Thanks! Great demo as always. I especially appreciate your comments at the end comparing the two amps. Some of what you said I could pick out from the demo audio, but some of it I wouldn’t have known without hearing your analysis. Great job.
Great demo, Perk! It reminds me of when I got a low watt tweed style amp and loved the lower volume breakup but when playing clean-ish next to someone with a bigger Fender it was just outclassed. Great reason to have one of each!
Hi Joe :-) when you spoke about the upper mids on the two amps, and that sponginess you were feeling in the EL84 amp; those differences are in part due to the 18 watt being a no negative feedback circuit, whereas the JTM45 typically has a 27k resistor feeding signal back into the circuit ... that's a contributing factor to the differences in both the feel and eq/presence ... great great content as always... Well done !!
The 18watter has a boxier sound that reminds me of the Tube Screamer tone. I would assume it has to do with the tone knob vs the full EQ stack on the JTM clone. Both sound very good though. For my personal tastes I would probably use an EQ pedal with the 18 to see if I could tame the mids and add some presence it seems to be missing.
@@JoePerkinsMusic yes, but do you realistically need lot of toneshapeing on the 18watter? If you can run it loud enough, it do all the tones one need from good guitar and player.
@@stanislavmigra Well no, not necessarily - depends how much control you want/need over the EQ, at the end of the day! Both circuits sound ace, just in different ways.
@@stanislavmigra the mids don't need taming, if you want a fender get a fender and there is no lack of presence. this amp has no negative feedback for a reason, and adding one will 100% ruin this very special amp's response. i have this amp and ive even swapped the preamp tubes (to nos mullard i63's) in order to get less highs and add low mids, ive also added the matching extension cab which improved the tone dramatically. all this "advise" without actually playing the amp is funny, you are fixing problems that don't exist. good luck
That was an excellent presentation. I know how much work this was to do, so thank you. You convinced me to add a Bright cap to my personal 1974! I might try a discrete switch to bring in some Negative Feedback.
That’s a great comparison ! The El84 one is spongier in the overdrive and the JTM one have more clarity and more balls ! Even throught my phone hp, I can feel it. I really do prefer the JTM 45 even if I’m playing on an Orange OR15 which is El84 powered. In any way the base is the same on both amps. The Humbuckers on the SG won the "fight" for me. I’dlike to ear it with the LesPaul for ear if the mids are going out more. Your vidéos are always full of interest, Keep on !! And thank you !
As a super bourgeois 1962HW owner this really provides the confirmation bias that it is simply the greatest amp ever. It just sounds so much more open. Jumping those channels would blow the 18 watter away I'm afraid.
On the clean setting the 18 watts was the winner for me. It lacks the glassy quality of the JTM45 but it has a warmish/rounded tone that i really enjoyed On the Crunch setting it's a tough battle because the character of the two amps is really different. Like someone already said in the comments, the 18 watts as a "boxier sound", which is not the term that i would use. To me it's more focused. The JTM45 is really open sounding. On this setting i think a combination of the two is the winner. On 10, they were more similar than i expected BUT still, the 18 watts as a more focused tone. No clear winner for me here. Regarding the main question, is the 1974 a "baby bluesbreaker"? i would say NO, it's a Marshall (because it still sounds like one) but from a different father/mother.
Great summary Enrico :-) The 18W definitely has that Vox-type boxiness (Voxy-Boxy? hah) which the JTM doesn't. But yeah, both great amps...though the JTM is still my favourite!
The 18 Watter had a compression that was immediately obvious which i suppose is the point of lower watt amps . To give you Compression at lower volume where a high powered amp would have to be stupid loud to get th3 same compression. I just can't love the El84 tone . I have tried. For low power amps It's 6V6 all day for more taste. I can't bond wirh EL34 in amps under 40 watts either .it just never sounds quite right to me. They strike my ears as kind of bland . The only low power EL34 I have really liked is the Marshall studio vintage but it's too loud when cranked up to get the goods out of it . I had an origin 20 a DSl 20 and a,studio jubilee got rid of them All . I suspect the 20 watt EL34 amp thing is mostly a marketing thing as many believe only El34s will give grail tone of the God's EL34 has a psychological effect on alot of tone seekers EL34 Sits right up there with terms like Pre Rola Celestion or Pulsonic cone celestions Gibson PAF Celestion Greenback . Honduran mahagony Brazilian Rosewood 59 Les Paul 58 flying V and explorer
I have a 1974x reissue & I think you captured the sound & vibe really well. It does have a boxy midrange to it with some guitars, which I put a G12H30 in to counteract & give it some “scoop.” The relationship between the mids and the highs does remind me of an AC15: flat mids and some sizzle on top. Though the 1974x tremolo channel has more aggressive upper mids and is more Marshall-y IMO. I’m curious to try an 18w type of amp with TMB tone stack someday and see if I like that better - Germino Masonette is on my list!
I think it's probably an EL84 thing, at least in part - Voxes, etc, have always had that thick lower midrange 'thing' going on, for me. The TMB side of this amp (not used in this video) definitely lets you dial it in to sound more 'Marshally' - a good mod to have access to. :-)
How could you install the G12H speaker. I have the 1974x and once wanted to install the G12H, but it didn‘t had enough space. If U cld give me that magic formula, it wld make me very happy! Cheers
I love my EL84 amps, but I do always feel like they sound a bit like they have a head cold. Overall character here very similar but the 18W sounds a bit stuffed up. Thanks for doing this!
They sounded remarkably similar to me here, more than I remembered but I'm sure it was more pronounced in the room. I used to own a clone of the 1974x (sadly stolen) and that was my observation that it was a bit more grainy more Voxy and lacked the punch and glassiness of a JTM45. After it was stolen I thought about building a JTM to replace it but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Pretty big difference to my ears. BTW I also liked your "loudest amp" vid - I have a Carslbro 50TOP reissue (2 huge transformers, 2 EL34 and 2 12AX7). Just stupid loud clean amp!
The fairest comparison would have been builds of the two amps with the same preamp circuit but different power sections. I myself am a serious JTM45 head, but I do wonder what the 18w could accomplish with all the preamp complexities/controls that the 45 has. Eventually if my addiction doesn't get cured I'll likely build the 18w 45 version.
I have an original 18 watter, a model 1958 (2x10” Celestion ceramics, kinda/sorta mini-Greenbacks) from 1967. To my ears it sounds closer to an old Vox AC15 than to a JTM45. Like the Marshall the AC15 has two channels, one with tremolo, and a simple treble rolloff tone circuit. The Vox has a somewhat thicker midrange and more bass in its Normal channel. The Marshall has more preamp gain…you can crank it up without annoying your neighbors (assuming you live in a house, that is). The Vox uses a more efficient phase inverter design, resulting in more clean headroom, while the Marshall really *wants* to break up. ☺️ The Marshall is light on low end and so records really well, staying out of the way of your bassist. As a gigging amp…uh, no. Not enough headroom, and volume-wise it maxes out around halfway on the volume knob, then just gets dirtier. But its breakup is lovely, very much like your clone’s but with maybe a bit more treble bite.
18 watt marshalls are cool little monsters im thinking of selling some of my heads 800 900 jcm 2000 dsl's and finding a clean origional 18w marshall they are on reverb etc from time to time and take to my tech for checkup restore etc love youre show and marshalls to since 73 . jerry
Is it just me or does the 1974x feel very AC30 ish? No negative feedback, ECC83 pre amp tubes, El84 power tubes, very similar specs. Sounds very similar to the ac30 with Alnico Blues.
The JTM sounded like the guitar was meant to sound and the Baby added too much color to the tone. In a studio, an engineer would go with the JTM every time. If this makes any sense the JTM let the guitar breathe.
Just confirms what I already thought - no way can the 18W give you what the big beast can. With the channels jumped I guess it's all over. I have been reluctant to buy the 1962 but if I get the smaller amp I will never be happy. thanks
No, but still a great amp. The incredible presence and feeling of air moving in the room of a JTM45 seems impossible to record, so the video wouldn’t show that difference.
Amazing that someone finally desmystifying the ignorance-based “baby bluesbreaker” name over an amp that have nothing to do with a bluesbreaker, a proff that many guitarist listen with the eyes and brands, the 1974 and the Bluesbreaker cannot be more different come on! Just circuit wise they are worlds apart…soundwise universes apart…but their outside appearance is very alike to trick guitarist minds…JTM45 have a more spongier compressed attack boomy lows with more defined and warm overdrive, the 18watt is punchier and brasher on the overdrive as it hits the El 84 particularly hard and have this chime that can sound abbrasive on dimed settings but clean have that unique chime, circuit wise there no comparison, the only similarity might be the long tail phase inverter with different values either way, going technically the cathode follower, choke and fixed bias beam tetrode of the JTM45 make a fuller more refined and warmer sounding amp, the 18watt is raw and wild with its cathode bias and super hot phase inverter 470k grid leaks that make that unique drive that none other EL84 amp have, great review!
both amps will sound better with nos tubes. a mullard i63 for the 18w and an i61 for the jtm. i have the 1974x (2005)with the matching cab all tubes are 60's mullards ,sounds great but the jtm is better
Thanks! Great demo as always. I especially appreciate your comments at the end comparing the two amps. Some of what you said I could pick out from the demo audio, but some of it I wouldn’t have known without hearing your analysis. Great job.
Great demo, Perk! It reminds me of when I got a low watt tweed style amp and loved the lower volume breakup but when playing clean-ish next to someone with a bigger Fender it was just outclassed. Great reason to have one of each!
One of each is definitely the correct answer ;-) heh
Hi Joe :-) when you spoke about the upper mids on the two amps, and that sponginess you were feeling in the EL84 amp; those differences are in part due to the 18 watt being a no negative feedback circuit, whereas the JTM45 typically has a 27k resistor feeding signal back into the circuit ... that's a contributing factor to the differences in both the feel and eq/presence ... great great content as always... Well done !!
Yep, definitely...very different amps in general, but the negative feedback will definitely be playing into it :-) Thanks Mark!
You had the JTM45 slightly scooped but they sound very close. I love my 1974X
The 18watter has a boxier sound that reminds me of the Tube Screamer tone. I would assume it has to do with the tone knob vs the full EQ stack on the JTM clone. Both sound very good though. For my personal tastes I would probably use an EQ pedal with the 18 to see if I could tame the mids and add some presence it seems to be missing.
very popular and simple mod is to add variable negative feedback, that will tame the amp a bit and give it fuller ballsier sound.
The tone shaping on the standard 18W circuit is certainly a lot more limited
@@JoePerkinsMusic yes, but do you realistically need lot of toneshapeing on the 18watter? If you can run it loud enough, it do all the tones one need from good guitar and player.
@@stanislavmigra Well no, not necessarily - depends how much control you want/need over the EQ, at the end of the day! Both circuits sound ace, just in different ways.
@@stanislavmigra the mids don't need taming, if you want a fender get a fender and there is no lack of presence. this amp has no negative feedback for a reason, and adding one will 100% ruin this very special amp's response. i have this amp and ive even swapped the preamp tubes (to nos mullard i63's) in order to get less highs and add low mids, ive also added the matching extension cab which improved the tone dramatically. all this "advise" without actually playing the amp is funny, you are fixing problems that don't exist. good luck
That was an excellent presentation. I know how much work this was to do, so thank you. You convinced me to add a Bright cap to my personal 1974! I might try a discrete switch to bring in some Negative Feedback.
That’s a great comparison !
The El84 one is spongier in the overdrive and the JTM one have more clarity and more balls ! Even throught my phone hp, I can feel it.
I really do prefer the JTM 45 even if I’m playing on an Orange OR15 which is El84 powered.
In any way the base is the same on both amps.
The Humbuckers on the SG won the "fight" for me. I’dlike to ear it with the LesPaul for ear if the mids are going out more.
Your vidéos are always full of interest,
Keep on !! And thank you !
Thanks Matthieu :-) Yep, the JTM definitely has a lot more power and grunt!
As a super bourgeois 1962HW owner this really provides the confirmation bias that it is simply the greatest amp ever. It just sounds so much more open. Jumping those channels would blow the 18 watter away I'm afraid.
Why are you afraid? ;-) hah
On the clean setting the 18 watts was the winner for me. It lacks the glassy quality of the JTM45 but it has a warmish/rounded tone that i really enjoyed
On the Crunch setting it's a tough battle because the character of the two amps is really different. Like someone already said in the comments, the 18 watts as a "boxier sound", which is not the term that i would use. To me it's more focused. The JTM45 is really open sounding. On this setting i think a combination of the two is the winner.
On 10, they were more similar than i expected BUT still, the 18 watts as a more focused tone. No clear winner for me here.
Regarding the main question, is the 1974 a "baby bluesbreaker"? i would say NO, it's a Marshall (because it still sounds like one) but from a different father/mother.
Great summary Enrico :-) The 18W definitely has that Vox-type boxiness (Voxy-Boxy? hah) which the JTM doesn't. But yeah, both great amps...though the JTM is still my favourite!
The 18 Watter had a compression that was immediately obvious which i suppose is the point of lower watt amps . To give you Compression at lower volume where a high powered amp would have to be stupid loud to get th3 same compression.
I just can't love the El84 tone . I have tried. For low power amps It's 6V6 all day for more taste. I can't bond wirh EL34 in amps under 40 watts either .it just never sounds quite right to me. They strike my ears as kind of bland . The only low power EL34 I have really liked is the Marshall studio vintage but it's too loud when cranked up to get the goods out of it . I had an origin 20 a DSl 20 and a,studio jubilee got rid of them All . I suspect the 20 watt EL34 amp thing is mostly a marketing thing as many believe only El34s will give grail tone of the God's
EL34 has a psychological effect on alot of tone seekers EL34 Sits right up there with terms like Pre Rola Celestion or Pulsonic cone celestions Gibson PAF Celestion Greenback .
Honduran mahagony Brazilian Rosewood 59 Les Paul 58 flying V and explorer
That blackguard really set off the 1974x.
Excellent comparison, thanks!
I have a 1974x reissue & I think you captured the sound & vibe really well. It does have a boxy midrange to it with some guitars, which I put a G12H30 in to counteract & give it some “scoop.” The relationship between the mids and the highs does remind me of an AC15: flat mids and some sizzle on top. Though the 1974x tremolo channel has more aggressive upper mids and is more Marshall-y IMO. I’m curious to try an 18w type of amp with TMB tone stack someday and see if I like that better - Germino Masonette is on my list!
I think it's probably an EL84 thing, at least in part - Voxes, etc, have always had that thick lower midrange 'thing' going on, for me. The TMB side of this amp (not used in this video) definitely lets you dial it in to sound more 'Marshally' - a good mod to have access to. :-)
I have a 1974x. I tried to install a G12H30, but I couldn‘t because of the Heavier and larger not. I‘m wondering how you made it? Cheers
How could you install the G12H speaker. I have the 1974x and once wanted to install the G12H, but it didn‘t had enough space. If U cld give me that magic formula, it wld make me very happy! Cheers
I love my EL84 amps, but I do always feel like they sound a bit like they have a head cold. Overall character here very similar but the 18W sounds a bit stuffed up. Thanks for doing this!
They sounded remarkably similar to me here, more than I remembered but I'm sure it was more pronounced in the room. I used to own a clone of the 1974x (sadly stolen) and that was my observation that it was a bit more grainy more Voxy and lacked the punch and glassiness of a JTM45. After it was stolen I thought about building a JTM to replace it but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Please, what is the title to the music at 10:06 ?
I love both! 😁
Great video. Thanks.
BTW, what speaker/cab did you use on the JTM?
Both amps were running through the same cabinet - a Zilla Studio Pro 2x12 loaded with a Scumback S75-PVC AlNiCo and a Celestion AlNiCo Gold. :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Thank you, Joe!! 👍🏼
Pretty big difference to my ears. BTW I also liked your "loudest amp" vid - I have a Carslbro 50TOP reissue (2 huge transformers, 2 EL34 and 2 12AX7). Just stupid loud clean amp!
The fairest comparison would have been builds of the two amps with the same preamp circuit but different power sections. I myself am a serious JTM45 head, but I do wonder what the 18w could accomplish with all the preamp complexities/controls that the 45 has. Eventually if my addiction doesn't get cured I'll likely build the 18w 45 version.
I have an original 18 watter, a model 1958 (2x10” Celestion ceramics, kinda/sorta mini-Greenbacks) from 1967. To my ears it sounds closer to an old Vox AC15 than to a JTM45.
Like the Marshall the AC15 has two channels, one with tremolo, and a simple treble rolloff tone circuit. The Vox has a somewhat thicker midrange and more bass in its Normal channel. The Marshall has more preamp gain…you can crank it up without annoying your neighbors (assuming you live in a house, that is).
The Vox uses a more efficient phase inverter design, resulting in more clean headroom, while the Marshall really *wants* to break up. ☺️
The Marshall is light on low end and so records really well, staying out of the way of your bassist. As a gigging amp…uh, no. Not enough headroom, and volume-wise it maxes out around halfway on the volume knob, then just gets dirtier. But its breakup is lovely, very much like your clone’s but with maybe a bit more treble bite.
18 watt marshalls are cool little monsters im thinking of selling some of my heads 800 900 jcm 2000 dsl's and finding a clean origional 18w marshall they are on reverb etc from time to time and take to my tech for checkup restore etc love youre show and marshalls to since 73 . jerry
Love 'em both, but, I adore a cranked-up/modified(transformers/tubes)18-watter !!
Great video. You do look kinda like a super villain.
Do you still have dpdr
Best use this channel for that: th-cam.com/users/DPDDiaries
Is it just me or does the 1974x feel very AC30 ish? No negative feedback, ECC83 pre amp tubes, El84 power tubes, very similar specs. Sounds very similar to the ac30 with Alnico Blues.
Great amp show off- I really preferred the JTM-45 clone…. But as usual, the Junior won over all. Such a great guitar.
Aha, the Junior always surprises me when I hear the audio back...really stands out!
The JTM sounded like the guitar was meant to sound and the Baby added too much color to the tone. In a studio, an engineer would go with the JTM every time. If this makes any sense the JTM let the guitar breathe.
Don't really mess with these types of amps typically. The JTM45 sounded better to me and had more precise tone control.
I need to do a similar comparison with my Bluesbreaker and my JTM45/100.
Send it over if you shoot it! :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic I need to stop being lazy and record it. I know which one I prefer already though.....:)
Aha - to be fair, I knew before I shot this one too! ;-)
Next comparison, JTM 45 vs. Tweed Bassman through a 4x12 cab? 😁😶
I'd need a Tweed Bassman for that ;-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Ahh, reality sneaks in it's nasty head! 😂 Ah, se la vie!
Just confirms what I already thought - no way can the 18W give you what the big beast can. With the channels jumped I guess it's all over. I have been reluctant to buy the 1962 but if I get the smaller amp I will never be happy. thanks
For me with Single coils, the 18 watt wins, especially in a mix with a band I think this amp will cut through. Humbucker I prefer the JTM
You rock kind sir!
I liked both, but the 18w is more tame able. Just put a Keeley compressor in front of it..
My 1966 JTM50t swings 56 watts on my test equipment
Do it again but run the JTM45 through 1 speaker only, a higher rated greenback then we can get a better idea.
Won't be doing this again, I'm afraid
No, but still a great amp. The incredible presence and feeling of air moving in the room of a JTM45 seems impossible to record, so the video wouldn’t show that difference.
The JTM definitely has a lot more _oomph_ behind it (technical term!)
Amazing that someone finally desmystifying the ignorance-based “baby bluesbreaker” name over an amp that have nothing to do with a bluesbreaker, a proff that many guitarist listen with the eyes and brands, the 1974 and the Bluesbreaker cannot be more different come on! Just circuit wise they are worlds apart…soundwise universes apart…but their outside appearance is very alike to trick guitarist minds…JTM45 have a more spongier compressed attack boomy lows with more defined and warm overdrive, the 18watt is punchier and brasher on the overdrive as it hits the El 84 particularly hard and have this chime that can sound abbrasive on dimed settings but clean have that unique chime, circuit wise there no comparison, the only similarity might be the long tail phase inverter with different values either way, going technically the cathode follower, choke and fixed bias beam tetrode of the JTM45 make a fuller more refined and warmer sounding amp, the 18watt is raw and wild with its cathode bias and super hot phase inverter 470k grid leaks that make that unique drive that none other EL84 amp have, great review!
both amps will sound better with nos tubes. a mullard i63 for the 18w and an i61 for the jtm.
i have the 1974x (2005)with the matching cab all tubes are 60's mullards ,sounds great but the jtm is better
The frenetic hand gesturing both pre and post sound comparisons is wholly unacceptable. Bang out of order.
Very helpful sound comparisons though.
Skip those bits then.
Your neighbors must hate you 🤣🤣
I'm not on their Christmas card list :P
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@@JoePerkinsMusicfellow lefty here....your Les Paul Junior, did it come with that intonated bridge? Looking for one for mine