Ancient Sith vs Rule of 2 Sith FULL ANALYSIS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- NEW STAR WARS MERCH PAGE: bit.ly/TheStup...
For all sponsorship and business inquiries please contact:
Business: tmarvelouswave@gmail.com
Twitter: @StupendousWave
I believe all content used falls under the remits of Fair Use, but if any content owners would like to dispute this I will not hesitate to immediately remove said content. It is not my intent to in any way infringe on their content ownership. If you happen to find your art or images in the video please let me know and I will be glad to credit you.
Additional Music "Omega" By Scott Buckley - www.scottbuckley.com.a End Song By WhiteSand "Eternity" • Whitesand - Eternity (...
Composer: Whitesand (Martynas Lau)
Year: 2017
Title: Eternity Additional Music Terminus by: Scott Buckley
Released under CC-BY 4.0.
www.scottbuckley.com.au
Terminus: • 'Terminus' [Epic Cinem...
Did NOBODY else notice Miraak is now apparently a sith? 😂😂
lmao 😂 was about to comment just as I saw it ~
Went to the comment section to see if anybody else did
Right
I swear i only came to the comments to see if someone else notice that..... But Miraak was giving a whole lot of sith energy 😂😂😂
It tracks
It also depends upon what you think of as success. The Bane Sith schemed for a thousand years to usurp power. But only reined for 20 years before defeated when Vadar returned to the Light. The Ancient Sith maintained large empires for many centuries.
Indeed. I believe the Rule of Two chain has been broken in relation to Bane's vision.
I have a feeling that Sidious wasn't the first one to not have fully learned the knowledge of their masters, or to withold knowledge from their apprentices.
But Sidious is ultimately one of the greatest steps away from the Rule of Two.
Agreed! The ancient sith were never able to conquer the entire galaxy. Bane's Sith obviously were more powerful as they were able to defeat the Jedi and takeover the republic but were unable to hold the galaxy for too long.
@@dwsvlogs97 True, but... They took over the Republic, but did they really take over the entire galaxy?
The Republic itself in the age of Palpatine's Empire wasn't quite the same as in the age of Bane.
Mostly concerned with a handful of core worlds, and barely bothering to actually extend its governance to the Outer Rim.
Can we really say that Palpatine conquered the entire galaxy by subjugating the Republic and the CIS? Both definitely expanded their influence during the Clone Wars, but still...
The only empire that, in my opinion, ever came close to actually conquering the galaxy, is the Rakatan Infinite Empire.
And we all know how that ended...
@@darth_dan8886 in the Starwars Universe the entire galaxy had never been explored. As a matter of fact they could not reach certain parts of the Galaxy because of all the celestial bodies like black holes and collapsed hyperspace Lanes. It was believed that the ancient ones placed hyperspace lanes and black holes where they are to protect The Wider Galaxy from some sort of entity that acted like a virus. However Canon depicts Palpatine as the only Sith that actually took over the Galaxy until Darth Krayt came along. 1 The Immortal Empire is nothing more than gameplay so I don't count that but if we did that is not even the Sith it just was ran by The Sith emperor Vitiate.
@@dwsvlogs97 Yep, the Rakata ain't Sith either, just Darksiders. And they came very close as they were not using hyperspace lanes - they simply honed in on the Force signatures of inhabited worlds with their hyperdrives.
Both ended up with the same problem: they destroy themselves from within. Bane era Sith would devolve into killing their masters through cowardly means rather than by proving their power as Bane wished. Even after success, Vader ends up destroying Sidious and also himself. Neither solve the issue with the dark side turning on itself, and even Bane acknowledges that it's a trap: the dark side ends up warping the user into obsessively pursuing the empty concept of power to no actual end or purpose.
Aye power for powers' sake.
Ajunta Pal himself admits the Dark Side is a trap.
That's awfully fictional. Power IRL leads to fulfilling your purpose or goals effectively, because few can challenge you and you'll often get your way.
Except the ancient Sith didn't do that. Revan's holocron _lied_ because even as a Sith, Revan always intended to destroy them. He tricked Bane into wanting to kill all the other Sith, gave him the Thought Bomb, and set him lose.
No one actually practiced the Rule of Two! You cannot trust Sith to honor their own promises! Ask Darth Sidius about this!
Was unaware Miraak the first Dragonborn was an ancient sith (4:00)
I saw him and I was like "hol' up, that explains so much!" i mean dude DID create an island from fighting with a dragon priest
Lmao I was thinking the same thing!
4:00 we know that’s a picture of miraak from Skyrim right?
i noticed that as well
Hey Stupendous Wave please make What If Qui-Gon Jinn Trained Anakin PART 3 next
Yeah we're still waiting for that!
For real though
if you want to see something like that on star wars theory's channel he's made a full story on what if Anakin was trained by Qui-Gon Jinn
@@jjflamez yeah but unlike that story Qui gon jinn was training Anakin on the planet of Dathameer to help control the dark side
NNNNNNOOOOOOO
3:57 Have you ever heard the tragedy of darth miraak the dovahkiin?
I prefer the great Sith Empires of old. The connection to the dark side was unrivaled and the vast amount of talent throughout its ranks is easy to see. If the leadership was able to tone down the in fighting they would have been unstoppable. "Through victory my chains are broken" you can never have true victory if your always fighting with the ones who follow the same cause as you.
Ironically there were some ancient Sith Lords that did try to do that, namely Darth Marr
It's weird because the Sith worship individual power,so no Sith Would be complacent working for or even alongside anyone else. If all Sith are equal then no Sith is more powerful which brings a problem. If Sith have Ranks the one's with the lower ranks want to upgrade immediate
@@OK-yy6qz You can strive to be powerful without needing to kill everyone around you, people do it literally every day in the real world. The Sith have cooperated multiple times in history, and while it always ends badly they can have upwards of hundreds of years where its going just fine.
There wasn't really much in-fighting, we see that for ourselves in all the lore pertaining to them. They were careful not to weaken the Sith as a whole. The main problem was that their infighting was mostly about interfering with each other's plans instead of cooperating for mutual benefit. Often just to be dicks to each other for ego trips.
Bane's rule of 2 that he learned from Revan was ingenious. Not only did it ensure that every new true Sith Lord was more powerful than the last, but after all, it's reliance on cunning, manipulation, & patience lead to Sidious' success. It is a shame that Anakin lost on Mustafar because of his potential future power. After becoming the disfigured Darth Vader, not only was he never strong enough in the force to usurp Sidious, but he also lacked cunning like the Sith of old. If you read the Bane trilogy, I find it hard pressed to think Bane himself would've found Anakin a worthy apprentice. The scene where Anakin is telling Sidious he can't live without Padme would seemingly be disgusting to Bane. Both himself & Zannah were much stronger mentally than that.
I AM THE SITH
Yes you are, my apprentice.
Now fetch me a pizza or it’s force lightening for you!
I thought you were The Senate
I replayed KOTOR too many times to let 0:09 slide bro😭. *through strength I gain power*
Yes dude! Epic!
In the beginning you skipped a rule of the sith mantra:
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power. Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The force shall set me free."
Love the channel!
Tenebrae-known to the Old Sith Empire as Darth Vitiate, his reconstituted Sith Empire as the Sith Emperor, and his Eternal Empire as Valkorion-was an ancient dark side entity of enormous power who manipulated galactic affairs for 1,500 years.
This is the Winner!
He was generally speaking probably the strongest/most efficient sith ever.
@@cash5512power isn't everything. Honestly knowledge and skill matters as much if not more and until he actually began seriously studying the knowledge of the ancient sith (which he didn't do till towards the end of his time as emperor) sidious was worse at both than ancient Sith. See power is only effective if you have the skill to use it properly.
loved that you used a picture of miraak from skyrim lmao
🤣🤣🤣
Lol
ORDER 66
" Dew...it "
No I don't agree with your assessment. The Rule Of 2 Sith spent 1000 yrs in hiding like cowards, yes learning & growing in power. But they only ruled for 20yrs, weak sauce. Dessel had to turn/learn from the ANCIENT SITH. The ancient Sith were far superior in every way. I would take/side with the ancient Siths like Nadd, Exar, Vitiate, Tulak, Nilhlis, Treya & Malgus, over Anakin & Sheeve.
You know how many you missed in the rule of 2 lol it wasn't just Vader and palps I would definitely follow zannah bane was great and of course before them I'd definitely follow revan before the rule. Vader and palps is like the absolute last and by far the most lame too follow.
@@BananaRamaPartyTimeAllTheTime Ok you want more Rule Of Sith that blow...... U can keep Rain, the huntress, Vectivus, Gravid, Gean, Ramage & Tenebrous. All of these plus any I didnt list can take a back seat to the Ancient Sith
They listed problems with the ancient sith are the reason why i love the concept of a morally "good" (light side) sith like in the SWTOR game, the sith warrior campaign in particular. Still a dark side user but acknowledging how idiotic and backwards many of the sith ways are and trying to change it from within
... Through strength I gain power,
Through power I gain victory...
C'mon, this could have been a strong opening!..
im glad i found another that noticed
It’s starling how very few people noticed this massive error
Although I love Sidious, it is hard to see a fight between him and Tenebrae or his other forms as Vitiate and Valkorion and not see Sidious reduced to a childlike apprentice. The shear power and magnitude of force ability of Vitiate is so supreme to what we know of Sidious. I'd like to think that he is the culmination of all the sith before him but he really isn't. So my vote goes to the older Lords and Darths.
Well said! In fighting was a big issue but the sith of old make rule of 3 sith look like cowards! And the rule of 2 died on the death star I don't count Disney bullshit saga!
What? I absolutely love Vitiate but Sidious is superior to him. Vitiate is still the 2nd most powerful of the Sith though but Palpatine truly was the culmination of the Sith
Prime Valkorion is even weaker than Prime Plagueis, who is leagues behind from Prime Sidious.
@@marardehi what crack are you smoking? Vitiate was the most powerful sith lord period! Sidious or plagues could take vitiate together! Do you not know the power that vitiate had? He gave immortality to Darth scourge after his battle with lightside Revan. Revan when he was a sith our arguably who is more powerful than city as well now I would accept somebody say Insidious is more powerful than Revan but it would have been really close. Sidious wouldn't have been able to beat Darth Sion the lord of pain! The sith that couldn't die everytime he got cut down he willed his self back to life. Sidious was a powerful sith lord in his own way but more mental than physical. Not that I'm taking away how powerful he was but not compared to the old republic sith/ ancient Sith
@@marardehi Valkorion would destroy sidious in the blink of an eye. He was basically a God lol
Nihilus is in a league of his own. Without a wound in the force to stop him he could potentially wipe out all life. He doesn't need fleets or armies and he makes other Sith look like a joke in comparison.
Well said. Most powerful sith of all time.
I would agree. Nihilus was too powerful, anyone that had the force near him was drained. If they make a show or movie of him it would be amazing.
@@darthbaneshop8030 that would be awesome but he would be a hard character for disney to pull off imo. I have faith in favroni but they can only do so much to counteract the Darth Kennedy effect.
@@darthbaneshop8030 like I think if he's written wrong he could come off as boring or one dimensional.
@@SolusFather literally not the case in either continuity
Dose this mean Anakin Skywalker could potentially summon force storms with red lightning😳🤨
Ajunta, Freedon, Exar, Marka, Ludo, nice names...
Darth Sidious was a powerful and capable Sith lord and master, but I think it’s fair to say his success was built upon the works of the Sith who preceded him.
Had he lacked the knowledge he gleaned from the Sith who came before him, I think he would have had a much tougher time going up against the Jedis who were his contemporaries.
I get that is the way of the Sith. I’m just saying it was Sidious who was the final end product of Sith activity that led to Emperor Palpatine and his Galactic Empire.
In a sense, Sidious was the Sith’s endgame.
It's funny bc remnant Sith spirits hate Sidious.
@@Degenevesting I doubt any of them even really liked Bane either. Kaan definitely didn't.
@@Degenevesting It may be funny, but it’s also irrelevant. Sidious didn’t need the warm regards of previous Sith in order to utilize the knowledge they left behind.
@@taw1967 and yet sidious was not more powerful than the ancient sith he was just a better manipulator! His powers where nothing compared to Vitiates power and I can name others
The rule of two sith did things with precise planning and patience and the old sith just charged in truly manifesting their anger so it makes sense the ancient sith were stronger
They learned the same things about the Dark Side. If the Ancients "charged right in with their anger", then they were too foolish to atempt something like the Grand Plan
false more innocent death in all out war. lot less in grand plan. you are short sighted kid
That's because the ancient Sith had a different philosophy, the actual Sith philosophy. Taking over the galaxy the way Palpatine did is weakness in their philosophy, he didn't win through his power or by defeating his enemies, he won by actively hiding from his enemies and having others fight his battles for him, and look where that got him. The ancient Sith weren't cowards like he was, if anyone believes none of them could have come up with Palpatine's plan they're kidding themselves, they would just never do something so pathetic in order to make an empire that wasn't even Sith.
@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus They weren't foolish, they were powerful. The ancient Sith had little to fear from most Jedi, so charging in worked more often than not.
@@NottherealLuciferamen. Glad someone else understands how the rule of two was a perversion of sith philosophy
Kathleen Kennedy-"There was no lore and nothing to build our story from..."
Everyone-🤔
Revan actually upon discovery of the True Sith he was held bent on bringing that empire down even if it meant using the idea of a sith empire .
I think they are both equally strong and each have their own weaknesses as you mentioned before the sith of old could NEVER defeat the Jedi, as each time one of them rose through the ranks the other one would stab them in the back.
But the story about the rule of two masters destroying lots of Sith lore, illustrates the greatest weakness of the rule of two, namely that there are only ever two Siths in the galaxy.
If both of them die well that´s it gone are the Sith forever, there is no one left to teach any aspiring Sith about the old ways.
All the lore all the rituals and powers GONE, any would be Dark Side users would literally have to start from scratch and discover EVERYTHING for him/herself, and then you better PRAY that you find a good apprentice who can train another one of his/her own.
Because otherwise all your discoveries puff gone as soon as you die.
And yes you might leave records of your discoveries, but as ALL the people with an education will tell you, there is a HUGE difference between theoretic knowledge and practical knowledge.
Ray in TLJ is actually a good example of this if Luke had died and his records merely said reach out... okay i reach out with my hand and nothing happens.. Well i´m stuck unless i make the connection that when Luke writes reach out he means with my mind, i won´t be able to go anywhere.
So the rule of two allowed the Sith to rule the galaxy, but it also made them incredibly vulnerable, because if both where to die without leaving behind any apprentices with the full knowledge of the Sith they would die out.
With an Empire yes you would grow weaker Siths but at the same time, Sith lore had a much greater chance of surviving and even a weak Sith would still be able to teach new apprentices what he/she had learned.
uhm holocorns and the fact is someone will always turn do to balance. Hello. clueless smh reborn
@@lordoffaiyum9727 And do you know where ALL the sith Holocrons are?
No so good luck finding them those that are still around and haven´t been destroyed or hidden in a place so secure you would have better luck breaking into Fort Knox then even getting CLOSE to those places.
Also did EVERY Sith lord record his or her knowledge?
I doubt it.
And lets say you find some Sith Holocrons do they contain ALL the knowledge of the Siths no they are recordings and it could be something completely trivial like how to make a dark side crystal or some ancient sith prophecy about how the sith you die out in a shuttle explosion... which already happened.
Well what if you already know that, that Holocron would basically be worthless to you.
So yes someone can always fall to the dark side, but that doesn´t make them Sith.
All the knowledge and secrets the Sith had learned up until that point would be lost.
You would basically have to start from scratch.
And that is the biggest weakness of the rule of two.
All the knowledge of the sith concentrated in just one being.
And if that being gets killed before he or she can teach an apprentice.
Well that knowledge is gone.
Some of it might be relearned in time, but other stuff would be gone forever.
The Sith literally defeated the Jedi multiple times, there was even an entire purge that left the galaxy with about as many Jedi as Sidious' purge did. This idea that Sith were constantly back stabbing 100% of the time is just false. The Sith had entire eras in which they worked together to defeat their enemies.
For the record the ancient sith came just as close to destroying the Jedi as sidious more than once.
Using art of mirak while in approcratha? I recognize the outfit mirak wears in skyrim, the tendrils of hermas mora and his his library of books.
Theoretically Tenebrae was probably the most powerful sith to ever exist, assuming his ability to consume all life on a planet was directly through his own ability to wield the force, rather than through the use of Zildrog and the Gravestone. Based on the events on Ziost it's likely Tenebrae did learn how to destroy a planet with his power in the force alone as the Gravestone was not operational at that time. Sidious also probably learned how to transfer his essence between bodies from old sith holocrons that referenced Tenebrae and likely collected by Plagueis.
mirak at 4:03 hahahhaha
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS
I've read the series like 5 times(favorite series ever) and that's always been what I've understood. I mean revan only made this statement cuz him and the other apprentice overthrew their master together. This lead revan to start saying there should always be only 1 master and 1 apprentice. But possibly bane added the extra zing of destroying all the sith besides 2.
Since when ist miraak a Sith?
Exactly what i was thinking
Wait what? From skyrim?
@@Pandemia616 watch 4:00
The rule of two ended up ensuring that the Sith would go extinct. While the Rule of Two did conquer the galaxy, the Galactic Empire it only lasted 20 years. A 20 Year empire for 1000 years of work seems like diminishing returns. It fought one great war and lost. The Sith empires of old were smaller but lasted far longer, also the Galactic Empire fell to a far smaller and weaker faction while the Sith Empires fought a power equal to their own and sometimes won.
Darth Revan inspired Darth Bane to create the Rule of Two which in a sense, the Ancient Sith paved the way for the rise of the Modern Sith, which ultimately culminated with Palpatine succeeded in wiping out the Jedi and turned the Republic into the Empire.
But oddly, what he did required absolutely no sith training. It was his speaking and political ability. The rule of 2 is/was dumb if only for if a freak accident happens with both of them. Sith are wiped out without the jedi doing absolutely anything.
Whhhasssssssst up sitha
The Rule of Two was first teased by Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma, but it wasn't actually put into context until Revan, and then put into formal practice until Bane.
It seems to me that you've read the books
@@TortillaBill You got that right, because I have the LEGENDS Darth Bane Trilogy novels, Darth Plagueis novel, the TPM and ROTS novels, and almost everything else. 👍
I have been deep into either lore, but this is beyond fascinating! Thank you for this education in Lore ideas, beliefs and myths.
Did I just see an image of Miraak from The Elder Scrolls Dragonborne DLC @ 3:58?
Great Star Wars lore btw, always enjoy hearing your distinctive tone. Stay righteous.
The problem was that no sith, except Darth Bane, actually honored the rule of two.
If a sith apprentice became strong enough to kill their master, they would do it even via cunning and betrayal and always way before having learned all the things their master knew.
And if a sith master realized that their apprentice was getting stronger and dangerous, they would withhold knowledge or kill them off before they actually became a threat.
3:59 That’s a picture of Miraak from Skyrim. I mean it’s a cool picture, but idk how it makes any sense in a Star Wars video.
lol the pic like 4 minutes in is skyrim lol miraak in the world of apocrypha was not expecting to see that hehe
The ancient sith were more balanced to be honest. There was always a way to be a sith, so long as you were a member of their order. Your talents would always be valued by those higher than you, and you could always find a way to improve yourself. The Rule of Two sith prized only cunning and cleverness. By the time Sideous came about, there had been several generations of sith who had all but abandoned sith sorcery and warrior paths, instead focusing on science and inquisitor paths.
Ancient Sith also honed themselves against the jedi, and visa versa. Jedi were made strong by the sith and were given a true purpose. Darth Bane's Rule of Two was victorious not for the accumulation of power, but for depriving the Jedi of the only purpose they had: Protecting people from the sith.
You cannot protect someone from something you don't believe exist.
I would also like to point out that Jedi Master K'Kruhk also rescued several younglings which he brought to live with him after the clone wars and successfully defended them against those who might have caused them harm.
The Ancient Sith R more powerful but the modern Sith R smarter.
Exar kun was far more powerful than bane. He has feats that pit him with emperor papaltine reborn darth caedus and darth krayt
I think any brilliant politician with a hatred for the Jedi could accomplish what Sidious did. I think him being a Sith made it more difficult because he had to hide his power. A regular politician would be even more protected from the Jedi. Based on Republic law, the Jedi were committing a crime in confronting Sidious when they learned he was a Sith. Religious persecution is illegal. I think the long era of peace and complacency did more damage to the Jedi than the modern Sith did. Too much of a good thing. Kind of the same as insane power destroyed the ancient Sith. Force users are best at destroying themselves.
If it was more difficult because he was a Sith, it means the feat is more impressive
I still give it to the ancient sith while yes the infighting was very detrimental to them I believe if Revan would have fallen a 2nd time and after defeating malek he would have converted or killed the remaining jedi from the universe then with the star forge and his army he would have returned for viciatates throne.
I love how he used a pitcter of miraak
The antient sith without any doubt were far more powerful in my mind.
Mostly because of the feats they managed to achieve, although they didn't manage to conquer the galaxy, I believe if famous antient sith were in the shoes of modern with such as palpatine, they would easily do the same if not better than palpatine did. I also think the antient jedi were far more powerful than modern jedi, as they were less clouded and had a much stronger affinity with the force compared to modern jedi. Which made them a harder opposition.
While I would argue that it is the meticulous work of the generations of the Rule Of Two Sith that weakened the Jedi and the Republic, there is no denying that they themselves have grown weaker, lacking the challenge that used to demand overwhelming power.
Yet, I also cannot say that the ancient Sith were not as successful, having ruled the galaxy or at least huge chunks of it a number of times, and having driven the Jedi to near-extinction just as often. I would even argue that the Ancient Sith rose stronger after their failures than what followed Sidious' Empire.
@@darth_dan8886the rule of two was a perversion of sith philosophy. The goal of being a sith was to become a literal unstoppable force of nature bending the universe, the force, and even reality to your will. That doesn't exactly go along with hiding in Shadows and manipulating others to fight for you.
So the rule of 2.... I hear a lot that bane created it. But from my understanding he got the idea from revans Holocron....that's what I read from the path of destruction. Bane honestly just implemented it since he was so sick of how weak the sith had become.... Am I misunderstanding something?
I think you have the right idea. Albeit inspired by Revan’s holocron, Bane was the one who first implemented the Rule of Two, since he’d learned about and seen the infighting that destroyed the Sith time and time again, so he believed that larger factions of Sith didn’t work anymore and thus tried something new - the Rule of Two, which he’d hoped would prevent such infighting in the future.
The Ancient Sith were just more powerful than the Sith of the Rule of Two. Darth Krayt proved that. Bane and his predecessors were powerful don't get me wrong but the Rule of Two was probably the dumbest idea ever. One person can only have so much power and if they have to give some of it to their apprentice then it makes them weaker and susceptible to assassination and betrayal. Sith in the Old Republic were more powerful, knew more Force techniques, and their power was almost limitless because nothing held them back. The Rule of Two even goes against the Sith Code about having your chains broken. Chains mean the things holding you back from unlocking your true potential and the Rule of Two does just that. It was probably the dumbest idea in the existence of the Sith and that's exactly why Darth Krayt made the One Sith. A Sith Order that follows one Sith Lord but the others achieve their power in their own way with nothing holding them back.
At the end of the day, you have to look at the end result as according to canon. The Sith were within an ace of totally wiping out the entire Jedi order and taking over the galaxy ultimately under Order 66..this was never achieved before by the Sith. This was done under the Sith rule of two..in Star Wars reality..nothing else really matters.
Was that Miraak I saw in there? 👀 God I hate what a nerd I am 😂
Darth Vader father lives Darth king lord plagues
King Ghidorah meme
1st Head: Ancient Sith
2nd Head: Rule of 2 Sith
Derpy Dragon: Rule of 1 (Legacy) and Brotherhood of Darkness
Can’t manipulate a world eating god IMO but I get where he comes from with it. I think it’s more just the way the timeline played out and how they got some of the explanations done, but truly face to face, I don’t think any modern sith order would stand a chance in many situations against the sith of old. Man I would love some movies covering these timelines.
Darth plagues lives he clone himself lots of clone
The old Sith were the sword. The modern Sith are the the pen.
I really can't argue with much of your analysis. I would be curious to see what would happen if you included the Sith after Sidious. Does Caedus compete with Sidious? What about Krayt? Lost Tribe?
Caedus doesnt really exist in canon anymore. Kylo Ren is supposed to be Darth Caedus.
He was more like Vader. Hard to say with the lost tribe
Krayts rule is flawed due to everything being centered on one sith. If that one sith died everything falls
I think bane misunderstood the message revan left. Bane thought if there was only two than they would be more powerful with the force . I think what revan really meant was syths always seek more power and eventually try ruling, a lot of getting stabbed in the back and in fighting. Making the syth as a faction weaker . With there only being two they can focus all their energy on taking over the universe . With the Jedi their more principled and trained on certain beliefs. With the syth there were not the same principles in play. Causing civil wars between themselves . I think what palatine was doing with the disguisiters was smart . Basically making a syth army that could never oppose him because they were never taught like Vader was
Sith, not syth.
I want to hear more about Darth Gravin. The idea loan of trying to merge sith and Jedi ideologies is absurd, y'all say he went crazy trying to do so I said he was crazy beforehand. I want to hear his story.
Tbh if the sith used the same system as the Jedi. The Jedi would 100% get stomped.
I agree completely with you, in terms of shear brute force, the ancient Sith held the most power and craved it so much to the point of self destruction. On the other hand, the Rule of Two Sith started from scratch and through the generations obtained greater power through cunning and intellect and as insurance, learning in combat but only saving fighting as a last resort. Overall, from the perspective of results, the Rule of Two Sith were far superior.
Not really. The empire lasted 20 years. The ancient sith empires lasted 100s of years. And the ancient sith came just as close to wiping out the Jedi as sidious more than once. Sidious was no true sith Lord and would have been viewed as little more than a coward by ancient sith. The rule of two was a complete perversion of sith philosophy. In sith philosophy you take something with your own hands, power and pride . You don't trick others into fighting your battles for you. The goal is to become an Uber mach (a superman) an unstoppable force bending the universe to your will. Not a manipulator in the shadows. The results sidious got were not much better than the ancient sith (and actually worse in some ways) and he abandoned the sith philosophy to do it. And honestly when you throw out your beliefs and your own code of , for lack of a better term, ethics to achieve a goal can you really say the results are better?
@@markcarpenter6020 Except they didn't, did they? If the Ancient Sith were as great as you say what happened to them? oh that's right, they're all dead. Darth Sidious used the dark side in tandem with his political mind and cunning, but wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty when the situation required, like killing his master Darth Plagueis, training Darth Maul and later dueling and nearly killing him, using him to lure out Mother Talzin and then eliminating her, nearly getting rid of Yoda. Sidious played the Republic, Jedi, the entire galaxy like a fiddle and nearly got away with it all, but ultimately failed because of his own arrogance, which is honestly the downfall of nearly every Sith Lord ever to exist. Both the Rule of Two Sith and the Ancient Sith have great strengths and great weaknesses, but the Ancient Sith are called that for a reason, because they ultimately failed and died out, so did the Rule of Two but they survived for over a thousand years and in the process destroyed the Republic and Jedi both, something the galaxy still hasn't recovered from.
@@HeirofAether the with died out because they abandoned with philosophy, tried to become more like the Jedi, and were then betrayed by Darth bane.
The Baneite Sith may have killed more Jedi in their purge, but their Empire only lasted 20 years. The Ancient Sith harnessed their power and tested each other through both schemes and power, and their empires lasted for centuries.
Trust me when I say this. If vader never returned the galactic empire would last forever since sidious knows essence transfer.
@@staarfinger7322 So did Tulak Hord, and even he fell to his treacherous apprentice. Unlike Sidious though, he had potential successors like Marka Ragnos waiting in the wings to keep the Empire going.
@@konahrikb1578 that's only because after mustafar sidious knew vader was never gonna surpass him so he'd just have waited till vaders natural death or set him up later to die. If vader never lost he'd definitely have vader as his successor and vader would rule
@@staarfinger7322 He was always going to use up Vader and toss him aside. If he turned on Palpatine, he'd still have a chance to fulfill the prophecy to destroy the Sith, just like he did. The Ancient Sith would've killed Anakin the moment they had the chance to prevent that from happening.
@@konahrikb1578 no they wouldn't. They'd turn anakin to the dark side and use him for their own means. The ancient sith were always power hungry and theyd do the same
Darth king dark lord plagues
I honestly do prefer the Ancient Sith to the Rule of Two Sith
3:57 it is a picture of miraak, the evil dragonborn from skyrim, who got stuck i apocryphia, the dimension of herma mora, the deadric prince of hidden knowledge.
I had no idea that those words are connected xDDD
The Sith undermine each other eventually no matter if it's the rule of two or before that, but it isn't the Sith in itself rather what Force they rely upon.
The Dark Side plagues the Sith with power and eventually damnation, but what happens when they stop using the Dark Side for power and instead use the Light for Freedom.
I think it would be an interesting concept for a Sith to use the Light Side of the Force rather than the Dark as their goal is freedom rather than power.
It's an idea at least.
Play SWTOR roll a Sith character and choose mostly lightside options (with some pragmatic darkside choices) and its very much what you are describing, a character that is fueled by their emotions (both positive and negative) but that remains in control of them (and not the other way around).
Whats miraak doing in a star wars video, nice idea tho, i cant help but wonder whatll happen if magic users (psijic order, mages guild and their split leftovers, the worm cult, many knights and orders of the divines and other daedric cults aswell as the lesser daedra and the princes, star gazers of craglorn, hammerfell's order of the quill, the many redguard sword schools, can a shehai pierce and or resist a lightsaber? Could a jedi or a sith summon a shehai?, could the starwars galaxy posess the apolity to dominate magicka? Can this result in non force sensitives becoming more powerfull then force wielders? Oooohhhh so much fantasy!!! I love it!)
(I can already imagine all daedric princes making forcewielders fall to the darkside intentionaly or unintentionaly, like molagbal likes domination and enslavement, malacath loves revenge, azura promites selfishness and selfnessless so shed be unintentionaly turning beings to the dark side, meridia the same, she is all about light and hating the undead, but her greed already corupts her folowers, sheogorath is obvious, i mean look at maul he went insane from tge darkness and the loss and the need for revenge, vaermina represents nightmares and bad omens but thrives on fear, jygalagg is basicaly domination but trough order, what did sidious do in the empire but withoud removing free will from everything, sanguine would be a huge supporter of spice use and other drugs, clavicus vile draws on greed and failure to colect souls, namira is fear and darkness and supports never being happy again and shes closer to the void than anything else exept sithis, boethiah would force the force users to embrace martial prowess, but i bet mandalorians would actualy like her when it comes to warrior respect, hircine im not sure but could be a supporter of alchemy to create beasts to hunt so could be i guess, mehunes dagon is about revolution and natural disasters, dark side users can create massive force storms and as we know like to topple the balance exept they crush the weak wich dagon seeks to elevate and then cast down wilst destroying the impossible to elevate weakest, nocturnal is a big mystery, shed play on the greed of the force user but thats all i think thall happen, mephala would relish in the secret murder the sith often uses in the rule of 2 era as the political maneuverung and the lies are also used by those sith often, i have a feeling that i forgot one of the princes, but the points made so not needed anyhoo)
Is it really the rule of 2 though during Palpatine though? Apprentices had apprentices, the inquisitors, half man half machines (Grievous.) Seems it would allow to the Sith Empire have everything from Warriors to Sorcerers to Acemidics... like the Jedi.
@Asgardian Time Lord Jedi they were considered to be potential apprentices for if the current apprentice was killed
To be fair, the Rule of Two Sith spent 1000 years in hiding and their victory only lasted about 20 years xD Yeah, no, Ancient Sith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rule of Two.
It’s so true that at first glance you think the old sith was better until you realize that it only took three words no more no less to completely:
1. Seize control of a GALAXY destroying liberty “to thunderous applause.” 😉
2. Wipe out the defenders of that galaxy (The Republic & The Jedi) faster than you could pop a bag of popcorn POPCORN!!
3. And to add insult to injury this was accomplished and maintained by two cripples!!! Cripples people!! The comeback of a millennia plus beat down in the time it takes to make dinner!!!
A whole galaxy with magical monks lost to Bernie Sanders and Derrick Rose (the only celebrity I know who’s always getting injured, closest analogy I could think of)
I’m not the type of person who likes when the bad guys win but even I have to admit that what he accomplished was “MOST IMPRESSIVE!!” He didn’t just destroy the Republic and the Jedi Sidious humiliated them! 🤣 he won the game the moment he was put in charge of the Senate they just didn’t know it yet. A whole Sith Lord was just chilling in front of Jedi Grandmaster and Council members and they couldn’t even see it. What’s more insulting is he took their best, their “Chosen One” and said “I choose you Pikachu now go, annihilate all of them. Kill every man, woman and child Old Testament style” barely had to lift a finger and again three words “Execute Order 66” 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️
.Brilliant.
The 1st Jedi purge did surpass order 66.
It saddens me to see most of the fandom truly doesn't understand what the Banite SIth were on about, and rely on bias to judge the Sith Order as a whole.
Edit. Kudos to you Mr. @UCdIt7cmllmxBK1-rQdu87Gg, tor you've got it!
Literal "my favourite Sith are (Revan and Nihilus amongst them obviously) and they are the most powerful" commnets in here.... pathetic
Ancient Sith was more powerful then this new one. At least for me. Rule of Two didn't give any additional power to the new Sith. Because power is gained by fighting against the Jedi, not between themselves. Darth Maul's second battle and the Jedi killed him as a child. While Darth Malgus..........🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😍😍😍😍😍🥰😇
Could we SF/Fantasy nerds agree finally among ourselves that the phrase “nigh invulnerable” be forever stricken from our vocabulary? It’s almost never true, and worse, it reminds me of The Tick so much I want shout “SPOOOOOOONNNN!!!
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.
You skipped a whole line.
The sith code missed a step. I think, Passion, Strength, Power, Victory, Broken Chains, Freedom should be the order as far as I know. Bit nit picky but I’ll take any opportunity to flex old republic knowledge lol.
I have to push back a little. First off the Jedi of the rule of two era were FAR weaker. Jedi like Revan, Meetra Surik, The hero of Tython, Basilia Shan, Satele Shan etc were far more powerful than 99% of clone wars era Jedi. Also I’m not sure where you’re getting the info about the Jedi after the Sith triumvirate purge. All indications say there’s less than a dozen in Kotor 2 counting Revan, Basilia, Meetra and her students. Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t there more than a couple Jedi who survived in hiding? I could have sworn several joined Luke’s new Jedi order, but idk it’s been a while. I do believe it’s also worth noting that in kotor 2 and the 1000 year darkness the sith of these eras almost completely destroyed the republic. Their undoing being brought by the Jedi much like Sidious. I would say that are pretty even as annoying as that sounds. The Bane sith deserve a lot of credit, however they also were defeated by the Jedi in 20 or so years
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength, Through strength I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.*
You got the sith code wrong. Its "Peace is a lie there is only passion, through passion I Gain strength, Through strength Power, Through Power Victory, Through Victory my chains are broken the force shall free me." You forgot the power part of the code. I've been playing a lot of Star Wars The Old Republic Lately so I thought i'd correct you. Great video in all though.
I believe the ancient Sith were way more powerful then the modern Sith and I wish we had TV SHOWS AND MOVIES BOUT THEM!
Sidious didn't rule the galaly because everyone didn't bowe. They can't rule if you don't follow. Alot of people are unruly. I don't consider 2 people a true representation of the sith. maybe if sidious had vader, maul, savage, ventress,dooku and quin lin Voss. Would look better. I know yhe danger of that but still.
What if Master Windu had two purple double bladed Exar Kun lightsaber’s he would literally have been unstoppable in lightsaber combat. By anyone who isn’t a light sider who’s more powerful than Yoda, Luke or the Wills from any era. You should do a what if video.
Cant win without risk and belief in the plan. Darth Bane had faith in the sith creed and his GRAND PLAN. People who say rule of 2 is dumb are even less intelligent and scared of risk. It worked. When Sidious decided he would usurp the rule of 2 his Apprentice killed him. The rule of 2 is proven. It's for the calculating and patient. History had shown the sith gang up on each other and weaken the order. Insanity doing the same thing over and over for same result. Bane said enough
"the quality of the victory is clearly in favor of the Bane'ite Sith" actually no. If we look at the Killcount then we see that most Jedi during the 2nd Jedi purge were killed by the Clones and therefore by the Republic. The Sith do not equal the Republic. For that to be the case, the Republic had to Identify with the Sith religion and cause. But the Republic acted because of the "sedition" of the Jedi order.
4 minutes 5 seconds... Sorry to say but that's a Skyrim Character...Called Miraak... Not Star Wars.
How much knowledge was lost , what knowledge did the ancient sith have that Sideous didnt? could all Ancient Sith Lords beat Palp? Look at Banes thought bomb , aparantly the strongest ability he dared to try. Just think 🤔 there were abilities he found to strong and dangerous for bane! I think palp would go down
Correction, Bane didn't dare to try the Thought Bomb, he _knew_ he couldn't withstand it so he made others believe they could.
In Legends, Palpatine is attributed grand abilities too, like summoning interplanetary Force Storms to decimate enemy fleets. So I'm not truly sure who would have won in a one in one battle. But the Ancient Sith didn't fight alone quite as often...
Rule of two strengthened the powers of cunning within the Sith but ultimately weakened their power in combat and over the force. The loss of power over the force wasn't exactly foreseeable, no one would expect a crazed Sith Lord to destroy centuries or even millennia worth of knowledge, but the lack of combat prowess was expected and somewhat accounted for, given both the Sith and Jedi became weaker in combat by not fighting each other. It's hard to say who was stronger but I think I do have to give it, in the end, to the new Sith just because of how much better they were at destroying the Jedi. Plus I think if Palpatine had actually been trained properly in combat he could easily defeat any of the old Jedi masters
i think the rule of 2 is such a dumb thing... Think about it for a moment... Sith are known for their betrayal. What keeps a student from killing their Master before learning all he has to teach? If that happens, needed knowledge gets lost, in turn weakening the order. What if your student gets killed? U then lost the last, lets say, 25 years that now have to be rerun when u train another student... Even then, you would have to teach your student the entire history of the sith, lets say thousants of years, in just under 40 to 50 years. Where does the "growing" in strength part come in?
Lets not forgett that IF your students kills you and THEN turns to the light side, all that sith knowledge, history and mindset dies.
There is a reason why pre-modern people didnt just make one child and left it at that...
The rule of Two is stupid and only worked because the writer needed to fit it into the main movies storie...
I wonder how many people will recognize that One particular piece of art isn’t even Star Wars at all it is actually set an art of the Dragonborn DLC of elder scrolls five Skyrim if you’ve never heard of it look it up you’re on TH-cam after all so you have zero excuses.
Can the Baneite sith really be said to be smarter? The plan may have worked (for all of ten seconds) but the existence of Darth Gravid proves that it was always an instant away from failing. Hell, Vader's turn to the light did make it fail. It was a gamble rather than a cunning masterpiece. For intelligence it would be better to compare their actual advancements in the force and the only one of the modern sith to really do anything impressive there was Darth Plagueis. There were plenty who came closer to achieving immortality than him.
Does anyone know where the source of the picture at: 13:23 to13:31 is from? Which artist it's from and if it depicts any specific character, have tried reverse image searched and also general googling for about 30mins now, and i can't find anything, any help would be appreciated i really enjoy that art.
0:11 through strength I gain power, through power I gain victory
Highly disagree. Darth Sidious I have no doubt could single handedly destroy any sith lord from the past. Darth Sidious created new abilities and literally was the absolute pure manifestation of the dark side. His force storms, his force cyclone and his ability to cheat death and manipulate made him the ultimate expression of the sith order. He created Anakin and manipulated him from a child, not only playing puppet master to both sides of the civil war right under the nose of the jedi but he turned their savior into their destruction while simultaneously having Anakin born into slavery just to be forced back into slavery within his own body. No sith lord could ever hold a candle to Darth Sidious and I think honestly if it wasn't for the stupid way he was killed when he came back, even then supposedly it took all of the jedi that ever lived to destroy Sidious for good... Though I still think realistically he wouldn't have just stood there and let his lightning be deflected back on him. I see him giving her the darth maul treatment since he flung Ben far as fuck with the flick of a finger. I don't see why he wouldn't have done the same if she was somehow able to hold off his lightning which like i said their reasoning was that all the jedi that ever lived were flowing through her, where as when he said I am all the sith, I think he meant it in the sense of that he was the end result of Bane's rule of 2 and the knowledge of all the sith.
But if he hadn't died in the stupid way he did he would have single handedly taken out an entire fleet of ships with his force storm ability without harming his own ships. He then would have found a new apprentice and taken over the galaxy once again. If it was just Ben and Rey vs Sidious without "all the jedi" he would have wiped the floor with them. They would have been easier to beat than savage oppress and darth maul. They would have died in seconds. If he used his amped up force lightning on them when they were on the ground he could have killed them both nearly instantly but plot armor. Sidious wouldn't just drain their life essence then let them live. He doesn't make mistakes like that. He would have made sure they were dead before attacking the rebel alliance fleet.
If you want to take down an undefeatable super power of any kind, take it out from the inside out. It happens in real life and star wars.
We also need to consider that old republic era accounts should be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of the "evidence" we have of the feats people usually talk about regarding the old sith are really just stories that have a super fanboy-ish vibe (i.e Kreia). Content actually following relevant characters from this time show they dominate but no where near to the same deified degree that we're used to hearing.
I would argue that Darth Sidious was no better than the ancient Sith. Sidious may have subjugated the entire galaxy but only did so for 19 years. The ancient Sith maintained an empire of smaller size but lasted much longer than 19 years. The modern day Sith “grand plan” only resulted in 19 years of rule. 1000 years of planning and cunning to get less than two decades of undisputed galactic control. The Jedi also weren’t fully destroyed. At the rise of the galactic empire two prominent Jedi existed while two prominent Sith existed. Luke Skywalker also rebuilt the Jedi order soon after the empire fell.
Every Sith wanted that goal. What Sidious so successful was that he managed to achieve what so other Sith Lords failed. Destroyed the Jedi and Conquered the Galaxy.
Rule of two is dumb let's get back to armies of Sith vs armies of Jedi lol. I mean rule of two you always have to worry about your apprentice may as well have a rule of three so that another Sith occupies their thoughts and pit them against one another. Besides, why not have a powerful army of force wielders. It be so cool if they would do an old republic movie, or throw out the new ones and make legends canon.
in legends, it was also a third purge, atleast i think its considerd a purge but not that mutch of info about it done by the One sith some 120-130 years ABY
Honestly the rule of two and the sith order as a whole is a contradiction of being a sith to be a sith is to use the force to serve you you strive to gain power abiding by an emperor or a philosophy defeats the purpose of being a sith so yes I see why the first sith hated what he created it's chaotic no matter how you try to straighten it
Rule of two was a bad system,on paper it seems great mo infighting and master teaches apprentice everything he knows and apprentice kills his master in a 1v1 to prove he was more knowledgable and stronger so that sith keep getting stronger BUT once u got apprentices using deceit to kill their monster they dont complete their training and arent stronger then their master so sith become weaker. Sidious an example of this he killed his master in his sleep so he never learned how to manipulate the force to make people immortal or make himself more force sensitive etc