ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Front Office Failure
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- How did the Detroit Tigers get so bad? Al Avila may have something to do with that...
Follow me on Twitter: / beyond_thescore
00:00 Intro
00:43 The Beginning of Al
1:50 Dave Littlefield
3:45 Al Joins Detroit
5:22 Al Ascends
10:00 The Tigers Don't
10:48 What Went Wrong???
13:38 HELP OH GOD PLEASE
14:04 Denouement
As a Tigers fan I would like to thank you for bringing back all of the terrible memories of the last few years lol
Tigers fan here, all of us loved Dave Dombrowski and we knew Avila would fuck it up. You mentioned him trading his son, well he should've much earlier and kept him for years too long because it was his son. Great vid, shocked to see low sub count.
Thanks for saying so dude! I tend to agree, but also imagine your dad trading you then seeing him at the next family gathering
It also didn't help going from Jim Leyland to Brad Ausmus as manager
I'm a tigers fan too, and I think the hiring of Scott Harris as the president of baseball operations is a promising sign. The tigers need to build from within not from without, meaning they need to rebuild their minor league system and scouts and such which seems to be his primary motivation, not overspending on free agents. Look at the houston Astros for instance, they had 14 out of 26 players that they either developed or drafted, including the mvp of the whole playoffs Jeremy Pena, who they drafted in 2018.
Phillies fan here - I'm thankful for DD. I'm hoping he can retool the Phillies to get them back to the WS.
@@jonathan6480 I loved him when he was here too, pretty disappointed we fired him. I for some reason always thought he resigned until I watched this video
I am a huge Pittsburgh pirates Fan David Littlefield is one of the big reasons Why this franchise is such a bad one over the years he just made so many bad trades Take this one he traded a Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton For Jose Hernandez and Bobby hill There was actually a third player in the deal but he didn’t even make the major league so I’m not even gonna bother to look him up But the main problem is He just never had a direction for the team
Tigers fans like myself can definitely relate over the past 7 years. The fact he was in charge of player development for YEARS was bone-chilling to me...
Goddammit Bobby
Believe me I was thinking the same thing the whole time I watched Hill play
@@Beyond_TheScore I’m a Yankee fan and the the tiger fans gave me ptsd I have no sympathy
Pitts problem isn't the gm but the worst ownership in bb for a storied franchise. Mlb should force a sale of that team to someone willing to invest in it. Last year eckersly called them out. Said they were fielding a minor league team. Why do fans pay to see that. You need Dave Parker in rf. Clemente in cf. Stargel in lf.
Well done! That was some terrific work putting this together and telling the story so well. So many things went wrong this year that you can't even make it up. Looking forward to a new era.
Thank you! It was definitely time for Avila to hit the road. Not a bad guy, but not the right guy for the job
Good work, well produced. Fun fact. Dave Littlefield got his start as a tigers scout back originally in the late 80’s-early 90’s. I believe he was their east coast scout
The Marlins started their rebuild earlier than the Tigers, and if you ignore the mickey mouse 2020 season, they are still floundering.
Consider this: Since 2017, they've whiffed on every single first round pick. They've connected on one single major trade (Sandy Alcantara), while whiffing everything else. They traded an almost-2 time MVP (Christian Yelich) for four guys who put up a collective WAR in the negatives. They drafted JJ Bleday over the likes of Anthony Volpe (one of concensus best prospects in baseball), Corbin Carroll (leading the promising and upcoming DBacks), and Bryson Stott (part of this year's World Series-bound Phillies); ALL while passing up, in that same draft, on Rookie of the Year winner and future Braves superstar Michael Harris II, not once, but *TWICE* .
Really makes you think... are the Marlins any better than the Tigers were? I think my optimistic answer would probably be somewhere in the middle. My cynical answer would lean a hard, hard no. Whatever the case may be, I think the Marlins are just as interesting a case study on how not to run an organization as the Tigers are.
Did they really lose of the yelich trade though? I mean he’s been a overwhelming disappointment for the brewers..
@@corycarter4689 Yes, because at the time, Yelich had a lot of value. They traded him for a package of prospects that had questionable hit tools, and in the case of Yamamoto, had fringe stuff at best. That will go down as one of the single worst trades of all time. In terms of the amount of WAR the returning players put up, it is already worse than the gold standard Miguel Cabrera trade.
It's easy to think of a what-if scenario had the Marlins gotten back, say for instance, a Keston Hiura, or something. Or traded Yelich to another team entirely and had another selection of prospects to choose from.
@@GaIeforce they traded a 27 year old who had one prime year left.. it made perfect sense to trade him.. what I didn’t get was the whole Stanton deal..
@@corycarter4689 I was never arguing that. They needed to trade him. That's an undeniable fact. But it makes me wonder what would have been had they acquired a different set of prospects back in return.
I don't mind if the team trades a franchise player, if they can get talented prospects back for them that they can develop. They didn't.
@@GaIeforce brewers were the only team dumb enough to trade for him, and they don’t have the best farm system either.. Miami always has a great farm.. they just trade em
Got my sub. I never knew the connection between Littlefield and Avila but now understand why he was head of player development until last year. Seems Garko is on the ball tho.
Too bad for the DD and AA connection but I'll never hate on DD.
Also, I don't fully blame Avila. He had a lot of faults but some good things, but I think he was never the hire for the new era of MLB and ownership waited too long to can him. Or should have hired a better candidate right away that understood analytics, talent evaluation and development, development, development.
I agree, it's hard to put all the blame on one man and I certainly don't, however he was the anthesis of DD
Mike Illitch must have broken a mirror back in 2016
Here we are
7 years later
It's hard to start things over
Maybe the worst part is other teams have bounced back quicker that started their rebuilds after the Tigers i.e. the Orioles
Subbed. Grew up a Tigers fan under my Dad and Grandpa's influence. Loved baseball, played through high school, loved the Tigers. Stuck it out through 2003 (Alex Sanchez tossed me his hat after the last game of the season. That game was actually a ton of fun to be at.) and got rewarded for it in 2005 and 2006 with the All Star Game and the League Championship, respectively. Then I went to school and got my heart broken by both a girl *and* our trade of Verlander. By 2016, I'd completely lost touch with baseball overall. I vaguely knew that the Tigers weren't good the last few years, but that was about it til just lately. Recently found Baseball Doesn't Exist, Jomboy, etc, and they all have really reignited my love of the game. Then I did some catching up on the Tigers, watched this and as a fan, my God I wish I hadn't. While it wasn't really the point of your video, it functioned as a bit of a recap for me and also made me wonder if I don't just pick self-destructive love interests. Good watch.
Michigan native here. Thank you for your work on this vid.
As a Mets fan, I know this feeling Tigers fans. Maybe a change in ownership, and a new front office could do wonders.
I forgot about how f u c k I n g outside that Hernandez pitch was. Crazy
This was a baller video man, keep it up and I’ll keep watching! Always wish I had the capability to make videos like this so really great to see them being made. Good stuff!
Thanks dude! You can definitely get into making these kind of videos if you wanted as well. Plenty of helpful tutorials on this site
As a Pirates fan I never want to hear David Littlefield's name again. I'm sorry he had a role in ruining the Tigers as well.
i think a huge thing you might have overshadowed is Miguel Cabrara from 2017-present he's been clearly injured and he's been aging yet avila did nothing to help fix the first base position. instead we were stuck with middle infielders or backup catchers who have had little time at first base in their careers until they finally called up tork (who until the beginning of the 2022 season they were committed to having him be a career third baseman)
I love miggy and so does all of Detroit but we've all seen the problem there and nothing had been done to fix or at least address it
Well truth be told, doing something about Miggy after 2017 was pretty meaningless until last year really. The team was not close to competitive during that stretch. This year was the first one there was cause for concern with him being on the roster. It ended up not mattering after mid-May though... Hope he finishes strong and retires "healthy" and with an oppo knock
@@Beyond_TheScore 2017 besides miggy (-0.9 war) you have C John hicks (0.4 war) C alex Avila (2.1 war) 1B efren Navarro (0.2 war) and UTL Andrew romaine (-1.0 war) starting at first
2018 you got C John hicks (0.0 war) OF Jim adduci (-0.3 war) UTL niko good rum (1.0 war) 1B miggy (0.2 war) INF Ronny Rodriguez (-1.6 war) DH victor Martinez (-1.3 war) and C jared saltalamaccia starting at first base
2019 was by far worse, 1B/OF Brandon Dixon (-0.5 war) C John hicks (-0.4 war) 1B miggy (0.0 war) 3B jeimer candelario (0.2 war) UTL niko goodrum (1.4 war) INF Ronny Rodriguez (-0.6 war) SS jordy Mercer (0.5 war) 2B Gordon Beckham (-1.2 war) INF Harold Castro (-1.0 war) and OF Dustin Peterson (-0.6 war)
2020 you had 3B jeimer candelario (2.0 war) 1B cj cron (0.3 war) 1B/OF Brandon Dixon (-0.1 war) INF Harold Castro (0.3 war) SS jordy Mercer (-0.1 war) and UTL Andrew romine (-0.2 war)
2021 you had 2B Jonathan schoop (2.0 war) 1B miggy (-0.5 war) INF Harold Castro (0.0 war) 1B Renato Nunez (-0.2 war) UTL niko goodrum (0.0 war) and C Eric haase (1.9 war)
And finally 2022 we get 1B spencer torkelson (-1.3 war) INF Harold Castro (0.1 war) 3B/LF kody Clemens (-0.2 war) and 2B Jonathan schoop (0.1 war)
That’s all the starting 1B the tigers have had according to baseball reference since 2017.
The main point at this to what you were saying is yes they weren’t going to be competitive but Avila ignored miggys problems and didn’t get a replacement in tork until 2020. There was not a single prospect in the tigers farm until tork was drafted that was capable of playing 1B on a major league level and part of a rebuild is not to wait 4 years to get the solution at 1B. By year 4 of a rebuild you should already have pieces starting to come up and to not have a single 1B prospect in the system is negligence. And who knows if tork finally develops next year. I sure hope he does but even during a most rebuilds your not throwing people at 1B with negative war
Can't believe this video didn't get to my algorithm until now, Al was literally baseball's matt millen
Video essays on Detroit tigers? Damn I wish I found this channel earlier
I plan on doing a lot more Tigers content!
The Zimmerman deal needed to be hit a bit harder. His slippage had already begun before coming to Detroit. He went 25-41 over a five-year, $25 million deal. Otherwise, excellent, eye-opening stuff.
Wait a damn minute here... 28 subscribers for a quality video like this!? 🤯
Ikr it’s a tragedy
You're too kind!
Agreed on a vast majority of this, but I would like to make some caveats;
1) Riley Greene is definitely getting there. And his plate appearances markedly improved over the course of the season, and his defense is OUTSTANDING in center field. If his eye continues to improve along with his on-base%, etc, and he bats like he had in August/September and continues playing centerfield as he had last year, he will be one of the finest centerfielders
2) Torkelson has played first base better than I've ever seen the position played, and did exhibit his power toward the end of the season, but jesus his Ks are a glaring issue and one that I can't say showed much sign of improvement, but wouldn't be critical IF he started batting his best CONSISTENTLY, with something like a .250 average and a ton of Ks, but something like 20 HR and playing as well as he had last year at first. That is realistic and really should be expected from him. If the Tigers could just get that from him, boy, that's a big piece.
3) Badoo's baserunning is awesome. God, if he could just make contact.
4) Baez, would've had a much better season if he could lay off the breaking balls down and away. Just those. I can't believe how many times he has swung at balls I could see a red dot in the center of and were a foot off of the plate BEFORE breaking - I saw him swing at wild pitches that passed the catcher at least thrice.... I also saw two balls hit after bouncing... one for a hit, actually. I still like him though.
In fact, the season I think will have given a lot of experience to a lot of players which will serve the team this year as they are somewhat deeper and the major league experience will season them well.... And all of the Tommy J returns will hopefully result in bionic-man type future resilience (there have even been a couple of examples of improved speed for pitchers coming back from the surgery).
Al Avila was a blight, and his departure marked the beginning of the light in last year's season. The Fullmer trade was so f\_/cking stupid.
AJ Hinch is legit, IMO, and I think they _DO_ have the talent - if they can hold on to the young players and cultivate them such that they realize their potential and make coy, shrewd, intelligent decisions regarding trades going forward.
I think, again, in AUG/SEP, they were fun to watch again - and appeared to have fun playing, which had been noticeably missing for at least a decade in the team. Even in their better seasons since ~2010, they didn't seem to be particularly _fun_ to watch or seem to be having _fun_. I haven't watched baseball much since then and actually got pretty deeply invested in the team this past year in what was frankly intellectual curiosity to some degree, cultural curiosity, and nostalgia maybe... I also have been exploring statistical analysis in sports and am a michigander, so.... there's hardly a better example to pique curiosity than this tiger's team - what with all of the injuries, all of the... everything... But, late in the season, they seemed to really start to click & clique... and then started to win... but, obviously way too late in the season - i hope the personnel change influenced the team morale and culture positively because it was almost hard to watch for the majority of the season - especially as a tigers fan...what am i saying, I was trying to be objective and wrap my head around the distinction between the condensed datapoints of the world of sports statistics and the quantifiable versus the far more data-dense yet far less easily translated into-the-numerical-world realm of the totality of a season in real-time.... it hurt me for a while, but things ARE looking up...assuming no one collapses the Jenga tower ... But Riley Greene is legit AF, fo sho.
They also have a host of good pitchers that are young... And I really like Tyler Alexander and Chaffin.
In fact, I could just summarize it as, if they could stop getting struck out all the time, that would be the sole difference that would turn their fate around.
I agree with a lot of what you said, this video was made mainly to point out what went wrong and not what went right. Tork started to crush the ball LATE in the year, Greene showed flashes (but k'ed at worse rate than Baez) and the pitching was very good. If the Tigers didnt have one of the worst offensive seasons of the live-ball era... maybe Al is still here. I think Hinch and Harris are great leaders for this team, but it seems that Harris does not believe in this roster and wants to change quite a bit before attacking the FA/trade market. 2023 could easily be another 2021 or it could just as easily be another 2022. My hopes aren't overly high anymore, but I'm not ruling out a step forward.
Bro I hope your channel blows up. Great videos and super entertaining!😄
I live in Detroit and really liked this thank you
Of course dude! I'll be making a lot more Detroit and Michigan content as time goes on!
I am a Mets fan since 67 when I was7 y/o I have been suffering along with cheap owners bad moves in Noland Ryan Tom Seaver on and on it does not matter if we have the richest owner we are cursed Degrom is not the Degrom of old let him go we need team chemistry
I think, if you compare Al Avila to Randy Smith, it becomes apparent that it's not so much Al Avila, but rather an organizational failure. Even if you look at Dombrowski's tenure, he spent way more than he should have for the success they had.
So you can tell you don't watch the Tigers. Al Avila was a problem, but not as big if a problem as Dombrowski. Those early 2010 teams that had all those guys were because Dombrowski SHREDDED our farm system. Dombrowski is the worst thing to ever happen to the Tigers. With Avila being gone, our problems will still be there.
We can't control the injuries to our pitching which is the real issue with the 2022 season. Baez had a shit year but that was an incredible signing. The Austin Meadows trade was AMAZING. We got him for a steal.
All those big name trades that Avila made had to happen. We had to blow up the team and start with young guys. Only way to do it. Riley Greene was a stud this season, Torkelson has some work to dk but if he's gonna pay off we need to let him have his woes in the MLB so he can get experience.
2022 was rough but was a good starting point for the future. A lot of young guys getting reps and showing great potential. Veterans going thru some stuff to straighten things out. Tigers will be good again soon. And as a parting note, again, Avila is not near as big of a problem as Dombrowski.
As a Tigers fan all I feel is pain
Yeahh...
@@Beyond_TheScore Seems like our pain has went on forever . Almost every year it gets worse if possible .
At least the Wings are good again lol
Rebuilding a team takes time. You know, you can't just go out there and spent hundreds of millions of dollars and win a world series or make the playoffs that way. You have to draft well, your minor league system has to be strong. The tigers need to take a cue from the Houston Astros about how to build a team and how to draft and develop players. When most of your roster is players you've developed, as with the Astros that's something you love to see, and that's exactly what I wanna see with the tigers.
With that many starting pitchers going to the IL in 2022... that screams that there is something wrong, either with the pitching coaches, the medical staffers, or both. Ridiculous. The Tigers are hard to watch and I'm not even from Detroit 🤨
Scott Harris though he's actually making strides to improve the team, and he's tearing down everything Avila "built"
Only the pirates can ruin 2 organizations😂
Fr though, not a great track record
11:36 can you really trust a man who thought those glasses were a good choice?
great video you mad underrated my boy
Thanks dude! The support means everything!
The over the top sound effects that keep getting crazier whenever Avila is on screen is hilarious man lol
Tigers will be fine in 2023, everyone put down the glue bottle
It is hard to be worse than they were last year, still have some glaring holes on the team as of now. That being said, I am a Harris fan
Al Avila also wanted way too much for Matt Boyd, refusing to budge on what he wanted for him, even after Boyd declined after the 2019 trade deadline. The Tigers ended up releasing Boyd after the 2021 season, getting nothing for him.
7months later and now we have 9 pitchers on the IL….
That was a really good video all around
Thanks man!
nice video, can't wait to see what you do next!
Me neither dude lol
as a tigers fan im glad to see he is gone
The jump scare music killed me lol
Hard to imagine something spookier imho
Poor Detroit
Yeahhh...
Alittle bit more than something to do with the Tigers failures
Nice Work! I'd like to hear why the A's suck
11:58 made me crack up… The IL Boys lookin like they ‘bout to drop a mediocre mixtape
On a second look, yeah it definitely feels that way lol
Umm the pirates are a lot worse.. they’ll eventually trade away Bryan Reynolds, O’Neil Cruz and Hayes for nothing like they always do..
Amazing video
Thank you for watching! Your support means I can keep making this type of content!
Great video as always!!!!
Thank you! You've always been my number 1 fan
Yeah Al Avila was terrible but for me it was the death of Mr. I that really started decline. If Mr. I was still alive there is no way Avila would have lasted as long as he did! I didn't no anything about Littlefield, interesting...
Mr. I was fantastic for Detroit Sports, especially in his last few years. Still wish the Tigers could've got him a championship before his passing. RIP
What a good video sir…keep it up
Thanks man! I plan on it!
thx u for good video am very sad
Fire Al there's no excuse for their horrible failure.
All of the signings Al Avila made as GM were for players who had no strong track record or were to one year deals
Great job, you will get more subs!
Thank you and this video has lead to almost 170 new subs!
Al Avila has to be the worst GM in history.
The tigers became hard to watch .Once they extended the Ausmus contract it was downhill .
2 Words
Chris Ilitch
Quality content
Thanks man, appreciate the view!
Great Video but can't help but notice how awful the call is @ 0:56 that pitch is nowhere near being a strike lol
I had to slip that call in there lol
@@Beyond_TheScore That was the infamous Eric Gregg, fuck the strike zone when the Braves were at bat strike.
I met Chris on a subway in NY subway
Illitch? or Kris Benson?
@@Beyond_TheScore Benson sorry
I am a Tiger fan. Al still the worst GM in MLB History.
p̾r̾o̾m̾o̾s̾m̾
I am a huge Pittsburgh pirates Fan David Littlefield is one of the big reasons Why this franchise is such a bad one over the years he just made so many bad trades Take this one he traded a Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton For Jose Hernandez and Bobby hill There was actually a third player in the deal but he didn’t even make the major league so I’m not even gonna bother to look him But the main problem is He just never had a direction for the team