ive hated him since i first saw his shorts. i could immediately tell what kind of person he is just by the way he speaks. narcissist with aspergers probably.
I am saying the same shit to my friend for a good time too. This guy is 100% artificial. The next one is that guy The Prime Time. He is the same as PirateSoftware, a plant, a fake.
@@Ashgrey0 There is a streamer only for-content guild, which was created 2 months ago (more or less) in World of Warcraft. Thor was one of the streamers, who joined this guild. Couple of weeks ago he got into drama with other streamers, who were playing with him. Original drama doesn't really matter, but it was covered by every 2nd streamer at this point. What matters is that it's hardcore, so 2 people lost their max level characters (which is at least hundred hours of real life work). Thor made mistakes like pretty much everyone else in the group, but he was the only one who presented himself like that "God hardcore gamer" before the fiasco and he was also acting pretentious and unapologhetic through the whole situation. Because of massive exposure, everyone started throwing in their 2 cents and as a result Pirate got exposed for being a fraud as far as his skills are concerned, but more importantly many clips started to surface, where Pirate was talking shit about noob streamers in the guild and just acting like an asshole. On top of this, he went full damage control and started double,triple,quadruple etc. down on the whole thing. To the point, where he claimed that he is making "a list" of all the streamers, who were hate-raiding him (loud word, for memeing about him acting like a roach) and threatened to start reporting them. He got kicked out of the guild, but because everything was already blown out of proportions the meme was born and people from other communities like Eve online, AoC started to jump in and exposing him for always being an a-hole. TLDR he was always a pretentious prick and a fraud (can't comment on his irl accomplishments, because I genuinely don't care, many people are really digging it up tho). Instead of addressing or apoligizing for valid criticism, Pirate pretends like he is right and is bunkering down in his echo-chamber of a stream.
@@Ashgrey0literally go search pirate software wow drama Then search pirate software faking gameplay. He worked for blizzard and he has 300 enchanting bro
He said that they are either idiots or don't understand game development (uninformed enough). If you ask me, it's a good thing we have counter arguments against stop killing games because for something to be refined you have to argue about it and reach the best possible solution to the problem. Even if this initiative passes there's no garranty that EU will do anything about it, only a small percentage. I guess piracy is the only way out if this if they don't do anything. Because "piracy is caused by a bad service". If the devs themselves allowed making private servers this wouldn't be an issue. We can always boycott these companies.
"We can always boycott... " That doesn't work, since "vote with your wallet" is a fallacy. You'd need a very orchestrated boycott movement for it to work, and that wouldn't happen very well because... Well, I don't exactly like the same games another person does. And vice versa. "Why/how would I boycott Capcom if I don't even play Resident Evil?" Now, if only we had actual, tangible regulations and legislation (made after a body of MEPs looked into the issue with specialists, industry experts and counter arguments after _an initiative_ was successfully sent to them)...? Now that would be better chances for the consumer to be heard, wouldn't it?
@@nairocamilo Vote with your wallet is as much a fallacy as boycotting. Which is to say that it would absolutely work, if everyone actually got on board. The problem is the slop enjoyers, and the big investment firms pushing agendas into everything. However, I think it's safe to say that the beast of "live-service" should never have been fed in the first place. And we wouldn't need legislation to defeat it now, if we'd just not nurtured it to begin with. Part of saying "vote with your wallet" is to change the mindset of the average gamer, moving forward. Because even if the current iteration of live service was to die off, the companies would simply try again, with a fresh coat of paint. And we don't want to use government legislation to fix everything. That's too much reliance on governmental bodies.
Ross's comment on that video, which was deleted by pirate software: "I'll just leave some points on this: -I'm afraid you're misunderstanding several parts of our initiative. We want as many games as possible to be left in some playable state upon shutdown, not just specifically targeted ones. The Crew was just a convenient example to take action on, it represents hundreds of games that have already been destroyed in a similar manner and hundreds more "at risk" of being destroyed. We're not looking at the advertising being the primary bad practice, but the preventable destruction of videogames themselves. -This isn't about killing live service games (quite the opposite!), it's primarily about mandating future live service games have an end of life plan from the design phase onward. For existing games, that gets much more complicated, I plan to have a video on that later. So live service games could continue operating in the future same as now, except when they shutdown, they would be handled similarly to Knockout City, Gran Turismo Sport, Scrolls, Ryzom, Astonia, etc. as opposed to leaving the customer with absolutely nothing. -A key component is how the game is sold and conveyed to the player. Goods are generally sold as one time purchases and you can keep them indefinitely. Services are generally sold with a clearly stated expiration date. Most "Live service" games do neither of these. They are often sold as a one-time purchase with no statement whatsoever about the duration, so customers can't make an informed decision, it's gambling how long the game lasts. Other industries would face legal charges for operating this way. This could likely be running afoul of EU law even without the ECI, that's being tested. -The EU has laws on EULAs that ban unfair or one-sided terms. MANY existing game EULAs likely violate those. Plus, you can put anything in a EULA. The idea here is to take removal of individual ownership of a game off the table entirely. -We're not making a distinction between preservation of multiplayer and single player and neither does the law. We fail to find reasons why a 4v4 arena game like Nosgoth should be destroyed permanently when it shuts down other than it being deliberately designed that way with no recourse for the customer. -As for the reasons why I think this initiative could pass, that's my cynicism bleeding though. I think what we're doing is pushing a good cause that would benefit millions of people through an imperfect system where petty factors of politicians could be a large part of what determines its success or not. Democracy can be a messy process and I was acknowledging that. I'm not championing these flawed factors, but rather saying I think our odds are decent. Finally, while your earlier comments towards me were far from civil, I don't wish you any ill will, nor do I encourage anyone to harass you. I and others still absolutely disagree with you on the necessity of saving games, but I wanted to be clear causing you trouble is not something I nor the campaign seeks at all. Personally, I think you made your stance clear, you're not going to change your mind, so people should stop bothering you about it."
Absolutely needs to be pinned. This absolutely kills any passion I had for Pirate Software, and I will no longer support Thor. It’s clear he’s boot licking the industry.
@@LinkieNecronLore Look, I can understand this lapse of judgement upon this whole discussion but "Thor is a bootlicker of the industry" is like, a very "I'm 14 years old" take.
I wouldn't go so far as to say industry plant, instead he (imo) is likely catering to game companies sponsoring him. Obviously he has been trying to cultivate an influencer personality. If said personality is pro big corpo mindset, they're more likely to sponsor in the future. Occam's razor type of arg here, I know, but I think the root of this comes from him being narcissistic and also associated/proxemic to big corpo
I wouldn't have a problem with Thor disagreeing with the initiative if he wasn't so mean-spirited and stubborn about it. He insults Ross on a personal level and refuses communication or discussion on the topic. I saw the portion of his stream reacting to his own initial video on it and he claims the only people going against him are people sending death threats, ignoring everyone who legitimately argues against his points. It's so egotistical which is a shame coming from a guy who has inspired me to get back on my own game development journey.
Props to Ross for handling the whole situation very maturely and releasing a video answering Thor's questions and then some without even bringing him up directly.
100% Ross turned the other cheek and kept moving forward respectfully even after Thor hurled uncalled for Insults at him even trying to go after ross' appearance for no reason especially when Thor himself looks like a goblin
@@GoreGutztheImpaler he called him greasy looking and that he looks like a used car salesman stuff like that during his livestream i dont have a time stamp if thats what you are asking for, trying to discredit someone using their appearance is disgusting and anyone that does it should be never be listened to
Paid private servers existed for years and will continue to exist. It's not a novel concept. The owners at least have to break even in order to maintain it. Or, sometimes offer more features than the official servers, such as better anti-cheats, better moderation, better content in general, etc. I only see this as a positive.
The Battlefield servers are the best examples of community servers that are better than the official ones and the servers selling VIP slots always had the best quality.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566Also the Old CoD games, try to play whitout fan servers and you might as well put you PC on the street whit a "pick me up" sing because you got super hacked.
@imnotusingmyrealname4566 not always I've been banned on more than one occasion because admins don't like weapons you are using and want to get 100 kills on a helicopter while banning stingers
Indeed, me running a server in my basement 10-15 years after release and with sale and support already stopped does affect the company in exactly 0 ways. Voobly kept Age of Empires 2 alive for several years and that contributed to Microsoft being able to re-release the game two times. So there's even an argument that it can be beneficial for the devs, free of cost maintained community for newer releases.
The best comment I've seen on this topic from @jwueller: Thor has been misrepresenting this massively. He clearly didn't actually understand the initiative or read the FAQ, he doesn't actually understand the EU process, and he argues entirely based on irrelevant US law. He obviously doesn't have a lot of experience as a developer if he thinks making a dedicated server available means re-architecting (and re-balancing?) the entire game. He's worked in QA the majority of the time, not engineering. So maybe he is just out of his depth here. He's basically making up straw men for things the initiative doesn't say, and then complains that the things he just made up don't make sense (duh). The initiative contains plenty of developers in support. So clearly this isn't some impossible problem as he pretends. Note how he also tried to deflect the conversation towards the initiative wanting to kill live service games, when the initiative is just about how its sold and ownership! Nothing is live service specific! A lot of people also dont seem to realize that online DRM is basically just a "live service" too that will kill almost every single modern game once the DRM servers inevitably shut down. His argument about hackers is super hypothetical and could already happen before, but how would you even make money off of it if everyone else can also host the servers, and you just killed the community? Why would anyone pay for that particular one? Its such a non-sequitur. He also has a huge conflict of interest since he's publishing a live service game himself. So you have to take everything he says with a big grain of salt here. He is not on the customer's team! I have been a full-stack developer for over 20 years, and everything the initiative is asking for is very reasonable, and I 100% support it. Also note that since laws are very rarely retroactive, this wouldn't actually apply to existing games, just future ones. Those games would be architected with the end-of-life plan in mind, which would make it very easy to adhere to. Yes, some change from the status quo will be required, but I think the initiative only requires the minimum amount of work that still fulfills the goal. Other software industries have to provide a lot more guarantees at end-of-life than games would. Not requiring any further support makes it basically free if the game is properly designed from the start. Not to mention that dedicated servers just used to be included in almost every game for decades. Any complex cloud architecture that currently exists is much more likely to be self-inflicted than required complexity. And even then, it would not be hard to publish your Kubernetes cluster config to your customers. You could actually run the dedicated server for most games on a toaster. The client actually has significantly higher compute workload due to graphics. There might be exceptions, but servers being complicated is not an excuse to violate the customer's fundamental, constitutional 'Right to Property'. Note that Thor also showed his true colors in the livestreams preceding his edited videos, where he explicitly said that he doesn't see a problem and that devs/publishers should be able to unilaterally take away your purchase. So he fundamentally disagrees with the objective, even if he pretends otherwise. In those streams, Thor also called Ross 'manipulative' and a 'greasy car salesman', despite Ross being nothing but nice. Ross even tried to reach out via comment on the VOD to clear up misconceptions, which Thor shut down. The comment was deleted at some point. My takeaway from this is that Thor is not acting in good faith and we shouldn't take him seriously if he isn't proposing any alternative solutions. The only thing he's proposed so far was to disclose that a game might randomly shut down on purchase. But it's easy to see that this doesn't actually solve the problem of games being destroyed. It just makes it more obvious that you're getting robbed later on. Don't take his word at face value. He doesn't have as much authority on the subject as he claims.
Very well put. Yeah to me it seemed liek he had his intentions and then tried to fumble together decoy arguments to support his covert intentions. So he even said he wants us to own nothing, great.
There's a subtle irony in referring to Ross as a 'Greasy car salesman' whilst simultaneously defending the argument that it's perfectly fine to request a customer to: "Buy this newer model Mustang [Game], I'm afraid we don't stock the parts [Server infrastructure] for that 20 year old Mustang [Game] anymore, and won't remotely entertain the idea of fixing it [making it run standalone/offline], despite having done so in the past, because it won't be profitable for us to do so. But we're ALSO going to make it so that you can't fix it yourself either [Run Offline / Local Hosting / Fan Servers] ... now, how about buying that new Mustang that's very similar to the old one..." Like if that isn't absolute peak projection. This is inherently exactly how a sleasy car salesman operates. Sell a product that is 'supported' Refuse to provide any warranty or support that can run out at the sellers discretion. Whoops you just bought an expensive brick, congratulations.
Thor's argument of "online games were only few people are playing, aren't worth preserving" is some of the stupidest shit i ever heard. Like realistically, how many people would you need to recreate the environment of an on online multiplayer game, 5-10 people? you really think someone couldn't simply go to a discord or reddit forum and find 9 other people to relive some nostalgic feelings of a game they used to play? and even more appalling, the idea that something like FFXIV or WoW has zero worth outside of interacting with other people is ridiculous. Are the single player quests not still there? is the world still explorable? Is there no worth in killing smaller enemies and hanging out with NPCs, while listening to the beautiful music? It's crazy that Thor calls himself "pirate software", cause he is saying some ridiculous anti-consumer stuff.
okay then try to play an MMO like... World of warcraft and do innis by yourself because you can't get a group. at that point you might as well play a single player game. "It's crazy that Thor calls himself "pirate software", cause he is saying some ridiculous anti-consumer stuff." I dunno his boycott of Sony, because of their anti consumer practices of forcing you to use an external account that is not available to all countries (I think 130 countries are barred from making a PSN acc) is pretty pro consumer. He is quite pro player but only if it actually makes sense for the devs. Server costs, maintenance and proper bug support is a lot of work and the reason why most private servers ask for donations and sell Premium on their servers. And he was also vocal about very much disliking barring singleplayer games behind an always online requirement. But The stop Killing games Initiative is so badly and vaguely worded, that that might not even come to the minds of the Lawmakers. Polititians aren't the brightest when it comes to Video Games, so giving them the opportunity to ruin everything by giving them a too vaguely worded initiative is a REAL problem.
@@FeldiArts "at that point you might as well play a single player game" uh....okay. Better then not playing the game at all. Again, are you really saying that there is no worth to WoW outside of multiplayer content? Is doing raids the only thing one can do in WoW? come on now. WoW is also literally the worst example you could have used, the game is decades old and you still can easily find other people to play it with.
@@redcoffeemug7537 I've been in abandoned MMOs and honestly... it felt like a ghost of a game (Otherland for example). Those games are conceptualized to be played in multiplayer. it's kinda funny how you turn "you could just play single player games at this point" into "You shouldn't play any games" because that tells me that you DO value the multiplayer aspect more than the game itself... a bit contradicting with your "Again, are you really saying that there is no worth to WoW outside of multiplayer content?" you kinda answered that question yourself by not wanting to play single player games instead XD
@@FeldiArts i got confused by your shit way of phrasing things. i thought you meant with "okay then try to play an MMO like... World of warcraft and do innis by yourself because you can't get a group. at that point you might as well play a single player game" That playing WoW by yourself is LIKE playing a single player game. Not that i should play a DIFFERENT single player game. Which is a stupid sentiment to have. The point i was trying to make is that there is still worth to WoW even played alone, and when multiplayer is removed it doesn't immediately need to thrown into the garbage.
His takes make sense when you find out he created a game publishing company called Offbrand Games with Ludwig Ahgren (Moist eSports Co-founder) and its first release is an always online live service game. He's arguing in terrible faith in solely personal interest. I had to research this on my own as he brought this up at zero point in either of his two videos on this subject. You'd think it'd be important to mention as the BIGGEST voice against stop killing games that you're actively working with a company creating a product under the business model Stop Killing Games seeks to eradicate. But no. Moreso he flat out deleted the recent stream this was mentioned in, and has been outright blocking anyone who even mentions this in his chat. So this isn't about one bad take. It's about Thor making an attempt at character assassination as a tactic to eliminate a potential business obstacle. Which in his own words is "gross".
Well yes if you saw the original video the reason why he makes it is becausec, the devs working in the industry can not give their opinion with out the getting fired for creating a scandal for their company. But it does make sense why he would speak out against something that will will hurt mostly indie devs and small publishers not so much the giants. Also about Ludwig is Moist eSports Co-Founder is wrong. It should be Co-Owner since Moistcritical founded the company and Ludwig latter on came on the team.
@@petervarelas198 if their entire businesses model is to milk the customer with intentionally predatory game design, maybe they deserve to get hurt. This will not hurt 99% of indie devs though, since indie devs don't fucking engage in games as a service practices. Thor is a corpo tool, don't let his bad faith arguments get to you.
- *Calls himself PirateSoftware* - *Boasts that he developed a game where progress is directly tied to achievements* - *Thinks that stops pirates when achievement managers exist* - *Doesn't actually care to PirateSoftware as he doesn't believe in game preservation (Stop Killing Games is, by proxy, game preservation)* Ah, there he is. That mf. What a tool.
He also thinks spacewar is a piracy metric when the reality is that it pops up when the steam API is being called. Unreal Engine 5 has a steam plugin and it does exactly that and it's meant to test achievements lmao.
@@BenderBendingRodriguezOFFICIAL many MANY patches to make online functionality for pirated steam games work by using spacewar, it basically is a piracy metric lol
Same guy streamed his playthrough of Animal Well and bragged about solving the hardest puzzles offstream by himself, when he wouldn't have even known they existed without looking them up in the first place. All image, no integrity.
The reason Thor won't debate anyone on the issue on stream is because he knows his arguments won't carry water against anyone that has a basic understanding of the issue.
It's not like we're suppressing Thor's right to speak on the matter, quite the contrary really. Ross has offered to have an open discussion with him and get his perspective on the matter multiple times, yet he keeps refusing. He's instead resorting to assassinating Ross' character with baseless claims. If Thor truly believed we were misguided with our campaign, he could've helped steer the ship in the right direction.
All his argument make me mad because if you've dealt with intellectually dishonest people you'll know this guy is just trying to drown out the real issues and push his bad faith arguments. He only even responds to the easy to spin comments in his videos and refuses to acknowledge every time Ross has approached him to debate the issues constructively. That guy is a tool
@@saycrain So the way he programmed the game is that he made the game's progression be extremely tied to Steam's achievement system. It is to the point where if Valve did the smallest changes to it, it would fuck the game by heavy proportions, he fixed it once during development but what happens after like half a decade or so once the game is finished being made? The game could be made unplayable once the changes happens. He did it for piracy reasons, which is dumb and pointless ultimately.
@@vipersniperpiper6093 and this extremely idiotic save game system doesn't even prevent piracy at all because there are steam achievement emulators and you can pirate it no problem. Also his game isn't even finished after what like, 8 years?
@@vipersniperpiper6093 if you follow the definition of live service game, then that's not it. A live service game is as stated: In the video game industry, games as a service represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model.
1:10 the irony. considering, that on secondlife he was selling skins that he got from one of his "employees" then ends up firing them but then continues to sell and profit off those skins.
@@Sara3346 kiwifarms has apparently been following him ever since his escapades in second life under the username maldavius figtree so just search up that name and you should be able to find things
He makes such a huge point about devs putting their heart and soul into making their games and the process of creating them being an important part of their lives, only to turn around and say, "so that's why they need to be unplayable/unusable once their usefulness is gone."
Piratesoftware is the kind of guy who thinks he knows everything while he only has very limited superficial knowledge and just makes up for it by sounding more confident. This kind of person is so cringy.
I’ve only ever heard that guy speak in the most simple terms, and anything beyond that is said in such vague ways, you have no idea what he’s talking about.
"What if it's online only live service" Thats your freakin problem, nobody forced you to design it like that. I love seeing this guy getting pushback on his nonsense.
@@vantadaga since when live service is a genre, it's a greedy practice that companies cook up to maximize profit. The only games that can use this are Free to Play games, not 70 dollars game like CoD
@@vantadaga People have hosted private servers for MMOs for decades. In fact, you not having the memory of when Blizzard decided to go hard on going after people for hosting legacy versions of WoW, which was only a few years ago, shows you're not old enough to be talking about these subjects.
red faction is an excellent example of player run support after the game lost dev support, still got private servers 20yrs later and can still be bought
lets not forget the community patches that enable the game to function on modern systems. when Volition stopped supporting the game the community stepped up and have upheld support for the game independently from the devs if i'm interpreting Thor's words correctly, what should have happened is that when Volition dropped support everyone should have stopped playing, uninstalled the game and promptly thrown it away and forgotten. in his words, a game with only a few players is not worth supporting and is not worth preserving but that's just my interpretation of his reasoning applied to a practical example, as the video states, he contradicts himself a lot and it makes it difficult to apply his logic to existing scenarios
Ragnarok Online private servers, to add onto the point at 11:00 or so, have existed for DECADES. Both kRO and iRO still officially exist and have a fairly massive playerbase, still receiving updates and still being developed. There are thousands of private servers of all types, some monetized, others not. kRO and iRO still exist and are in perfect health despite this. Argument moot. And when kRO and iRO decide to shut down, we'll still have private servers to relive those memories, locations and events across THREE different emulators. Thor's argument is bad and he should feel bad.
I also wanna take a brief moment here to mention that I have hosted SEVERAL of these servers, monetized and not, and have had player counts in the high hundreds. I can personally attest to Ragnarok Online's official servers not suffering from this.
Point: kRO and iRO actually *did* shut down for a while, before they changed owners. All official servers were shut down before transferring them. Then the new owners booted it back up. They were even addressing this about a year before it would happen to players. And the servers were down for if memory serves for 14 hours before they were up and running again.
@@DraconiusDragora I'm not really seeing how it detracts from the point though. Change in ownership and the servers down for 14 hours or so doesn't mean the game died, and they also announced it well in advance. Even if they didn't, the private servers existed even then, and were not likely to contribute to any shutdown.
Thor uses the example of WoW as a live service that doesn't work, when the very reason blizzard set up their new classic wow servers is because they were genuinely losing players to private servers which have existed for more than a decade.
"We're not making money on this game anymore so we're shutting it down" "Ok. Let me take it over so I can play with friends." "How dare you take away our revenue!" Huh?! Edit: Took out a portion of a statement I didn't agree with anymore.
If you didn't include "make a few bucks" I'd agree, however, owning a business doesn't just mean creating something and releasing it into the world for free, business owners are incurring risks by spending money/time into it, I don't think it's fair that others get to profit off that. Using dead games only for fun though, makes it much better, but it's not like the companies are losing absolutely nothing by letting you have your way, the same way people complain that react content steals potential customers attention away from them, the same can be said by letting dead games be revived. IMO, it's still scummy to kill games over that, so I won't side with companies over that.
@@lllKXlll even so... GTA San Andreas has many online servers, and sn online that only even exists thanks to the community. All those servers usually have big ranks people pay for to help cover server costs and make s profit for thesdmins, and so do pretty much all private servers in every game that allows them. Why is that a bad thing precisely? It sounds like a YOU problem that people would prefer to pay on private servers than pay on the shittier official servers. So yeah, I think they should given a "grace" time where they wouldn't allow monetization, but after games reach end of life, I don't know why you'd think it's bad people wanted to profit off of it.
One needs to remember that Jason has a vested interest in such laws and regulations not existing. He is co-owner of a puplishing company that is publishing a new live service game in addition to his own game requiring steam connection in order to read saves (your steam achievements function as your save file according to him).
Thor sees himself firstly in the shoes of the companies, because he is worried about his own potential bottom line. He can do that, but he should be honest about not being on our side.
I wouldn't argue it'd hurt his own potential bottom line much because the arguments show that the initiative wouldn't even hurt the bottom line of anyone. And he's not working in the live service game industry. He's just plainly wrong and that's unfortunate.
@@BloodAssassinafter all this happened I reached out to a friend of mine who started working at Blizz last year. He seemed receptive to the initiative, albeit he wasn’t sure how the nitty gritty would work. I asked if any of his colleagues had opinions, according to him some are indifferent, some are “that does seem nice.” Given that they actually work on building games and are not glorified player babysitters, I thought Thor’s vocal hate boner was kind of odd.
I am glad I'm not the only person that thinks this man I'd an industry plant who openly goes against everything gamers actually want. I can't stand this dude at all
His old job in cyber security included social engineering which is manipulation so obviously he does it to his audience. All this is even more true with his stance on "woke" blaming players for everything.
What i never liked about the argumentation of Thor is that he constantly attempts to reframe the goals of the initiative, while refusing to discuss is with people that are from the initiative. Only "comproising" by considering to talk to people of which he knows their stance doesnt deviate from his own to much. I am not just claiming that, it is what it looks like. He keeps saying stuff like "wee need to have a discussion about..." and then talks about a changed variant of the goals of the initiative. Or makes up intentions of the initiative that arent stated. Then he refuses to talk to his opposition, so he doesnt want a discussion, he wants to set a Topic.
People were calling him out months ago for his contradictions, his massive ego and his annoying attitude, but it took some stupid Classic wow drama for people to wake up lol
I was telling people in an MMO discord why I hated him 5-6 months ago too. He's a know it all that reports people and has energy like he's running to tell the teacher ir w/e. Everyone knows a person like him and everyone hates them
I didn't see people make this example yet, but Minecraft Java officially distributes its server and client, anyone can host a server, make server and client mods, all versions are officially available also. You can download an older version of the client and server with custom mods and have fun with friends if you want to for some reason. Some of Thor's concerns are real, there are a lot of pay to win Minecraft servers, a lot of shady servers, and some potential revenue of official servers/services is lost to unofficial servers/services. Buut, I do agree that distributing all is the right way to go. Gamers should have an option to buy a specific version of server and client, really have the files, not as a service. The developer can always offer a official server as a paid service plus sells etc. When a next version of client and/or server is developed, gamers can buy it again they feel the new version is worth. This way gamers keep buying new versions only if they think is worth it and developers feel the need to make the changes gamers want to keep having revenue. Not super capitalist, but more fare and open. Like Minecraft was on its origins.
@@ShuAbLe technically Minecraft JE client also contains server. And technically Minecraft is multiplayer-only game. Singleplayer just secretly starts embedded server.
Even assuming Thor is completely correct, in his argument status quo is worse. In current state 'Bad Guy' makes server software, does all Thor said and gets self-published developer disappear into nothing with everything it had. Then 'Bad Guy' can spin up server he written beforehand and truly capture all players. While if this passes, 'Bad Guy' will have to do something with all those free servers and all those invite-only servers he might not even know they exist.
"Some of Thor's concerns are real, there are a lot of pay to win Minecraft servers, a lot of shady servers, and some potential revenue of official servers/services is lost to unofficial servers/services. Buut, I do agree that distributing all is the right way to go." Not really because these issues already happen regardless of legality. It's not something which the initiative will affect.
Really shows peoples priorities. It’s kinda like that one meme Piratesoftware wants you to have no rights?: *We sleep* Piratesoftware sucking at a game?: *real shit*
Its not bootlicking for developers. This does not affect developers. It only affects publishers and IP holders who benefit from controlling access to what you can buy and how you can interact with what you bought.
thaaaaaaaank you, this sh+t was/is driving me nuts all the time, bobby kottick is not a developer. i constantly heard people lumping those together. no developer ever wants to make a life service game, in 99,99% of cases they´re forced to by publishers, no developer wanted gambling mechanincs and shitty loot boxes in their games, shitty life services, microtransactions or deliberately making your game much much lkess fun, so that you can back to default fun with hefty inscrutable purchases. a developer usually wants to make the the best most fun game possible. while the publisher wants to make the most money possible, these are not the same
Plenty of indie developers are also IP holders, this is not an entirely "rich" people's problem even thought the majority of live services come from big companies. There are plenty of flaws with Thor's arguments, but saying developers are going to be entirely unaffected is also disingenuous.
@@symmetrie_bruch "Live service" is a bad term for what you're probably implying, because I can say for sure, plenty of non-greedy people would want to make a live service game, but not Suicide Squad like games, I'm talking about MMOs and MOBAs, given enough resources, there'd be thousands more of those.
@@lllKXlll the dev here is also taking the role of the publisher when you... Self publish. You have a responsibility to have a sunset plan when you enter a contract with your customer who paid you money. Just like how people would be mad if an individual Dev publishes a paid early access project with the promise of a full release then abandons it without a word.
The fact that LolCowSoftware has to imediately go to false dicotomies and sleight of hand semantic tactics. tells alot about his moral compass, stance towards the gaming community and general personality.
Yea. Thor might be a company shill, but he has gotten the word out for people like you to join in on the fight. And thank you for signing, it means a lot to us fellow gamers who love games and want to save them
ironic that since he got twitch famous he completely stopped working on his own game, left backers with no information and bans people that ask about it in his chat
“I think about them all the time, did you know I used to work for blizzard? By god, those were the days. Sucking on daddies milk to retain my job that he gave me, truly a time to be alive” - Piratesoftware
the fact that the "algorithm" said I needed to see this dude nonstop shows the algorithm isnt that good. My shorts and my main feed was full of this guy's crap.
If you think Thor is good at game development. Go play his demo. You will be as shocked as I was. Its a baby game. Like a 2 button baby game. It was soo bad I now believe, its only purpose is another way for thor to Fleece his fans for money. And it looks like a blatant rip off of Undertale. Never played it but it looks almost a 1 to 1 rip.
I respect the skepticism of Thor, but saying it's 1:1 to Undertale and then saying you HAVEN'T PLAYED IT. DUDE, IT'S A SIX HOUR GAME. If you want anyone to take your opinion seriously, actually play the thing you are using as comparison. The charm of Undertale isn't the look. He very well could have copied the look, that's not a huge deal.
Thor's logic fails about the monetization aspect right off the bat. Asheron's Call was created by Turbine and backed by Microsoft. Somewhere along the line Warner Brothers bought out Turbine after Turbine parted ways with MS. The whole point for WB to buy Turbine was Turbine made Lord of the Rings Online. WB has the movie IP and wanted the game IP. Makes sense. WB set Asheron's Call to a "Maintenance mode" making it free to play as long as you purchased the game because after something like 14 years the player base had shrunk by a lot. Fast forward to Jan. 31st 2017 and WB shutdown all the AC servers. Sighting it too costly to keep them up and running. Fair enough. Games dead right? Well, now there are server emulators, people still playing, and the community is steady with small growth spurts. Servers aren't monetized. Point is, if your live service game is dying/dead, you aren't making any money off it anyway to justify keeping the game running. Which means, even if there are private servers, how much could they possibly monetize an already dead game that wasn't worth the cost of running anyway? Thor's claims of monetization are laughable if you're already killing the game because there's no more money to be made. As for his, bad guys are going to purposely attack the game/studio until it dies to make private servers for monetization reasons is BS. How many WoW private servers are there currently, how many of them charge money, and was Blizzard bot and exploit attacked for those servers to exist? Amazingly, Blizzard listened to players and spun up old classic servers that people were wanting. Thor's arguments do not align with what actually happens in the real world.
Great video. Yeah I'm kinda baffled by his take too, but the silver lining about him talking about is that now many more people know about the initiative. P.S. Hope that boss didn't give you much more trouble.
Something I feel is somewhat important to add: If the implementation of pro-consumer regulation kills something, that something shouldn't have been alive in the first place.
I always told people if he was a cyber security agent for the government; Agents never relinquish their status just like that. Hes a plant investigating all these streaming platforms
9:10 Honestly I’d be pretty interested in a game mode of Apex where it’s just a 1v1 on a massive map, slowly shrinking. Where you have to gather what you can to prepare for the showdown at the end. That would be pretty cool.
@@thatdudnum67potatoe45 doesn’t have to be empty. Could be npc enemies on the map that you fight to gain better resources. Like Tarkov or Dark and Darker.
The dude literally stole someone's art and profited from it. He sacked an avatar creator in second life and kept all their creations and wouldn't give them back.
the funniest thing are his nonsensical drawings. He's drawing just a bunch of random boxes and arrows to appear like he's explaining some smart concept
Me and the boys making a bot cartel, just waiting for this law to get passed so we can force to shut down live service games and monetize our own servers.😈
Finaly someone says it he defends scam games, or games that are bad to the customer. He defends games that insult their player base and ruin established lore, he also abuses report systems whenever he gets slightly upset
If you change out every instance where Thor says "developer" to "publisher", it'll make a lot more sense. Because ACTUAL developers already don't decide any of this stuff. Most of the decisions come from up top, and developers just work a 9 to 5 where they code things on their little "To Do" lists, given to them by management. What's it matter if they code it in a way where people will be able to keep playing instead of the very strict specifications of anti-consumer mechanics (DRM, online only, etc). The former is easier too...
All of a sudden his defense of assassin’s creed: yakub edition makes perfect sense. At the time I thought it was weird that this a alleged gamer guy had such a cookie cutter, industry-glazing take.
Not to mention private servers can try out things that the company may be scared to try and if it works then the company can adopt what those private servers did to give a wider audience a better game.
Y'know, one game I think of when people talk private servers is actually the first Final Fantasy MMO, FF11. That game is currently a much different game than it was all those years ago, and private servers allow people to relive their nostalgia days.
Meanwhile this guy wants to dominate a whole server in ashes of creation with his guild and massively fails doing it and actually roaching out. Same happened in EVE. Dude had a guild and used an exploit to get a certain ammount of power. After the devs patched this exploit he said the devs a conspirate against him. Leading to Pirate abandone the game and trash talks it.
Dude this is nuts. He literally came out of nowhere and with just a massive following, had zero "dirt" on him. it was weird. Crazy to see someone else called this out 5 months ago, before I had even seen PirateSoftware. I constantly heard Katt Williams in my head... " What do you think a plant *is* ?"
PS's example scenario is so stupid. The only way it would ever happen is if a company simultaneously created a super valuable IP that people en mass want to "steal", while also being unable to afford basic cybersecurity.
I wouldn't really call him a plant, but most of his background stories are complete fabrications. Just listening to him talk about infosec sets off my bullshit detector. He just comes off as a narcissist making shit up for attention.
Thor has a massive ego, to the point where it's a problem. He has some skill, but has become unshakably convinced that he's the very best, like no one ever was. What's more, he makes the classic mistake of believing since he's the best at one thing (when actually he isn't even that), that he's the best at all kinds of things, as though his skills generalize to all situations. It's sad how much more bearable he would be with just a little bit of humility. But instead, he needs to feel *better than you* - and he doesn't seem to care how his actions affect others. As others have said, it's funny in a depressing way that he calls himself Pirate Software while doing all this. It's as though he's convinced his aesthetics matter more than the substance of what he does.
PirateSoftware will defend the industry over consumers at every single turn. It's funny how nobody was allowed to dislike him until he made an oopsie in WoW.
100% agreed he is. I cant say what company i currently work at but i am 35+ and have worked in the industry since i was 14 and got my beginning as a QA tester,things were so different back then. Went to school through a company initiative and got my degree. NO dev that i have met agrees with what he said at all. Even my coworkers all think he is being bought off and pushing corporate agendas. It stands to reason so too since he has been given access to alot of IP software that he has no business having access too. 100% he is a shill that is coming from someone who is in the industry.
BULLSEYE. Thor has been made director of strategy on a publisher that is about to release an online only live service game. How convenient he forgot to mention possible conflicts of interests in both his videos, and is plain refusing to discuss with Ross. He is NOT arguing in good faith.
Thor pretending that we haven't had private server files since 1993 with DOOM. Hell with some fan patches I can still load up an online game of Battlefield 1942 which is 22 years old at this point. Private servers for mmo's have existed for decades at this point and run just fine, and that required reverse engineering, providing server files at death would only make that easier so Thor talking like it's some barrier is completely stupid. On the point of private servers I think that's something we'd have to compromise on with the initiative, I suspect companies will respond that they should have exclusive rights to the playerbase while they're supporting the game. I personally think that'd be a loss but it's a fair compromise I suppose.They definitely demonstrate the desire for older builds of games and they should take that into account while they're supporting the game. Kudos to Daybreak for giving Project 99 their official blessing.
Even consoles like the PS2 have private servers. You can play an online multiplier game on the PS2 right now, so even an excuse for consoles is irrelevant.
I have to say...as time goes on I feel more and more negatively towards Thor. He definitely leans into the 'I'm on your side' shtick, but I feel like has an increasingly condescending attitude when people disagree with him, and uses the age old tactic of initiating passive-aggressive pile-ons from his community, but he does it in a very clever way where he never looks bad. He's pretty much untouchable in the streaming space. I get that he's a game dev, so that's always going to be a thing with him, but he definitely is not on the side of the consumer. Another thing he seems to be doing more is inserting himself into culture war stuff. I liked him initially because he seemed totally against all that BS, but like they all do, they have to be seen to be saying the right thing to upkeep their credit score.
Thors' takes are either entirely misinformed or lies and bad faith arguments. Given that he is so unwilling to have an actual discussion/debate about it, Im more inclined to believe the latter.
If you liked this video, you should watch this! th-cam.com/video/cdiMqcwBGn4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qcO3KpQRbuQY12oQ
Thor may be an industry plant but you have the intelligence of one.
your outro was amazing what is it?
It's a song I made. I haven't released it yet. It's not really finished. I might throw together an album with those songs.
@@Lackingx you got talent man, consider releasing an album!
Maldavius Figtree KiwiFarms
Homie saw the future with pirate software being a massive loser. How much more has this video been viewed in the last few days?
ive hated him since i first saw his shorts. i could immediately tell what kind of person he is just by the way he speaks. narcissist with aspergers probably.
308 times, AT LEAST
It was always there. We just chose to look the other way.
can you explain? how is he a "massive loser"?
I am saying the same shit to my friend for a good time too. This guy is 100% artificial. The next one is that guy The Prime Time. He is the same as PirateSoftware, a plant, a fake.
Thor is the embodiment of "then everyone clapped"
He's finally getting called out for being a fraud.
Everything this guy said turned out to be 100% true with the recent drama.
Pardon my ignorance but drop some context plox
@@Ashgrey0 There is a streamer only for-content guild, which was created 2 months ago (more or less) in World of Warcraft. Thor was one of the streamers, who joined this guild. Couple of weeks ago he got into drama with other streamers, who were playing with him. Original drama doesn't really matter, but it was covered by every 2nd streamer at this point. What matters is that it's hardcore, so 2 people lost their max level characters (which is at least hundred hours of real life work). Thor made mistakes like pretty much everyone else in the group, but he was the only one who presented himself like that "God hardcore gamer" before the fiasco and he was also acting pretentious and unapologhetic through the whole situation. Because of massive exposure, everyone started throwing in their 2 cents and as a result Pirate got exposed for being a fraud as far as his skills are concerned, but more importantly many clips started to surface, where Pirate was talking shit about noob streamers in the guild and just acting like an asshole. On top of this, he went full damage control and started double,triple,quadruple etc. down on the whole thing. To the point, where he claimed that he is making "a list" of all the streamers, who were hate-raiding him (loud word, for memeing about him acting like a roach) and threatened to start reporting them. He got kicked out of the guild, but because everything was already blown out of proportions the meme was born and people from other communities like Eve online, AoC started to jump in and exposing him for always being an a-hole.
TLDR he was always a pretentious prick and a fraud (can't comment on his irl accomplishments, because I genuinely don't care, many people are really digging it up tho). Instead of addressing or apoligizing for valid criticism, Pirate pretends like he is right and is bunkering down in his echo-chamber of a stream.
@@Ashgrey0 piratesoftware turned out to be kind of a dishonest douchebag
@@Ashgrey0literally go search pirate software wow drama
Then search pirate software faking gameplay.
He worked for blizzard and he has 300 enchanting bro
whats the recent drama
This video aged like a fine wine
Aside his arguments I kinda dislike his condescending tone and basically painting Ross and people who are for this initiative as idiots.
He said that they are either idiots or don't understand game development (uninformed enough).
If you ask me, it's a good thing we have counter arguments against stop killing games because for something to be refined you have to argue about it and reach the best possible solution to the problem.
Even if this initiative passes there's no garranty that EU will do anything about it, only a small percentage.
I guess piracy is the only way out if this if they don't do anything. Because "piracy is caused by a bad service". If the devs themselves allowed making private servers this wouldn't be an issue. We can always boycott these companies.
@@BloodAssassin Hashing it out with Ross would be the W, instead he chooses to spout rhetoric across the net like a coward.
@@Wr41thgu4rd That would be perfect. It's seems like an excuse, his reason that he brought up, why he won't talk with Ross
"We can always boycott... "
That doesn't work, since "vote with your wallet" is a fallacy.
You'd need a very orchestrated boycott movement for it to work, and that wouldn't happen very well because... Well, I don't exactly like the same games another person does. And vice versa.
"Why/how would I boycott Capcom if I don't even play Resident Evil?"
Now, if only we had actual, tangible regulations and legislation (made after a body of MEPs looked into the issue with specialists, industry experts and counter arguments after _an initiative_ was successfully sent to them)...? Now that would be better chances for the consumer to be heard, wouldn't it?
@@nairocamilo Vote with your wallet is as much a fallacy as boycotting. Which is to say that it would absolutely work, if everyone actually got on board. The problem is the slop enjoyers, and the big investment firms pushing agendas into everything. However, I think it's safe to say that the beast of "live-service" should never have been fed in the first place. And we wouldn't need legislation to defeat it now, if we'd just not nurtured it to begin with. Part of saying "vote with your wallet" is to change the mindset of the average gamer, moving forward. Because even if the current iteration of live service was to die off, the companies would simply try again, with a fresh coat of paint. And we don't want to use government legislation to fix everything. That's too much reliance on governmental bodies.
Ross's comment on that video, which was deleted by pirate software:
"I'll just leave some points on this:
-I'm afraid you're misunderstanding several parts of our initiative. We want as many games as possible to be left in some playable state upon shutdown, not just specifically targeted ones. The Crew was just a convenient example to take action on, it represents hundreds of games that have already been destroyed in a similar manner and hundreds more "at risk" of being destroyed. We're not looking at the advertising being the primary bad practice, but the preventable destruction of videogames themselves.
-This isn't about killing live service games (quite the opposite!), it's primarily about mandating future live service games have an end of life plan from the design phase onward. For existing games, that gets much more complicated, I plan to have a video on that later. So live service games could continue operating in the future same as now, except when they shutdown, they would be handled similarly to Knockout City, Gran Turismo Sport, Scrolls, Ryzom, Astonia, etc. as opposed to leaving the customer with absolutely nothing.
-A key component is how the game is sold and conveyed to the player. Goods are generally sold as one time purchases and you can keep them indefinitely. Services are generally sold with a clearly stated expiration date. Most "Live service" games do neither of these. They are often sold as a one-time purchase with no statement whatsoever about the duration, so customers can't make an informed decision, it's gambling how long the game lasts. Other industries would face legal charges for operating this way. This could likely be running afoul of EU law even without the ECI, that's being tested.
-The EU has laws on EULAs that ban unfair or one-sided terms. MANY existing game EULAs likely violate those. Plus, you can put anything in a EULA. The idea here is to take removal of individual ownership of a game off the table entirely.
-We're not making a distinction between preservation of multiplayer and single player and neither does the law. We fail to find reasons why a 4v4 arena game like Nosgoth should be destroyed permanently when it shuts down other than it being deliberately designed that way with no recourse for the customer.
-As for the reasons why I think this initiative could pass, that's my cynicism bleeding though. I think what we're doing is pushing a good cause that would benefit millions of people through an imperfect system where petty factors of politicians could be a large part of what determines its success or not. Democracy can be a messy process and I was acknowledging that. I'm not championing these flawed factors, but rather saying I think our odds are decent.
Finally, while your earlier comments towards me were far from civil, I don't wish you any ill will, nor do I encourage anyone to harass you. I and others still absolutely disagree with you on the necessity of saving games, but I wanted to be clear causing you trouble is not something I nor the campaign seeks at all. Personally, I think you made your stance clear, you're not going to change your mind, so people should stop bothering you about it."
Thanks. This should be pinned.
Absolutely needs to be pinned.
This absolutely kills any passion I had for Pirate Software, and I will no longer support Thor.
It’s clear he’s boot licking the industry.
wild that he deletes the comment and then pretends that it never existed and his 12 year old audience eats it up
Thor deleting it actually shows how thin skinned he is.
@@LinkieNecronLore Look, I can understand this lapse of judgement upon this whole discussion but "Thor is a bootlicker of the industry" is like, a very "I'm 14 years old" take.
please, stop calling pirate software thor, he is not a thor, he is a rat.
He far from being a Thor! he not worthy of that name! on all levels! Wodan turning in his grave ! watching a corporate plant ! carrying his sons name!
NepoRat
I'm pretty sure Thor is his middle name, his first name is Jason.
He also uses a voice changer lol
Wrong, he's not a rat. He's a roach
Yeah, cute name for a weakling nerd with girly arms, he should've been named like Leslie.
A industry plant, a roach, a rat
I wouldn't go so far as to say industry plant, instead he (imo) is likely catering to game companies sponsoring him. Obviously he has been trying to cultivate an influencer personality. If said personality is pro big corpo mindset, they're more likely to sponsor in the future.
Occam's razor type of arg here, I know, but I think the root of this comes from him being narcissistic and also associated/proxemic to big corpo
how is he a roach/rat?
@@slomnimhe is literally a FED bro. What are you on about? The guy works for the government on military intelligence. He is 100% a plant of someone.
@@lucasljs1545 I would not doubt he lied about that too
I wouldn't have a problem with Thor disagreeing with the initiative if he wasn't so mean-spirited and stubborn about it. He insults Ross on a personal level and refuses communication or discussion on the topic. I saw the portion of his stream reacting to his own initial video on it and he claims the only people going against him are people sending death threats, ignoring everyone who legitimately argues against his points. It's so egotistical which is a shame coming from a guy who has inspired me to get back on my own game development journey.
You have to be really sensitive to think he insulted anyone on a personal level
Deleted Louis rossmann comment on the video too
@@mightquinnable it was Ross comment, not Louis (still a dick move)
@@PandamoniumBruu It was both. Louis Rossmann also had a comment deleted on one of his videos.
@@PandamoniumBruu It was both Ross and Rossman. Rossman is peeved because he was playing effing devils advocate FOR thor.
Thor left blizzard but blizzard never left him.
Oh, he worked at Blizzard? Funny, he never mentions it.
@Charharr you'll never guess where his dad worked!
@@sh-lly We don't have to ask, he's going to make sure we ALL know.
Props to Ross for handling the whole situation very maturely and releasing a video answering Thor's questions and then some without even bringing him up directly.
Oh thank you, I wasn't awear thor did that, I am looking it up right now.
100% Ross turned the other cheek and kept moving forward respectfully even after Thor hurled uncalled for Insults at him even trying to go after ross' appearance for no reason especially when Thor himself looks like a goblin
@@jeroid123 I'd seen people say thor said bad things about Ross but I can't find them. Do you have examples?
@@GoreGutztheImpaler he called him greasy looking and that he looks like a used car salesman stuff like that during his livestream i dont have a time stamp if thats what you are asking for, trying to discredit someone using their appearance is disgusting and anyone that does it should be never be listened to
@@Duskofoolacile420 youtuber with a channel called Accursed Farms
Paid private servers existed for years and will continue to exist. It's not a novel concept. The owners at least have to break even in order to maintain it.
Or, sometimes offer more features than the official servers, such as better anti-cheats, better moderation, better content in general, etc.
I only see this as a positive.
The Battlefield servers are the best examples of community servers that are better than the official ones and the servers selling VIP slots always had the best quality.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566Also the Old CoD games, try to play whitout fan servers and you might as well put you PC on the street whit a "pick me up" sing because you got super hacked.
@@Amsel_616 lol yeah, Activision doesn't give a shit about protecting consumers
@imnotusingmyrealname4566 not always I've been banned on more than one occasion because admins don't like weapons you are using and want to get 100 kills on a helicopter while banning stingers
Indeed, me running a server in my basement 10-15 years after release and with sale and support already stopped does affect the company in exactly 0 ways.
Voobly kept Age of Empires 2 alive for several years and that contributed to Microsoft being able to re-release the game two times. So there's even an argument that it can be beneficial for the devs, free of cost maintained community for newer releases.
Fun fact, he was a well known second life scammer called maldives figtree with a ferret sona
got any search terms I could look up to see this?
Maldavious Figtree
Or Maldavious figtree second life or reddit
@@Saintvali3 thanks
You misspelled the name, and I can find no evidence he was a scammer.
The best comment I've seen on this topic from @jwueller:
Thor has been misrepresenting this massively. He clearly didn't actually understand the initiative or read the FAQ, he doesn't actually understand the EU process, and he argues entirely based on irrelevant US law. He obviously doesn't have a lot of experience as a developer if he thinks making a dedicated server available means re-architecting (and re-balancing?) the entire game. He's worked in QA the majority of the time, not engineering. So maybe he is just out of his depth here. He's basically making up straw men for things the initiative doesn't say, and then complains that the things he just made up don't make sense (duh). The initiative contains plenty of developers in support. So clearly this isn't some impossible problem as he pretends.
Note how he also tried to deflect the conversation towards the initiative wanting to kill live service games, when the initiative is just about how its sold and ownership! Nothing is live service specific!
A lot of people also dont seem to realize that online DRM is basically just a "live service" too that will kill almost every single modern game once the DRM servers inevitably shut down.
His argument about hackers is super hypothetical and could already happen before, but how would you even make money off of it if everyone else can also host the servers, and you just killed the community? Why would anyone pay for that particular one? Its such a non-sequitur.
He also has a huge conflict of interest since he's publishing a live service game himself. So you have to take everything he says with a big grain of salt here. He is not on the customer's team!
I have been a full-stack developer for over 20 years, and everything the initiative is asking for is very reasonable, and I 100% support it. Also note that since laws are very rarely retroactive, this wouldn't actually apply to existing games, just future ones. Those games would be architected with the end-of-life plan in mind, which would make it very easy to adhere to. Yes, some change from the status quo will be required, but I think the initiative only requires the minimum amount of work that still fulfills the goal. Other software industries have to provide a lot more guarantees at end-of-life than games would. Not requiring any further support makes it basically free if the game is properly designed from the start. Not to mention that dedicated servers just used to be included in almost every game for decades.
Any complex cloud architecture that currently exists is much more likely to be self-inflicted than required complexity. And even then, it would not be hard to publish your Kubernetes cluster config to your customers. You could actually run the dedicated server for most games on a toaster. The client actually has significantly higher compute workload due to graphics. There might be exceptions, but servers being complicated is not an excuse to violate the customer's fundamental, constitutional 'Right to Property'.
Note that Thor also showed his true colors in the livestreams preceding his edited videos, where he explicitly said that he doesn't see a problem and that devs/publishers should be able to unilaterally take away your purchase. So he fundamentally disagrees with the objective, even if he pretends otherwise. In those streams, Thor also called Ross 'manipulative' and a 'greasy car salesman', despite Ross being nothing but nice. Ross even tried to reach out via comment on the VOD to clear up misconceptions, which Thor shut down. The comment was deleted at some point.
My takeaway from this is that Thor is not acting in good faith and we shouldn't take him seriously if he isn't proposing any alternative solutions. The only thing he's proposed so far was to disclose that a game might randomly shut down on purchase. But it's easy to see that this doesn't actually solve the problem of games being destroyed. It just makes it more obvious that you're getting robbed later on. Don't take his word at face value. He doesn't have as much authority on the subject as he claims.
Very well put. Yeah to me it seemed liek he had his intentions and then tried to fumble together decoy arguments to support his covert intentions. So he even said he wants us to own nothing, great.
There's a subtle irony in referring to Ross as a 'Greasy car salesman' whilst simultaneously defending the argument that it's perfectly fine to request a customer to:
"Buy this newer model Mustang [Game], I'm afraid we don't stock the parts [Server infrastructure] for that 20 year old Mustang [Game] anymore, and won't remotely entertain the idea of fixing it [making it run standalone/offline], despite having done so in the past, because it won't be profitable for us to do so. But we're ALSO going to make it so that you can't fix it yourself either [Run Offline / Local Hosting / Fan Servers] ... now, how about buying that new Mustang that's very similar to the old one..."
Like if that isn't absolute peak projection.
This is inherently exactly how a sleasy car salesman operates.
Sell a product that is 'supported'
Refuse to provide any warranty or support that can run out at the sellers discretion.
Whoops you just bought an expensive brick, congratulations.
@@ShadowReaperX07 It's being corpo's henchman out of conviction. Real evil right there.
Mofo credited a yt comment. Legend
No Thor knows what's going on and he is sperging because he has a live service game in works.
so THIS is why i only know him as the YT shorts guy and have never seen any longer-form content of his, these takes make no sense lol
@@Sizzyl tbf he mostly streams, and doesn't have many long form video content. It's easy for him to stream and post clips to YT.
oh my god he has one bad take therefore he must be an awful content creator
@@Astrojox_ very true! Exactly what I was saying!
@@Sizzyl u crazy
am I lucky I hsve shorts hidden
Thor's argument of "online games were only few people are playing, aren't worth preserving" is some of the stupidest shit i ever heard. Like realistically, how many people would you need to recreate the environment of an on online multiplayer game, 5-10 people? you really think someone couldn't simply go to a discord or reddit forum and find 9 other people to relive some nostalgic feelings of a game they used to play?
and even more appalling, the idea that something like FFXIV or WoW has zero worth outside of interacting with other people is ridiculous. Are the single player quests not still there? is the world still explorable? Is there no worth in killing smaller enemies and hanging out with NPCs, while listening to the beautiful music? It's crazy that Thor calls himself "pirate software", cause he is saying some ridiculous anti-consumer stuff.
All of this
okay then try to play an MMO like... World of warcraft and do innis by yourself because you can't get a group. at that point you might as well play a single player game.
"It's crazy that Thor calls himself "pirate software", cause he is saying some ridiculous anti-consumer stuff." I dunno his boycott of Sony, because of their anti consumer practices of forcing you to use an external account that is not available to all countries (I think 130 countries are barred from making a PSN acc) is pretty pro consumer.
He is quite pro player but only if it actually makes sense for the devs. Server costs, maintenance and proper bug support is a lot of work and the reason why most private servers ask for donations and sell Premium on their servers. And he was also vocal about very much disliking barring singleplayer games behind an always online requirement. But The stop Killing games Initiative is so badly and vaguely worded, that that might not even come to the minds of the Lawmakers.
Polititians aren't the brightest when it comes to Video Games, so giving them the opportunity to ruin everything by giving them a too vaguely worded initiative is a REAL problem.
@@FeldiArts "at that point you might as well play a single player game"
uh....okay. Better then not playing the game at all. Again, are you really saying that there is no worth to WoW outside of multiplayer content? Is doing raids the only thing one can do in WoW? come on now. WoW is also literally the worst example you could have used, the game is decades old and you still can easily find other people to play it with.
@@redcoffeemug7537 I've been in abandoned MMOs and honestly... it felt like a ghost of a game (Otherland for example). Those games are conceptualized to be played in multiplayer.
it's kinda funny how you turn "you could just play single player games at this point" into "You shouldn't play any games" because that tells me that you DO value the multiplayer aspect more than the game itself... a bit contradicting with your "Again, are you really saying that there is no worth to WoW outside of multiplayer content?" you kinda answered that question yourself by not wanting to play single player games instead XD
@@FeldiArts i got confused by your shit way of phrasing things. i thought you meant with
"okay then try to play an MMO like... World of warcraft and do innis by yourself because you can't get a group. at that point you might as well play a single player game"
That playing WoW by yourself is LIKE playing a single player game. Not that i should play a DIFFERENT single player game. Which is a stupid sentiment to have. The point i was trying to make is that there is still worth to WoW even played alone, and when multiplayer is removed it doesn't immediately need to thrown into the garbage.
His takes make sense when you find out he created a game publishing company called Offbrand Games with Ludwig Ahgren (Moist eSports Co-founder) and its first release is an always online live service game. He's arguing in terrible faith in solely personal interest. I had to research this on my own as he brought this up at zero point in either of his two videos on this subject.
You'd think it'd be important to mention as the BIGGEST voice against stop killing games that you're actively working with a company creating a product under the business model Stop Killing Games seeks to eradicate. But no. Moreso he flat out deleted the recent stream this was mentioned in, and has been outright blocking anyone who even mentions this in his chat. So this isn't about one bad take. It's about Thor making an attempt at character assassination as a tactic to eliminate a potential business obstacle. Which in his own words is "gross".
Well yes if you saw the original video the reason why he makes it is becausec, the devs working in the industry can not give their opinion with out the getting fired for creating a scandal for their company. But it does make sense why he would speak out against something that will will hurt mostly indie devs and small publishers not so much the giants. Also about Ludwig is Moist eSports Co-Founder is wrong. It should be Co-Owner since Moistcritical founded the company and Ludwig latter on came on the team.
@@petervarelas198 if their entire businesses model is to milk the customer with intentionally predatory game design, maybe they deserve to get hurt. This will not hurt 99% of indie devs though, since indie devs don't fucking engage in games as a service practices. Thor is a corpo tool, don't let his bad faith arguments get to you.
- *Calls himself PirateSoftware*
- *Boasts that he developed a game where progress is directly tied to achievements*
- *Thinks that stops pirates when achievement managers exist*
- *Doesn't actually care to PirateSoftware as he doesn't believe in game preservation (Stop Killing Games is, by proxy, game preservation)*
Ah, there he is. That mf. What a tool.
He also thinks spacewar is a piracy metric when the reality is that it pops up when the steam API is being called. Unreal Engine 5 has a steam plugin and it does exactly that and it's meant to test achievements lmao.
@@BenderBendingRodriguezOFFICIAL many MANY patches to make online functionality for pirated steam games work by using spacewar, it basically is a piracy metric lol
If he can pirate himself its fine, if he gets pirated or little money is gone :( Buhu Buhuhu like Mr Krabs would whine.
funnily enough that achievement thing was the only thing I knew about him before I heard his stopkillinggames take
How are you supposed to start a new game if progress it's tied to your achievements?
Same guy streamed his playthrough of Animal Well and bragged about solving the hardest puzzles offstream by himself, when he wouldn't have even known they existed without looking them up in the first place. All image, no integrity.
Ahead of your time with this comment
The reason Thor won't debate anyone on the issue on stream is because he knows his arguments won't carry water against anyone that has a basic understanding of the issue.
Especially against someone who put years into researching it like Ross.
Well, I think thor is being intentionally obtuse on this issue. Whether it's for his own interests as a developer, or to have a "hot take".
"debates" have devolved into "a series of pre-scripted gotchyas". I don't want to see them, and neither does anyone else. It's garbage content.
@@shockwavecity They don't have to have a live debate, but Thor actually reading the FAQ to address to the main points would've been a good start.
@@Lackingxthis would affect his stupid heart game and he would have to reprogram his anti piracy codes.
It's not like we're suppressing Thor's right to speak on the matter, quite the contrary really. Ross has offered to have an open discussion with him and get his perspective on the matter multiple times, yet he keeps refusing. He's instead resorting to assassinating Ross' character with baseless claims. If Thor truly believed we were misguided with our campaign, he could've helped steer the ship in the right direction.
All his argument make me mad because if you've dealt with intellectually dishonest people you'll know this guy is just trying to drown out the real issues and push his bad faith arguments. He only even responds to the easy to spin comments in his videos and refuses to acknowledge every time Ross has approached him to debate the issues constructively. That guy is a tool
Yep
This guy has a pretty long kiwi farms thread that I’m just waiting for someone to cover
Oh man, the underage girl he employed to work on his second life furry smut and met in person hours away... Yikes
Dude thread went from 20 something pages in the start of 2024 to 250 pages in 1 year. That impressive
I mean ,considering how he designed his indie game Heartbound, he is unintentionally doing the exact thing this initiative is trying to stop.
what is it that he's doing with that game that's live service related?
@@saycrain So the way he programmed the game is that he made the game's progression be extremely tied to Steam's achievement system. It is to the point where if Valve did the smallest changes to it, it would fuck the game by heavy proportions, he fixed it once during development but what happens after like half a decade or so once the game is finished being made? The game could be made unplayable once the changes happens. He did it for piracy reasons, which is dumb and pointless ultimately.
@@vipersniperpiper6093 And his channel is called "Pirate Software". Purest irony. xD
@@vipersniperpiper6093 and this extremely idiotic save game system doesn't even prevent piracy at all because there are steam achievement emulators and you can pirate it no problem. Also his game isn't even finished after what like, 8 years?
@@vipersniperpiper6093
if you follow the definition of live service game, then that's not it.
A live service game is as stated: In the video game industry, games as a service represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model.
"Games have to be left in a funtional playable state." Damn, hows Heartbound doing?
Games like GTA 5, Minecraft, and Gmod also completely destroy his arguments against monetized private servers
1:10 the irony. considering, that on secondlife he was selling skins that he got from one of his "employees" then ends up firing them but then continues to sell and profit off those skins.
I'm new to this, and while this could be very well true do you have any links to evidenceof any kind?
@@Sara3346 search "Maldavius Figtree" and Second Life. he scammed people
@@Sara3346TH-cam hates direct links but I would search up second life with pirate software
Then look at the kiwi farm to make a personal judgment call
@@Sara3346 kiwifarms has apparently been following him ever since his escapades in second life under the username maldavius figtree so just search up that name and you should be able to find things
He makes such a huge point about devs putting their heart and soul into making their games and the process of creating them being an important part of their lives, only to turn around and say, "so that's why they need to be unplayable/unusable once their usefulness is gone."
“I like my games how I like my lewed artist I groomed on second life. no older than 10” - Piratesoftware
This Thor guy 100% sniffs his own farts
This is like throwing away food and then yelling at a homeless guy for dumpster diving,"Hey, you cant eat that, I paid for that!"
Piratesoftware is the kind of guy who thinks he knows everything while he only has very limited superficial knowledge and just makes up for it by sounding more confident.
This kind of person is so cringy.
I’ve only ever heard that guy speak in the most simple terms, and anything beyond that is said in such vague ways, you have no idea what he’s talking about.
with thor back in hot water im revisiting this and remember just how much of an insincere grifter he is
Always has been
Yeah he's been awful since day1, idk how he ever got big
Only ever saw some shorts and the ferrets so i thought he was chill. Have not fully formed my opinion of him yet though.
"What if it's online only live service" Thats your freakin problem, nobody forced you to design it like that. I love seeing this guy getting pushback on his nonsense.
It will render an entire genre of games obsolete, and force millions of people away from games, you guys cannot call yourself "gamers"
@@vantadagadoes any of your uninformed comments not end with an attack on the other person?
Live service is not a genre, what are you on about.
@@ambralemon MMOs, you bell end
@@vantadaga since when live service is a genre, it's a greedy practice that companies cook up to maximize profit. The only games that can use this are Free to Play games, not 70 dollars game like CoD
@@vantadaga People have hosted private servers for MMOs for decades. In fact, you not having the memory of when Blizzard decided to go hard on going after people for hosting legacy versions of WoW, which was only a few years ago, shows you're not old enough to be talking about these subjects.
red faction is an excellent example of player run support after the game lost dev support, still got private servers 20yrs later and can still be bought
lets not forget the community patches that enable the game to function on modern systems. when Volition stopped supporting the game the community stepped up and have upheld support for the game independently from the devs
if i'm interpreting Thor's words correctly, what should have happened is that when Volition dropped support everyone should have stopped playing, uninstalled the game and promptly thrown it away and forgotten. in his words, a game with only a few players is not worth supporting and is not worth preserving
but that's just my interpretation of his reasoning applied to a practical example, as the video states, he contradicts himself a lot and it makes it difficult to apply his logic to existing scenarios
Ragnarok Online private servers, to add onto the point at 11:00 or so, have existed for DECADES. Both kRO and iRO still officially exist and have a fairly massive playerbase, still receiving updates and still being developed. There are thousands of private servers of all types, some monetized, others not. kRO and iRO still exist and are in perfect health despite this.
Argument moot. And when kRO and iRO decide to shut down, we'll still have private servers to relive those memories, locations and events across THREE different emulators. Thor's argument is bad and he should feel bad.
I also wanna take a brief moment here to mention that I have hosted SEVERAL of these servers, monetized and not, and have had player counts in the high hundreds. I can personally attest to Ragnarok Online's official servers not suffering from this.
Point: kRO and iRO actually *did* shut down for a while, before they changed owners.
All official servers were shut down before transferring them. Then the new owners booted it back up.
They were even addressing this about a year before it would happen to players. And the servers were down for if memory serves for 14 hours before they were up and running again.
@@DraconiusDragora I'm not really seeing how it detracts from the point though. Change in ownership and the servers down for 14 hours or so doesn't mean the game died, and they also announced it well in advance. Even if they didn't, the private servers existed even then, and were not likely to contribute to any shutdown.
Thor uses the example of WoW as a live service that doesn't work, when the very reason blizzard set up their new classic wow servers is because they were genuinely losing players to private servers which have existed for more than a decade.
"We're not making money on this game anymore so we're shutting it down"
"Ok. Let me take it over so I can play with friends."
"How dare you take away our revenue!"
Huh?!
Edit: Took out a portion of a statement I didn't agree with anymore.
If you didn't include "make a few bucks" I'd agree, however, owning a business doesn't just mean creating something and releasing it into the world for free, business owners are incurring risks by spending money/time into it, I don't think it's fair that others get to profit off that.
Using dead games only for fun though, makes it much better, but it's not like the companies are losing absolutely nothing by letting you have your way, the same way people complain that react content steals potential customers attention away from them, the same can be said by letting dead games be revived. IMO, it's still scummy to kill games over that, so I won't side with companies over that.
@@lllKXlll You're right. I thought about it and I think that was against what I was saying.
@@lllKXlll even so... GTA San Andreas has many online servers, and sn online that only even exists thanks to the community. All those servers usually have big ranks people pay for to help cover server costs and make s profit for thesdmins, and so do pretty much all private servers in every game that allows them. Why is that a bad thing precisely?
It sounds like a YOU problem that people would prefer to pay on private servers than pay on the shittier official servers. So yeah, I think they should given a "grace" time where they wouldn't allow monetization, but after games reach end of life, I don't know why you'd think it's bad people wanted to profit off of it.
One needs to remember that Jason has a vested interest in such laws and regulations not existing. He is co-owner of a puplishing company that is publishing a new live service game in addition to his own game requiring steam connection in order to read saves (your steam achievements function as your save file according to him).
Thor sees himself firstly in the shoes of the companies, because he is worried about his own potential bottom line. He can do that, but he should be honest about not being on our side.
He also has friends working for these companies.
I wouldn't argue it'd hurt his own potential bottom line much because the arguments show that the initiative wouldn't even hurt the bottom line of anyone. And he's not working in the live service game industry. He's just plainly wrong and that's unfortunate.
Isn't he a Nepotism-baby since his dad worked in Blizzard before him?
@Pedro8675309 Yes he is.
@@BloodAssassinafter all this happened I reached out to a friend of mine who started working at Blizz last year. He seemed receptive to the initiative, albeit he wasn’t sure how the nitty gritty would work. I asked if any of his colleagues had opinions, according to him some are indifferent, some are “that does seem nice.” Given that they actually work on building games and are not glorified player babysitters, I thought Thor’s vocal hate boner was kind of odd.
I am glad I'm not the only person that thinks this man I'd an industry plant who openly goes against everything gamers actually want.
I can't stand this dude at all
His old job in cyber security included social engineering which is manipulation so obviously he does it to his audience. All this is even more true with his stance on "woke" blaming players for everything.
Also why he feels okay voicemodding
Exactly, he is literally a FED.
What i never liked about the argumentation of Thor is that he constantly attempts to reframe the goals of the initiative, while refusing to discuss is with people that are from the initiative. Only "comproising" by considering to talk to people of which he knows their stance doesnt deviate from his own to much. I am not just claiming that, it is what it looks like. He keeps saying stuff like "wee need to have a discussion about..." and then talks about a changed variant of the goals of the initiative. Or makes up intentions of the initiative that arent stated. Then he refuses to talk to his opposition, so he doesnt want a discussion, he wants to set a Topic.
"how DARE you play a game you bought"
He is legit fear mongering
People were calling him out months ago for his contradictions, his massive ego and his annoying attitude, but it took some stupid Classic wow drama for people to wake up lol
I was telling people in an MMO discord why I hated him 5-6 months ago too. He's a know it all that reports people and has energy like he's running to tell the teacher ir w/e. Everyone knows a person like him and everyone hates them
I didn't see people make this example yet, but Minecraft Java officially distributes its server and client, anyone can host a server, make server and client mods, all versions are officially available also. You can download an older version of the client and server with custom mods and have fun with friends if you want to for some reason.
Some of Thor's concerns are real, there are a lot of pay to win Minecraft servers, a lot of shady servers, and some potential revenue of official servers/services is lost to unofficial servers/services. Buut, I do agree that distributing all is the right way to go.
Gamers should have an option to buy a specific version of server and client, really have the files, not as a service. The developer can always offer a official server as a paid service plus sells etc. When a next version of client and/or server is developed, gamers can buy it again they feel the new version is worth. This way gamers keep buying new versions only if they think is worth it and developers feel the need to make the changes gamers want to keep having revenue.
Not super capitalist, but more fare and open. Like Minecraft was on its origins.
@@ShuAbLe technically Minecraft JE client also contains server. And technically Minecraft is multiplayer-only game. Singleplayer just secretly starts embedded server.
Even assuming Thor is completely correct, in his argument status quo is worse. In current state 'Bad Guy' makes server software, does all Thor said and gets self-published developer disappear into nothing with everything it had. Then 'Bad Guy' can spin up server he written beforehand and truly capture all players. While if this passes, 'Bad Guy' will have to do something with all those free servers and all those invite-only servers he might not even know they exist.
"Some of Thor's concerns are real, there are a lot of pay to win Minecraft servers, a lot of shady servers, and some potential revenue of official servers/services is lost to unofficial servers/services. Buut, I do agree that distributing all is the right way to go."
Not really because these issues already happen regardless of legality. It's not something which the initiative will affect.
@@uis246it only really does that after 1.3.1
And it does so, so that people can play on LAN.
No internet, you can still play your worlds offline.
@@uis246 like single player tarkov
This dude was WAY ahead of the curve. Well done man.
Stop Killing Games should have been what stained this guy's rep, but if hardcore wow is what gets people's attention, then fine lol
Really shows peoples priorities.
It’s kinda like that one meme
Piratesoftware wants you to have no rights?: *We sleep*
Piratesoftware sucking at a game?: *real shit*
It wouldve but pirate took a week long break immediately after this scandal and people forgot all about it
Its not bootlicking for developers. This does not affect developers. It only affects publishers and IP holders who benefit from controlling access to what you can buy and how you can interact with what you bought.
thaaaaaaaank you, this sh+t was/is driving me nuts all the time, bobby kottick is not a developer. i constantly heard people lumping those together. no developer ever wants to make a life service game, in 99,99% of cases they´re forced to by publishers, no developer wanted gambling mechanincs and shitty loot boxes in their games, shitty life services, microtransactions or deliberately making your game much much lkess fun, so that you can back to default fun with hefty inscrutable purchases. a developer usually wants to make the the best most fun game possible. while the publisher wants to make the most money possible, these are not the same
Plenty of indie developers are also IP holders, this is not an entirely "rich" people's problem even thought the majority of live services come from big companies. There are plenty of flaws with Thor's arguments, but saying developers are going to be entirely unaffected is also disingenuous.
@@symmetrie_bruch "Live service" is a bad term for what you're probably implying, because I can say for sure, plenty of non-greedy people would want to make a live service game, but not Suicide Squad like games, I'm talking about MMOs and MOBAs, given enough resources, there'd be thousands more of those.
@@lllKXlll the dev here is also taking the role of the publisher when you... Self publish. You have a responsibility to have a sunset plan when you enter a contract with your customer who paid you money. Just like how people would be mad if an individual Dev publishes a paid early access project with the promise of a full release then abandons it without a word.
The fact that LolCowSoftware has to imediately go to false dicotomies and sleight of hand semantic tactics. tells alot about his moral compass, stance towards the gaming community and general personality.
„Hi, my name is Jason Thorpo also known as Proprietary Software.”
After his deal with Ludwig this guy is going die on the hill of live service.
I am thankful that this "drama" happened though, I didn't know of the initiative before and have signed it now.
Yea. Thor might be a company shill, but he has gotten the word out for people like you to join in on the fight. And thank you for signing, it means a lot to us fellow gamers who love games and want to save them
ironic that since he got twitch famous he completely stopped working on his own game, left backers with no information and bans people that ask about it in his chat
Thor dropped that mask.
"Won't someone think of the billion dollar companies?!"
“I think about them all the time, did you know I used to work for blizzard? By god, those were the days. Sucking on daddies milk to retain my job that he gave me, truly a time to be alive” - Piratesoftware
the fact that the "algorithm" said I needed to see this dude nonstop shows the algorithm isnt that good. My shorts and my main feed was full of this guy's crap.
Dodge that damn shield swipe bruh
Yeah... I'm bad.
you called it. This video aged well.
So is his buddy asmongold too. They are employed by the same media company so theyre coworkers.
This shitty ass astroturf streamer youtuber ecosystem is starting to make more and more sense
Astroturfed youtubers need to go. They are absolutely soulless boring automations.
this guy constantly deletes comments and strikes videos critical of him. hes heavy on censorship curation
Fun fact: he uses a voice changer to make his voice deeper💀
Just as bad as Elon faking his PoE status imo. Ego for seemingly no reason
If you think Thor is good at game development. Go play his demo. You will be as shocked as I was. Its a baby game. Like a 2 button baby game. It was soo bad I now believe, its only purpose is another way for thor to Fleece his fans for money. And it looks like a blatant rip off of Undertale. Never played it but it looks almost a 1 to 1 rip.
I respect the skepticism of Thor, but saying it's 1:1 to Undertale and then saying you HAVEN'T PLAYED IT. DUDE, IT'S A SIX HOUR GAME. If you want anyone to take your opinion seriously, actually play the thing you are using as comparison.
The charm of Undertale isn't the look. He very well could have copied the look, that's not a huge deal.
A good mmo can be played single player. Vanilla wow is the most remixed in history, and I could play every rendition of it single player.
Thor's logic fails about the monetization aspect right off the bat.
Asheron's Call was created by Turbine and backed by Microsoft. Somewhere along the line Warner Brothers bought out Turbine after Turbine parted ways with MS. The whole point for WB to buy Turbine was Turbine made Lord of the Rings Online. WB has the movie IP and wanted the game IP. Makes sense. WB set Asheron's Call to a "Maintenance mode" making it free to play as long as you purchased the game because after something like 14 years the player base had shrunk by a lot. Fast forward to Jan. 31st 2017 and WB shutdown all the AC servers. Sighting it too costly to keep them up and running. Fair enough. Games dead right?
Well, now there are server emulators, people still playing, and the community is steady with small growth spurts. Servers aren't monetized. Point is, if your live service game is dying/dead, you aren't making any money off it anyway to justify keeping the game running. Which means, even if there are private servers, how much could they possibly monetize an already dead game that wasn't worth the cost of running anyway? Thor's claims of monetization are laughable if you're already killing the game because there's no more money to be made.
As for his, bad guys are going to purposely attack the game/studio until it dies to make private servers for monetization reasons is BS. How many WoW private servers are there currently, how many of them charge money, and was Blizzard bot and exploit attacked for those servers to exist? Amazingly, Blizzard listened to players and spun up old classic servers that people were wanting. Thor's arguments do not align with what actually happens in the real world.
Great video. Yeah I'm kinda baffled by his take too, but the silver lining about him talking about is that now many more people know about the initiative.
P.S. Hope that boss didn't give you much more trouble.
I will beat him eventually
Once a fed always a fed I guess if any of this is true
Something I feel is somewhat important to add: If the implementation of pro-consumer regulation kills something, that something shouldn't have been alive in the first place.
Yea that’s something people don’t understand.
The whole point of regulation is to remove bad things.
I always told people if he was a cyber security agent for the government; Agents never relinquish their status just like that. Hes a plant investigating all these streaming platforms
9:10 Honestly I’d be pretty interested in a game mode of Apex where it’s just a 1v1 on a massive map, slowly shrinking. Where you have to gather what you can to prepare for the showdown at the end. That would be pretty cool.
But also overwhelming boring 30 min of prep for 1 minute of fight
@@thatdudnum67potatoe45 doesn’t have to be empty. Could be npc enemies on the map that you fight to gain better resources. Like Tarkov or Dark and Darker.
The dude literally stole someone's art and profited from it.
He sacked an avatar creator in second life and kept all their creations and wouldn't give them back.
Idk why hes worried about supporting a game after it dies when his game hasn't even released after 6+ years 😂
this aged like wine!
the funniest thing are his nonsensical drawings. He's drawing just a bunch of random boxes and arrows to appear like he's explaining some smart concept
I thought he was drawing a city with roads and buildings at first
I love how he destroys his owmn arguments xD
Bro pulled the biggest strawman he could come up with and acted like a known it all
Me and the boys making a bot cartel, just waiting for this law to get passed so we can force to shut down live service games and monetize our own servers.😈
Finaly someone says it he defends scam games, or games that are bad to the customer. He defends games that insult their player base and ruin established lore, he also abuses report systems whenever he gets slightly upset
If you change out every instance where Thor says "developer" to "publisher", it'll make a lot more sense. Because ACTUAL developers already don't decide any of this stuff. Most of the decisions come from up top, and developers just work a 9 to 5 where they code things on their little "To Do" lists, given to them by management. What's it matter if they code it in a way where people will be able to keep playing instead of the very strict specifications of anti-consumer mechanics (DRM, online only, etc). The former is easier too...
Exactly
This comment was written, so it will boost the youtube's algorithm.
he's from blizzard. his daddy is from blizzard. im not shocked
All of a sudden his defense of assassin’s creed: yakub edition makes perfect sense. At the time I thought it was weird that this a alleged gamer guy had such a cookie cutter, industry-glazing take.
Look at his concord defense “it looks good” 😂
that boy a'int right
Bro was ahead of the curve with this one.
I like when him draw funny little shapes, him make caveman understand
Not to mention private servers can try out things that the company may be scared to try and if it works then the company can adopt what those private servers did to give a wider audience a better game.
Y'know, one game I think of when people talk private servers is actually the first Final Fantasy MMO, FF11. That game is currently a much different game than it was all those years ago, and private servers allow people to relive their nostalgia days.
Meanwhile this guy wants to dominate a whole server in ashes of creation with his guild and massively fails doing it and actually roaching out.
Same happened in EVE. Dude had a guild and used an exploit to get a certain ammount of power. After the devs patched this exploit he said the devs a conspirate against him. Leading to Pirate abandone the game and trash talks it.
It's gratifying for those of us who thought Thor was a douche canoe be proven right.
Came here to shit on Thor :)
Dude this is nuts. He literally came out of nowhere and with just a massive following, had zero "dirt" on him. it was weird. Crazy to see someone else called this out 5 months ago, before I had even seen PirateSoftware. I constantly heard Katt Williams in my head... " What do you think a plant *is* ?"
This "developer" spends more time in paint than actually complete his game
:D he doesn't stream when he works at the game all the time
7+ years in development, peak player count of 121 5 years ago, current player count of 11
PS's example scenario is so stupid. The only way it would ever happen is if a company simultaneously created a super valuable IP that people en mass want to "steal", while also being unable to afford basic cybersecurity.
Ν Ο Μ Α Ν Α,
RUN RUN RUN
Imagine putting a thousand dollars into a game and having it taken away a year or two later.
“I’ll take it away within months” - Piratesoftware
Fortnite someday in the future.
I wouldn't really call him a plant, but most of his background stories are complete fabrications. Just listening to him talk about infosec sets off my bullshit detector. He just comes off as a narcissist making shit up for attention.
Thor has a massive ego, to the point where it's a problem. He has some skill, but has become unshakably convinced that he's the very best, like no one ever was.
What's more, he makes the classic mistake of believing since he's the best at one thing (when actually he isn't even that), that he's the best at all kinds of things, as though his skills generalize to all situations.
It's sad how much more bearable he would be with just a little bit of humility. But instead, he needs to feel *better than you* - and he doesn't seem to care how his actions affect others.
As others have said, it's funny in a depressing way that he calls himself Pirate Software while doing all this. It's as though he's convinced his aesthetics matter more than the substance of what he does.
We don’t rotate around the sun, the sun rotate around Thors ego
PirateSoftware will defend the industry over consumers at every single turn.
It's funny how nobody was allowed to dislike him until he made an oopsie in WoW.
100% agreed he is. I cant say what company i currently work at but i am 35+ and have worked in the industry since i was 14 and got my beginning as a QA tester,things were so different back then. Went to school through a company initiative and got my degree. NO dev that i have met agrees with what he said at all. Even my coworkers all think he is being bought off and pushing corporate agendas. It stands to reason so too since he has been given access to alot of IP software that he has no business having access too. 100% he is a shill that is coming from someone who is in the industry.
BULLSEYE. Thor has been made director of strategy on a publisher that is about to release an online only live service game. How convenient he forgot to mention possible conflicts of interests in both his videos, and is plain refusing to discuss with Ross.
He is NOT arguing in good faith.
Thor pretending that we haven't had private server files since 1993 with DOOM. Hell with some fan patches I can still load up an online game of Battlefield 1942 which is 22 years old at this point. Private servers for mmo's have existed for decades at this point and run just fine, and that required reverse engineering, providing server files at death would only make that easier so Thor talking like it's some barrier is completely stupid.
On the point of private servers I think that's something we'd have to compromise on with the initiative, I suspect companies will respond that they should have exclusive rights to the playerbase while they're supporting the game. I personally think that'd be a loss but it's a fair compromise I suppose.They definitely demonstrate the desire for older builds of games and they should take that into account while they're supporting the game. Kudos to Daybreak for giving Project 99 their official blessing.
Even consoles like the PS2 have private servers. You can play an online multiplier game on the PS2 right now, so even an excuse for consoles is irrelevant.
I have to say...as time goes on I feel more and more negatively towards Thor. He definitely leans into the 'I'm on your side' shtick, but I feel like has an increasingly condescending attitude when people disagree with him, and uses the age old tactic of initiating passive-aggressive pile-ons from his community, but he does it in a very clever way where he never looks bad. He's pretty much untouchable in the streaming space. I get that he's a game dev, so that's always going to be a thing with him, but he definitely is not on the side of the consumer. Another thing he seems to be doing more is inserting himself into culture war stuff. I liked him initially because he seemed totally against all that BS, but like they all do, they have to be seen to be saying the right thing to upkeep their credit score.
Yea it’s hard to even watch the man sometimes, he can decide if he want to be a good person that day or not
Thors' takes are either entirely misinformed or lies and bad faith arguments. Given that he is so unwilling to have an actual discussion/debate about it, Im more inclined to believe the latter.