Love me some shotgun wing t. But as someone who can broadly be called a "wing t guy" (not claiming to be authoritative, but I coach with someone who could be called that) I think you are really underselling the difficulty of training a wing-t qb. Teaching "the dance" of each series is not easy and it takes a ton of reps to really get good at running plays, before you even get to layer play action on to that. The critique of struggling when behind is totally founded, if you are a "Delaware manual" wing t team you really resign yourself to grinding whether you are ahead by 21 or behind by 21. Other variants can mitigate this somewhat, but then it becomes an economic question of how you practice your offense. I would say the biggest pro of the wing t is that it becomes a whole identity of toughness for your program. When your culture is right as a wing t team, your players just straight up buy into the "we can cram this ball down anyone's throat" and that bleeds into everything your team does on defense, special teams on the weightroom all of it. You have to remind kickers they are kickers sometimes. It's also a fun bit of contarian football these days. You would be stunned how many people just sort of forgot how to defend it. While the wing t is pretty diversified today witha lot of variation, the biggest downside is that many variants necessitate having a pretty large playbook, going back to the difficulty of training a QB. You don't just install a play, you install a series of plays, because you need to get that one motion set to go multiple ways to get the deception. This takes a fair bit of nuance to be good at play calling wise and a lot of teams that I have seen that switch to the wing t struggle here a ton and when you are already struggling on offense, this problem compounds on itself. It isn't really a just call a play offense. A perfect example is buck sweep. In shotgun wing t, you can pair buck to the FB with some rpos and be ok. In other variants Buck Sweep means you are also at a minimum installing guard trap, down, counter George and boot and that is before you get fancy. You can still run some rpos and run combos from under center, but it's just adding to the overhead on your qb. Often if you are making the choice to switch to the wing t from somewhere else, you probably don't have the dude you want to make those decisions. That toolbox gets real heavy real fast. One of the central tensions of the wing t is having answers vs getting the reps to master it. When you look at the really dominate wing t teams, they are the ones that figure out what they are good at and stick to it, when you are learning the wing t, you can fall into the trap of the waffle house menu real quick, I definitely did as a first year OC.
Coach, this is a freaking amazing comment and thank you so much for it. I totally agree with you on putting in to much. I can see it happening with everything I do when I'm researching the Wing-T. I want to install it all. Haha.
@@CoachMcKie totally between the series driven nature of the offense and all of the mutations and tags that waffle house menu just wants to keep growing and it will if you don't keep yourself in check.
Very well stated. I've worked with Mirror Concept guys and Wing T, both thrive by knowing how to adjust to what they see pre-snap and post snap. The part in your response about teams understanding what they do well was spot on.
@@vicknewman9418 hur dur, run middle run left run right in random increments because we have to rely on suprise and mis direction. Rather have spread veer
@@CoachMcKie Everything worked off the jet. But I loved the inside reverse. We always have 2 good backs and depending on the year its either QB as a runner or FB heavy run.
Our local high school here in Ohio has ran wing t forever and the coach here since 07 has done truly outstanding things running the scheme the last 10yrs at a small D6 school. 9 years playoffs, 2 final fours, all while running wing t. We run some shotgun spread out of it, but 90% are running, had some great pulling guards over the years.
Was on a staff that ran the Wing-T and our starting QB got hurt in week 2. The backup was not as good as the starter. Led us all the way to a state championship.
As a high school player our team has ran a spread pistol offense and went 1-19 in 2 years. The kids were just done with it. So if your losing it doesn’t matter what your scheme is. We hired a new coach and have just switched to the i form. Hopefully we’ll see if we can have a winning season. It’s been awhile.
@@justinmartinez9912 we went 4-6. So we were not very good but he is fixing stuff. He’s giving the players a workout plan and we played better towards the end of the season. This was my last year but we have a lot of juniors so we could make the playoffs next year.
Helped a HS team a few years back _against_ a team that ran this, and ran it well. For every play we stopped, we'd get gashed the next for 5 yards, simply because we couldn't adjust to the shifts and movement, leaving us flat footed, confused as to who was going where, who was getting the ball. They were also fairly quick to get to the line of scrimmage, and get the ball snapped when they were ready, on their schedule, not ours. This team also threw some, maybe 1 out of 10 plays but almost all were good for short completions, as we were again caught off guard, and the QB didn't have to go through progressions. Maybe 2 guys, that's it. If not open, he took off and ran for 2+ yards. Even when behind, they still ran this offense, no change. I can't remember if we beat them or not, I think so. But I also seem to remember them finishing the season something like 7-3. I came away impressed. I think a key is how tight can you execute it? Can your OL trap block with consistency, with smarts? Can they open holes leveraging against DL overloads? You ideally want a really good center also. Do you have at least two good runners? A RB and a flanker who can run fast and cut? Can your QB run and get you 3-5 yards if need be? Is your QB at least accurate enough of a passer to complete the occasional short timed pass? This sounds like a lot to coach, but its still a lot easier than coaching and running a spread, air-raid, run and shoot, etc. unless your QB has a big arm and looks like a NCAA prospect at 15 and your recieves catch almost anything. Earlier in the 2022 NFL season a team ran a short yardage play off a T formation. It confused the D, and they got the first down. You never see it in the NFL, or really NCAA, because guys are too athletic, too seasoned. But in HS it can be effective, even fun to watch.
Coach this was awesome, was listening to Bomani Jones podcast and he brought up the Wing-T and I honestly didn't know what it was (basketball coach problems), and this was super helpful. Cheers!
Coach I don't know what version of the wing-t you use or have seen but some of them have very elaborate passing attacks. Way back when the great Eddie Robinson coached Grambling he had a pro style passing attack with it and many other have done the same.
If you got the talent. You sell sell sell. The Wing T effective if executed properly. And even come from behind even in 4th qt. But most team use it. Dont have the talent. So the coach needs to be sure his players have 3 or 4 plays they run well. With limited play calling like that. You can still be effective. As a coach your job is to put your players in the best position, to win. Big complex playbook might be two much info 2 pass plays 3 runs. You got variables in routes field location. Inside, outside, delays and draws oh my. If u got a guy that can break a few big runs. You in there.
Yea I play quarterback and starting my sophomore year and I can throw it really good but I was at a school that coached wing T, and i had to leave because I wanted to throw I wanted a opportunity to get offers
Best offense to run is the double wing T. It will seem like it does not work but you need to believe in it. When we ran it we didn't get real results until year 3, but we where one of the top offense in the LA city section
Leave it to a spread guy to make a list about wing-t 😒. I disagree with everything he said but 2 things. I don’t get why coaches can’t see that the wing-t is in the new era of the system like Gun-t,pistol wing-t. I am a die hard wing-t guy and I have had all state QB’s and we have came back from behind and won games and championships. We do throw the ball in the wing-t. There is no cons to the wing-t
How do you feel about the whole Coach_Askew Tweet about teams that run the Wing T and Triple Option not being viable for getting their kids into colleges
I'll readily admit a fair bit of luck involved. But I am not at a big school and we have sent up 3 scholarship kids in the last 3 years a QB, a RB and a Lineman. If the kid has the goods, they have the goods.
I believe the first con is not completely accurate. If you are successful with the Wing T, then that’s all that should matter. If the kids are selfless then they’ll want to win no matter what. Those kids that hate it are usually selfish and entitled. They need to go anyways. Also, there are ways to utilize every position in the wing T.
Kids want like it?? Not going to win with it?? Have you ever heard of Duplin county football in NC?? East Duplin won a State title season before last. Then there’s Wallace Rose Hill with 6 or 7 state titles. Javonte Williams of the Broncos won state titles with them. Some exciting football to watch!
I was a Wing-T coach (Conventional) for 30 years. I developed and incorporated a significate passing game WITHIN the Wing-T system. I was able to add a simple but effective four/five wide out package within this system, while maintaining the integrity OF the system, and gave defenses the "blues". Since being away for nearly 12 years now, I see where the SIMPLE incorporation of "veer" concepts within this system, makes its EVEN MORE UNSTOPABLE. Wing-T coaches, don't waist your time going to the annual mundane, state coach's clinic. Spend your money wisely. Seek out and attend ONLY coaching clinics that speak to what YOU are and want to accomplish. Do your research.. . .today's, modern offense is nothing more or less than the marriage of the conventional Wing-T offense and the contemporary Spread-Offense. Too bad that my time has past. I may not have been there for the wedding, but I am surely enjoying the reception!!!.
Couple things. The sweep trap and counter game is outstanding in the Wing T and can pickup big chunk yards. I find it interesting you stated in another video you hate the guys that run Wing T. There are quite of few pass plays you can run out of the Wing T. Screens floods etc. coming from behind is tough in any offense if you do not have the players. If a kid is not playing because its not a cool offense its not a kid you want IMO. You have run the offense that fits your talent. Its sad that coaches are put in a position to cater to the whims of kids
Pros: Its fun to watch , its not as popular anymore in some areas, which makes it tough to prepare for in a week, tough to defend to begin with, very deceptive, PLENTY of resources out there on it , (but theres also plenty of resources on defending it as well) easy to teach, built on solid core philosophy, economy of plays, for ex off buck sweep you get 3-4 other plays as well, gets multiple ball carriers involved, the base scheme is adapatable to multiple personnel sets, and formations (I, Split backs, gun etc..) Cons: Needs 2 good pulling guards, 2 backs = extra hat, you'll see a 8th or 9th hat down a lot VS the run, mostly limited to PA in the pass game , some guys will run 3-5 step of it , but its a run based offense (Minus Chuck Klausing) , just as many resources available on defending it as running it , Mickey Matthews at JMU defended the Wing T better than anyone, some say he was the reason Tubby dropped it his last few years, if anyone has those DVD's youre going to have a really tough go of it, Also one very real thing to consider is how kids and parents are today,.....if they dont like the scheme a school runs, theyll go elsewhere , it wasnt like that years ago, but now kids/parents are fickle as hell, so it may limit your ability to recruit, but again, its kinda built for that IMO still an excellent choice, you could do much worse
@@CoachMcKie absolutely, love watching the old school schemes make a comeback, not a fan of all the new versions of them however .... everything nowadays is from the gun, ..Im not a fan of it then
I got a pro for u that u didn't cover. The best team(most successful) around my area of alabama is the fyffe red devils. They run wing t. They run in from c team pee wee all the way to varsity. The head coach has it planned out how much of the offense they learn at each lvl so by the time they hit freshman year they know the entire playbook by heart. It would be hard to have a c b and a peewee team run your air raid offense
As to the cons, they may be true of those with 16YO players. But where most football is played is 8-14YO. In that case, con #1 is not applicable. The kids are just glad to be with a football club, they don't even notice the style of offense. Nor is con #3, because we're not looking for paying jobs.
Your criticism of the wing-t offensive philosophy is misguided. The system is characterized by the placement of a wing back or backs near the line of scrimmage, and plays are categorized by backfield series. It is ground-oriented, but when run correctly can be the most balanced offensive attack. Without knowing your full understanding of the wing-t, I can only speculate your experience has been observing only the bucksweep, down, and midline series. If you take a look at Tubby Raymond's book, "The Delaware Wing-T: An Order of Football," you will see he installed dropkick backfield series - the 50 series (straight dropback) and the teens series (rollout concept akin to the run and shoot). I believe spread and air raid concepts can be integrated into a wing-t offense as backfield series. This would be accomplished by flexing the Y and putting the dive back in the slot or at the line as a second wing back. Yet, I'll conceded, some of the benefits from formations spreading the field horizontally in those systems wouldn't translate into the wing-t system. Additionally, in Tubby's vernacular, shotgun is a prefix in the communication of the play. It modifies the backfield alignment. Hearing it as a separate concept all together sounds odd to me. I've been away from coaching football for 15 years or so, and I appreciate your content being both entertaining and educational.
Thanks for the reply coach. I know a good deal about the Wing-T. I have, and read, Coach Raymond's book every summer. To me the Wing-T, just like the Air Raid, is a philosophy. A control the clock, run the ball, keep the defense on the field kind of offense. Can you mix other offenses in it? Sure. But it doesn't change the idea of what the Wing-T is. A run the ball, control the clock, kind of offense.
Coach, I’m not a Wing-T guy at all, but are most of the coaches you’ve talked to that are losing participation average teams? I understand the argument in that case of spreading it out more drawing some more interest for teams that are around .500. I’m personally curious if it has a large impact on teams that are consistently above or below average.
People like the Wing-T but in todays game, it just doesn't work, especially at the higher levels. At least in Texas at the top levels. Too many athletes around to be one dimensional. If you get behind in the wing-t, it's hard to get back into it, due to it being very limiting in the offense. A lot of kids don't want to be blockers these days, they want to catch the ball and run routes, etc. We're in a day and age where the spread offenses are more popular and seem to work better. Older style offenses like the wing-t and triple option, etc, can feel out dated and not work as good.
My team ran the wing T in high school. It’s a terrible offense imo. It’s great if you the personnel to run it I guess, but you better have some horses that can grind on that O-line because your skill guys HAVE to clear that first level to get any open grass or make somebody miss. There’s a reason almost no college or pro teams would even consider it. It’s terrible for big plays, and there’s no room for improv. If it’s not done how it’s drawn up forget it. It’s predicable, and like he said it’s painfully boring.
I’m sorry but to start off saying if you run wing t kids won’t like it? No way, if you run this correctly I have never had a kid say they don’t like it. People who don’t like wing t 9/10 times, they really don’t understand football plain and simple.
Kids don’t like it? As an OL coach my kids have loved playing in this offense much more than compared to when I have had to coach in a spread tempo or RPO scheme. Very big guy friendly. Also kids would enjoy winning with this rather than losing in spread because it doesn’t fit our talent. I also disagree with being down, and not being able to come back. Done that several times. Contrary to popular belief, you can still pass out of the wing t. You can even have a gun quick game package. Agree with you on the administrators passing up great coaches. Some idiot administrators and fans/ parents would rather lose in the spread than win with the wing t.
@@CoachMcKie I dunno my step dad has had good succes with it, I think one of your points about no thaving good QB play sticks out. Also easier to do in small schools with limited #s
Nothing kills participation like getting your brains beat in game after game. Wanna kill participation? Run an air raid offense, turn the ball over 5 times a game and lose by 40.
Your first con I disagree! You talk to any kid that has played for Oakdale California. All they talk about is thier " system "! They start Wing-t in peewee. By high school the know they know the " system " 2 x 1,000 yard rushers every year. one year 3x 1,000. rushers. I trust the " system "!
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Love me some shotgun wing t.
But as someone who can broadly be called a "wing t guy" (not claiming to be authoritative, but I coach with someone who could be called that)
I think you are really underselling the difficulty of training a wing-t qb. Teaching "the dance" of each series is not easy and it takes a ton of reps to really get good at running plays, before you even get to layer play action on to that.
The critique of struggling when behind is totally founded, if you are a "Delaware manual" wing t team you really resign yourself to grinding whether you are ahead by 21 or behind by 21. Other variants can mitigate this somewhat, but then it becomes an economic question of how you practice your offense.
I would say the biggest pro of the wing t is that it becomes a whole identity of toughness for your program. When your culture is right as a wing t team, your players just straight up buy into the "we can cram this ball down anyone's throat" and that bleeds into everything your team does on defense, special teams on the weightroom all of it. You have to remind kickers they are kickers sometimes. It's also a fun bit of contarian football these days. You would be stunned how many people just sort of forgot how to defend it.
While the wing t is pretty diversified today witha lot of variation, the biggest downside is that many variants necessitate having a pretty large playbook, going back to the difficulty of training a QB.
You don't just install a play, you install a series of plays, because you need to get that one motion set to go multiple ways to get the deception.
This takes a fair bit of nuance to be good at play calling wise and a lot of teams that I have seen that switch to the wing t struggle here a ton and when you are already struggling on offense, this problem compounds on itself. It isn't really a just call a play offense.
A perfect example is buck sweep.
In shotgun wing t, you can pair buck to the FB with some rpos and be ok. In other variants Buck Sweep means you are also at a minimum installing guard trap, down, counter George and boot and that is before you get fancy.
You can still run some rpos and run combos from under center, but it's just adding to the overhead on your qb. Often if you are making the choice to switch to the wing t from somewhere else, you probably don't have the dude you want to make those decisions.
That toolbox gets real heavy real fast. One of the central tensions of the wing t is having answers vs getting the reps to master it. When you look at the really dominate wing t teams, they are the ones that figure out what they are good at and stick to it, when you are learning the wing t, you can fall into the trap of the waffle house menu real quick, I definitely did as a first year OC.
Coach, this is a freaking amazing comment and thank you so much for it.
I totally agree with you on putting in to much. I can see it happening with everything I do when I'm researching the Wing-T. I want to install it all. Haha.
@@CoachMcKie totally between the series driven nature of the offense and all of the mutations and tags that waffle house menu just wants to keep growing and it will if you don't keep yourself in check.
Very well stated.
I've worked with Mirror Concept guys and Wing T, both thrive by knowing how to adjust to what they see pre-snap and post snap. The part in your response about teams understanding what they do well was spot on.
Wing T for life, Hash to Hash ! Big splits ! Trap, sweep, belly, boot, power and counter!
Buck sweep?
@@vicknewman9418 always and even to the boundary to the tailback side
@@vicknewman9418 hur dur, run middle run left run right in random increments because we have to rely on suprise and mis direction. Rather have spread veer
I loved the wing-T, but now they use spread wing-t combo at one of the best public HS in Jersey.
Heck yeah coach! What's the best thing they do there?
@@CoachMcKie Everything worked off the jet. But I loved the inside reverse. We always have 2 good backs and depending on the year its either QB as a runner or FB heavy run.
Which school coach?
@@TonyBananas18 Sayreville NJ
Our local high school here in Ohio has ran wing t forever and the coach here since 07 has done truly outstanding things running the scheme the last 10yrs at a small D6 school. 9 years playoffs, 2 final fours, all while running wing t. We run some shotgun spread out of it, but 90% are running, had some great pulling guards over the years.
If it isn't broke don't fix it.
Was on a staff that ran the Wing-T and our starting QB got hurt in week 2. The backup was not as good as the starter. Led us all the way to a state championship.
Might have been better then.
@@CoachMcKie wasn’t better. He was a good handoffer. Lol
@@sheldonward5364 haha he knew what had to be done.
@@CoachMcKie lol. Right. He understood the assignment
As a high school player our team has ran a spread pistol offense and went 1-19 in 2 years. The kids were just done with it. So if your losing it doesn’t matter what your scheme is. We hired a new coach and have just switched to the i form. Hopefully we’ll see if we can have a winning season. It’s been awhile.
Good luck buddy!
How did the season go?
@@justinmartinez9912 we went 4-6. So we were not very good but he is fixing stuff. He’s giving the players a workout plan and we played better towards the end of the season. This was my last year but we have a lot of juniors so we could make the playoffs next year.
Helped a HS team a few years back _against_ a team that ran this, and ran it well. For every play we stopped, we'd get gashed the next for 5 yards, simply because we couldn't adjust to the shifts and movement, leaving us flat footed, confused as to who was going where, who was getting the ball. They were also fairly quick to get to the line of scrimmage, and get the ball snapped when they were ready, on their schedule, not ours. This team also threw some, maybe 1 out of 10 plays but almost all were good for short completions, as we were again caught off guard, and the QB didn't have to go through progressions. Maybe 2 guys, that's it. If not open, he took off and ran for 2+ yards. Even when behind, they still ran this offense, no change. I can't remember if we beat them or not, I think so. But I also seem to remember them finishing the season something like 7-3. I came away impressed.
I think a key is how tight can you execute it? Can your OL trap block with consistency, with smarts? Can they open holes leveraging against DL overloads? You ideally want a really good center also. Do you have at least two good runners? A RB and a flanker who can run fast and cut? Can your QB run and get you 3-5 yards if need be? Is your QB at least accurate enough of a passer to complete the occasional short timed pass? This sounds like a lot to coach, but its still a lot easier than coaching and running a spread, air-raid, run and shoot, etc. unless your QB has a big arm and looks like a NCAA prospect at 15 and your recieves catch almost anything.
Earlier in the 2022 NFL season a team ran a short yardage play off a T formation. It confused the D, and they got the first down. You never see it in the NFL, or really NCAA, because guys are too athletic, too seasoned. But in HS it can be effective, even fun to watch.
Coach this was awesome, was listening to Bomani Jones podcast and he brought up the Wing-T and I honestly didn't know what it was (basketball coach problems), and this was super helpful. Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed it!
My high school ran this offensive and won 2 state championships but it did help we had dudes who could take it the house 🏠
Coach I don't know what version of the wing-t you use or have seen but some of them have very elaborate passing attacks. Way back when the great Eddie Robinson coached Grambling he had a pro style passing attack with it and many other have done the same.
I love the wing t game it's a great offense and always has been fun to play
If you got the talent. You sell sell sell. The Wing T effective if executed properly. And even come from behind even in 4th qt. But most team use it. Dont have the talent. So the coach needs to be sure his players have 3 or 4 plays they run well. With limited play calling like that. You can still be effective. As a coach your job is to put your players in the best position, to win. Big complex playbook might be two much info 2 pass plays 3 runs. You got variables in routes field location. Inside, outside, delays and draws oh my. If u got a guy that can break a few big runs. You in there.
Yea I play quarterback and starting my sophomore year and I can throw it really good but I was at a school that coached wing T, and i had to leave because I wanted to throw I wanted a opportunity to get offers
lol what
@@baronvonbear8285 he wants to pass God bless
Plenty of players in the wing t system get offered. Spread doesn't equate to offers....being a good/coachable player willnget you offers.
Best offense to run is the double wing T. It will seem like it does not work but you need to believe in it. When we ran it we didn't get real results until year 3, but we where one of the top offense in the LA city section
Leave it to a spread guy to make a list about wing-t 😒. I disagree with everything he said but 2 things. I don’t get why coaches can’t see that the wing-t is in the new era of the system like Gun-t,pistol wing-t. I am a die hard wing-t guy and I have had all state QB’s and we have came back from behind and won games and championships. We do throw the ball in the wing-t. There is no cons to the wing-t
Amen!!! 💯💯💯
How do you feel about the whole Coach_Askew Tweet about teams that run the Wing T and Triple Option not being viable for getting their kids into colleges
I'll readily admit a fair bit of luck involved. But I am not at a big school and we have sent up 3 scholarship kids in the last 3 years a QB, a RB and a Lineman.
If the kid has the goods, they have the goods.
I’m about winning games. Because 80% of the time college coaches are drawn to winning programs.
I believe the first con is not completely accurate. If you are successful with the Wing T, then that’s all that should matter. If the kids are selfless then they’ll want to win no matter what. Those kids that hate it are usually selfish and entitled. They need to go anyways. Also, there are ways to utilize every position in the wing T.
Need a Wing T Concept for 8-man
Look at six-man pro. it's similar
Kids want like it?? Not going to win with it?? Have you ever heard of Duplin county football in NC?? East Duplin won a State title season before last. Then there’s Wallace Rose Hill with 6 or 7 state titles. Javonte Williams of the Broncos won state titles with them. Some exciting football to watch!
I was a Wing-T coach (Conventional) for 30 years. I developed and incorporated a significate passing game WITHIN the Wing-T system. I was able to add a simple but effective four/five wide out package within this system, while maintaining the integrity OF the system, and gave defenses the "blues". Since being away for nearly 12 years now, I see where the SIMPLE incorporation of "veer" concepts within this system, makes its EVEN MORE UNSTOPABLE. Wing-T coaches, don't waist your time going to the annual mundane, state coach's clinic. Spend your money wisely. Seek out and attend ONLY coaching clinics that speak to what YOU are and want to accomplish. Do your research.. . .today's, modern offense is nothing more or less than the marriage of the conventional Wing-T offense and the contemporary Spread-Offense. Too bad that my time has past. I may not have been there for the wedding, but I am surely enjoying the reception!!!.
The only con that I’m concerned about running the Wing T is if you trail you lose.
Couple things. The sweep trap and counter game is outstanding in the Wing T and can pickup big chunk yards. I find it interesting you stated in another video you hate the guys that run Wing T. There are quite of few pass plays you can run out of the Wing T. Screens floods etc. coming from behind is tough in any offense if you do not have the players. If a kid is not playing because its not a cool offense its not a kid you want IMO. You have run the offense that fits your talent. Its sad that coaches are put in a position to cater to the whims of kids
Criss Cross play is unstoppable
Pros:
Its fun to watch , its not as popular anymore in some areas, which makes it tough to prepare for in a week, tough to defend to begin with, very deceptive, PLENTY of resources out there on it , (but theres also plenty of resources on defending it as well) easy to teach, built on solid core philosophy, economy of plays, for ex off buck sweep you get 3-4 other plays as well, gets multiple ball carriers involved, the base scheme is adapatable to multiple personnel sets, and formations (I, Split backs, gun etc..)
Cons:
Needs 2 good pulling guards, 2 backs = extra hat, you'll see a 8th or 9th hat down a lot VS the run, mostly limited to PA in the pass game , some guys will run 3-5 step of it , but its a run based offense (Minus Chuck Klausing) , just as many resources available on defending it as running it , Mickey Matthews at JMU defended the Wing T better than anyone, some say he was the reason Tubby dropped it his last few years, if anyone has those DVD's youre going to have a really tough go of it,
Also one very real thing to consider is how kids and parents are today,.....if they dont like the scheme a school runs, theyll go elsewhere , it wasnt like that years ago, but now kids/parents are fickle as hell, so it may limit your ability to recruit, but again, its kinda built for that
IMO still an excellent choice, you could do much worse
You enjoy watching the Wing-T?
@@CoachMcKie absolutely, love watching the old school schemes make a comeback, not a fan of all the new versions of them however .... everything nowadays is from the gun, ..Im not a fan of it then
The guards take u everywhere ngl
Yes they do
what if we combine Flexbone wing T and wishbone offense? Has it been done?
Wofford University has, and the Delaware guys ran a lot of Option in the later years of Tubby. Army ran a version of it in 2010 as well.
@@MrRuben536 thank you i
Check Byron high school in Illinois. Run and executed very well. Multiple state championship team, state title games available online.
Do u think option is similar to Wing T
No. I think it’s better
I think it’s better as well. It gives you more options
I got a pro for u that u didn't cover. The best team(most successful) around my area of alabama is the fyffe red devils. They run wing t. They run in from c team pee wee all the way to varsity. The head coach has it planned out how much of the offense they learn at each lvl so by the time they hit freshman year they know the entire playbook by heart. It would be hard to have a c b and a peewee team run your air raid offense
Has anyone tried it?
I’ve been coaching youth for over 7 years in Texas you can very well teach pee wee how to run some kind of a simplified spread offense.
As to the cons, they may be true of those with 16YO players. But where most football is played is 8-14YO. In that case, con #1 is not applicable. The kids are just glad to be with a football club, they don't even notice the style of offense. Nor is con #3, because we're not looking for paying jobs.
Your criticism of the wing-t offensive philosophy is misguided. The system is characterized by the placement of a wing back or backs near the line of scrimmage, and plays are categorized by backfield series. It is ground-oriented, but when run correctly can be the most balanced offensive attack. Without knowing your full understanding of the wing-t, I can only speculate your experience has been observing only the bucksweep, down, and midline series.
If you take a look at Tubby Raymond's book, "The Delaware Wing-T: An Order of Football," you will see he installed dropkick backfield series - the 50 series (straight dropback) and the teens series (rollout concept akin to the run and shoot). I believe spread and air raid concepts can be integrated into a wing-t offense as backfield series. This would be accomplished by flexing the Y and putting the dive back in the slot or at the line as a second wing back. Yet, I'll conceded, some of the benefits from formations spreading the field horizontally in those systems wouldn't translate into the wing-t system.
Additionally, in Tubby's vernacular, shotgun is a prefix in the communication of the play. It modifies the backfield alignment. Hearing it as a separate concept all together sounds odd to me. I've been away from coaching football for 15 years or so, and I appreciate your content being both entertaining and educational.
Thanks for the reply coach.
I know a good deal about the Wing-T. I have, and read, Coach Raymond's book every summer.
To me the Wing-T, just like the Air Raid, is a philosophy. A control the clock, run the ball, keep the defense on the field kind of offense.
Can you mix other offenses in it?
Sure.
But it doesn't change the idea of what the Wing-T is. A run the ball, control the clock, kind of offense.
Coach,
I’m not a Wing-T guy at all, but are most of the coaches you’ve talked to that are losing participation average teams? I understand the argument in that case of spreading it out more drawing some more interest for teams that are around .500. I’m personally curious if it has a large impact on teams that are consistently above or below average.
People like the Wing-T but in todays game, it just doesn't work, especially at the higher levels. At least in Texas at the top levels. Too many athletes around to be one dimensional. If you get behind in the wing-t, it's hard to get back into it, due to it being very limiting in the offense. A lot of kids don't want to be blockers these days, they want to catch the ball and run routes, etc. We're in a day and age where the spread offenses are more popular and seem to work better.
Older style offenses like the wing-t and triple option, etc, can feel out dated and not work as good.
This is a load of shit. Your mindset about those offenses are skewed. You can be diverse on those offenses and be successful.
My team ran the wing T in high school. It’s a terrible offense imo. It’s great if you the personnel to run it I guess, but you better have some horses that can grind on that O-line because your skill guys HAVE to clear that first level to get any open grass or make somebody miss. There’s a reason almost no college or pro teams would even consider it. It’s terrible for big plays, and there’s no room for improv. If it’s not done how it’s drawn up forget it. It’s predicable, and like he said it’s painfully boring.
I’m sorry but to start off saying if you run wing t kids won’t like it? No way, if you run this correctly I have never had a kid say they don’t like it. People who don’t like wing t 9/10 times, they really don’t understand football plain and simple.
Kids don’t like it? As an OL coach my kids have loved playing in this offense much more than compared to when I have had to coach in a spread tempo or RPO scheme. Very big guy friendly. Also kids would enjoy winning with this rather than losing in spread because it doesn’t fit our talent.
I also disagree with being down, and not being able to come back. Done that several times. Contrary to popular belief, you can still pass out of the wing t. You can even have a gun quick game package.
Agree with you on the administrators passing up great coaches. Some idiot administrators and fans/ parents would rather lose in the spread than win with the wing t.
lol the state of IL runs on Wing-t
Why do you think that is?
@@CoachMcKie I dunno my step dad has had good succes with it, I think one of your points about no thaving good QB play sticks out. Also easier to do in small schools with limited #s
Nothing kills participation like getting your brains beat in game after game. Wanna kill participation? Run an air raid offense, turn the ball over 5 times a game and lose by 40.
LOL! And lord forbid the game dragging out because of all the incomplete passes. But hey.....THE KIDS LOVE THE COOL FACTOR.
Who I's this guy ???
Besides the hiring practices, not a very well informed video.
Wing t is good but I hate it
Can’t tell if he’s being serious
About what coach?
Respectfully, I disagree. I ran the Wing-T for more than 10 years and was very successful. It is the perfect HS offense.
You don't have to have great athletes to run it!
True
Wing Ts is for YOUTH Players only , High School TEAMS should NOT run this
wing t is one of the worst offenses ever
Your first con I disagree! You talk to any kid that has played for Oakdale California. All they talk about is thier " system "! They start Wing-t in peewee. By high school the know they know the " system " 2 x 1,000 yard rushers every year. one year 3x 1,000. rushers. I trust the " system "!
I run Wing T, Gun, Power I and a bunch of plays I stole from the teams I watch. I have never had a losing record.
Congrats