Though this is not really relevant to the point you're trying to make, you missed something crucial about Skinner's boxes. Skinner's experiment showed that when you put a device that, when "clicked" always gives a treat, animals will eventually get bored and stopped using it. But when you put a device that *sometimes* gives a treat at random (no pattern in number of clicks) and often does nothing, then animals will keep clicking again and again so much more. The "random reward" nature of loot boxes is what make them so addictive, not just "I click something I get the same reward every time".
This is why the Borderlands series is so addicting. You get random loot even from literal piles of shit in the game, and even the weapons have random stats, with the big rare weapons also being randoms drops and the stats bonuses you get from doing micro tasks that are related to the general gameplay loop are also random. I tried replaying BL2 recently, but I couldn't shake this weird feeling from the back of my head, until this dawned on me.
@@ProxyDoug How would semi-randomness affect addictivness? Meaning that you have a chance to get something but the longer you fail, the greater is the chance that next roll will be good?
@@artman40 I don't see why it wouldn't but in the context of Borderlands, the character progression makes it so your loot drops become obsolete over time making it so that you have to look for more. Also, there are money and ammo drops that you have to go after, so you're not only going after guns.
I can't even make it past the third night cuz the game took too long to progress. About to get 5 billion for the shipment then decided to get the achievement "Cheated cookies tastes awful" :p
@@4ns00 i think they meant why they didn't say "Ooh, Golden Cookie!", then click the golden cookie, say that sensei thing, and then start talking about clicker games.
How can you not only be in every video i've ever watch, but also be very early every damn time?? Do you have TH-cam open 24/7? Genuinely curious here...
Lαȥɾ✔ hey! Roblox veteran here basically the first one is free and you have to click instead of it doing it for you and there’s no other clicker droppers if there is please correct me and tell me the name of the game
I actually DO prefer Harvest Moon series over Stardew Valley because its overall gameplay is shorter and less overwhelming than Stardew. My goal is clear in HM and it's the best model for me as a casual farming lifestyle rpg game. In addition, there's more than 20 titles released over the 20 years so I have tons of different characters, story, strategies and backgrounds to play with
The best idle games don't require clicking (or just a small amount at the start) and have gameplay that starts off extremely basic but expands over time. Bad clickers keep the same gameplay throughout. Good clickers keep changing the gameplay as you progress so that you need to change what you're doing. I love a good clicker that causes me to make difficult choices through gameplay alone.
@@EpixGaminginc Realm Grinder. There is curently 125 completely differant types of runs. Though I cant accurately discribe this game in 1 short paragraf. Just try it.
I even got bored of that after a few minutes... The utterly pointless game I was slightly addicted to was WOW... then one day I was like... what am I doing?
Honestly, the only "End" to any Idle game is where things get too expensive and you need infinite in-game currency to continue. I've hit that point with both Earth and the Moon in AdVenture Capitalist on the phone.
Me: *Playing a mobile clicker game* Me: Oh an onscreen powerup. *taps powerup* Game: Watch an ad to activate powerup? Me: What? No thanks. *taps no* Game: *Plays non-skippable ad anyway* My anger issues immediately got the best of me and I nearly broke my phone the first time that happened.
Ads are unbelievably retarded. Like, seriously, now. I wish I could tell them how much I don't care about their dumb ass clash of clans clones but I never will.
Excellent, the sheer sight of cookie clicker now has brought my former addiction to the surface and i have now spent the past few hours with it open in my browser.
Watches video. Remembers my cookie bakery from 2-3 years ago. Leaves it open in the background, until I read this comment, prompting me to go back and check my bakery for golden cookies. Thanks for that ._.
I mean... Unsure what you want out of a clicker other than a background time waster? There are good clickers and bad clickers. I wish this episode took more of a "how clickers can be used for good" or "what makes a good clicker" route instead of the "clickers are bad because they don't end and waste time" we landed on.
This is a good point, we should elaborate that further here. Some people have listed examples of "good" clicker games like Universal Paperclips, saying that is has an ending and becomes a bit more than a usual clicker. Curious what others could do to transcend the genre
@@snomangaming Another one with an ending is Candy Box 1 and 2, I'm surprised they didn't come up in the video. I remember Extra Credits recommended Candy Box in their "The Waiting Game - Why Weird Games Become Cult Hits" video which is a separate video from the one about Idle games one. They coined a term in it, "unfolding games" or games that develop new mechanics the more you play. A bunch of Clicker games do introduce new gameplay to keep the player interested. (Cookie Clicker itself experimented with a dungeon-crawling minigame I think.) Numbers-crunching itself could be seen in a meta way as the gameplay evolving as the player look up guides about the mechanics and their planning and execution start to become more involved.
An example of a good clicker game in my opinion is Idle Wizard. It's got bonus stuff like Paragon Levels requiring specific feats(like completing x amount of achievements) different classes allowing different styles of play(even for a clicker game) and has challenges that require specific things to complete them(AND market purchases, which are minor microtransactions do not work on challenges).
This isn't directly related to the video's subject but I just wanted to mention, when I first found "Bad Game Design - Donkey Kong 64" I was really interested and wanted to find more... only to find that "Bad" was a one-time thing and the series was actually about good, which is nice and all and I subscribbled anyway but I was disappointed. So now, *even if nearly every episode so far is controversial in some way* I'm glad Bad has its own sub-series like I initially thought and wanted!
Ugh. The intro music is from AdVenture Capitalist: a fun but VERY ADDICTING Clicker Game! I had to delete the game because I literally spent over $30 just to put a laser cannon on the moon.
I'd argue that having no defined win state isn't exactly a terrible design choice. Minecraft before it got a story mode has no win state. You just craft things and see what you can build with what you crafted. You set your own goals because the game doesn't restrict you to one. It's just a different way of playing. Maybe what you're getting into was there are no win states in clicker games, but there is also not much freedom to do anything else but click. Time as a mechanic though, that's another thing. I mostly agree that it's not a great tool, but I'm sure someone could point out a good example of how time is used well in a game. Also, flashing lights warning at around 8:21-8:42. Just in case someone is photosensitive.
Yeah I agree, same with games like Stardew as well, no "end", but it's the combination of everything else Clickers have, or DON'T have rather, like actual enticing gameplay lol
@@amansaxena5898 Pardon my ignorance, I haven't really played Minecraft, so I had to look it up first. If I got it right, the Ender Dragon is the final boss of The End (an optional section of the game), and when you beat the dragon, it activates the Exit Portal that allows you to return to the Overworld? Well, yeah it is a win state, but it's more of an implicit one. It's not necessarily the goal of the game to kill the Ender Dragon, but players are compelled to kill the Ender Dragon because it's a narrative that begs to be closed. Mostly using this as reference btw th-cam.com/video/fgIeBgLO6rY/w-d-xo.html
I used to get really excited and was super proud of my self when I got an achievement Then developers started adding achievements for finishing acts or chapters in games so it wasn’t as exciting but it was like “aw cool I got an achievement” Then/now there’s an achievement for finishing every main mission, like I’m fine with getting a achievement for finishing the game because *its an achievement* but when u get one *every single mission* it losses its value and you don’t care anymore, and I don’t.
I will say this in defense of cookie clicker though, it's a clicker game without any micro-transactions. If you want a seriously good incremental game, try Universal Paperclips. It's a wild ride that changes up the gameplay style at several milestones and has a defined ending that's not too hard to reach. It's even got a bit of artistic merit, I reckon
It doesnt have microtransactions but funny enough it feels like it could have, since the game is one of the slowest i ever played, even compared to other games (included idle games) with heavy microtransactions.
I disagree with the idea that real time as a mechanic in games is inherently bad and can’t be used effectively. There’s a benefit to not letting someone blow through content. I look at A Dark Room, and I don’t think the game would be able to achieve the same level of unease and tension if the idle portion didn’t use some real time aspects. I think it’s a tool that needs to be used responsibly, and if actually thought about, can be used to great effect. It has to strike a good balance- it walks the same fine line as a lot of ‘walking simulators’ where the quiet and space where there is no mechanics going can provide tone and beats to a story, but if used badly creates something that is a slog at best and unethical at worst.
I think A Dark Room is an extreme outlier. Although A Dark Room uses time mechanics correctly, most games making use of time do so only to force the player to return to the game later. Time-based game mechanics aim solely to stretch out already scarce content to make the game appear more complete than it really is. Solid games don't need time mechanics because the content doesn't need stretching. That's why idle games are inherently flawed -- they use a flawed mechanic.
@@huaen8880 Having time pass in your game for something to happen is different than having time mechanics, at least in the manner we mean here. A time mechanic, in this context, is a fixed-period timer in a game. These timers exist solely to *make you wait* and *force you to return to the game* while the mechanics used in games such as Factorio exist to make the game fun and fair. Time mechanics that force you to wait just to make you want to pay to go faster offer no positives to a game and serve only to create another exploitable cash pit.
This really feels like it's over-simplifying things as if all games are like this. Take Realm Grinder. You click, you get gold, you build things to help get gold from buildings. Badly designed right? Then you join factions, get perks, have spells to cast, create builds, unlock more perks, buy special unique traits... overall a bunch of things that goes above and beyond a lot of games people see as "Clicker games."
A good exception does not make the entire genre. The point of this video is to point out the inherent problems with the design philosophy of the majority of popular Clicker Games. If some games in the genre get around those problems, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that the nature of the games involve these pitfalls he speaks of and that a lot of, if not all idle games are built upon the same foundation he lays out.
@@FatalityScouter15 It's a shame PewDiePie's game uses the same tactics as other exploitative mobile games. Although I don't know how much influence he really has on the game.
Quit supporting money vaccuum titles with no effort Quit supporting terrible business practices Quit complaining the market is bad when you support it Vote with your wallet, people.
I think one of the best things about games like Cookie Clicker is that if you get bored, just come back in an hour or two and you’ll feel ready to sit down for another ten mins.
No ending and real time being important aren't inherintly bad things in game design, and neither is what you were describing when you were trying to elaborate on them. The real issue with clicker games is that they aren't fun, but instead they are inherently addictive.
You should try playing Candy Box 2 - it starts out as a basic idle/incremental game, but grows to a much larger experience. While the core concept is based on incremental progress in real time, it uses the later mechanics to truly create something special. The beginning of the game focuses on the addictive aspect, but it quickly branches out to capture your attention through other means.
But that's incredibly close minded though. Plenty of idle games are in depth and a good few even have endings. Spaceplan, NGU Idle, Candy Box 2, and much more
@@usernametaken017 If you feel joy playing a "manipulative" game does that not make it an enjoyable experience? My point being is that what accounts for an enjoyable experience is relative
I got this notification, tried to click it, then I got a Nathaniel Bandy video notification and accidentally clicked that instead, so I had to click out of it and click this video instead. I guess you could say TH-cam is a clicker game
Fun Fact: the required length for a Raid Shadow Legends ad is 45 seconds, so if you skip that far ahead after the ad starts its almost guaranteed the ad will be gone.
9:57 OH MY GOD, I REMEMBER THAT GAME. I spent countless hours of my time just to get that pop up "you have defeated the ender dragon" Jeez, this was a punch in the gut.
I remember playing tuber simulator with my friends in high school, we’d compete to see who would design the coolest room and have the highest level. It was fun, but eventually got redundant.
I feel like you'd have more fun playing a "real" game like Stardew Valley or Terraria or Minecraft or something like that than an idle game. As the video said, "real" games actually grant you the sense of closure that you want from an idle game while simultaneously giving that satisfaction actual weight -- you didn't just pass time to win, you won through skill and knowledge. Having the player click the screen in an idle game is just a manner of keeping the player on the game's page. Idle games nearly always sport the lowest form of gameplay, if you can call it that.
@@millerh4500 you ever played universal paperclips, spaceplan, kittensgame, or either of the candybox games? each of them are idle games with a proper purpose.
@@millerh4500 Idle games have a place. They are good games to play when multitasking, if you want to play them on PC. My preferred platform for them is mobile. They are perfect to open up and do something while you are out and about. I dislike mobile games that require a ton of attention because I would rather be playing a 'real' game with that time instead. If I am away from my computer though, a mobile game that doesn't require repetitive tapping is perfect. I love idle/incremental games. I HATE clicker/tapper games.
I like idle games to run while I’m at school on my laptop, keeps the day fun to check on where something like a “normal game” would steal my attention from the class 👀
The thumbnail alone made me want to play cookie clicker again... it was really made with love and humour, 10/10 would click again and actually I will! Here we go, this is the fifth time I‘ll waste two weeks of my life completing all achievments, ALL HAIL THE GRANDMAS
Because it didn't require any effort. Most idle games fall into one of two categories: button mashing or look up an online guide. AdCap does neither, it's progression is linear and it doesn't require constant attention to progress
I feel like, mentioning Stardew Valley as a good example (to which I am also addicted to atm), when talking about this it's also important to mention intrinsic and extrinsic value and how that plays into all this - where extrinsic value is derived from certain goals the game itself sets up (where the stats and numbers going up comes into play), while intrinsic value is moreso what you personally would consider a goal and getting some catharsis from - even if it doesn't contribute - or even detracts - from your extrinsic value. An example of this being in Stardew Valley, where you have the option to *slight spoiler* - buy a house for Pam and Penny. This actively requires you giving a TON of ressources away, and unlike upgrading your tools/house/skills, it does not in any way contribute to your ability to produce more or be better (well, except for a friendship buff, which is also somewhat an extrinsic value, but is still grounded in intrinsic), it just provides a fulfilling story and some great dialogue and moments. And this game has that in spades. The way it's able to weave these two values together seamlessly, where sometimes you accomplish something that BOTH gives you a unique scene with dialogue and character progression, AND a concrete boost to your abilities in the future. And that is ultimately the best combination. Some other people have mentioned some better clicker-games, like Universal Paperclips which include more of these intrinsic values, which is something to keep an eye out on. This is not to discount extrinsic value - efficiency-based games like Factorio can be AMAZING if done right, but in a way, this is still because games like these have enough juice and personality to keep going, and since that specific game also kinda has a story in the background, if you choose to follow it. But yeah.
I have to agree with this, we live in an era where simplicity and cheapness has taken dominance over anything else, and where people are scammed through micro-transactions and loot boxes. It's no wonder indie developers have taken dominance in recent years over Triple A developers that have resorted to the low that mobile games have.
I would like to add one positive thing I've learned from clicker games: Don't get too attached to stuff you've made. Sometimes, it's best to scratch what you've made, learn from it and start again. I am a perfectionist as in I take way too much time to make something and get hung up on its details very easily; while simultaneusly never being happy with what I make. For years, every project had to be flawless in the first go - if I couldn't achieve that, I would dump it all and do something else. But then, along came clicker games. Yes, they are a stupid and oftentimes a terrible idea for a game. But I hadn't known what I had signed up for when I started my first clicker. I clicked along, happy with my progress. Then, I hit a wall. I searched for a solution on how to keep going and the solution was "click that, loose your progress and start over". I dumped the game in the next best corner. Who was that game to tell me I had to lose all my progress? I invested time, I *demanded* progress to come from that! A few days later, I started it up again. I had accumulated a seizable amount of coins to use - surely, it would help me brake that wall. Of course, it didn't. And I did the unthinkable: I clicked the "start over again" button. Lo and behold, somehow, everything went easier. Sure, the game helped with better starting stats, but I could apply what I had learned the hard way during the first run. That felt amazing! Since then, whenever I struggle with changing parts of a project I am working on, I like to start up a clicker game again, play a few rounds and be reminded that there is progress in starting over. (and then, I go and uninstall the game again to actually make some progress on my real-world-project :D)
Probably the best "clicker" game I've played is "A Dark Room." It can be played in browser and actually had some story elements and a real ending. Definitely worth a look for those who like this type of game
both of those were great, though tbh they're barely idle games since you're going through an entire battle/quest in the process - in many ways, even though they have simple designs they're lowkey more complicated than some of these in some aspects yes, I know that some other such games have stuff like this, but what separates these two is that you can easily "beat" them in less than an hour while with most modern clickers they take days
A Dark Room isn't really a clicker. It has some aspects of an incremental, but becomes essentially an RPG very quickly. Brilliant game, but still not a clicker or incremental in the traditional sense.
The Phylum Order That pissed me off so much when I found out half the game was locked behind a paywall. It was so unlike Nintendo and as a diehard Nintendo fan, I was so disappointed. Not to mention I really don’t like how it’s formatted, but the paywall was the worst part because I know there are people out there who love the game but get stuck.
Oh man, I have a major problem when it comes to idle game addiction. I’ve been playing Cookie Clicker every day for 2 and a half years now. I even set it as my browser homepage.
I have literally 10,843 hours of "gameplay" with Clicker Heroes. It's just running all the time my computer is turned on. Sometimes I just upgrade for 5 seconds and go do other stuff.
But what about incrementals with mechanics beyond clicking to increase resources? Examples include Kittens, A Dark Room, Crank, Universal Paperclips, Space Lich Omega 2, and Trimps, among others (there's one I'm trying to remember which is just a demo but was really good, it was alchemy themed) This video came off as just looking at bad incremental games, rather than engaging with the best the genre has to offer
I love the idea of an idle game. It gives me something to do in those small moments of downtime at work. However, I never stay engaged in the game for long.
Yeah I don't get it. I understand people not liking pineapple on pizza, but sweetcorn is like one of the most common and normal toppings. Maybe it's a joke because they are both yellow in colour?
@@Jaxbo782 You probably live in a part of the world where it's not common. It's extremely common in Brazil, to the point that I don't think any Brazilian pizzerias would not offer it as a topping. Another poster said it was common in Israel.
I legitimately love Cookie Clicker. It's a lot more involved than most idle games, and actually has some strategy to it. Which dragon auras do you use? What do you plant in your garden? Do you initiate the Grandmapocalypse or not? There are so many different mechanics, and they're introduced gradually as you play. There's even a dungeon-crawler mini-game in development! But more importantly, I think it just has a lot more charm and creativity put into it than any other idle game. All the fantastic pixel art and the hilarious flavor text are a big incentive for me to keep progressing.
I dont think cookie clicker is as complex as many people said, sure you have all of that, but most of the extra building abilities barely makes any difference and the ones that did make difference are like the meta of the game to make an example. The game depends a lot of low chances to get the golden cookie bonus you want alongside the hand of fate ability. Is so tedious over time.
One of the hardest clicker games is Egg Inc. Basically, you raise a farm of chickens, and the more chickens you raise, the more valuable your farm becomes. When your farm gets valuable enough, you can sell it for a different farm. The game has a sort of story, but it's RIDICULOUSLY hard to to get to the final egg, let alone get halfway to it.
my favorite idle game is realm grinder, its starts off as your average clicker at first but then as you prgress is become less about clicking and more about stratagy as you try to pick the best choice of upgrades and what combination of faction/alignment to boost to be the most profitable or to achieve a required condition for an upgrade
It's my favorite too. I love how much stuff changes, how previously effective thing go obsolete, you change the way you play, the new way that sucked before is good now, and later game turns itself 200 degrees and plays like a totally new game with what works and what doesn't shifting with each other unlock.
your still in the begining stage, once reincarnation starts the game gets into it adding more options, the first begining stage can take a while to get through unfortunately but that mainly becuase that was the original state of the game
*Warning: a partial review coming up ahead:* There's one game that does real-time stuff semi-right: Tsuki Adventure. It's mostly because it's the main mechanic and it just works. The main character is Tsuki, a rabbit who got bored of the city life and decided to live on a farm. By default, your farm gives you 50 carrots (which are used as currency) every 2 hours. It might look like a regular "wait 50 hecking hours for anything to happen or sell a kidney to do it instantly", but waiting seems very natural in this specific case. You kind of feel like you're on that farm waiting for carrots to grow, most likely because the world isn't your standard copy-paste top-down view of a city and has actual characters and lore in it. You can also speed up the whole process by fishing, which is kind of like clicker games, but without any upgrades. It actually feels like any other video game fishing. It does have microtransactions, but you have to be very impatient to want to buy these, since farming carrots is fairly easy after you get the golden ticket for the fiest time. There's a dog that gives you 300 carrots after watching an ad and most items are in the 100-1000 carrots price range. You still have to wait for him to appear though. I feel like Tsuki Adventure is kind of in the gray area.
That's also the main reason why so many people do not believe me about Kongregate being an amazing flash game site which is a total shame. Hell, I've played Mardek and it's big and good like an actual console RPG even for a flash game made by a single person. Yeah, I rather enjoy playing Splatoon and Touhou because these two game series are super fun and skill-based and I can simply take breaks freely at anytime.
there is a good game that works with this idea. it's a web based game called "a dark room" . it uses the idea of clicking on things to get more things to click on... then unfolds a story around it as you play and you learn what happened... what your goal is... it's amazing how much depth this text based clicker game is
You have got to try Candybox and Candybox2. These are idle/incremental games that both actually have an endstate, and are way more fun than most clickers too. Although they're not really clickers per se. But they are idlers. Also the Kittens Game. Don't investigate that. I lost more time to that than cookie clicker, adventure capitalist and realm grinder combined.
Snoman: "They don't have an end. You don't beat them." Me, only about 20 achieves from having them all and therefore beating cookie clicker: "Mh. Yes.. No end."
hey Snoman I remember a very long time ago you posted a video about a clicker game (I think it was capitalist adventure) and I wrote comment about how these are the worst type of games, and you agreed with me, I couldn't find the video now :( anyway I just wanted to add : is that this generation is used to having something running in the back ground, wither its a game or facebook notification, we always feel the need to check for something, and this is why these games are so popular now, if we started creating them in the 90's they won't be as popular as they are today. also this "need" to check or the constant engagement is really destroying our ability to concentrate and memorize (memorizing happens when you let your brain think about what he just learnt in the back ground) but what happens instead is when you watch a good video or read something intersting, instead of letting your brain analyze and think about what you just learnt, you switch to facebook or clicker game, cutting your chain of ideas without even noticing
I feel your complaint about how the slow gain of progress being a medium for micro transactions deserved at least a mention of Clicker Heroes 2. They were worried about people overspending on it, so they made it a single flat purchase, with no in game microtransactions. You buy the game, now you have the game. People who like idle games will be interested, those who don't won't bother. The subgenre isn't evil the way you seem to be painting it here
Not all clicker games are shallow. Check out Sandcastle builder. It's got a ton of depth, puzzles, innovative logic problems, and time travel. It's a game for hard core idle players, so it's okay if you try it and can't get into it. Mainstream idle games are usually meh, though.
There're games online called Candy Box and Candy Box 2 which revolve around waiting and sometimes clicking, but there's a sort of story within it so I found it really interesting to play through.
These types of games also hurt the game community as a whole, as game developers have no incentive to make actually good games if these type of games make more money.
Though this is not really relevant to the point you're trying to make, you missed something crucial about Skinner's boxes.
Skinner's experiment showed that when you put a device that, when "clicked" always gives a treat, animals will eventually get bored and stopped using it. But when you put a device that *sometimes* gives a treat at random (no pattern in number of clicks) and often does nothing, then animals will keep clicking again and again so much more.
The "random reward" nature of loot boxes is what make them so addictive, not just "I click something I get the same reward every time".
Nanaki404 This is also why slot machines are very addictive.
It finally makes sense to me now...
This is why the Borderlands series is so addicting. You get random loot even from literal piles of shit in the game, and even the weapons have random stats, with the big rare weapons also being randoms drops and the stats bonuses you get from doing micro tasks that are related to the general gameplay loop are also random.
I tried replaying BL2 recently, but I couldn't shake this weird feeling from the back of my head, until this dawned on me.
@@ProxyDoug How would semi-randomness affect addictivness? Meaning that you have a chance to get something but the longer you fail, the greater is the chance that next roll will be good?
@@artman40 I don't see why it wouldn't but in the context of Borderlands, the character progression makes it so your loot drops become obsolete over time making it so that you have to look for more. Also, there are money and ammo drops that you have to go after, so you're not only going after guns.
Me: "Just a little cookie clicker, for old times sake."
Also me: *starts Grandmapocalypse*
Reg Pett I had 15 quinquadrillion cursors
Wow, I’ve spent 7months day/night on cookie clicker to where I had over 600 legacies
@@physbrywha thats literally impossible.. to get past 4000 you need inf cookies
I can't even make it past the third night cuz the game took too long to progress. About to get 5 billion for the shipment then decided to get the achievement "Cheated cookies tastes awful" :p
YES queen
"ooooh golden cookie"
*Starts clicking big cookie*
Hattmannen yeah and how come he had to click like 10 times to use the golden cookie cause it was like “ooh golden cookie (like 10-20 clicks)”
He is noob
@@4ns00 so why didn’t he say that at the beggining of the video?
@@4ns00 i think they meant why they didn't say "Ooh, Golden Cookie!", then click the golden cookie, say that sensei thing, and then start talking about clicker games.
@@Despacitoian golden cookie does not really need clicks to get
*The grandmas are angry*
How can you not only be in every video i've ever watch, but also be very early every damn time?? Do you have TH-cam open 24/7? Genuinely curious here...
Oh it’s this guy
It's Very strange to see Justin y with just 17 likes
@@ATNtalk Have you not seen the video debunking him?
@@ATNtalk th-cam.com/video/2YODdY0QgfM/w-d-xo.html
Ever heard of Roblox tycoons
Lαȥɾ✔ hey! Roblox veteran here basically the first one is free and you have to click instead of it doing it for you and there’s no other clicker droppers if there is please correct me and tell me the name of the game
*please dont mention it ever again, that is fatal*
@@MySpace202 You are right, but there is not a specific name for that game, it is a type of tycoon. That first click dropper btw is called a 'mine'
L M A O
Some are fun
8:37 "And what do you receive for finishing the gauntlet of doing nothing but clicking a lightswitch for over 30 minutes?"
A seizure.
haha
The system short circuits and causes a fire?
No, a spooky blob boi shows up and yells at you.
@@surrealsweets8741 Dead Hand?
@@crabking3525 No, I was talking about Uboa from Yume Nikki. He shows up when you flicker a light switch too much.
*Any Game design review video* : _And this is why Stardew Valley is the best game ever made_
Story of my life lol
I actually DO prefer Harvest Moon series over Stardew Valley because its overall gameplay is shorter and less overwhelming than Stardew. My goal is clear in HM and it's the best model for me as a casual farming lifestyle rpg game. In addition, there's more than 20 titles released over the 20 years so I have tons of different characters, story, strategies and backgrounds to play with
Minecraft is better
Y e s
Borderlands 2 is better
The best idle games don't require clicking (or just a small amount at the start) and have gameplay that starts off extremely basic but expands over time. Bad clickers keep the same gameplay throughout. Good clickers keep changing the gameplay as you progress so that you need to change what you're doing. I love a good clicker that causes me to make difficult choices through gameplay alone.
Any suggestions?
candybox!
@@EpixGaminginc Realm Grinder. There is curently 125 completely differant types of runs. Though I cant accurately discribe this game in 1 short paragraf. Just try it.
@@alfasilverblade is it free?
@@Slash0mega yeah, both on mobile and pc. Ive been playing this for 2 years now.
I only ever liked cookie clicker. Mostly because of the story it has going on in the background.
Garrett Rodgers wait till you try spaceplan or universal paperclips
I have it going on in the background anytime I'm on my computer so I can start the Grandmapocolyse.
And the little messages that appear. They're really funny and makes you want to see them all
Hail Cookie Clicker, the only good clicker game I've played
I even got bored of that after a few minutes... The utterly pointless game I was slightly addicted to was WOW... then one day I was like... what am I doing?
I forgot about cookie clicker.
You've ruined my life.
How?
@@DarwinskiYT Because he has to go play it some more cus it's so addictive
-Darwinski- *because you cant stop*
and i oop
@@DarwinskiYT THE CYCLE WILL NEVER STOP
The clicker game everyone has been hooked on lately is Dislike TH-cam Rewind. I've got to say it's pretty satisfying.
@@stayskeptic3923 I've always though it belonged to pointnclick genre
It’s a shame the game is being taken down by the devs themselves because we’re too good at it
I personally prefer the sequel: "2019 Pepsi Superbowl Halftime Show"
TH-cam rewind was actually good this year.
Oh, you mean the one that Pewds didn't make?
Achievement unlocked: dislike Gillette ad
Honestly, the only "End" to any Idle game is where things get too expensive and you need infinite in-game currency to continue. I've hit that point with both Earth and the Moon in AdVenture Capitalist on the phone.
Really. What about A dark room, or space plan, or candy box (1 and 2). There are many more.
Name Man candy box 2 is the best
Finn Christensen Kraft ok
I too needed infinite money on Earth.
Me: *Playing a mobile clicker game*
Me: Oh an onscreen powerup. *taps powerup*
Game: Watch an ad to activate powerup?
Me: What? No thanks. *taps no*
Game: *Plays non-skippable ad anyway*
My anger issues immediately got the best of me and I nearly broke my phone the first time that happened.
you might as well watch the ad, because they're gonna show you one anyway
Just turn off the internet
@@Chocice75 genius
The game “Go Fish” is the KING of that
Ads are unbelievably retarded. Like, seriously, now. I wish I could tell them how much I don't care about their dumb ass clash of clans clones but I never will.
Excellent, the sheer sight of cookie clicker now has brought my former addiction to the surface and i have now spent the past few hours with it open in my browser.
Watches video. Remembers my cookie bakery from 2-3 years ago. Leaves it open in the background, until I read this comment, prompting me to go back and check my bakery for golden cookies.
Thanks for that ._.
That game literally broke my mouse.
I spent about 2 weeks straight on the game a couple months ago
I thought about playing adventure capitalist again... But I must resist. Not today Facebook.
@@CosmicCreatorCat its on steam :)
Ironically, I just started playing Cookie Clicker thanks to this video.
Thanks mate.
179 tredecillion cookies earned since I last played
Still playing Cookie Clicker?
@@tinpot976 They went too far, they started a Grandmapocalypse.
I starten 2 Wolke 2 weeks ago
I started 3 weeks ago.
A billion heavenly chips in.
_Just use an autoclicker_
coockie clicker has a command that allows you to automatically click the big cookie like every milisecond. even when the cursor is not on the cookie
I do and I still need to manual click specific spots at specific times in specific orders or else I lose specific sections.
Fun Fact: Running multiple auto clickers at once actually makes the clicking faster.
just hack your cookie number by injecting javascript
That doesn't make a damn difference in Cookie Clicker, later on you just need so many cookies that, clicking becomes useless
I mean... Unsure what you want out of a clicker other than a background time waster?
There are good clickers and bad clickers. I wish this episode took more of a "how clickers can be used for good" or "what makes a good clicker" route instead of the "clickers are bad because they don't end and waste time" we landed on.
This is a good point, we should elaborate that further here. Some people have listed examples of "good" clicker games like Universal Paperclips, saying that is has an ending and becomes a bit more than a usual clicker. Curious what others could do to transcend the genre
@@snomangaming Another one with an ending is Candy Box 1 and 2, I'm surprised they didn't come up in the video.
I remember Extra Credits recommended Candy Box in their "The Waiting Game - Why Weird Games Become Cult Hits" video which is a separate video from the one about Idle games one. They coined a term in it, "unfolding games" or games that develop new mechanics the more you play. A bunch of Clicker games do introduce new gameplay to keep the player interested. (Cookie Clicker itself experimented with a dungeon-crawling minigame I think.) Numbers-crunching itself could be seen in a meta way as the gameplay evolving as the player look up guides about the mechanics and their planning and execution start to become more involved.
@@snomangaming well paperclips is not a clicker per se. looks like it at the beginning but it changes fast.
@@snomangaming Have you ever played "My Little Inferno"?
An example of a good clicker game in my opinion is Idle Wizard. It's got bonus stuff like Paragon Levels requiring specific feats(like completing x amount of achievements) different classes allowing different styles of play(even for a clicker game) and has challenges that require specific things to complete them(AND market purchases, which are minor microtransactions do not work on challenges).
"has no end" *angry universal paperclips noises*
Pheo I loved the ending to that game
Crank is also a good one if you like idle games that eventually end.
*angry spaceplan noises*
This isn't directly related to the video's subject but I just wanted to mention, when I first found "Bad Game Design - Donkey Kong 64" I was really interested and wanted to find more... only to find that "Bad" was a one-time thing and the series was actually about good, which is nice and all and I subscribbled anyway but I was disappointed. So now, *even if nearly every episode so far is controversial in some way* I'm glad Bad has its own sub-series like I initially thought and wanted!
Awesome
Falkuzrules there are actually a lot more bad game designs, they just aren't called "bad game design"
"Subscribbled" XD
The best clicker game is when you see a Snoman Gaming upload and click as quick as you can
#plantgang
Carrterr Forrman I cut and burn plants since I’m Roy
#PlantGang
#plantgang
t piranha plant PewMarioFowardAriel
Me: Phhhhh, clickers are so bad....
*Starts playing AdVenture Communist*
Literally me
its the best one
Radian AdVenture Communist is the best
How do you say phhhhh ?
good comment komrade
Ugh. The intro music is from AdVenture Capitalist: a fun but VERY ADDICTING Clicker Game! I had to delete the game because I literally spent over $30 just to put a laser cannon on the moon.
😂
MelodiousBlitz now they have adVenture communist.
What was the lazer cannon even for?
@@maggieent3215 Commercial Use. You get hella bread if you do, b/c a lot of people want to pay you to use a laser cannon, apparently.
Funny because you can legit edit a file that gives you infinite gold haha. Wasted your money right there.
I’m a simple man. When i see videos about how bad clicker games are, I click.
I cum
@@GatorMilk 🍆
Fuck
Inkwell OH MY GOD HAHAHA!!
@@GatorMilk And then I smash all your plates
Confession: I watched this solely to try and find a new idle game to play.
@FluxFlu No?
Antimatter dimensions is a good game if you dont care about grsphics rather than literally everything else
Aslo big numbers
Very big
Like e300,000,000
Idle skilling is a good one, its got tons of content and really good progression
Antimatter dimnesions: no visuals, just a lot of content and THE NEWS BAR (which is not actually news)
Realm grinder is a really fun one imo
9:34 I wanted to buy 10 lives for 4 dollars, but after finding out that I could buy 30 lives for only 14 dollars I immediately chose 30. What a steal!
10 lives for 4 dollars=30 lives for 12 dollars a extra 2 dollars spent on lives
Not really bad of a price increase
what you don't realize is that the merchant in this case isn't selling anything
Out of all of the options 10 (lives) for 3.99$ is the best deal, tied with 50 (lives) for 19.99$
Woooosh
I'd argue that having no defined win state isn't exactly a terrible design choice. Minecraft before it got a story mode has no win state. You just craft things and see what you can build with what you crafted. You set your own goals because the game doesn't restrict you to one. It's just a different way of playing. Maybe what you're getting into was there are no win states in clicker games, but there is also not much freedom to do anything else but click.
Time as a mechanic though, that's another thing. I mostly agree that it's not a great tool, but I'm sure someone could point out a good example of how time is used well in a game.
Also, flashing lights warning at around 8:21-8:42. Just in case someone is photosensitive.
Yeah I agree, same with games like Stardew as well, no "end", but it's the combination of everything else Clickers have, or DON'T have rather, like actual enticing gameplay lol
@@amansaxena5898 Pardon my ignorance, I haven't really played Minecraft, so I had to look it up first. If I got it right, the Ender Dragon is the final boss of The End (an optional section of the game), and when you beat the dragon, it activates the Exit Portal that allows you to return to the Overworld? Well, yeah it is a win state, but it's more of an implicit one. It's not necessarily the goal of the game to kill the Ender Dragon, but players are compelled to kill the Ender Dragon because it's a narrative that begs to be closed.
Mostly using this as reference btw th-cam.com/video/fgIeBgLO6rY/w-d-xo.html
'pfff those completionist people are a bit weird' *proceeds to continue trying to 3 star every level on peggle*
Cookie Clicker the favorite game of high schoolers not paying attention in class.
Dont forget super mario crossover
Oh and Run 2
@@Itsumi456 Run 3 is waaaaaaaaay better
No that's btd5, at least in my school
For my school its online tetris
Tfw you're playing Cookie Clicker and get the notification for this video
I used to get really excited and was super proud of my self when I got an achievement
Then developers started adding achievements for finishing acts or chapters in games so it wasn’t as exciting but it was like “aw cool I got an achievement”
Then/now there’s an achievement for finishing every main mission, like I’m fine with getting a achievement for finishing the game because *its an achievement* but when u get one *every single mission* it losses its value and you don’t care anymore, and I don’t.
Kookie Klicker could make for an oldschool DKC boss name tbh
Kookie Klicker Klub, unite!
@@GatorMilk Wait a fucking minute...
Kookie
Klicker
Klub
Azzalack you beat me to it
More like Kookie Klicker Klubba
God, Mafia Wars. I played a lot of that a decade ago. That, and Citysville, Farmville, etc. Never again.
Why have Mafia Wars when you can have Mafia City?
This is exactly how Social Media works. Post something, Go to sleep, Wake up in the morning and check all the numbers that went up over night!
I will say this in defense of cookie clicker though, it's a clicker game without any micro-transactions. If you want a seriously good incremental game, try Universal Paperclips. It's a wild ride that changes up the gameplay style at several milestones and has a defined ending that's not too hard to reach. It's even got a bit of artistic merit, I reckon
If you like clicker games. I suggest trying Armory and machine on mobile.
Try out NGU idle
bitcoin billionaire was a good one
kittens game is good, actual resource managment
It doesnt have microtransactions but funny enough it feels like it could have, since the game is one of the slowest i ever played, even compared to other games (included idle games) with heavy microtransactions.
I disagree with the idea that real time as a mechanic in games is inherently bad and can’t be used effectively. There’s a benefit to not letting someone blow through content. I look at A Dark Room, and I don’t think the game would be able to achieve the same level of unease and tension if the idle portion didn’t use some real time aspects. I think it’s a tool that needs to be used responsibly, and if actually thought about, can be used to great effect. It has to strike a good balance- it walks the same fine line as a lot of ‘walking simulators’ where the quiet and space where there is no mechanics going can provide tone and beats to a story, but if used badly creates something that is a slog at best and unethical at worst.
I think A Dark Room is an extreme outlier. Although A Dark Room uses time mechanics correctly, most games making use of time do so only to force the player to return to the game later.
Time-based game mechanics aim solely to stretch out already scarce content to make the game appear more complete than it really is. Solid games don't need time mechanics because the content doesn't need stretching. That's why idle games are inherently flawed -- they use a flawed mechanic.
If you need a time gate to stop the majority of players from blasting through the content faster than you intend your content was poorly designed.
@@Jackpkmn Well put.
You should play games to pass time, not pass time to play games.
@@millerh4500 Factorio uses time mechanics. Would you say factorio is not a solid game?
@@huaen8880 Having time pass in your game for something to happen is different than having time mechanics, at least in the manner we mean here.
A time mechanic, in this context, is a fixed-period timer in a game.
These timers exist solely to *make you wait* and *force you to return to the game* while the mechanics used in games such as Factorio exist to make the game fun and fair.
Time mechanics that force you to wait just to make you want to pay to go faster offer no positives to a game and serve only to create another exploitable cash pit.
I feel like it’s bad that I recognised almost every game he showed
This really feels like it's over-simplifying things as if all games are like this. Take Realm Grinder. You click, you get gold, you build things to help get gold from buildings. Badly designed right? Then you join factions, get perks, have spells to cast, create builds, unlock more perks, buy special unique traits... overall a bunch of things that goes above and beyond a lot of games people see as "Clicker games."
Realm Grinder a simulation game? You're drunk of something?
A good exception does not make the entire genre. The point of this video is to point out the inherent problems with the design philosophy of the majority of popular Clicker Games. If some games in the genre get around those problems, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that the nature of the games involve these pitfalls he speaks of and that a lot of, if not all idle games are built upon the same foundation he lays out.
9:19 This game is still relevant goddammit!
relevant if you're a sheep with 2 braincells.
Relevant if you think tseries is gay
@@FatalityScouter15 It's a shame PewDiePie's game uses the same tactics as other exploitative mobile games. Although I don't know how much influence he really has on the game.
Oh,you want Castles?
@@NaudVanDalen its probably that game companies just pay him to collaborate or smth, and use that to advertise the game
Quit supporting money vaccuum titles with no effort
Quit supporting terrible business practices
Quit complaining the market is bad when you support it
Vote with your wallet, people.
The problem is people DID vote with their wallets: it resulted in loot box crap.
Chuck Chan whales have more money to vote with
*cough* *cough* *Pokémon Sword and Shield
@@chuckchan4127 you mean kids.
I mean if it’s free then who cares
I think one of the best things about games like Cookie Clicker is that if you get bored, just come back in an hour or two and you’ll feel ready to sit down for another ten mins.
No ending and real time being important aren't inherintly bad things in game design, and neither is what you were describing when you were trying to elaborate on them.
The real issue with clicker games is that they aren't fun, but instead they are inherently addictive.
Exactly, it's the combination of those design elements but used in a non-expansive way and for the simple fact of addiction and nothing else
I recognize your profile picture from Action 52.
You should try playing Candy Box 2 - it starts out as a basic idle/incremental game, but grows to a much larger experience. While the core concept is based on incremental progress in real time, it uses the later mechanics to truly create something special. The beginning of the game focuses on the addictive aspect, but it quickly branches out to capture your attention through other means.
But that's incredibly close minded though. Plenty of idle games are in depth and a good few even have endings. Spaceplan, NGU Idle, Candy Box 2, and much more
@@niallmccoy4809 They are more like exceptions to the rule that Clicker Games are lazily designed to be addictive.
Doesn't every videogame at its core aim to abuse our psychology?
Good games have an enjoyable experience. Bad games have a not enjoyable experience with manipulative ways to make you continue
@@usernametaken017 If you feel joy playing a "manipulative" game does that not make it an enjoyable experience? My point being is that what accounts for an enjoyable experience is relative
I got this notification, tried to click it, then I got a Nathaniel Bandy video notification and accidentally clicked that instead, so I had to click out of it and click this video instead.
I guess you could say TH-cam is a clicker game
*life is like a viDEO GAME*
You can create one of these by just hitting the + button on a calculator and occasionally raising the number you are adding by
The true first clicker game :P
@@snomangaming Best clicker game in school
ans +1
I also had play that game
I just multiplied the number by 1.01 and didn't have to manually apply growth and try not to break it.
"today's video is sponsered by Squarspace!" *Skips 20 seconds ahead*
Fun Fact: the required length for a Raid Shadow Legends ad is 45 seconds, so if you skip that far ahead after the ad starts its almost guaranteed the ad will be gone.
@@DannyCheezits thanks
Accuracy: 9999999999999999
@@fredroberts4179 if it's not 100% accurate it's 50% accurate
9:57 OH MY GOD, I REMEMBER THAT GAME. I spent countless hours of my time just to get that pop up "you have defeated the ender dragon" Jeez, this was a punch in the gut.
What was the name of it?
Honestly, adventure capitalist was the perfect game to keep my little autistic brain in check. BIG NUMBERSSS.
Yep, very relateable
Want even bigger numbers? Play Transport Defender, My dps is over 1e10000 in that game.
"Who puts corn on pizza?" Well, believe it or not, when I lived in Israel it was quite popular, and tasted surprisingly good too! ;)
ew
i wanna try!
I really like how you included the music for that freaking stupid business tycoon thingy where you have a lemonade stand then you're on mars
"We want goals and tasks completed" Except the ones that take actual effort of course.
I remember playing tuber simulator with my friends in high school, we’d compete to see who would design the coolest room and have the highest level. It was fun, but eventually got redundant.
Idle and incremental games are fantastic. Games that require intensive repetitive clicking are the worst.
I feel like you'd have more fun playing a "real" game like Stardew Valley or Terraria or Minecraft or something like that than an idle game.
As the video said, "real" games actually grant you the sense of closure that you want from an idle game while simultaneously giving that satisfaction actual weight -- you didn't just pass time to win, you won through skill and knowledge.
Having the player click the screen in an idle game is just a manner of keeping the player on the game's page.
Idle games nearly always sport the lowest form of gameplay, if you can call it that.
@@millerh4500 you ever played universal paperclips, spaceplan, kittensgame, or either of the candybox games? each of them are idle games with a proper purpose.
@@millerh4500 Idle games have a place. They are good games to play when multitasking, if you want to play them on PC. My preferred platform for them is mobile. They are perfect to open up and do something while you are out and about. I dislike mobile games that require a ton of attention because I would rather be playing a 'real' game with that time instead. If I am away from my computer though, a mobile game that doesn't require repetitive tapping is perfect. I love idle/incremental games. I HATE clicker/tapper games.
@@3thanguy7 I agree, those are good games. My issue is with poorly made idle games that waste your time.
I like idle games to run while I’m at school on my laptop, keeps the day fun to check on where something like a “normal game” would steal my attention from the class 👀
I’ve played clicker games before. They get boring after 2 days for me.
For me it takes under two hours
Several months for me. The game is designed to improve the sales of phones and computers.
Play Realm Grinder, u wont get bored, trust me, if u do is because ur not made for clickers
Nah I've been playing Clicker Heroes for months yall have shitty attention spans
@@danis.s2102 yeah Ive been playing Clicker Heroes for months
The thumbnail alone made me want to play cookie clicker again... it was really made with love and humour, 10/10 would click again and actually I will! Here we go, this is the fifth time I‘ll waste two weeks of my life completing all achievments, ALL HAIL THE GRANDMAS
2 weeks? Are you a world record holder? Took me a year and a half and people praised me for being fast
smallWORLD oh well at some point i start cheating the shit out of it 😂
the only clicker game I could ever tolerate was adventure capitalist and I don’t really know why
Because it didn't require any effort. Most idle games fall into one of two categories: button mashing or look up an online guide. AdCap does neither, it's progression is linear and it doesn't require constant attention to progress
But none of it matters really since I just sit collecting cookies.
I got the reference
manaquri help us understand, sensei.
its a song
@@cheesecakelasagna th-cam.com/video/eaK5_eJRzmA/w-d-xo.html
Epic
saying that clicker games are "just watching numbers rise" is like saying that other video games are just watching polygons move
It's saying watching polygons move...very slowly.
I feel like, mentioning Stardew Valley as a good example (to which I am also addicted to atm), when talking about this it's also important to mention intrinsic and extrinsic value and how that plays into all this - where extrinsic value is derived from certain goals the game itself sets up (where the stats and numbers going up comes into play), while intrinsic value is moreso what you personally would consider a goal and getting some catharsis from - even if it doesn't contribute - or even detracts - from your extrinsic value. An example of this being in Stardew Valley, where you have the option to *slight spoiler*
- buy a house for Pam and Penny. This actively requires you giving a TON of ressources away, and unlike upgrading your tools/house/skills, it does not in any way contribute to your ability to produce more or be better (well, except for a friendship buff, which is also somewhat an extrinsic value, but is still grounded in intrinsic), it just provides a fulfilling story and some great dialogue and moments.
And this game has that in spades. The way it's able to weave these two values together seamlessly, where sometimes you accomplish something that BOTH gives you a unique scene with dialogue and character progression, AND a concrete boost to your abilities in the future. And that is ultimately the best combination.
Some other people have mentioned some better clicker-games, like Universal Paperclips which include more of these intrinsic values, which is something to keep an eye out on.
This is not to discount extrinsic value - efficiency-based games like Factorio can be AMAZING if done right, but in a way, this is still because games like these have enough juice and personality to keep going, and since that specific game also kinda has a story in the background, if you choose to follow it. But yeah.
I have to agree with this, we live in an era where simplicity and cheapness has taken dominance over anything else, and where people are scammed through micro-transactions and loot boxes. It's no wonder indie developers have taken dominance in recent years over Triple A developers that have resorted to the low that mobile games have.
Sloth evolution:you finaly got the last alien sloth
Me:yes
Sloth evolution:what did it cost?
Me:Everything...
I would like to add one positive thing I've learned from clicker games: Don't get too attached to stuff you've made. Sometimes, it's best to scratch what you've made, learn from it and start again.
I am a perfectionist as in I take way too much time to make something and get hung up on its details very easily; while simultaneusly never being happy with what I make. For years, every project had to be flawless in the first go - if I couldn't achieve that, I would dump it all and do something else.
But then, along came clicker games.
Yes, they are a stupid and oftentimes a terrible idea for a game. But I hadn't known what I had signed up for when I started my first clicker. I clicked along, happy with my progress. Then, I hit a wall. I searched for a solution on how to keep going and the solution was "click that, loose your progress and start over".
I dumped the game in the next best corner.
Who was that game to tell me I had to lose all my progress? I invested time, I *demanded* progress to come from that!
A few days later, I started it up again. I had accumulated a seizable amount of coins to use - surely, it would help me brake that wall.
Of course, it didn't. And I did the unthinkable: I clicked the "start over again" button.
Lo and behold, somehow, everything went easier. Sure, the game helped with better starting stats, but I could apply what I had learned the hard way during the first run. That felt amazing!
Since then, whenever I struggle with changing parts of a project I am working on, I like to start up a clicker game again, play a few rounds and be reminded that there is progress in starting over. (and then, I go and uninstall the game again to actually make some progress on my real-world-project :D)
Probably the best "clicker" game I've played is "A Dark Room." It can be played in browser and actually had some story elements and a real ending. Definitely worth a look for those who like this type of game
Candy Box 2 is also pretty fun. It starts like an usual idle game, and becomes pretty fun. Also, you don't need giant amounts of candies to progress.
both of those were great, though tbh they're barely idle games since you're going through an entire battle/quest in the process - in many ways, even though they have simple designs they're lowkey more complicated than some of these in some aspects
yes, I know that some other such games have stuff like this, but what separates these two is that you can easily "beat" them in less than an hour while with most modern clickers they take days
A Dark Room isn't really a clicker. It has some aspects of an incremental, but becomes essentially an RPG very quickly. Brilliant game, but still not a clicker or incremental in the traditional sense.
Look out for micro transactions and predatory practices, “cough cough Mario Kart Tour cough cough”
The Phylum Order That pissed me off so much when I found out half the game was locked behind a paywall. It was so unlike Nintendo and as a diehard Nintendo fan, I was so disappointed. Not to mention I really don’t like how it’s formatted, but the paywall was the worst part because I know there are people out there who love the game but get stuck.
Oop-
It isnt even a real Mario Kart, never considered it one. A real shame we cant have a Mario Kart 9...
mario kart is garbage
Not all clicker games are bad, there are some really good ones like candy box 2 and a dark room.
candy box 2 is spectacular, and more than just a clicker.
And a dark room straightup isn't a clicker if we're talking about the same game :D
@@sintasweifell5144 It start as how clicker does.
If we are talking about the game that starts in a dark room.
Scrap Clicker 2 is something that seems to not have much recognition.
Also known as "Games you install when you're bored then uninstall within like a week"
The Adventure Capitalist music in the intro background brings back.. memories
Dude... Corn on Pizza is perfectly legitimate!
While my country be like:
“lEtS aDd eGgPlAntS aNd sQuAsH t0 pIzZa”
@@urspeciesfeces1823 feelsbadman.jpg
@@urspeciesfeces1823 big oof man
Better than pineapple at least
Oh man, I have a major problem when it comes to idle game addiction. I’ve been playing Cookie Clicker every day for 2 and a half years now. I even set it as my browser homepage.
60 hours in adventure? pfth i got 6000... don't ask
How did?- You know what NVM mind
@@strawberrydaily3625 did you say never mind mind?
its spelt nevurmiend my minds
@Red Trout lol
I have literally 10,843 hours of "gameplay" with Clicker Heroes. It's just running all the time my computer is turned on. Sometimes I just upgrade for 5 seconds and go do other stuff.
Umm. Well there is those weird other upfgrades right? Like i forget what they were called but they were actual upgrades. Not like cookie clicker
Waoh YOU’RE AT CHOCOLATE CHIP SENSEI?!
Teach me your ways
Auto clicker xddd
I'm pretty sure "chocolate chip sensei" is not a real thing in Cookie Clicker.
O reaaaaaaaally?
I never would have guessed
Did anyone notice when he said "oh golden cookie" he already had a golden cookie and he started clicking, but he never clicked a golden cookie?
*dont you dare make fun of corn on pizza*
With Meat and RedOnions!
@@ExFragMaster i like yellow onions :p
ya'll are insane
But what about incrementals with mechanics beyond clicking to increase resources?
Examples include Kittens, A Dark Room, Crank, Universal Paperclips, Space Lich Omega 2, and Trimps, among others (there's one I'm trying to remember which is just a demo but was really good, it was alchemy themed)
This video came off as just looking at bad incremental games, rather than engaging with the best the genre has to offer
Cookie Clicker has mechanics like that too, with gardens/little farming simulators, dungeons, dragons, the numerous events, etc. etc..
I would like to ask if there's anymore of these that you know of.
CJCatHead try candy box 2
I love the idea of an idle game. It gives me something to do in those small moments of downtime at work. However, I never stay engaged in the game for long.
you.... dont put corn on pizza? O.o
Yeah I don't get it. I understand people not liking pineapple on pizza, but sweetcorn is like one of the most common and normal toppings.
Maybe it's a joke because they are both yellow in colour?
@Gamerman629 Hype Squad Where do you live?
@@Jaxbo782 You probably live in a part of the world where it's not common. It's extremely common in Brazil, to the point that I don't think any Brazilian pizzerias would not offer it as a topping. Another poster said it was common in Israel.
Just eat the food.
yes officer? this comment right here
I legitimately love Cookie Clicker. It's a lot more involved than most idle games, and actually has some strategy to it. Which dragon auras do you use? What do you plant in your garden? Do you initiate the Grandmapocalypse or not? There are so many different mechanics, and they're introduced gradually as you play. There's even a dungeon-crawler mini-game in development!
But more importantly, I think it just has a lot more charm and creativity put into it than any other idle game. All the fantastic pixel art and the hilarious flavor text are a big incentive for me to keep progressing.
I dont think cookie clicker is as complex as many people said, sure you have all of that, but most of the extra building abilities barely makes any difference and the ones that did make difference are like the meta of the game to make an example. The game depends a lot of low chances to get the golden cookie bonus you want alongside the hand of fate ability. Is so tedious over time.
One of the hardest clicker games is Egg Inc. Basically, you raise a farm of chickens, and the more chickens you raise, the more valuable your farm becomes. When your farm gets valuable enough, you can sell it for a different farm. The game has a sort of story, but it's RIDICULOUSLY hard to to get to the final egg, let alone get halfway to it.
I can’t get the final Enlightenment Trophy :(
my favorite idle game is realm grinder, its starts off as your average clicker at first but then as you prgress is become less about clicking and more about stratagy as you try to pick the best choice of upgrades and what combination of faction/alignment to boost to be the most profitable or to achieve a required condition for an upgrade
It's my favorite too.
I love how much stuff changes, how previously effective thing go obsolete, you change the way you play, the new way that sucked before is good now, and later game turns itself 200 degrees and plays like a totally new game with what works and what doesn't shifting with each other unlock.
@Death It's not long before it gets fun again. If you hate playing neutral just get to prestige factions. You'll (probably)like it.
your still in the begining stage, once reincarnation starts the game gets into it adding more options, the first begining stage can take a while to get through unfortunately but that mainly becuase that was the original state of the game
Egg Inc. wants to know your location
pocoloco
whoops, i thought u said egg testing
I was about to comment that lol
*Warning: a partial review coming up ahead:*
There's one game that does real-time stuff semi-right: Tsuki Adventure. It's mostly because it's the main mechanic and it just works. The main character is Tsuki, a rabbit who got bored of the city life and decided to live on a farm.
By default, your farm gives you 50 carrots (which are used as currency) every 2 hours. It might look like a regular "wait 50 hecking hours for anything to happen or sell a kidney to do it instantly", but waiting seems very natural in this specific case. You kind of feel like you're on that farm waiting for carrots to grow, most likely because the world isn't your standard copy-paste top-down view of a city and has actual characters and lore in it. You can also speed up the whole process by fishing, which is kind of like clicker games, but without any upgrades. It actually feels like any other video game fishing.
It does have microtransactions, but you have to be very impatient to want to buy these, since farming carrots is fairly easy after you get the golden ticket for the fiest time. There's a dog that gives you 300 carrots after watching an ad and most items are in the 100-1000 carrots price range. You still have to wait for him to appear though.
I feel like Tsuki Adventure is kind of in the gray area.
Have you been losing weight? You look great!
wait what
"Using real time to drive your progress is a manipulative tactic"
Oh hello Warframe, didn't see you over there.
OOOOOHHHHH
I really want to believe, that this subtype of games came to live, as an Satire of Quick time events
Of course, Adventure Capitalist music in the background.
That's also the main reason why so many people do not believe me about Kongregate being an amazing flash game site which is a total shame. Hell, I've played Mardek and it's big and good like an actual console RPG even for a flash game made by a single person. Yeah, I rather enjoy playing Splatoon and Touhou because these two game series are super fun and skill-based and I can simply take breaks freely at anytime.
there is a good game that works with this idea. it's a web based game called "a dark room" . it uses the idea of clicking on things to get more things to click on... then unfolds a story around it as you play and you learn what happened... what your goal is... it's amazing how much depth this text based clicker game is
Yea that was a fun game since you have to manage multiple resources and people
You have got to try Candybox and Candybox2. These are idle/incremental games that both actually have an endstate, and are way more fun than most clickers too. Although they're not really clickers per se. But they are idlers.
Also the Kittens Game. Don't investigate that. I lost more time to that than cookie clicker, adventure capitalist and realm grinder combined.
Cookie clicker is a treasure to our society.
True
Snoman: "They don't have an end. You don't beat them."
Me, only about 20 achieves from having them all and therefore beating cookie clicker: "Mh. Yes.. No end."
Im watching this with my cookie clicker running in the background
3:48 How the hell did you get all of the achievements in spelunky
He was originally a Spelunky channel
Omg, that Adventure Capitalist music at the start, traumas coming back
hey Snoman
I remember a very long time ago you posted a video about a clicker game (I think it was capitalist adventure) and I wrote comment about how these are the worst type of games, and you agreed with me, I couldn't find the video now :(
anyway I just wanted to add : is that this generation is used to having something running in the back ground, wither its a game or facebook notification, we always feel the need to check for something, and this is why these games are so popular now, if we started creating them in the 90's they won't be as popular as they are today.
also this "need" to check or the constant engagement is really destroying our ability to concentrate and memorize (memorizing happens when you let your brain think about what he just learnt in the back ground) but what happens instead is when you watch a good video or read something intersting, instead of letting your brain analyze and think about what you just learnt, you switch to facebook or clicker game, cutting your chain of ideas without even noticing
Lol you look like nas daily
I liked Cookie Clicker because of the silly 'events' (grandmapocalypse) and messages it would give. Did get a bit fatigued after a point, though.
3:23 anyone else think Skinner Box sounds like a torture device
I feel your complaint about how the slow gain of progress being a medium for micro transactions deserved at least a mention of Clicker Heroes 2. They were worried about people overspending on it, so they made it a single flat purchase, with no in game microtransactions. You buy the game, now you have the game. People who like idle games will be interested, those who don't won't bother. The subgenre isn't evil the way you seem to be painting it here
That is interesting I didn't know that
He did mention and show cookieclicker a lot which is free and has no microtransactions.
Not all clicker games are shallow. Check out Sandcastle builder. It's got a ton of depth, puzzles, innovative logic problems, and time travel. It's a game for hard core idle players, so it's okay if you try it and can't get into it.
Mainstream idle games are usually meh, though.
There're games online called Candy Box and Candy Box 2 which revolve around waiting and sometimes clicking, but there's a sort of story within it so I found it really interesting to play through.
These types of games also hurt the game community as a whole, as game developers have no incentive to make actually good games if these type of games make more money.
IKR!
Stop basing the genre on the worst only.
By your logic, ALL games are bad
That is abso-fucking-lutely not true, stop blowing things out of proportion.
@@L4Depicness123 Please elaborate. I would like to hear your reasoning, rather than just your statement.
@@mangocrafters no lmao