Thanks Larry. Good vid. I occasionally squeeze in an extract batch as well. For the same reasons. Less work. Less cleanup. Simpler. Less time commitment. But I still do a full wort boil. I
You are the reason I got up the courage to switch to all grain Larry. I noticed my beers getting better and better all the time I never had a “wow” moment with extract myself. Thanks
I have gone back to extract partial mash after 2 decades hiatus. I find water chemistry makes a huge difference. i will eventually get back to all grain, but for now I am happy with my results.
Sounds like an experiment waiting to happen. I'd have to use different brew systems to brew concurrent batches though which could influence the outcome. Still may be worth a try.
Part of the problem with converting extract recipes to all grain and all grain recipes to extract is figuring out what the extracts were made with. Some are easy while others are not. So, at best, comparing the "same" recipe made with both methods is going to a little bit of comparing apples and oranges.
Hoping to move to all grain this year after 10ish years of extract. my goal was to 'perfect' my extract process. i haven't used a kit in years but rather recipes from books (Brewing Classic Styles) and that has helped. Using upgraded equipment ( Spike fermenter and others ), maintaining fermentation temps, oxygenating the wort, and then close transferring to kegs has made my pale ales pretty damn good. excited to see how it improves or compares with all grain. nice channel. appreciate the insight and detail.
Larry, I subbed you a year ago, and now I’ve seen every single one of your videos. Some, 3-8 times to learn. I watch the live shows. I’ve absorbed it all. The reason?…you’re always doing something so radically different than the other shows. I think it’s your engineering background. You’re analytical and you just wanna know “why”. I watch You’re saying things no one else does. Even this extract episode is interesting because your approach and teaching is different. We appreciate it. Have a great week and thanks.
since I have gone from all grain to extract, i have done the following. Depending on beer style I pick a yeast to complement the style. I will also do a mini mash or a steeping depending on my level of energy. :) I have had my local homebrew club taste these beers and cant determine how they were brewed.
It’s an interesting style. Dark colored but lighter in alcohol and body than most lagers. Was a hard sell on some people that only drink “light beer” simply due to the color. They were of course surprised after being badgered into trying it.
I'll be looking for the all grain counterpart vidya. I am sure that comparison is gonna rent some space in your head brother. I know it would mine. Cheers Buddy.
Hey Lary. My experience to make a better tasing extract brew is to add from one to two lbs of "specialty" grain of your choice if you're brewing by kit.
Yeah, I would add the water adjustments for the style and not worry too much about the extract chemistry. I would also use some other things like flaked barley for head retention. Even if you don’t go with a complete partial mash add some grains for flavor and body according to the style.
I'd chalk it up to the top-up water and use of distilled. I'd try a small partial mash, in your smaller pot, and then top up with spring or filtered tap water. I've done some partial mash 5 gallon batches in my Anvil Foundry 6.5... and topped up with about 1.5 gallons of preboiled water and had some pretty good results.
Thanks for the feedback. That's exactly what I did; partial mash and top up with distilled water in pot before adding extract. The beer did taste kinda flat which made me suspect a lack of minerals. The challenge with extract brewing is knowing what and how much to add since you do not know the mineral content of the extract to know what you should add and how much of it. It's a guessing game until you can brew it a number of times with varying amounts until you can dial it in.
Great video Larry! I'm coming across this two years later but thought I'd chime in. I do a mix of both all-grain and extract and of the two best beers I've made in the last year or so (and by "best" I essentially mean "the one I wanted to drink the most/lasted in my kegs the least amount of time") were an all-grain Amber Ale, and an extract + steeping grains Citra Pale Ale. I haven't yet compared an extract recipe head-to-head with the equivalent all-grain recipe, but since I just kegged an extract Porter and have the right ingredients on hand to do the all-grain equivalent it might be good timing. As far as some tips that I've seen get me better results with extract: 1. Treat the steeping like a mini mash of sorts, meaning as opposed to following some instructions that tell you to throw your grains in your water and take them out after 20 minutes or before you hit 170 degrees F, I get my water to around 150F or so (depending on what grains I'm using) and hold it there for 30 minutes. I'm not sure this matters as much as I think it does, but it makes me feel better. :) 2. Related to #1, you probably want to add some water treatment if you're starting with RO or distilled water. The bit about the extract already taking care of that for you is essentially true, but adding some style-appropriate salts to your water (provided you're starting with RO or distilled water) can help. The amounts will be less than you'd do with all-grain but for example adding a bit of gypsum for IPAs and other styles that you want to be on the drier side, or some calcium chloride for maltier styles, can help quite a bit. If you're using tap water it'd be ideal to get a water report so you know what you're starting with. John Palmer has a thorough discussion and concrete suggestions in "How to Brew" (chapter 8 specifically). Personally I found that if I use RO water with no additions it comes out too "smooth" and lacked the bit of mineral bite for something like an IPA. It works OK for more malty styles but small water additions definitely help give it a little extra something. 3. Do full-volume boils if possible. I brew 2.5 gallon batches so that might be easy for me to say ;-) but it definitely helps. I have a 240V induction burner and a 5.5 gallon Anvil kettle that work great for both BIAB and extract. 4. Don't boil all the extract, at least not the entire time. The extract is sanitary enough that technically speaking you could -- assuming sanitized equipment -- throw it in cold water, pitch some yeast, and get beer. But unless you're using hopped malt extract you're going to want to add hops of course, and the hop utilization will be different without malt in the mix than with it. (There's some difference of opinion on this, but that's my take.) What I've had good luck with is after steeping whatever grains you're using, add half the malt extract as you bring things to a boil, and then add the remainder of the extract toward the end of the boil. I tend to add the second half of the extract right before I drop my immersion chiller into the pot because messing with extract with your chiller in the pot seems like a nightmare. Some people add the second half at flameout, but if you do that I guess you'd have to chill with something other than an immersion chiller (or Star San your chiller? seems weird ...). At any rate, this can help keep the beer lighter in color and in theory helps avoid any potential "extract twang." So after you do all this, is it actually and quicker or easier than all-grain? Maybe not. :) I often do extract batches when I'm experimenting with fruit or other additions, different yeasts, etc., simply because A) it can be a bit quicker to crank these out, and B) it eliminates the variables of mash temperature, water adjustments (to a certain degree), grain crush issues, efficiency, etc., and lets me focus on the experimental part of the brew. Then once I get that part dialed in, I'll take a run at an all-grain version to give it that extra bit of something, particularly if the recipe would benefit from some base grains that you can't get in extract. Anyway, that's what I find works well for me. Thanks for this great video and ALL your great videos over the years! I've learned a ton from you and it's much appreciated.
Yeah. I ignored extract brewing as an option for years. Was nice to be able to brew on a Tuesday evening and be cleaned up and put away in just a few hours instead of planning a full all grain brew day on a weekend.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I hear ya, I love brewing on my big system, but brewing is an event. So recently I started doing some small batch work. It's much easier when the brewing vessels fit inside your sink.
Hello Larry from Victoria Australia, I've been all grain brewing now for 6 years and I also thought the same, 'I wonder if I brewed an extract now would I be able to tell the difference or have they improved the extract since then so I gave it a crack and brewed up a stout with specialty grains like roasted barley and chocolate malt, I reckon with extract the more specially grains you use and the more hops you use the better flavor you get and it was actually a good beer.
Hey Larry, greetings from Sweden. I do extract brewing with grain steeping, mainly motivated by saving space. This was an interesting video, but I am mainly commenting since it is a new one. I came directly from your old Fermentasaurus review (which got the idea of a conical out of my head) and just wanted to say that your videos have become so damn good since then! The old ones are still good, but the change in camera angles, audio quality and presentation has become really great on your channel. It is noticeable that you put a lot of work into this, and it is really paying off for the audience. Thank you for the time you put into your videos!
I just brewed a Oatmeal Stout extract kit that was given to me, and I added 1 lb of Molasses to it. I just bottled it so can't tell us how it tastes yet.
Great video Larry. I'm an "All Grain" snob...but lets be honest...there are some REALLY good extract beers out there. Brewers Best Mexican Cerveza is one of my favorites...I manage to sneak it in my rotation of brews once a year...SHHHHHHH, don't tell my friends...LOL!
I'm a novice brewer of not even a year. Have only used Brewer's Best kits and they are easy, affordable and make decent beer. Good place to start for sure anyways..
I just ordered The Plinian Progeny extract kit for my second brew! the Frist one turned out great i did a Cariboo Slobber brown ale from northern brewer. cant wait to get to brew day and try this one out!! love your video Larry again lots of insight about brewing your own beer.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Have you brewed this type of beer all grain? would love to see a live brew day on something like this. I will Eventually go all grain but the equipment cost is kind of holding me back right now.
@@danieltalarico620 I never heard of that extract kit you mentioned. I have a homebrew recipe playlist on TH-cam and a beer recipe section on my website listing all the beers I’ve brewed since 2012. Maybe comb through there to see if there is something that is similar.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I'll defiantly check that out and see what you have. I know its a Triple IPA with 3 dry hop additions estimated time from brew day to bottling would be 8 weeks
Larry, Great Video. I've only been brewing beer for two years and have only done extract and partial mash kit recipes. I always thought my beer was good but not great. The flavor of the extract beers that I've brewed are not as crisp or flavorful as I would have hoped for. I've been upgrading my equipment over the winter and will be doing my first all-grain batch in March. Working toward a making better beer. Cheers!
I remember when I transitioned from extract to all grain. I did not have a burner, so I was forced to use the kitchen stove and two small kettles. I set up a five gallon water cooler for the mash, and I used one kettle for the DME, and the other for the all grain wort. I combined the two in a 6.5 gallon carboy. I had to top off to 5 gallons with bottled water. I too experienced considerable anxiety with the possible content of the water. All ended well most of the time, lol. The biggest issue i have had brewing is oxygen. My transferring system has since changed. O2 is no longer a problem. Cheers!
That’s a solution for sure. I only have one “super burner” though. It’d take forever to heat up another pot on another smaller burner. I switched to full wort boils in the later years of extract brewing. Made a huge difference if I recall correctly, but it added at least another hour to my brew day waiting for it all to heat up.
I think it's about freshness. Steeping specialty grains helps bring some of that in. Also If you can't do a full boil, instead of doing a concentrated boil, add the bulk of the extract in the last 10-15min or pasteurize in another pot and mix after. The hops have an easier time imparting flavours in a lower concentration. Dry hopping can also help bring in some of that freshness too.
I’ve never tried a Northern Brewer all grain kit next to their extract version. I imagine they test brew a few to get them close. That might be a future episode if you could brew them at the same time with the same water, etc. I’ve always felt that extract, even at its freshest has already been mashed and condensed and then we boil it all over again. We simply don’t do this with grain…..
That would be interesting. I've never done a beer kit before. Never been a fan of them since they do not take your system's mash efficiency into account (how could they, right?) causing me to buy additional grains anyway. I'm throwing a big bash in a couple months, so I'll needs lots of beer for it. Might be a good time to try such an experiment between extracts and all-grain.
Love this channel! Those flexzilla hoses are awesome. I'm not sure but I think maybe you did a review on one which led me to buy one. Great show as always Larry thanks!!
Like you I've started with extract, a while back I tried an extract on my RoboBrew 110 volt had long heating and boiling time, my extracts end up being darker than they claim, wonder if that's some of the taste difference, maybe you should try heating just until homogenized temp only, or very short boil time, see how it turns out
Love your channel Larry. My experience echos yours. With extract, I have found that the darker the beer the more chance of success. Recently my friend was clamoring for a Coffee Stout so I decided to start with an extract kit for sake of simplicity. I selected MoreBeer's "Stout" kit which is fairly easy to obtain. It's is an extract with specialty grains. Your typical extract kit. I was surprised at how well it turned out. It tastes great. I've tried other styles though and it doesn't seem the same. The lighter the beer the worse it got for me. I recently did an English bitter and I can tell it just was not the same. What I find interesting is the number of 2nd round pics at beer competitions that use extract for more than 50% of the fermentables. Peace Bro.
Maybe try this distilled water takes all the minerals out of the water. Try using either freshly boiled water or a spring water. They would have to sanitize the spring water jugs before putting the water in.
When I started brewing wine and beer it was before the internet really took off. My brew store said if your water tastes good to you use it. And that is what I do now
I was really curious as to how that brew came out I also brew in my garage and while I love the craft it’s just too darn cold, I have thought about doing a small all grain batch on the stove but my wife really dislikes the smell, I started brewing all grain and have never brewed an extract. Maybe I’ll try it.
Try and IPA next. For me the hoppy beers turn out better with extract. In an English Mild the malt is the star and I think extracts will stand out more. I've made some extract IPAs that will stand up to any all grain IPAs I've made, but I've never made a great malty beer. Good, but not great.
That’s a valid suggestion. IPAs are a great fallback since they cover up defects in a beer. This is why new brewers are encouraged to brew them first. It’d definitely mask any defects.
Hi Larry. Glad to see you are okay and doing well. As a home distiller, maybe I can help out in a tiny bit. Basically it's the water and the extracts themselves that changes the flavor. The extracts often have preservatives added to them while being processed mainly for storage and shipping. While not harmful or anything like that, these carry over to your wort and produce off flavors during the fermentation process. Using fresh grains eliminates the preservatives and gives you a much cleaner fermentation which results in a better tasting beer and/or wine. Another thing is the fact that you stopped using distilled water which is neutral in flavor and has nothing in it. There's no character and/or minerals in distilled water and it has a PH level of around 7 which is neutral. The tap water you are using has vitamins and minerals in it along with a character to it. The best ph level for grains is 5.2.
Interesting thought on preservatives. Wasn’t aware of that. But, I am not sure about extracts not having minerals. From what I’ve learned years ago, I was under the impression that extracts already have minerals in them resulting from the water used to produce them. This is why it’s been said to use distilled water when brewing with extracts because the extract already had minerals in it. I think the issue is that we don’t know how much minerals are in them since the manufacturers do not lose them on the package.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY that could be the case. I've got a healthy 2.5 gallon batch of cranberry brandy going at the moment. I did have a sweet corn wash going but I had to pour it out. We dropped 40 degrees in temperature this past weekend and this drop cold crashed my mash and I was out of everything and could not save it. Gravity reading of this cranberry brandy is 1.160 and if it ferments out to 1.000, I'll have 21% ABV.
Haven't done extract in many years myself. My biggest complaint about extract is you can't get the blonde color using extract. I'd get a cream ale extract kit and it would come out looking like a pale ale. I miss doing extract. Cheers Larry, thanks for convincing me to give it another shot!
Maybe try adding the extract in the last 15 minutes of the boil instead of up front which should help prevent it darkening too much. Still won’t be as pale as all grain but better than before.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I was doing that as well, I'd add some up front but the majority in the back end of the boil. I was also only using liquid extract which seems to be darker than dry. BTW, that's a beast of a chiller you have!!
Since going all grain I have gone back and made a couple extract simply because of the time savings and equipment used. I did an extract 3 Floyd's Dark Lord clone that came pretty good, so maybe darker higher gravity beers would come out better than light lower gravity styles when doing extract? I may have to try and brew another to see. Cheers!
I think treating the extract brewing the same as an all grain..ie water treatment..full boil...etc ..the results are fairly comparable...the all grain will always be fresher and lighter due to less oxidation...but in a pinch there's nothing wrong with extract to save time...
Full boil certainly. Next time. It’ll just take longer due to limited BTUs of my stove. However, you really cannot treat the water similarly because extracts already contain amounts of various unknown minerals from the brewing water used to make it originally. You don’t know what you’re starting with. It’s a guessing game to know what additional minerals to add to make the extract wort comparable to a an all grain wort.
I just started getting into homebrewing beer. On my 5th batch & they've all been extract or partial mash kits. Def want to try an all grain, as I do have the equip to do it... By the way, is that a U of I plaque in the background??? Both my parents went there & I was this close to going, but out of state tuition was just too much. That was 30 years ago, and now my oldest is heading off to college next year. Egads, the cost!!! No wonder why I drink...
Illini? Yes. In state tuition is too expensive today as well which is why my daughter is going out of state to Wisconsin which is actually cheaper than any in state state college here in Illinois.
I always brew an extract when brewing an all grain. Not much more work. All grain is great but extract is also good. Agree most extract kits are average but I had some that really good. I think it also depends on the style brew and ingredients.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY few reasons. Efficiency. I only have one Mash tun so I brew extract while other is mashing for 60 or 90 minutes. Basically it gives me 2 different style batches in the same time to make 1 all grain. Plus avoids another brew day later on to fit in. Now I always do both on brew days.
Also use spring water. Distilled is lower in oxygen content. Some say unnatural to beer and wine making. “Off flavors” what does that really mean anyway? Sure some favors are bad but we know what they are and the cause right?
Love the Snow. When I did extract especially years ago the beer almost always had a tin twang to it. Did you have similar tastes years ago? Kind of funny seeing an extract in your Spreadsheet.
I never even considering checking that. I did use a proportionate amount of water for the amount of grain so I’d expect it to be in the general range needed, but a check would have been nice in hindsight. Thanks.
HI Larry, I have a question. I just finished up a brew day. the recipe called for a 3500 ml starter. My OG prior to pitching was 1.056. Once i pitched the starter it dropped to 1.044. when i calculate the ABV should i use the 1.056 or the 1.044. I typically decant the starter but i saw a few of your videos and you pitch the entire starter. I wanted to give that a try and see if i get and differences. Thank in advance for your reply.
Wow. That's a lot of yeast starter for such a small batch of beer. I assume that it is a smaller batch because going from 1.056 to1.044 because of a starter tells me that the starter is a large proportion of the batch size. Most of my starters are only 600-800 mL for a 5.5 gal (~21 L) batch of average beer, or about double for a 11 gallon batch of ale or pressure fermented lager. You'd want to use the 1.044 because that is now your O.G..
i agree about the size of the starter. however, its what brewfather called for and i've always had difficulty getting my numbers in the right parameters when i, brewing a lager. i've never used a starter bigger than 1000ml. i always finish high though. so i wanted to see if this would get things where they need to be. shooting for 1.012.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY funny you said that. lol. i always do my best to get the oxygen level up before pitching. i watched your dunkel video (my wifes favorite) and you preferred the bavarian lager 2206. so thats what i have been using. I made a festbier and it called for the WLP830. the 2206 took forever to get going and it finished high (thats with a 1000 ml starter) the WLP830 came right down to where it needed to be with no starter. i used the WLP830 for this current brew day (which was a dortmunder export) and with that starter i didn't even get finished cleaning up and i heard the blow off tube chugging away. im not sure if that's good or bad but i'm down to 1.041 just over night. BTW... the 5000ml flask makes my wife and kids laugh. they said i look like a mad scientist LOL
Larry I do the extract. I've done one all grain. It turned out fairly well I just really don't want to buy more gear. Water issues- I go to our Gro Store loading up filtered water in a 5 gal container. Never had a problem. I'm not a beer snob so what I make is drank. I've had folks that drank a Natty Ice over a offer of my Home Brew Bottle, well thats their loss. I Never offered again, I don't spend all my time to do beer to get shot in the ass by refusal of my HB I went to Kegs soon afterward. Bottling was to much trouble and didn't want to spend a day Bottling either , then waiting 2 weeks. Screw that. I do my best to stay away from Box store Beers. TO damn Pricey and not worth the money to me. I'm sure with some more gadgets to fine tune I'm sure I can get a better quality of beer as those of local Pop up Breweries. All in all it's in the taste buds of the person drinking it. They have named streets after me Now " One way" Its good for me and thats all that matters. I haven't looked but have you done a Sour Ale? I tried some over in Lower Alabama Brew house that got my attention. Different and not to bad.
Thanks for the input. I, too, use filtered or distilled water, but neither is truly sanitized unless it's boiled (or at least pasteurized), so a risk always exists for off flavors when topping up extract batches in the fermenter. Good to hear you have not had any issues. I think I'll switch to a full wort boil next time instead of a concentrated wort boil to eliminate that as a suspect. I've never done a true traditional sour ale; only fruit beers with tart yeast/bacteria contributions during fermentation.
That can be unfortunate. I have a backup plan for bad beer when it happens next time; distillation. Might as well get some use of it. Like the saying goes, “If life gives you a lemon, make lemonade.”. Of course, I’d prefer whiskey. 😉
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Thanks Larry. Good vid. I occasionally squeeze in an extract batch as well. For the same reasons. Less work. Less cleanup. Simpler. Less time commitment. But I still do a full wort boil. I
You are the reason I got up the courage to switch to all grain Larry. I noticed my beers getting better and better all the time I never had a “wow” moment with extract myself. Thanks
I have never thought about extract brewing, but it's always nice to look on both sides of the fence.
I have gone back to extract partial mash after 2 decades hiatus. I find water chemistry makes a huge difference. i will eventually get back to all grain, but for now I am happy with my results.
Love your Dilbert cartoons.
Extract has definitely been getting better, but it would be interesting to see how it will compare to an all grain batch!
Sounds like an experiment waiting to happen. I'd have to use different brew systems to brew concurrent batches though which could influence the outcome. Still may be worth a try.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Check out The Homebrew Challenge channel. He just did a comparison twice and comparing the differences.
Part of the problem with converting extract recipes to all grain and all grain recipes to extract is figuring out what the extracts were made with. Some are easy while others are not. So, at best, comparing the "same" recipe made with both methods is going to a little bit of comparing apples and oranges.
I recently brewed a dark mild ale all grain recipe from AIH. Missouri dark mild. It is one of my favorite beers that I have made for the cold weather.
Hoping to move to all grain this year after 10ish years of extract. my goal was to 'perfect' my extract process. i haven't used a kit in years but rather recipes from books (Brewing Classic Styles) and that has helped. Using upgraded equipment ( Spike fermenter and others ), maintaining fermentation temps, oxygenating the wort, and then close transferring to kegs has made my pale ales pretty damn good. excited to see how it improves or compares with all grain. nice channel. appreciate the insight and detail.
Always enjoy your company, Larry!
Cheers Larry! Here’s to hoping your winter weather doesn’t keep you inside for too much longer!
Thanks. I’m going stir crazy. I hate winter.
Larry, I subbed you a year ago, and now I’ve seen every single one of your videos. Some, 3-8 times to learn. I watch the live shows. I’ve absorbed it all. The reason?…you’re always doing something so radically different than the other shows. I think it’s your engineering background. You’re analytical and you just wanna know “why”. I watch You’re saying things no one else does. Even this extract episode is interesting because your approach and teaching is different. We appreciate it. Have a great week and thanks.
Thanks for the great feedback and compliment!
I second this! Larry for president! Ha
since I have gone from all grain to extract, i have done the following. Depending on beer style I pick a yeast to complement the style. I will also do a mini mash or a steeping depending on my level of energy. :) I have had my local homebrew club taste these beers and cant determine how they were brewed.
Glad it’ll see someone else with a Dark Mild on tap. Mine was all grain, but delicious is delicious.
It’s an interesting style. Dark colored but lighter in alcohol and body than most lagers. Was a hard sell on some people that only drink “light beer” simply due to the color. They were of course surprised after being badgered into trying it.
I'll be looking for the all grain counterpart vidya. I am sure that comparison is gonna rent some space in your head brother. I know it would mine. Cheers Buddy.
It does nag me.
Hi Larry, Thanks for the video. I love to mix up my brewing between extract and all grain! Beer is Beer!
Hey Lary. My experience to make a better tasing extract brew is to add from one to two lbs of "specialty" grain of your choice if you're brewing by kit.
Excellent. Good thing I did that. 😉
Yeah, I would add the water adjustments for the style and not worry too much about the extract chemistry. I would also use some other things like flaked barley for head retention. Even if you don’t go with a complete partial mash add some grains for flavor and body according to the style.
I'd chalk it up to the top-up water and use of distilled. I'd try a small partial mash, in your smaller pot, and then top up with spring or filtered tap water. I've done some partial mash 5 gallon batches in my Anvil Foundry 6.5... and topped up with about 1.5 gallons of preboiled water and had some pretty good results.
Thanks for the feedback. That's exactly what I did; partial mash and top up with distilled water in pot before adding extract.
The beer did taste kinda flat which made me suspect a lack of minerals. The challenge with extract brewing is knowing what and how much to add since you do not know the mineral content of the extract to know what you should add and how much of it. It's a guessing game until you can brew it a number of times with varying amounts until you can dial it in.
Great video Larry! I'm coming across this two years later but thought I'd chime in. I do a mix of both all-grain and extract and of the two best beers I've made in the last year or so (and by "best" I essentially mean "the one I wanted to drink the most/lasted in my kegs the least amount of time") were an all-grain Amber Ale, and an extract + steeping grains Citra Pale Ale. I haven't yet compared an extract recipe head-to-head with the equivalent all-grain recipe, but since I just kegged an extract Porter and have the right ingredients on hand to do the all-grain equivalent it might be good timing.
As far as some tips that I've seen get me better results with extract:
1. Treat the steeping like a mini mash of sorts, meaning as opposed to following some instructions that tell you to throw your grains in your water and take them out after 20 minutes or before you hit 170 degrees F, I get my water to around 150F or so (depending on what grains I'm using) and hold it there for 30 minutes. I'm not sure this matters as much as I think it does, but it makes me feel better. :)
2. Related to #1, you probably want to add some water treatment if you're starting with RO or distilled water. The bit about the extract already taking care of that for you is essentially true, but adding some style-appropriate salts to your water (provided you're starting with RO or distilled water) can help. The amounts will be less than you'd do with all-grain but for example adding a bit of gypsum for IPAs and other styles that you want to be on the drier side, or some calcium chloride for maltier styles, can help quite a bit. If you're using tap water it'd be ideal to get a water report so you know what you're starting with. John Palmer has a thorough discussion and concrete suggestions in "How to Brew" (chapter 8 specifically). Personally I found that if I use RO water with no additions it comes out too "smooth" and lacked the bit of mineral bite for something like an IPA. It works OK for more malty styles but small water additions definitely help give it a little extra something.
3. Do full-volume boils if possible. I brew 2.5 gallon batches so that might be easy for me to say ;-) but it definitely helps. I have a 240V induction burner and a 5.5 gallon Anvil kettle that work great for both BIAB and extract.
4. Don't boil all the extract, at least not the entire time. The extract is sanitary enough that technically speaking you could -- assuming sanitized equipment -- throw it in cold water, pitch some yeast, and get beer. But unless you're using hopped malt extract you're going to want to add hops of course, and the hop utilization will be different without malt in the mix than with it. (There's some difference of opinion on this, but that's my take.) What I've had good luck with is after steeping whatever grains you're using, add half the malt extract as you bring things to a boil, and then add the remainder of the extract toward the end of the boil. I tend to add the second half of the extract right before I drop my immersion chiller into the pot because messing with extract with your chiller in the pot seems like a nightmare. Some people add the second half at flameout, but if you do that I guess you'd have to chill with something other than an immersion chiller (or Star San your chiller? seems weird ...). At any rate, this can help keep the beer lighter in color and in theory helps avoid any potential "extract twang."
So after you do all this, is it actually and quicker or easier than all-grain? Maybe not. :) I often do extract batches when I'm experimenting with fruit or other additions, different yeasts, etc., simply because A) it can be a bit quicker to crank these out, and B) it eliminates the variables of mash temperature, water adjustments (to a certain degree), grain crush issues, efficiency, etc., and lets me focus on the experimental part of the brew. Then once I get that part dialed in, I'll take a run at an all-grain version to give it that extra bit of something, particularly if the recipe would benefit from some base grains that you can't get in extract.
Anyway, that's what I find works well for me. Thanks for this great video and ALL your great videos over the years! I've learned a ton from you and it's much appreciated.
Hello Larry, thanks for the fresh extract (pun intended) content! Mixing it up can be a good changeup.
Yeah. I ignored extract brewing as an option for years. Was nice to be able to brew on a Tuesday evening and be cleaned up and put away in just a few hours instead of planning a full all grain brew day on a weekend.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I hear ya, I love brewing on my big system, but brewing is an event. So recently I started doing some small batch work. It's much easier when the brewing vessels fit inside your sink.
Hello Larry from Victoria Australia, I've been all grain brewing now for 6 years and I also thought the same, 'I wonder if I brewed an extract now would I be able to tell the difference or have they improved the extract since then so I gave it a crack and brewed up a stout with specialty grains like roasted barley and chocolate malt, I reckon with extract the more specially grains you use and the more hops you use the better flavor you get and it was actually a good beer.
Hey Larry, greetings from Sweden. I do extract brewing with grain steeping, mainly motivated by saving space. This was an interesting video, but I am mainly commenting since it is a new one. I came directly from your old Fermentasaurus review (which got the idea of a conical out of my head) and just wanted to say that your videos have become so damn good since then! The old ones are still good, but the change in camera angles, audio quality and presentation has become really great on your channel. It is noticeable that you put a lot of work into this, and it is really paying off for the audience. Thank you for the time you put into your videos!
Thank you for the great feedback!
I just brewed a Oatmeal Stout extract kit that was given to me, and I added 1 lb of Molasses to it. I just bottled it so can't tell us how it tastes yet.
Great video Larry. I'm an "All Grain" snob...but lets be honest...there are some REALLY good extract beers out there. Brewers Best Mexican Cerveza is one of my favorites...I manage to sneak it in my rotation of brews once a year...SHHHHHHH, don't tell my friends...LOL!
Right on!
I'm a novice brewer of not even a year. Have only used Brewer's Best kits and they are easy, affordable and make decent beer. Good place to start for sure anyways..
I just ordered The Plinian Progeny extract kit for my second brew! the Frist one turned out great i did a Cariboo Slobber brown ale from northern brewer. cant wait to get to brew day and try this one out!! love your video Larry again lots of insight about brewing your own beer.
Excellent. Glad it turned it well.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Have you brewed this type of beer all grain? would love to see a live brew day on something like this. I will Eventually go all grain but the equipment cost is kind of holding me back right now.
@@danieltalarico620 I never heard of that extract kit you mentioned. I have a homebrew recipe playlist on TH-cam and a beer recipe section on my website listing all the beers I’ve brewed since 2012. Maybe comb through there to see if there is something that is similar.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I'll defiantly check that out and see what you have. I know its a Triple IPA with 3 dry hop additions estimated time from brew day to bottling would be 8 weeks
Larry, Great Video. I've only been brewing beer for two years and have only done extract and partial mash kit recipes. I always thought my beer was good but not great. The flavor of the extract beers that I've brewed are not as crisp or flavorful as I would have hoped for. I've been upgrading my equipment over the winter and will be doing my first all-grain batch in March. Working toward a making better beer. Cheers!
I remember when I transitioned from extract to all grain. I did not have a burner, so I was forced to use the kitchen stove and two small kettles. I set up a five gallon water cooler for the mash, and I used one kettle for the DME, and the other for the all grain wort. I combined the two in a 6.5 gallon carboy. I had to top off to 5 gallons with bottled water. I too experienced considerable anxiety with the possible content of the water. All ended well most of the time, lol. The biggest issue i have had brewing is oxygen. My transferring system has since changed. O2 is no longer a problem. Cheers!
That’s a solution for sure. I only have one “super burner” though. It’d take forever to heat up another pot on another smaller burner. I switched to full wort boils in the later years of extract brewing. Made a huge difference if I recall correctly, but it added at least another hour to my brew day waiting for it all to heat up.
I think it's about freshness. Steeping specialty grains helps bring some of that in. Also If you can't do a full boil, instead of doing a concentrated boil, add the bulk of the extract in the last 10-15min or pasteurize in another pot and mix after. The hops have an easier time imparting flavours in a lower concentration. Dry hopping can also help bring in some of that freshness too.
Too bad I chose a style that is totally not hoppy. lol
LARRYS BACK!
love me some extract!
Interesting. You answered alot of my questions and i learned some things. Thanks!
Excellent! You are welcome.
You inspired me to try a brown ale. Also got the Jaded and think salts will make it pop.
An English Brown Ale is next on my to brew list.
I’ve never tried a Northern Brewer all grain kit next to their extract version. I imagine they test brew a few to get them close. That might be a future episode if you could brew them at the same time with the same water, etc. I’ve always felt that extract, even at its freshest has already been mashed and condensed and then we boil it all over again. We simply don’t do this with grain…..
That would be interesting. I've never done a beer kit before. Never been a fan of them since they do not take your system's mash efficiency into account (how could they, right?) causing me to buy additional grains anyway.
I'm throwing a big bash in a couple months, so I'll needs lots of beer for it. Might be a good time to try such an experiment between extracts and all-grain.
Love this channel! Those flexzilla hoses are awesome. I'm not sure but I think maybe you did a review on one which led me to buy one. Great show as always Larry thanks!!
Possibly. This is a variant of the recirculating wort chiller I've shown in videos I've done previously.
Like you I've started with extract, a while back I tried an extract on my RoboBrew 110 volt had long heating and boiling time, my extracts end up being darker than they claim, wonder if that's some of the taste difference, maybe you should try heating just until homogenized temp only, or very short boil time, see how it turns out
Love your channel Larry. My experience echos yours. With extract, I have found that the darker the beer the more chance of success. Recently my friend was clamoring for a Coffee Stout so I decided to start with an extract kit for sake of simplicity. I selected MoreBeer's "Stout" kit which is fairly easy to obtain. It's is an extract with specialty grains. Your typical extract kit. I was surprised at how well it turned out. It tastes great. I've tried other styles though and it doesn't seem the same. The lighter the beer the worse it got for me. I recently did an English bitter and I can tell it just was not the same. What I find interesting is the number of 2nd round pics at beer competitions that use extract for more than 50% of the fermentables. Peace Bro.
Maybe try this distilled water takes all the minerals out of the water. Try using either freshly boiled water or a spring water. They would have to sanitize the spring water jugs before putting the water in.
When I started brewing wine and beer it was before the internet really took off. My brew store said if your water tastes good to you use it. And that is what I do now
I was really curious as to how that brew came out I also brew in my garage and while I love the craft it’s just too darn cold, I have thought about doing a small all grain batch on the stove but my wife really dislikes the smell, I started brewing all grain and have never brewed an extract. Maybe I’ll try it.
Try and IPA next. For me the hoppy beers turn out better with extract. In an English Mild the malt is the star and I think extracts will stand out more. I've made some extract IPAs that will stand up to any all grain IPAs I've made, but I've never made a great malty beer. Good, but not great.
That’s a valid suggestion. IPAs are a great fallback since they cover up defects in a beer. This is why new brewers are encouraged to brew them first. It’d definitely mask any defects.
Hi Larry. Glad to see you are okay and doing well. As a home distiller, maybe I can help out in a tiny bit. Basically it's the water and the extracts themselves that changes the flavor. The extracts often have preservatives added to them while being processed mainly for storage and shipping. While not harmful or anything like that, these carry over to your wort and produce off flavors during the fermentation process. Using fresh grains eliminates the preservatives and gives you a much cleaner fermentation which results in a better tasting beer and/or wine. Another thing is the fact that you stopped using distilled water which is neutral in flavor and has nothing in it. There's no character and/or minerals in distilled water and it has a PH level of around 7 which is neutral. The tap water you are using has vitamins and minerals in it along with a character to it. The best ph level for grains is 5.2.
Interesting thought on preservatives. Wasn’t aware of that. But, I am not sure about extracts not having minerals. From what I’ve learned years ago, I was under the impression that extracts already have minerals in them resulting from the water used to produce them. This is why it’s been said to use distilled water when brewing with extracts because the extract already had minerals in it. I think the issue is that we don’t know how much minerals are in them since the manufacturers do not lose them on the package.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY that could be the case. I've got a healthy 2.5 gallon batch of cranberry brandy going at the moment. I did have a sweet corn wash going but I had to pour it out. We dropped 40 degrees in temperature this past weekend and this drop cold crashed my mash and I was out of everything and could not save it. Gravity reading of this cranberry brandy is 1.160 and if it ferments out to 1.000, I'll have 21% ABV.
Haven't done extract in many years myself. My biggest complaint about extract is you can't get the blonde color using extract. I'd get a cream ale extract kit and it would come out looking like a pale ale. I miss doing extract. Cheers Larry, thanks for convincing me to give it another shot!
Maybe try adding the extract in the last 15 minutes of the boil instead of up front which should help prevent it darkening too much. Still won’t be as pale as all grain but better than before.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I was doing that as well, I'd add some up front but the majority in the back end of the boil. I was also only using liquid extract which seems to be darker than dry. BTW, that's a beast of a chiller you have!!
Since going all grain I have gone back and made a couple extract simply because of the time savings and equipment used. I did an extract 3 Floyd's Dark Lord clone that came pretty good, so maybe darker higher gravity beers would come out better than light lower gravity styles when doing extract? I may have to try and brew another to see. Cheers!
Larry...I just watched this video. I see the U of I hat in the backdrop. I am an alum of the U of I and was pleased to see the Chief! ILL-
INI
I like the different camera angles😂👍🏼
Gotta shake it up somehow.
Lmao perfect👍🏼
I think treating the extract brewing the same as an all grain..ie water treatment..full boil...etc ..the results are fairly comparable...the all grain will always be fresher and lighter due to less oxidation...but in a pinch there's nothing wrong with extract to save time...
Full boil certainly. Next time. It’ll just take longer due to limited BTUs of my stove.
However, you really cannot treat the water similarly because extracts already contain amounts of various unknown minerals from the brewing water used to make it originally. You don’t know what you’re starting with. It’s a guessing game to know what additional minerals to add to make the extract wort comparable to a an all grain wort.
I just started getting into homebrewing beer. On my 5th batch & they've all been extract or partial mash kits. Def want to try an all grain, as I do have the equip to do it...
By the way, is that a U of I plaque in the background??? Both my parents went there & I was this close to going, but out of state tuition was just too much. That was 30 years ago, and now my oldest is heading off to college next year. Egads, the cost!!! No wonder why I drink...
Illini? Yes. In state tuition is too expensive today as well which is why my daughter is going out of state to Wisconsin which is actually cheaper than any in state state college here in Illinois.
I always brew an extract when brewing an all grain. Not much more work. All grain is great but extract is also good. Agree most extract kits are average but I had some that really good. I think it also depends on the style brew and ingredients.
You brew both methods every time? Interesting. Is there a reason?
I have yet to try an extract kit.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY few reasons. Efficiency. I only have one Mash tun so I brew extract while other is mashing for 60 or 90 minutes. Basically it gives me 2 different style batches in the same time to make 1 all grain. Plus avoids another brew day later on to fit in. Now I always do both on brew days.
Also use spring water. Distilled is lower in oxygen content. Some say unnatural to beer and wine making. “Off flavors” what does that really mean anyway? Sure some favors are bad but we know what they are and the cause right?
Love the Snow. When I did extract especially years ago the beer almost always had a tin twang to it. Did you have similar tastes years ago? Kind of funny seeing an extract in your Spreadsheet.
Yeah. I added support for extract brewing a number of versions ago and had yet to actually use it in that manner.
I don’t taste and twang with this batch. It could be because of the small amount of extract used.
I would watch PH in particular. Especially since you're doing a Partial mask. It can't hurt! Take care Larry!
I never even considering checking that. I did use a proportionate amount of water for the amount of grain so I’d expect it to be in the general range needed, but a check would have been nice in hindsight. Thanks.
Hi Larry, here is Summer, Sun and rain, do You have any for this kind of weather.
You mean a beer style?
sounds like you need a robo brew for inside of your home, and a sink adapter for the chiller
That won’t work either. I already have a Grainfather, but I cannot tie up my kitchen for that long.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY it has handles could just keep it out of the way, until chiller time, would suck to move not gonna lie, or move to a no chill cube
HI Larry, I have a question. I just finished up a brew day. the recipe called for a 3500 ml starter. My OG prior to pitching was 1.056. Once i pitched the starter it dropped to 1.044. when i calculate the ABV should i use the 1.056 or the 1.044. I typically decant the starter but i saw a few of your videos and you pitch the entire starter. I wanted to give that a try and see if i get and differences. Thank in advance for your reply.
Wow. That's a lot of yeast starter for such a small batch of beer. I assume that it is a smaller batch because going from 1.056 to1.044 because of a starter tells me that the starter is a large proportion of the batch size.
Most of my starters are only 600-800 mL for a 5.5 gal (~21 L) batch of average beer, or about double for a 11 gallon batch of ale or pressure fermented lager.
You'd want to use the 1.044 because that is now your O.G..
i agree about the size of the starter. however, its what brewfather called for and i've always had difficulty getting my numbers in the right parameters when i, brewing a lager. i've never used a starter bigger than 1000ml. i always finish high though. so i wanted to see if this would get things where they need to be. shooting for 1.012.
I’ve found that good oxygenation and adding yeast nutrient, and picking the right yeast strains are also factors in getting to a lower final gravity.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY funny you said that. lol. i always do my best to get the oxygen level up before pitching. i watched your dunkel video (my wifes favorite) and you preferred the bavarian lager 2206. so thats what i have been using. I made a festbier and it called for the WLP830. the 2206 took forever to get going and it finished high (thats with a 1000 ml starter) the WLP830 came right down to where it needed to be with no starter. i used the WLP830 for this current brew day (which was a dortmunder export) and with that starter i didn't even get finished cleaning up and i heard the blow off tube chugging away. im not sure if that's good or bad but i'm down to 1.041 just over night. BTW... the 5000ml flask makes my wife and kids laugh. they said i look like a mad scientist LOL
Larry I do the extract. I've done one all grain. It turned out fairly well I just really don't want to buy more gear. Water issues- I go to our Gro Store loading up filtered water in a 5 gal container. Never had a problem.
I'm not a beer snob so what I make is drank. I've had folks that drank a Natty Ice over a offer of my Home Brew Bottle, well thats their loss. I Never offered again, I don't spend all my time to do beer to get shot in the ass by refusal of my HB I went to Kegs soon afterward. Bottling was to much trouble and didn't want to spend a day Bottling either , then waiting 2 weeks. Screw that. I do my best to stay away from Box store Beers. TO damn Pricey and not worth the money to me. I'm sure with some more gadgets to fine tune I'm sure I can get a better quality of beer as those of local Pop up Breweries. All in all it's in the taste buds of the person drinking it. They have named streets after me Now " One way" Its good for me and thats all that matters.
I haven't looked but have you done a Sour Ale? I tried some over in Lower Alabama Brew house that got my attention. Different and not to bad.
Thanks for the input. I, too, use filtered or distilled water, but neither is truly sanitized unless it's boiled (or at least pasteurized), so a risk always exists for off flavors when topping up extract batches in the fermenter. Good to hear you have not had any issues.
I think I'll switch to a full wort boil next time instead of a concentrated wort boil to eliminate that as a suspect.
I've never done a true traditional sour ale; only fruit beers with tart yeast/bacteria contributions during fermentation.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Well Larry i have had a couple issues/beer fail. I still managed to down them. It was near the beginning of making home brew..
That can be unfortunate. I have a backup plan for bad beer when it happens next time; distillation. Might as well get some use of it. Like the saying goes, “If life gives you a lemon, make lemonade.”. Of course, I’d prefer whiskey. 😉
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Yep! Cheers!😜
I recently made a fruit extract brew. I think it tastes pretty good!
I brew both. It is all beer.
not my cup of tea, only for starter here. Thanks anyway for the video !