While I appreciate others views I believe the very purpose of the moor has been a little missed here. I am a member of the freeman who have been custodians of this land for more than 800 years with the main purpose of the freemen in modern times being to preserve green spaces in the city for people, wildlife and livestock. We are particular in the preservation of the moor and had the organisation not been, there would likely be brutalist concrete structures in place where today we have a beautiful open space in the centre of our city which certainly from a selfish point of view was very welcome during the covid lockdowns and gave relief to many without green spaces of their own. It is my hope that this work will continue and the moor will still be there for generations to enjoy for the next 800 years.
@@davenufc55 I just wanted to pop back here and clear this up, while yes being a freeman is hereditary, I can assure you there is literally no wealth involved. The freemen of Newcastle is a charity devoted to local community in Newcastle and preservation of Newcastle’s green spaces. Centuries ago there were privileges associated with the freemen however, it was still rooted in tradespeople, e.g ropemakes, tanners and shipwrights etc. it was even possible to become a freeman through an apprenticeship in these trades. To this day when a freeman joins they swear and sign an oath to defend the city and whilst we may not come under attack from the Scots any time soon we do defend the green spaces in the city from being lost.
@@davenufc55 Newcastle is a bloated city. It could EASILY be 4 times smaller and have the same population, as it was a century ago before everyone started wanting to drive their car everywhere.
No!!!!! The town moor is sacred as it is....a huge, none commercialised green space that belongs to us all. It is a massive part of local history and pride. Leave it alone! It is precisely because there is nothing on it that makes it beautiful and invaluable. Couldn't agree less! 🧡
@Anonymous One the Freeman can not develop or change it without council approval. All the Freeman status means now is an honourarly title and the right to graze cattle! 😁
Every single word u said is true ,it makes me so angry they want to take our history away there doing that already ,we have nothing left our history is being deleted
I often think that uses on the moor should be restricted to minimal use. Allotments sounds okay. Anything permanent that is proposed should be thrown right out though. Many cities would love to have this in their backyard, and to throw it away would be a shame. As for a park, well we have Jesmond dene which is whole day out in itself not to far away from the moor. To claim that this “monoculture of grass” provides little benefit to the environment would be unfair too. I bet that the moors are some of the most fertile land around due to years and years of grazing cows trampling the ground and leaving their feces everywhere. This sequesters carbon as part of a natural cycle and provides life for insects which go on to feed birds. It is a shame to consider this a waste of space. It’s a very special and unique part of Newcastle that can make you show different emotions depending on the season.
I think you got this one wrong. The town moor is a treasure that many cities wish they had. Once you build, you can never go back. Yes, a few trees would be nice but once somebody adds then the ‘but also let’s do…..’ takes over and what do you get - a parking lot. If you want to build and redevelop I am sure there are plenty of places to start. Remember, that lovely new development, could in thirty years be the eyesore they they pulled down. Happened before. Just saying…
I agree with you but once you start gentrification where do you stop. History has shown us that trees lead to paths lead benches lead to follies lead to structures to artificial ponds etc. just look at what had been planned. Here in North America we would not tolerate such a waste of space and would insist we ‘improve’ it . Parks and fields - names applied to sports stadiums. Before they put up stands, what was St James Park?
This is a very interesting analysis of the history of the Town Moor Jordan, but I think many of us love having the Moor just as it is, rather than having any further development or regarding it as a waste of space.
@@Stephen.Dixon01 I have no idea what you have in mind by a "landscaped monstrosity". I was thinking of something like Central Park in New York or Hyde Park in London or even Saltwell Park in Gateshead. All beautiful places in urban areas people visit in their thousands.
It's not unspoilt, literally. The flipping massive Cow Hill on it was landscaped using half a million tons of spoil from when they built the Central Motorway. That's where they were going to build the artificial ski slope before they ran out of money in the 60s.
I agree with most of the comments that this part of Newcastle should remain as it is. Evolution doesn't mean that we have to turn every acre to a building or any concrete construction.
@@jean2740 I think they are "doomed" to repeat the same mistake they did during the 1960s and 1970s if they finally decide to move forward with this decision. And who is going to fund all these constructions? The Chinese? Or they will do what they did with one of the country's most historical architectural landmarks and I am referring to the Newcastle's University Richardson Road students' flats... And guess what they did - They brought pre-fabricated building blocks from China. And then we talk about pollution and climate change.
What "good developments" should actually be allowed on the Moor? The last development completely severed the city, with the Central Motorway destroying hundreds of buildings, cutting the Moor and City Centre in half. If plans had gone ahead, we would have had even more car-only spaces - no amount of decorative trees and artificial lakes would make up for the damage to the local environment and air quality of the city. Seeing it as wasted space seems a bit off, considering the way Newcastle grew. Is this really more bare and wasteful than the suburbia landscape that makes up most of Newcastle, some of which begins right at the edge of the city centre? While inquiring on potential uses for the site can be good, this has currently a far more inventive and appropriate use than in other places - not all urban green spaces need to be "Olmstedian" parks, and not all "undeveloped" spaces need to be developed. It's a serene, breathtaking space with already 4 parks, 1 large hospital, 1 large university, 1 neighborhood, several allotments, 1 business park in the remnants of the old Fenham Barracks (🤢) and 1 golf club (🤮) in it. Development around it, and with it, seems more beneficial than thinking of the site as waiting to be filled, or as a blank slate.
Yes my views, must be LEFT ALONE !!! At all costs its been there for ever a true newcastle person and there family members before them would be utterly horrified at the thought of taking our last bit of buety away from Newcastle, we got NOTHING LEFT , it's almost like losing our blue print our identity
Interesting perspective Jordan that has drawn out the strength of feeling in the comments. This seems undiminished since Sir John Hall proposed rebuilding St James Park on the Leazes Park site and creating a new public park on the present day St James Park site. I agree with you that planting more trees on the Moor would enhance the aesthetic appearance and utility. There is however an often overlooked value in open space. It is such a rare thing to have space in a city. We are lucky to have space at the Coasts of North and South Tyneside but the Moor gives us space very close to the city centre and it is right for that space to be protected and preserved for posterity. Thank you for getting us to think about the value that the Moor offers us all ensuring we do not take it for granted.
That wouldn't go down at all well with people who live right opposite the town Moor ,NO WAY even to suggest such a thing is absolutely disturbing just to think about it it must NEVER !! Happen ,we have very little left in Newcastle it's all been destroyed its our history why are we not allowed our history anymore??
It may be a waste of space to you, but not to most of us who come from this area. If anything, I would like to see woodlands created, with a mixture of native trees planted. Not only would this help to improve air quality, it would provide habitat for wildlife, such as birds, foxes, and maybe even deer. Maybe add a few cycle trails or bridle paths, so people would be encouraged to use the moor for leisure pursuits. But the last thing we want, is any building work on the moor, Newcastle is already over developed, with many empty buildings that could be repurposed.
Well I hope they never ever build on it ,we have very little green belt land left , our city is already destroyed with houses to buy ,not council houses , or more of these travel lodges for other people not for us so ,it must stay a green belt
Leave the Town Moor as it is. Mined, Drained it may have been. its a fantastic open space, open being the operative word. I loved walking back to North Kenton across it. Your in no way hemmed in. Give them the chance and the University would build all over it I bet.
When I was a teenager I used to walk to and from work most days across the Town Moor from West Jesmond to Slatyford' Almost as quick as using the buses, and a lot cheaper! Only feasible in the good weather, of course :)
I don’t get the appeal to fill the Moore with buildings and recreational activities. Where is the demand? It would undoubtedly be filled with a few large buildings like stadiums or apartments which can and have been built elsewhere. In this day and age when there is an urge to fill a blank space for the simple fact that it’s blank, we must resist unless there is an absolute compelling reason. And as St James’s found out when they tried to build a new stadium, that reason has an extremely high bench mark.
Jordan, sixty years ago highly qualified, "forward thinking" go-getters like yourself, in cahoots with corrupt politicians, embarked on the architectural desecration of a fine city. One of the criminals involved spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure as a consequence. And here's you wishing to continue the process. "Progress" at any cost, eh?
The Newcastle owners have recently said that they're staying at St James' Park and will look at how it can be expanded. If that hand't happened though, I wouldn't want the town moor to be the location for a new stadium - maybe look for somewhere either by the river up in the Kingston Park area.
I think if they moved the ground, it would likely be where the ministry is on Benton Park Road. Its close to two metro stations and its big enough to accommodate the sports city they want. HMRC are moving from there to the city centre.
In the March 2023 budget, the government proposed Docklands style developments across the country - perhaps a part of the Town Moor might be a candidate! My memories of the Town Moor. when I was at school, were in the winter when snow prevented us from using the rugby pitches. Instead, we had cross-country runs on the area of the Moor east of Moorside North in Fenham. It was great running in the snow, until your foot went through the white stuff and into a hidden fresh cowpat, which resulted in a very dirty leg! Happy days!!
The Freemen are v. poor land managers. Most of the land is contaminated from historic coal smoke fallout and the heavy metals circulate in the 'upper soil profile'. Any future use of the moor must exclude food production and visitor contact with the soil. The young cattle that graze the moor in the summer are not cows. In my memory they never have been cows. However Newcastle lacks practical forestry skills and would be incapable of creating or maintaining any kind of amenity forest - which is the obvious present day potential best use. I can remember when the grass was rougher than it is now, and it supported more wildlife, but it has been drained and 'improved' the last ten, fifteen years. It's worse off that way. Bye, bye skylark, rush moths, frogs, swallow +. One summer there was a total washout of the Hoppings. It rained and rained for days and the ground turned into swamp. It coincided with a time when I was buying metal detectorist finds from Ebay and picking through and selling on the best stuff. I was left with a lot of detector found rubbish, which I collected and eventually spread over the Hoppings field, into the great marshes that had been made by the rain. 3, perhaps 4kgs of bronze and cupronickel stuff. Broken buckles from the Civil War era, QEII silver coins, musket balls, three trips altogether. The stuff will be well incorporated by now. So, if you see someone detecting on that part of the moor, please go and ask them what they've found. (I guess it's just another form of heavy metal pollution) ...
the Moor is boring lacking features so lets have some real changes instead of living in the past. There is enough space to have a new super stadium and still allow the dogs to walk and shit till their hearts desire, after all not many people use the place compared to its size.
I couldn't agree more, The Town Moor is a complete waste of space. My preferred option for development would be that it is landscaped into parkland with a lake. I doubt it will ever happen though, most people want it left exactly the way it is even though it is barren and largely useless.
@@seansmith445 Protected land should remain that way. We have little enough left in urban environments. Once the 'landscaping' starts the development soon follows. Walking across the moor from Jesmond to Fenham, with cows grazing and the freedom to have uncultivated land to roam so close to a major city centre is almost unique. Long may it stay that way. Any council that proposed otherwise would be committing electoral suicide. It isn't 'ours' to develop. It is free space, and a superb environment refuge for us to protect for all future generations. Don't confuse 'usefulness' with freedom!
@@-Deena. I take your point but personally I'd rather walk through a park with trees and plants and lakes than a large barren field with nothing in it but grazing cows, and remember, the moor is artificial. Originally it was woodland.
While I appreciate others views I believe the very purpose of the moor has been a little missed here. I am a member of the freeman who have been custodians of this land for more than 800 years with the main purpose of the freemen in modern times being to preserve green spaces in the city for people, wildlife and livestock. We are particular in the preservation of the moor and had the organisation not been, there would likely be brutalist concrete structures in place where today we have a beautiful open space in the centre of our city which certainly from a selfish point of view was very welcome during the covid lockdowns and gave relief to many without green spaces of their own. It is my hope that this work will continue and the moor will still be there for generations to enjoy for the next 800 years.
But newcastle needs to grow as a city with such limited space it seems such a waste
how does one become a freeman?
@@georgeedwardscott7159 be born into a very rich super secret family
@@davenufc55 I just wanted to pop back here and clear this up, while yes being a freeman is hereditary, I can assure you there is literally no wealth involved. The freemen of Newcastle is a charity devoted to local community in Newcastle and preservation of Newcastle’s green spaces. Centuries ago there were privileges associated with the freemen however, it was still rooted in tradespeople, e.g ropemakes, tanners and shipwrights etc. it was even possible to become a freeman through an apprenticeship in these trades. To this day when a freeman joins they swear and sign an oath to defend the city and whilst we may not come under attack from the Scots any time soon we do defend the green spaces in the city from being lost.
@@davenufc55 Newcastle is a bloated city. It could EASILY be 4 times smaller and have the same population, as it was a century ago before everyone started wanting to drive their car everywhere.
Heresy!! Leave the town moor as it is, it's a unique part of the city. Turning it into play / recreation areas sounds horrific.
True yes
No!!!!! The town moor is sacred as it is....a huge, none commercialised green space that belongs to us all. It is a massive part of local history and pride. Leave it alone! It is precisely because there is nothing on it that makes it beautiful and invaluable. Couldn't agree less! 🧡
@Anonymous One the Freeman can not develop or change it without council approval. All the Freeman status means now is an honourarly title and the right to graze cattle! 😁
Every single word u said is true ,it makes me so angry they want to take our history away there doing that already ,we have nothing left our history is being deleted
I often think that uses on the moor should be restricted to minimal use. Allotments sounds okay. Anything permanent that is proposed should be thrown right out though.
Many cities would love to have this in their backyard, and to throw it away would be a shame.
As for a park, well we have Jesmond dene which is whole day out in itself not to far away from the moor.
To claim that this “monoculture of grass” provides little benefit to the environment would be unfair too. I bet that the moors are some of the most fertile land around due to years and years of grazing cows trampling the ground and leaving their feces everywhere. This sequesters carbon as part of a natural cycle and provides life for insects which go on to feed birds.
It is a shame to consider this a waste of space. It’s a very special and unique part of Newcastle that can make you show different emotions depending on the season.
I appreciate the comment Jennifer, didn’t consider the impact of the sequestered carbon in the grounds
Yes your so right
Very true 👍
Yes true
Yes
I think you got this one wrong. The town moor is a treasure that many cities wish they had. Once you build, you can never go back. Yes, a few trees would be nice but once somebody adds then the ‘but also let’s do…..’ takes over and what do you get - a parking lot. If you want to build and redevelop I am sure there are plenty of places to start. Remember, that lovely new development, could in thirty years be the eyesore they they pulled down. Happened before. Just saying…
I appreciate the response Martyn, definitely a fine balance. I’m more proposing for more trees and places for people to sit
I agree with you but once you start gentrification where do you stop. History has shown us that trees lead to paths lead benches lead to follies lead to structures to artificial ponds etc. just look at what had been planned. Here in North America we would not tolerate such a waste of space and would insist we ‘improve’ it . Parks and fields - names applied to sports stadiums. Before they put up stands, what was St James Park?
This is a very interesting analysis of the history of the Town Moor Jordan, but I think many of us love having the Moor just as it is, rather than having any further development or regarding it as a waste of space.
The town moor, exhibition park and nuns are fine the way they are and offer so much to the local residents
YES !!!they want leave things one we got nothing left it's our history .makes me so MAD
Could at least plant a couple of thousand of trees, make the place a bit less barren.
Town Moor should always stay as it is now. Unspoilt
"Unspoilt" The same thing could have been said 200 years ago when they artificially turned it from natural woodland to a large open field.
@@seansmith445 well certainly don't need another flipping modern landscaped monstrosity
@@Stephen.Dixon01 I have no idea what you have in mind by a "landscaped monstrosity". I was thinking of something like Central Park in New York or Hyde Park in London or even Saltwell Park in Gateshead. All beautiful places in urban areas people visit in their thousands.
@@seansmith445 no, just no! That's what I mean. If people can't appreciate it as it is its their loss
It's not unspoilt, literally. The flipping massive Cow Hill on it was landscaped using half a million tons of spoil from when they built the Central Motorway. That's where they were going to build the artificial ski slope before they ran out of money in the 60s.
I agree with most of the comments that this part of Newcastle should remain as it is. Evolution doesn't mean that we have to turn every acre to a building or any concrete construction.
Yes all they want to do is build build build
And it's not for us either
@@jean2740 I think they are "doomed" to repeat the same mistake they did during the 1960s and 1970s if they finally decide to move forward with this decision. And who is going to fund all these constructions? The Chinese? Or they will do what they did with one of the country's most historical architectural landmarks and I am referring to the Newcastle's University Richardson Road students' flats... And guess what they did - They brought pre-fabricated building blocks from China. And then we talk about pollution and climate change.
@@billpandos7962 VERY VERY TRUE 👍
What "good developments" should actually be allowed on the Moor? The last development completely severed the city, with the Central Motorway destroying hundreds of buildings, cutting the Moor and City Centre in half. If plans had gone ahead, we would have had even more car-only spaces - no amount of decorative trees and artificial lakes would make up for the damage to the local environment and air quality of the city.
Seeing it as wasted space seems a bit off, considering the way Newcastle grew. Is this really more bare and wasteful than the suburbia landscape that makes up most of Newcastle, some of which begins right at the edge of the city centre? While inquiring on potential uses for the site can be good, this has currently a far more inventive and appropriate use than in other places - not all urban green spaces need to be "Olmstedian" parks, and not all "undeveloped" spaces need to be developed.
It's a serene, breathtaking space with already 4 parks, 1 large hospital, 1 large university, 1 neighborhood, several allotments, 1 business park in the remnants of the old Fenham Barracks (🤢) and 1 golf club (🤮) in it. Development around it, and with it, seems more beneficial than thinking of the site as waiting to be filled, or as a blank slate.
Yes my views, must be LEFT ALONE !!! At all costs its been there for ever a true newcastle person and there family members before them would be utterly horrified at the thought of taking our last bit of buety away from Newcastle, we got NOTHING LEFT , it's almost like losing our blue print our identity
85% of the northeast would want the town moor left as it is
Yes yes 🙌 true
Definitely needs at least some trees - oaks, poplars etc. The Balsam Poplar smells really beautiful.
Interesting perspective Jordan that has drawn out the strength of feeling in the comments. This seems undiminished since Sir John Hall proposed rebuilding St James Park on the Leazes Park site and creating a new public park on the present day St James Park site. I agree with you that planting more trees on the Moor would enhance the aesthetic appearance and utility. There is however an often overlooked value in open space. It is such a rare thing to have space in a city. We are lucky to have space at the Coasts of North and South Tyneside but the Moor gives us space very close to the city centre and it is right for that space to be protected and preserved for posterity. Thank you for getting us to think about the value that the Moor offers us all ensuring we do not take it for granted.
That wouldn't go down at all well with people who live right opposite the town Moor ,NO WAY even to suggest such a thing is absolutely disturbing just to think about it it must NEVER !! Happen ,we have very little left in Newcastle it's all been destroyed its our history why are we not allowed our history anymore??
SIR John Hall all to do with more money not the real people of Newcastle it angers me leave everything g alone.
It may be a waste of space to you, but not to most of us who come from this area.
If anything, I would like to see woodlands created, with a mixture of native trees planted.
Not only would this help to improve air quality, it would provide habitat for wildlife, such as birds, foxes, and maybe even deer.
Maybe add a few cycle trails or bridle paths, so people would be encouraged to use the moor for leisure pursuits.
But the last thing we want, is any building work on the moor, Newcastle is already over developed, with many empty buildings that could be repurposed.
Well I hope they never ever build on it ,we have very little green belt land left , our city is already destroyed with houses to buy ,not council houses , or more of these travel lodges for other people not for us so ,it must stay a green belt
There’s plenty ov concrete jungle we don’t need more
Leave the Town Moor as it is. Mined, Drained it may have been. its a fantastic open space, open being the operative word. I loved walking back to North Kenton across it. Your in no way hemmed in. Give them the chance and the University would build all over it I bet.
We should return to the victorian era, less buildings, actually nice buildings, and easy to afford high quality made in the uk products.
When I was a teenager I used to walk to and from work most days across the Town Moor from West Jesmond to Slatyford'
Almost as quick as using the buses, and a lot cheaper! Only feasible in the good weather, of course :)
I don’t get the appeal to fill the Moore with buildings and recreational activities. Where is the demand? It would undoubtedly be filled with a few large buildings like stadiums or apartments which can and have been built elsewhere. In this day and age when there is an urge to fill a blank space for the simple fact that it’s blank, we must resist unless there is an absolute compelling reason. And as St James’s found out when they tried to build a new stadium, that reason has an extremely high bench mark.
I totally agree,it should have been landscaped decades ago with a fishing lake and wooded areas.
Something that hopefully can be improved with some tree planting in the meantime
Golf? I thought they wanted to improve it, not make it even more of a waste of space!
Hardly a waste of space, what would you know anyhow?
I used to run around it to build my fitness before joining the paras back in 1980
Extremely interesting.
I love this area.
youre negativity towards the town moor is frankly alittle off.
Don’t throw a wobbler and close this channel down too
The town moor belongs to the people of newcastle if you live in newcastle you can graze a cow for free lol. Leave it alone its unique and its ours
Jordan, sixty years ago highly qualified, "forward thinking" go-getters like yourself, in cahoots with corrupt politicians, embarked on the architectural desecration of a fine city. One of the criminals involved spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure as a consequence. And here's you wishing to continue the process. "Progress" at any cost, eh?
Do you think it makes sense for the football club to use it for a new stadium given st James limited room for expansion?
The Newcastle owners have recently said that they're staying at St James' Park and will look at how it can be expanded. If that hand't happened though, I wouldn't want the town moor to be the location for a new stadium - maybe look for somewhere either by the river up in the Kingston Park area.
I think if they moved the ground, it would likely be where the ministry is on Benton Park Road. Its close to two metro stations and its big enough to accommodate the sports city they want. HMRC are moving from there to the city centre.
In the March 2023 budget, the government proposed Docklands style developments across the country - perhaps a part of the Town Moor might be a candidate!
My memories of the Town Moor. when I was at school, were in the winter when snow prevented us from using the rugby pitches. Instead, we had cross-country runs on the area of the Moor east of Moorside North in Fenham. It was great running in the snow, until your foot went through the white stuff and into a hidden fresh cowpat, which resulted in a very dirty leg! Happy days!!
Stay as it is lol .
The Freemen are v. poor land managers. Most of the land is contaminated from historic coal smoke fallout and the heavy metals circulate in the 'upper soil profile'. Any future use of the moor must exclude food production and visitor contact with the soil. The young cattle that graze the moor in the summer are not cows. In my memory they never have been cows. However Newcastle lacks practical forestry skills and would be incapable of creating or maintaining any kind of amenity forest - which is the obvious present day potential best use. I can remember when the grass was rougher than it is now, and it supported more wildlife, but it has been drained and 'improved' the last ten, fifteen years. It's worse off that way. Bye, bye skylark, rush moths, frogs, swallow +.
One summer there was a total washout of the Hoppings. It rained and rained for days and the ground turned into swamp. It coincided with a time when I was buying metal detectorist finds from Ebay and picking through and selling on the best stuff. I was left with a lot of detector found rubbish, which I collected and eventually spread over the Hoppings field, into the great marshes that had been made by the rain. 3, perhaps 4kgs of bronze and cupronickel stuff. Broken buckles from the Civil War era, QEII silver coins, musket balls, three trips altogether. The stuff will be well incorporated by now. So, if you see someone detecting on that part of the moor, please go and ask them what they've found. (I guess it's just another form of heavy metal pollution) ...
If cows aren’t grazing in the moor during summer then what are they?
@@jennijenjenjen Young cattle.
@@davidaspinall496 I see a lot of young cattle but I would see plenty of larger cows that I would assume to be the parents?
@@jennijenjenjen No, they're all youngsters. Have been for as long as I can remember - say thirty years ...
@@davidaspinall496 considering just two days ago a Cow was calving on Leazes Moor, your statements are highly suspect.
the Moor is boring lacking features so lets have some real changes instead of living in the past. There is enough space to have a new super stadium and still allow the dogs to walk and shit till their hearts desire, after all not many people use the place compared to its size.
What a lowly soul.
no need to be snotty sonny@@piercebrosnan9528
I couldn't agree more, The Town Moor is a complete waste of space. My preferred option for development would be that it is landscaped into parkland with a lake. I doubt it will ever happen though, most people want it left exactly the way it is even though it is barren and largely useless.
'Landscaped' in reference to the moor makes me violently ill! No...no...no...no
@@-Deena. Why, what use is it to anyone as it is? Surely it would be more attractive and have more use as parkland than a vast barren waste of space..
@@seansmith445 Protected land should remain that way. We have little enough left in urban environments. Once the 'landscaping' starts the development soon follows.
Walking across the moor from Jesmond to Fenham, with cows grazing and the freedom to have uncultivated land to roam so close to a major city centre is almost unique. Long may it stay that way. Any council that proposed otherwise would be committing electoral suicide. It isn't 'ours' to develop. It is free space, and a superb environment refuge for us to protect for all future generations. Don't confuse 'usefulness' with freedom!
There's parkland at Leazes with a lake
@@-Deena. I take your point but personally I'd rather walk through a park with trees and plants and lakes than a large barren field with nothing in it but grazing cows, and remember, the moor is artificial. Originally it was woodland.