense than what we experienced. In that lost interview Kevin did say there was no grand plan bit they were writing it and changing it as they went.... Not a smartove IMO...
I think, to some extent, we were all hoping for and pulling for the guy who is most like our mate/what attracts us. Nathan didn't do it for me, so it was easy to overlook the 'signs' the show was putting in that direction. Thinking back some were just straight up pointless/misleading for no good reason now that we see it was always Lucas. Why the blindfold scene? Why hold Nathan's hands with the not blaming him scene?? The season 7 finale hug and the warming the serge were obvious Jack references (to me), and I even viewed the looking at him when he was riding by so often in that way too--mostly her missing seeing Jack in his serge riding around town. But I am sure I at least partly saw it that way because I didn't want them together. Team Nathan fans clearly saw it as writing on the wall, and having believed a triangle requires both guys to actually be in the running, they have reason to be upset. I sympathize with the disappointment. Nathan is a good guy, but I liked him best away from Elizabeth too. He was awkward and wierd around Elizabeth (for reasons we now understand but it never changed even after thr truth came out). I honestly have so far liked Nathan's character best in When Hope Calls crossovers. That is when he appeared to be having the most fun... Then and when he was with Allie. Maybe a girl will come to town and bring out the fun side of Nathan that Allie was talking about. I certainly didn't see much of one yet and definitely not with Elizabeth. Too much guilt and pain there for them both. Hoping season 9 is great for everyone. P. S. I too want to see Rosemary pregnant, but I don't want a million babies on the show. Clara had mentioned having a child soon, some ppl were mentioning Elizabeth and Rosemary should be pregnant together (in one way AWESOME), but Kavan said no way would production allow 3 sets of twins...even 2 sets sounds pretty rough. Not sure how to resolve that.
I wish that were true but she also looked after Nathan without his serge on after she “broke up” with him and before. Allie and Nathan carried all of Elizabeth’s really good, outstanding scenes. Considering this ending we got - those scenes were completely unnecessary. Someone else could have taken Elizabeth’s place in them but because the co-parenting is a good story they focused on it excessively. That also makes me think that Nathan was originally meant to be endgame. Bringing his kid into it that much otherwise would’ve been all for nothing...like it now is
hey there, thanks so much for understanding how we Team Nathan fans were misled most of the team Lucas fans are being really nasty about our grief saying things like "we are all baby and can't we get over it already, and of COURSE it was Lucas the whole time you were silly to think otherwise, so I really really appreciate that you took the time to sympathise with us and say that we had a reason to be upset. it is like a breath of fresh air. may you always be blessed Kristen.
Agree that they kept him awkward around Elizabeth until EP 11..... Then we saw the charm and sweetness come out and that moment now feels like a knife. We saw what the potential sweet banter and laughing between them would have looked like and it was incredibly sweet.... Grateful you are a Lucas fan who is being so kind to us TN peeps. It's been hard to see how yucky this is. Feelings are there for both sides and understanding and compassion seems to have gone out the window.
@@thelittlescenes1185 I have a strong suspicion that next year will be for Nathan a story line of "oh I THOUGHT I was in love with Elizabeth but really it was the guilt and shame. " To try and make sense of what the heck happened to this season. And if they do, that will be disingenuous.... I do believe Nathan loved her and I do believe she did not see Jack or that she was looking for Jack in Nathan.. that was NEVER how they portrayed it .... If they had.... We would have seen that and we would have been rooting for Nathan to RUN away from Elizabeth and find someone else.....
Dont forget nathan also was leaving and told her he was because there was no reason to stay. She was emotionally upset at that. She encouraged him to.find a reason to stay. He stayed for allie but also because he was developing feelings for her. He let that slip at the parade scene.
Excellent show ladies. Enjoyed your responses. I had some training with people dealing with grief so for me I understand the characters. 1) Lucas - He grew up wealthy and privileged but he wasn't nurtured. He was formally raised. Noticed he never got angry with anyone no matter what they said or did to him. Only saw him angry twice. When he found out Elizabeth knew about his parents break up and Henry when he told him about Christopher. So Lucas was raised to guard his feelings. He was a loner. 2) Nathan - He has had to deal with a lot. Lot of criminals in his family, death of his sister, then raising a high spirited child as a young single man along with the fact that because of an independent action he took ( which was noble ) he was punished and his job was given to another noble man who lost his life that lefted behind a family. The guilt of that had to be overwhelming. 3) Elizabeth - A lot people don't remember why she came to Hope Valley ( Coal Valley ). The person deciding on what assignment a teacher got had made advances toward Elizabeth and when she rejected him she was sent to Coal Valley as a punishment. To show her family she was serious about her profession she went. It wasn't that she didn't like being rich she wanted to prove she was a capable teacher. When she met Jack a lot of things happened before she really fell in love. But she had a morbid fear of him dying. Every time he lefted she was kind of hysterical. Then they married and soon after her greatest fear happened. Then she found out she was pregnant. She did not grieve healthy. Now think about both men arriving to town. Why was everyone concerned about Elizabeth meeting Nathan? Why was Elizabeth concerned about meeting Nathan? From the very beginning she was always going to Nathan, everyone saw love but she was seeing Jack. So many times I almost thought she was going to call him Jack. So when she thought Nathan was dead, she re-lived Jack's death. So when she saw Nathan she was able to do to him what she couldn't do for Jack and that was to hold him. That is why Nathan was the reason in her life. Lucas gave Elizabeth the best of both worlds without any pressure or demands. His background is similar to her upbringing. So he gave her things she missed in her life and she was always happy with him. Nathan was never meant to date her. They both were for each other the reason. She freed him of his guilt, he freed her from her grief. With Lucas walking away was when she realized she loved him. Go back and look at Lucas, he suffers in silence. He felt for Nathan and Allie, Henry and Christopher, the town by taking on a business that he had to pay out his pocket to keep people supported. Again he was alone. He fell in love with Elizabeth which for him a very different kind of feeling. Everything with Lucas was always her choice. Now all of them are free. Nathan from guilt, Elizabeth from grief, Lucas from restraint. Look forward to season 9. Great job ladies👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Also to add. They paralleled Jack and Lucas. 1. Both met in saloon 2. She met both mothers who shared Elizabeth's passion. And disaster struck while both mothers were there unexpectedly. 3. Both men were grand on romantic jesters. 4. Jack gave her a school, Lucas gave her a library. 5. Love triangle with Jack ( mountie ) and rich guy ( Charles ). She chose Jack. Love triangle with Lucas and mountie ( Nathan/Jack ). She chose Lucas. Charles proposed first, Nathan said I love you first. 6. Jack encouraged her to write and Lucas brought it to finish. 7.Jack always wanted Elizabeth happy at any cost and so does Lucas 8. Was always happy with both men 9. Both men kissed her hand and told her they were there anytime she needed them. 10. Both raised there hand up, Jack when he drew the Comet in classroom, Lucas in finale in the library. 11. Both men helped her with a student , Jack with Gabe, Lucas with Allie. 12. Both men went horseback riding with her. 13. Both men were interested in her on their first meeting. 14. Extra special arrangements for first date 15. Both men walked away from Elizabeth. So what I am saying it was always planned for Lucas to be her choice. Nathan was brought in to help her with her grief and his guilt. She didn't have to do anything for Lucas, she could be more herself and he went the extra mile to know as much about her as he could. Nathan is a great guy and I see the appeal but think about this; we all have family or friends or someone we care about who may be seriously ill or dying and suffering but we don't want them to go because of how we feel but dying would end their pain or suffering. So for all the people who are suffering over Nathan he will be okay because there are a lot more things opened to him. He can start a healthy relationship with someone who will see him for who he and not as a replacement. Season 8 dealt with mental issues that's why everyone was off. That's an issue not covered much. Go back and watch the season again with that in mind and you will be able to except the ending. Sending ❤ to all
I thought I wrote a lot. But both your analysis is spot on. Great comparisons and the mental health issues for E, L and N provided more clarity on the reasons for the final choice. I’m so happy Lucas was the clear choice from the moment they met.
I appreciate this insight. Thank you. From another perspective, there were certain people involved with the show that heavily hinted at Nathan the last three years (example: referring to Nathan as the tortoise and Lucas as the hare..... that's just one example out of dozens.) Had fans not had teasers, Nathan fans could have had an easier acceptance of the end. This is one of my biggest grievances, personally. Regardless, the show will move on as will all of us.
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast I hadn't heard from anyone other than podcast like yourself. I based what I said on what I saw from the show. Nathan is such a great guy and he deserves to be loved by someone who will see him for him not a reminder of someone's past. He doesn't want someone who would remind him of his guilt either. The complaint that I had with Nathan and Elizabeth was he said he loved her and was going to fight for her but I never saw him take any action to achieve it. He could have asked her to go horseback riding which she loved. He could have written her a note all these were little things. With the dinner he asked her in S7, then in S8 he reminded her about it and told her to let him know when she was ready. Then came back same day to tell her he had to go out of town so they couldn't go. Then when he came back asked about it again and then threw the kids in with her so he kept pressuring her about it. Whenever Lucas asked her out he waited until she made the decision. Nathan wanted to do something but he didn't know how or what. We will see him make the proper moves when the right woman comes along. He deserves that I think.
@@joanjones6394 You have to realise that after he told her he loved her, she ran and kept avoiding him and decide to date Lucas.What do you think he could have done ? He gave her space and respected her boundaries,and the Elisabeth we knew (she is gone now)wasn't the kind of women to be pressured.Sending her notes and flowers would have been inappropriate when he knew that she was with another man.It is Elisabeth who needed to come towards him to continue the conversation she ran from, but she never did until she told him that she was looking for Jack in him😬 ,something i don't believe based on the previous seasons.
Thanks first of all for reviews of WCTH episodes. You gals are fun to watch and hear your perspectives. I was reluctant to watch WCTH after Jack died, but after seeing Chris and Kevin in Hallmark Movies before S6 started, I knew they would be great adds to the cast as love interests for Elizabeth. Nathan stepped into HV to protect Elizabeth and LJ out of guilt for his connection to Jack's death. This information and guilt became a wall in front of him (even Allie said Nathan was never the same after Fort Clay) so he was unable to open doors to Elizabeth. He never had a chance. So how could Elizabeth see who he really was when he was holding that guilt. In the meanwhile, Lucas was totally present when he was with Elizabeth. Lucas was valiant as he saved a woman from a burning building and the men to whom she owed money. He cared for Elizabeth and cared for all things Elizabeth cared for - he greeted Little Jack many times, bought the Library and took over Gowan Petroleum to help the City. The thoughtful outings they had - Elizabeth was radiant and he was smitten. The real triangle was E, N and Jack. Timing is everything. When E realized she was projecting Jack to Nathan, Lucas had courted her two and 1/2 seasons in. Elizabeth had feelings for Nathan but couldn't articulate what they were until Lucas set her free. She was then able to see clearly where her heart was and was ready to let go of Jack and the wedding ring. Rejection is brutal and she had to be honest with Nathan and wanted to be clear with what her feelings were. S6E6, from the get go, Nathan knew Lucas interest in E and told him he wasn't a 'right fit for the town.' But Nathan knew then her heart was with Lucas. Season 8 was hard to watch for both TeamLucas and TeamNathan, but for me, there were so many beautiful moments between Lucas and Elizabeth in S6, S7 & S8.The FINALE was a perfect declaration of love on the bridge. It was oozing with passion that had been built up with the hand-holding, the almost kiss in the rain, and the chair scene - and they didn't even have to say I love you. They knew what they meant to each other. Then the icing on the cake for their new declared love, in THEIR LIBRARY - fun, flirty and poetic. Each Heartie is different and we see love in different ways. Brian Bird said in another podcast on Monday, we need more grace with one another. I hope the Hearties will rise up to give more grace in all we encounter and for WCTH. Thanks for reading all the way.
Anamaria Cabato....love everything you said. Exactly how I saw the triangle working out. If we all think that Nathan had a problem with showing his feelings toward E....well, E had the same problem with both men because of the grief and tragedy she was battling in her life...I've lost my husband and it is the biggest battle you will fight in your life! But because Lucas wasnt declaring his love for her with boldness, he gave her a "haven of rest", so to speak and along the line....she fell in love with him, but it wasn't obvious to her, until he set her free. Then the flood gates opened....her eyes opened. Yes, Hallmark could have given E and N sometime together, but I think she was always attracted to one and not the other....that's the way it is when we are choosing a mate...we weed them all out until we find the one and some want to be suitors, we don't get involved with at all, except loving them as friends. I think she subconsciously did that. If you will watch E in S7 and S8 for sure, you will see she never stayed mad at Lucas long....she couldn't stand to not have him in her day to day life...Library scene is one....where he fell asleep there and E walked in.... the time L read her manuscripts and she wasn't happy with his advice...etc.. Lots blessings to all...I am so glad we have Nathan and Lucas in WCTH....love them both.
@@mariejames7990 Lucas too had his issues. So all three had issues they were dealing with and trying to navigate through it made the triangle so messy. I can't blame E's behavior because we deal with loss and grief in different ways and it took me over two years to find my joy again and clarity. I loved what you said about how she could never stay mad at Lucas for very long. Another sign of where the heart is. There was a longing in E's voice the day after she was hostage in the saloon. She first pointed out how his past put her and LJ in harm's way. Then the way she said "will you be there" (at LJ's Christening) to Lucas and her response was "gooood," it was so sweet as she really wanted him there. We could go on-and-on with all their moments. Looking forward to S9 and how they will bloom in love.
There's so many things that upsets me about this season/finale, and little has to do with the outcome. I'll just say this: Either they needed to end the triangle early on, OR they needed to make it way more fair for Nathan and actually give him a chance. You're right, it was not fair. We didn't get to see what a date could be like between them. Maybe we would have actually not liked it? I just feel like Team Nathan was USED. That's what makes me bitter.
I think that her being continuously resistant to Nathan pushing for a date should have been a major clue. I mean we can all enjoy subtle, knowing looks and moments here and there but they’re hardly the basis for a real relationship. I think deep down, so deep that she probably didn’t even realize it at the time, she didn’t want to hurt Nathan more than she ultimately would by beginning a romantic journey that she had no intention of seeing through. It would have been less cruel to TN to end this earlier but for some reason, they dragged it out and I definitely hate that you feel used because of it. 😍
@@taraz6786 I know she didn't want to hurt him, but her behavior was inconsistent (at least the way they wrote it). In season 7, she went to UC with Lucas, which was fine. But when she realized it bothered Nathan, she told him to stop shutting her out, and emphasize that "he (Lucas) asked". Which everyone took as a hint that she wanted him to ask her out. The next episode, Nathan works up the courage to ask her to dinner, and then you know what happens next... She thinks he was shot, and when she realized he was fine, ran to him and embranced him. So they had the opportunity to start completely fresh this season, she could have turned him down nicely from the beginning. But they didn't write it that way. They told us it was a triangle, and it was anything but.
Agree, my frustration has been we got two extra episodes this season and it just felt wasted. The 'triangle' could have ended way sooner and we could've gotten more time with the secondary stories that felt rushed or had more time for all of the deleted scenes and I mean no disrespect to anyone involved in the show I just don't really understand
@@aprildonahue1984 The two extra episodes did more harm than good IMO. It just dragged everything out, and plenty of things that didn't get closure despite the extra 2 hours.
@@taraz6786 Her being reluctant to go on a date with him also was taken as fighting her feelings because she did not want to admit her love for a Mountie again. When he told her he loved her the first time and he said I know you feel the same way too...the correct answer was NO, I'm sorry, but I don't. Instead, she said "I can't" which implied she did. When he was upset she went away overnight with Lucas, she said to Nathan...you want to know how that happened...he ASKED--implying the Nathan should do the same. So many things and add to it that the books the story is based on is all about a school teacher and a Mountie--they marry and they grow old together. We saw Daniel leaving the show as a little hiccup and thought it would then get back on track. I could have accepted Lucas if they were more considerate in how the storyline played out.
I agree with kaycee that the last episode should b handled more sensitivity... the ending looks like rushed and without logic... I m team nathan but I could've accept the ending with nathan if the excuse of Elizabeth to him makes any sense. After all these time she said she was finding jack in him? Who said that? That not a good excuse of rejecting him...everything could've good evn with Lucas and Elizabeth if the ending and episode have any kind of logic in it... thats all
They obviously dropped the ball on this " manufactured " bridge scene ! This entire sham of a so called triangle was an insult to the intelligence of the fans ( Nathan fans ) the company , writers, producers, and Erin all knew how this was going to end long ago , but they strung along the fans for 3 seasons and toyed with emotions and for ratings and it had nothing to do with the loyal fans ! Immediately after the finale there were people canceling their subscriptions and many others threatening to never watch the show again and that includes myself ! How do you disregard the majority of browser that wanted a Elizabeth and Nathan romance with a kiss , but instead they put on a farce and deceived deceived the fans ! We the long time loyal fans who have been on this journey with Elizabeth since that first stage coach ride towards Coal Valley , she is not that same wonder ful bubbly young woman we've grown to love but they have altered her character to become someone that lashed out towards good friends and easily gets offended and chose opulence and charm and. Flattery and surface tangible things over the simple things that " True Love brings " this is so disappointing and I will never watch it again ! Come next season there will be a " whole inside When Calls The Heart " ....us the now former Hearties, we turn in our badges and say farewell !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 absolutely agreed dear. I never consider Lucas as her potential. I could've accept hum as the man Elizabeth want to be with. But the alibi of Elizabeth made me questioning abt her views. I mean after 3 long season all she saw is him being a shadow of jack? Who give this kind of excuse. And after all these time. I can't blv she can't see past his uniform. I mean that's totally ugly and mean. Just this one scene made the whole season meaningless.
My sincere thanks to Kami and Kaycee for your very entertaining recaps of S8 episodes. The finale has been surprising hard on TN, me included. Nathan is a very well written multilayered character and Kevin McGarry pitch perfectly brought that character to life, very successfully evoking the same anguish, emotion that his character was going through, in his viewers. The pain in your faces was palpable, made me feel less alone. By the end of the finale, all I could think of was, how our collective heart was being torn apart like it was described in the "Not yet" scene. If you have any way to do so, please let Kevin know what a class of performer he is, and all the agony and heartbreak TN is feeling, is a testament of his extraordinary talent. TN really appreciates him. It will take time and talk therapy may be, but all of us hopefully will have better days soon.
Noble? Yes Nathan is noble, but so is Lucus, it seemed like Nathan was more closed off, more so than Lucas, Lucas showed his emotions in many ways, also Elizabeth comes from a polished background and speaks french & loves books as does Lucas, and WHY would she want to WORRY EVERYTIME Nathan would leave on a manhunt! Lucas is the best chose for her based on her lifestyle!
Is that what is really important ? Choose a man based on your lifestyle ? It seems superficial. Elisabeth came to Hope Valley to live a different lifestyle with all the challenges that it brings and we saw her grow all this years : her character has been created with that purpose. Now it seems that all that was in vain.
@@Aurora-ob9ix She was in love with Lucas for the man he was though, otherwise when he set her free, letting her know that there was no guilt or obligation towards him, providing her with a free pass, she still couldn’t choose Nathan. That is because by then her heart was already Lucas’s, it was too late. Honestly, it would have been easier for her to go back to Nathan, she’s done it before with Jack and that life would have been easier to fall back into, we saw how easy it was when she warmed Nathan’s serge and offered him Jack’s gloves, but she chose to walk into the unknown with Lucas. That’s how I know what E+L share is unbreakable, because she wouldn’t have chosen him if there was any doubt about Nathan.
@@taraz6786 Nathan was not the safe choice just based on what she said to him "it would heart too much if i lose you like Jack".She didn't conquer her fear,she went with the safe option, the man she thinks she will not have to worry if he will come back.There is no growth story after all,just an escape. I don't see a strong emotional connexion with her and Lucas,all is based on superficial things which are not what you need to put first if you want to chose a man : upbringing,books...but this is the story the writer have decide to tell. I will always be convinced that with Nathan things would have been more complex and more deep.
@@Aurora-ob9ix With all due respect, having things in common, a matching sense of humour and having values & perspective are not superficial traits. They are fundamental because when looks and the excitement of a new relationship fade, you have to have something that binds you together, a strong friendship with things and hobbies to share in and enjoy as a couple. I understand that you felt like N+E may have had more depth but it wasn’t shown at all, in fact their communication was rare and when we did deign to get it, it wasn’t cohesive, not to mention it was negative a lot of the time. Also I will admit both men were not safe because it meant opening herself up for heartbreak either way, but if she truly wanted safe, she wouldn’t have raced after Lucas the way she did, she would have chosen neither.
@@taraz6786 I don't say having things in common are not important.I talk about the other of importance of the reasons that make you chose someone : if you love books for example, you can't marry a man just because he also loves books,it is superficial.You choose the person you want based on something that will truly build your relationship and make it last : a common purpose,you realise that you have the same vision for many things and this person complete you.If you have the same upbringing it is not a bad thing but it is not what you need to look in the first place.
The writing of the last episode, I felt, negated everything that happened between Nathan and Elizabeth until that moment. Episode 2 Nathan said "I know you feel the same way I do", and episode 12, he's to Lucas like: "I'm not surprised, I think her heart always was with you." Like what? They couldn't have said that Elizabeth was just slowly falling for Lucas. Instead Nathan now suddenly knew it was going to be this way. NO. Nathan and Elizabeth could have had a very nice friendship. They didn't need to write Nathan falling in love with her, if they were going to go with Lucas. And again as Kaycee said, we never got the chance to love Nathan with Elizabeth. I agree Kaycee, I feel like the rug was ripped out from under me. I am flat on my face, in disbelief of what just happened. It was handled badly. And now Elizabeth is going to marry the rich white guy. Like Kevin McGarry said, he's too perfect. Something has gotta give! Or actually that's not true. He's not too perfect. He ran away at the first sign that his ego was getting bruised. I am getting tired about hearing about Saint Lucas. When Nathan was about to leave he had a legitimate reason for thinking of leaving: he got the promotion. And Nathan wasn't going to leave without saying a word. He was planning on talking with Elizabeth, except Allie beat him to it. Lucas was considering leaving because he didn't know how Elizabeth felt about him. And he wasn't going to say anything. AGAIN. It was handled badly for Team Nathan. I AM HURT. I AM ANGRY. AND DISAPPOINTED. And not to mention. A lot of Team Nathan fans have taken down their videos, have stopped making videos, have taken down fan pages. That reaction should say something to Brian Bird and the rest of the powers that be: this shouldn't have been this shocking or devastating to fans.
Mine sentiments too! Last week, I pre-ordered the DVDs for this season, after the show I cancelled my order. My finale is season 7. The reason is because I fell the same way you do.
I’m sorry, while I understand your frustrations and perspective, your assessment of Lucas is way off, like way off. He left once to sort out his feelings of jealousy which he was entitled to & was honest to Elizabeth about. Now instead of wallowing, he used that time to help school children by rebuilding the schools they had lost to a hurricane. He was brutally honest which I respect, declaring that he had lost perspective and that helping people provided him with better insight and patience. This is actually an incredibly healthy way to handle and combat negative and toxic emotions & frankly I think we could all learn from his example in that regard, especially when we feel down or depressed. Also he considered leaving in the season 8 finale, but he didn’t actually leave so that hardly counts but having said that, he let Elizabeth go and so it wasn’t about being jealous, it was about moving on and healing from his broken heart, knowing that Elizabeth was at least going to be happy even if it was without him. There was no bruised ego, he had an open and upfront conversation with her like he always did, he laid his cards out on the table and it was on Elizabeth for taking her sweet time to talk to him. He had every reason to think she was done, so judging him is kind of bizarre when he hasn’t actually done anything to warrant that kind of vitriol.
3. You said that you would have liked to see E longing for L, and honestly I would have liked to see her, too, pursuing him, longing for him. And you gave the example of your husband, of finding out that he is leaving. But here is the thing: Elizabeth did not have the feeling that he was losing L until the end of episode 11. He was always there, waiting for her. It was only in episode 11, when he let her go (by the way, another noble thing, just like N's convo with L in episode 12) that she had the feeling that she was losing L. And her face in that scene showed the same anguish that you said you felt with your husband. She was crushed. AND that helped her realize that she did feel something very deep for L.
You’re right. I probably should have clarified. With my husband, it was just the one man. In this situation, she’s trying to pick the man she can’t live without. I just never got the feeling she was longing for him, or that she felt a huge pull his way throughout the season. Obviously that changed in the last episode 🙃
@@kamiclements7456 yes and it’s weird to go from “feeling lost” to sooo in love in that bridge scene the next day. I’m inclined to believe some higher up forced them to change the ending right before filming episode 11 or 12. Otherwise they are just horrible writers or they just don’t care and thought they could pass off sloppy work because the hearties are so loyal.
@@kamiclements7456 Yeah, I understand. Because they rushed things at the end. L let her go at the end of episode 11 and then in episode 12 they squeezed too many things. They didn't have time to let the story breeze a little, to show how things finally clicked in her head in the end-L letting her go, on one hand and the episode with N and the uniform on the other hand. So in the end she told us rather than showed us how she has finally realized what was in her heart. But her realization was triggered in part by the same thing that triggered it in your case, I think. She really was extremely anguished when L let her go. Anyway, thanks for answering :)) It is nice exchanging views.
@@1370np But here is the thing, she has been falling in love with L for 3 years now, not in the last episode. And I strongly believe they made the decision early on in season 8, not at the end. I think TN based their conviction that E loved N, mainly on the long looks she gave N and how skittish she was around him. Because, what other intimate interaction has there been? They haven't even gone on a date. What meaningful intimate things they have shared about each other, what deep things they have confided in each other? You saw the long looks as a sign of love, and I believe that the writers let this issue ambiguous for quite some time, so that they could use this card if they decided to go the N route in season 8. But the love story that has been developed in season 7 and then in season 8 has been the LE one. If you could watch just the L and E scenes taking N out of the equation, you may see it as well, their love story is beautiful. But I don't expect you to leave aside everything you have believed in until now and see the LE scenes with an open mind. At least not for now. Because I probably wouldn't be able to either, if I was in your place. But maybe later, when things settle a little more? Hopefully
@@kamiclements7456 I went back and watched season 8 knowing she picked Lucas and could see her leaning towards Lucas. It removed the doubts it would be him.
I love all the input. You are SO RIGHT....NATHAN is great and he is why TN people I know are into him. It's not really the relationship w/Elizabeth in the long run, if you saw it, great...but Lucas was the build. I DO think they need to give Nathan a GOOOOOD person. I will be perfectly frank...Lucas is VERY MUCH like my husband. Looks, attitude etc... so I KNOW the man who loves, respects, and supports. I appreciate you adding your own personal affection to Nathan as the impetus for the connection. LOVE YOU ALL for being clear, level-headed & wonderful podcast hosts
I can't believe Elisabeth told Nathan she was looking for Jack in him,how superficial she can be to think that a man's job is his identity ? She doesn't realise that it also means all this time with Jack,she didn't see him,she was just seeing his uniform ? This is just horrible.Nathan is not Jack and the writers don't want to help the viewers see the difference : so disrectful to Nathan's character. When you watch S6 and S7 you can see that that excuse doesn't make sense : Elisabeth was clearly seeing him for who he is and she said and the beginning of S7 that she was ready for a change wich implies that she had let go of Jack. Now that i know they change the showrunner i inderstand this chaotic season wich don't fit with the others. Maybe i don't know nothing about storytelling but i don't see Lucas character in a leading role,things are a bit too superficial.Even if he sell the saloon and stop wearing suits and start washing his own dishes... ,i still don't see enough "weight" in him to be a lead. Next season they may change the characters to fit the narrative, and it is unfair to them and detrimental to the integrity of the show, Elisabeth is already different and it is a bit uncomfortable to watch. I also hope they don't plan to put Nathan with Faith,an awful idea : she is not strong and stable enough for him and WCTH is not a show where everyone is dating with everyone😬,they are destroying the purity of the show.They will have to bring a new woman in town if they decide to give him a love interest.The show is forever changed and they did this with some brutality and i understand those who will stop watching : the thing is the viewers showed such attachment to this show that HM thinks they can do whatever they want and people will stay loyal.
I agree 100% that they diminished her relationship even with Jack to just a uniform when she said she was looking for Jack in Nathan. I'm very disappointed with it all. Had they handled the triangle differently I might still be invested in the show. But no longer.. I feel this season was a disaster on so many fronts. I will hope for a bright future for Nathan and Allie, but I can't support a show that snubbed it's nose at over 70% of their viewers and how they could have shown an epic love story of the heart struggle to overcome the fear and loss of Jack by loving Nathan. This was my all time favorite show till they ruined not only what could have been a beautiful love story, but having all the characters struggle this season where they all seemed disconnected to who they normally are,, and then ultimately change a beloved Elizabeth to be unrecognizable. I wish it had been soothing to watch instead of full of stress and anxiety week after week. I have unfollowed most everything WCTH and won't be watching next season for the first time since the pilot and the series began. Love to all the fellow hearties who feel the same and are hurting and to those who are able to continue watching.
Agreed. That reason of rejecting nathan was mean and baseless. After 3 long season, what did she said as the reason of him not being a person she can be with? Bcz she always went on finding jack in him!!!!! I mean seriously? If she can't see nathan over his uniform, it's her fault. Not Nathan's. This one scene made the whole season meaningless and false.
You ladies were much nicer and more tactful in your words than me. I felt angry. I wasn't so much angry that she chose Lucas but angry because they deceived team Nathan on purpose. I actually realized in episode 10 how it would unfold and I was correct sadly. I just don't like that they strung us along for ratings and then broke our hearts without even giving Nathan a chance, he didn't even get one date and that is so unsatisfying after all the beautiful scenes they had together. They could have handled it differently with the same outcome and I wouldn't feel so sour about it. But, I'm angry at the writers for not caring enough about the other half. I am still team Nathan for I so hope he has a beautiful story line next season and still plenty of screen time. Kevin is too charming not to be in the story much now.
I feel the same way, Nan...I could have accepted Lucas if they bothered to spend a little more time in this convoluted season to make it make more sense. This would have been much easier to swallow if she at least gave Nathan a fighting chance, and they had a couple of dates together.
@@lauriehaggith6297 That's not absolutely true ! It would have been more credible and easier to accept that reasoning had they not put her into many scenes " where she would be staring at Nathan in a way that showed love and her running into his arms , and for her to say " stop shutting me out " .... If anyone tries to justify this is just ludacris ! Hallmark just dropped the ball on this debacle of a so called triangle , and it's unacceptable how they cared nothing about the team Nathan fans , and all about the team Gambler fans, and that's why some quickly canceled their subscriptions and a lot are saying that they are done with the show , myself included !
I am so angry at Hallmark for dismissing our feelings after leading us on this whole season. I could definitely accept Lucas with Elizabeth, but I wish they had done it with more consideration for Team Nathan fans. What was the blindfold about--she was projecting Jack onto Nathan even though she was blindfolded? I call BS...This finale felt like they tossed a coin in the air, and Nathan lost.
I think the blindfolded scene was as much for TL as it was for TN because while she felt comfort in Nathan’s hands, her wide smile and excited sigh in breathing out Lucas’s name was just as impactful. She wanted desperately for it to be him & that’s why Lucas laughed about it, because they are much more honest & communicative with each other & that is an asset in any healthy relationship. They are more often than not, on each other’s wavelength.
@@taraz6786 Sorry, I never saw E and L as honest and communicative. I saw Lucas as pouty and avoiding the unpleasant conversations rather than bringing them up--like when he left HV for 2 months, and he jumped on Elizabeth and asked what did she know about love, and all the frowns when he saw her looking at Nathan.
@@alicepahler7610 He wasn’t pouty and he left to help friends build a school that was leveled in a hurricane, he left to gain perspective and help people and there is NOTHING wrong with that. He was honest about his feelings and the reason he left with Elizabeth, because they have an honest and open relationship. They always talk through things, even their most difficult and negative emotions which is key to any successful relationship. Also he apologized for his outburst but it was raw for him, it was his family and his parents marriage, I don’t blame him for being hurt. At least he doesn’t yell at her like she’s a child which is what Nathan did. I find that disrespectful, because she’s a grown woman and Nathan was quite condescending and rude. As for looking at her & Nathan, Nathan did the EXACT same thing, he was always watching E+L them when they were together. 🙄 Not to mention Elizabeth used to watch both of them equally and you didn’t mention her or Nathan doing it. You can’t pick on one character for doing exactly what the other characters are doing, that makes no sense. 😂
@@taraz6786I respectfully disagree. I guess we see what we want to see. I really feel that Nathan was supposed to be the choice, and midway through, they changed their minds--and that is the only explanation that explains why this finale does not make sense.
Im not a team lucas or team Nathan fan, and went into seasons 6-8 with an open mind and im sorry but it was obvious from the beginning to the end that it was going to be lucas all the signs were there you just had to actually pay attention.
I’ve watched this show since the pilot but I won’t be watching season 9. The main reason is not just that she chose Lucas but in the treatment of Nathan. When Jack died I was devastated but the beautiful writing made up for it. At this point I like the character of Nathan way more than Jack. The only thing that would have made sense after Nathan being degraded all season was for him to end up with Elizabeth. Now the main themes of season 8 - Fighting for Love - Facing Your Fear - mean absolutely nothing. I’m 100% Team Nathan and I think Kevin McGarry is the best actor on the show. But if Lucas had gotten the same treatment this season I would have been upset as well. I’ve enjoyed all of your podcasts and interviews and wish you the best!
Wendie, absolutely ! They had us to believe that there might be a chance for Nathan to win her heart in the end but to end it the way that wrote it was playing on the intelligence of the viewers ! She had plenty of time to tell Nathan but she continued on with the game and that look in Nathan's eyes resembled someone looking at a corpse , someone that died ! That scene broke the hearts of many long time loyal fans and though they will try and blow it off as " it's just a tv show " well tv shows depicts and reflects real life , and in real life some broken hearts might never mend ! This entire couple if seasons was an altering of things and it's not the viewers fault that the actor that played Jack left , so in order to. fill that void , they took something beautiful and tore it apart , and now that once wonderful show to many of us disheartened fans, for us that has now been destroyed ! The canceling of subscriptions and the many that felt let down and disrespected. will walk away from the show forever ! Sad and unfortunate that they did this to a wonderful show ! They never gave Nathan a chance at romance , and what ever happened. " all is fair in love and war " ....it was a farce to even put " Love is worth fighting for " into the .mix because now none of that makes any sense ! So long WCTH !
4. It is very true that in a lot of E and L scenes there were a taint. Either because E was guarded or because N had to come up in the scene also and E had to look troubled at him. But (leaving aside the fact that it was probably done just to drag the damn triangle and to create tension :)) I leave to your consideration also the following: the whole idea was that E was not yet ready to leave J behind and commit herself to love again. This is why she was guarded. But, despite of this, if you rewatch the scenes, this time knowing the result, you can see how she fully smiles when she is with L, lots of time. How things he says impact her and make her watch him very deeply, all of a sudden, how she clearly is attracted to him (the scene with the rain, the scene in his office, plus the Dangerous Liaisons from season 6 and another one with the books in season 7), how despite being still afraid to move forward she makes little steps toward L every episode (until Florence party, that is). Anyway, I don't want to say much more. I understand that right now you probably feel too dissappointed to want to consider these aspects, but I found you very open to discussion, and your convo helped me better understand your side of the story, so I wanted to leave this food for thought for your later consideration. Also, as a last consideration, I can see why you consider L stiff and he definitely is guarded. But he is also a very sensitive and gentle soul, and I think he has proven it this season (being so affected by what happened to his parents, to Henry and suffering silently and unresentfully with everything that E has made him pass through). And I think that E makes him open up and it will be interesting to see more of this dynamic in season 9, and to see him open up more. Anyway, all the best to you, and after a while, if you feel like it, maybe you want to watch some videos called Lucas and Elizabeth part 1, part 2.. up to 7 now. It is their story concentrated and it may help you see what we have seen. I will also try to give a shot to the EN videos
All the team Nathan fans were trying to say was what we all felt in our own respective ways , and it's like two rams running into.each other with one winning the challenge vying for the ewes affection ! The team gambler fans are elated and are feeling good that their guy has won and so they should because had Nathan won we'd be feeling elated as well ! Now let's take a look , a keener look.without letting our biases and partiality come into play ! The premise of the books by MS Oke, was initially about a schooll teacher and a Mountie , and not a gambler ! The gambler fans says that " shes already done the Mountie thing as if it were a job or some project " Mountie thing SMH ! This is first from a book series, made into a tv series and it in the beginning actually captivated many viewers ! Every One would wait anxiously for another episode and a new season , and I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it from the beginning episode but enough is enough ! It's one thing to manufacture something be sure its their show but to deceive the many fans that loyally followed the show and of his because of their faithful viewership that a lot of the good Ratings came about ! They dragged too long a so - called triangle which was not true , they used Mountie Nathan and misled us to have hope that Mountie Nathan just might have a chance after all seeing how one sided the do called triangle was , and that is something that is really unacceptable ! Each scene where the Gambler saloon owner was put into a serious situation , he would not directly hit it head in for long and he'd abruptly leave ! It's their man and the gambler fans will not even try to.see the insecurities he has because of seeing the cosmetic aspects and all.of the nice surface things ! Nathan and Rosemary made some very interesting remarks and do did his mother but no one seemed to pay any attention to them ! Or they only saw what they wanted to see ! His character has a past as we all do , but he has serious insecurity issues and he's like a grown immature person ,who seems used to getting what he wants and he doesn't take no.very well.! I cannot knock.his opulent lifestyle , nor hers but why alter things and have her. go right back to the very life she left in the first place ! It's useless trying to.get the team Gambler fans to see what we. see , and they seem defend the Gambler without trying tonite critical.thinking and not allow how they feel.over rule rationality ! All of those times he would be standing while looking from.afar at her and Nathan . that was pure jealousy and being afraid that she might tirn yo Nathan , and his questioning her Everytime was pure jealousy ! I e asked a bunch of females if a guy did that who was interested in you, how would you all access that ....and all.of them said that he should be secure within himself and be confident confident that he and her are tight with each other ! Who runs away to another state for 2 months without saying good bye ?.The team Gambler fans talk about Nathan , but at least he didn't.leave town instead of dealing with it like a man ! Erin said that the losing guy actually " takes it like a champ, which not turned out to be Nathan , but the Gambler was about to run away again instead of " in her words take it like a champ " ! There are many things that were " red flags " with the gambler but they were never addressed and to manufacture a farce is again unacceptable ! Thank you for at least attempting to try and understand why the team Nathan fans are not satisfied and not all but a majority will.no longer be watching ! How do you reward what they did ? Thank you for being level.headed and not using emotional.out bursts ! Have a wonderful day and be safe during these Pandemic times !
the writers shouldn't have made her say to NATHAN that she saw jack in HIM. because Nathan is not really like jack at all. Nathan is introverted whilst jack seemed more of an extrovert. Nathan had a poor upbringing in criminal family where he worked to pull away from that reputation whereas Jack grew up with a mountie father and was just following in the family trade as such. Nathan is a protector whereas Jack is an adventure seeker. Nathan is sensitive whereas Jack was what I will call a sensitive tease. Nathan was a love grown out of respect and admiration of Elizabeth whereas Jack was more love at first fight. according to this the writers had no reason to use the weak excuse of "I saw jack in you" and if elizabeth didn't know him well enough to know he is not like Jack then she haden't given him enough chance to have a good reasonable reason for refusing him.
Elizabeth's choice was disappointing. I never felt any chemistry between the characters. I hear people say of lucas made such a sacrifice when he let her go but they forget nathan was willing to give up the mounties for her. I dont find the Elizabeth and Lucas storyline drawing my attention other than a glance but I will be watching to see what happens with all the other characters. Maybe it's also time they took the main focus off of elizabeth and put Lee and rosemary as the leads (main characters) in this series. Jmo and we know what that's worth 🙃
I would love to see less of Elizabeth and more of the rest of the town but I doubt that will happen with Erin being a producer. I would love to see more of Nathan - this time with a good happy story since all we say so far was his pain. I was rooting for him but they never gave him a chance. I think it would be fun to see the Coulters adopt an older child - like 5-12 ish in age. It's easier for production too. Bummer for team Nathan.
I agree with you both. It would be great to see another couple as the lead characters, whether it be Lee & Rosemary or Nathan & someone. I read once this tv program was based on Janet Oke's novels about a mountie & a schoolteacher. Well the writers have definitely changed that path, unfortunately. So maybe this means it could be time for a new story line. Gee, I wonder if the powers that be ever read any of these comments from fans!
Ok let's hope the harlequin romance junior high crush nonsense is over and we get back to good quality episodes. It has fallen away from the family style story lines the last few years.
THANK YOU TO THE YOUNG WOMAN that pointed out what Minnie was dealing with it wasn’t her being bitter it was protecting mode for her child and Elizabeth not understanding she has made promises from the start not getting where the Canfields have been through like Erin said in and interview sometimes you need to stop and listen to because you may not understand what someone has been through ❤️that’s absolutely true
I just wanted to thank you for this recap - thanks for your honestly as I feel just as disappointed in the finale. I’m heartbroken. It’s been great listening to your podcast all season long - really appreciate it!! ❤️
I lost hope in Love. They had Elizabeth show some love language toward Nathan then boom she chose Lucas. I hate to be a negative Nancy, but I’m not even looking forward to watching next season and not sure I will be. So disappointed with the ending.
To be fair, they did the same thing with Lucas, in fact they showed them practically dating at one point, so their relationship felt more natural and organic, plus they were a lot more honest and open with their communication, which helped deepen their connection. However there are plenty of other characters to keep us invested and I really hope they bring someone better for Nathan, someone who only has eyes for him.
It's me again...Sorry, but I am really disturbed by this finale. I have been thinking and another thing that does not make sense to me is this. Yes, the first time Elizabeth saw Nathan on the road, she thought of Jack. The first time she went to his office to speak with him was tough, because she thought of Jack. After she welcomed him to HV, I never got that impression again. And, if this were true and she projected her feelings of Jack onto Nathan, why on earth did she keep telling him no? Jack was the love of her life, here was a man that she confused with him--she would most definitely want to spend more time with him and try to recapture what she had with Jack. I would. So that excuse doesn't hold water, in my opinion.
THIS RIGHT HERE!! My thoughts exactly. I can also see how the hug might be her wishing to hold Jack one more time, but I am not fully convinced this is the truth.
She said no to both of them at different times. Even when she was Lucas, she wanted to take it slow because she was never ready, not until the finale when she took off her ring. Also she never said she saw Jack in Nathan, she said that she was trying to find him in Nathan and trying to live out the life that her & Jack never got to live. It becomes so much clearer when you find out about the Fort Clay situation & how he was literally replaced by Jack, so it's good that she told him the truth FINALLY because she wasn't being fair to him. I do believe with time, she saw Nathan for who he was. It's not like she's blind, she's been his friend for 3 years. I think he just represents what she lost and frankly I can understand that kind of grief, especially when she was never truly happy about Jack's dangerous missions etc.
I could have accepted Lucas so much easier if they at least made sense of the Nathan so-called triangle. They never even gave him a fighting chance. It would have been much more satisfying if Lucas set her free mid-season, and she at least went on a couple of dates with Nathan. Where were the twists and turns, the back and forths. this whole season didn't make sense. There was one almost date where she got ''sick" on the steps of the cafe--that was just plain ridiculous. Hallmark can spin this any way it likes, but only one answer makes sense. This story was headed with Nathan as the choice, and midway they changed the storyline--way too late to make it cohesive.
After watching alot of different podcasts please take the time and watch episodes 8 & 9 lucabeth lounge. It shows what the writers were actually trying to convey to the audience. Cheers
Hi ladies as a Lucas fan I listened to your entire video and I must say im sorry and I love Nathan and look forward to his story and true love for him you ladies are a classy group not everyone can talk through the episode with so much tack and heart ❤️ I appreciate your opinions and it’s a delight regardless if we don’t always agree I hope you stick around so we can enjoy S9 WCth and watch Nathan move on and have awesome adventures while raising his spirited neice / daughter ❤️
I agree.. I didn't love how they did the ending. There was a better way to end the triangle and have everyone be happier. I can get behind E and L BUT they should have cut the triangle at the start of season 8. A) it would have provided E and L more time together as a couple, B) would have been more fair to Nathan.. I would have loved for N to have a relationship building with someone else. And we wouldn't have been so tired with the triangle.
I disagree with you girls. If you really follow the story Lucas was the endgame from season 6. She didn't like Nathan as a suitor to go on a date. Was just the uniform that attracted her. Look at her reactions each time she spoke to Nathan shaking her head. Sorry
I find the suggestion that TN were mostly hallucinating in thinking there was something brewing underneath between Elizabeth and Nathan, rather inexplicable. Didn’t the character Lucas himself think the same (e.g. observing from far just like us viewer) at the end of episode 11, when he decided to free Elizabeth? And doesn’t his conversation with Carson in the saloon prior to that, about “moving on”, reaffirms his thinking? I agree that there may have been Lucas centered hints that TL latched onto and TN may have missed due to selective thinking. But to suggest there was no storm gathering on the Nathan front, it was all a mirage, is not quite evenhanded look at the script.
Thank you for your belief that TN fans are not all delusional or nuts. The suggestion that there was nothing there is what angers me the most. Of course there was something there--the writers admitted they did not decide until midway into the 8th. season who it was going to be. If they had decided on Nathan, then all the scenes Lucas fans are passing off as nothing would have been the proof. And, for as long as I have been watching Hallmark, they have a formula--this ending strayed from the formula.
That is what frustrates me the most. Fact of the matter is they would not be calling this a love triangle if Nathan never had a chance. Sure things probably started hinting at Lucas more than Nathan, and I probably missed them due to selective thinking. However, I saw chemistry between them and the fact that TL and others are saying there was nothing there and it is just my imagination is frustrating.
Another good podcast, ladies. I did not even bother watching episode 12 based on what folks were saying and I am glad I didn't after hearing your discussion. I am not going to watch series 9 as I can't stand to see a further heartbroken Nathan after he was the underdog for two years and beaten down for this one. Hope Valley was a happy place to visit, now it is not and I am choosing to leave. Why would anyone want to go someplace where they know they are not happy, fictional or real. But, I will continue to listen to your dispatches (podcast) as I do appreciate your honesty and frankness about your interpretations and decisions. l am disheartened, and frankly a bit disgusted, by what appears to be a lack of planning and thought of how this season was going to progress, overall, and how each episode played out individually. Almost every episode felt like they were trying to tell too many stories and give us so much information that details or even conversations seemed to get cut!? (Maybe there will be deleted scenes on the S8 DVD, but I won't be purchasing it, sorry Edify). Many characters were out of character with Elizabeth herself being the worst offender (yes, I know she was dealing with things, but she was simply mean to Rosemary, cruel to Nathan, and yes, even she could have treated Lucas better). Series 8 was a soap opera, and a bad one at that...I watched many in the 90s, so I know what they are like. I can't imagine that a showrunner would go into production without a clear, cut, solid plan and then sticking with it. Boggles the mind! Imagine if Lee went to fill a lumber order with one, or Nathan and Bill went on an investigation, or heck, even Lucas needs to plan menus and order food to make his business work. Movies and some TV usually should have storyboards or some kind of idea where they are going, right? Most television series at least have table reads with all the cast together. It seems to me series 8 did not have any of this. Preparation and planning are needed to tell a good story, particularly a series. I didn't sense any in series 8 particularly from episode 12 which sounds more disjointed than all 11 previous episodes. Would I have been happier if they decided to tell a story of the actual life of a Mountie and a schoolteacher? Yes, of course. However, in spite of what Team viewers may have been on, WCTH series 8 was a fine example of poor storytelling. Plain and simple. Actors did the best they could with what they were given, but they weren't given good enough material to save this jumping shark.
To me Lucas made a lot of sense. He actively courted her. He helped her with her book, became invested in her writing. He showed he believes in marriage with how upset he was at his parents divorce. He was kind and patient and they actually had intimate moments together. Shrug. I'm happy
Lucas had never said "I love you " to Elizabeth.
You should be happy because they wrote the script to not have Nathan to have one opportunity to show Elizabeth true Love that comes from the heart , not trinkets and surface things such as Charm., Flattery , candle light dinners , car and horse rides and obsessively watching from a distance at her and Nathan , and etc . the team Gambler fans had it their way all along , do of course you should be happy they wrote the script to favor the Gambler ! Facts ! We too ( Team Nathan ) were loyal to our guy and since they back stabbed us , the only recourse we have now is to not reward lying and deceit and toying with us and giving us false hope that Nathan had a chance when actually it was all a ruse ! We will miss the " old show " because we invested time, energy, and were with Elizabeth since that first stage coach ride 8 seasons ago. , but they have altered her character and the premise of the show and they disregarded Ms. O's books that had a school teacher and a Mountie , not a school teacher and a Gambler saloon owner ! This is part of the reason why a lot of us will never watch the show again ! It was wonderful anticipating and being excited and anxiously awaiting each new seasons and each new episode ! It seems like when Jack died the soul of the show died ! This is not the Elizabeth that we once knee and loved ! And for those that say Its just a tv show. Of course it is and we understand that, we not stupid, but tv shows depicts and reflects real life, and in real life there will come disappointments and loss , but when it comes at the hands of lying and deceit, then that's when you know ....its time to let it go! Maybe Mountie Nathan will move on towards that little town nearby Hope Valley , the site of " When Hope Calls " and settles in a befriends the sisters at the orphanage, or maybe start a friendship with Fiona but not Faith ! Yes , we will miss it but we have returned our Heartie badges. ! It's been a pleasure going back and forth rooting for our respective teams , it should have been without the nastiness because we all are entitled to our opinions , and it's funny seeing the team Gambler fans bragging , and it's ok because had Nathan won , right now we would be elated having fun ! For many of us we're over and done !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 They already shared Mrs O's vision with Jack and Elizabeth and she told them not to repeat it. That's why we got this outcome because the creative team, Erin and Janette Oke, amongst other people behind the scenes specifically asked for it.
@@taraz6786 Not true...they went to her and she said she was ok with it. She never told them not to repeat it.
@@alicepahler7610 Yes she did, Bird tweeted that like them, she did not want to repeat the storyline again.
I am glad it was Lucas, i always found him and Elizabeth perfect fit... they just matched and fitted well. And the sparks and growing relationship since they met and they challenge each other. If u look at all the moments and scenes together it is like a mini own love story building to this point (and their own library, Lucas always putting her first and his patience and unconditional love). And i think Elizabeth lights up with him, Its her eyes. I look forward to season 9 seeing more of their courtship now that they have declared their love in actions and words.
I cant see what you are ALL so upset about..???!!!!Lucas has always been so much more interesting and has had so much more to give to a relationship , especially with Elizabeth!!.
And I guess you haven't realized how many people were rooting for Lucas.!!!!..Nathan willbe FINE..He has you 3 in his corner...!!! ☺☺Really ladies, Lucas IS A CATCH!!!...(Nathan is going to be FINE...)
It’s interesting. I thought Nathan was closed off and Lucas wasn’t. Nathan’s conversations with Elizabeth were cryptic, and Lucas was very open. Also, Nathan was always short and a bit angry, yet not willing to talk much. Very much turned me off. Lucas never spoke to Elizabeth that way. Plus anytime Nathan did something for her, it seemed reactionary or because he “should.” Nathan didn’t pursue her, so he shouldn’t end up with her. If we are saying the triangle went on too long, Nathan had plenty of time to do something. Elizabeth choosing another Mountie seems wrong. Jack cannot be replaced. I see Nathan as the one who needs to loosen up.
Once again, to elaborate a point I made earlier, we all saw S6-S8 through our Nathan or Lucas colored glasses, I think the show was written to do exactly that. What you saw as rudeness, many of us saw as angst and pent up emotions. Nathan had a lot of emotional hurdles to overcome, he tried hard to remain duty bound with a very burden of Jack losing his life as his replacement on his shoulder, but couldn’t help but fell in love with Elizabeth. He is not as sophisticated with his words and I agree that he needed to loosen up which he eventually did in S8, laid his heart bare and about to become a “lot more fun” now that the weight was lifted off him, but it didn’t matter at the end. I would also point out Kevin McGarry is an expert non verbal communicator on screen. There was a lot underneath that hard exterior.
I agree with you. Lucas courted Elizabeth and always put her first.
Since I am so angry at Hallmark, let me point out a couple examples of how sloppy their writing is through the years. Jack dies and what happened to Rip--he was never seen again--did they bury him with Jack? Lucas joins the show and someone asks him if he speaks French--he replies the only thing French about him is his name and it stops there--yet, in season 8, he is speaking fluent French. Did we miss the lessons? When Elizabeth was helping Nathan look for Allie when she skipped school, she asked what she liked to do--he said climb trees, ride horses, catch frogs--yet later in the series, he was giving her his first horse riding lessons. Elizabeth projects her love of Jack onto Nathan even though she is blindfolded. They need to pay attention to their own show.
The dog that played Rip actually passed away between seasons. I believe there might have been a dedication to him in one of the credits.
Lucas also spoke French in S6 to his friend on the phone when he first arrived in the same episode he told Rosie he didn’t speak French. He was purposely keeping details about himself to himself because he was on the run from Amos Dixon
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast If there was, I missed it, and it would have been worth a mention on the show when she was writing in her journal, at least. Some of my favorite scenes was Jack talking to the dog about Elizabeth.
I also always questioned why Emily Montgomery is in the show since her mother/brothers are never seen or talked about since ages!
Also Molly's daughter who didn't speak in season 1 and who was Lucas talking to on the phone in season 6 when he said, "You were right, Hope Valley is the perfect town" perfect for what? And where was Jesse?
I loved it. I have been team Lucas from the beginning. I hate that it took 3 seasons to finish it. I like Nathan but only seen friendship and guilt when they were together. I feel the ghost of Jack would have followed them. I'm looking forward to his new storyline in season 9. I felt the ending was done wonderfully. Cant wait to see what happens next. So many exciting things to look forward to.😊
I really appreciated you guys being open minded about Team Lucas, it's extremely refreshing coming from Team Nathan members. I'm not saying all of them, but some of them have savagely attacked Lucas's character for some reason, apparently he's beneath Elizabeth, a liar, gambler, a shady character, I could go on, even though objectively Nathan has done some morally questionable things, as well as made shady judgment calls (i.e how he handled the whole Jack connection is one example, it really irked me that he has lied for so long and that he still didn’t tell her even after he saw her as a romantic interest, it just really cheapened his character for me, but I won’t go into that right now) and the vitriol that poor Chris McNally is facing is just brutal to see, not to mention extremely cringe-worthy. How people can't seperate an actor and a character is beyond me. 🤦🏽♀️Not to mention, the way they have dragged Elizabeth, some went so far as to call her a superficial gold digger who only chose Lucas for a comfortable life and nice dresses, even though Nathan is doing quite well for himself too at this point. 😕
Anyway I digress, I can understand the frustration that TN feel, I have felt this way countless times with other shows and frankly you guys dealt with it in a much classier fashion than I used to.
I think being on TL, I just absorbed what was shown to me. For example, Elizabeth consistently running away from Nathan and avoiding romantic settings and dates with him, as well as the whole Jack connection and him having lied about it for so long, all further cemented what I felt to be the natural progression towards Elizabeth & Lucas being endgame. Plus the amount of intimate scenes we did get between E+L really had us believe that they were the only possible outcome, otherwise why were we deliberately shown these scenes (in my opinion at least), especially since Elizabeth isn't the kind of person to lead someone on that much. Don't get me wrong, I understand the irony but the truth is her scenes with Nathan tended to be a lot more subtle and symbolic, whereas she is out here with Lucas in the library, fanning herself after nearly giving into temptation, so they were a lot more tactile. It became more and more difficult to see her disregarding that kind of intense attraction, beautiful friendship and potential for a romantic future, for what had just started to seem like a casual flirtation, from her perspective of course, not Nathan's. (Again that was just my personal opinion throughout the season)
Having heard you all out, I can definitely see that the E+L scenes could have been more personalised towards them and that Lucas could have been a little more fleshed out, although I'm still annoyed about his & Little Jack's scene being cut this season, where he bought and gave him a toy puppy that we later just randomly see him playing with.😒
I think the whole 'love is worth fighting for' is the mantra that both Nathan and Elizabeth stand by, they have that in common and if this was pre-Jack's death, I believe Nathan would have gotten a fair shot. Yet upon further analysis, I think while that is how E herself operates, she doesn't necessarily respond to it in a positive way, which is proven every time Nathan tries to push things further between them. She prefers or rather needs at this point in her life the 'love is patient' mantra, she requires someone who is a touch more imperturbable & even keeled and I think that is a product of her grief and the life she lost. It all altered her brain chemistry a little, like trauma and grief often do and therefore Lucas's nature was more appealing and something she desired for the next part of her life.
I do look forward to Nathan receiving a new love interest, someone who only has eyes for him and hopefully we can get better developmental scenes between E+L and LJ, which Chris also stated he wanted in an interview. I am also sorry that the love triangle dragged on for so long and that it wasn't nipped in the bud earlier so that we could see Nathan moving on and maybe befriending Lucas properly as well, (I've always thought that their friendship was a missed opportunity) because you guys are right, it did make it that much more heartbreaking when she ultimately rejected Nathan.
If you remember, Lucas loaned Nathan the $1,000. that time for his brother in law, helped him up at the oil rig fire, told him not to leave town--that it would be a mistake, and told him he had his back, so I definitely expect a good friendship with them in the future. Maybe Lucas will ask him for some pointers on being a good Dad since Nathan is experienced.
Lucas is such gentleman and attentive to Elizabeth’s dreams and aspirations. I hope that Elizabeth’s novel becomes a hit and a sell out success 👌
Ok. It’s a little scary here because I’m TeamLucas but here it goes😬. I’ve watched this show since it’s debut and I loved the storyline with Jack. He was her Mountie IMO from the books... For that alone I could never get behind a pairing with Nathan. I always felt like they were trying to find Jack in Nathan for Elizabeth and they are just two different guys. I don’t dislike Nathan but I could never see him with Her. Outside of that I never felt any real chemistry with the two of them. I feel as though Lucas was the best guy. Patient and kind. Also involved with her and her hopes for her future and his interactions with little Jack. Lucas is a great guy. Rushing off to save a friend we never met. Offering everything he had to save Elizabeth from the meanies. Giving Henry chances. Joining in friendly banter or conversations with others in town..helping people keep their livelihoods (His chef makes me giggle). All the while waiting for Elizabeth to decide. He loved her enough to let her go putting her happiness above his own-he broke my heart in that scene but she needed to hear it. I hate that the actor Chris is receiving pushback for following a script. I thought the writing this season was horrible outside of Joseph and his family and Henry and the possibility of Abigails return( Lord please let her return-like she’s the only one who’s ever paid to cheat her kids into college-she did the crime she paid the time). 😂🙄 I was beyond happy first when she told Nathan no because really this was drug out long enough and second when Lucas showed up on that bridge. For me it was always Lucas. But in the end it will always be Hope Valley. You’re not going to find a show like this anywhere else. It’s a magical place and I can’t wait until we get to go back there next year. 🙂
The character of Lucas and Nathan were written to be very different with individual admirable qualities, and different segments of the WCTH viewers gravitated towards each. To give an analogy, there were like the colors Blue and Red, both beautiful colors, but people has individual preferences of what they like the best. Attacking the actors for following the script or even for them to have their own opinions, make no sense. But I really wish in S8, the WCTH show runners baked in more on “Love is patient, Love is kind” theme rather than focusing as much on “True love is worth flighting for”, and gave Elizabeth/Lucas relation as well as the character Lucas better depth. Like you, I and many others here are following show since its inception but really got invested into a different interpretation of the narrative. As the hosts as well as many commentators here have alluded, that the triangle could have been more delicately handled since one of beloved character (at least by a segment of the viewer), never really was even part of it. The S8 storyline feels very unnecessarily unfair and heartbreaking to Nathan and TN as it was depicted, who could have been more gently let down. Most of us will eventually get over, but this is certainly the most acute heartbreak a TV show/movie ever caused to me.
@@nazmaferdous5772 Hi another TL fan here, but I just wanted to say you really expressed yourself eloquently and beautifully. I'm sorry about your heartbreak & I hope with time, you heal and come back to see more stories with Nathan, Allie & whoever else you enjoy on the show. 😍
If not, that's okay too, just as long as you're doing okay. 🥰
@@taraz6786 Thank you for your kind words.
@@nazmaferdous5772 As a TL fan I definitely agree! This was really based on individual's qualities. For example, I gravitated toward Lucas because I like men who primarily start their own thing, like the theater, well-read or at least love books, food, etc. And a guy who's going to patient with me because I'm a klutz at times, would be nice. While men like Nathan (think cops, firefighters, etc.) I find noble or awesome, or guys who adopt kids, etc. the previous appeals to me more.
@@tatijoie I can see patience, literary impulses being the most admirable qualities for many people. I personally really appreciate qualities such as service (even at the cost of their own life), passion, conviction, courage etc., some of which I wish I possessed. As far as being well read and well travelled, I LOVE anyone with an intellectual capacity and mind shaped by extensive reading and traveling. Nathan was not well travelled (he, like most of us did not have the wealthy upbringing that would have afforded opportunity to travel, can't hold it against him), probably does not know the difference between French and Italian wine, agreed, but I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that the character Nathan was not a reader and/or did not have a sharp mind or intellectual capacity. Sure, Nathan did not have a editor for a mother (most of us didn't) and the poetic verses were not ready at his fingertips. but he was a decent reader as evidenced in the scene between him and Rosemary in the library and from the wooden plank he made as a present for Elizabeth. He also valued writing as evidenced in his enthusiasm and encouraging words for Allie and Elizabeth regarding their own writing as well as frequent visit to the library. This was a classic example of a case that caused Nathan to blurt out “She has got to know me” and Elizabeth never really got or tried to know all these different colors in Nathan beside his red uniform. As for sharp mind or intellectual capacity, there is a wide definition for that. Lots of investigation Nathan does, requires very sharp mind, careful execution, observation and intellectual ability to connect the dots (We saw that trait in character Jack as well). My view is that a conversation with character Nathan would be just as intellectually stimulating as a conversation with character Lucas, yes these would be interesting in different ways, but interesting and stimulating nonetheless.
Whatever the outcome, thank you to the entire WCTH team for working through a worldwide pandemic to bring us a wonderful season, filled with new characters and wonderful stories. I can’t imagine having to take numerous nose swabs a day, working in pods with masks all day and some who live in the states being away from their families for months. Kudos to them.
I just want to say that I was for Lucas from the start because i didnt think it would be healthy or realistic for Elizabeth to marry another Mountie after all that she went through (Jacks father died young as well and then Jack and also the time he had to leave to go an fight...uts a very hard life) I dont feel she would have chosen that risky life for her son and that she was very deliberate about not getting involved with Nathan especially after the ending of season 7 reminding her of what is at stake.
Having said that I totally agree that the triangle was handled badly and they they needed to show more depth in her relationship with Lucas. They had so many opportunities to discuss important issues and seek each others counsel like they did in season 7 and they just didnt do it. I feel that people would have been more accepring of the outcome if we saw that depth. (I do think it was illustrated better in season 7 and that Lucas was more fun and loose)
On a more shallow note...i want his dimples back!!!!!! Too much beard!!!!
And for all the hearties that are upset that they didnt stay true to the books...fyi in the third book she marries Jack and leaves hope valley and her teaching position to go a very remote village up north where the only acquaintances she had were non english speaking natives. She doesnt even teach up there! So they havent been true to the books for a long time!!
Why not invite some TL speakers to hear their view as well? I am sorry that TN are so disappointed about the outcome; however, I am happy that the show goes on. Lucas is really very compatible with Elizabeth. He loves her more than he loves himself. That is the most admirable trait a girl can ask for in a man.
We pre-planned all of our guests this season and have had a few of our Lucas-fan friends on in previous episodes; not to mention that many times, we haven't known what side our guest prefers until pre-recording.
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast See you pre-plan your podcast too and stick to it ;)
The aspect that I’m struggling to wrap my heart around the most is Elizabeth saying to Nathan, “I was trying to replace Jack with you.” I felt like it negated everything good about their interactions in Seasons 6 & 7, which by the way were very positive and Elizabeth was enjoying herself. She encouraged him to ask her out. Until the shooting incident, she was happy to be around Nathan. Not only that, but in Season 8, she was the one seeking him out and demanding information. Nathan left her alone after Episode 2, but she kept going to him.
Nathan and Jack are not, were not, and never will be the same person!!! But that’s what TPTB settled on, so Elizabeth said it. How disappointing. That’s like saying all doctors are the same, or all soldiers, or all policemen. DISRESPECTFUL!!!
The “I saw Jack in you” line was completely unnecessary for her to say to Nathan, even if it’s true. Nathan knew she was dating Lucas, and Nathan did not know that Lucas had set her free. So, all she needed to say to Nathan was, “Thank you for caring about me, but I am not in love with you.” Or, “I have examined my feelings and discovered I’m in love with Lucas.” Nathan would have accepted that; it’s logical. But instead, in the name of the writers attempting to appease the fans, Elizabeth had to twist the knife further in and say, “I was trying to replace Jack with you.” Even though Nathan already feels terrible that Jack went on the training mission and “died in his place.” She meant to be kind, but it came across like, “I wanted my husband back so I kept looking at you, but I’ve let him go now, so you need to go too.” How awful for Nathan to hear that “I only hung on to you as a reminder of Jack, not for your own self.” It was not necessary for Elizabeth to bring up Jack to justify choosing Lucas. As it was, she doubled the heartbreak by shoving that painful reminder back in Nathan’s face.
Lucas deserved better character development as the endgame choice. Such as, Lucas being injured from the explosion and Elizabeth being there for him as he recovered. Lucas deserved more. Nathan deserved more. But sadly things changed too often for that to happen, so we’re left with this.
Thanks Kami, Kaycee, and Sarah for the calm way you expressed your thoughts, including your disappointments. Hugs to you as you continue to process.
I really want Nathan to tell her that I thought I loved you because I felt guilty, but once you freed me from that guilt, I realized I just want to be friends.
I don't think Nathan loves her because of his guilt. I think he loves her because of their interactions over time. I think his love is pure and has nothing to do with guilt. He didn't want or plan on falling in love with her, but he did.
He should not tell her anything that's not truthful. Other than his heartbroken expression, we don't know what he's thinking right now. Who knows. They could have him say anything they choose next season. It will be interesting where they take things from here. Lots of unknowns.
Pppsss...The other thing ladies...You don't know what being a young widow is like.
I do!!!..to expect there to be an easy emotional reentry into love after a wonderful marriage is something I hope that you never have to experience..Elizabeth was doing the best that she could!!....Please don't speak so critically about something that is very painful and difficult and yes awkward...
As a TL fan, I'd love to see a podcast or IG live with people from both teams and just chat because right now it's sadly kinda divisive.
I guess it was like two different movies because I felt like there were so many clues with her feelings for Lucas. If she had chosen Nathan, I probably would have felt like Nathan fans feel now. I really felt all signs were leaning towards Lucas.
I believe I know what you mean. I love recaps and podcasts, but honestly since so many were heavily weighted with people pulling for Nathan. It seemed to me they did not prioritize huge scenes with Lucas, and gushed over Nathan scenes that seemed very small to me. Sometimes it definitely felt like I watched a different episode or at least a partially different one from what was discussed. I think ppl were very much seeing what they wanted to see in what was being shown.
And I say that about me too because those scenes that whipped up some fans into almost a frenzy registered almost not at all with me. It was like we all watched somewhat with blinders on.
My fear that Nathan was the end game and always waiting for that shoe to drop really affected my enjoyment of what really was (to me) great Lucas/Elizabeth interaction all season. I am dying to re-watch the season from episode 1 and hopefully pick up on many things I missed the first time.
@@auntkristen3751 I think the biggest reason the viewers believed it would be Team Nathan (myself, anyway) was based on the books--it was always about a Mountie and a school teacher in all the books. I believed that all the way up to the episode of the warming of the serge--then I got a knot in my stomach thinking this is not what I think it is going to be. My complaint is that for an extended season they could have put a lot more consideration into letting down Team Nathan fans. It took forever to get to the finale, and in my opinion, none of it made sense the way they rushed it.
@@alicepahler7610 I get what you are saying about the books. I think I just feel less tied to them personally. Once Jack died, to me all that story was out the window and I didn't want to see a redo.. A lot of ppl went into the triangle predisposed to be Team Nathan because he was a mountie (and I mean before we knew much about either guy just gut reaction). I honestly think Lucas is a better guy for Elizabeth based on what they have shown us since, but I can admit I was predisposed NOT to be Team Nathan from the beginning because I didn't want another teacher/mountie story. It had already been done beautifully, and I didn't want it messed with.
I agree with you that it was all extended way too long and resolved too quickly for how invested fans were. They should have resolved Nathan sooner and they should have shown more signs of what was coming. I'm genuinely sorry for anyone disappointed in the ending. Hoping for amazing stories in Season 9
To be completely honest, a lot of Team Nathan fans had high hopes because there were certain people involved with the show that heavily hinted at Nathan the last three years (example: referring to Nathan as the tortoise and Lucas as the hare..... that's just one example out of dozens.) Had fans not had teasers, Nathan fans could have had an easier acceptance of the end. This is one of my biggest grievances, personally.
As far as Lucas/.Nathan is concerned, I watched with a critical eye and there were times that I was frustrated with Nathan, despite being a fan of his character. And there were a lot of times I rooted for Lucas because frankly, he was right in his actions, etc. I just wish that they would have given him more layers and taken the focus off of Nathan, especially now knowing the outcome. I like deep conversations, deep conflict that isn't surface, etc. in characters. Hopefully, the show gives fans that and develops Lucas' character even more so in S9.
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast I understand all that. My husband who because it was Mother’s Day sat down and watched the last episode with me said they need to make an alternate ending episode for Nathan fans. Lol. Cant do two whole shows but maybe 1 episode because of how many Nathan fans were invested.
I do hope they develop Lucas’s character. I would love to see a storyline involving baby Jack and learning to be a dad. Chris McNally has great hair. They need to let him wear it loose sometimes. Not so much gel. I do agree that it would have been better to leave more hints to Nathan fans that it would be Lucas. If the hadn’t put the few Nathan hints in the last few episodes it might have been better.
I loved the podcast, girls, very balanced and fun. For me it has been really surprising that some people feel so shocked by the ending, because for me the love story that has been told from season 6 till now is LE love story. But you helped me understand why you thought that N was going to be the one even when you yourselved admit that there wasn't actually any interaction between E and N, romantically. It is because N had more story this season than L+ he confessed twice to Elizabeth that he loved her + he always had to pass by when E was with L and L had to watch E with N + the whole stuff from thr last episodes (handholding and the rest). SO i get now, thank you for that. I also understand why you feel cheated, because you didn't get to see an actual romantic interaction between N and E. It was always teased. So I get that, too. Thanks for that.
But I would like for you to take into consideration also the following, now that we have a whole year until season 9:
1. You say that N is very noble and brave. And he is. But so is L. I leave for your consideration the following: he risked his live to save a friend (the whole incident mentioned in season 6, the reason he was followed by the bad guys), he helped build a school distroyed by a hurricane, he paid the workers out of his own pocket in order not to leave them on the streets, he was willing to give away all his money just to save E (also in season 6) etc etc
2. I don't think it is true that he hasn't had any interaction with LJ. He has had plenty of interactions with him . From saying "hi little man" several times, to shaking his hand, to talking to him, to giving him gifts. Not only the teddy bear which, by the way, appears in plenty of L and E sceens, including the last library one (speaking of subtle clues which could have turned out to be redherrings, of course), but also the dog toy with which LJ plays in season 8. There was a scene that they cut, with L bringing LJ the toy. And we have to take into consideration that L is a single guy, and for a single guy with no children in his care, I think he interacts with LJ quite a lot
The fans of the gambler ( his words out of his mouth ) are naturally elated their guy won , and though we disagree with the outcome , we can do nothing but stop watching the show ! Immediately after the finale was over , a lot of fans were disheartened and felt cheated , lied to , and taken on a ridiculous long drawn out ride ! When we pointed out facts about the Gambler , they claimed that we were the ones being mean and saying terrible things about him , but actually it was they that has made horrible references about Nathan ! When we said that his profession a Gambler was contrast to what she would want in a man , he is super jealous and there were many red flag moments they never wanted to address , watching creepy all of time while she and Nathan we're interacting ! To run away to another state because he saw her run into Nathan ' arms , and that is known as insecurity issues ! Always questioning her like she was his property ! Each time he was about to explode he tried to force himself to stay stoic and robotic ! There are no " Perfect human beings " but they wrote his part as if he is ! If This is what they are going to do , continue to show nothing but bubble gum teeny love , and no heated exchanges , such as she and Nsthan had , then it will.or has become boring and predictable ! It's a good thing that we are now stop watching because it's their show and that's not the direction we wanted it to him! We will miss it but why reward a slap.in the face ? We're done !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 stop saying we speak for yourself
I agree with e Rey think you sauce above. Then also there was the consideration of Covid and die rs were cut between Lucas and baby jack.
I listened to your whole video.
You all three admitted that you watched, I assume the three seasons, as Nathan fans… you preferred his Character.
I hope this might help you. Perhaps this break down of the three seasons might help you see it more clearly.
I would like suggest you go back and rewatch S6-8, without bias.
S6, was the beginnings of the romantic love story of Elizabeth, it was confirmed after Elizabeth’s conversation with Henry about moving on from tragedy. At the dance, we see her “looking” in the direction, if not specifically, at Lucas, she smiles, takes a breath and seems to need to get some courage, so she exits the screen to our right, the next time we see Elizabeth she is coming up behind Lucas to ask him to dance. The cliffhanger was the glance over to see a eerie shot of Nathan at the dark exit, and him turn and walk out. If Elizabeth’s look had been about Nathan, she would have excused herself from Lucas and went after Nathan (similar to when she saw Lucas and his mother in S8 and told Nathan she did not feel well and ask him to walk them home)… she did not. Elizabeth returned her gaze and smile to Lucas and kept dancing. There was plenty of flirting going on in scenes with E&L in S6. However, it was light, and Lucas NEVER DEMANDS ANYTHING of Elizabeth.
In S7, the scene in Union City began and spelled out Lucas’ intentions of THE THEME that he would ”Wait, Patiently” for the woman he loved, Elizabeth. … and Elizabeth, even VERBALLY asks him, “so you are going to be… patient, like your Father.”, asking Lucas for confirmation on his his intent, when he once again verbalized it back to her. Again, plenty of flirting going on in S7, as well as Lucas supporting and encouraging Elizabeth’s dream of becoming a writer. As well as Elizabeth supporting and encouraging Lucas with his problems with Henry and the oil company. They were BOTH engaging in each other’s private lives. In the end they BOTH take each other’s “support and encouragement” to step out of their comfort zones… Elizabeth with taking a risk and becoming an author of a Novel. Lucas in risking he money and reputation in saving Henry and the oil company from bankruptcy, but on a larger scale, he saved the many men and the families that looked to Gowen Petroleum for their livelihood, and was a major part of employing, keeping, and progressing, the town of Hope Valley. Again, there was many moments of un-pressured flirting, supporting and encouraging… by both Elizabeth and Lucas, towards each other.
S8, Elizabeth shut Nathan down at the end of E2. Elizabeth tells Lucas “I guess we’ll just have to see,” at the end of E4. Elizabeth never changed her decision about Nathan, or Lucas…she was just still holding on to Jack.
But while Lucas “waited patiently” for Elizabeth to “feel totally comfortable” with moving on… Nathan pressured Elizabeth from the opening scene in E1, when he became persistent, bold, and outspoken.
*****
N: You know we uhm never really got to have that dinner.
E: No I guess we didn’t.
N: How ‘bout tonight?
E: Nathan-
N: Elizabeth I have been thinking a lot about you.
E: I’ve been thinking of you too. May I let you know later?
N: You let me know when ever you’re ready.
*****
JUST A NOTE: Nathan’s last line in this scene… as opposed to Lucas’ last line later on when he rides up on Elizabeth and Jack looking at the bunnies. Lucas only says, “Whatever you decide, I want you to be happy.” And Lucas NEVER pressures her throughout the whole rest of the season. He even goes to her and says…
“I want you to find your true love. And in order to do that, I want … I need … to set you free.”
Lucas was not “breaking up” with Elizabeth, nor telling her he was done, and giving up, or that he did not love her… Lucas saw that Elizabeth was being and feeling pressured by Nathan and her thoughts and moving on from Jack… so he just told her once again, as he said in E1….
“ whatever you decide… I want you to be happy.”
Nathan never tells Elizabeth he wants her to be happy… not in any of the 3 seasons.
^^^^^
BACK TO S8 E1 S1 with Elizabeth and Nathan.
Clearly Elizabeth had something to tell Nathan, but with his boldness, interrupting, and almost invasion of her personal space and staring her down… Elizabeth balked., and said nothing.
Then Nathan says, “You let me know whenever your ready.”
Unfortunately he did not mean it. Elizabeth saw him in town and at the school that same morning and never agree to go to dinner with him. Nathan then rides to her house again to tell her “I know I mentioned about about us having dinner but unfortunately have to ride out of town.”
NOTE: NATHAN NEVER ONCE TELLS HER ABOUT HIS ENCOUNTER WITH DYLAN PARKS, or who and what happened… EVEN THOUGH DYLAN WALKS RIGHT UP TO ELIZABETH AND JACK AND ENGAGES IN CONVERSATION WITH JACK, EVEN DOWN AT HIS LEVEL AND ONLY FEET AWAY. Nor does Nathan tell Elizabeth he goes to Lucas to get $. 1000
Nathan then returns the next day to Elizabeth’s house pressuring her once again for that dinner… when he had told her just the day before…
“N: You let me know when ever you’re ready.”
Elizabeth made an excuse about Laura, but again when Nathan persisted and said we can all go, a relief came over her face that it would be the 4 of them… no a one on one encounter., as she had experienced with Lucas on more than one occasion.
Nathan once again, at the end of E2 comes riding down the road, while Elizabeth was setting in thought by the pond, while on one of her rides. Her temperament was calm and wanting to tell Nathan something… But Nathan got down off his horse and just started in with his excitement and plans… and would not stop… he interrupted Elizabeth, got her flustered be his insinuation, and declarations…she said “I can’t”. She got on her horse and rode away, fast.
Lucas’ theme was “wait, patiently”… till Elizabeth was ready…. and was declared in S7… and verbally confirmed and held in many scenes in S8. Lucas let Elizabeth set the pace and tone, never getting mad, pulling back and refraining when he needed to… as well as when he thought Elizabeth was moving too fast, even for her self. (the office scene) Lucas’ thought were always of her, NOT himself, his feeling, or his desires.
Nathan’s theme was “be bold, insinuating, and declaring, proud and loud” … to a woman he had never even shared a meal with. No matter what her feelings were, and he did not once ask her., but his did tell her “he knew she felt the same as him”.
And Nathan kept doing it, to Elizabeth, to himself out loud in public while in a scene with Carson, to Lucas, and to Rosemary.
Even though every scene from S6-7, except there first scene together in S6….either was because of Allie, with Allie, or concerned Allie. And it was the same with S8, for the most part, AFTER E2. Allie was the reason that Elizabeth and Nathan even spoke, until the last maybe E11/12?
Fresh eyes, and rewatching S6-8 may shed some new light.
Also… Nathan has been lying by omission, and just blatantly lying to Elizabeth for 3 seasons… that said everything to me.
Thank you for reading my response.
So beautifully summarized! Thank you so much!
WELL SAID!!!! Faison you should consider writing fan fiction I appreciate your step by step recap of 6 ,7,8 Elizabeth journey of letting Jack go and embraced love with Lucas it was clear after UC none date lucabeth ❤️
This is so spot on! Thank you!!
Def still processing and still questioning the why. Like you I would have liked the triangle resolved sooner so that TN could start the process of letting go. Felt like they let a bomb drop and then waved bye and "see you next season.! ".
Just hard to swallow that she was desperately in love with Lucas after spending 11 episodes always watching Nathan ..... I really do want to know WHEN the writers finally figured it out..... Because I could see many unnecessary moments that just kept us TN HOPEFUL and not at all prepared for the fallout. Good on you if you were able to watch it more than once.... I could barely make it through the episode. I was just sooooo shocked and sad. . Worst way to end mother's day!
apparently they went with Lucas becuse they were tired of mountie storylines! i mean come on he's NOT JUST A MOUNTIE they need to stop comparing him to jack he's NOTHING like jack 1 he's introverted vs jack's extroverted 2 he's a deep carer rather than a light hearted teasing encourager like jack, 3 he's a father figure, 4 he's had a lot of family struggles, and his father was a criminal rather than Jacks honorable mountie father 5 he can empathise with elizabeth's pain 6 he can understand what Elizabeth id feeling before she even speaks,(like when she comes to talk about ALLIE and 1 he can tell she was going to talk about allie and 2 he could tell it wasn't about allie it was about him. 6 he is highly sensitive to the feelings of others, whereas jack was a bit more do the right thing regardless (ie. questioning abigail in s 1 ) 7 jack and Elizabeth were angst to love relationship, whereas nathan and Elizabeth always respected each other and then slowly grew closer. 8 he is quick to ask "whats in your heart" whereas jack would generally lift her up by a lighthearted comment or practical help. 9 jack was more of an adventure seeking type whilst Nathan is more of the Protector type.
I saw in an interview that they were well into the 8th. season when they decided it would be Lucas, and I feel the same way you do. I am so disappointed in Hallmark for the shabby way they treated half their viewing audience.
@@jemimapeach483 Tired of Mountie storylines--yet, all the books were based on a Mountie and a school teacher. I think Lucas has to sell his saloon and become a Mountie.
@@alicepahler7610 yes .... I keep thinking.... If they had just killed the triangle after fort clay reveal..
We would have had a few EPs to adjust... Before the hand hold game and before the wedding after moments, the serge warming. That's just three things they could have removed to help us stop hoping. ..
@@alicepahler7610 to me..... The writers would have been more wise to start the season KNOWING exactly which man they were ending the triangle with and then keeping to that choice. It would have made far more sense than what we experienced. In that lost interview Kevin did say there was no grand plan bit they were writing it and changing it as they went.... Not a smartove IMO...
I think, to some extent, we were all hoping for and pulling for the guy who is most like our mate/what attracts us. Nathan didn't do it for me, so it was easy to overlook the 'signs' the show was putting in that direction. Thinking back some were just straight up pointless/misleading for no good reason now that we see it was always Lucas. Why the blindfold scene? Why hold Nathan's hands with the not blaming him scene?? The season 7 finale hug and the warming the serge were obvious Jack references (to me), and I even viewed the looking at him when he was riding by so often in that way too--mostly her missing seeing Jack in his serge riding around town. But I am sure I at least partly saw it that way because I didn't want them together.
Team Nathan fans clearly saw it as writing on the wall, and having believed a triangle requires both guys to actually be in the running, they have reason to be upset.
I sympathize with the disappointment. Nathan is a good guy, but I liked him best away from Elizabeth too. He was awkward and wierd around Elizabeth (for reasons we now understand but it never changed even after thr truth came out). I honestly have so far liked Nathan's character best in When Hope Calls crossovers. That is when he appeared to be having the most fun... Then and when he was with Allie. Maybe a girl will come to town and bring out the fun side of Nathan that Allie was talking about. I certainly didn't see much of one yet and definitely not with Elizabeth. Too much guilt and pain there for them both.
Hoping season 9 is great for everyone.
P. S. I too want to see Rosemary pregnant, but I don't want a million babies on the show. Clara had mentioned having a child soon, some ppl were mentioning Elizabeth and Rosemary should be pregnant together (in one way AWESOME), but Kavan said no way would production allow 3 sets of twins...even 2 sets sounds pretty rough. Not sure how to resolve that.
I wish that were true but she also looked after Nathan without his serge on after she “broke up” with him and before.
Allie and Nathan carried all of Elizabeth’s really good, outstanding scenes. Considering this ending we got - those scenes were completely unnecessary. Someone else could have taken Elizabeth’s place in them but because the co-parenting is a good story they focused on it excessively.
That also makes me think that Nathan was originally meant to be endgame. Bringing his kid into it that much otherwise would’ve been all for nothing...like it now is
hey there, thanks so much for understanding how we Team Nathan fans were misled most of the team Lucas fans are being really nasty about our grief saying things like "we are all baby and can't we get over it already, and of COURSE it was Lucas the whole time you were silly to think otherwise, so I really really appreciate that you took the time to sympathise with us and say that we had a reason to be upset. it is like a breath of fresh air. may you always be blessed Kristen.
Agree that they kept him awkward around Elizabeth until EP 11..... Then we saw the charm and sweetness come out and that moment now feels like a knife. We saw what the potential sweet banter and laughing between them would have looked like and it was incredibly sweet.... Grateful you are a Lucas fan who is being so kind to us TN peeps. It's been hard to see how yucky this is. Feelings are there for both sides and understanding and compassion seems to have gone out the window.
@@thelittlescenes1185 I have a strong suspicion that next year will be for Nathan a story line of "oh I THOUGHT I was in love with Elizabeth but really it was the guilt and shame. "
To try and make sense of what the heck happened to this season. And if they do, that will be disingenuous.... I do believe Nathan loved her and I do believe she did not see Jack or that she was looking for Jack in Nathan.. that was NEVER how they portrayed it .... If they had.... We would have seen that and we would have been rooting for Nathan to RUN away from Elizabeth and find someone else.....
@@jemimapeach483 I am really sorry about anyone being nasty. That is inappropriate and should not happen!
Dont forget nathan also was leaving and told her he was because there was no reason to stay. She was emotionally upset at that. She encouraged him to.find a reason to stay. He stayed for allie but also because he was developing feelings for her. He let that slip at the parade scene.
Excellent show ladies. Enjoyed your responses. I had some training with people dealing with grief so for me I understand the characters. 1) Lucas - He grew up wealthy and privileged but he wasn't nurtured. He was formally raised. Noticed he never got angry with anyone no matter what they said or did to him. Only saw him angry twice. When he found out Elizabeth knew about his parents break up and Henry when he told him about Christopher. So Lucas was raised to guard his feelings. He was a loner. 2) Nathan - He has had to deal with a lot. Lot of criminals in his family, death of his sister, then raising a high spirited child as a young single man along with the fact that because of an independent action he took ( which was noble ) he was punished and his job was given to another noble man who lost his life that lefted behind a family. The guilt of that had to be overwhelming. 3) Elizabeth - A lot people don't remember why she came to Hope Valley ( Coal Valley ). The person deciding on what assignment a teacher got had made advances toward Elizabeth and when she rejected him she was sent to Coal Valley as a punishment. To show her family she was serious about her profession she went. It wasn't that she didn't like being rich she wanted to prove she was a capable teacher. When she met Jack a lot of things happened before she really fell in love. But she had a morbid fear of him dying. Every time he lefted she was kind of hysterical. Then they married and soon after her greatest fear happened. Then she found out she was pregnant. She did not grieve healthy.
Now think about both men arriving to town. Why was everyone concerned about Elizabeth meeting Nathan? Why was Elizabeth concerned about meeting Nathan? From the very beginning she was always going to Nathan, everyone saw love but she was seeing Jack. So many times I almost thought she was going to call him Jack. So when she thought Nathan was dead, she re-lived Jack's death. So when she saw Nathan she was able to do to him what she couldn't do for Jack and that was to hold him. That is why Nathan was the reason in her life. Lucas gave Elizabeth the best of both worlds without any pressure or demands. His background is similar to her upbringing. So he gave her things she missed in her life and she was always happy with him. Nathan was never meant to date her. They both were for each other the reason. She freed him of his guilt, he freed her from her grief. With Lucas walking away was when she realized she loved him. Go back and look at Lucas, he suffers in silence. He felt for Nathan and Allie, Henry and Christopher, the town by taking on a business that he had to pay out his pocket to keep people supported. Again he was alone. He fell in love with Elizabeth which for him a very different kind of feeling. Everything with Lucas was always her choice.
Now all of them are free. Nathan from guilt, Elizabeth from grief, Lucas from restraint. Look forward to season 9. Great job ladies👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Also to add. They paralleled Jack and Lucas.
1. Both met in saloon
2. She met both mothers who shared Elizabeth's passion. And disaster struck while both mothers were there unexpectedly.
3. Both men were grand on romantic jesters.
4. Jack gave her a school, Lucas gave her a library.
5. Love triangle with Jack ( mountie ) and rich guy ( Charles ). She chose Jack. Love triangle with Lucas and mountie ( Nathan/Jack ). She chose Lucas. Charles proposed first, Nathan said I love you first.
6. Jack encouraged her to write and Lucas brought it to finish.
7.Jack always wanted Elizabeth happy at any cost and so does Lucas
8. Was always happy with both men
9. Both men kissed her hand and told her they were there anytime she needed them.
10. Both raised there hand up, Jack when he drew the Comet in classroom, Lucas in finale in the library.
11. Both men helped her with a student , Jack with Gabe, Lucas with Allie.
12. Both men went horseback riding with her.
13. Both men were interested in her on their first meeting.
14. Extra special arrangements for first date
15. Both men walked away from Elizabeth.
So what I am saying it was always planned for Lucas to be her choice. Nathan was brought in to help her with her grief and his guilt. She didn't have to do anything for Lucas, she could be more herself and he went the extra mile to know as much about her as he could. Nathan is a great guy and I see the appeal but think about this; we all have family or friends or someone we care about who may be seriously ill or dying and suffering but we don't want them to go because of how we feel but dying would end their pain or suffering. So for all the people who are suffering over Nathan he will be okay because there are a lot more things opened to him. He can start a healthy relationship with someone who will see him for who he and not as a replacement. Season 8 dealt with mental issues that's why everyone was off. That's an issue not covered much. Go back and watch the season again with that in mind and you will be able to except the ending. Sending ❤ to all
I thought I wrote a lot. But both your analysis is spot on. Great comparisons and the mental health issues for E, L and N provided more clarity on the reasons for the final choice. I’m so happy Lucas was the clear choice from the moment they met.
I appreciate this insight. Thank you. From another perspective, there were certain people involved with the show that heavily hinted at Nathan the last three years (example: referring to Nathan as the tortoise and Lucas as the hare..... that's just one example out of dozens.) Had fans not had teasers, Nathan fans could have had an easier acceptance of the end. This is one of my biggest grievances, personally.
Regardless, the show will move on as will all of us.
@@HeartiesHotlinePodcast I hadn't heard from anyone other than podcast like yourself. I based what I said on what I saw from the show. Nathan is such a great guy and he deserves to be loved by someone who will see him for him not a reminder of someone's past. He doesn't want someone who would remind him of his guilt either. The complaint that I had with Nathan and Elizabeth was he said he loved her and was going to fight for her but I never saw him take any action to achieve it. He could have asked her to go horseback riding which she loved. He could have written her a note all these were little things. With the dinner he asked her in S7, then in S8 he reminded her about it and told her to let him know when she was ready. Then came back same day to tell her he had to go out of town so they couldn't go. Then when he came back asked about it again and then threw the kids in with her so he kept pressuring her about it. Whenever Lucas asked her out he waited until she made the decision. Nathan wanted to do something but he didn't know how or what. We will see him make the proper moves when the right woman comes along. He deserves that I think.
@@joanjones6394 You have to realise that after he told her he loved her, she ran and kept avoiding him and decide to date Lucas.What do you think he could have done ? He gave her space and respected her boundaries,and the Elisabeth we knew (she is gone now)wasn't the kind of women to be pressured.Sending her notes and flowers would have been inappropriate when he knew that she was with another man.It is Elisabeth who needed to come towards him to continue the conversation she ran from, but she never did until she told him that she was looking for Jack in him😬 ,something i don't believe based on the previous seasons.
Thanks first of all for reviews of WCTH episodes. You gals are fun to watch and hear your perspectives. I was reluctant to watch WCTH after Jack died, but after seeing Chris and Kevin in Hallmark Movies before S6 started, I knew they would be great adds to the cast as love interests for Elizabeth.
Nathan stepped into HV to protect Elizabeth and LJ out of guilt for his connection to Jack's death. This information and guilt became a wall in front of him (even Allie said Nathan was never the same after Fort Clay) so he was unable to open doors to Elizabeth. He never had a chance. So how could Elizabeth see who he really was when he was holding that guilt.
In the meanwhile, Lucas was totally present when he was with Elizabeth. Lucas was valiant as he saved a woman from a burning building and the men to whom she owed money. He cared for Elizabeth and cared for all things Elizabeth cared for - he greeted Little Jack many times, bought the Library and took over Gowan Petroleum to help the City. The thoughtful outings they had - Elizabeth was radiant and he was smitten.
The real triangle was E, N and Jack. Timing is everything. When E realized she was projecting Jack to Nathan, Lucas had courted her two and 1/2 seasons in. Elizabeth had feelings for Nathan but couldn't articulate what they were until Lucas set her free. She was then able to see clearly where her heart was and was ready to let go of Jack and the wedding ring. Rejection is brutal and she had to be honest with Nathan and wanted to be clear with what her feelings were. S6E6, from the get go, Nathan knew Lucas interest in E and told him he wasn't a 'right fit for the town.' But Nathan knew then her heart was with Lucas.
Season 8 was hard to watch for both TeamLucas and TeamNathan, but for me, there were so many beautiful moments between Lucas and Elizabeth in S6, S7 & S8.The FINALE was a perfect declaration of love on the bridge. It was oozing with passion that had been built up with the hand-holding, the almost kiss in the rain, and the chair scene - and they didn't even have to say I love you. They knew what they meant to each other. Then the icing on the cake for their new declared love, in THEIR LIBRARY - fun, flirty and poetic.
Each Heartie is different and we see love in different ways. Brian Bird said in another podcast on Monday, we need more grace with one another. I hope the Hearties will rise up to give more grace in all we encounter and for WCTH. Thanks for reading all the way.
Anamaria Cabato....love everything you said. Exactly how I saw the triangle working out. If we all think that Nathan had a problem with showing his feelings toward E....well, E had the same problem with both men because of the grief and tragedy she was battling in her life...I've lost my husband and it is the biggest battle you will fight in your life!
But because Lucas wasnt declaring his love for her with boldness, he gave her a "haven of rest", so to speak and along the line....she fell in love with him, but it wasn't obvious to her, until he set her free. Then the flood gates opened....her eyes opened. Yes, Hallmark could have given E and N sometime together, but I think she was always attracted to one and not the other....that's the way it is when we are choosing a mate...we weed them all out until we find the one and some want to be suitors, we don't get involved with at all, except loving them as friends. I think she subconsciously did that. If you will watch E in S7 and S8 for sure, you will see she never stayed mad at Lucas long....she couldn't stand to not have him in her day to day life...Library scene is one....where he fell asleep there and E walked in.... the time L read her manuscripts and she wasn't happy with his advice...etc.. Lots blessings to all...I am so glad we have Nathan and Lucas in WCTH....love them both.
@@mariejames7990 Lucas too had his issues. So all three had issues they were dealing with and trying to navigate through it made the triangle so messy. I can't blame E's behavior because we deal with loss and grief in different ways and it took me over two years to find my joy again and clarity.
I loved what you said about how she could never stay mad at Lucas for very long. Another sign of where the heart is. There was a longing in E's voice the day after she was hostage in the saloon. She first pointed out how his past put her and LJ in harm's way. Then the way she said "will you be there" (at LJ's Christening) to Lucas and her response was "gooood," it was so sweet as she really wanted him there. We could go on-and-on with all their moments. Looking forward to S9 and how they will bloom in love.
There's so many things that upsets me about this season/finale, and little has to do with the outcome. I'll just say this: Either they needed to end the triangle early on, OR they needed to make it way more fair for Nathan and actually give him a chance. You're right, it was not fair. We didn't get to see what a date could be like between them. Maybe we would have actually not liked it? I just feel like Team Nathan was USED. That's what makes me bitter.
I think that her being continuously resistant to Nathan pushing for a date should have been a major clue. I mean we can all enjoy subtle, knowing looks and moments here and there but they’re hardly the basis for a real relationship.
I think deep down, so deep that she probably didn’t even realize it at the time, she didn’t want to hurt Nathan more than she ultimately would by beginning a romantic journey that she had no intention of seeing through.
It would have been less cruel to TN to end this earlier but for some reason, they dragged it out and I definitely hate that you feel used because of it. 😍
@@taraz6786 I know she didn't want to hurt him, but her behavior was inconsistent (at least the way they wrote it). In season 7, she went to UC with Lucas, which was fine. But when she realized it bothered Nathan, she told him to stop shutting her out, and emphasize that "he (Lucas) asked". Which everyone took as a hint that she wanted him to ask her out. The next episode, Nathan works up the courage to ask her to dinner, and then you know what happens next... She thinks he was shot, and when she realized he was fine, ran to him and embranced him. So they had the opportunity to start completely fresh this season, she could have turned him down nicely from the beginning. But they didn't write it that way. They told us it was a triangle, and it was anything but.
Agree, my frustration has been we got two extra episodes this season and it just felt wasted. The 'triangle' could have ended way sooner and we could've gotten more time with the secondary stories that felt rushed or had more time for all of the deleted scenes and I mean no disrespect to anyone involved in the show I just don't really understand
@@aprildonahue1984 The two extra episodes did more harm than good IMO. It just dragged everything out, and plenty of things that didn't get closure despite the extra 2 hours.
@@taraz6786 Her being reluctant to go on a date with him also was taken as fighting her feelings because she did not want to admit her love for a Mountie again. When he told her he loved her the first time and he said I know you feel the same way too...the correct answer was NO, I'm sorry, but I don't. Instead, she said "I can't" which implied she did. When he was upset she went away overnight with Lucas, she said to Nathan...you want to know how that happened...he ASKED--implying the Nathan should do the same. So many things and add to it that the books the story is based on is all about a school teacher and a Mountie--they marry and they grow old together. We saw Daniel leaving the show as a little hiccup and thought it would then get back on track. I could have accepted Lucas if they were more considerate in how the storyline played out.
I agree with kaycee that the last episode should b handled more sensitivity... the ending looks like rushed and without logic... I m team nathan but I could've accept the ending with nathan if the excuse of Elizabeth to him makes any sense. After all these time she said she was finding jack in him? Who said that? That not a good excuse of rejecting him...everything could've good evn with Lucas and Elizabeth if the ending and episode have any kind of logic in it... thats all
They obviously dropped the ball on this " manufactured " bridge scene ! This entire sham of a so called triangle was an insult to the intelligence of the fans ( Nathan fans ) the company , writers, producers, and Erin all knew how this was going to end long ago , but they strung along the fans for 3 seasons and toyed with emotions and for ratings and it had nothing to do with the loyal fans ! Immediately after the finale there were people canceling their subscriptions and many others threatening to never watch the show again and that includes myself ! How do you disregard the majority of browser that wanted a Elizabeth and Nathan romance with a kiss , but instead they put on a farce and deceived deceived the fans ! We the long time loyal fans who have been on this journey with Elizabeth since that first stage coach ride towards Coal Valley , she is not that same wonder ful bubbly young woman we've grown to love but they have altered her character to become someone that lashed out towards good friends and easily gets offended and chose opulence and charm and. Flattery and surface tangible things over the simple things that " True Love brings " this is so disappointing and I will never watch it again ! Come next season there will be a " whole inside When Calls The Heart " ....us the now former Hearties, we turn in our badges and say farewell !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 absolutely agreed dear. I never consider Lucas as her potential. I could've accept hum as the man Elizabeth want to be with. But the alibi of Elizabeth made me questioning abt her views. I mean after 3 long season all she saw is him being a shadow of jack? Who give this kind of excuse. And after all these time. I can't blv she can't see past his uniform. I mean that's totally ugly and mean. Just this one scene made the whole season meaningless.
You are so correct !
My sincere thanks to Kami and Kaycee for your very entertaining recaps of S8 episodes. The finale has been surprising hard on TN, me included. Nathan is a very well written multilayered character and Kevin McGarry pitch perfectly brought that character to life, very successfully evoking the same anguish, emotion that his character was going through, in his viewers. The pain in your faces was palpable, made me feel less alone. By the end of the finale, all I could think of was, how our collective heart was being torn apart like it was described in the "Not yet" scene. If you have any way to do so, please let Kevin know what a class of performer he is, and all the agony and heartbreak TN is feeling, is a testament of his extraordinary talent. TN really appreciates him. It will take time and talk therapy may be, but all of us hopefully will have better days soon.
Noble? Yes Nathan is noble, but so is Lucus, it seemed like Nathan was more closed off, more so than Lucas, Lucas showed his emotions in many ways, also Elizabeth comes from a polished background and speaks french & loves books as does Lucas, and WHY would she want to WORRY EVERYTIME Nathan would leave on a manhunt! Lucas is the best chose for her based on her lifestyle!
Is that what is really important ? Choose a man based on your lifestyle ? It seems superficial.
Elisabeth came to Hope Valley to live a different lifestyle with all the challenges that it brings and we saw her grow all this years : her character has been created with that purpose.
Now it seems that all that was in vain.
@@Aurora-ob9ix She was in love with Lucas for the man he was though, otherwise when he set her free, letting her know that there was no guilt or obligation towards him, providing her with a free pass, she still couldn’t choose Nathan.
That is because by then her heart was already Lucas’s, it was too late. Honestly, it would have been easier for her to go back to Nathan, she’s done it before with Jack and that life would have been easier to fall back into, we saw how easy it was when she warmed Nathan’s serge and offered him Jack’s gloves, but she chose to walk into the unknown with Lucas. That’s how I know what E+L share is unbreakable, because she wouldn’t have chosen him if there was any doubt about Nathan.
@@taraz6786 Nathan was not the safe choice just based on what she said to him "it would heart too much if i lose you like Jack".She didn't conquer her fear,she went with the safe option, the man she thinks she will not have to worry if he will come back.There is no growth story after all,just an escape.
I don't see a strong emotional connexion with her and Lucas,all is based on superficial things which are not what you need to put first if you want to chose a man : upbringing,books...but this is the story the writer have decide to tell.
I will always be convinced that with Nathan things would have been more complex and more deep.
@@Aurora-ob9ix With all due respect, having things in common, a matching sense of humour and having values & perspective are not superficial traits. They are fundamental because when looks and the excitement of a new relationship fade, you have to have something that binds you together, a strong friendship with things and hobbies to share in and enjoy as a couple.
I understand that you felt like N+E may have had more depth but it wasn’t shown at all, in fact their communication was rare and when we did deign to get it, it wasn’t cohesive, not to mention it was negative a lot of the time.
Also I will admit both men were not safe because it meant opening herself up for heartbreak either way, but if she truly wanted safe, she wouldn’t have raced after Lucas the way she did, she would have chosen neither.
@@taraz6786 I don't say having things in common are not important.I talk about the other of importance of the reasons that make you chose someone : if you love books for example, you can't marry a man just because he also loves books,it is superficial.You choose the person you want based on something that will truly build your relationship and make it last : a common purpose,you realise that you have the same vision for many things and this person complete you.If you have the same upbringing it is not a bad thing but it is not what you need to look in the first place.
The writing of the last episode, I felt, negated everything that happened between Nathan and Elizabeth until that moment. Episode 2 Nathan said "I know you feel the same way I do", and episode 12, he's to Lucas like: "I'm not surprised, I think her heart always was with you." Like what? They couldn't have said that Elizabeth was just slowly falling for Lucas. Instead Nathan now suddenly knew it was going to be this way. NO. Nathan and Elizabeth could have had a very nice friendship. They didn't need to write Nathan falling in love with her, if they were going to go with Lucas.
And again as Kaycee said, we never got the chance to love Nathan with Elizabeth. I agree Kaycee, I feel like the rug was ripped out from under me. I am flat on my face, in disbelief of what just happened. It was handled badly.
And now Elizabeth is going to marry the rich white guy. Like Kevin McGarry said, he's too perfect. Something has gotta give! Or actually that's not true. He's not too perfect. He ran away at the first sign that his ego was getting bruised. I am getting tired about hearing about Saint Lucas.
When Nathan was about to leave he had a legitimate reason for thinking of leaving: he got the promotion. And Nathan wasn't going to leave without saying a word. He was planning on talking with Elizabeth, except Allie beat him to it. Lucas was considering leaving because he didn't know how Elizabeth felt about him. And he wasn't going to say anything. AGAIN.
It was handled badly for Team Nathan. I AM HURT. I AM ANGRY. AND DISAPPOINTED.
And not to mention. A lot of Team Nathan fans have taken down their videos, have stopped making videos, have taken down fan pages. That reaction should say something to Brian Bird and the rest of the powers that be: this shouldn't have been this shocking or devastating to fans.
My sentiments exactly!
Mine sentiments too! Last week, I pre-ordered the DVDs for this season, after the show I cancelled my order. My finale is season 7. The reason is because I fell the same way you do.
I’m sorry, while I understand your frustrations and perspective, your assessment of Lucas is way off, like way off.
He left once to sort out his feelings of jealousy which he was entitled to & was honest to Elizabeth about. Now instead of wallowing, he used that time to help school children by rebuilding the schools they had lost to a hurricane. He was brutally honest which I respect, declaring that he had lost perspective and that helping people provided him with better insight and patience. This is actually an incredibly healthy way to handle and combat negative and toxic emotions & frankly I think we could all learn from his example in that regard, especially when we feel down or depressed.
Also he considered leaving in the season 8 finale, but he didn’t actually leave so that hardly counts but having said that, he let Elizabeth go and so it wasn’t about being jealous, it was about moving on and healing from his broken heart, knowing that Elizabeth was at least going to be happy even if it was without him. There was no bruised ego, he had an open and upfront conversation with her like he always did, he laid his cards out on the table and it was on Elizabeth for taking her sweet time to talk to him. He had every reason to think she was done, so judging him is kind of bizarre when he hasn’t actually done anything to warrant that kind of vitriol.
3. You said that you would have liked to see E longing for L, and honestly I would have liked to see her, too, pursuing him, longing for him. And you gave the example of your husband, of finding out that he is leaving. But here is the thing: Elizabeth did not have the feeling that he was losing L until the end of episode 11. He was always there, waiting for her. It was only in episode 11, when he let her go (by the way, another noble thing, just like N's convo with L in episode 12) that she had the feeling that she was losing L. And her face in that scene showed the same anguish that you said you felt with your husband. She was crushed. AND that helped her realize that she did feel something very deep for L.
You’re right. I probably should have clarified. With my husband, it was just the one man. In this situation, she’s trying to pick the man she can’t live without. I just never got the feeling she was longing for him, or that she felt a huge pull his way throughout the season. Obviously that changed in the last episode 🙃
@@kamiclements7456 yes and it’s weird to go from “feeling lost” to sooo in love in that bridge scene the next day. I’m inclined to believe some higher up forced them to change the ending right before filming episode 11 or 12. Otherwise they are just horrible writers or they just don’t care and thought they could pass off sloppy work because the hearties are so loyal.
@@kamiclements7456 Yeah, I understand. Because they rushed things at the end. L let her go at the end of episode 11 and then in episode 12 they squeezed too many things. They didn't have time to let the story breeze a little, to show how things finally clicked in her head in the end-L letting her go, on one hand and the episode with N and the uniform on the other hand. So in the end she told us rather than showed us how she has finally realized what was in her heart. But her realization was triggered in part by the same thing that triggered it in your case, I think. She really was extremely anguished when L let her go. Anyway, thanks for answering :)) It is nice exchanging views.
@@1370np But here is the thing, she has been falling in love with L for 3 years now, not in the last episode. And I strongly believe they made the decision early on in season 8, not at the end. I think TN based their conviction that E loved N, mainly on the long looks she gave N and how skittish she was around him. Because, what other intimate interaction has there been? They haven't even gone on a date. What meaningful intimate things they have shared about each other, what deep things they have confided in each other? You saw the long looks as a sign of love, and I believe that the writers let this issue ambiguous for quite some time, so that they could use this card if they decided to go the N route in season 8. But the love story that has been developed in season 7 and then in season 8 has been the LE one. If you could watch just the L and E scenes taking N out of the equation, you may see it as well, their love story is beautiful. But I don't expect you to leave aside everything you have believed in until now and see the LE scenes with an open mind. At least not for now. Because I probably wouldn't be able to either, if I was in your place. But maybe later, when things settle a little more? Hopefully
@@kamiclements7456 I went back and watched season 8 knowing she picked Lucas and could see her leaning towards Lucas. It removed the doubts it would be him.
I love all the input. You are SO RIGHT....NATHAN is great and he is why TN people I know are into him. It's not really the relationship w/Elizabeth in the long run, if you saw it, great...but Lucas was the build. I DO think they need to give Nathan a GOOOOOD person. I will be perfectly frank...Lucas is VERY MUCH like my husband. Looks, attitude etc... so I KNOW the man who loves, respects, and supports. I appreciate you adding your own personal affection to Nathan as the impetus for the connection. LOVE YOU ALL for being clear, level-headed & wonderful podcast hosts
It’s Lucas all the way
I can't believe Elisabeth told Nathan she was looking for Jack in him,how superficial she can be to think that a man's job is his identity ? She doesn't realise that it also means all this time with Jack,she didn't see him,she was just seeing his uniform ? This is just horrible.Nathan is not Jack and the writers don't want to help the viewers see the difference : so disrectful to Nathan's character. When you watch S6 and S7 you can see that that excuse doesn't make sense : Elisabeth was clearly seeing him for who he is and she said and the beginning of S7 that she was ready for a change wich implies that she had let go of Jack. Now that i know they change the showrunner i inderstand this chaotic season wich don't fit with the others.
Maybe i don't know nothing about storytelling but i don't see Lucas character in a leading role,things are a bit too superficial.Even if he sell the saloon and stop wearing suits and start washing his own dishes... ,i still don't see enough "weight" in him to be a lead.
Next season they may change the characters to fit the narrative, and it is unfair to them and detrimental to the integrity of the show, Elisabeth is already different and it is a bit uncomfortable to watch.
I also hope they don't plan to put Nathan with Faith,an awful idea : she is not strong and stable enough for him and WCTH is not a show where everyone is dating with everyone😬,they are destroying the purity of the show.They will have to bring a new woman in town if they decide to give him a love interest.The show is forever changed and they did this with some brutality and i understand those who will stop watching : the thing is the viewers showed such attachment to this show that HM thinks they can do whatever they want and people will stay loyal.
You'v nailed it. Very well said. I agree completely with you. It really hurt hearing her saying she was looking for Jack in him.
I totally agree 👍
I agree 100% that they diminished her relationship even with Jack to just a uniform when she said she was looking for Jack in Nathan. I'm very disappointed with it all. Had they handled the triangle differently I might still be invested in the show. But no longer.. I feel this season was a disaster on so many fronts. I will hope for a bright future for Nathan and Allie, but I can't support a show that snubbed it's nose at over 70% of their viewers and how they could have shown an epic love story of the heart struggle to overcome the fear and loss of Jack by loving Nathan. This was my all time favorite show till they ruined not only what could have been a beautiful love story, but having all the characters struggle this season where they all seemed disconnected to who they normally are,, and then ultimately change a beloved Elizabeth to be unrecognizable. I wish it had been soothing to watch instead of full of stress and anxiety week after week. I have unfollowed most everything WCTH and won't be watching next season for the first time since the pilot and the series began. Love to all the fellow hearties who feel the same and are hurting and to those who are able to continue watching.
A MANS JOB HIS HIS IDENTITY! 😁
Agreed. That reason of rejecting nathan was mean and baseless. After 3 long season, what did she said as the reason of him not being a person she can be with? Bcz she always went on finding jack in him!!!!! I mean seriously? If she can't see nathan over his uniform, it's her fault. Not Nathan's. This one scene made the whole season meaningless and false.
You ladies were much nicer and more tactful in your words than me. I felt angry. I wasn't so much angry that she chose Lucas but angry because they deceived team Nathan on purpose. I actually realized in episode 10 how it would unfold and I was correct sadly. I just don't like that they strung us along for ratings and then broke our hearts without even giving Nathan a chance, he didn't even get one date and that is so unsatisfying after all the beautiful scenes they had together. They could have handled it differently with the same outcome and I wouldn't feel so sour about it. But, I'm angry at the writers for not caring enough about the other half. I am still team Nathan for I so hope he has a beautiful story line next season and still plenty of screen time. Kevin is too charming not to be in the story much now.
I feel the same way, Nan...I could have accepted Lucas if they bothered to spend a little more time in this convoluted season to make it make more sense. This would have been much easier to swallow if she at least gave Nathan a fighting chance, and they had a couple of dates together.
@@alicepahler7610 I dont think she gave him a chance because she didnt care for him that way?
@@lauriehaggith6297 That's not absolutely true ! It would have been more credible and easier to accept that reasoning had they not put her into many scenes " where she would be staring at Nathan in a way that showed love and her running into his arms , and for her to say " stop shutting me out " .... If anyone tries to justify this is just ludacris ! Hallmark just dropped the ball on this debacle of a so called triangle , and it's unacceptable how they cared nothing about the team Nathan fans , and all about the team Gambler fans, and that's why some quickly canceled their subscriptions and a lot are saying that they are done with the show , myself included !
@@lauriehaggith6297 Well, they were very good at giving us the impressiong that she did--even Lucas saw it that way.
@@alicepahler7610 lucas saw but did not hear
I am so angry at Hallmark for dismissing our feelings after leading us on this whole season. I could definitely accept Lucas with Elizabeth, but I wish they had done it with more consideration for Team Nathan fans. What was the blindfold about--she was projecting Jack onto Nathan even though she was blindfolded? I call BS...This finale felt like they tossed a coin in the air, and Nathan lost.
I think the blindfolded scene was as much for TL as it was for TN because while she felt comfort in Nathan’s hands, her wide smile and excited sigh in breathing out Lucas’s name was just as impactful. She wanted desperately for it to be him & that’s why Lucas laughed about it, because they are much more honest & communicative with each other & that is an asset in any healthy relationship. They are more often than not, on each other’s wavelength.
@@taraz6786 Sorry, I never saw E and L as honest and communicative. I saw Lucas as pouty and avoiding the unpleasant conversations rather than bringing them up--like when he left HV for 2 months, and he jumped on Elizabeth and asked what did she know about love, and all the frowns when he saw her looking at Nathan.
@@alicepahler7610 He wasn’t pouty and he left to help friends build a school that was leveled in a hurricane, he left to gain perspective and help people and there is NOTHING wrong with that. He was honest about his feelings and the reason he left with Elizabeth, because they have an honest and open relationship. They always talk through things, even their most difficult and negative emotions which is key to any successful relationship.
Also he apologized for his outburst but it was raw for him, it was his family and his parents marriage, I don’t blame him for being hurt. At least he doesn’t yell at her like she’s a child which is what Nathan did. I find that disrespectful, because she’s a grown woman and Nathan was quite condescending and rude.
As for looking at her & Nathan, Nathan did the EXACT same thing, he was always watching E+L them when they were together. 🙄 Not to mention Elizabeth used to watch both of them equally and you didn’t mention her or Nathan doing it. You can’t pick on one character for doing exactly what the other characters are doing, that makes no sense. 😂
@@taraz6786I respectfully disagree. I guess we see what we want to see. I really feel that Nathan was supposed to be the choice, and midway through, they changed their minds--and that is the only explanation that explains why this finale does not make sense.
It should NOT be a DIVIDEND TEAM..the HEARTIES IS THE HOPE VALLEY TEAM! ❤❤
Im not a team lucas or team Nathan fan, and went into seasons 6-8 with an open mind and im sorry but it was obvious from the beginning to the end that it was going to be lucas all the signs were there you just had to actually pay attention.
I’ve watched this show since the pilot but I won’t be watching season 9. The main reason is not just that she chose Lucas but in the treatment of Nathan. When Jack died I was devastated but the beautiful writing made up for it. At this point I like the character of Nathan way more than Jack. The only thing that would have made sense after Nathan being degraded all season was for him to end up with Elizabeth. Now the main themes of season 8 - Fighting for Love - Facing Your Fear - mean absolutely nothing. I’m 100% Team Nathan and I think Kevin McGarry is the best actor on the show. But if Lucas had gotten the same treatment this season I would have been upset as well. I’ve enjoyed all of your podcasts and interviews and wish you the best!
Wendie, absolutely ! They had us to believe that there might be a chance for Nathan to win her heart in the end but to end it the way that wrote it was playing on the intelligence of the viewers ! She had plenty of time to tell Nathan but she continued on with the game and that look in Nathan's eyes resembled someone looking at a corpse , someone that died ! That scene broke the hearts of many long time loyal fans and though they will try and blow it off as " it's just a tv show " well tv shows depicts and reflects real life , and in real life some broken hearts might never mend ! This entire couple if seasons was an altering of things and it's not the viewers fault that the actor that played Jack left , so in order to. fill that void , they took something beautiful and tore it apart , and now that once wonderful show to many of us disheartened fans, for us that has now been destroyed ! The canceling of subscriptions and the many that felt let down and disrespected. will walk away from the show forever ! Sad and unfortunate that they did this to a wonderful show ! They never gave Nathan a chance at romance , and what ever happened. " all is fair in love and war " ....it was a farce to even put " Love is worth fighting for " into the .mix because now none of that makes any sense ! So long WCTH !
Yeah. I can't make myself watch season 9. Its just too hard.
4. It is very true that in a lot of E and L scenes there were a taint. Either because E was guarded or because N had to come up in the scene also and E had to look troubled at him. But (leaving aside the fact that it was probably done just to drag the damn triangle and to create tension :)) I leave to your consideration also the following: the whole idea was that E was not yet ready to leave J behind and commit herself to love again. This is why she was guarded. But, despite of this, if you rewatch the scenes, this time knowing the result, you can see how she fully smiles when she is with L, lots of time. How things he says impact her and make her watch him very deeply, all of a sudden, how she clearly is attracted to him (the scene with the rain, the scene in his office, plus the Dangerous Liaisons from season 6 and another one with the books in season 7), how despite being still afraid to move forward she makes little steps toward L every episode (until Florence party, that is).
Anyway, I don't want to say much more. I understand that right now you probably feel too dissappointed to want to consider these aspects, but I found you very open to discussion, and your convo helped me better understand your side of the story, so I wanted to leave this food for thought for your later consideration.
Also, as a last consideration, I can see why you consider L stiff and he definitely is guarded. But he is also a very sensitive and gentle soul, and I think he has proven it this season (being so affected by what happened to his parents, to Henry and suffering silently and unresentfully with everything that E has made him pass through). And I think that E makes him open up and it will be interesting to see more of this dynamic in season 9, and to see him open up more.
Anyway, all the best to you, and after a while, if you feel like it, maybe you want to watch some videos called Lucas and Elizabeth part 1, part 2.. up to 7 now. It is their story concentrated and it may help you see what we have seen. I will also try to give a shot to the EN videos
All the team Nathan fans were trying to say was what we all felt in our own respective ways , and it's like two rams running into.each other with one winning the challenge vying for the ewes affection ! The team gambler fans are elated and are feeling good that their guy has won and so they should because had Nathan won we'd be feeling elated as well ! Now let's take a look , a keener look.without letting our biases and partiality come into play ! The premise of the books by MS Oke, was initially about a schooll teacher and a Mountie , and not a gambler ! The gambler fans says that " shes already done the Mountie thing as if it were a job or some project " Mountie thing SMH ! This is first from a book series, made into a tv series and it in the beginning actually captivated many viewers ! Every One would wait anxiously for another episode and a new season , and I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it from the beginning episode but enough is enough ! It's one thing to manufacture something be sure its their show but to deceive the many fans that loyally followed the show and of his because of their faithful viewership that a lot of the good Ratings came about ! They dragged too long a so - called triangle which was not true , they used Mountie Nathan and misled us to have hope that Mountie Nathan just might have a chance after all seeing how one sided the do called triangle was , and that is something that is really unacceptable ! Each scene where the Gambler saloon owner was put into a serious situation , he would not directly hit it head in for long and he'd abruptly leave ! It's their man and the gambler fans will not even try to.see the insecurities he has because of seeing the cosmetic aspects and all.of the nice surface things ! Nathan and Rosemary made some very interesting remarks and do did his mother but no one seemed to pay any attention to them ! Or they only saw what they wanted to see ! His character has a past as we all do , but he has serious insecurity issues and he's like a grown immature person ,who seems used to getting what he wants and he doesn't take no.very well.! I cannot knock.his opulent lifestyle , nor hers but why alter things and have her. go right back to the very life she left in the first place ! It's useless trying to.get the team Gambler fans to see what we. see , and they seem defend the Gambler without trying tonite critical.thinking and not allow how they feel.over rule rationality ! All of those times he would be standing while looking from.afar at her and Nathan . that was pure jealousy and being afraid that she might tirn yo Nathan , and his questioning her Everytime was pure jealousy ! I e asked a bunch of females if a guy did that who was interested in you, how would you all access that ....and all.of them said that he should be secure within himself and be confident confident that he and her are tight with each other ! Who runs away to another state for 2 months without saying good bye ?.The team Gambler fans talk about Nathan , but at least he didn't.leave town instead of dealing with it like a man ! Erin said that the losing guy actually " takes it like a champ, which not turned out to be Nathan , but the Gambler was about to run away again instead of " in her words take it like a champ " ! There are many things that were " red flags " with the gambler but they were never addressed and to manufacture a farce is again unacceptable ! Thank you for at least attempting to try and understand why the team Nathan fans are not satisfied and not all but a majority will.no longer be watching ! How do you reward what they did ? Thank you for being level.headed and not using emotional.out bursts ! Have a wonderful day and be safe during these Pandemic times !
I disagree I feel Elizabeth had her eyes on Lucas all along
the writers shouldn't have made her say to NATHAN that she saw jack in HIM. because Nathan is not really like jack at all. Nathan is introverted whilst jack seemed more of an extrovert. Nathan had a poor upbringing in criminal family where he worked to pull away from that reputation whereas Jack grew up with a mountie father and was just following in the family trade as such. Nathan is a protector whereas Jack is an adventure seeker. Nathan is sensitive whereas Jack was what I will call a sensitive tease. Nathan was a love grown out of respect and admiration of Elizabeth whereas Jack was more love at first fight. according to this the writers had no reason to use the weak excuse of "I saw jack in you" and if elizabeth didn't know him well enough to know he is not like Jack then she haden't given him enough chance to have a good reasonable reason for refusing him.
she said she was trying to find Jack in him not that she had
Elizabeth's choice was disappointing. I never felt any chemistry between the characters. I hear people say of lucas made such a sacrifice when he let her go but they forget nathan was willing to give up the mounties for her. I dont find the Elizabeth and Lucas storyline drawing my attention other than a glance but I will be watching to see what happens with all the other characters. Maybe it's also time they took the main focus off of elizabeth and put Lee and rosemary as the leads (main characters) in this series. Jmo and we know what that's worth 🙃
I would love to see less of Elizabeth and more of the rest of the town but I doubt that will happen with
Erin being a producer. I would love to see more of Nathan - this time with a good happy story since all we say so far was his pain. I was rooting for him but they never gave him a chance. I think it would be fun to see the Coulters adopt an older child - like 5-12 ish in age. It's easier for production too. Bummer for team Nathan.
I agree with you both. It would be great to see another couple as the lead characters, whether it be Lee & Rosemary or Nathan & someone. I read once this tv program was based on Janet Oke's novels about a mountie & a schoolteacher. Well the writers have definitely changed that path, unfortunately. So maybe this means it could be time for a new story line.
Gee, I wonder if the powers that be ever read any of these comments from fans!
@@nanb7149 Elizabeth is the protagonist of this show so she is important
@@jank9091 The mountie and schoolteacher happened with Jack and Elizabeth. It was done
They had BETTER give Nathan someone who is basically the female version of Lee Coulter. Loving, patient, kind, never angry, etc.
Ok let's hope the harlequin romance junior high crush nonsense is over and we get back to good quality episodes. It has fallen away from the family style story lines the last few years.
We can hope, yes!
THANK YOU TO THE YOUNG WOMAN that pointed out what Minnie was dealing with it wasn’t her being bitter it was protecting mode for her child and Elizabeth not understanding she has made promises from the start not getting where the Canfields have been through like Erin said in and interview sometimes you need to stop and listen to because you may not understand what someone has been through ❤️that’s absolutely true
I just wanted to thank you for this recap - thanks for your honestly as I feel just as disappointed in the finale. I’m heartbroken. It’s been great listening to your podcast all season long - really appreciate it!! ❤️
I lost hope in Love. They had Elizabeth show some love language toward Nathan then boom she chose Lucas. I hate to be a negative Nancy, but I’m not even looking forward to watching next season and not sure I will be. So disappointed with the ending.
To be fair, they did the same thing with Lucas, in fact they showed them practically dating at one point, so their relationship felt more natural and organic, plus they were a lot more honest and open with their communication, which helped deepen their connection.
However there are plenty of other characters to keep us invested and I really hope they bring someone better for Nathan, someone who only has eyes for him.
It's me again...Sorry, but I am really disturbed by this finale. I have been thinking and another thing that does not make sense to me is this. Yes, the first time Elizabeth saw Nathan on the road, she thought of Jack. The first time she went to his office to speak with him was tough, because she thought of Jack. After she welcomed him to HV, I never got that impression again. And, if this were true and she projected her feelings of Jack onto Nathan, why on earth did she keep telling him no? Jack was the love of her life, here was a man that she confused with him--she would most definitely want to spend more time with him and try to recapture what she had with Jack. I would. So that excuse doesn't hold water, in my opinion.
THIS RIGHT HERE!! My thoughts exactly. I can also see how the hug might be her wishing to hold Jack one more time, but I am not fully convinced this is the truth.
She said no to both of them at different times. Even when she was Lucas, she wanted to take it slow because she was never ready, not until the finale when she took off her ring. Also she never said she saw Jack in Nathan, she said that she was trying to find him in Nathan and trying to live out the life that her & Jack never got to live. It becomes so much clearer when you find out about the Fort Clay situation & how he was literally replaced by Jack, so it's good that she told him the truth FINALLY because she wasn't being fair to him.
I do believe with time, she saw Nathan for who he was. It's not like she's blind, she's been his friend for 3 years. I think he just represents what she lost and frankly I can understand that kind of grief, especially when she was never truly happy about Jack's dangerous missions etc.
I appreciate you ladies so much and have had a blast watching you each week discuss the show we love. Looking forward to more discussions. God bless!
Thank you for your support this season!
Thank you Susie! That’s so kind of you to say!
I could have accepted Lucas so much easier if they at least made sense of the Nathan so-called triangle. They never even gave him a fighting chance. It would have been much more satisfying if Lucas set her free mid-season, and she at least went on a couple of dates with Nathan. Where were the twists and turns, the back and forths. this whole season didn't make sense. There was one almost date where she got ''sick" on the steps of the cafe--that was just plain ridiculous. Hallmark can spin this any way it likes, but only one answer makes sense. This story was headed with Nathan as the choice, and midway they changed the storyline--way too late to make it cohesive.
After watching alot of different podcasts please take the time and watch episodes 8 & 9 lucabeth lounge. It shows what the writers were actually trying to convey to the audience. Cheers
Hi ladies as a Lucas fan I listened to your entire video and I must say im sorry and I love Nathan and look forward to his story and true love for him you ladies are a classy group not everyone can talk through the episode with so much tack and heart ❤️ I appreciate your opinions and it’s a delight regardless if we don’t always agree I hope you stick around so we can enjoy S9 WCth and watch Nathan move on and have awesome adventures while raising his spirited neice / daughter ❤️
I agree.. I didn't love how they did the ending. There was a better way to end the triangle and have everyone be happier. I can get behind E and L BUT they should have cut the triangle at the start of season 8. A) it would have provided E and L more time together as a couple, B) would have been more fair to Nathan.. I would have loved for N to have a relationship building with someone else. And we wouldn't have been so tired with the triangle.
They did cut it at the beginning season 8 but you didn't want to see it
I disagree with you girls. If you really follow the story Lucas was the endgame from season 6. She didn't like Nathan as a suitor to go on a date. Was just the uniform that attracted her. Look at her reactions each time she spoke to Nathan shaking her head. Sorry
It was Lucas all time (canter stage)
I find the suggestion that TN were mostly hallucinating in thinking there was something brewing underneath between Elizabeth and Nathan, rather inexplicable. Didn’t the character Lucas himself think the same (e.g. observing from far just like us viewer) at the end of episode 11, when he decided to free Elizabeth? And doesn’t his conversation with Carson in the saloon prior to that, about “moving on”, reaffirms his thinking?
I agree that there may have been Lucas centered hints that TL latched onto and TN may have missed due to selective thinking. But to suggest there was no storm gathering on the Nathan front, it was all a mirage, is not quite evenhanded look at the script.
Thank you for your belief that TN fans are not all delusional or nuts. The suggestion that there was nothing there is what angers me the most. Of course there was something there--the writers admitted they did not decide until midway into the 8th. season who it was going to be. If they had decided on Nathan, then all the scenes Lucas fans are passing off as nothing would have been the proof. And, for as long as I have been watching Hallmark, they have a formula--this ending strayed from the formula.
That is what frustrates me the most. Fact of the matter is they would not be calling this a love triangle if Nathan never had a chance. Sure things probably started hinting at Lucas more than Nathan, and I probably missed them due to selective thinking. However, I saw chemistry between them and the fact that TL and others are saying there was nothing there and it is just my imagination is frustrating.
Another good podcast, ladies. I did not even bother watching episode 12 based on what folks were saying and I am glad I didn't after hearing your discussion. I am not going to watch series 9 as I can't stand to see a further heartbroken Nathan after he was the underdog for two years and beaten down for this one. Hope Valley was a happy place to visit, now it is not and I am choosing to leave. Why would anyone want to go someplace where they know they are not happy, fictional or real. But, I will continue to listen to your dispatches (podcast) as I do appreciate your honesty and frankness about your interpretations and decisions.
l am disheartened, and frankly a bit disgusted, by what appears to be a lack of planning and thought of how this season was going to progress, overall, and how each episode played out individually. Almost every episode felt like they were trying to tell too many stories and give us so much information that details or even conversations seemed to get cut!? (Maybe there will be deleted scenes on the S8 DVD, but I won't be purchasing it, sorry Edify). Many characters were out of character with Elizabeth herself being the worst offender (yes, I know she was dealing with things, but she was simply mean to Rosemary, cruel to Nathan, and yes, even she could have treated Lucas better). Series 8 was a soap opera, and a bad one at that...I watched many in the 90s, so I know what they are like.
I can't imagine that a showrunner would go into production without a clear, cut, solid plan and then sticking with it. Boggles the mind! Imagine if Lee went to fill a lumber order with one, or Nathan and Bill went on an investigation, or heck, even Lucas needs to plan menus and order food to make his business work. Movies and some TV usually should have storyboards or some kind of idea where they are going, right? Most television series at least have table reads with all the cast together. It seems to me series 8 did not have any of this. Preparation and planning are needed to tell a good story, particularly a series. I didn't sense any in series 8 particularly from episode 12 which sounds more disjointed than all 11 previous episodes.
Would I have been happier if they decided to tell a story of the actual life of a Mountie and a schoolteacher? Yes, of course. However, in spite of what Team viewers may have been on, WCTH series 8 was a fine example of poor storytelling. Plain and simple. Actors did the best they could with what they were given, but they weren't given good enough material to save this jumping shark.
Sorry to report I'm still not over it. Any suggestions on how to deal with it?
I've been watching season 2 in case I cant do this new season.
I love Karen Kingsbury. I love her Baxter family books which introduced the Flanagan family! I’ll chat Baxters and Flanagan with you ALL day! 😂
Their faces at the beginning say it all!
3 words I am done.