I was at the local range patterning a side-by-side with some cheap ammo when I saw an old man and a boy watching. The boy asked: "Grandpa, how come you don't see many shotguns with the barrels beside each other." The old man replied gruffly: "Because people have lost their damned sense of taste."
They are obsolete unless there's some antiquated local laws forcing you to use them. Pump-actions and semi-autos are super reliable and extremely cheap on top of being able to carry a lot more ammo in the tube.
Thank you so much for these great videos! Since I am in the US, I appreciate that you show the British hunting and shooting traditions. It is very interesting to me! I particularly like the videos that feature Simon, as I love side by sides. His knowledge of side by sides is extraordinary and he always has beautiful and interesting guns to share. I would really like to see you do a video of rough shooting/walk up hunting that you were discussing in this video. Cheers from the US!
You are so right! More videos with Simon teaching/presenting alongside you, and more classic/vintage SxS guns please! Thanks for another great episode!
I certainly followed Simon's advice once I bought my first vintage SxS. Bought a bigger safe and started buying more guns. LOL Now I'm around 20 vintage SxS and in the market for the next safe!
I recently got a cheap AYA Yeoman ejector and I'm in love with side by sides now, strangely I'm pretty handy with it and get better scores with a SBS than my OU 20 bore. I'm hooked!
In the US of A, the Stevens, 311 is a very good working man’s side by side . Ask me how I know , I’ve been hunting with them for 50 years in all but 410 bore.
Some months ago I aquired a very nice 100 year old E M Reilly 16 bore hammer gun, am getting better at clays with it and love it to bits. Like you said, you can miss in style with an old SXS. My M2 is feeling neglected.
Totally get this. I have never like over and unders. I do have an over and under AyA coral, but its really a side by side in terms of weight and balance. Best fun though is a little 4 1/2 lb English boxlocock 410 double. I have one with a 15” stock and its a joy to shoot both on clays and game.
Great video! I fell in love with side by sides and the first one I got was a Husqvarna 310A. It's been a joy to shoot, and cost right around $200.00. now I've been saving for a true trap grade SxS and can't wait for the day I can finally take it home.
Have only been clay shooting for 10 months, bought a couple of new Beretta O/U's and they are nice, but shooting my ggrandfathers SxS English BLNE is just a joy. Recently bought two vintage German SxS's for my wife and I so am just sorting out the comb and lop at the moment (very different stock dimensions to my English gun). Looking forward to the journey.
Yeah, we don't get nearly as much vintage double for the money over here. £200 currently = $263. $250 - 300 might get you into a shootable old Stevens, which could maybe be thought of as an American Baikal. And our agricultural grade boxlocks were built nothing like the one you have in this video. Many are held shut by a sliding wedge into a barrel extension at the rear, and the hinge pin does all the work of holding the barrels against the breech while firing. They were designed for four or five boxes of shells a year.
Love these. And it feels so wrong that such a beautiful boxlock I would snap up in a heartbeat is so cheap there and so (relatively) expensive here in the US once it gets through customs. Ugh.
It’s all done on purpose. The owner gets pennies on the dollar, yet the consumer pays top dollar. All so the middle man can profit and grab a piece of the pie. And there is several middle men that are going to get their cut including the government
Great video gentleman, and I totally agree that gun fit thumps price paid. As an example I have a Westley Richards bar in wood hammer gun and a J.Blanch & Son SLE which both cost me around 6K USD. But I also have a Wm. Moore side lever non rebounding hammer gun I paid less that $800 for. It's the Moore that breaks the most clays for this old guy, and I shoot low gun most of the time.
A local auction sold a WCScott 25 inch barrelled s/s in a leather case for 210(beating my commission bid by 10) and a stunningly beautiful Bland sidelock,no case for 260.Two English guns for under 500,the world has gone mad.If I could afford it I`d be buying s/s all day.
To expand upon the question at 12:25, yes, we Americans would definitely appreciate British boxlocks more. I recently purchased a rather plain J. Robertson (yes, one of the Birmingham boxlocks that Boss & Co. sold under the trade name of Mr. Robertson that Simon has talked about before) for nearly $1400, so yes, we're willing to pay that export/import price for what would likely be considered a lesser gun in England. Right now, side-by-side shotguns are having a bit of a resurgence in the US, but with the vast majority of our domestically produced vintage SxS guns being "farmer grade" when they were new, finding anything that even comes close to the quality the boxlock you and Simon are shooting in this video is difficult.
robertson box locks like Boss were 'London Best' weren't they. In australia we would be paing at least double (everything is more expensive here though)
@@scottbrooks7978 No, the Robertson guns from the early-to-mid 20th century were Birmingham guns that were made to Boss's standards and then finished at Boss in London for their clients. Superior to the average Birmingham boxlock, but not quite "London Best" which are typically sidelock guns. OF interesting note, there are no maker's hallmarks on my Robertson other than the J. Robertson 41 Albemarle St. W.1 address. No idea what Birmingham house originally made it. I guess Boss didn't want anyone else's name appearing on the arms they sold.
@@tallen702 Thanks. I have recently bought a mid 50's William Powell BLE pigeon gun to add to my sporting clay SxS collection and so have been doing a fair bit of reading. Its quite funny how many "Purdey of the north" manufacturers there were. Simon calls Pape the P of the N is this video and a Scribe Hound article gives that descriptor to WP & Sons :)
Videos like these are the reason why I'm falling in love with side by side shotguns. I have one question: is a front heavy side by side better for a person who shoots with a semi automatic shotgun?
As the fellow noted, in the States most shots are going away shots on pheasants, grouse or chukars. I’ve never even heard of a driven shoot in the US, though I expect there may be one somewhere. In the field I prefer extractors to ejectors as there is generally not much need to reload fast, and I can just pull the empty shells and put them in my pocket. We’re being forced toward buying newer guns now in places like California as lead for bullets or shot is pretty much banned now save for some private clubs.
All guns nitro proofed, still in proof and not choked modified or less should be suitable for standard steel loads, but not superior steel. Hand loads for older and more heavily choked guns = bismuth.
Here in Canada we get a lot of used European SxS shotguns. I guess people in Europe, particularly then Nordics have to get rid of their old rifles and shotguns, and they get collected and sold here for peanuts. I am very thankful for that. We get anything from German, French, Hungarian, Russian, Finnish, Swedish, Swiss, Austrian, British, etc. I have a hammerfired Husqvarna SxS and I swear it was barely used because the wood was mint. I got it for $275 CAD.
Recently came across your channel. Well put together and very informative. Subscribed. Would like to see some smallbore (410 & 28g) comparisons, both with vintage and modern guns.
It was easier for me to from my semi auto to a side by side , than from a semi auto to over under. I still can’t get along with the heavy over and under guns.
I’ll be having a look on the holts app after this I’m in the market for another side by side there such a joy to shoot at anything be it game or clays shooting a side by side just feels natural the gun is a part of you
I've always hunted with a break action. Shotguns. I've had no trouble picking up a S×S And have an any trouble getting used to it. Nor going to the second trigger. Or should I say the left barrel for a game that got up out there in distance for my first shot? Thanks for the video.
As an American whose main pastime is chasing birddogs across our great nation "rough shooting"...I can't begin to describe how green with jealous rage I am! Watching our cousins across the pond, pick up these absolutely amazing shotguns for nearly free.... Jesus man.... It's just unequivocally unjust. In every manner of the sense. 200 pounds for a London boxlock? Fuck me!
Sorry, but a silly question from Canada. (Or North America in General) It is common practice to shot straight up into the air, eh? Is there any safety concerns? Here in North America, we don't often shot at an elevation above 60 degrees.
Can't afford an expensive gun, we were so poor coming up,we had a wood burning TV, I had to get up early and chop wood on Saturdays to watch cartoons. The rich family next door had a kerosene TV.
Nothing will happen to them. If they are nitro proofed like the vast majority are, you can put standard steel loads through them without issue as I have my over 50yr old AYA yeoman.
@@jaseyb1 one is just lighter than 1/4 and the other is a light full choke. What is your gun? Place near me charges 30quid a barrel to open chokes. Considering having my light full opened to 1/4. My 40 yr old sarasketa Over/Under(they used one on a cheap vs expensive test on this channel a few years ago)is a tight half and tight full and I've put the same 32g 3s through it with no problems...albeit the barrels are quite heavy walled in comparison
@@jaseyb1 you shouldn’t shoot standard steel through anymore than 1/2 choke… TGS have done a video on this in the past. It is ok in the short term but over time this will cause your barrels to bulge
Couldn’t help but notice you both using the front trigger first. I was always taught that the rear trigger should be pulled first for a multitude of reasons. 1. The rear trigger tends to always fire the left barrel. For a right handed shooter, this results in less torque due to the barrel line being more central to the body and tends to counter act the natural tendency to point right on recoil. 2. The rear trigger is offset to the left, which makes finding the forward trigger a naturally easy find when resetting for the second shot. 3. The left barrel is almost always a tighter choke than the right. Which doesn’t support this theory. But James Purdy would argue that. Most of the guys here shooting SxS single trigger and interchangeable chokes… Shoot left barrel first. 🤷♂️ Might make a good video?
Front trigger first, more open choke for first shot on closer game. Slide hand down handle to second trigger with tighter choke for further shot on 2nd target or missed first target. It was always intended to be this way and will result in more game coming home.
I was at the local range patterning a side-by-side with some cheap ammo when I saw an old man and a boy watching. The boy asked: "Grandpa, how come you don't see many shotguns with the barrels beside each other." The old man replied gruffly: "Because people have lost their damned sense of taste."
old fella's mostly right
Epic
Because it was made obsolete very quickly.
@@Dcm193obsolete??? Try hunting with one. You’ll change your mind
They are obsolete unless there's some antiquated local laws forcing you to use them. Pump-actions and semi-autos are super reliable and extremely cheap on top of being able to carry a lot more ammo in the tube.
Thank you so much for these great videos! Since I am in the US, I appreciate that you show the British hunting and shooting traditions. It is very interesting to me! I particularly like the videos that feature Simon, as I love side by sides. His knowledge of side by sides is extraordinary and he always has beautiful and interesting guns to share. I would really like to see you do a video of rough shooting/walk up hunting that you were discussing in this video. Cheers from the US!
You are so right! More videos with Simon teaching/presenting alongside you, and more classic/vintage SxS guns please! Thanks for another great episode!
I certainly followed Simon's advice once I bought my first vintage SxS. Bought a bigger safe and started buying more guns. LOL Now I'm around 20 vintage SxS and in the market for the next safe!
You`re a wise man,not only have you the enjoyment of ownership but when the steel panic is conquered you`ll have made a good investment.
Simon’s final comments are golden. Shoot whatever you have and learn from it.
Wonderful guns. You are very blessed to have access to wonderful guns at affordable prices.
Yup, seeing the little money some of the quality SxS are selling for in the UK, I wish it was easier (and cheaper) to bring them to North America
On a serious note, interesting talk of the American market, and right on point.
I recently got a cheap AYA Yeoman ejector and I'm in love with side by sides now, strangely I'm pretty handy with it and get better scores with a SBS than my OU 20 bore. I'm hooked!
Great video! I really enjoy watching these video's you do with Simon and especially about double guns. Do more of these please.
Thank you TGS. It was so good to breathe fresh air.
All the old side by side guns are great to see. The common man needed a good functioning shotgun.
In the US of A, the Stevens, 311 is a very good working man’s side by side . Ask me how I know , I’ve been hunting with them for 50 years in all but 410 bore.
Oh yes! Sunday morning with TGS, heavenly!
Some months ago I aquired a very nice 100 year old E M Reilly 16 bore hammer gun, am getting better at clays with it and love it to bits. Like you said, you can miss in style with an old SXS. My M2 is feeling neglected.
Totally get this. I have never like over and unders. I do have an over and under AyA coral, but its really a side by side in terms of weight and balance.
Best fun though is a little 4 1/2 lb English boxlocock 410 double. I have one with a 15” stock and its a joy to shoot both on clays and game.
Stocks way too long
@@talisikid1618 all my guns are stocked at 15". Depends on how tall Patrick is
Great video! I fell in love with side by sides and the first one I got was a Husqvarna 310A. It's been a joy to shoot, and cost right around $200.00. now I've been saving for a true trap grade SxS and can't wait for the day I can finally take it home.
Have only been clay shooting for 10 months, bought a couple of new Beretta O/U's and they are nice, but shooting my ggrandfathers SxS English BLNE is just a joy. Recently bought two vintage German SxS's for my wife and I so am just sorting out the comb and lop at the moment (very different stock dimensions to my English gun). Looking forward to the journey.
Yeah, we don't get nearly as much vintage double for the money over here. £200 currently = $263. $250 - 300 might get you into a shootable old Stevens, which could maybe be thought of as an American Baikal.
And our agricultural grade boxlocks were built nothing like the one you have in this video. Many are held shut by a sliding wedge into a barrel extension at the rear, and the hinge pin does all the work of holding the barrels against the breech while firing. They were designed for four or five boxes of shells a year.
Beautiful video and a wonderful and interesting conversation. Excellent!
Simon is a top man
Love these. And it feels so wrong that such a beautiful boxlock I would snap up in a heartbeat is so cheap there and so (relatively) expensive here in the US once it gets through customs. Ugh.
It’s all done on purpose. The owner gets pennies on the dollar, yet the consumer pays top dollar. All so the middle man can profit and grab a piece of the pie. And there is several middle men that are going to get their cut including the government
Great video gentleman, and I totally agree that gun fit thumps price paid. As an example I have a Westley Richards bar in wood hammer gun and a J.Blanch & Son SLE which both cost me around 6K USD. But I also have a Wm. Moore side lever non rebounding hammer gun I paid less that $800 for. It's the Moore that breaks the most clays for this old guy, and I shoot low gun most of the time.
Sorry that was cost me 6K each,
Good morning , love the side by sides 12 bores great show.
Do love a tgs cheap vs expensive series just need a semi auto one next 😉
A local auction sold a WCScott 25 inch barrelled s/s in a leather case for 210(beating my commission bid by 10) and a stunningly beautiful Bland sidelock,no case for 260.Two English guns for under 500,the world has gone mad.If I could afford it I`d be buying s/s all day.
Brilliant 😎, I shoot my clays with a seventy one year old Greener and a brand new Beretta 486 parallelo , different guns but shoot similarly ✌️
I love these videos! Cheers from across the pond.
I have a hardy bros 20 bore ble.it is a thing of beauty and handles fabulously.mine also has the hollow mark on the barerrels
I absolutely love Sidy-by-Sides! I have a Browning BSS from 1973, awesome gun, but I still suck with it... *rofl*
To expand upon the question at 12:25, yes, we Americans would definitely appreciate British boxlocks more. I recently purchased a rather plain J. Robertson (yes, one of the Birmingham boxlocks that Boss & Co. sold under the trade name of Mr. Robertson that Simon has talked about before) for nearly $1400, so yes, we're willing to pay that export/import price for what would likely be considered a lesser gun in England. Right now, side-by-side shotguns are having a bit of a resurgence in the US, but with the vast majority of our domestically produced vintage SxS guns being "farmer grade" when they were new, finding anything that even comes close to the quality the boxlock you and Simon are shooting in this video is difficult.
robertson box locks like Boss were 'London Best' weren't they. In australia we would be paing at least double (everything is more expensive here though)
@@scottbrooks7978 No, the Robertson guns from the early-to-mid 20th century were Birmingham guns that were made to Boss's standards and then finished at Boss in London for their clients. Superior to the average Birmingham boxlock, but not quite "London Best" which are typically sidelock guns. OF interesting note, there are no maker's hallmarks on my Robertson other than the J. Robertson 41 Albemarle St. W.1 address. No idea what Birmingham house originally made it. I guess Boss didn't want anyone else's name appearing on the arms they sold.
@@tallen702 Thanks. I have recently bought a mid 50's William Powell BLE pigeon gun to add to my sporting clay SxS collection and so have been doing a fair bit of reading. Its quite funny how many "Purdey of the north" manufacturers there were. Simon calls Pape the P of the N is this video and a Scribe Hound article gives that descriptor to WP & Sons :)
Videos like these are the reason why I'm falling in love with side by side shotguns. I have one question: is a front heavy side by side better for a person who shoots with a semi automatic shotgun?
I would say probably not, unless you want your side by side to feel like a semi automatic instead of feeling like a side by side.
@@Reckeeto OK thank you👍
As the fellow noted, in the States most shots are going away shots on pheasants, grouse or chukars. I’ve never even heard of a driven shoot in the US, though I expect there may be one somewhere. In the field I prefer extractors to ejectors as there is generally not much need to reload fast, and I can just pull the empty shells and put them in my pocket. We’re being forced toward buying newer guns now in places like California as lead for bullets or shot is pretty much banned now save for some private clubs.
All guns nitro proofed, still in proof and not choked modified or less should be suitable for standard steel loads, but not superior steel. Hand loads for older and more heavily choked guns = bismuth.
Private clubs have continental pheasant shoots. Some time chukar included.
Here in Canada we get a lot of used European SxS shotguns. I guess people in Europe, particularly then Nordics have to get rid of their old rifles and shotguns, and they get collected and sold here for peanuts. I am very thankful for that. We get anything from German, French, Hungarian, Russian, Finnish, Swedish, Swiss, Austrian, British, etc. I have a hammerfired Husqvarna SxS and I swear it was barely used because the wood was mint. I got it for $275 CAD.
Great video really enjoyed
Recently came across your channel. Well put together and very informative. Subscribed.
Would like to see some smallbore (410 & 28g) comparisons, both with vintage and modern guns.
Big up side by sides! Love ‘em
It was easier for me to from my semi auto to a side by side , than from a semi auto to over under. I still can’t get along with the heavy over and under guns.
That box lock do well in Ireland lot off walk up shooting here
call me odd , but i love them both . great guns
I’ll be having a look on the holts app after this I’m in the market for another side by side there such a joy to shoot at anything be it game or clays shooting a side by side just feels natural the gun is a part of you
*guilty 😂 6th side by side bought from Holt's already
I've always hunted with a break action. Shotguns. I've had no trouble picking up a S×S And have an any trouble getting used to it. Nor going to the second trigger. Or should I say the left barrel for a game that got up out there in distance for my first shot? Thanks for the video.
As an American whose main pastime is chasing birddogs across our great nation "rough shooting"...I can't begin to describe how green with jealous rage I am! Watching our cousins across the pond, pick up these absolutely amazing shotguns for nearly free.... Jesus man.... It's just unequivocally unjust. In every manner of the sense. 200 pounds for a London boxlock? Fuck me!
Sorry, but a silly question from Canada. (Or North America in General)
It is common practice to shot straight up into the air, eh?
Is there any safety concerns?
Here in North America, we don't often shot at an elevation above 60 degrees.
The velocity of pellets coming back down in small shot sizes is pretty negligible. Something we don’t worry about much
Simon! Open an American branch for Holts, and import all of these "underappreciated" classics! You'll retire within the year!
Love the older side by sides but are they doomed with the move to non lead shot?
From my understanding, as long as the gun is in proof and is choked at 1/2 or less, you can shoot standard steel through it.
Shotkam on, then surprise its off. Was it ruining the handling, and no misses with shotkam lol!
Thanks again
I am that vicar...!! 😂😂
Love me some side by sides
Where could a buy a cheap double barrel shotgun you know any website’s or shops
Local gun shop?
Great video TGS !
I would really like a Side by Side but have no idea what I looking at in a 100 year ago gun !
The next auction I may dive in….
Me, I'm the guy Jonny, I would have gone out and purchased it. Lol No Doubt 👍
what is that on the barrel a torch? or a laser?
What are they shooting?
Can't afford an expensive gun, we were so poor coming up,we had a wood burning TV, I had to get up early and chop wood on Saturdays to watch cartoons. The rich family next door had a kerosene TV.
I guess eye pro is optional 😁
Whats going to happen to side by sides once steel shot takes over though? Are they going to become expencive ornaments ?
Nothing will happen to them. If they are nitro proofed like the vast majority are, you can put standard steel loads through them without issue as I have my over 50yr old AYA yeoman.
What choke are you using as mine is full & full been told it carnt take steel
@@jaseyb1 one is just lighter than 1/4 and the other is a light full choke. What is your gun? Place near me charges 30quid a barrel to open chokes. Considering having my light full opened to 1/4. My 40 yr old sarasketa Over/Under(they used one on a cheap vs expensive test on this channel a few years ago)is a tight half and tight full and I've put the same 32g 3s through it with no problems...albeit the barrels are quite heavy walled in comparison
@@jaseyb1 you shouldn’t shoot standard steel through anymore than 1/2 choke… TGS have done a video on this in the past. It is ok in the short term but over time this will cause your barrels to bulge
OG firearm
Lets look at hammer guns? Another episode?
I believe that there was a hammer gun episode on this channel a few weeks ago.
If someone can make a 65,000.00 gun, I want to see a 5,000.00 shotgun shell.
What’s that song 😳🤣did I hear the lyrics right
So then, pub?
Song name at 4:00
Bubble Boys: "Ditty Bomb"
Florine Pike
I will buy it for that price
Couldn’t help but notice you both using the front trigger first.
I was always taught that the rear trigger should be pulled first for a multitude of reasons.
1. The rear trigger tends to always fire the left barrel. For a right handed shooter, this results in less torque due to the barrel line being more central to the body and tends to counter act the natural tendency to point right on recoil.
2. The rear trigger is offset to the left, which makes finding the forward trigger a naturally easy find when resetting for the second shot.
3. The left barrel is almost always a tighter choke than the right. Which doesn’t support this theory. But James Purdy would argue that.
Most of the guys here shooting SxS single trigger and interchangeable chokes… Shoot left barrel first. 🤷♂️
Might make a good video?
Front trigger first, more open choke for first shot on closer game. Slide hand down handle to second trigger with tighter choke for further shot on 2nd target or missed first target. It was always intended to be this way and will result in more game coming home.
One if them is awful and kicks like a mule, the other is £200
Is Simon of German ancestry? The