I liked wing T and single wing (unbalanced or balanced) about equally, so I installed a rarely-seen formation from which I could run plays of both offenses: sidesaddle T. The quarterback (who's also a blocking back) stands sideways to the snapper's butt, so he can take the snap hand-to-hands thru the snapper's crotch, but the ball can also go past him thru to the fullback or tailback/halfback. I like to have the deep backs not so deep, and close to each other, so the snapper can snap blind to the same spot about 3 yards back and have the deep backs cross on it. The quarterback is lined up facing the wingback or flanker, so you can have the latter in jet motion across and have very easy timing for him to get a handoff from the quarterback. The jet motion across can also disguise the snap when it goes to a deep back. The line I like to play with almost 0 splits to facilitate wedging on the center in a balanced line. However, at ages where the quarterback wedge isn't much of a threat, I'd open up the splits more and run a wing T blocking scheme. Normally, though, only the guard on the wingback/flanker side is my puller. I think this arrangement allows for both power and deception and spreads the ball around. My pulling guard carried too, because it was easy for the quarterback in that sidesaddle position to slip him the ball as he pulled behind him. It's a backwards handoff, so the guard doesn't have to do any turning around to legally play the ball. Just have to make sure he's within the weight limits of those allowed to carry the ball. The deception was enhanced by the deceptive snap. Most offenses to get deception have to sell handoff fakes. In mine it was hard to tell which of 3 backs got the snap, no handoff needed. Only the QB would hand the ball off, and the jet/fly handoff was especially deceptive because it could be done with more speed given the amount of practice time you usually have.
I've been running the wishbone for over 10 years I coach 8 and 9 year olds. It's balanced and you can do allot of it. I run a QB keeper and a pass play out of it as well. Most of the plays have the same action so for a young defense It's hard to pick up a tell.
I've ran several 3rd and 4th grade teams....and I've had alot of success with a shotgun wing t. It's super simple to run plays out of one base formation.
Always have a few counter plays with a guy that can take it to the house…I use to run a reverse with the wing that was on my power side. Only ram it maybe 3 or 4 times a game and usually it was a touchdown or we went the distance… That keeps the defense from stacking to the power side.
I honestly haven’t studied it very much. I’m aware of it but it’s one of the very outdated types of formations and play styles. Which might make it pretty great if brought back to life. You’re gonna wanna surch Bob Neyland’s Tennessee Formation. He was the first to use it. Also, you’re gonna wanna look up Dick Beede, the coach of Youngstown State in the 60’s and 70’s. Happy hunting.
I don’t know if there’s a name for this, but in middle school we ran a 3 back set, a normal RB and 2 wing backs with 2 TEs on opposite sides ( there were 0 recievers on the field) ussually with a motion followed by a run, but the Powers and counters killed teams,
Big misconception- 'can't run the spread offense on the youth football level'. Spread is just a formation. You can spread the field- stretch the defense out horizontally, and run the football.
But if you don't have the passing threat to go with it, the defense can frequently cover a bunch of receivers on one side wih one DB playing zone, waiting for the ball to be lobbed up quickly by a passer under pressure. This results in an offense depleted in the box more than the defense is. I've seen this done, and it's a losing strategy for the offense if they aren't competent enough at the passing game, which most of the younger teams aren't. You can't spread to run if the defense refuses to spread!
@@goodmaro if the defense doesn't lighten the box you just throw quick screens to the outside. but also I know you haven't watched or coached much football because defenses always lighten the box when you spread BECAUSE the quick screen is such a threat. dork.
If you mean Markham-style QB-under-center double wing with little or no line splits, oriented around super power toss, center wedge, trap, and counter, with kids it can be great...or lousy. It fails unsafe. But if you can back up your ambition with performance, go for it! It has a lot of elements to it that if you can do well but not do the others well, there are other systems of offense that would suit the team better, like unbalanced single wing. Like for instance if you can develop 4 OL who can pull and block well, great for DW, but if you wind up with only 1 or 2 players like that and would consider having the plays in only 1 direction, and flipping the players to run the other way, then you'd be better off simplifying by running UBSW instead of showing a formation that superficially looks balanced but which the other team can easily figure out is an unbalanced offense. There are a lot of other "double wing", though, so just using that term doesn't specify much. I remember when by "double wing" most coaches meant a spread offense.
@@goodmaro That’s where coaching comes into play. When I found out about it I installed it & it worked out fairly well. My team wasn’t as successful as I thought it would be but I still believe in the DW. It’s not hard to learn yet it can be complex & comes down to execution like any other playbook. I have seen youth teams on here run up the score because of how well they execute it. I have seen the single wing & coached against it. I happen to play against a team in my league that runs it faithfully & I have a winning record against them, beat them this past season as a matter of fact running DW. I was apart of a well known program in high school in my state that ran the wing-T for years & considered running it with my 9-10 year old group but it can be complicated. The DW can be complex based on what tweaks can be made however it is very very effective. Not every lineman is a great puller & that’s fine, but based on the core plays for the DW YES u can flip the line & STILL have the defense guessing as to what is coming & be balanced. & when the DW is mentioned at the youth level who automatically thinks spread when u think about it? Come on man there are not too many youth players who can grasp the concept of running an offense where pass is the first thing that comes to mind. Let’s be real how far can a 7-11 year old even really throw the ball? Not far, maybe 10-15 yards accurately at best & 15 is pushing it.
Ran unbalanced line Single-wing and unbalanced line direct snap Double Wing. Most coaches have no idea how to defend either one of these. Heavy on the run game and a lethal play action pass game. Power, Sweep,Counter, Wedge,Reverse, Power Pass (3 level flood), Waggle (Z/X), plus a Special for that week's opponent and you have an offense that's tough to stop.
We run spread in U10 and U12, best decision ever. No more stacked boxes. Opens runs. Need a QB who can accurately throw 10-12 yards (including shotgun 5 yards).
@@CoreyFredFresh Again you showing me we’re nowhere near on same wavelength….. if I have to teach a kid to throw 10 yards I’m probably not going into the game with a plan of slinging the ball….. Hell I can go spread wing T if that’s what is best. But that proves my point….offend should be catered to natural skill set before running something just because it’s cool . My 7th grade qb might be the best I’ve had at his age . So I can run whatever. His backup is going to have a simpler package so we can still move the ball. But again I can literally run any offense so no offense is dumb to me
And what if you spread out your offense and the defense doesn't respect that, and still stacks the box? Spreading them out works if you have the players to do it, but if you don't, and the other team realizes that, it doesn't.
@@troyharris4231 Depends what you mean by "the process". In terms of competitiveness, you can mess up a team if your Xs and Os are bad enough, but once you get beyond egregiously bad mistakes in that regard, they count for less and less. It also depends on coaches; some are interested in and good at those Xs and Os, while others could hardly care less, so it's best to have a mix of them on your staff. An example that's commonly given is that if a player's form in blocking or tackling is good, but they don't know who to block or where to pursue, that blocking or tackling skill counts for nothing (except in 1-on-1 practice drills). Meanwhile if their form is lousy, but at least they get to the right place to be in position to block or tackle, they'll contribute positively. So the Xs and Os may count for more than you think.
Here's an example to everyone here who's pushing a given style of play over others. Last season coaching 13Us we had a team score an almost 40 yard field goal against us. If you've got the talent to do that, go for it. Should our team have worked on the snap and protection enough to kick field goals? No, that would've been a waste for us without the kicker to make it worthwhile. Same goes for wanting to run spread because "everyone does that now" at levels these kids are not playing and that most never will play. Should every team work on field goals because they do it at those levels? You could say that even if we don't have anyone who can kick them, you can still show the formation and then pass or run from it, right? Nah, that'd be stupid. Similarly, on defense should every team base out of an odd front with someone on the center's nose and the next DL in each direction being in a 3 or 4 tech? Not if you don't have the "2 gap" player who can be effective in that nose role.
If you have a kid with an arm and good receivers, you might be able to do more with the pass. Another big problem is going to be pass protection - youth players are not good pass blockers. I see a lot of shotgun formations in youth football where the snap flies over the QB's head or the QB takes 3 steps back after taking a 5 yard snap - but he can only throw 20-30 yards.
And that’s probably the biggest issue with youth sports is that we wanna run all these NEW concepts! When either A you don’t have the pieces to run all the new stuff. B most coaches really don’t understand the new stuff themselves! They will be running all kinds of concepts while just telling the line to fire out lol Now personally I can give it to you however you want new school old school it’s just concepts. But I’ve learned what kids want most is to win! If it results in winning they don’t care…..
@@jasonb.6623 pass blocking is teaching kids to get ran over slowly. if you can teach a kid to literally get in the defenders way you get 3 seconds to pass. you tryna tell me you can’t teach a 9’year old to throw a football? you tryna tell me you can’t teach a kid to catch? if not … should you be coaching? if your kid can throw it 20-30 yards you have a stud. it’s not hard at all. you just gotta ya kno … teach.
@@Yahman672 idk what you talking about bro. spread concepts are easy, it’s like understood amongst HS and College coaches that it’s actually easier than the “old school” concepts. It’s not a matter of having the “pieces” it’s about what you can teach. I’m a winner my boy. Run and talk that noise to your coaches. I ain’t the one my boy.
@@CoreyFredFresh Quit it 😂😂 You will get the score ran up on you just like everyone else. You not the only Winner big man 😂 I can tell I’d kick your team ass by you saying pieces don’t matter. Your offense should always go by your personnel first off. Especially in youth football your not going to have the qb every year required to run spread like that. Some years it may be having a hard time finding a center to consistently snap. Every case and scenario different! But again all coaches who gotta flex I know for a fact is kick your a$$!Spread, I formation, Wing T , Pistol however you want it I’d put it on you😂 Only time people talk bad about formations is when they can’t run them themselves…..
We ran wishbone and power I in youth football. We were always the best team.
I love power I, wish it was still popular.
I liked wing T and single wing (unbalanced or balanced) about equally, so I installed a rarely-seen formation from which I could run plays of both offenses: sidesaddle T. The quarterback (who's also a blocking back) stands sideways to the snapper's butt, so he can take the snap hand-to-hands thru the snapper's crotch, but the ball can also go past him thru to the fullback or tailback/halfback. I like to have the deep backs not so deep, and close to each other, so the snapper can snap blind to the same spot about 3 yards back and have the deep backs cross on it. The quarterback is lined up facing the wingback or flanker, so you can have the latter in jet motion across and have very easy timing for him to get a handoff from the quarterback. The jet motion across can also disguise the snap when it goes to a deep back.
The line I like to play with almost 0 splits to facilitate wedging on the center in a balanced line. However, at ages where the quarterback wedge isn't much of a threat, I'd open up the splits more and run a wing T blocking scheme. Normally, though, only the guard on the wingback/flanker side is my puller.
I think this arrangement allows for both power and deception and spreads the ball around. My pulling guard carried too, because it was easy for the quarterback in that sidesaddle position to slip him the ball as he pulled behind him. It's a backwards handoff, so the guard doesn't have to do any turning around to legally play the ball. Just have to make sure he's within the weight limits of those allowed to carry the ball.
The deception was enhanced by the deceptive snap. Most offenses to get deception have to sell handoff fakes. In mine it was hard to tell which of 3 backs got the snap, no handoff needed. Only the QB would hand the ball off, and the jet/fly handoff was especially deceptive because it could be done with more speed given the amount of practice time you usually have.
I've been running the wishbone for over 10 years I coach 8 and 9 year olds. It's balanced and you can do allot of it. I run a QB keeper and a pass play out of it as well. Most of the plays have the same action so for a young defense It's hard to pick up a tell.
I have 9 and 10 year olds this year. Running the wishbone. Do you have particular blocking scheme you use or a playbook I could talk to you about?
I've ran several 3rd and 4th grade teams....and I've had alot of success with a shotgun wing t. It's super simple to run plays out of one base formation.
Always have a few counter plays with a guy that can take it to the house…I use to run a reverse with the wing that was on my power side. Only ram it maybe 3 or 4 times a game and usually it was a touchdown or we went the distance…
That keeps the defense from stacking to the power side.
What program are you using to design the play?
I love I formation for youth
Do you have playbooks on formations?
We've recently had issues snapping the ball and are considering transitioning to shotgun. Is the wishbone difficult to run out of the shotgun?
Which program are you using?
Hello Coach can you show me more of the Sidesaddle T Scheme?
I honestly haven’t studied it very much. I’m aware of it but it’s one of the very outdated types of formations and play styles. Which might make it pretty great if brought back to life. You’re gonna wanna surch Bob Neyland’s Tennessee Formation. He was the first to use it. Also, you’re gonna wanna look up Dick Beede, the coach of Youngstown State in the 60’s and 70’s. Happy hunting.
Can you please tell me what software you use for your plays?
Did you ever find this out? I'm curious what it is too.
I don’t know if there’s a name for this, but in middle school we ran a 3 back set, a normal RB and 2 wing backs with 2 TEs on opposite sides ( there were 0 recievers on the field) ussually with a motion followed by a run, but the Powers and counters killed teams,
"Flexbone" is usually the term but I've heard many names like simply "double-wing". Paul Johnson ran his famous triple option out of it.
Spread all day. Ran it at 9u and lit it up. If you have the horses, turn ‘em loose.
Big misconception- 'can't run the spread offense on the youth football level'. Spread is just a formation. You can spread the field- stretch the defense out horizontally, and run the football.
spread the field, lighten the box. it’s not rocket science.
@@CoreyFredFresh spread offense people think just throwing every play. Lol
But if you don't have the passing threat to go with it, the defense can frequently cover a bunch of receivers on one side wih one DB playing zone, waiting for the ball to be lobbed up quickly by a passer under pressure. This results in an offense depleted in the box more than the defense is. I've seen this done, and it's a losing strategy for the offense if they aren't competent enough at the passing game, which most of the younger teams aren't. You can't spread to run if the defense refuses to spread!
@@CoreyFredFresh And what if the box doesn't lighten?
@@goodmaro if the defense doesn't lighten the box you just throw quick screens to the outside. but also I know you haven't watched or coached much football because defenses always lighten the box when you spread BECAUSE the quick screen is such a threat. dork.
Kinda surprised the double wing isn’t mentioned here
If you mean Markham-style QB-under-center double wing with little or no line splits, oriented around super power toss, center wedge, trap, and counter, with kids it can be great...or lousy. It fails unsafe. But if you can back up your ambition with performance, go for it!
It has a lot of elements to it that if you can do well but not do the others well, there are other systems of offense that would suit the team better, like unbalanced single wing. Like for instance if you can develop 4 OL who can pull and block well, great for DW, but if you wind up with only 1 or 2 players like that and would consider having the plays in only 1 direction, and flipping the players to run the other way, then you'd be better off simplifying by running UBSW instead of showing a formation that superficially looks balanced but which the other team can easily figure out is an unbalanced offense.
There are a lot of other "double wing", though, so just using that term doesn't specify much. I remember when by "double wing" most coaches meant a spread offense.
@@goodmaro That’s where coaching comes into play. When I found out about it I installed it & it worked out fairly well. My team wasn’t as successful as I thought it would be but I still believe in the DW. It’s not hard to learn yet it can be complex & comes down to execution like any other playbook. I have seen youth teams on here run up the score because of how well they execute it. I have seen the single wing & coached against it. I happen to play against a team in my league that runs it faithfully & I have a winning record against them, beat them this past season as a matter of fact running DW. I was apart of a well known program in high school in my state that ran the wing-T for years & considered running it with my 9-10 year old group but it can be complicated. The DW can be complex based on what tweaks can be made however it is very very effective.
Not every lineman is a great puller & that’s fine, but based on the core plays for the DW YES u can flip the line & STILL have the defense guessing as to what is coming & be balanced.
& when the DW is mentioned at the youth level who automatically thinks spread when u think about it? Come on man there are not too many youth players who can grasp the concept of running an offense where pass is the first thing that comes to mind. Let’s be real how far can a 7-11 year old even really throw the ball? Not far, maybe 10-15 yards accurately at best & 15 is pushing it.
That depends on skill set and experience of players
Ran unbalanced line Single-wing and unbalanced line direct snap Double Wing. Most coaches have no idea how to defend either one of these. Heavy on the run game and a lethal play action pass game. Power, Sweep,Counter, Wedge,Reverse, Power Pass (3 level flood), Waggle (Z/X), plus a Special for that week's opponent and you have an offense that's tough to stop.
We run spread in U10 and U12, best decision ever. No more stacked boxes. Opens runs. Need a QB who can accurately throw 10-12 yards (including shotgun 5 yards).
I'd argue you don't even need to be that accurate, the threat of passing at our level makes coaches go crazy.
What happens when you don’t have a Qb that can do that?
@@Yahman672 if you can’t teach a kid to throw 10 yds you shouldn’t be coaching.
@@CoreyFredFresh Again you showing me we’re nowhere near on same wavelength….. if I have to teach a kid to throw 10 yards I’m probably not going into the game with a plan of slinging the ball….. Hell I can go spread wing T if that’s what is best. But that proves my point….offend should be catered to natural skill set before running something just because it’s cool . My 7th grade qb might be the best I’ve had at his age . So I can run whatever. His backup is going to have a simpler package so we can still move the ball. But again I can literally run any offense so no offense is dumb to me
spread em out to run the ball. stacked boxes get tough
And what if you spread out your offense and the defense doesn't respect that, and still stacks the box? Spreading them out works if you have the players to do it, but if you don't, and the other team realizes that, it doesn't.
@@goodmaro this is true. It all depends on your kids. X's and O's are 5-10% of the process right?
@@troyharris4231 Depends what you mean by "the process". In terms of competitiveness, you can mess up a team if your Xs and Os are bad enough, but once you get beyond egregiously bad mistakes in that regard, they count for less and less. It also depends on coaches; some are interested in and good at those Xs and Os, while others could hardly care less, so it's best to have a mix of them on your staff.
An example that's commonly given is that if a player's form in blocking or tackling is good, but they don't know who to block or where to pursue, that blocking or tackling skill counts for nothing (except in 1-on-1 practice drills). Meanwhile if their form is lousy, but at least they get to the right place to be in position to block or tackle, they'll contribute positively. So the Xs and Os may count for more than you think.
Here's an example to everyone here who's pushing a given style of play over others. Last season coaching 13Us we had a team score an almost 40 yard field goal against us. If you've got the talent to do that, go for it. Should our team have worked on the snap and protection enough to kick field goals? No, that would've been a waste for us without the kicker to make it worthwhile.
Same goes for wanting to run spread because "everyone does that now" at levels these kids are not playing and that most never will play. Should every team work on field goals because they do it at those levels? You could say that even if we don't have anyone who can kick them, you can still show the formation and then pass or run from it, right? Nah, that'd be stupid.
Similarly, on defense should every team base out of an odd front with someone on the center's nose and the next DL in each direction being in a 3 or 4 tech? Not if you don't have the "2 gap" player who can be effective in that nose role.
This is boring to the kids man. Kids not trying to run these 1934 formations when they watch football on Sundays and see spread.
If you have a kid with an arm and good receivers, you might be able to do more with the pass. Another big problem is going to be pass protection - youth players are not good pass blockers. I see a lot of shotgun formations in youth football where the snap flies over the QB's head or the QB takes 3 steps back after taking a 5 yard snap - but he can only throw 20-30 yards.
And that’s probably the biggest issue with youth sports is that we wanna run all these NEW concepts! When either A you don’t have the pieces to run all the new stuff. B most coaches really don’t understand the new stuff themselves! They will be running all kinds of concepts while just telling the line to fire out lol Now personally I can give it to you however you want new school old school it’s just concepts. But I’ve learned what kids want most is to win! If it results in winning they don’t care…..
@@jasonb.6623 pass blocking is teaching kids to get ran over slowly. if you can teach a kid to literally get in the defenders way you get 3 seconds to pass.
you tryna tell me you can’t teach a 9’year old to throw a football? you tryna tell me you can’t teach a kid to catch?
if not … should you be coaching? if your kid can throw it 20-30 yards you have a stud.
it’s not hard at all. you just gotta ya kno … teach.
@@Yahman672 idk what you talking about bro. spread concepts are easy, it’s like understood amongst HS and College coaches that it’s actually easier than the “old school” concepts.
It’s not a matter of having the “pieces” it’s about what you can teach.
I’m a winner my boy. Run and talk that noise to your coaches. I ain’t the one my boy.
@@CoreyFredFresh Quit it 😂😂 You will get the score ran up on you just like everyone else. You not the only Winner big man 😂 I can tell I’d kick your team ass by you saying pieces don’t matter. Your offense should always go by your personnel first off. Especially in youth football your not going to have the qb every year required to run spread like that. Some years it may be having a hard time finding a center to consistently snap. Every case and scenario different! But again all coaches who gotta flex I know for a fact is kick your a$$!Spread, I formation, Wing T , Pistol however you want it I’d put it on you😂 Only time people talk bad about formations is when they can’t run them themselves…..