Perlite vs Vermiculite - Pizza Oven Comparisons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2020
- Comparing pizza ovens made from perlite and vermiculite.
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About Food Related
Hello! My name is Tom. I'm a teacher, sailor and creator.
I love making stuff, but especially when it's got anything to do with food.
I love to grow food.
I love to build food contraptions/inventions/creations.
I LOVE to eat stuff!
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/ food_related_growbuildeat - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Im getting ready for my first building a pizza oven i watch the videos to get courage and cofidence yours by far is the most confidence build simple but yet strengthening thanks bro
Thanks for watching
A very cheerful and informative comparison. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Super!!! Thank you very much from Russia. This is very valuable information!
I have seen people who dedicated 5 days to start the temperature in the oven starting from 175 degrees up to around 400 degrees, increasing it day by day - in any case I keep the idea of perlite in mind, I will certainly use that not only on the outside but also on the inside construction of the base together with expanded clay + refractory cement logically - greetings from Italy
Thanks you have convinced me on 2 ovens. A perlite dome for pizzas and a barrel for longer cooking needs.
Great set of videos, This weekend I have started my build using Perlite and white cement & hydrated lime on the first layer, then wire mesh followed by perlite and ordinary cement(ran out of white cement) + hydrated lime on the 2nd layer. Now need to wait 6 - 8 weeks for it to cure and dry. Will give me time to build the base. Used you 5,2,2 method with 1/2 hydrated lime on top.
Thank you for this information. I was wondering about it.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Thanks man
Awesome! Well thanks for making the video. Just found your channel. I’ll be watching more. I’m in the process now of finishing up and bronco patio I should’ve built years ago. Ha. I’ve been wanting to build an oven like that for a while now and the good news is I can get perlite super cheap so I think I’m going to try my hand at it as soon as I get the patio finished.
Great!
Thanks for watching.
If you check concrete technology, grey cement powder is more suited to construction. Great job, however, I think the issue is not so much white versus grey, but perhaps the addition of chicken mesh, water to cement ratio, drying methods (heat) and perhaps perlite, you certainly gave me something to think and research, thanks
There are basically 2 differences between grey cement and white cement......... color and cost.
Great work. I have my gym ball and am on the cusp of beginning my own oven. A few questions please:
Hello Gentlemen. Perhaps a foolish question but would you be indicating 5:1 or 4:1 perlite:cement by weight or volume?
Did you pour your ovens floor out of the same material? Yours appears to be segmented but it's difficult to tell if it's poured in place or cast prior.
Do you have a sense of the weight of the completed oven?
Would you have a recommendation as to how to seal the dome once complete? I have to protect it from water infiltration as I get freeze/thaw here.
Would you recall how many bags of cement you required for the 10cm perlite oven?
Thanks for the info 👍
Thinking of building one what have you used for the base of the oven it looks like slabs 🤔 cheers 👍
Could you post a tutorial podcast on your next build please with the info like mould set up. quantities of cement, perlite etc. Thanks enjoyed your vid can you build me one, lol.
Enjoy watching your builds. I am presently building an oven. It’s currently a cardboard structure just over 70 cm. I was thinking about a castable refactory interior. Would a perlite/ refactory cement exterior afford the oven enough protection to hold heat in?
what a great video , thanks for sharing my friend 👍
You showed up in my recommend today. I subscribed after watching your video.
Thanks for watching!!
Chimney should be closer to the opening of the oven to retain heat and get the smoke away from your face.Some insulation and another layer would of made it lot more efficient.
Awesome video thank you, what is the base made off and if made the oven thicker would that hold the heat longer
Cheers Troy
For added strength, you can do a portland wash over whatever aggregate you decide, then wrap it in a furnace blanket and mesh n render it up.
This is what I've been wondering. I can't figure out why the people making these ovens don't follow up with an insulation blanket and mesh/render. Surely this adds longevity, thermal efficiency etc etc?
I used ceramic blanket over oven shell to insulate and then rendered over to finish it. It's a bit larger but keeps hot all night
renderd over? can you explain what that means please and thank you?
@@bethsanchezyoga55 sand and cement plaster to a smooth finish 👍
Great vid what are you slab bases made of
hi i normally use Vermiculite but find the same issues you did so might try Perlte. My question is what mm Perlite ............ OK just saw your perlite oven video and on the bag it says P400 so now i know. 👍👍👍👍 even funnier i just saw the name on the bag and realized you in NZ as well 😁. Love the videos, just subscribed. So a drive to Auckland and i will be starting my second wood oven in a few weeks. built first one out or red clay fire bricks that was the best oven worked so well, Also my first video for YT of making that oven.
Nice. I'm torn on which one to make. Could a cement mixture of perlite & vermiculite both be mixed together for the oven dome?
Good morning, I'm about to build a pizza oven but I'm having trouble finding perlite in Italy! I saw your video where you explain the pros and cons but I also saw that in the first oven you made some mistakes, for example not having put a reinforcement between the layers and having turned it on for the first time by heating it too much which caused the cracks. My question is this: since I can't find perlite I would like to make it in vermiculite by placing the mesh between the various layers and turning it on slowly the first few times. In your opinion, if it remains outdoors, the vermiculite is too weak to resist?
Very interesting, thank you! I am building a brick oven (I can buy bricks rated to 1100C) capped with concrete then Perlite concrete. I also used Perlite cement to insulate the slab from the firebrick hearth.
Sounds like a great idea.
Regular brick is basically a heat sink material. It's good at absorbing and holding energy, but it doesn't insulate very well. The perlite will help some.
Hi Tom loved the video. I have a question or 2 just wondering if you could answer them please.
1. What ratio of perlite would you use to high strength cement?
2. And what thickness would you recommend for the perlite pizza oven please.
3. And what constancy should I be looking for when adding water.
Many thanks
Jacob
Thank you.
Very helpful😊
Do you use the fine prearlight or the course 😮
Thank you for sharing your learning experience
My pleasure!
I mixed 6 parts perlite, 1 part refractory concrete, 1 part Portland cement, and water, for the oven floor under the tiles, It's been curing for 5 days, but it hasn't fully hardened yet. I can still dent the surface with my nail. Could it be that I used too much water, and it won't cure properly? Or will it just take more time? Or could it be the mix itself?
Hi Tom! Great Video BTW! COVID has given me and my brother plenty of time to go into our own Pizza oven project. Like you this was the first time we'd ever taken on such a project and we've pretty much been winging it ever since (a few set backs in the beginning... but still so much fun!)
Our oven is a vermiculite oven and approx double the thermal mass of your vermiculite one, and we are now at the stages of "curing" the oven. Quick question is how long did you cure yours for before working it up to a full firing?
Keep coming with the video updates!
Cheers!
Thanks for the feedback!
We cured the Vermiculite oven for 6 weeks in the summer before the first small fire. Then built up bigger and bigger fires up to 8 weeks then started using it.
Good luck. Half the fun is making it yourself!! Very satisfying!!
Tom, Can you believe it's been a year now? I have a wood fired oven because of you and your videos. I'm super happy with it. I'm trying to do some some real "oven" tasks now with it. Have you gone any further and tried any bread or meats in your oven's? I wanted to see if you have. Thanks again for the encouragement and the videos!! The Cooper family thanks you!!
Fantastic!
We’ve cooked all sorts, from spatchcocked jerk chicken to bread and butter pudding!
Hi as fire (fondu) cement is very expensive could I mix my vermiculite with normal Band Q cheap cement, also have you ever crushed old Red bricks and used them in a concrete type mix, love to hear your ideas thanks.
Great tip thank you. QUESTION - what did you use(recommend) for the base (floor) of the oven.
Source some firebricks if you can, or make your own slab using refractory mix
Food Related if I use refractory cement for a slab inside the pizza oven is it basically the same as fire bricks? Obviously food save
Would like to send a photo of oven you helped me with. Cheers for the advice and inspiration
Pete
How would Refectory mortar work instead of refectory cement
What did you make the oven with?
Tom, awesome videos... love them all. I've finished my first dome by using Medium Vermiculite, big mistake. Sadly, it was all that was local to me. I did more of a 5:2:1.5 ratio and it has turned out to be a beast, quite heavy. I haven't even moved it from its table yet, I'm still trying to separate it from the table after 14 days of drying... Anyway, what is your final recommendation for the dome mix? Perlite or Vermiculite? medium or coarse or super coarse? I have a feeling that my current shell is going to not make it and I will be starting over, but with the ball and the shell, it will be easy and fast to start over... Thanks again for your insight, it is very, very much appreciated. I look forward to your reply. Brian in Philadelphia, PA, USA.
Thanks for watching Brian.
My preferred material is now Perlite, but I think the next one I make will use refractory cement to eliminate the risk of cracking when using Portland whether it be white or normal.
I’m sure you’ll be able to pry it off when it’s a bit drier!
Good luck!
Food Related what is your recommendation for granularity? All medium? Coarse? Super coarse? Thanks again.
hi there thanks for a great video with useful information.. 1 question when u say dont fire it too high what temp are you talking about? or what tempt did u have it that caused it to crack. cheers
Start a small fire and build it up.
If it goes too hot too soon while curing it will crack.
Anything over 650 Celsius seemed to
Make my cracks worse. My first crack was not from heat but when we first moved it!!
Thanks for putting this together, Tom! I'm working on my first oven and had a question about your experience with perlite's heat transfer through the dome. I did a 5:1 ratio of perlite:portland at 75mm thick. I haven't done curing fires yet to test the insulation but I'm wondering if you find the dome/walls to get very hot when cooking or if the perlite does a good job of insulating?
There is some heat transfer through the material, but nothing to worry about. The latest oven we made was around 100mm thick which really helped.
@@foodrelated Great to hear.
If you build another oven, you might add some chopped fiberglass to the mixture. That might also reduce the chances of cracking. Since it is pretty cheap, it might be worth trying.
What about fire blanket insulation in between the layers? Is that worth the extra effort/cost?
great vid! 1st time sub'd!....how did you make the base with the stones? was that fire bricks or perlite hame made stones, if you have a link let me know , thanks mate!
Firebricks, laid on sand.
I see lots of clips using perlite for pizza ovens , then read on lots of websites that perlite is only suitable for filling holes in walls , and not for heat retaining ovens. Please ...... does the perlite retain enough heat to make a successful oven ? Cheers in advance.
Great videos, thanks. Where did you buy the square firebricks from? Cheers
From a brick place in west Auckland.
Would have preferred to use reclaimed red clay bricks but they were too expensive.
Food Related cheers!
Thank you for sharing great VS ! I did several experiments, finally always cracking. The last repair has been made with about 20 mm mix Portaland ciment + perelite on chicken wire/ Looks holding much more heat. What is your proportion mix ?
5:2:2
Perlite:cement:water
In the future I would use refractory cement to prevent the cracking issue
@@foodrelated is this horticultural perlite?
Ha! My favorite new channel. Building stuff to cook food 😄
Thanks!
How many part of perlite per cement you use
Nice! I'm working up an idea to build a rocket pizza oven, I want to do it in layers, the first layer will be a mix of bentonite clay and Portland cement, a layer of Aircrete then another layer of the clay mix. I torch tested some samples and the clay mix held up quite well.
Sounds great!
Very interesting video. A question: did you ever experimented using expanded clay instead of perlite or maybe even a combination of the 2, with a perlite based layer at the beginning followed with a thicker layer containing mainly expanded clay, but also a percentage of perlite to fill the spaced between the clay as it has a bigger dimension and leaves bigger gaps that have to be filled bi the cement?
Expanded clay has been already cooked at high temperature in the making process, is very light, so allows thicker wall without having a too heavy construction and thicker walls should lead to a better heath retention as the mass is the same, but there is more insulation.
Strange enough I never saw expanded clay in home made pizza ovens, maybe there is a proven reason why it does not work, but maybe it can really improve the result, so I ask to you, as you claim to don't be an expert, but you surely have experience and you give us a long term comparison, while most of the others show only the oven new, but don't give any feedback on its durability over time and use.
Thanks for the answer, hoping that you find the time to write it, if not I understand it. Ciao from Italy.
Hi
Firstly thanks for watching and your questions.
I have never used expanded clay but your logic seems right.
It would be worth trying for sure.
Thanks again for all of your awesome help. I am finally in the process of my first fires to prep for first pizza day. I don’t know if I’m crazy but it seems that smoke is coming through the top of the dome? Have you ever seen this? I’m pretty sure it’s at least 2 inches of not 3. Thanks for your support. Brian in Philly USA
Nope never seen that... are there cracks? Did it dry too fast due to high air temperatures?
Food Related so, we have made bread yesterday and this evening pizza! It’s all going very, very well. I think I was up to 900(by accident) and it all seems to be going well. I haven’t seen any cracks in the dome. I do have some in the mortar table holding it, but that’s no big deal. Dude, this is awesome. I cannot express my thanks for all of your videos and help. My perlite cement oven is everything I wanted. I am sure that come fall, there May be talk of a new bigger dome with a larger door/entrance tunnel. But thank you again for all of your posts and replies. Your the best in times like COVID-19. All the best to you and your family. Brian in Philly USA.
What material did you use to patch the cracks? Original mix or fire temp cement. Thank you.
Fire temp cement mix
Hi Tom, very useful indeed. I particularly like the way your hair comes out the front of your cap. Or is it the back?
Lockdown hair.
That’s funny 😉🤘🏼
Tom, Great Vid. how hot is too hot to fire a perlite oven? Thanks
I would guess over 500 degrees Celsius. Ideal cooking temp for pizza is around 450 anyway
Hi 👋 Great video. What was your ratio for perlite to cement to water? Thank you.
It's 5 perlite ; 2 cement and 2 water
What's the temperature at the outside of the ovens, if the are fired for some hours? It's not about precise readings, just if you can touch the outside without instantainiously bruning/hurting your fingers/palm.
It feels warm to the touch after 4 hours of firing
Cool vid thanks mon!
Thanks for watching
you used different cements, did you also do a cross comparison?
What if you mix both vermiculite and perlite
Pearlite is actually Hydrated Obsidian, so perhaps the Lava came in contact with water, as such there is only a limited amount of Pearlite in the world.
Why can’t both be used to create the refractory mortar mix? Like 1 part of each, 3 parts sand and 1 part white Portland concrete…water etc? Wouldn’t both be best of both
I'd be interested to see if the cracking would reduced if you added glass fibre reinforcing to the concrete mix. It's used to give strength to concrete worktops so they can be cast a thinner (up to 75% weight reduction) while keeping the same strength. If you believe the blurb, it also stops the concrete from expanding/contracting as much.
Others have suggested this, and I think it could be a viable option.
Even better is basalt fiber cloth. It can handle both higher temps and higher alkalinity than regular fiberglass.
very good video, it is possible with perlite, cement and sand refractory furnace type kamado
It would be fun to try!
Very helpful video. As you said it's not really a fair comparison if they're not built to the same specifications (thickness, chicken wire). Did you use the same cement ratio in both?
Yes I think so
@@foodrelated interesting. I did mine with vermiculite cause that's what I could find at a decent price in Malta. Mixed it at 5:2 with portland cement and gone for a 6cm thickness with chicken wire reinforcement over the dome. It looks harder than what you show in the video ( I couldn't crush a piece between my fingers) but only time will tell. Maybe the heat weakens it.
@@christianpsaila5518 Question about keeping it from cracking on within the first 24-48hrs!:
My first go I tried 5 parts vermiculite to 1 part Portland cement to 2 parts water. It was so dry, almost like sand. So I added water until it barely stayed together. I ended up seeing small and thin cracks forming as I was building upwards. Decided to scrap that go.
The next mixture I added quite a bit more water until it was much easier to work with. Not liquidy, but very wet and gooy. Put a wet bedsheet over it. And rewet the whole top several times a day since it's so hot here in California. In 48hrs huge cracks formed.
The next go I did 10 vermiculite to 1 cement to 3.5 parts water. It was medium wetness. On the verge of going sandy, but smidegn wetter than that. Just not gooy. Decided to omit the damp bedsheet since it was a cold night. Came out the next morning, saw micro cracks. By afternoon huge cracks.
Any advice would be really appreciated. Should I add lime? Clay? Some have such low ratios. But what does that do to thermal insulation?
In the end that cracked within 12hrs.
@@Targ3tsh00t3r I suggest you try 5 vermiculite to 2 cement. Amount of water depends on your climatic conditions. I used around 2.5 parts in Malta which is quite warm. I also kept the whole thing moist to cure slowly, spraying it with water every few hours at first.
what composition of the solution do you make for making a stove?
See original video
What did you use on the floor of the pizza oven just regular bricks
No they are fire bricks
oke thanks for this super idea of titel video but wich matrial will be the best for extremly high degress like 500 degress
Use perlite and refractory cement
@@foodrelated thanks foor you comment ..and what you thinking about fire stone bricks or something
Did you make the firebricks under the oven as well? If so, are those verm and cement?
No they are made from Pyrolite. We bought them.
Hi, how much pearlite and how many cement bags would you advise?
Many thanks and great vids. 👍
See original build vid on my channel
What’s flooring made of
thanks , have been told that perlite although a very good insulation and light structure , when it is heated can release toxic substances th4 is not recommended for ovens . any views on that ? i was going to make my own oven with perlite (and cement) but this stopped me dead in my tracks.
Haven’t heard that before.
which ovens get the hotter temps, wat temps 800 degree? like neopolatan oven
Depending on wood, between 500-700.
Ours cooks pizza in less than 2 mins
Very useful comparison! Thanks for sharing. So I wonder why not just give your vermiculite oven another layre of perlite over top to fix it up nice and to save all the forming and other such jobs?
A great idea, and one I will explore further!
Yup I did that and 6 years ago and still bullet proof. Helps having mass.
The biggest secret to pizzas is a flaming single log on the side to create a flame over the top of the pie. 90 second is all it takes. Plus 2 or 3 turns
Do you think increasing the amount of portland or FB mortar in the mix would increase the hardess of the vermiculate?
Perhaps and worth a try with a test brick.
Hi Thanks four posting this informative Video. Can I cook directly on the Perlite/concrete base (ie no firebricks) I have not made my oven yet, but think the base will be about three inches thick..Thanks
We don’t.
We use aluminium trays
Or you could lay firebricks/clay bricks on top
@@foodrelated I forgot to say,,I meant , can I cook Pizza directly on the Perlite Concrete base (no bricks)
Hi. What kind and where do you get the fire cement from
Contact your local building supplies store or fireplace dealer and ask for refractory cement.
Hey guys,
Awesome youtube chanal and instagram page here. I was wondering how many pizza you could fit in a 60cm diameter build dome? You recon you could cook 10 pizza's/hour? Thx for all the info sharing
Yep easy
Can usually fit 2 at a time
What kind of bricks do you use for the bottom where you put the pizza? I wonder if its bad for the food to just use cement or something on that too...
Both of the ovens in this video use firebricks (which are fine to cook on directly), but in my other video where i made the whole base out of vermiculite we cook on trays. You could quite easily set firebricks into the perlite base...
@@foodrelated Okey. Thanks for the answer!
Very interesting a helpful. What is the recipe for the perlite oven please?
All in this video
th-cam.com/video/DjDyB6Xy_as/w-d-xo.html
If I render the inside of my pizza oven with fire cement after I built it do you think that will help prevent cracking
Maybe. Would be interested to see the results.
@@foodrelated I will give it a go an get back to you with my results
@@leetett6888 Hello! I am under the same process! let me know how it goes!
What mix do you use, I'd like to make a Perlite oven?
Checkout the perlite oven series
Pizza ovens look great! I looked abit through the comments and cant find it it anywhere else, What volumes of Perlite/Vermiculite and cement do you use? and did you work to a 4:1 ratio with cement? thanks
3:1 volume ratio works best.
If you can go for refractory cement. It will mean no cracking 3-4 years later...
@@foodrelated 3 Perlite, 1 Refractory/Portland Cement, How many water?
I am also interested in the amount of water used :)
Is building an oven completeley out of refractory mortar a good idea? I have alot extra
I don't see why not...
Ive never tried it but in theory i think it would work.
Literally building my 2nd pizza oven today after the first one worked but cracked and was debating whether to try perlite
Also why do you cook on trays and not just on the floor?
Just easier to prep and move the pizzas around. The firebricks are not smooth ones. I would advise using refractory cement with the perlite to prevent cracking. Thanks for watching.
What's the ratio for perlite, water and white cement you used?
I think people use 1:1 perlite to cement. Not 100% sure tho
Great comparison! how hot is too hot? Thanks
Over 450 degrees Celsius
Tom, really helpful vid, I was almost going to do a vermiculite/ pearlite layered number but now after seeing how soft it can become I’m sticking to pearlite and will use the vermiculite in the garden.
Many thanks
Rob
Thanks for watching
Regarding reinforcement, did you ever consider adding glassfibres (length approx. 12..25mm / 0,5...1in) to your perlite/vermiculite - concrete? Here in Europe, dry-mix-DIY-concrete is already sold and advertised "fibre-reinforced" in DIY stores. Wikipedia suggests to use about 1...2 kg of glassfibers per cubicmeter of concrete. (Hope you can convert that to imperial units)
If you ever build one with glass fibres, I'd appreciate if you share your experience!
Im unsure it is food safe... You would have to ask the manufacturers of that product.
@@foodrelated Several years ago, I had contact with a technician from ISOVER. They produce glass fiber based insulation wool. He said, that these fibers are not rated carcinogen, since if inhaled, they will dissolve within time. In contrast, asbestous fibres will not dissolve.
Just to be on the safe side, applying a thin layer of heat resistet render inside would separate fibres form pizza! ;-)
Looks good man. Stuff the cracks. If it works it works. :-)
I saw another video where they said use perlite and cement in a 4:1 ratio with just enough h2o to hold it together.
Looking to build a foundry to melt brass and aluminum...any input
Use perlite, plenty of videos on YT
How many part of perlite per Concrete you use
And what cement normal or refractive
3:1
Medium perlite:Portland cement
Refractory would perform better but costs more
If you used refractory cement do you think it would Crack with high heat?
No
I'm considering casting my outer arch and chimney from vermiculite. I will be tiling over it all when it's cured.. Do you think this would be ok? Cheers.
Yep I reckon that will work
Are perlite oven ok outside or do they need a protective render/paint?
TBH I’m not sure how long it would last.
I’m sure it be fine for 5 years
oh my god, as you did reinforcement and another material-strength with the perlite, it actually is not comparable at all, is it??? Anyway: both are interesting materials, and THUMBS UP for posting!
How much does the oven weight? the dome? the floor and bricks? what kind of table do you need?
Not sure of exact weight. Depends on the size you make it.
The table/stand we have at home is just made from 2x4s and coach screws...
@@foodrelated Can you lift it by yourself? can two guys lift it?
Why didn’t you use heat resistant cement instead of normal cement? With heat resistant cement the cement won’t crack until above 1200 degrees Celsius.
Why don't you add over your oven with chicken wire and perlite?
I wonder what a mix of perlite and vermiculite would do and how that would perform.
Not sure but worth making a test brick I reckon!