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@@SaraMorgan-ym6ueIf only there were a way to find out. Like if they made a video with the conclusion baked into it. People would be able to watch all the way to the end and find things out. Wouldn't that be great? 🤦♂️
I think now we need a set of pistons made from the wood that has been treated and pressurized like the wood on Nile Reds channel where he used a solution to remove the cellulose and lignin in the fibers and then it was compressed to make a wood that is nearly bulletproof. That would be an interesting test for sure!
yes that could also work, but it is hard to make and not very easy to get hands on, but there are a view wood species out there, that are allmost fireproof, at least for a short time.
@jamesMwebber That's a great idea, they should use some ultra-dense wood, and maybe a layer of asbestos on top, instead of metal. I'm thinking one of those asbestos shingles cut into a circle and glued to the top of the piston. It would help to protect the wood from the intense heat.
You should try making the pistons out of harder wood like Brazilian Walnut or ironwood. There's another TH-cam channel called Project Farm who experimented with making lawn mower engine cylinder heads out of wood several years ago. They tried using plywood first which only ran for about 10 seconds but later used Brazilian walnut and which lasted over 2 minutes.
Dam you have answered a question I have had for years. I heard a myth that a farmer made a wooden piston. I've always called bluff. This has answered the whole questions. You guys are such legends.
I love how humble and down to earth you guys are, despite being internet famous! I still occasionally see y'all mentioned on car forums, etc. One of my favorite TH-cam channels of all time! Best wishes from America 👋😄👍
¨African blackwood¨?! You racist bastard. Just kidding dude. Yeah, it would be cool to see how much better ebony would do but it probably would not be too much better.
Lol....I love it!! I remember back in grade 7 (40 years ago!!!) We had wood shop for 1/2 semester and I wanted to build a wooden 2 stroke engine....and here it fire at least once...the shop teacher wouldnt let me build it lol...he said it was too big a project for a class of 11 year olds...he was right!! Now I get to see these guys make some wooden engine components....awesome!!
I think the biggest mechanical problem is moisture inside the wood, if its very dry and seasoned likely to work better as any moisture inside the wood when heated up in the furnace of an engine will expand and split the wood along grain fault lines.
Maybe try gluing layers of plywood together I think it would give it more strenght. On the pistons you guys made the grain was up and down and had no strenght. With plywood stuck horizontaly you would have grain going acrossat 90Degrees and it would be stronger and might work.
A small piece of ceramic tile bonded to the top should help the piston last longer. Also a thick hard single plastic piston rings, like the ones found in hydralic shafts I think will be better to hold the side wall punishment
I would love to see graphene mixed plastic as pistons, something like carbon fibre nylon or some other exotic high temp plastic then homogenised with 0.05% graphene powder.
Hey Vlad, Perhaps you didn't undersize the diameter enough to allow for the extreme thermal expansion wood has which would surely cause tremendous extra friction having it swell in the cylinders. Perhaps make a set thats so undersized it has practically zero compression when cold?
i learned one thing. i wanted, and got a bird feeder, made out of wood that was squirrel proof. i finally got it. it took a few different woods to make it work, but in the end, i just used seasoned hickory for the hexagon body. good exterior glue, and it's been a success for five years, with nary a bit of care hanging out my wood working shop window. the hickory is so hard, it dulls the squirrels teeth and they quit chewing. try some nice straight grain hickory, and you'll drive down the road with wooden pistons.
I reckon they just need to use temperature resistant glue to hold the steel sheet to the piston face, that way oxygen in the combustion gasses can't cause ignition of the piston face.
I wonder how well Australian hardwood "Jarrah" would work, its a very resilient material, they stopped making powerpoles from Jarrah, because it was totally destroying every car and truck that collided with it, and causing too many fatalities.
You should coat those pistons in polyurethane and sell them ,on a stand imprinted garage 54. Love your ideas and all you hard work. The best to you and yours .
Wow, what a educational video I didn't think you would get the results you did great job and thanks for keeping us entertained. Greetings from Melbourne Australia . Bruce.
Wood can be stronger by weight than steel or aluminium even composites like fiberglass and carbon fibre especially when used in laminate style sheets glued together.
The problem is the steel sheet on the piston doesn't stop oxygen from getting underneath it, where the heat causes ignition anyway. Perhaps a temperature resistant glue would be better, so piston face is totally sealed from combustion gasses? If you can find a coating that stops the hot gasses from touching the surface of the wood, I think it would run much longer. Otherwise find some way to remove the oxygen and the piston wont burn (so soon).
This is far more cool than I thought it would be!!! Amazing actually. Please try with different top coating. Ceramic, Metal whatever coating you can do on top and see if it actually helps.
In prl poland it was kinda popular, because there was time when mechanics don't have parts for car engine or want cut repair cost to earn more money. Ps: sorry for my english
I reckon they just need to use temperature resistant glue to hold the steel sheet to the piston face, that way oxygen in the combustion gasses can't cause ignition of the piston face. although reducing the temp is not a bad idea.
@@FuckGoogle502 The connecting rod is the strongest part in this engine. By stretching machine This connecting rod can withstand 150,000Nm before breaking.
Old-growth fine-grain Dark Brazilian Rosewood would work great, I have a pipe I made over 40 years ago and smoke out of it every day , it does have some damage but it still holds up , Ironwood would work well also for temporary pistons , you need hardwood or petrified wood .
Thing is, your tobacco burns at around 400-900 degrees Celcius, while the gasoline burns at around 1950C, plus it's under pressure in the engine, adding more heat. Wood just can't take the heat.
@@FuckGoogle502 so what's your point they knows this and yet they are still trying it cause it's fun fun fun the thing is 100 year old oak might last a few minutes longer due to being 100 year old oak and harder then your nipples on a cold day baby🤣
Hey Vlad, nice job!! Maybe I have a couple ideas for you. I thought maybe try a wood we have here in Florida in the US. This wood is so hard it tears my chainsaw teeth up with just a touch, it's called ironwood. Keep up the great "experiments" I really enjoy you and the men's curiosity.
I'd be interested to see this same test with a thicker metal top- maybe 3-5mm, and maybe a less conductive metal- not sure what to choose though, I'm not so good with my metal conductivity knowledge.
Very amusing video as always. I was really curious to see what will happen to the wooden pistons as a carpenter myself. Good job guys 👏. Greetings from Greece brothers!!!
Try using lead or zinc hi temp mixed glass and porcelain pistons. Experiment with a mold of the original piston and test it Glass windows is a used in wood stoves that stands the hi heat that can work for years but in the piston as thick as it would be it can be a 100 in this case....many skylines that use zinc fused glass stand strong by the winds and weather conditions at 150 floors with the flexibility of the buildings. A glass piston and also make porcelain pistons to see what piston is better running. A solid piston in zinc fused can be a remedy for experimental effect
I’m convinced that you could throw anything at a Lada, and still run on their next experiment without any issues!👌😎👍I enjoy watching this crazy guy’s doing crazy experiments!👋😂👍
It might work with harder wood and a thicker metal on the cylinder but the screws and the metal should be glued with 2 components so that they don't fall out
TH-cam channel Nilered made super strong wood by removing most of the stuff in it except the lignin by soaking it in acid then compressing it in a press to make it denser. Some sort of heat resistant coating over that may make it more than sufficient for a lightweight strong piston.
years ago my friend worked at a garage, long story short, a v8 range rover come in with a misfire, the guy only had it a month, compression was low on one of the pots, he took the head off and there was a wooden piston in there.......... true story , first thing i said was does it come with a 4 branch manifold...
there are a view allmost fireproof wood species out there, they are very hard and very dense. like ebony wood, grenadil, buloak, rosewood and more. heather wood burls are used to make smoking pipes, maybe pistons made from that would last much longer. you should give it a try 🙂 i bet you could drive a short distance with them.
I really wonder if you coated the pistons in something to help them from burning off … still cool seeing how strong the wood is even if it only just starts 😂
This channel is awesome....but hey do a video and see if you make the lada engine run backwards the exhaust will be the intake and the carburetor will be the exhaust
Birch is a "medium" hardwood. try something like "lignum vitae", widely used in water-lubricated shaft bearings for ships and hydro-electric power plants and in the stern-tube bearings of ship propeller shafts until the 1960s saw the introduction of sealed white metal bearings.
I remember hearing stories about people using pieces of a leather belt in place of crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. I would assume they were referencing old engines with poured Babbitt bearings.
@Garage 54 You guys rule!!!🤩 Can you please rebuild a motor to run on 7 cylinder and make it s i n g ?? It has a very distinctive, special sound, nothing like the 2, 3 4 or 5 cylinder. It has some rerminders of a 5 cylinder, but sounds nothing like it! People say it's impossible to make it work, but if anyone can prove it's possible, it should be you guys! Cut up two, weld, put together a long bespoke shaft with balance and custom timing for each bank and you know the rest!
You could look at phenolic sheets. It is pretty common and comes in different types. It is very dense and available. It appears to good up to 270 degrees f.
Apart being mechanical engineers,the group has creative and talented people too! Crafting those pistons came out looking beautiful pieces of craftsmanship. Too sad they were used :(
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I love fishing and might give it a go 👍💚💛❤️
🐟
Wooden pistons add a metal top like stainless or brass... ?
you guys need to get your hands on some good Ironwood species
Try a stone pistons
These guys deserve so much more credit, reminds me of scrap heap challenge back in the day, everything works when we work together
damn I forgot that show even existed, I watched it when I was little
Looks like I know what I'm watching after watching this haha
Is that the same as Junkyard Wars? I liked that show, and wish there was more episodes.
@@fryloc359yes, more or less the same concept, building something off the scrapyard
yeah we're all on the same page bro. Great channel
My favorite part is always the back and forth interaction between Vlad and Sergei and the lighthearted nature of the fun they have.
hmm wonder how long those wood pistons would last before failing due to heat damage🤔
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue you look to end there is answer, some starts then not ok.
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ueIf only there were a way to find out. Like if they made a video with the conclusion baked into it. People would be able to watch all the way to the end and find things out.
Wouldn't that be great? 🤦♂️
@@MadScientist267😂what a great idea, start a TH-cam channel!
I think now we need a set of pistons made from the wood that has been treated and pressurized like the wood on Nile Reds channel where he used a solution to remove the cellulose and lignin in the fibers and then it was compressed to make a wood that is nearly bulletproof. That would be an interesting test for sure!
yes that could also work, but it is hard to make and not very easy to get hands on, but there are a view wood species out there, that are allmost fireproof, at least for a short time.
@@WildStyleWorksyes, like Black Walnut.
Takes a LOT to get that stuff to burn!
@jamesMwebber That's a great idea, they should use some ultra-dense wood, and maybe a layer of asbestos on top, instead of metal. I'm thinking one of those asbestos shingles cut into a circle and glued to the top of the piston. It would help to protect the wood from the intense heat.
I was just gonna say this.
Or atleast use that to top the pistol
The best car channel that’s constantly being throttle down by TH-cam.
Sincerely asking, how ?
@@tonyp9179 It's an easy topic to research yourself.
probably because they are russian
@@tcmtech7515 great answer
These are the best men in the world 😊
Use "iron wood", or Purple heart wood. It's strong enough to dull saw blades when cutting it.
Quebracho
You should try making the pistons out of harder wood like Brazilian Walnut or ironwood. There's another TH-cam channel called Project Farm who experimented with making lawn mower engine cylinder heads out of wood several years ago. They tried using plywood first which only ran for about 10 seconds but later used Brazilian walnut and which lasted over 2 minutes.
My thoughts exactly! It could work.
Dam you have answered a question I have had for years. I heard a myth that a farmer made a wooden piston. I've always called bluff. This has answered the whole questions. You guys are such legends.
Salutes from the Great State of Texas. After being a auto tech for more than 20 years I enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the great work.
I love how humble and down to earth you guys are, despite being internet famous! I still occasionally see y'all mentioned on car forums, etc. One of my favorite TH-cam channels of all time! Best wishes from America 👋😄👍
Here here from 🇨🇦🇨🇦!! I second that!!
Using an end mill as a machining centre love it. 😂
You should try using wood used for smoking pipes. Briar, Cherry, Olive, Pear, Elder, Maple or White Ash.
there's a really tough wood used for mallets I think it's called African blackwood. if it's available I bet that would work for a piston.
I think it's oak oak is a very hard wood and it only gets harder with age
¨African blackwood¨?! You racist bastard. Just kidding dude. Yeah, it would be cool to see how much better ebony would do but it probably would not be too much better.
Larch is also known for its solidity.
@@StephanBuchin yeah a very dense wood would definitely last longer then the softwoods they are using for the pistons
Lol....I love it!! I remember back in grade 7 (40 years ago!!!) We had wood shop for 1/2 semester and I wanted to build a wooden 2 stroke engine....and here it fire at least once...the shop teacher wouldnt let me build it lol...he said it was too big a project for a class of 11 year olds...he was right!! Now I get to see these guys make some wooden engine components....awesome!!
I think the biggest mechanical problem is moisture inside the wood, if its very dry and seasoned likely to work better as any moisture inside the wood when heated up in the furnace of an engine will expand and split the wood along grain fault lines.
Putting a metal lid made of brass or stainless on top of the pistons would be interesting to see...
Totally lacks lubrication. I thought they were gonna mix oil with the gas
I hope they made a few extra just to put on a shelf! That is awesome work!! They look cool as heck!
Some ridiculously cool furniture could be made from wooden engine components and I agree!!! Those pistons are frikkin sexayyy lololol
Masters of imagination, determination, understatement and especially bravery.
Truly a joy to watch and learn.
You guys are Wizards with all the ways you make this stuff work. Great stuff.
Would love to see this done again with hardwood, like oak or buloke
Love it when you revisited the wooden pistons. I wonder if you could try different materials in a rotory engine.
To get it started and running for a little is a huge success. Fantastic.
Definitely the best vid yet. Ah and one point. Most woods glue far better under pressure like a G clamp.
Quite possibly learned more from this channel than I have from school.
Maybe try gluing layers of plywood together I think it would give it more strenght. On the pistons you guys made the grain was up and down and had no strenght. With plywood stuck horizontaly you would have grain going acrossat 90Degrees and it would be stronger and might work.
A small piece of ceramic tile bonded to the top should help the piston last longer. Also a thick hard single plastic piston rings, like the ones found in hydralic shafts I think will be better to hold the side wall punishment
Always following most of your episodes from Kenya.
Thanks for doing all those experiments on our behalf!
I would love to see graphene mixed plastic as pistons, something like carbon fibre nylon or some other exotic high temp plastic then homogenised with 0.05% graphene powder.
Hey Vlad, Perhaps you didn't undersize the diameter enough to allow for the extreme thermal expansion wood has which would surely cause tremendous extra friction having it swell in the cylinders. Perhaps make a set thats so undersized it has practically zero compression when cold?
i learned one thing. i wanted, and got a bird feeder, made out of wood that was squirrel proof. i finally got it. it took a few different woods to make it work, but in the end, i just used seasoned hickory for the hexagon body. good exterior glue, and it's been a success for five years, with nary a bit of care hanging out my wood working shop window. the hickory is so hard, it dulls the squirrels teeth and they quit chewing. try some nice straight grain hickory, and you'll drive down the road with wooden pistons.
Do you have any friends ?
Yeah some super hard wood like that would be interesting.
I reckon they just need to use temperature resistant glue to hold the steel sheet to the piston face, that way oxygen in the combustion gasses can't cause ignition of the piston face.
I wonder how well Australian hardwood "Jarrah" would work, its a very resilient material, they stopped making powerpoles from Jarrah, because it was totally destroying every car and truck that collided with it, and causing too many fatalities.
You should coat those pistons in polyurethane and sell them ,on a stand imprinted garage 54.
Love your ideas and all you hard work.
The best to you and yours .
Really cant understand how this channel is not way more popular.
Wow, what a educational video I didn't think you would get the results you did great job and thanks for keeping us entertained. Greetings from Melbourne Australia . Bruce.
Wood can be stronger by weight than steel or aluminium even composites like fiberglass and carbon fibre especially when used in laminate style sheets glued together.
this channel is excellent so underrated!
The problem is the steel sheet on the piston doesn't stop oxygen from getting underneath it, where the heat causes ignition anyway. Perhaps a temperature resistant glue would be better, so piston face is totally sealed from combustion gasses?
If you can find a coating that stops the hot gasses from touching the surface of the wood, I think it would run much longer. Otherwise find some way to remove the oxygen and the piston wont burn (so soon).
This is far more cool than I thought it would be!!! Amazing actually. Please try with different top coating. Ceramic, Metal whatever coating you can do on top and see if it actually helps.
I once made a motorcycle with plastic pistons, but that was made out of LEGO haha!
Interesting video.
You guys are nuts 😂
It's because of crazy stuff like this I keep coming back.
In prl poland it was kinda popular, because there was time when mechanics don't have parts for car engine or want cut repair cost to earn more money.
Ps: sorry for my english
Would be interesting to see if running the engine on something like kerosene or methonol that burns cooler would allow for the engine to run longer.
I reckon they just need to use temperature resistant glue to hold the steel sheet to the piston face, that way oxygen in the combustion gasses can't cause ignition of the piston face.
although reducing the temp is not a bad idea.
Russians: "We replaced the strongest part of the engine with wood, and it ran for like 17 seconds"
Everybody: "Awesome!"
This is why Russia always wins😊
Actually, the gudgeon pins are probably the strongest part.
@@FuckGoogle502 The connecting rod is the strongest part in this engine. By stretching machine This connecting rod can withstand 150,000Nm before breaking.
I love this channel !! I keep track og my week in sync with G54 posts !! :-)
This was fun as always you guys know how to down to earth fun it brings the best out of us you guys rock.
Old-growth fine-grain Dark Brazilian Rosewood would work great, I have a pipe I made over 40 years ago and smoke out of it every day , it does have some damage but it still holds up , Ironwood would work well also for temporary pistons , you need hardwood or petrified wood .
na 100 year old oak would be best
Thing is, your tobacco burns at around 400-900 degrees Celcius, while the gasoline burns at around 1950C, plus it's under pressure in the engine, adding more heat. Wood just can't take the heat.
@@FuckGoogle502 so what's your point they knows this and yet they are still trying it cause it's fun fun fun the thing is 100 year old oak might last a few minutes longer due to being 100 year old oak and harder then your nipples on a cold day baby🤣
Yay , you did it , got an engine running on wooden pistons , great job guys, love your channel and I love LADAs
Amazing that they got it to run! Pretty neat!
You need to spray the tops of the Wooden pistons with High temperature Spray paint from VHT I believe
Love you guys. You can make a start with anithing that comes to your heads amazing.
Hey Vlad, nice job!! Maybe I have a couple ideas for you. I thought maybe try a wood we have here in Florida in the US. This wood is so hard it tears my chainsaw teeth up with just a touch, it's called ironwood. Keep up the great "experiments" I really enjoy you and the men's curiosity.
I was just watching so many of your videos today. I'm so happy to watch a new upload!! Great work guys
What's impressive to me is that the wood didn't snap at the wrist pins. That's some hardwood!!!💪
Great channel, you must be producing some great mechanics there! Cheers J
It would be awesome to see if you guys can make the crankshaft made of aluminum along with pistons and rods. Maybe wooden rods if possible
I was thinking the same with making wood rods if possible. I'm curious to see how they would hold up
Yeah, and when the whole engine is made out of wood, move forward, to the gearbox... A wooden Lada - WooLa 🤣
I'd be interested to see this same test with a thicker metal top- maybe 3-5mm, and maybe a less conductive metal- not sure what to choose though, I'm not so good with my metal conductivity knowledge.
Very amusing video as always. I was really curious to see what will happen to the wooden pistons as a carpenter myself. Good job guys 👏.
Greetings from Greece brothers!!!
Have you ever tried replacing standard *sparkplug cables* with *telephone cable* or with *coaxial TV cable* in an Electronic Fuel Injection car?
Try using lead or zinc hi temp mixed glass and porcelain pistons. Experiment with a mold of the original piston and test it
Glass windows is a used in wood stoves that stands the hi heat that can work for years but in the piston as thick as it would be it can be a 100 in this case....many skylines that use zinc fused glass stand strong by the winds and weather conditions at 150 floors with the flexibility of the buildings.
A glass piston and also make porcelain pistons to see what piston is better running. A solid piston in zinc fused can be a remedy for experimental effect
great video. really enjoy the things at you guys do. so how about building a complete engine from wood.
I’m convinced that you could throw anything at a Lada, and still run on their next experiment without any issues!👌😎👍I enjoy watching this crazy guy’s doing crazy experiments!👋😂👍
Try glass fibre reinforced concrete pistons!!
I wonder if running the wooden pistons with woodgas would vulkanize enough tar from the woodgas on the pistons to increase compression a bit.
Great job, fellas. Glad you guys pulled it off this time
It might work with harder wood and a thicker metal on the cylinder but the screws and the metal should be glued with 2 components so that they don't fall out
This gives a whole new meaning to firing an engine up 🤣🤔👍💚💛❤️
but not for long🤣
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue 👍🤣🤣🤣
Try hi-stress concrete pistons next time
There Must be a Continue of the rubber piston rings video!
Where they actually kinda turned the engine into some kinda race engine!
Would be interesting to see cores of limestone used as pistons, or some other type of stone.
TH-cam channel Nilered made super strong wood by removing most of the stuff in it except the lignin by soaking it in acid then compressing it in a press to make it denser.
Some sort of heat resistant coating over that may make it more than sufficient for a lightweight strong piston.
years ago my friend worked at a garage, long story short, a v8 range rover come in with a misfire, the guy only had it a month, compression was low on one of the pots, he took the head off and there was a wooden piston in there.......... true story , first thing i said was does it come with a 4 branch manifold...
The best way to make the Pistons out of is morning wood
Suggestion: shorten the block height and rod lengths and piston height for a higher revving engine - 10,000rpm LADA?
there are a view allmost fireproof wood species out there, they are very hard and very dense. like ebony wood, grenadil, buloak, rosewood and more. heather wood burls are used to make smoking pipes, maybe pistons made from that would last much longer. you should give it a try 🙂 i bet you could drive a short distance with them.
This is #1 in america in my opinion! Love the videos never miss them
I really wonder if you coated the pistons in something to help them from burning off … still cool seeing how strong the wood is even if it only just starts 😂
Need to try Batu or Ipe wood, they are fire resistant in the Ironwood family. Might be a bit expensive but worth a shot.
Good effort guys, I heard the story of wood pistons, but apparently they used Iron Bark to make them.❤
Another super interesting video. Top work as always guys 👍👍👍
I'm curious how well an old worn out engine would run on gear / transmission oil. You guys conduct the most interesting experiments!
Pistons turned out of solid granite should last well ..but could be 'scratchy' to the cylinders ..unless granite liners are used ..hmm
This channel is awesome....but hey do a video and see if you make the lada engine run backwards the exhaust will be the intake and the carburetor will be the exhaust
The piston that doesn't look so bad at the end is probably the piston that wasn't firing at the beginning until the distributor was rotated a bit.
I would have tried coating the top of piston with liquid glass... Glass is supposed to handle pressure better than metal.
Marine plywood or Vacuum Resin stabilized wood would be interesting to see
I wonder if soaking the pistons in oil beforehand for a few hours would help with lubrication/cooling
Excellent results are the product of hard work and group effort.
McLaren engineers are taking notes.
Another masterpiece! Great job as always 👍
Absolutely amazing and impressive too.
Now try a set of pistons made from granite core samples
Fishing is wicked cool. 🎯
Birch is a "medium" hardwood.
try something like "lignum vitae", widely used in water-lubricated shaft bearings for ships and hydro-electric power plants and in the stern-tube bearings of ship propeller shafts until the 1960s saw the introduction of sealed white metal bearings.
I remember hearing stories about people using pieces of a leather belt in place of crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. I would assume they were referencing old engines with poured Babbitt bearings.
@Garage 54 You guys rule!!!🤩
Can you please rebuild a motor to run on 7 cylinder and make it s i n g ??
It has a very distinctive, special sound, nothing like the 2, 3 4 or 5 cylinder.
It has some rerminders of a 5 cylinder, but sounds nothing like it!
People say it's impossible to make it work, but if anyone can prove it's possible, it should be you guys!
Cut up two, weld, put together a long bespoke shaft with balance and custom timing for each bank and you know the rest!
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
Are they going to combine this with the transparent engine block?
You could look at phenolic sheets. It is pretty common and comes in different types. It is very dense and available. It appears to good up to 270 degrees f.
u should do copper or wooden piston rods it would break bc of compression but it would b cool to watch
Apart being mechanical engineers,the group has creative and talented people too!
Crafting those pistons came out looking beautiful pieces of craftsmanship.
Too sad they were used :(
The rubber rings is probably my favorite experiment because it always makes a return in future experiments.