Genesis, Firth Of Fifth - A Classical Musician’s In-Depth Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2023
- #genesis
This was an enjoyable song for me to spend time with. There is a lot of cross pollination between Classical and Rock evident in this music. Tony Banks is clearly a well developed musician and brings an extensive set of resources to the music.
Here’s the link to the original song by Genesis:
• Genesis - Firth Of Fif...
Ravel https: • Pogorelich plays Ravel...
Satie • Erik Satie - Gnossienn...
Smetana • Smetana: Vltava (The M...
Bartok • Hungarian Sketches - E...
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Amy Shafer, LRSM, FRSM, RYC, is a classical harpist, pianist, and music teacher, Director of Piano Studies and Assistant Director of Harp Studies for The Harp School, Inc., holds multiple degrees in harp and piano performance and teaching, and is active as a solo and collaborative performer. With nearly two decades of teaching experience, she teaches privately, presents masterclasses and coaching sessions, and has performed and taught in Europe and USA. - เพลง
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Please write here your questions only.
Have you heard Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells"?
I have more than a question . More of a challenge.
Money.
Will you acknowledge the problem of money when it comes to mainstream music?
"People master simple ideas" ... something like that.
Yeah, so do worshipers of money.
And music, in it's Simplist form, is powerful.
Another question. How powerfull is music?
Great work as always. I also just listened to the Beth Hart video, very good, and it got me thinking about voices, and how, as you said, some acts are all about the voice. With that in mind, have you heard Jeff Buckley, yet. He is arguably the most impressive voice in all rock music. Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin suggests he is. I recommend listening to Buckley's track "Grace." His voice is unworldly, and the accompanying music will please you, I'm certain.
Can you listen to some more early Genesis? Perhaps "The Musical Box" or "Dancing With the Moonlit Knight". Maybe even "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)".
Have you ever considered "Dance of Eternity"? I promise it would be your most watched video. A piece of music that defined an era in Rock music.
According to google: "Due to its complexity and many time signature changes (108 in total), The Dance of Eternity is often regarded as one of the most complex songs in progressive metal."
As you picked up, “Firth of Fifth” is composed primarily by keyboardist Tony Banks. I interviewed guitarist Steve Hackett in 1980 or so and told him I thought his solo in the piece was one of the finest in any rock song, and he replied, “Be sure to tell Tony that, when you see him. He wrote it… I just played it,” which impressed me for two reasons… Steve could have easily taken credit, being the player, but chose to give compositional credit, where it was due… and also, though Tony composed the solo, he recognized how much more dynamic it would sound on electric guitar over being played on piano or synthesizer and chose to give the solo to Steve… in service to the song.
One of the signs of a true musician. Someone who recognises that it is the music that matters and that they are only the medium by which it expressed. Someone with a great & sensitive soul, but with an ego that can be put aside in a box.
P.S. This is why I despise many of the so-called greats who use the music to show off their 'greatness'. I'm not going to name any in particular but a look down the 'guitar hero' list will reveal quite a few. They may be great instrumentalists, but they will never be great musicians.
To me as a classically trained musician myself, this is one of the most amazing compositions in the history of rock music. It never ceases to move me every time I hear it. Thank you for your analysis! I am glad you enjoyed the piece!
After this, Amy, you might be prepared for Genesis' magnum opus, Supper's Ready, although your analysis may be a couple hours long!
Cinema show is one of my favorites too
@@viclemmy3119 Yes, the Cinema Show's lyrics talk about two very different but related stories. I never connected the meaning until I heard Daily Doug suggest one. Lovely music she will love.
I was thinking the same ❤
I'd actually suggest One for The Vine, The Lamia, Mad Man Moon, Burning Rope and the Duke suite as well
@@georgesonm1774 All worthy choices indeed, but I would save The Lamia for the whole album review. We might add 'Blood on the Rooftops' for the classical guitar intro and interesting anti-war lyrics.
Easily my favorite Genesis song. After two decades of Genesis fandom, I STILL notice bits in Firth of Fifth I hadn't noticed before.
"Close to the Edge " by the band Yes is one of the classics of progressive rock. You will love it.
Maybe not. They don't come close to Genesis in terms of harmony, melody or even sound. Yes always sounded artificial to me. Nothing in common with the warmth, silky, enchanting Genesis sound.
Not a very accessible tune if you are not familiar with Yes. Great fir fans, like me, but hard to get into, even for Yes fans from the onset.
@@anthonymcgann459 I disagree. In fact, the only really challenging part for the novice listener, is the really chaotic intro, but even there, it's not without purpose.
And I think the live version on Yessongs far surpasses the studio original.
I like the slightly disjointed, jazz influences in Close to the Edge, which forms an interesting foil to Wakeman's classical style. Genesis is pastoral and enchanting. But the sheer profusion of sound that Yes create is just as deeply engaging, according to mood and setting.
@@larryfroot Profusion of sound, profusion of virtuosity for sure but often a lack of unity on the whole. The musicians of Genesis played for the whole band.
Steve Hackett is still very active with his fans and currently touring, playing live the album that came right before this one during his time with Genesis, called Foxtrot. It would be amazing if he heard about this and decided some time in the future to play the Bartók piece.
One thing I noticed early on is the link between the guitar solo and the first time we hear that sound, which is an echo of the lyrics, "...to be lured by the siren's cry." That wailing sound of 'siren song' takes full flight in the solo. Hackett really does make his guitar sing in a soulful way. I absolutely love his playing here, and was blessed to witness Hackett play the whole of this song as part of his Seconds Out tour last year.
All parts of this song keep coming back in different ways and flow like the river of constant change...
I knew it! I just knew Amy was going to find Genesis a delight and especially connect with Tony's approach to composition. Love it!
Pat L, I agree. I'm sure most "Classical" would appreciate Tony's playing/writing of "Firth".
@@g.e.5723 th-cam.com/video/BKlkYAT5Fkc/w-d-xo.html
Genesis, Firth Of Fifth, So far the best song on this channel, IMO. Thank you Amy.
It's incredible when you consider that they were in their early 20s when they created this wonderful music.
As she said: "Tony Banks is clearly a well developed musician and brings an extensive set of resources to the music." Yeah, not too shabby that Tony Banks. I admit, I'm biased - Genesis is my favorite group and I share a birthday with Tony so... Yeah, he's high on my list of awesome.
YES, I get the hint. If you react to and analyze, "Close to the Edge" that would be a master class in music theory. Wow.
Overrated band, they don't come close to Genesis in term of composition.
Close to the Edge is truly wonderful
@@Alix777. To be fair to Yes, I'm not sure there is any band who comes close to Genesis in terms of composition
"Close to the Edge" = overrated, overdone and overplayed.
Absolutely, the guitar. Steve Hatchett's sustained notes are phenomenal and played with such grace.
PLEASE SUPPER'S READY!! its AMAZING AMY
If you liked "Firth of Fifth", you'll really enjoy "Supper's Ready" from the Genesis album "Foxtrot".
One of my all time favourite pieces of music. I'm really looking forward to hearing your analysis. I hope you mention the drumming which is brilliant and enhances the song so much.
I've been listening to this piece for nearly 50 years but the way it seemed to move you in the first video makes me love it even more. Heart felt thank you.
Awesome i was waiting for this!!
I really appreciate the time you've put in to do all the research, and I love your breakdown so much. You've put into words so many things I've felt when listening to some of these pieces by Genesis... The comparison to classical music is absolutely eloquent in the deepest sense of the word, there's just so much complexity to it. I love some of the best music of both worlds of Rock and Classical music, and to see others appreciate a similar level of depth and open mind just makes me really excited and happy. Thank you!
You are spot on with people that have influenced Genesis. After Steve Hackett (their guitarist during their 1970's Prog Rock period) left in 1977 as well as making a number of excellent Prog Rock albums he also occasionally releases some classical guitar work as well. In 2000 he released, 'Sketches of Satie' with his brother John on flute. They cover Gnossienne and Airs à faire fuir, amongst others. I am listening to Gnossienne now and can spot how that influenced him on some of his early solo work, specifically Hands of the Priestess from the almost Genesis album (his first solo album that also features Mike Rutherford and Phil Collins), Voyage of the Acolyte. If you do decide the do "Suppers Ready" then I suggest you also do the short acoustic track "Horizons" that precedes it on the album as a little appetiser. Steve is a musician's musician, a really nice guy (I have met him) and a very underrated guitarist. He was credited with creating the "Guitar tapping" technique used by others that followed including Van Halen.
Roger King plays the intro of Firth of Fifth at the live concerts with Steve Hackett. Obviuously technology on piano sampling nowadays comes much closer to a real grand piano than Tony Banks had 50 years ago. Really worth to have a look at more recent performances of this brilliant "song", live recorded at for example "Genesis revisited".
I attended one of Hackett´s shows last summer and (being a relatively recent fan of earlier Genesis music) hearing "Firth of Fifth" in full glory with the piano intro uncut even on a keyboard was a goosebumps moment.
@@klausm5460 I envy you.
Roger King is a superb musician and, like Tony Banks, he makes it all look so darn easy!
You're always delightful Amy!!! 😀 Thank you for all the hard work you do.
You are a very engaging teacher! I appreciate the focus and curiosity you invest in these presentations.
Marvelous discussion and very interesting to hear about the classical pieces that the song evokes. Thanks
Yes to YES! ;)
That was so enjoyable, and educational. Thank you for putting the time into this. Yes!
Greetings from Chile. I really love the passion how you explain the musical topics which makes me enjoy this wonderful art even further. I am very happy to have found out this channel time ago and thank you for reacting to my favourite band.
Thank you very much for your learned insights into this piece of music. You bring it alive again for me. I first experienced 'Firth of Fifth' over 35 years ago, and it remains a special piece of music for me.
Another Genesis tune having a classical beginning is 'Blood on the Rooftops' from much later with Collins as the lead singer. Steve's intro is classical guitar. The lyrics are almost stream-of-consciousness. It should be added to the list.
Yes, Blood on the rooftops is a fantastic track.
Good track indeed! But I'd go with The Lamia!
Blood has always been one of my all time favorites. It's so rich and inspiring.
@@Pjaypt Excellent, but I would say 'Carpet Crawlers' from that album.
Wind and Wuthering is my fave Genesis album. I don't often hear people list it as their favorite, but for me, it's sublime.
I had never heard the music before, but now I know what I've missed. Your analysis of this alone would be equivalent to perhaps half of the material for a module on music in an undergraduate Humanities course at university.
I loved it. Now I know how lucky I have been to live through the era of modern music, and to be able to access so much of what came before.
Thank you. Even better music will develop from this.
For the times that you choose a YES song to react to, this man from Detroit votes that you choose the song, “Turn Of The Century “, or the longer, “Awaken”. These are much more mature sounding than the early recordings like Close To The Edge, where the sonic quality of the recording greatly improves with the improvements in technology, and production techniques.
Wow! Exactly what I've recommended! 👍
I am not as fond or experienced with Yes's later music. I grew up with their classical song/movements, you have to cover their roots as well as their later stuff. I classic Yes all the way. Everyone has their favorite Yes songs.
"Turn of the Century" would also bei my recommendation, if she doesn't want to start with a longer track. Concerning "Close to the edge" she should definetly use the STEVEN WILSON REMIX, and she will hear every subtleness the song provides as well as its grandeur.
Thanks Amy, this one is PACKED with so much good information and insights. I will be re-watching this one from time to time since there are so many different concepts and ideas to be learned from it. As usual, I always love your discussions of the harmonic and melodic devices and relationships. Your common tone discussion in this one was very informative. Of course your analysis has so much more than just this aspect that you share. Thanks for all the links. And YES, I understand what you mean, and I am looking forward to it. 😉
I think you’ll find the same thing with YES’ Jon Anderson’s lyrics as it’s own musical instrument. Keep that in mind when you react to Yes music
Looking forward to this! Gonna have to watch tomorrow though, it's 1.42 am over here in Norway.
What a beautiful Analysis ! Love it!
that was just amazing amy your understanding toward music blows me away and your link to that ravel piece is correct thank you
Thanks! When I listen to music deeply, it’s like your first listen and reaction with impressions and mental pictures and emotions. Hmm But then your in depth analysis brings so much more wonder and joy to it.
A lot of people finding out the rich tapestry Genesis created with their early music. Believe me you have touched the very tip of a musical iceberg that needs to be explored. Last night I touched base with 'Suppers Ready' and 'Unquiet Slumbers in that quiet earth' - beautifully created and can be appreciated over and over again
In "Suppers ready", I think the best movement to be analysed by Amy would be "Apocalypse in 9/8", this is in my opinion, the most symphonic but it is also very interesting for its rythme section.
@@pierrecarnet2959 Je pense exactement l'inverse, c'est la section la moins réussie du morceau.
@@Alix777. Je comprends tout à fait que tu puisses ressentir cela, tout dépend de ce qui nous touche le plus. Perso, j'aime bien la rythmique et les différentes tonalités de ce passage.
@@pierrecarnet2959 je trouve que rythmiquement ca manque de tranchant, de dynamisme. Et je ne trouve pas Banks si inspiré comparé à des tas d'autres morceaux... Bref les goûts et les couleurs comme vous dîtes.
Thank you for breathing even more life into a familiar, beloved piece of music.
This is the genre and one of the particular songs that I was waiting for. I think I speak for many that we were anticipating that you would enjoy this one. Yet, I believe that my favorite part of the analysis was hearing your suggestions for the particular classical pieces that may have influenced this song. I'm going to go back and listen to those as soon as I have more time. There will always be a give and take that makes your channel interesting, but I appreciated this shift where you have become our guide in this musical journey. Well done. :)
Me too! Can’t wait to explore those composes and symphonies!
Great analysis as always! This song is one of the best of Genesis. The others that I think you could hear and give us your impressions on are: Cinema Show, Supper's Ready, Ripples, and One for the Vine. There are others of course, but these are the best for me.
Your narration of the Firth of Firth is simply beautiful…. This track of music evolved me from just listening to should we say popular pop music to real music, concept begins…… the journey started there….. watching your follow up episode dictates the journey of discovery continues, awesome episode 🎉💥😎
Oh I’m loving this follow up episode….. more please 💥
As Amy has mentioned she `will` return to Genesis again, sometime: I selfishly hope that my favourite track of their, namely `The Musical Box` might be the choice. I am sure that the other contender is `Suppers Ready` as that usually tops the poll of Genesis fans all time song - mind you! It lasts about 23 minutes, so if Amy were to review it- be one long video!
Incidentally, I personally view the Groups Double Album "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" on a par with Pink Floyd's "The Wall". I daresay that Floyd fans may demur, but for me "The Lamb" at least equals it.
Musical Box is the correct choice...or Turn it on Again. Im kind of bored of Suppers Ready reactions to be honest
Close To The Edge - nothing more needs to be said (except that I love your analyses and am planning on starting your music theory course this summer)
Who cares about this overrated record by a band that doesn't come close to Genesis in terms of composition.
ignore the troll - Close to the Edge is a perfect and beautiful piece of music
@@Alix777.But only Genesis with Gabriel singing lead
Thank you for your analysis of this wonderful Genisis song.
Thank you for this excellent and thorough breakdown!
I love your energy 😊
This is my second favorite song after supper's ready by Genesis of course ❤ Thank you for your review!
My favorite Genesis song. I suggested this when you started your channel. Thanks for reviewing it. BTW, Tony was 23 when this song was released.
Thanks. Great review!
You're a fantastic teacher! 👋👋👋
Best analysis of this song I've heard. Thanks.
Thank you Amy. YES!
My favourite Ravel piece is Introduction and Allegro for Harp ,Flute, Clarinet and String Quartet. Steve Hackett has recorded his own compositions for more classical oriented albums as well as rock. He has recorded a really good version of Bach’s Chaconne for classical guitar. He is an inspiration.
Seen Steve live several times over many years, he certainly is an inspiration and also a very nice guy.
Steve and Tony created a real synergy, even though there was no love loss between them.
What an unexpected delight.
Thank you very much ... I always suspected a classical link in there somewhere ... you have explained this so eloquently.
Amy, if you loved Firth of Fifth, you will also find Genesis’ 1976 sing, Ripples, very enjoyable. It is a song with many direct classical influences, is orchestral in its layers, and is something that many Genesis fans find in their top three of all time. You will not regret listening to this one, I promise!
I really appreciate the way you often struggle to find the right words to express your perception. At the same time, I already understand what you want to point. haha.
I thoroughly enjoyed your analysis and introspection- what a fantastic validation from someone who has such a superior understanding of music to know that you were so moved by it as many of us have been for so long, but frequently when we share with others, they may tend to be the types who adore Bolero, but not Le Toumbeau de Couperin!!! So much I wish to express, but I will try to edit myself. I genuinely think that if you would consider trying to contact and communicate with Steve Hackett, that he would be thrilled with this video, and would probably take on your Bartok challenge!!! I'm not kidding- very serious!!! Also, the masses are recommending more Genesis music that I so would love to watch your reaction to; Genesis is a group of pure geniuses who all knew how to play nicely and cooperate with each other- Every piece is worthy and well composed. However, I would like to recommend to you that you stray from the path all are directing you on, and consider listening next to a song called "Blood On The Rooftops" from the Album "Wind and Wuthering"- composed by Steve Hackett and Phil Collins- The opening will highlight Hackett's classical guitar talent, but also expose you to the post- Peter Gabriel era of the band. Don't get me wrong- I adore Peter and his genius- and I think you will likely enjoy every single bit of music he was involved with; as I also think you will enjoy the post Hackett era starting with "And Then There Were Three" which was the album right after "Wind and Wuthering" You will witness the developing genius of Phil Collins as well. Tony Banks is the glue and mastermind of the bunch- If you choose to explore his brilliance more, then I would suggest the song "One For The Vine" also from W&W... Then circle back to "Supper's Ready" and Cinema Show etc.... Also, don't deprive yourself entirely- you have missed out on the joy of Genesis for so long and the amount of time it might take to react to every piece would deprive you of joy that you deserve!!!! Sorry for such a long essay, and Thank You for your knowledge- I'm looking forward to listening to your links- as avid a Tony Banks fan that I am, I never really had explored what his true influences were and am excited to check it out... Doubt that you will make the connection, but when you posed the question of whether there was a modern day Bach, I commented at length about why I thought Tony Banks might be your man!!!
Keep it up!!! Andrew from Hawthorne, NJ
YESSSS 👊🏼👊🏼 guitar solo!
I agree , it’s truly so elevating ❤
I’m waiting for her to listen to “Close to the edge”
Same here.
Close To The Edge is a bold musical masterpiece. It's structured in a vast and sophisticated sonata allegro form that has a highly unique design. It has plenty of Stravinsky' influences.
She will be amazed and will enjoy it. Now I wonder long the analysis video will be? 😁
How about King Crimson?
The river of constant change hence the small links it makes poetic sense
Bravo! That was wonderful! I just love Tony’s compositions. But, sorry to say, there is only ONE solo work of his that has really ever interested me tor a second listen. His first solo effort, “A Curious Feeling”, has been one of my top ten stranded on a desert island albums since it’s release in 1979. Along with the only Mike Rutherford album I care about, “Smallcreep’s Day”, once again, the first solo effort outside of Genesis. Both of those records could have easily been Genesis records. Thanks for the links to Tony’s inspirations! Taking a deeper dive that a way….
This channel keeps getting better
Absolutely awesome episode…… thank you…. Thank you, I’ve smashed the (like button) I’m subscribed , lots more please 😁💥🎉🍺👍😎😘
Thank you for the classical links. You've turned me on to Smetana whose music I've never really listen to before. Beautiful piece. Also, as a guitarist the solo in Firth of Fifth id one of my all time favorites. I believe it was just meant for flute at first but Steve Hackett played around with it and the rest of the band loved what he did with it. So - a great guitar solo was born!
Your recommendation of die Moldau is spot on. That has been a favorite of mine going on 40 years.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Choosing a Yes song for this channel is a challenge, but for a first listen of Yes here I'd go with... (let me think)...
I can't decide between Awaken and Turn Of the Century, so I recommend both!
Boy, what a great channel this is!
Please any band but not this overrated cheesy progressive trash...
Amy, Love Love Love your Analysis of this fantastic track from Genesis. Really looking forward to your reactions and analysis of “Suppers Ready” and “Cinema Show” from the same band. When Peter Gabriel left the band in 1975, Phil Collins took over the vocals on the 1976 album, “A Trick of the Tail”, which along with “Selling England by the Pound” are my two favourite Genesis albums. I have been a Genesis Fan for over 40 years, so this body of work is so special to me, in my opinion no other band comes close. Tony Banks is probably the heart of Genesis, but all the band members are song writers, pulling the songs in different directions. I had always wished for an Orchestra to be incorporated into many of the works. Happily in 2019 Steve Hacketts band did exactly that and I was lucky enough to be able to see him perform live with the Heart of England Orchestra in the Royal Festival Hall in London. A couple of highlights were Firth of Fifth and Suppers Ready, Particularly Suppers Ready and Steve extends the final section by a couple of minutes, which really elevates the performance. Here is a link to Firth of fifth, I hope you enjoy listening to this version with the addition of the Orchestra th-cam.com/video/RCnzDy2tSk0/w-d-xo.html. Finally thank you for sharing links to the classical pieces that you think inspired Tony, I will check them out.
This will be awsome
Great analisis! Help me to understand the music that I love with other visión! Thanks you!
MASTERPIECE👌
Again, a reaction which opens new doors to music I thought I knew well. Very much appreciated. And if I interpreted your ‘yes’ remark right, we are in for more treats. Yes has made so much great music, it would be hard to pick one song for a starter. Btw, the singer Jon Anderson uses his voice more like an instrument too, with lyrics that are incomprehensible at first glance, but very associative. Fingers crossed.
This is so informative to me, a phycist with tiny amount of musical training. I am on my third listening to this video. I knew this was a quality composition, but could not say how. Thanks.
Amy, I loved your analysis of the music. I agree with you, that this piece is something akin to a symphonic poem to make an analogy with Classical, and perhaps the lyrics function more of a point of inspiration for the piece, rather than establishing the piece as a song- which you also commented on that. I Look forward to more of your analysis videos. So, I think you are maybe considering Close to the Edge? It would be a terrific choice for your reaction. I also would recommend Awaken, or Turn of the century as two other pieces by Yes that reveal great care in the compositional construction. Happy listening! ☺
Another to go at is 'One for the Vine' from the album'Wind and Wuthering'. Similarly episodic, it has a fluidity like 'Firth of Fifth', and utterly beautiful in places.
'Supper's Ready' is fabulous, of course, but it very disjointed in comparison with the other songs mentioned.
Supper’s Ready is more like a suite of songs. But it’s brilliant.
I'm amazed that there are no references to Smetana related to this piece. I've always thought of it as Tony Bank's version of Vlatva, with particularly the middle section following the course of a river from source to sea.
Glad you enjoyed it, I'm not surprised. This was the most obvious Genesis piece to start with, it is the most clearly influenced by classical music. They do get a lot more rocky, but other tracks that feel more orchestral include "One for the Vine", "Mad Man Moon", "Fountain of Salmacis". I think they all share the concept of depicting a certain region, place or scene.
She mentioned that piece about 20 minutes in... I was going to come here and point her at the piece but then she came up with it herself.
@@ChrisRamsbottom Indeed, but she also said that her research didn't find any other references to a possible connection, which is what surprised me, as it seems an obvious link to me. But maybe it wasn't what Tony Banks was thinking of at the time. And he should know, he wrote it.
The piano sound on the recording is gorgeous. The intonation seems perfect to my old ears
The piano he used is also credited on the album. It is a Steinway & Sons Grand piano. 🤗
I find what you do interesting. I did the journey the other way around. Firth of Fifth is certainly a key song that led me to appreciate classical music afterward.
Please check out Camel's "Ice" or the Snowgoose. Andy Latimer was a master of the electric guitar that shows strong emotion.
SOOOO HERE FOR THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that Ravel piano piece reminded me of another great Tony Banks piano intro - the lamb lies down on Broadway
also some Genesis Piano song recommendations :
the Lamia
Time Table
Anyway
The instrumental section in E minor (flute) and the development in C minor (piano) are two moments of evident reworking of the Bach Baroque Style. Everything is masked by an impressionist sound (flute tone) which prevents us from grasping the baroque textual references, creating a hybrid of magnificent beauty. This was progressive rock!
The piano "prelude" that opens the piece is a mathematical construction of excellent formal workmanship, each subsection has a precise number of beats (pulsations 1/16) which through a growth process go to form the entire piano solo prelude (390/16); the same structure is then taken up in the internal instrumental synth section of Firth of Fifth by creating a new mathematical proportion with the guitar solo (55 bars!!): the result is the Golden Section (or Fibonacci sequence) that concides with the long note F#5 (Synthesizer + electric guitar)... This was Progressive Rock! This is Firth of Fifth.
(sorry for my not very good english and thank you for your analyses)
Really enjoying your dive into the progressive genre, Amy! This music deserves someone of your education and understanding to give it its due. I can hardly wait until we get closer to the edge of Stravinsky. Yes, I do believe that is where it goes. I'm curious to see if you feel the same way, or if I'm off base. You have far more knowledge than I do so, I'm wondering what else you may relate it to.
I really enjoyed your reaction and analysis to this song! I have always loved prog rock with classical influences. I think you would love a band called Renaissance. Especially their pieces "A Song for All Seasons" and "Song of Scheherazade" are masterpieces!
Agreed.
Supper's Ready!!! Let's go!!! I'd love to hear what she thinks of that epic masterpiece.
This is going to be awesome!
An exceptional river song with a more conventional rock beat yet with superb variety, Beads of Sweat (1970) by Laura Nyro with Duanne Allman, Chuck Rainey, Cornel Dupree and the Swampers. You will hear some of Nyro's influences which range from Debussy Ravel and Opera to John Coltrane, doo wop and Curtis Mayfield. Nyros vocal melody and performance are fantastic. The greatest singular artist in modern rock/pop and probably its most influential songwriter.
There is much much more to the early Genesis as I am sure you are aware of by now. Tony Banks was certainly a classical backbone of the band throughout the years but I would equally (arguably) prize Steve Hackett. He is the one that makes the guitar sing, if I can paraphrase your earlier comment (and yes, I saw your eyes smiling at the melody and passion of this solo). The very moment of broadening that you describe, I think shows the river falling into the sea, a moment upon which you experience the vastness but also the silence of the open space of the sea, being thrown into it suddenly, the simplification of the landscape, the silence, the contemplation. This is the moment of "stop-and-reflect" symbolized by the peaceful, reflective piano at the closing.
The band "Yes" is also a good place to further your quest into rock. The band - at that time - consisted of very accomplished musicians. They were really into classical influence. Stravinski as well as more romantic influences. Close To The Edge is an album and a song on that album which would please you a lot, I'm sure. They were one of the founders of Progressive Rock, along with Pink Floyd and Genesis. I have to say though: The song is 20 minutes long, but it's an epic adventure with various movements.
Don't think Close to the Edge is possible tbh. Given the detail Amy goes into, it would be a video analysis on an epic scale that would put the Lord of the Rings trilogy to shame.
@@steeleye2112 it's more like variations on the same theme. More about arrangements if you listen carefully.
I think I'd definitely wait til she's hooked by some of YES' other, less epic, masterpieces first before taking her to Close To The Edge. Like *Roundabout, Starship Trooper* first. Then maybe see if she'll take on the entire Close To The Edge album, eh?
@@JJ8KK Why? She has the experience. She knows all about classical and modern classical composers. This can't be hard. If she was a hip hop or mainstream listener, I'd understand.
Yes, but she will have to understand that the lyrics are very difficult to understand and comprehend. That some lyrics have no meaning, just sound cool with the music. Not sure Close to the Edge would be one to start with. Maybe, And You and I, would be less jarring.. Or Yours No Discrace, which uses Chess as metephors . Aslo, Jon Anderson will discuss what meaning of songs or what he was inspired by, that would help Amy as well.
This was really a fascinating discussion of this Genesis track! Given you're thoughts on Steve Hackett's guitar playing here, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on a later song by the band that he made a big contribution to - Blood on the Rooftops. It has some beautiful classical guitar playing on it.
I've enjoyed early Genesis since my teens (I'm in my fifties), but have never really known why. Thanks for explaining it to me.
I don't know if I can pick between the piano or the guitar, they're both brilliantly done. I love that positive energy and oddball time signature of the piano, but being able to restrained and expressive at the same time on a guitar is a skill few people have, including me most of the time. It's a good day and a rare occasion when I can play something on a guitar that pleasantly surprises me to the point where I say to myself, "I HAVE to remember that!"
Hi Amy, thanx for the classic recommendations. I've already listened to plenty of Ravel and Debussy and also to Satie. I've listened to Smetana a little and almost nothing from Bartok. But listening to his music Evening in Transylvania, I could imagine how could be a Hackett guitar solo there. It could be good I agree because this music has a similar andamento and feelings of Firth of Fifth solo part.
I am not a musician but for many years, I went to an Episcopal school where we had to go to chapel and sing hymns every day. I confess, I fell in love with many of the hymns and listen to "church" music to this day, decades later. There is a fine tradition in England of choral and church music and the members of Genesis - except for Phil - went to Charterhouse school together where I understand they had daily chapel.
So often in Genesis music, I detect echos of hymns and early "church" music. Firth of Forth and in particular, the Musical Box are two that come to mind.
I wonder if that was not a great and maybe unacknowledged influence on their work?
Piano solo v. guitar solo for this tune: you chose... wisely! lol Steve Hackett is one of my favorite guitarists of all time, and Firth of Fifth is, arguably, is most iconic electric guitar solo. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr.Hackett before one of his concerts in Montreal in 2019. He played the full "Selling England by the Pound" album with his band. I didn't know anything about classical music as a kid, but listening to pieces like Horizons on Genesis's album Foxtrot and Broon's Bane on Rush's Exit Stage left, inspired me to take classical guitar classes. After all these years, I still play my classical guitar, but hardly ever touch the electric guitar anymore. I still appreciate the haunting sustained notes and sweet tone in this, one of the best songs of Genesis most acclaimed album. Cheers!
Masterpiece
Yes! Yes!
Oh, Amy. You're starting to imagine classical pieces played with rock instruments. Welcome to progressive rock! Re: prog keyboard players, one thing that's common to many progressive bands was that their keyboard players were very classically inclined. Tony Banks, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Kerry Minnear... I think you'll really enjoy discovering what each of these musicians brought to the genre.
The discussion about the "purity" of the piano versus synths leads me to think that another thing common to prog groups was experiments with technology to expand texture and timbres. You're right, hauling grand pianos on tour wasn't practical so they took along what they could that would do the best job. In the earlier days that was the clavinet and later on the Yamaha CP-70 took that role. And then there's the Mellotron... 😉
Yes, the issue with the intro, that lead to it being removed from all live concerts, was the US/Canada tour, where Tony had something that he described as a "toy piano". He actually played the intro wrong every dxmn night, and in so many different ways that he said "no more" and as there was a version already edited without the intro, they decided to stick to that.
Even later, when the stages became huge and they could afford it, they never reintroduced it (Banks simply does not want to live those moments again!). It is true that practically all present cover bands play the intro nowadays, as the piano samples available are such that they do not need a grand piano on stage to play it.