7 Game Design Mistakes to Avoid!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Game design mistakes can cost you time, money, and quality! In this video we are going to give you game design tips straight from expert game designers that will ensure you save time, money, and build excellent designs. These are the same tips that we’ve seen used while building smaller indie games all the way up to massive triple-A titles.
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We did a similar video on game development mistakes - check it out: th-cam.com/video/HbhdTt4IgPk/w-d-xo.html
Ask Gamedev can u make a vid about how or ways to learn how to code online for free and which coding language to learn to make games
Aka: the aka people
444K views
man me like an exemple i cant run my game its out of memory NOOOOOOOOO
Check out my New Game. jaymehta.itch.io/spooky-bird
#9 mistake - watch random youtube videos instead of actually making your game :)
Why not both :)
haha, you have been looking at to many video's... you know what's going on..
Hey - education is important, this 10-minute video can save someone months of development time!
Damn, why is this so relatable
Mistake #9 - Rushing into game development instead of properly doing your research.
30 years in the industry and I've found how to perfectly estimate the time any large project is going to take using the following formula:
1. Break the design down into individual, precise and bounded tasks.
2. For each task, estimate how long you think it will take. If there's no answer, then the task needs breaking down more.
3. For each task, add on time until the revised estimate is longer than it will possibly take.
4. Tally up the times.
5. Double it.
That's how long the project will take. Don't know why but I've never known this fail.
greatly helpful, thanks! I am running a game dev camp for youth and this is a fantastic breakdown!
So Star Citizen will take a 100 years that's what you're saying
I know why. Point 5 is a genius and the most humble thought you can put in an estimation of any kind xD
Thanks for the breakdown. Super awesome ^^
My guess as to why all the added time is more accurate is because you estimate the time based on how long it took you before, but as you add to the game it becomes geometrically (not exponentially) more complicated so time taken to add and fix features takes longer and longer as the game grows larger. Then polishing and tested takes way longer than expected.
Definitely Number 5, The first thing I do after estimating the time is double it.
Another mistake, that I'm unfortunately guilty of repeating over and over: abandoning one game that's in development to begin working on another. When you have many ideas, and the current project is at a point where the necessary work is a bit boring or tedious, it's so easy to just tell yourself, "Well, I'll just work on this new thing for a little, then come back to the main project." And then suddenly, you haven't touched the main project in months and have lost all motivation for it.
I think a solution to this problem (that I really should take my own advice about...) is to write down ideas for other projects. Keep design docs for them, but don't actually start working on them until the current project is either done or dusted for some other reason. Especially if game development is currently more of a hobby, and you have a day job taking your time, motivation is a key factor.
I can actually supply a very pertinent real-world example of my comment. I once worked on a relatively small game dev team, but we were all hobbyists. No one was getting paid for this or anything, we all just liked game development and wanted to work together. It started out fine, with us working on one game, though without much team organization. Then, one by one, people started coming up with ideas for "our next game": "Ooh, what if we made this?" "Here's a cool idea!" So we made little forums for each idea, to discuss it... and then people started making art for them... and music... and code... and suddenly we were working on 3 games at the same time, and none were making any progress. I had a meeting with the two leads of the team about it, and they told me they wanted me to help organize things; so I came up with a team structure (artists report to the lead artist, who reports to the project manager, who reports to the team manager; etc.) and a Gantt chart for what needed to be done and when. I locked the forums for all but the main project, letting them stay so they could be opened when we were ready, but making sure we couldn't post work for them. And then... the project leads decided I was managing too much (that was THEIR job, apparently) and told me to back off. I realized nothing would come of the team, so I politely resigned.
I checked back a few years later, and the team had disbanded, with not a single project even halfway complete, and the team was removed from the project leaders' resumes. Kind of how I figured things would go.
TL;DR: Work on ONE project at a time. Just one. Because more than that will destroy all the projects simultaneously.
We couldn't agree more! Keep it simple, and watch out for feature-creep!
totally agree. thanks for the advice
I strongly agree, it happened to me too many times... Solid advice right there!
I think at the least you should carry the lessons you learn from the last attempt of a game to realize what your limits are and work around them to have a more successful shot at the next one. Also your hobby game dev experience sounds like a daunting one. When I was interested in getting into my first indie game project, a colleague got me in a group video chat with a few other people. I expected 3 or 4 people but whoa there were 10 and it was hard to keep up as someone just joining the chat the first time to hear what is going on. There seemed to be a lack of a "leader" to guide the discussion I guess.
On the more extreme end I see amateur "game dev" groups that have no working product yet, just ideas, but are trying to recruit beta testers! That's craziness.
Video starts at 1:23
Thank you
no video starts at 00:00
rEaLlY?!
I saw this comment too late
Thx dude
Ah yes, the classic "throw the ball at the hoop and it collapses and catches fire" bug.
Really plagues a bunch of newbies with their new sports game.
Xd
Damn
lol
Table of contents
1. 1:22 Starting too big
2. 2:38 Not considering how to onboard the player
3. 4:01 Being too committed to an idea
4. 5:06 Creating an overly rigid design
5. 6:18 Focusing on story too much upfront
6. 6:59 Underestimating polish
7. 7:42 Arbitrarily adding things
you're the chad
I think Yandere Dev should see this
Especially the #7
fcantil I choked
If it wasn't for this comment, I wouldn't remember of the existence of that one
Hell yeah he should!
I was _just_ thinking about him when I saw #1, too.
Interesting this vid came out after the scandal blew up...
Another tip: Always precise everything. Schematize, illustrate and prototype as much as you can so your team can share your vision of the game. Particularly true for game jams and new projects. Often you think everyone is on the same page but then realize each member has a different mental image of the final product, thus you fail maintaining a coherent vision. While it's important to allow room for everyone's creativity, as a GD you've got to be as precise as you can in your design documents so to avoid team members going in all directions then asking you to clarify points every 10mn.
agreed! i just made a video on this same thing!
So yeah, I got a degree in bscs major in game dev. And I live in a province where there's only 3 companies that develop video games. The (one man) CEO/Client/Producer of the company I applied to, pitched the game to my face and I got all excited because in the back of my head it's a very hyper casual game and it's on mobile platform. And yes I got the job as an intern until I got absorbed in the company as a technical artist. 3 years later I'm already working on a call center as an agent. Why? What did I miss? For the whole three years we got stuck on developing a mobile game. Why? It's supposed to be hyper casual and supposedly done in 3 months.
#7 Arbitrarily Adding Things
In this video is very agreeable on my situation.
Our one man genius CEO/Client/Producer is a retired lawyer and has no background in the video game industry, nor game developing or even pop culture of games. What he did is he lives in the Capital of my country and fly by plane twice a month to check us and visit the studio in the province. Everytime he comes back in the studio he has a new fresh ideas and he calls it "juicy ideas" because it's fresh. What happened is he keeps adding features, new codes, new art from scratch that needs to be polished for months and all the shit he wants to say on a 5-7 hours of nonsense round table meeting. We don't clearly see the end. Or the finished product of the game, we can't even have feedbacks because he wants this tactic of secrecy, and avoid alphas and betas. He didn't even know what's the word PATCH for fuck sake. After 3 years the company pulled out. Because the employees are planning to resign for already a long time plan but one day our best programmer got hired on a different company, fused the bomb, and made everyone to make one decision. To boycott and do a mass resignation. Why did it took that long for us to realize we are going nowhere? Because he's bloody rich. I got blinded and got a raise TWICE. A big money every month for a game development? So good to be true. Now my consequence is I did not grow in that company. Not even a percent. I got rejected to the 2 other game dev companies.
I took everything for granted now somehow I'm out of the line in the video game industry. Now I got obsessed and retracing everything I did wrong. Making my own indie game, selling 2d & 3d assets online, bought a high end PC just to make my portfolio stronger. consulting my friends consulting my mentors, teachers. Opinions here opinions there, ideas here and ideas there. Yada yada yada. That at the same time my current job is not even in game development.
Moral lesson: is don't take Game Dev (especially when you're on a start-up indie company) unless it's a calling for you. If it is then take the leap of faith and prepare to be hurt, prepare to be in pain, prepare to be criticised, prepare to lose. And hope that one day it will all be worth it.
"Our one man genius CEO/Client/Producer is a retired lawyer and has no background in the video game industry, nor game developing or even pop culture of games. "
Honestly, that right there was most likely the biggest problem. People underestimate how poor management and poor producing can make it basically impossible for a project to succeed. I also just know that the whole 'unlimited funding' approach is quite stupid and just does not work. You need strict limitations, deadlines and proper release date target etc. Plenty of games have tried the whole 'anything goes' approach and basically all of them failed.
Dang. That's painful right there. Hope it works out for you.
Out of curiosity, what was the game that you made?
You say you can't get another job in the games industry because there are only 3 games companies local to you... Well, why don't you just apply for jobs elsewhere and think about relocating? I'm in England, which has plenty of games companies, but 0 are local to my town, but I don't care, games are my life, whether it is making them or playing them, I will be applying for jobs in England, the USA, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, Germany, Italy, I don't really care so long as I can make my contributions in the games industry. Iv already turned a couple of jobs down as I am still studying. Don't ever give up on your dreams man, working in a call center must be driving you crazy when you have these talents just sitting on the backburner.
Holy shit I feel you ! That is a hard story. I make games just for fun, and I work as a software developer part time to get money and also have time for my projects. You always get a job when you can code. You dont have to work in a callcenter!
“Wouldn’t it be cool if the protagonist had a crush.”
Nathaniel Beyer O-o
69 nice
working on games for 8 years I'd like to add "not starting with a plan" - this is a huge factor that plays into your chances of completing a game - of course your plan is going to change but it gives you a good sense of direction - just remember, not having a plan is the same as planning to fail - goodluck on all your games
Here's a tip for people working on their first project: Figure out what size the screen is going to be as early as possible, and scale your assets accordingly. When I started my current project, I was so proud of my sprites that I zoomed the camera in too far. After building a super basic tutorial level, I realized that there wasn't enough space on the screen to make more complex encounters. You can't artificially change asset proportions in-engine without warping pixels and making your game's art style look inconsistent, so I had to build a bunch of sprites all over again and re-design my tutorial level from the ground up. Don't do what I did - Plan your screen size!
This video is so clear and spot on! I would have to disagree with the examples given for making a game less rigid, they felt far too specific. Open world games can still feel heavy handed if the game tries to make you travel to certain locations and avoid others too much. Destructive levels can still feel boring if there is 1 way that best destroys the terrain (like destroying the base of a building auto-destroys everything above). etc.
A big thing is making sure multiple decisions are balanced against each other to prevent a dominant path.
I guess what I'm trying to say is those items don't automatically add more choice to a game, there's more to the story than that, and some people may not pick up on that after watching this.
There's also the fact that sometimes you WANT to lead a player down a specific path that's more fun, rather than trying to throw every available gameplay option at them. It's like salt and pepper, you need both.
I super agree with you. The "don't make your game too rigid" argument made by the creators of this video wasn't very convincing.
Good to see I'm not the only one who didn't really agree with that tip. I actually like classic/retro games for their rigidity. It certain cases, it can even make them unique. I don't like open-world games too much. Too many things and too many distractions. And they end up looking all the same. And very repetitive. It's also not fun for someone like me, because I want to complete a game as much as possible, without having to play it 4 times, because I missed stuff. A game has to be really, really, really good for me to play it several times in a row. For me, that only works with arcade type games. Mainly why I like racing games, fighting games and beat'm ups. Short, sweet and a joy to blast through again and again.
Oh wow, it's like Extra Credits back when they made video about games.
I miss Dan.
*The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium, The Medium,*
They still make videos about games
Same
@@AhmedAli-tq5nj but is not The same
One game design mistake that annoys me immensely is restrictive controls that don't account for different player situations. This might sound minor, but for instance, enforcing WASD in detriment to arrow keys (especially when using the mouse as well) has turned me off several indie games... because I'm left-handed and that just doesn't work for me. Be flexible, people, or at least let us configure it!
That's an excellent point, Dark Unykorn. Accessibility is super important! Thanks for sharing this with the Ask Gamedev community!
Thank you for the reply!
I'm left-handed and I use WASD (and right-handed controls) as when I started playing video games, that was the only control scheme I used, for some reason.
In other words you have the same problem I have with many games. They either make controls unchangeable in the controls options menu, or don't have an options menu at all.
Another problem I have with their game design is restrictive controls in the sense of gears Of War and Lost Planet 2. You're not free to roam and do gameplay how you want it, they restrict your movement and actions to specific places and feels almost like you're stuck on rails and to allowed to jump and climb as you want to
i'm left handed and i use wasd and right-hand mouse perfectly
Not being dedicated enough. I started so many games with people from college, but never finished one game. Because we met once a week. For an hour. For about 3 weeks. After that everyone was busy with something and then it was once a month. once every 6 weeks. Never again
Thanks for your addition Frederic! That's so true - it can definitely be hard to wrangle a group to make a game together, but it's even more difficult to keep momentum and consistency going, especially when it's not a major focus for every member.
@@AskGamedev Yeah we had tests and such and that is fine. But I wrote them over and over again, told them in class and so on. Nothing. We also started with a quite complicated Card game. It wasnt fun, when we tried it as a prototype. So I said we should start small, with a 2D jump'n'run, just running and jumping first. Then create and test levels. When that is done go to collectibles. When that is done enemies. Then Powerups.
Maybe they didnt want to do that. We never went past running and jumping.
@@fresch4395 That's too bad how it turned out, but you had the right idea :)
I always underestimate step 6, even though Polish is my first language.
"Don't make a game too big with too many features"
"You should make your game have a ton of features and possibilities"
Kinda goes against itself, doesn't it?
the tricks is making the game with just enough features to open a ton of possibilities for the player
The difference is complexity vs depth. Tic tac toe is a game with little complexity, but little depth. You want to design games like chess, with almost impossibly large depth but without overly complicated rules.
Pivoting from small scales in to more features and polishing them seems to be one of the main points here
Make a game from the core he said, like you're doing a fps parkour game, you First make the parkour and moving system, and the make the Guns enemys and ALL these kind of thing, basically start from the simple create the Big after
Those features should all make sense with each other and not like a one-use trick you will never need again
I like this video a lot, but the minute and a half wait to get to it nearly made me go to something else. The intro stuff could be cut down and the credits could be at the end. Other than that, I think this video is very well put together and touches on some very good points.
Thanks for your feedback UndeadWaffles! We're definitely trying to shorten down our intros - check out our newer videos for the new intro format. Thanks again for watching!
This channel is infinitely better than Extra Credits, so much care goes into being as objective as possible in these videos and being about real solid and universal advice that can apply to anyone in any situation, and isn't extremely opinionated about principles and types of design that are very subjective.
7:00 never underestimate Polish just because of WW2
"When you don't know how to make a game so all you can do is story." Rip
just use twine lol
- "Polish, polish, polish"
- "Feature *progess* bar"
You can just skip ahead to 1:20
Everything before that is rubbish fluff
I hate fluff, ty.
I'm so freaking hyped that I was able to analyse, put words and work toward solutions for all those common mistakes, as a solo amateur game creator since 10 years !
I lived to know and see countless "collegues" fall down, and me surviving and growing strong, by understanding those mistakes.
I still struggle with some of them, of course !
But yes, I can testify how right those advices are.
Ideas are legions so just consider those who get factually produced, start as small as possible if you want to build gigantic skyscrapers, adapt and don't waste too much time being stubborn on details or potential deadends, give your players several ways to play and let them choose, never leave behind new/clueless players, etc...
This all resonnate so much...
Thanks for sharing!
"A delayed game is eventually good but a rushed game is forever bad"
Meanwhile MGS:5 and FF15...
I’ve learned so much from this video. I’m heading a project and felt a bit over my head. This video helped to bring things more to perspective and now I have a better idea of how to tackle it!
Always enjoy watching some of these videos as reminders and a bit of general encouragement honestly lol.
We stay focused pretty well and I'd like to at least THINK that we are on the right path with avoiding these issues. Only time will tell though lol. Appreciate the videos though for certain.
4:18 great, now i want to make an excite bike sequel... as if i didnt have enough half done projects, thanks a lot ask gamedev!! lol no great vids guys!! as a programmer making games on spare time, your vids on project management and post game development are exactly what i need, real thanks this time!
“I SAW DESIGN”
well someone’s a dad
👨
Very useful tips! I'd like to emphasize one thing though: while trying to follow tip 4 (overly rigid design), try not to fall in all the other pits. It's extremely easy to overcomplicate a game trying to make it less rigid, ending up with a massive feature creep.
Honestly, I'd put it as the very last tip: do it after everything else already works and you feel you need to add some diversity in the gameplay.
Other than that, awesome video! The production quality is top-notch! :)
Really enjoying my time on your Discord and going through all these videos from start to finish.
That's really awesome to hear 😀. What are you most interested in learning about?
@@AskGamedev my fave videos are development tips but mostly the ones on marketing. I would really like to see a full video on Sales Funnels.
concept for my first game: You play as a circle thing that was broken into six pieces, and you have to complete five levels to get the pieces you're missing. the only mechanic is jumping. that's it. you move constantly, can move boxes by pushing, and can pass by motion sensors/buttons to push them. First level teaches you everything you need to know. there's a box here, you can move it. but you can't get it to this tower thing because there's already a box there. you double jump and get to the other side, collecting your inner shell, giving you one more hit point. second level: same thing, but there's only one box to push. you push it, jump over the tower, congrats, you beat second level, get outer shell. Third level: two sensors, sensing when something is in front of them. each one opens a door, but the door closes after you pass it. push the boxes in front of sensors, you beat third level, collect first antenna. Fourth level: finally, some platforms. jump on them, hit switch, go back, collect second antenna. Fifth level: a combination of all the other levels, with sensors, boxes, towers you gotta jump over, and platforms. the only threat being some dark circles that hurt you, giving you a crack. this is why you need the extra hit points. there is also one dark circle in all other levels, just to show you that they are a threat, as well as showing you that your layers give you hit points. when you complete the fifth and final level, you get your eyes, walk through a door, done. There is, however, another way to play the game. when you beat it, you unlock different characters, and have to revise on how to play. There's even a "moveable" mode after completion that unlocks the ability to destroy or move everything. boom, new ways to play. it's a fairly decent concept for a first game, especially considering it's a first. don't go for something big. sure, the media only focuses on one member of a team, saying "This man made [insert game] all by themselves!" but that's not true, they require dozens of workers for something good, at least fifty for something great, and about a hundred for something awesome. one person is only gonna be able to dispense one piece of God of War if they're skilled enough, but it'll take about fifty to make an entire God of War. anyway, what do you think? what should i name it? seriously, what should i name it, i'm out of ideas.
Skip to 1:24 for the actual list because you dont have time
Me not knowing a lick of code or anything in general: "ah yes...stonks..."
New sub, loves your video!
Number 4 is a bit of a weird point tho, I think it depends on what kind of game you wanna create. For example, Rhythm Heaven is an amazingly fun series! Yet the only inputs you can do is hit the corresponding buttons at the right timing.
Hi Ask GameDev,
My friend always talks down on 2d games like side scrollers and refuses to admit that there are certain game design advantages to both 3D and 2d games.
Could you make a video describing the pros and cons of 2d and 3D game design?
Thanks for the videos!
Hi Hylian Toxicated (funny name btw) - thanks for your video idea! We'll add it to the list. Both have advantages and limitations, but there's definitely room for innovation in both spaces. It's interesting to think about and we'll explore this further. In the meantime, tell your friend to check out games like Celeste and Dead Cells!
Ask Gamedev Thanks! I look forward to more videos!
and terraria
Personally I think there needs to be much less 2d games and much more 3d platformers like Rayman 3 and Psychonauts. Not Super Lucky's Tale but Ghost of A Tale.
There are many great 2d platformers but there are so many dime a dozen that it gets stale. I always hate 2d arena games that has much corridors and scrolling view as Smash Bros is a good design with much flexibility but other games with shooting mechanics gets very broken when you can't see a shot or aim.
Plus 3d platformers don't get much love but has much more potential and possibilities because of that cause nobody has made it all yet so there's a lot more to be made and tried plus a full open world to explore and experience all around you compared to a background image or a simple shooter that focus on linear gameplay or bland empty open areas with little going up or down like in Rayman 2
3d games are way harder to make especially for indie game makers that's really why
I really don't understand why you don't have 100k+ subs, right now, no one makes videos like yours and personally i think every game dev should watch this, what i understand though is everything you talked about, awesome video as always :)
Hey thanks for the kind words, William! We'll keep putting out our content, and hopefully we can work our way up to 100k :) Are there any topics in particular that you'd like us to cover?
@@AskGamedev maybe hardware recommended for game devs, i am fairly new to your channel and very new to game development so i really don't know what you haven't covered yet
Edit: not only hardware like your gpu, cpu and parts needed for you pc (if you use a pc of course) but also other things game devs should own to make things easier
I can so agree to this comment
Just exactly what I think.
try watching the old extra credits videos they ripped from. atleast you wont have this shameless fanboying in the name of advice.
This video proves that you are experienced in game development and these facts are really important if you are doing creative work, thanks bro and I subscribed
Thanks for the sub, Vchep! Let us know if there's anything in particular about gamedev that you'd like us to cover!
create a video player avater creation software for game development please because this kind of video will rare on the internet .
Your first mistake was not getting to the point till 1:24. :P Thx though! I love how you put the points you covered on the side for reference. More people should do that!
Good list. Pretty accurate for me at least. It took me 3 finished games to learn all those lessons.
5:56 this is also known in the geography of a game as "Linear design", levels with long hallways and corridors make for good atmosphere, but unless you branch off from this design your game is going to suffer majorly: there are actually some linear segments in amnesia the dark descent some have labelled as boring because it was walking through a curved hallway that is moreso just a straight path with no hazards.
Great video! Playtesting really is crucial!
I should've watched this video years ago, haha! I've made every single mistake in this video 😂. Great video though!
Thanks! Have you made any other mistakes that we missed? I'm sure the Ask Gamedev community would like to hear more.
Thank you so much for excellent videos like these guys! you rock!
Great tips! Thanks guys! :)
ive start my game too big, now i know that's a wrong idea haha
thanks, you explained it well, ive learn so much💖
waitching here from: philipines🇵🇭
I'm making my first game, and this helped a lot! Thanks, and I subbed!
7:00 well now you've just triggered the Germans
Seriously, I was like "what do Polish people have to do with this???"
True, all the Polish people (me included) in that moment were like: "yeah men don't even try to underestimate us!" to then be like: "oh, that's what you meant lol"
I'm german and that's the worst thing for me.
Why? As far as I know the Germans even OVER*estimated the Polish followed by crushing the entire Polish army in about 18 days?
Nice tips, while watching this I realized i had an ongoing problem with my current project, thanks!
“Akin to painting by numbers”? If I can recall correctly, that was a very successful app.
Have you made any mistakes in game design? Share your game design stories with your fellow subscribers in the comments! Thanks for watching!
Tried to make saving system. Failed. Destroyed the game. Didn't have backed up files...
starting the game based on a story
The biggest mistake I've made was not focusing on the core aspects first. I had some interesting ideas, but because of the lack of core mechanic, the game just ended up not being fun. I still have that one on the back burner, simmering while I rethink the core (and I still have all the assets I paid for), but have moved on to other games where I think more in an onion-design approach.
Just starting to work on features without actually thinking them through, it almost always ends up being a huge waste of time, because either youll get spaghetti code and have to redo it, or it just doesnt really work with the rest of the game
I'm happy making them right now.
Hi Ask Gamedev ,
I'm really glad I found your channel .
Great tips thank you! I’m making my first rpg and these tips are very helpful.
"The best music, art, engineering, and marketing in the world can't save a game from poor design."
Bungie, EA, Activision and the like seem to disagree.
Number 1: To me. Think big, start smart.
I have a grand big vision. But I know exactly what I want and how hard it it. So I watch and play games with similar feels and gameplay I want so I focus on one single part first to make it perfect enough to be a starting point to be able to test things with it. Like the controls.
I start simple making him move, then accelerate, then jumping, making a good jump, fine tuning it, making it possible to change and vary the jump, then the speed.
Once it's done I do it again, only this time I use a different method and design.
Number 2: My approach is to think like an mmo rpg. You stop playing for a few days or weeks and come back and suddenly you have 15 windows pop up and an inventory of stuff you have no idea what it does or why you made it like that and then you have your strategies and builds that you don't remember how they work or what they do.
Start the game with nothing and subtly teach the player new things. Like having an enemy or npc use or demonstrate an item randomly somewhere without it being a cutscene or a must watch. Just another enemy doing stuff in the background. And keep the controls simple enough to easily pick it up and play as usual without having to practice for 30 minutes on your killer combos.
Number 3: Make it, play it, share it and improve it. Simple.
Number 4: This is the most difficult part. In Blood or almost any old game you can see these awesome and hilarious tricks like throwing a dynamite and flying to a key you'd need another key and path to get. Or some really awesome ability combos to really experiment and develop new strategies like the Pyro in TF2 firing a flare gun to launch himself at the enemy and ambush them. This is actually very hard to make as it must also work with the level design and physics and gameplay in the game.
Number 5: Game first, story after. You need to make the game and then figure out how the story is told through the gameplay and world like how one enemy suddenly has a slightly different pattern or reaction to it's prior encounter or other encounters to tell their story in a subtle way. A perfect example is in Mother 3 as every foe has a heartbeat that beats to the battle theme and you can combo in sync with it but one particular foe has a lack of rhythm and later has no heartbeat to tell a little about him and both to make the gameplay a little more interesting when fighting him.
6: 100 little bugs in the code 100 little bugs, you take one out patch it around you got 125 little bugs in the code.
Back to number 1. Start with the main controls and polish the mechanics to *perfection* nothing less. It must be flexible and have as little bugs and glitches as possible so you can easily apply and test new enemies and actions with him.
So if you make an inventory and equip and item then use it and it fucks up. Then you know it's the item's code that is wrong not the player. And if you have polished the player enough then you're familiar enough with him to be able to work in new things and make sure it works. Keep your code and functions organized.
The only problem is PUBLISHERS ARE IDIOTS! They need to be told games are hard and take TIME lot's of time. It must be perfect and can't ever be rushed or it's gonna suck. It's their fault if it fails cause they don't know anything about making a game.
7: I want to add a glider and a hook, but how would I implement that? Taking all of these ideas I have, I develop a simple fun solution. I make a new category of utility items that are activated on command by pressing the f key. How will it react with other items? Can they combo? Should they combo? How does status effects work on them?
Work on the core system to easily be able to add, change and remove stuff while also being able to test them and implement them. But MAKE SURE they are relevant to the gameplay. A glider ability isn't much fun in an underground cave area with little space to fly in or enemies and levels designed to be on the ground and gets easily skipped over by the glider ability and removing much of the game for no reason. Though I don't like Thomas Was Alone and I don't encourage simple designs and looks as it's just too much right now with so many low poly games and bland 16 bit games that look nice but don't have much to show
Much of what you brought up is game dev, not game design.
@@seansopata5121 You design your development the same you design your game.
No. Game design involves no coding.
I agree with all of your points and i get #4 overly rigid design, but just adding open world elements is not a good general formular, it can help a lot of times, but sometimes a linear experiences is exactly what you want. It is more about introducing new things, learning and mastering them. If i only have the option to fight three enemies and end the level it may look rigid, but the combat requires enough skill to make it challenge and just before the player masters those fights he gets a new twist to his weapons arsenal or abilities. It is more about the flow chart that is quite commonly known.
I was skimming through comments looking for this.. Up to this point, everything was, well, on point, about game design ideas that could be used for just about any kind of game, but this point sort of pidgeon holds your game into being more like very specific kinds of games and less the kind of game you want to make. The only saving grace that point has is using Bro Force as an example, since it's a mostly linear game.
The open world part though, without a proper example of how to do it well and in a way that feels fun and doesn't fall into the exact overly rigid game design presented earlier, that's what that point should've been about, not falling into an overly rigid and generic pitfall in either cases, in the case of a linear style game, or an open world one, because either one can be just as enjoyable, or not fun to play in the slightest, if done very poorly.
Plus, making open world that is enjoyable is an extremely difficult task that even big publishing developers with decades of experience struggle with, this is a very ridiculous point when you take that into consideration and the reputation of open world elements injected into games for no reason..
great video! thanks Ask Gamedev!
7:36 Take that, Sega.
13 years ago anyways
Rise of lyric wasn’t really rushed until it was discovered that sega wanted the game on the wii u, still worse than 06 though
You're right, don't underestimate the Polish! Polen can into space! xD
5:55 Metroidvania games are a good example of this concept
Some good advice here. Develop a simple prototype and add ideas as they present themselves. Also game testing needs to be done by the general public, early on in the development. This is a good test of intuitive design. If the game really is intuitive, then they will be able to play it straight away. The best games are easy to play straight off and take time to really master.
I make games on scratch, so I don't have to worry about money and all that stuff, but I do get frustrated when I get carried away with ideas and end up not finishing the game, this list is very helpful with all the tips.
Definitely helpful, thanks for this list!
This video is actually dope. Great advice!!!!! Thanks!
Some of the best game dev content on youtube !!!
Wow this is awesome I'm starting a gaming channel but I wanted to integrate actual game design and knowledge to the discussions/reviews
I think rushing and scope creep might be my biggest mistake, but this video got me thinking of the rest too
Thank you, this was helpful : )
Handsome Boy Modeling School reference! Nice!!
Small correction: Mega Man 7 was not designed (nor directed) by Tokuro Fujiwara and Keiji Inafune. Fujiwara was the Producer, and Inafune had nothing to do with this game. Inafune isn't even a game designer. He's been an illustrator and later became a producer since MM8.
Totally brilliant Video, Amazing tips
Great video ! good job ;)
love the animation that goes with the tips thanks
I'm a solo indie game dev and you really give good advices. I already subbed and watch your videos a lot!
+King Reigns thanks so much! Let us know if you want us to cover any specific topics in future videos!
Probably I think what's needed for now is a video on tips, advices, or guidelines in making/designing/publishing indie games as a solo developer :) You already covered on how games are made with a team, we wanna watch a video on how to do it as a solo dev. Since being a solo indie game dev, you alone, must do all the designing, modeling, coding, and publishing which is really difficult and sometimes can be frustrating. Not to mention, you could easily get off-tracked or get discouraged, since you are your own team leader and motivator, if you feel tired, so is the leader of the team thus resulting for the project being unfinished. We would really like to see a video covering these stuffs :) :D
7:00 Underestimating Polish.
Meanwhile Polish people: Kurwa!
How did I just now find this channel? I have been a game designer for almost a year now.
Glad to have you here Dev6Rehab! How did you hear about us?
You were magically in my recommended screen on youtube.
This video was great! Totally educational, only sad part is I'm about 3 years late in watching it!
Great Video! Like+subbed. I find the comments here especially interesting!! Im currently in a situation where I have enough time for personal projects but for abot two years I just do online courses because I wanted to improve skills... when is it time to stop the courses and do my own projects again?
Awesome video!
Thank you for the tips!
I am starting out as a ytber and honestly this video helped me a lot.Recently i though i make really shitty videos and wanted to make a good one with awesome editing just like the pros,it ended up as a 3 hour waste because i just couldnt understand how to put up an idea properly and didnt want to let go.This taught me its okay to do that :)
I just found this channel it's awesome.
A problem I suffer from too much when I wanna make a game: Starting too big and not having the commitment to finish it. It seems good on mind and on paper, but when I actually try to make the game I either stop when it gets too hard for me to understand it myself or I give up before I even make a sprite.
Woah, this vid is so useful! You deserve more subs :D ty!
"Ideas are a dime a dozen". Yeah, heard that one many times. But actually, good ideas are very rare (and thus very expensive).
A good idea means you do less work, or earn much more money with the same invested effort.
People who think all ideas are similar, and worth almost nothing, never had a good idea in their life.
Hey what do you use for your video graphics? It looks great!
This Vide4o Taught me a lot. Thankyou so much.
Is that a Great Value Mega Man?! XD
The biggest mistake of all is thinking that you need to follow a set of rules. This is a very good video and makes a lot of very good and helpful points (the only point I fundamentally disagree with is point 4), but a big mistake that a lot of people make in any creative medium is believing that there is a set of rules and you cannot break these rules. Every single one of the points in this video has a count point, and I will use examples of successful games where possible.
1. Starting too big - I over all agree with this point, but this isn't always a problem because you can use a reductive process to take away ideas that don't work from your initial grand idea.
2. On boarding your player - Minecraft is one of the most successful games of all time, and yet gained traction whilst requiring most new players to google how to play the game.
3. Idea Commitment - I can't think of an example for this because I would need more insight into the dev of the games I've played, but it's certainly possible that an idea that sounded really fun is only bad in your implementation because you haven't fine tuned it well enough, and that rather than giving up on it you should put more effort into it.
4. Overly rigid design - Completely ignore everything this video said about this point. Many game types are served by rigid design such as platformers and puzzle games. I in fact believe the opposite to be more often true; many games feel watered down or too easy because they give the player too much choice in how they should advance or add open world elements and secrets that feel shoehorned in or distract from what's actually fun about the game; found yourself loving fire emblem games, but getting annoyed by having to spend so much time running around the academy in FE3H?. Including lots of paths often leads to a player feeling like they might be missing out; ever felt frustrated in a gears of war game because you picked the path that didn't have the secret collectable and the game didn't let you backtrack?
5. Don't focus too much on story - See the entire genre of "Walking Simulator" (side point, he mentions mario games in this section, which going back to point 4 tend to have rigid game design in their 2d versions - the least fun part about 2d mario games for me personally is feeling like I have to try pressing down on every single pipe just in case one has a secret).
6. Polish, Polish, Polish - I agree with this point. I love polished games. I personally can't get into games like Skyrim or Dwarf Fortress due to Skyrim's jank, and Dwarf Fortresses lack of graphics, but you can't ignore the fact that these games are very successful and beloved by the modding community.
7. Arbitrarily adding things - Another point which I pretty much agree with, but adding a feature for the heck of it can sometimes be the "Aha!" moment a game needs to shine. For example Borderlands' art style was changed last minute from realistic looking to cel shaded due to a "wouldn't it be cool if" moment.
As a player, Idk a lot about design, but here's some more specific problems I consistently notice in really good games that are very fun and well-made in almost every way. Like I said, I'm not a game dev (yet, actively fixing that), but this is what goes through the head of a frustrated player, which is ultimately what you're trying to avoid, so here's what usually upsets me, personally.
1) I think you should make sure it's never hard for the player to do what they know they want to do, especially if there's no reason for it to be challenging. For example, don't ever put a randomly difficult platforming section or enemy somewhere. I've been playing one of my favorite games, and there's at least three places so far where you can fall into an area and not get out because you can technically jump out, so there's no other option, but the platforms are so high you can barely reach them. I tried to jump out for over 5 minutes before giving up. There's really no reason for this to be here, the area's not meant to be challenging, and even if it was, not being able to precisely hit an almost unreachable platform is not challenging but stupidly frustrating. Also, I would advise structuring platforming segments, whether they are a challenge or just an area to be traversed, so that if a player falls off of a platform, they are caught by another platform underneath. It's annoying to fall down an entire section, just stagger the platforms so you fall only one level.
2) Never, ever, *ever* put a long unskippable cutscene before a boss fight. It is just pouring so much salt on the wounds of losing over and over again to make the player watch a 60 second cinematic or a 30 line long dialogue exchange every single time they fight the boss and it's so infuriating. Eventually the awesomeness of the character sticking the landing and the boss rearing up and roaring, or the important and interesting story revealed in dialogue will be hated by the player because they have to wait for it, then they die and have to wait for it, and it can spoil how good it might've been. Be like Team Cherry; include the dialogue (or cutscene) when you first meet the boss, then leave it out after that. Also, don't make your player have to backtrack a lot to get back to the boss. Put a save really close before the boss, or just automatically save before it and respawn the player next to the entrance or something, because it feels really unfair when you can take a lot of damage trying to get to the boss, therefore having even less of a chance of winning and an even shorter time before you have to go through it again. Especially if there's difficult platforming or other enemies between. Also, always be sure to put a save directly after a boss. Don't line up multiple hard bosses or areas without a save! That is called a boss rush and shouldn't be needed to finish a game. Basically, boss fights are hard enough. Make it challenging, sure, but you're not trying to punish your players, so make the boss easier or harder, but try to minimize the pain caused by other things. If the boss is hard, put a save before and after, without hard platforming, enemies, time-consuming and tedious traversal, or a long cutscene in between.
7:35 "A rushed game is forever bad"
Patches and remakes: Allow us to introduce ourselves...
it can help the problem, but games like no mans sky and battlefront 2 ea are forever tainted in the eyes of the general public regardless of how much patching they do.
the question is if someone does it for a living or just out of passion to get secondary bucks. it does not matter what anyone thinks, a good game is a good game.
Noyz Productions
This was probably more true when he said it
Note: Skyrim's leveling is really rigid. If you try to learn too many skills or try to learn a new skill later without mastering you original skill. You could make yourself under powered later in the game.
One of undefined mistakes are not making commercials(trailers) for example Commander Keen (late 80's early 90's) another mistakes are not multi platform ports of indie games.
Thank you for the helpful information
There are some AAA Directors who should watch this :)
#6 underestimating polish
Me, a Polish person: damn straight
Excellent, Thank You.
0:27 EA would respectfully disagree 😂