The OMTech Polar and Gweike Cloud are (mostly) Desktop CO2 Lasers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2023
- Thanks to OMTech and Gweike for sending me these lasers for review. I was not financially compensated and am not part of any affiliate program from either company. Gweike said I could keep their laser if I join their affiliate program and sell three units through my link, so they get their laser back.
Da OMTech: bit.ly/3TvKKeL
Da Gweike: www.gweikecloud.com/?ref=DkXf...
Da Cabinet OmTech: bit.ly/42sHmFr - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Hey, just a quick note. There was a section in the original video where I stated the laser tube in my cabinet laser is already due for replacement. Wrong! After posting this I found out it just had a dirty lens. So I've removed that portion of the video. It will take a while for that change to take effect
Are you talking about around 3:38? If so, I'm still seeing it.
Ha, I still saw it! Just wondering where you got the 10.000 hour laser lifespan from. Omtech’s german site states 2000h at very low 10-40% power and 400 hours at 70-100%. 10k hours seems like a lot…
Not yet you haven't :-) it'll update eventually
Erm... hate to break it to you Robert...
@@mediocrefunkybeat It can take a few hours for the online editor to update
I guess instructions of "removing spaces from wifi name" does not mean you should not enter spaces in the box, but you should rename your wifi.
Wonder if putting the ssid in quotes would work lol
That sounds even worse, you have to really try to make entering the WIFI SSID a difficult process.
@@AchievedZeus574 If it does, that'd have some very interesting security implications. I wonder if someone's tried installing a minecraft server on it.
Anyone even remotely familiar with technology and the issues that can arise with putting spaces in names like this should never put a space in their wifi name.
@@nstg8 My SSID is all emojis
I have wanted to put a laser in our lab for a while and I'm getting closer all the time. Not with either of these, whatsoever, but closer. 😁👍
might want to take a look at the xtool co2 lqser they just anounced , but its kind expensive
I love seeing you here.
@@nerobro 👋😁
CO2 Lasers are damn useful.
After seeing what The Warthog Project has done with a basic one, making all of his button panels and cockpit dials, I have been gunning for one myself.
From personal experience I'd recommend anything from Epilog out of Colorado. They're more expensive than Glowforge but if you're going to use the machine a lot and want a USA designed, engineered, and built machine they are so worth it. Oh, they also have machines that have CO2 and fiber sources in one machine, with the fiber laser you can do direct metal engraving, and all their machines are air cooled.
"Then it turns purple" is never a good sign in my experience
😆😆
I read this comment before watching, and when I heard him say it, I lost it. 😂 It's the attitude spun into it, like, "this thing does nothing and then has the audacity to turn purple!"
they are telling you to change your IP on your workstation because they were lazy and their device wifi does not provide DHCP. Once you've changed the IP, it is so that you can get to a web or ssh interface on the device, so that you can setup your NORMAL wifi through that interface. Then you set your computer back to your usual network and both are connected to your normal wifi.
Yeah, funny how that simple (and explained in detail in the tutorial video) thing is so confusing for some :)
And this channel is mostly about doing unusual technical things yourself in the first place! Oh the irony :)
This is what I wanted to commented, you did a great job lol
It's 2023 stop acting like this is a sane implementation on any device, let alone one costing nearly $3000
@@futuju I didn't say it was sane. I said they were lazy and did not implement DHCP. Cost != technical competency, either. There is still "enterprise" level hardware that requires this kind of a setup. It's dumb. If done on an Ethernet cable (assigning your own IP address by default) if someone plugs it in in the wrong place it can (and does) cause outages. The bar, it is very, VERY low.
@@smarouchoc7300
That’s kind of like the app for my connected light switches and smart plugs requiring me to switch to my 2.5 wifi to program anything but letting me stay on 5.0 to control them.
Your segments on the connectivity woes were hilarious, you've really improved your craft from amazing to outstanding, Robert~
Christ how do they get something so easy, so wrong! Every smart lightbulb in the world has an ESP32/2866 that can present an AP and a captive portal to register it with your wifi in seconds, hell if your hand y with Arduino, you can do it yourself in 10 lines of code and 2$.
@@EvileDik Right? Like holy shit it seemed like they had their heads up their ass when they were designing the machines
It’s crazy. I’m an audio engineer and record producer. I have ZERO use for laser cutters, or 3d printers, or the like… but every time I watch one of your videos, I try to rationalize buying one.
I am NOT in the market for any kind of cutting machines. And still I watched the whole thing and was hooked from start fo finish. This is some sort of fusion between standup and practical reviews. I love it!
I never owned a car, cars dont interest me ...carpentry/metalwork etc etc doesn interest me ...and yet i watch every video he makes.. they entertaining and calming to me :)
He knows his stuff
Best laser review ever!! Far from the infomercial every other channel does because they got it free. Thanks for real information
yea ive seen numerous reviews that dont mention any of these issues, thats why its worth watching a range of them, too many supposed reviewers are just getting a free machine or sponsorship deal, they have to realise they are putting off their subscribers. reminds me of all the x-carve reviews, and a year or so later they all upgraded to a proper CNC😄
I flinch whenever I see USB A connector where there should be USB B... so you need TWO non-standard cables...
I wonder if it's just because a USB-A socket is a fraction cheaper than a USB-B one
At this point I refuse to purchase anything that doesn't come with a usb-c connector. It's 2023, lets stop living in the past.
@@nstg8 good luck with industrial equipment lmao. it'll be another 5 years before it's common, let alone standard
I cringe at anything that's not USB-C tbh
@@nstg8 Couldn't disagree more. Fixed appliances like printers or CNC machines SHOULD NOT have Type C connectors, period, unless they specifically need USB 3 functionality; full-size USB Type B is vastly preferable (though even then I'd still prefer to just have a DB9 serial port).
There's no OTG mode, nobody uses it for TTL serial or audio passthrough or charging, and you'd be hard pressed to even find a "charging only" A to full-size-B cable. Only one thing that can be on the other side of that connector, and one possible protocol. If it fits, it works.
I'll take flipping the type A end over a few times any day, over trying to debug all the "Audio Accessory Mode" or "Alternate Mode DisplayPort" or "VOOC E-Marker" or "Source-default Dual Role Data" bullshit that's possible with Type C. And if it weren't bad enough, the USB-IF keeps retroactively changing the spec every few weeks it seems, just to keep everyone on their toes. There are a thousand different features a type C device or cable can fail to support, and even more nonstandard uses and shortcuts and hacks out there in the wild. And when I'm trying to debug the thousands of dollars of equipment at the other end of that cable, I would _vastly_ prefer a connector I _don't_ have to keep second-guessing at every turn.
How does this channel not have a "review & comparisons" playlist? These videos are amazing an informative (and saved me money and research time)
Thanks Robert, everytime I see a new video from you I know I'm in for a treat. You never dissapoints.
I miss this channel. I can't wait for the next video. Some of my favorite,most inspirational videos I have seen are your table saw restoration and your miter saw/radial arm saw station builds.
I'm not even in the market for a laser, but you're so relatable I just want to watch and listen for the information. Great job!
Dude the freaken lighting, insulation, and wall panels you installed look great.
I just realized it's one of those things you don't notice, cause it looks so good it doesn't stand out in a bad way in your mind.
I watch all of your videos, I like all the car stuff, and just discovered this channel. You have such a great attitude and personality , keep up the fantastic work on both channel !!!
Your rants are amazing. Its like you are saying what I would be thinking. Love it.
This is one of the best reviews I have ever seen - I cannot thank you enough. I have a xtool M1 and was looking at a bigger one and so was tempted by OMTECH and Gweike. Your review was on point. If only more people did waht you do. I am so grateful. I would love for you to review the xtool P2!!!!
Thank you for the laser guide! I really enjoy all your videos, from cars to wood working to feathered dinosaurs. I would really love to get a laser engraver but pretty sure that's just cause I am a nerd and want fun toys. Keep being awesome!
I love watching your channels! How much do I like watching them? I have really no interest in buying a laser printer, but it's fun to watch you give your thoughts and opinions. Keep up the great work!!!
Hands down the best review/comparison video I have ever seen. Extremely informative, very funny and entertaining, what's not to like?
I am considering my first laser purchase and I feel like I learnt more in this short video about design and use than the last few weeks of reading.
Big thanks from me.
This is the best video found talking about either of these machines.
OMG, I love you! What a great review, no wasted time, very funny and real info a person would discover after buying one!
🎉great review thank you. Love it when you say these are frustrating but still great especially for the price. Just highlights the trade offs.
literally the most helpful video I've seen that compares desktop lasercutters!!!! omg bless you
I think these companies should pay you to test their units before they go to market. Refreshingly Frank and honest in your assessments. Love your videos keep them coming
I have SO much happiness right now, been waiting for more UnderDunn videos!
So glad I found your video. Was getting close to pulling the trigger on the Polar. Going to go with a cabinet it seems. Thanks!
Excellent review and comparison. Best laser review I've seen yet.
You should do more content on this channel. I'm not into cars but loved your workshop series.
Love all the videos, but I especially love these honest and detailed reviews of various tools you use around the shop. Too many channels say everything is great, everything is fine and they aren't willing to be honest with their reviews.
Too true, I've watched multiple reviews of both the Omtech and Gwenneth machines and no one has mentioned any of these hassles, they all gave glowing reviews of how "amazing and easy they are and there are no issues ever" which anyone sane knows is a load of horse poop.
Thanks for the silly grin on my face. I always enjoy your sense of humor.
Dynamic Duo! I’m cracking up. Great video! You just saved me a lot of frustration I didn’t need right now.
You are, hands down, the most entertaining TH-camr out there, bar none! I absolutely love your vids and your sense of humour. 😂😂😅😅
Don't have a laser, never will have - but still excited over a new Under Dunn video explaining (in your own wonderful way) ANYTHING!!
Man
This Makes me want to rethink the omtech. Nobody has reported these issues. great video
I will absolutely never buy a desktop laser, or indeed any laser.
I will also never not watch an episode. Legend.
You do not have to manually adjust focus on either of these machines each time. You need to properly set them up in Lightburn. You have to go under device settings and turn on "enable Z axis". That will allow lightburn to control the z axis automatically. When you do this you will get a new box on layers tab labeled "material ". Here you enter the distance to move to focus. The distance the z axis moves from home position to place the focal point at the top surface of the table is approximately 17mm so you need to subtract your material thickness to have the focal point be on top of material. So if you have 3mm material you would enter 14mm. If you also select "optimize Z moves" in device settings the Z axis won't raise after each operation.
Also the Polar uses an off the shelf Ruida controller with external stepper drivers and the Gweiki uses a Gweiki made custom controller that mimics a Ruida controller. You can buy an external display just like your other laser for the polar that just plugs into the controller. You cannot with the Gweiki.
So what you described is basically the same thing as he did in the video, juts in different places in the software. And it still sounds way more complicated and prone to errors than the manual knob and spacer thing.
@mjc0961 no. What I described you do once and then it is all automatic. What he described he has to do every time.
That's all still extremely clunky and not auto focus
@Under Dunn after initial setup all you do is enter one number in a box to tell machine material size. How is that clunky? Very easy.
@@reeves29456 that's still annoying dawg.
I just a reviewed this too and my subs pointed me to you. loved it! you got me at Gwinith lol.
I've been saving up for the Gweike, this is the first review I've seen highlighting these issues. I wonder if the new Cloud Pro has addressed them? Anyway, you made me laugh and saved me money. Subscribed! :)
My issue with the Glowforge is not so much the price, but that you are locked into their cloud service, and if/when they go under or stop it, you have a big closed-source brick
I have a Glowforge plus and the cloud service sucks. Same glowing button and wifi issues. Why they can't add a screen, knob and SD card slot like a $150 3D printer, I have no idea. Looking to sell it and get one of the bigger ones he has in his shop.
@JohnMosesBrowningVEVO In many cases, it's not even planned. Companies get bought or they collapse. Without the service and source in some sort of escrow, you are not going to get anything. Several years back, I bought a kickstarter 3d printer from a French company. The printer had a ton of promise, so a lot of us backed the project. After delivering hardware, they folded because they had an unsustainable business model. And because all their command and control was online, you had to rip and replace the proprietary control board to be able to use anything with the printer. Kickstarter is always a risk, but this really highlighted the problems with relying on external services. After that, I decided to never again purchase a tool that would be a brick if the company went out of business or decided to stop support. I keep tools a lot longer than, say, smart phones or other devices where you expect some churn.
Omtech has a 50W half cabinet - that can go on a low table - it's got about the same size as two desktop lasers, but is twice as high. It's also really good !
Nice of them to make you ship the one back just because you didn't want to sell their trash for them. Did you mean to call it "Gweneth" in the description? Great video as always.
5:48 Sounds like it started life as a desktop CNC mill. Lift tool from workpiece, wait for tool to stop spinning, then return.
13:11 Wow, sounds like they made an electric manual focus... That's like calling a car with an electric choke "Fuel injected"
They said right in the beginning of the video that they were going to call it "Gweneth", so yes, they probably meant to call it that in the description. :)
That it's reusing cnc firmware was my first thought, my guess is they're using something like marlin with dodgy presets that it was easier to not change. I did have a look and the ruida boards are specifically built for lasers so it seems odd, but I wonder if the machine profile has some sort dodgy gcode transformation that needs to be removed 🤔
@@IstasPumaNevada They? I didn't know Robert was running in parallel
@@AiOinc1 "They" can be a singular or plural pronoun, in this case it's singular because it's referring only to Robert.
@@AiOinc1 He is known to run clones
Love you honest reviews
Great video! Very informative.
The only thing I had issue with in the whole video is your outrage of the passthrough on the back. That's so you can pass through from the front when the drawer was off, and keep going out the back. The issue I have about the back passthrough is how thin it is really limiting the size of stuff you can pass through.
Love the authenticity.
I appreciate honesty in TH-camrs, as opposed to eluding it's crap, but dressing it up as decorated crap.. Thanks for the review.
Most hilarious laser review I’ve ever seen!
I’m loving this rant.
Thanks for a great video. Nice to see someone show the negatives for a change. Been thinking about getting a Gwyneth as I don't have Glowforge money. Maybe I'll save a bit longer and get a P2.
Great info. I have a cheapo diode laser. I've probably spent 80% of my time with it fiddling with belts, settings, making an enclosure, etc and 20% actually using it. That being said, it's a ton of fun. I do wish I had spent more for a more out-of-the-box solution though.
Just the video I was looking for. I think that for the money that big chunker would be a great option for me. But like you said, space is a big reason to look at the Polar or the Gweneth.
LOL Love the red Lada in your garage :))
Good stuff. Great video.
I like hearing the chickens and turkeys in the background of this video.
I have no intention of buying a laser engraver, ever. But I watched the entire video. Which proves conclusively that the best thing about these lasers is the guy talking about them.
i feel like the reason the whatever cloud raises the head and waits is probably because its built on an off the shelf CNC controller and those are safety measures to make sure the spindle is out of the way and properly spun down
I’ve been waiting for a honest comparison between these. Thanks! Makes me wonder how the xtool P2 will compare to these.
Excellent video; thanks for sharing! I was reluctant to watch it as I ordered a Gwyneth Cloud a few weeks ago, but the RF version so no coolant on m' labels (no room for a large laser, and it needs to be mobile). I'll be using Lightburn/USB; no cloud/WiFi. Good suggestion about disabling the autofocus, and wondering if the firmware could be tweaked to get rid of the 10sec dwell at the end of every job (I wonder what they were thinking there...?!).
Anyway, greetings from a new subscriber in the UK!😁
Very cool! i recommend your channel to everyone I know
Love the reviews. You can tell at 2:30 that you're talkin' turkey. 🦃
Best review I've seen
it'd be nice if they had a little microswitch probe or something so it could work out the material height for you-- maybe even a mesh like 3d printing so it can focus cleaning across slightly un-even workpieces.
I really appreciate open hoods of those cars...
The connection issues seem like a perfect project for a RasPi.
I'm not ever going to be in the market for one of these things, but the fiddly needy nature of both of them would surely drive me over the edge of sanity.
I run a 2500 watt industrial laser at work and I've been eyeing these two, or the Omtech cabinet like yours so thank you very very much for the straightforward, honest review. Even though I don't really have space for the cabinet machine, I wouldn't even consider the desktops (or a slowforge) after this video.
The first thing I will tell you as a professional laserer is that you are 100% correct that these home gamer machines NEED an error/message display, even if it's hidden (inside the drawer or on the back of the machine?) you simply must have some way to troubleshoot errors because you WILL encounter errors.
Most new laserers are not going to have the frame of reference to know why something is not working and there are a great number of mechanical or electrical issues that can crop up even on a simple machine like these.
Second, more power is more better. Higher power is so much more important than most people will think, it's not just about speed but about clean, complete combustion or melting of the material being cut. If you cut through part way and ignite the material in the kerf you can ruin your part, destroy your machine or burn down your house depending how observant you are and whether you're attending the machine like you really ought to be.
Third, the Gwenneth air assist being kinked is very very likely to be the reason it cuts more slowly, air assist is life.
I used to run a 8KW disc laser. They would not let me replace an operator who couldn't stay off their phone. A simple protective window swap was ignored until it shattered. The bill was over $40K, just for the new head.
I also used to run a "full spectrum laser" 120W co2, a big 48" wide cabinet laser. Maintaining proper beam squareness with the gantry was a pain, but might have had something to do with it's size. It also had a stepper motor and belted drive for electric bed lifting. That design was garbage and I should have replaced it all with individual motors. Squaring the bed and messing with belt tension was necessary often. Weight and it's location on the bed was critical to note before trying to move it. It was 6mm wide GT2 belt on something like 36mm timing sprockets, slipped like mad. That was a long while ago though, it had the same exact controller panel his does.
His cabinet has a thumbwheel in the corner to adjust, makes me nervous. Probably the same setup, just manually driven. You can do some adjustment with the head to focus instead, which is what I did more often than not to avoid bed alignment...
This video really answered alot of my questions. Thank you. I'm looking at the OMTech 60w, with auto focus. Let me know what you think please.
This video is Pure art!
Wonderful video as always
Every single "Gwyneth" filled me with joy.
The polar does come with a small ruler that allows you to manually focus just like your big blue laser. And, if you are up to it, you can install that same control panel but you have to buy it separate.
Also I have to say, It works very well and is amazing to watch :))
Probably the best channel!
Thanks for the vid! I'm legit in the market, basically only looking at these two models and the focusing woes alone cement the omtech as my choice.
Ethernet/WiFi should be configurable over usb it’s just a matter of setting it to dhcp or a static in your own ip range - as for controls you should be able to do that with a pendent or over usb
Me: wants laser cutter
My budget: Scissors
Great review
your a natural on camera mate (those eyebrow's) do you write a script and the read off cue cards dont no how you remember it all off hand, your editing is excellent, keep it it going on both your channels,
I'm operating a 25W GCC Spirit at my work, it's a really solid machine with proper autofocus and a proper operator panel, haven't tried it with LightBurn yet, we use a program called FlexiDesign but InkScape, Illustrator and CorelDraw so I think it'll work with LightBurn
Also, if anyone wants to make black marks in metal, kapton tape works better than CerMark but you'll have to burn more slowly
Loved the video! Would a solution for the lack of error messages to print out a key of what each light colour means for the errors. I assume there's a page in the manual that explains what light colour means what went wrong. It would ruin the sex appeal of the machine having paper taped to the front, but it would solve the problem
*I hope you do one review with the "xtool P2"*
Have not seen you in forever. Miss your vids!!! Hope all is ok.
Another great video as always! I've had my glowforge for a little over a year at this point, and honestly I think this video actually makes a pretty compelling case for getting a glowforge over either of these machines. Sure my inner 'do it all myself' developer brain was a little leery of the whole "walled garden cloud control solution" side of the GF, but honestly, it's a dream to use the machine and the app, and I haven't had to troubleshoot anything at all, I've never even had to focus it!
If you're looking to get a laser because you really want a project to tinker with, it sounds like Omtech and Gwenyth here have got you covered, but if you're just a maker making stuff, a maker space, a school or a small business and you just want a tool that works? The GF is 100% the way to go, you will not regret it, it's rad as hell.
One final note: the GF basic is $4000, list price ( unless you find someone's referal code - which typically knock a couple hundred off.) Sure, that's 1000 more than these two, but honestly if you're already down to spend 3000 on a laser cutter it seems silly to try to save at the end by buying a not fully baked knock-off.
I dont even see a "Basic" on their website. I only see a Plus and a Pro. And neither are $4k; they're $5k and $7k! Big difference over a $3k machine. Where are you seeing the Basic?
Cloud control is ok if you can self host or run without it. Otherwise it's a non starter.
like the wheego in background. i have the last one driven daily
I enjoy your videos very much, facts are first and foremost, right amount of comedy thrown in to keep audience amused and connected. I recently purchased the Monport 60w with manual focus and use LightBurn. I am using the supplied aquarium pump but plan on converting a countertop ice maker as a chiller(1/4 or less the price of the monport chiller). Maybe you could do this in a video? Thanks for sharing
1. Is that a Lada in the background? Looks like the car my dad had when I was little and living in Poland in the 80's. I think it was a Lada Riva 1500cc I4.
2. Thank you very much for your honest and fair review. I watched a bunch of other videos and no one mentioned how darn loud these are or pretty much anything negative. I ultimately bought an X Tool D1 Pro for my 1st laser. It's not perfect, but it's decently quiet and a good 1st machine as I'm not sure if I'll stick with lasers long-term. Super fun for now. Still have both eyes! :)
Lightburn has a spot to enter in the material thickness so it does the calculations for you.
Haha, love the commentary 🤩
Yes but what about the leaf blower?
Not a bad little unit. Even though he has the nozzle on upside down.
Hey Robert. I know you are working on you other channel a lot, but it’s been over a year since you posted in this channel. Just wanted to say I miss your woodworking videos. They are great quality and super funny. Wish more channels had your style. Hope you’re doing well bro
If the machines work well via the ethernet socket but are a pain via wifi then you might find that the vonets wifi bridge is a neat solution. They're pretty cheap and would neatly bypass all the ludicrous config issues you mentioned.
You can easily install a Ruida control module that has the same panel as your cabinet laser.
You can add a control panel to the OMTech and an infrared laser dot to show where the laser will strike.
lol..... love the video. get a bucket.. I am coming from a k40 so i know this all to well.
I have a Full Spectrum Muse. While its not perfect, and their software "Retina Engrave" can be buggy, it is certainly a bit more refined when compared to these machines. I have the "Core" version, which is manual-focus. I purchased as a reman for somewhere around $2500. Would make the same purchase again, but am hoping to move up to a faster machine.
great video. do you have any recommendations for a desktop style CO2 laser then? sounds like the one you like is a bit too big. Any other leads on something else to consider?
wow. Great video. I love the way you pick them apart. You are so right. Why did they do so many stupid things? Anyone can tell those are real flaws and poor design. Thanks for the breakdown!!
At least the benefit of a localized wifi with the Omtech is you get the privacy security if you are doing sensitive work (for example engraving personal information on something, vs risk of exposing that information online thru a cloud service. Which given how you have to input all the info manually on the Qweile, could just as easily include key loggers and unknowingly then send your network info to who knows...
great video and information.
You are too funny. Excellent video. Would you advise against building one's own CO2 laser cutter??