Perlite vs Vermiculite - Pizza Oven Comparisons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Comparing pizza ovens made from perlite and vermiculite.
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About Food Related
Hello! My name is Tom. I'm a teacher, sailor and creator.
I love making stuff, but especially when it's got anything to do with food.
I love to grow food.
I love to build food contraptions/inventions/creations.
I LOVE to eat stuff!
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If you check concrete technology, grey cement powder is more suited to construction. Great job, however, I think the issue is not so much white versus grey, but perhaps the addition of chicken mesh, water to cement ratio, drying methods (heat) and perhaps perlite, you certainly gave me something to think and research, thanks
There are basically 2 differences between grey cement and white cement......... color and cost.
I love it when people tell you you're doing it wrong 😂
You need a video of your family knocking back pizzas on Christmas Day.
Good on ya, I'm envious.
Super!!! Thank you very much from Russia. This is very valuable information!
Thanks you have convinced me on 2 ovens. A perlite dome for pizzas and a barrel for longer cooking needs.
Very interesting, thank you! I am building a brick oven (I can buy bricks rated to 1100C) capped with concrete then Perlite concrete. I also used Perlite cement to insulate the slab from the firebrick hearth.
Sounds like a great idea.
Regular brick is basically a heat sink material. It's good at absorbing and holding energy, but it doesn't insulate very well. The perlite will help some.
For added strength, you can do a portland wash over whatever aggregate you decide, then wrap it in a furnace blanket and mesh n render it up.
This is what I've been wondering. I can't figure out why the people making these ovens don't follow up with an insulation blanket and mesh/render. Surely this adds longevity, thermal efficiency etc etc?
hi i normally use Vermiculite but find the same issues you did so might try Perlte. My question is what mm Perlite ............ OK just saw your perlite oven video and on the bag it says P400 so now i know. 👍👍👍👍 even funnier i just saw the name on the bag and realized you in NZ as well 😁. Love the videos, just subscribed. So a drive to Auckland and i will be starting my second wood oven in a few weeks. built first one out or red clay fire bricks that was the best oven worked so well, Also my first video for YT of making that oven.
Great vid what are you slab bases made of
A very cheerful and informative comparison. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Ha! My favorite new channel. Building stuff to cook food 😄
Thanks!
Great project for school kids. They could probably get NCEA physics credits...😊
Could you post a tutorial podcast on your next build please with the info like mould set up. quantities of cement, perlite etc. Thanks enjoyed your vid can you build me one, lol.
Great work. I have my gym ball and am on the cusp of beginning my own oven. A few questions please:
Hello Gentlemen. Perhaps a foolish question but would you be indicating 5:1 or 4:1 perlite:cement by weight or volume?
Did you pour your ovens floor out of the same material? Yours appears to be segmented but it's difficult to tell if it's poured in place or cast prior.
Do you have a sense of the weight of the completed oven?
Would you have a recommendation as to how to seal the dome once complete? I have to protect it from water infiltration as I get freeze/thaw here.
Would you recall how many bags of cement you required for the 10cm perlite oven?
Awesome! Well thanks for making the video. Just found your channel. I’ll be watching more. I’m in the process now of finishing up and bronco patio I should’ve built years ago. Ha. I’ve been wanting to build an oven like that for a while now and the good news is I can get perlite super cheap so I think I’m going to try my hand at it as soon as I get the patio finished.
Great!
Thanks for watching.
Good morning, I'm about to build a pizza oven but I'm having trouble finding perlite in Italy! I saw your video where you explain the pros and cons but I also saw that in the first oven you made some mistakes, for example not having put a reinforcement between the layers and having turned it on for the first time by heating it too much which caused the cracks. My question is this: since I can't find perlite I would like to make it in vermiculite by placing the mesh between the various layers and turning it on slowly the first few times. In your opinion, if it remains outdoors, the vermiculite is too weak to resist?
Nice. I'm torn on which one to make. Could a cement mixture of perlite & vermiculite both be mixed together for the oven dome?
I have seen people who dedicated 5 days to start the temperature in the oven starting from 175 degrees up to around 400 degrees, increasing it day by day - in any case I keep the idea of perlite in mind, I will certainly use that not only on the outside but also on the inside construction of the base together with expanded clay + refractory cement logically - greetings from Italy
Why don't you add over your oven with chicken wire and perlite?
Hi 👋 Great video. What was your ratio for perlite to cement to water? Thank you.
It's 5 perlite ; 2 cement and 2 water
Very useful comparison! Thanks for sharing. So I wonder why not just give your vermiculite oven another layre of perlite over top to fix it up nice and to save all the forming and other such jobs?
A great idea, and one I will explore further!
Yup I did that and 6 years ago and still bullet proof. Helps having mass.
The biggest secret to pizzas is a flaming single log on the side to create a flame over the top of the pie. 90 second is all it takes. Plus 2 or 3 turns
@ 06:15 "One of my top tips is not to fire it too hot"???? The whole point of getting a wood fire pizza oven built, besides great flavor, is to achieve the high heat = very hot. So how hot is too hot? Maybe if your pizza oven is constructed properly, then it should not crack due to being "too hot".
First vermiculite oven I built. Walls were too thin also...
Pearlite is actually Hydrated Obsidian, so perhaps the Lava came in contact with water, as such there is only a limited amount of Pearlite in the world.
oh my god, as you did reinforcement and another material-strength with the perlite, it actually is not comparable at all, is it??? Anyway: both are interesting materials, and THUMBS UP for posting!
Would like to send a photo of oven you helped me with. Cheers for the advice and inspiration
Pete
Do you use the fine prearlight or the course 😮
I see lots of clips using perlite for pizza ovens , then read on lots of websites that perlite is only suitable for filling holes in walls , and not for heat retaining ovens. Please ...... does the perlite retain enough heat to make a successful oven ? Cheers in advance.
What about fire blanket insulation in between the layers? Is that worth the extra effort/cost?
you used different cements, did you also do a cross comparison?
Any Calcium aluminate cement will do better than a Portland cement for heat resistance.
Consider adding rock wool to your mix to prevent cracking.
You showed up in my recommend today. I subscribed after watching your video.
Thanks for watching!!
What did you make the oven with?
What did you use on the floor of the pizza oven just regular bricks
No they are fire bricks
Hi as fire (fondu) cement is very expensive could I mix my vermiculite with normal Band Q cheap cement, also have you ever crushed old Red bricks and used them in a concrete type mix, love to hear your ideas thanks.
Looks good man. Stuff the cracks. If it works it works. :-)
Yea, I’m getting bag of refractory cement and perlite this weekend, total cost $60 ;) worth it
Hi Tom! Great Video BTW! COVID has given me and my brother plenty of time to go into our own Pizza oven project. Like you this was the first time we'd ever taken on such a project and we've pretty much been winging it ever since (a few set backs in the beginning... but still so much fun!)
Our oven is a vermiculite oven and approx double the thermal mass of your vermiculite one, and we are now at the stages of "curing" the oven. Quick question is how long did you cure yours for before working it up to a full firing?
Keep coming with the video updates!
Cheers!
Thanks for the feedback!
We cured the Vermiculite oven for 6 weeks in the summer before the first small fire. Then built up bigger and bigger fires up to 8 weeks then started using it.
Good luck. Half the fun is making it yourself!! Very satisfying!!
Great tip thank you. QUESTION - what did you use(recommend) for the base (floor) of the oven.
Source some firebricks if you can, or make your own slab using refractory mix
Food Related if I use refractory cement for a slab inside the pizza oven is it basically the same as fire bricks? Obviously food save
What's the ratio for perlite, water and white cement you used?
I think people use 1:1 perlite to cement. Not 100% sure tho
which ovens get the hotter temps, wat temps 800 degree? like neopolatan oven
Depending on wood, between 500-700.
Ours cooks pizza in less than 2 mins
Thank you for sharing great VS ! I did several experiments, finally always cracking. The last repair has been made with about 20 mm mix Portaland ciment + perelite on chicken wire/ Looks holding much more heat. What is your proportion mix ?
5:2:2
Perlite:cement:water
In the future I would use refractory cement to prevent the cracking issue
@@foodrelated is this horticultural perlite?
how about a thick layer of rock wool over it, and then then a water proof cover, to retain the heat a bit more.
Very helpful😊
Do you think increasing the amount of portland or FB mortar in the mix would increase the hardess of the vermiculate?
Perhaps and worth a try with a test brick.
Literally building my 2nd pizza oven today after the first one worked but cracked and was debating whether to try perlite
Also why do you cook on trays and not just on the floor?
Just easier to prep and move the pizzas around. The firebricks are not smooth ones. I would advise using refractory cement with the perlite to prevent cracking. Thanks for watching.
Very helpful video. As you said it's not really a fair comparison if they're not built to the same specifications (thickness, chicken wire). Did you use the same cement ratio in both?
Yes I think so
@@foodrelated interesting. I did mine with vermiculite cause that's what I could find at a decent price in Malta. Mixed it at 5:2 with portland cement and gone for a 6cm thickness with chicken wire reinforcement over the dome. It looks harder than what you show in the video ( I couldn't crush a piece between my fingers) but only time will tell. Maybe the heat weakens it.
@@cpsaila Question about keeping it from cracking on within the first 24-48hrs!:
My first go I tried 5 parts vermiculite to 1 part Portland cement to 2 parts water. It was so dry, almost like sand. So I added water until it barely stayed together. I ended up seeing small and thin cracks forming as I was building upwards. Decided to scrap that go.
The next mixture I added quite a bit more water until it was much easier to work with. Not liquidy, but very wet and gooy. Put a wet bedsheet over it. And rewet the whole top several times a day since it's so hot here in California. In 48hrs huge cracks formed.
The next go I did 10 vermiculite to 1 cement to 3.5 parts water. It was medium wetness. On the verge of going sandy, but smidegn wetter than that. Just not gooy. Decided to omit the damp bedsheet since it was a cold night. Came out the next morning, saw micro cracks. By afternoon huge cracks.
Any advice would be really appreciated. Should I add lime? Clay? Some have such low ratios. But what does that do to thermal insulation?
In the end that cracked within 12hrs.
@@Targ3tsh00t3r I suggest you try 5 vermiculite to 2 cement. Amount of water depends on your climatic conditions. I used around 2.5 parts in Malta which is quite warm. I also kept the whole thing moist to cure slowly, spraying it with water every few hours at first.
What material did you use to patch the cracks? Original mix or fire temp cement. Thank you.
Fire temp cement mix
Tom, Great Vid. how hot is too hot to fire a perlite oven? Thanks
I would guess over 500 degrees Celsius. Ideal cooking temp for pizza is around 450 anyway
Hi Thanks four posting this informative Video. Can I cook directly on the Perlite/concrete base (ie no firebricks) I have not made my oven yet, but think the base will be about three inches thick..Thanks
We don’t.
We use aluminium trays
Or you could lay firebricks/clay bricks on top
@@foodrelated I forgot to say,,I meant , can I cook Pizza directly on the Perlite Concrete base (no bricks)
From the different shows I've been watching you're not supposed to use Portland cement that is what's causing the oven to crack use masonry cement
Yep refractory would be better.
@@foodrelated there's another concern that I have with vermiculite I heard about 25 years ago it may contain some asbestos
How much cement / perlite do use meaning actual material used not mixing ratio im not sure how much i should buy... And if i were to go with refractory cement how many bags would it take to complete a full oven hope you can help !
100 litre bag would do everythibg
F D h
Are perlite oven ok outside or do they need a protective render/paint?
TBH I’m not sure how long it would last.
I’m sure it be fine for 5 years
Very interesting a helpful. What is the recipe for the perlite oven please?
All in this video
th-cam.com/video/DjDyB6Xy_as/w-d-xo.html
I think you are comparing too many diferences to make any conclusion about perlinte or vemiculite... You used different Cement, one is reinforced with wire the other isn't.. they are age wise too diferent too...
Bottom line...perlite is better.
Pizza ovens look great! I looked abit through the comments and cant find it it anywhere else, What volumes of Perlite/Vermiculite and cement do you use? and did you work to a 4:1 ratio with cement? thanks
3:1 volume ratio works best.
If you can go for refractory cement. It will mean no cracking 3-4 years later...
@@foodrelated 3 Perlite, 1 Refractory/Portland Cement, How many water?
I am also interested in the amount of water used :)
If I render the inside of my pizza oven with fire cement after I built it do you think that will help prevent cracking
Maybe. Would be interested to see the results.
@@foodrelated I will give it a go an get back to you with my results
@@leetett6888 Hello! I am under the same process! let me know how it goes!
Is building an oven completeley out of refractory mortar a good idea? I have alot extra
I don't see why not...
Ive never tried it but in theory i think it would work.
Looking to build a foundry to melt brass and aluminum...any input
Use perlite, plenty of videos on YT
Hi nice video
It will have better performance if you put a layer of fire clay inside ??
Thanks for the tip.
Thanks Michael McIntyre
HAHA not even close!
Before I go buying bags of perlite, following a rough size as those you have roughly what volume of perlite die you use. Cheers
I buy 100l bags of medium grade. The oven will use 60 ish litres
@@foodrelated brilliant thanks. This will be the next lockdown project
I bought a 200L bag and it might be just about enough. Building a brick oven with Perlite mortar insulation.
Hi, how much pearlite and how many cement bags would you advise?
Many thanks and great vids. 👍
See original build vid on my channel
What’s flooring made of
oke thanks for this super idea of titel video but wich matrial will be the best for extremly high degress like 500 degress
Use perlite and refractory cement
@@foodrelated thanks foor you comment ..and what you thinking about fire stone bricks or something
I wonder what a mix of perlite and vermiculite would do and how that would perform.
Not sure but worth making a test brick I reckon!
what composition of the solution do you make for making a stove?
See original video
Is it very light weight wise?
20-40kgs depending on thickness…
@@foodrelated
Would this perlite and cement mix be good for a rocket stove mass heater
Let's be honest , perlite and vermiculite are not the best for a pizza oven. It might be cheap to build but it won't last you for a long time and it won't keep the heat like a pizza oven should.
The best way is with refractory brick or cement . medium duty brick for the dome and high duty for the floor ( or higher quality, i use 50% alumina)
I've had mine for 12 years and it's in perfect condition
You are correct Sacha, and in the future I intend on making a more permanent oven from bricks.
Just giving a cheap alternative.
Hi. What kind and where do you get the fire cement from
Contact your local building supplies store or fireplace dealer and ask for refractory cement.
Hey guys,
Awesome youtube chanal and instagram page here. I was wondering how many pizza you could fit in a 60cm diameter build dome? You recon you could cook 10 pizza's/hour? Thx for all the info sharing
Yep easy
Can usually fit 2 at a time
What mix do you use, I'd like to make a Perlite oven?
Checkout the perlite oven series
Perlite.5:42
How much Perlite did you use for the oven?
1x100litre bag will suffice
What temp do you usually fire oven up to?
450 degrees Celsius
Great comparison! how hot is too hot? Thanks
Over 450 degrees Celsius
What is the (estimated) weight of this two?
Never weighed them, but would guess around 40-50kg
Cool vid thanks mon!
Thanks for watching
What have you used as a flue?
Copper pipe for the vermiculite oven and the owner of the Perlite one made a stainless one I think!
Hey thanks for the videos really helpful. I've bought vermiculite and am struggling with how soft it is, have you any recommendations on how to best dry it after applying to mold? I'm sitting on maybe 7-8 days and it's still very damp and crumbly but does hold the shape. I used a similar ratio to you. Thanks J
If you have used the same ratios it will eventually harden up. From memory I remember some loose material falling off the surface as it dried. It may just be a waiting game.
What about the weight comparison 😁
Perlite was slightly lighter from memory
I cast my oven last Sunday and reinforced it with slightly stronger mesh than chicken wire, I’m going to render it with sand and cement in a couple of weeks would you recommend reinforcing it again with the render coat ?
No I suspect it will be ok. Sounds good.
Food Related, Thanks for the reply, thought I might be over Engeneering it a little 👍
I fired mine a few times then rendered with sand/cement. Fired again a few times and rendered with coloured krend which is waterproof. Its now uncovered for the summer...
Peter McEvoy did you put any reinforcing in the render coat?
@@SD-rq2ob nope...had chicken wire and didn't use it. I found it fiddly. Ask me again in a few weeks if it was a success... More worried about steam under the render
Greetings from Christchurch Tom ..... Could you please PM me, just love your vidclips .... Cheers .... Keith ....
Thanks Keith
What can I do for you?
@@foodrelated Greetings again .... I am an Old Bugger already, an Engineer by nature and Trade, make Bacon, Cheese, Salami, do refrigeration as a Hobby, Pottery and the list goes on .... I have always wanted to make a Wood Fired Pizza Oven. The Flavour from a Wood fired Oven is just so different .... and ... being from Cape Town originally, that is what we All grew up with .... Just wanted to discuss a Little Mod about Oven Design, have not seen anything like this anywhere .... Not a Major, but a very subtle and Very Necessary mod .... Hence the request for a FB PM ....Would like to discuss it and maybe send a sketch too. All this because you seem to have done a Lot 'Work' already .... Cheers from ChCh
No worries, dm me on the food related Facebook Page.
You do realise that the hat is on back to front...
Chimney should be closer to the opening of the oven to retain heat and get the smoke away from your face.Some insulation and another layer would of made it lot more efficient.
I used ceramic blanket over oven shell to insulate and then rendered over to finish it. It's a bit larger but keeps hot all night
renderd over? can you explain what that means please and thank you?
@@bethsanchezyoga55 sand and cement plaster to a smooth finish 👍
what a great video , thanks for sharing my friend 👍
Thank you for great videos. One question. In my country it is not possible to buy neither Perlite nor Vermiculite. I would have to import it a great cost. Would you consider using any other lightweight material such as clay pebbles or pumice stone which are widely available here?
Very interesting video. A question: did you ever experimented using expanded clay instead of perlite or maybe even a combination of the 2, with a perlite based layer at the beginning followed with a thicker layer containing mainly expanded clay, but also a percentage of perlite to fill the spaced between the clay as it has a bigger dimension and leaves bigger gaps that have to be filled bi the cement?
Expanded clay has been already cooked at high temperature in the making process, is very light, so allows thicker wall without having a too heavy construction and thicker walls should lead to a better heath retention as the mass is the same, but there is more insulation.
Strange enough I never saw expanded clay in home made pizza ovens, maybe there is a proven reason why it does not work, but maybe it can really improve the result, so I ask to you, as you claim to don't be an expert, but you surely have experience and you give us a long term comparison, while most of the others show only the oven new, but don't give any feedback on its durability over time and use.
Thanks for the answer, hoping that you find the time to write it, if not I understand it. Ciao from Italy.
Hi
Firstly thanks for watching and your questions.
I have never used expanded clay but your logic seems right.
It would be worth trying for sure.
I really dont get the trend of using perlite and vermiculite.... Use proper refractory materials with a layer of ceramic fiber blanket on top of it and for your floor, put a ceramic fiber board under your refractory bricks or refractory cement.
Fair point. Just a cheaper alternative I guess
Hey man, most of us aren’t millionares.
Have you ever tried or considered mixing Perlite and Vermiculite in different ratios for your mix? I’ve been meaning to experiment with this idea. Furthermore I’ve considered first soaking Vermiculite in water for it to saturate and expand prior to mixing it with cement to make it more workable and to prevent cracking due to expansion when heated
I would not recomment the use of chickenmash. It's metal and it has an dufrent expending coeficient than the cement / perlite. One other thing is that cement morter has a chemical drying proces and less air drying. What you can do is to put your oven, after a view days depending on the thickness, in a water bad fully supmerged. Leav it in for at least 8 day's and then let it dry feurther. By puttibg it under water the chemicall drying proces gets enough time. Therefore it does not crack. Talk to people who are in the concrete business and rhey will tell you that they keep concrete foundation and slab's wet by regularly spaying it with water.
I mixed 6 parts perlite, 1 part refractory concrete, 1 part Portland cement, and water, for the oven floor under the tiles, It's been curing for 5 days, but it hasn't fully hardened yet. I can still dent the surface with my nail. Could it be that I used too much water, and it won't cure properly? Or will it just take more time? Or could it be the mix itself?
If you build another oven, you might add some chopped fiberglass to the mixture. That might also reduce the chances of cracking. Since it is pretty cheap, it might be worth trying.
What if you mix both vermiculite and perlite
Im getting ready for my first building a pizza oven i watch the videos to get courage and cofidence yours by far is the most confidence build simple but yet strengthening thanks bro
Thanks for watching
Why didn’t you use heat resistant cement instead of normal cement? With heat resistant cement the cement won’t crack until above 1200 degrees Celsius.
Tom, Can you believe it's been a year now? I have a wood fired oven because of you and your videos. I'm super happy with it. I'm trying to do some some real "oven" tasks now with it. Have you gone any further and tried any bread or meats in your oven's? I wanted to see if you have. Thanks again for the encouragement and the videos!! The Cooper family thanks you!!
Fantastic!
We’ve cooked all sorts, from spatchcocked jerk chicken to bread and butter pudding!
I was a plasterer many years ago, then a chef for quite some time.
Now a gardener, I'm looking forward to combining it all ASAP!
Thanks for your inspiring & clear videos
There are both wrong, so what is the point? Neither is a heat mass both are insulators
How would Refectory mortar work instead of refectory cement
great vid! 1st time sub'd!....how did you make the base with the stones? was that fire bricks or perlite hame made stones, if you have a link let me know , thanks mate!
Firebricks, laid on sand.
Ironman Taupo!!
Great video. Thanks man