QUICK CORRECTION: The harmonics listed at 7:47 are incorrect. The second harmonic is one octave above the fundamental, and then each subsequent harmonic follows the pattern shown (just add 1 to each ordinal number listed). The harmonic pattern I showed is meant to demonstrate how brass instruments’ harmonics are related to their individual “fundamental” pitches, with the trumpet’s main overtone series on top and the horn’s on the bottom😊
Sorry, but your explanation of harmonics on the French horn (or brass instruments) is not correct. Brass instruments are divided into "half" and "whole" instruments, whereby the fundamental is playable on the "whole" instruments, such as tuba and trombone, and not on the "half" instruments, such as trumpet and cornet. I'd have to look this up, but I think the French horn may theoretically be a "whole" instrument, but practically, I don't think it's possible to play the fundamental on a French horn. I have a French horn in F and one in Bb and I can't play the fundamentals. Maybe with a different mouthpiece it would be possible, but I doubt it. I think the narrowness of the bore makes it impossible. In addition, without valves, the scale playable on a brass instrument isn't the major scale but rather corresponds to the overtone series. The harmonics of a brass instrument in C, including the fundamental are C C G C E G Bb C D E F# (more-or-less) G A Bb C (not equal tempered!). The "comfortable" range on the trumpet is roughly the two and a half octaves starting from the second harmonic. The "comfortable" range on the French horn (again, about 2 and half octaves, assuming a single horn, see below) starts at the fourth harmonic, so you can play in the octave where the tones are about a whole tone apart much more easily than on a trumpet, trombone, tuba, etc. The valves are used to get the other notes. In every case, one lengthens the tube by adding a section with each valve depressed. This makes it possible to play chromatically on the brass instruments. With each combination, you have a different overtone series. French horns are often constructed as "double" horns. These have two sets of tubing, so essentially a horn in F and one in Bb that share a mouthpiece, valves, a bell and some tubing. An additional valves allows one to switch from one to another. The "comfortable" range of each is still about 2 1/2 octaves, but together the range is, of course, greater. I didn't want the extra weight and complexity, so I bought two single horns instead.
You’re absolutely right, I should have said F harmonic series instead of F major scale. Great catch! The fundamental is playable on the horn, but essentially only professionals are able to do it (after warming up, of course 😉). I sure have never been able to play the fundamental, but I suggest checking out Scott Leger Horn on TH-cam. He showcases the entire harmonic series on the horn in one of his shorts and hits the fundamental hard at the end. It’s pretty incredible!
@@2T_Music Thanks for the information on the fundamental on French horns. I have a tenor and an alto trombone and you can play the fundamentals on them. However, they don't sound that great and it would be no great loss if you couldn't. On my overtone flutes (fujaras and koncovkas), the fundamentals sound good, but are much breathier and softer than the higher pitches. They have no fingerholes but do have a hole at the end that can be partially or completely covered. Covering them partially lowers the pitch. It's the same phenomenon as when you stick your hand in the bell of a French horn. Recorders also use this principle and it's possible on other flutes where you have direct access to the finger holes. Covering the hole completely makes the tube act like an open tube of twice the length. Played in this way, the lowest two fundamentals aren't playable on mine, so the first playable note with the closed tube is the fifth above the fundamental of the open tube. This is nice, because you don't have the octave gap as with "whole" brass instruments. As with most wind instruments, in my experience, you've got about 2 1/2 good octaves before the notes become shrill or unplayable.
Technically the piccolo and string bass are also transposing instruments, only transposing by octaves. If you play old notation bass clef on the horn, you would also be transposing by octave.
I would hate to have to read music written above the stacks of ledger lines it would require in order to notate the pitches at the top of the piccolo’s range… Hmmm… is that a triple high F or a triple high A?
A whole list of transposing instruments: Piccolo (an octave higher than flute) Clarinets (most of them, clarinets in C aren’t very common anymore) English Horn (Cor Anglais) Contrabassoon (sounds an octave down from regular bassoon) Saxophones (99% of them, a melody sax in C does exist) Trumpets (most of them, C trumpets are common in orchestras) French Horn Trombones (kinda, first position/fundamental pitch can be Bb, Eb, or F) Euphonium (pitched in Bb, some players read bass clef, others read Bb treble clef) Tubas (kinda, open valve fundamental pitch can be Bb, Eb, F, or C, though the latter isn’t terribly common from my understanding) Contrabass (double bass) Guitar Bass Guitar
One odd transposing instrument is the Highland bagpipe. Highland bagpipe sheet music reads in A Mixolydian or D Major, but the sounding pitch of modern Highland bagpipe chanters is concert Bb or higher. From my understanding, that discrepancy arose from two things: bagpipe makers not using the same standard frequency for the note A4 (the low A on pipe chanters and tenor drones) as each other, and bagpipe makers subsequently making sharper chanters in pursuit of brighter sounds. Today, a modern "concert-pitch" Highland bagpipe sounds in A466, effectively Bb Mixolydian or Eb Major in A440, but Highland bagpipe sheet music still uses two sharps in its key signature as if it was still in D Major.
Another important consideration for brass instruments is that for a long time all people had was natural horns and trumpets. Unlike other instruments, they could only play the notes in a certain harmonic series. When composers would write in a different key, they would need to physically add tubing or grab a different instrument so that they could play the different notes. When playing your trumpet, it’s much easier to always think: “my instrument can play C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C…” than to think: “this piece is in C, so I can only play C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C”, but the other piece is in Bb so I can only play Bb-F-Bb-D-F-Ab-Bb”. The note you play depends on where in the harmonic series you are, not necessarily what frequency is produced. That’s why brass instruments that have always been fully chromatic like trombones (with their slide) and tubas (which were only invented after valves let people play the full chromatic range) typically play in concert pitch, even if the harmonic series is based on a different note. Horns and trumpets couldn’t always play a full chromatic scale, so they are transposing instruments.
Yea that’s typically true but sometimes transpositions/treble clef will commonly be used for all brass instruments in brass bands where it makes it easier to switch in between them. Like stitching between saxes.
@@johnspence5689 Not quite "all" - bass trombone plays in bass clef. Tenor trombones play in treble (transposing) or tenor clef (non transposing) - it's an "eccentric" tradition.
@@mustafa1name tenors don’t play in tenor clef much, mostly bass clef. Same with bass bone. Both bass and tenor can technically read transposing treble clef. So yes. All.
Three easy ways to work out the transposition: 1. When the instrument plays a written C, the sounding note is the pitch of the instrument. For example, if an Alto Sax plays C, we hear an E♭, so it's an E♭ Alto Sax. This is taught really early in transposition, and appears in this video. 2. The written key added to the pitch of the instrument makes the Concert Pitch. For example, an E♭ Alto Sax (3 flats) with its music in B♭ (2 flats) means the Concert Pitch is 5 flats (D♭), which is what the music for flute, oboe, bassoon, and strings would be written in. If a B♭ Tenor Sax (2 flats) has music written in A major (3 sharps), the Concert Pitch is 2 flats _or_ -2 sharps (you can swap between negative and positive if you swich the accidental) + 3 sharps, equals 1 sharp, or G major. 3. The pitch of the instrument takes care of part of the key signature. If concert pitch is E major (4 sharps), and your instrument is Clarinet in A (3 sharps), three of those four sharps are dealt with by the instrument, and your written music would be in one sharp (G major). Concert E major is a bit nastier on a B♭ Clarinet. Concert E major (4 sharps) - Instrument's pitch (-2 sharps, the same as 2 flats) equals 6 sharps. No-one wants to play in F♯ major when you could switch instrument and play in G major. Caveat. Trombones and Tubas are nearly always in concert pitch if in bass clef despite any pitch in their name. In treble clef, Tubas usually are in the pitch they claim to be, but Trombones will vary, dependin on if they're in a brass band or somewhere else. Older Flutes might also be different from what you'd expect. They were sometimes names after the sound produced by 123|456 (rather than written C at 123|456|7), so they might be a tone out. Or maybe not. Tin Whistles are nearly always named for 123|456, and are usually a tone out. Bass clef doesn't always mean concert pitch. Horns, Bass Clarinet and Basset Horn keep their transposition even in bass clef. You're pretty safe assuming alto clef and tenor clef are always in concert pitch.
@mrewan6221 I’m now beginning to understand why many sounding pitches are **lower** than written pitches, not the other way round-you need to understand what the sounding pitch is before equating it to the written pitch. For example, if a B-flat clarinet player plays a middle C as written, the concert pitch will be B-flat below the staff. You see, when I was younger, I learned-or appeared to have learned-that transposing instruments were always a [said interval] ***above*** concert pitch. It was based on this idea that I was able to determine the equivalent of one key signature for a transposing instrument vis-à-vis concert-pitched instruments. I could possibly look at scores written for transposing instruments and see if I can determine written pitches for a concert-pitched instrument; perhaps I’ll better understand the concept. Your transposition hacks are highly likely to work, too. (-:
@@DwainRichardson Yes, I agree that transposition can be thought of as "above" concert. But it's the written music that's above, not the sound. The instrument lowers the pitch, so the written music has to compensate so the correct pitch is heard. For B♭ Clarinet (an instrument a tone lower than a Flute), the Clarinet's music has to be written a tone higher. Of course, there are exceptions. E♭ Clarinet, D Clarinet, D♭ Piccolo, Tenoroon, E♭ Sopranino and others all have sounding pitch _above_ concert pitch, so their music has to be written lower than concert pitch.
Funny that it's supposed to make it easier to switch between instruments in the same family, cause for the brass it does the exact opposite. The same fingering on a trumpet gives the same pitch on a tuba, but the note is named differently. A concert picth Bb on a Bb trumpet is no valve down and it's named and written C. On a tuba or an euphonium, the same concert Bb is produced with no vlave down, but is written and named Bb. So when I put down my trumpet and take up my euphonium, I have to re-learn all the fingerings, even though both have the same tubing lenght (only octaves appart) and will produce the same pitch for any given valve combination. It's only a convention that should be left out IMO.
Very nice video. But you didn't address the question about orchestral instruments that drives me crazy, and for which I can find no answer anywhere: Why did orchestras evolve such that woodwinds are most at home in the flat keys, while the strings are most at home in the sharp keys (based on the available open strings for double stops and general resonance)? While it make sense that the tempered scale allows playing in all 12 keys, wouldn't it have made sense to have both major sections of the orchestra be centered in the same place, and be at home in the same 4 or 5 keys? (This from a guitarist who plays jazz, mostly written for horns in flat keys!)
Can’t say about woodwinds, but for strings it’s because it’s much easier to shift your hand up a half step to play in a sharp key than down for a flat key. For example, an A can be played on an open A string, and A# can also be played on an open A string, but an Ab cannot. Flats require you to occasionally go against instinct as it relates to which notes are played on which strings
I was told by one of my music professors that it had to do with rough historical pitches in regions like France and Germany. France had a very low tuning back in the day (roughly a whole-step lower than today). France was known for the best woodwind manufacturers, so composers wrote with the lower tunings of those instruments in mind. It always sounded like a weird explanation to me since flute doesn't transpose, and neither does oboe.
The alto flute and the English horn are transposing instruments. They are pitched a fourth and a fifth, respectively, lower than the corresponding "soprano" instruments. That is, the alto flute is in G and the English horn is in F. Probably the (rare) baritone oboe and the (similar) Heckelphone are also transposing instruments, but I'd have to look this up. I'm not sure about the bass flute, either. I think your professor's explanation might apply in some special cases, but not generally.
Sometimes woodwind parts had to be transposed when playing with different pipe organs. The organs varied in their tuning. Strings could retune (although it would have affected the tone quality), and horns might have been able to use a different crook to adjust the pitch.
I learnt to play music on recorder and I still play recorders. Recorders don't transpose, all the music is written in C, but I don't find it that difficult to swap between an F instrument (alto) and a C instrument (soprano or tenor). It just takes a little bit of readjustment for a few minutes to read the music differently.
Ummm I think you mistook the point man, if a c has the same fingerings on all of them then it’s transposing. Same fingering=different note=transposing.
@@johnspence5689 No, they didn't miss the point. Recorder players really do have two sets of fingerings, one for when the instrument's lowest note is C, and the other for when the instrument's lowest note is F. The note they read is the note they think they're playing, and is the note that sounds. They are always playing in concert pitch. (The C recorders are the descant/soprano, the tenotr and the garklein. There are also some quite large instruments, but the names seem to vary, so a real recorder player might be a better person to ask for names. The F recorders are treble/alto, sopranino, and bass/basset. Again, there are larger instruments with seemingly variable names. There have also been recorders in G, B♭, D and probably other keys. I believe they were all played with different sets of fingerings. If you had music for a trio of G-C-F, you could play it on C-F-B♭ instruments. In this case, all three instruments would be transposing by the same amount, but the players would still be using their C-F-B♭ fingerings.)
@@mrewan6221 oh okay, I understand. Hear me out tho, isn’t that the harder way though? If there was just one set of fingerings and it just sounded down a fourth or whatnot then wouldn’t it be easier and more accessible. Also in general I don’t think you should call your instrument “in concert pitch” if you are just reading concert pitch. I just like to specify between when the instrument is transposing or if you are
@@johnspence5689 Yes, I've never understood why recorders didn't just adopt a single set of fingerings like flutes, etc. When I write for recorders I always provide two parts for the "F" instruments: one in the regular "F" fingering, and the other transposed so the instrument can be played with "C" fingering. The most common argument I've heard is that most of the music is very old, and isn't transposed, so they have to learn two sets of fingerings anyway. To which I'd say - for new music - why not start standardising? The players wouldn't be learning a third set of fingerings, just using one of them more. There's also the argument that recorders used to be spaced in fifths, so if you had a piece for adjacent trio, you could play it on any three adjacent instruments. But that's exactly what transposing is! "Concert Pitch" has long had the meaning, of "if the note you see and play is the same as the sounding note, the instrument is in Concert Pitch". Everyone who plays in any ensemble uses "Concert Pitch" like this. Woodwind, brass, strings. Some people have tried to make it mean the note that sounds when all fingers are down (T|123|456|7). This just happens to work on flute, oboe, saxophone, half the recorders and the upper register of clarinets. Then they try to shoe-horn bassoon, and the other half of recorders into this T|123|456|7 = F as the pitch of the instrument, but it just doesn't work for clarinet lower register. And the players don't think of it like that. And can't easily be applied to most brass (double, triple horns, trombones, euphoinum and tubas in bass clef), and makes no sense for strings. The violin's lowest note is G, viola and cello C, bass E or maybe C, or B. Xylophones and other mallet instruments have variable compasses, and even pianos don't always start at A. So why don't bassoons change? For the same reason we're still using QWERTY. The system works as is for bassoons and bassoonists. To treat bassoons as transposing instruments in F would mean a whole lot of _new_ learning, unlike recorders. Apart from theatre, there's very little doubling between bassoon and other instruments. The most likely double anywhere else is with contrabassoon, which has the same fingerings as bassoon. (The most likely theatre doubling in theatre for bassoon is with bass clarinet and bari sax. It's common enough for players to get used to it.) Of all the woodwinds, the instrument most likely to get its own book, with no doubling at all, it the bassoon. ⁂ ⁂ ⁂ For normal playing, it's always the instrument that's transposing, while the player is reading from pre-transposed music. The player sees a note and plays that note. Every player who sees "G" plays "G" on their instrument. Usually, the players are not transposing. Except … sometime you might purposely be given a "wrong" part if an instrument is unavailable. Most oboe players will be able to sight-transpose a cor anglais part. I have sight transposed French horn and B♭ clarinet parts on bassoon. This sort of thing happens a lot in theatre pits, where the oboist might now have a cor, and it's only one song. Or where the third horn is mostly optional except for one exposed bit. The other time when the player transposes might be when accompanying a singer. The conductor might ask for a playout, maybe the last 16 bars up a tone. The players of pitched instruments in the whole ensemble are then transposing. Maybe a less confusing term for this might be "key-shifting", as everyone is doing it, despite the pitch of their instrument.
This is a great explanation on the matter. I’ve been looking for this explanation for awhile now and never got anything substantial. The fact that this exists only for “ergonomic” reasons rather than pure musical ones it’s beautiful to me. Congrats on the video, I did subscribe to the channel. 🎉
A tuba is called a Bb tuba because that’s the note that sounds when no valves are pressed. A trumpet player reads that note as a C, but for some reason bass clef brass is notated in the sounding pitch, making them non-transposing (and also making the fingerings differ ). In British brass band music, the same tuba would read music in B flat and use trumpet fingerings-meaning the same instrument is transposing after all.
Tuba music when written in bass clef will most likely be in C and the tubist would have to relearn fingerings for each different key of tuba. When tuba music is written in treble clef, how it is transposed depends of the key of the tuba (Eb in Eb treble, Bb in Bb treble) but that is mostly found in British style brass bands and not much in other places. Some European composers do write tuba music in Bb bass clef but I have not heard of it in any orchestral repertoire mainly solo work and technical exercises.
This is like music for recorders being usually written at sounding pitch, even though most recorders come in C and F sizes (arrayed in octaves), thus requiring players to learn 2 sets of fingerings and do octave transposition in their head. But reportedly, recorder music occasionally was written transposing.
@@donlibes Writing tubas in 𝄞 means that most of the brass band has the same fingering for every instrument. (Bass trombone plays in concert pitch, 𝄢.) In a brass band you're more likely to move from cornet, to baritone, to "bass" than you are in other ensembles.
@@donlibes tuba is mostly written in treble clef in brass bands because it makes it easy for the musicians to swap between the instruments without having to learn new fingerings
@@stefantuba @mrewan6221, I wish your explanation made sense but I was taught baritone horn with different fingerings when reading treble clef (transposing as a Bb instrument) and bass clef (non-transposing). Sigh.
Woodwinds appear in just two basic written scales: One where 123 is G and 123|456 is D, and the other where 123 is C and 123|456 is G. Flute, Oboe, Saxophone all have 123=G, Bassoon has 123=C. Clarinet is like Flute (etc) in the upper register, and like Bassoon in the lower register. Recorders switch between the two systems as the sizes change. What this means it that once you learn the more common fingering (123=G), you can switch between a lot of different instruments of different sizes. Piccolo, Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute, Oboe, Oboe d'Amore, Cor Anglais (English Horn), Hecklephone, E♭ Clarinet, D Clarinet, C Clarinet, B♭ Clarinet, A Clarinet, Basset Horn, E♭ Alto Clarinet, B♭ Bass Clarinet, E♭ Contralto Clarinet, B♭ Contra Bass Clarinet, E♭ Sopranino Sax, B♭ Soprano Sax, E♭ Alto Sax, B♭ Tenor Sax, E♭ Bari Sax, and B♭ Bass Sax. (Yes, I've played with other players who were playing all of these; there are still more.) This is really, useful in theatre pit orchestras, where it's standard for the Reed players to switch instruments. You don't want to have to remember a whole swarm of different fingerings. Most players have to play a clarinet and a saxophone, often a flute, and maybe a specialist instrument, such as oboe or bassoon. Because of the clarinet, you're switching between 123=G and 123=C, so the other instruments don't cause many difficulties. So long as you remember what happens with 123|4 (Oboe and Bassoon is a semitone below 123, the others are a tone below), then it's only trills and extreme notes the might cause problems (and the "break" on clarinets). For those still following, the best way to annoy bassoonists (my instrument) is to play 123|456|7, think of it as C, hear a different note and proclaim that the bassoon is in F. It's not, for the same reason the clarinet isn't in two different keys at once.
The “f” is based off of the natural scale of the instrument. Technically the natural scale(0,1,12,123…1234567) is a f scale(with a b natural) on a bassoon. The natural scale for the alto is eb.
@@johnspence5689 I would respectfully disagree. You seem to be applying the "rule" that the sound 123|456|7 makes is also the pitch of the instrument; that this note is the tonic of an instrument's "natural scale". This method fails for B♭ clarinet, as that note is indeed B♭ in the upper register, but is E♭ in the lower register - the one every student learns first. No-one would say the "regular" clarinet is pitched in E♭. All clarinets have the same "5th out" in the lower register. No bassoonist in the history of the world would ever agree that our instrument is in F. Bassoon fingerings are old. We just have a set of fingerings that never joined in with the standardisation of Boehm, Sax, Sarrus, and the French Conservatoire. Probabably because we didn't need to. There were very few variants to the instrument, probably because of the large range, and the ability to blend with everything. There have been quart- and quint- tenoroons, but there's little they can do that other instruments can't do better. There have also been other odd instruments from time to time. Widor expected a semi-contra bassoon (in F) to become very popular "any day now", in 1889. We're still waiting. We also have the contrabassoon, also in C, with 123|456|7 playing and sounding an F. In the early days, they weren't particularly good, and different inventors looked for alternatives. The Adolphe Sax's first saxophone was a B♭ bass, intended as a replacement for the contrabassoon. We have the poor contrabassoon to thank for the whole saxophone family, and indirectly the bass clarinet. More recently we have the Contraforte, which is still growingin popularity and might become standard, although contrabassoons are much better now.
Another good example of transposing for fingerings is the sax family which interesting enough also use the same fingerings as the flutes effectively allowing you to know the fingerings for both families (though I know you wouldn’t mention this because sax isn’t orchestral)
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio however it’s not standard. I do love classical orchestral sax. Though I play the tenor and generally in classical settings it will be an alto used
Bass clarinet is also transposed Bb (but an octave lower), so transitioning from clarinet to bass clarinet is (almost) the same fingering throughout Definitely not the case with clarinet vs alto clarinet though
Yes it is. Same fingerings as both clarinets. Actually it’s the same for all clarinets as long as the have the same style of keywork. Speaking from experience.
This is a very informative video. Having played stringed instruments most of my life, I never had the need to investigate this subject, although I would be intrigued when I would run across the mention of transposing instruments. Now that I know what transposing instruments are all about, I can relax and completely disregard the subject, instead of spending a few seconds wondering about them each time I'm reminded of them. I feel that my life, what's left of it, has just been made slightly more efficient. Unfortunately, as this video was 9:07 minutes long, and the composition of this comment took a bit of time as well, my feeling of now having a slightly more efficient life is actually a false one. As my time left on this Earth is certainly much shorter than the time that I've already spent here, the foreseeable accumulated amount of time that I will save in no longer wondering about transposing instruments is likely just a tiny fraction of the time that I've invested in watching and commenting on this video. I did enjoy the spent time spent doing so, though, so there's that. 👍👍😊😊
Trombone are non-transposing instruments also. Similarly to the tuba, we generally have Bb (tenor and bass) and Eb (alto), and some with triggers that change to another pitch (typically F, Gb, and D). But all read, play, and sound concert pitch.
So, it's to make the instrument interfaces to be compatible in that instrument family so a musician who can play one of those can play all of those, thus cutting costs on training and making orchestra positions interchangeable. The composer knows that, say a C on a clarinet is actually a Bb, and writes the music sheet taking that in consideration, and transpose the tune to the right key, so the instrument will not be out of tune with the rest of the orchestra, for instance, if he wants an E, he writes a Gb. Most likely, it's just a matter of changing the key signature and shifting the notes up or down the staff. It's actually a beautiful example of good UI/UX design, in this case, padronizing the fingerings of different instruments, with the trade-off of the extra one off mental work of transposing keys for the composer (that now at days can be automatized via software).
Basically, your conclusions are correct, but there are a few things that are slightly off: It saves a little effort when learning a second, transposing instrument, but not if you want to know what pitches you're really playing. What you gain on the straights, you lose on the roundabouts. It doesn't make orchestra positions interchangeable, because normally an oboist player will double on English horn, a flautist will double on alto flute, a clarinettist will double on bass clarinet, etc. It's not just shifting the notes up and down the staff, because one has to watch out for the intervals where there's a half-step between note names and accidentals. There is software for composing and transposing and I did typeset one arrangement using software (MusixTeX). I found it didn't pay and I preferred doing it by hand. It's not that I don't like computers (I was a programmer by profession), but I enjoy writing out music by hand and transposing is no problem, with practice.
I'd always had the impression that trombones and tubas DO transpose, but a book I read on music theory claimed they DON'T. Thanks for clarifying. Now I have to rewrite a fair portion of a story about a musician I've been working on.
Once instruments didn't transpose, thus i.e. recorder players or trombonist had to adjust to different positions for the various instruments they played. That's why nowadays low brasses (trombones and tubas) don't transpose, they traditionally are trained to adapt themselves. The same cannot be said for hornists, clarinetists, saxophonists and trumpetists - Transposition indeed was invented during the 17.th Century precisely to make life easier to hornists and trumpetists having yet to deal with the notoriusly challenging "natural" (valveless) instrument of the era, and it has sticked up ever since.
@@johnspence5689 Still, they don't transpose. Probably has to do with the fact their heritage actually traces back to the late 16.th Century, with serpents and ophicleides, which still didn't transpose, by the way what's said for trombones also applies to tubas.
So, in a way, a transposing instrument is like a guitar with a capo: with the capo on the 3rd fret, you play the shape of Am but the sound your guitar makes is Cm. I play baritone guitar (tuned to B standard) and it's very hard to relearn the fretboard. It's easier to rewrite all the parts to fit the actual tuning of the instrument.
From a clarinet player's perspective, there are two parts to this question. Clarinets that play in C actually exist. Beethoven and Schubert both wrote for this form of the instrument. It became obsolete throughout the nineteenth century as the size of orchestras increased. Because the clarinet in B-flat is physically larger it has a bigger sound and is better able to hold its own in a modern orchestral setting. The clarinet in A is a little bigger again, and has survived for the same reason. The second reason that clarinets transpose, and specifically that we still have two forms of the instrument, B-flat and A, is to play solo repertoire. Mozart wrote his Clarinet Concerto and Clarinet Quintet in A, to be played on a clarinet in A. Although in theory you could play these pieces on a clarinet in B-flat, it would be like transposing a famous violin or piano concerto. People would think that you don't know what you're doing, or that you're trying to prove a point.
In this context the recorder is interesting.Recorders are not transposing, but they lowest tone is either C or F. for a whole range on instruments. Fingering is the same for each instrument, though you need to learn to play an f scale or a C scale. For the lower recorders, using the F key of course you need to learn this key as well, which may take some time. To make things a bit more complicated, the sporano and sopranino recorder are written one octave lower. To make things even more complicated there are instruments like the voice flute, which is is in D (not transposing as far as I know). Recorder players tend to play a large range of instruments and individual instruments may require different fingering. Combined with all helper fingerings for difficult situations, like playing very soft, playing micro tones and double sounds and so on additional fingerings exist. Lucy Horsch, one of the most famous recorder players claims the 500 fingerings exist for the recorder. Not sure if that is true.
Great, informative video. Drummer/Bassist here and I wasn’t aware of any of this so thank you, I’ve learned my new thing for the day. My 1 concern though is your logo unfortunately reminds me of a swastika.
So while the sound is different than the written note, cannot we say that the vice versa of that is also true? That is, the written note is different than the sound. It is as if all the notes on the instrument have been RENAMED on purpose to get them to fit the staff position they are using for any one particular instrument, making the range of the horn more suitably align with the staff and easier to read. And that's not the only reason for transposing. Thanks for stating the other reasons.
Really thought he was going to explain the physics behind why an instrument plays the way it does, and how it works mechanicaly. If anyone could tell me where to look for that I'd be very happy.
I recommend starting with the book "Horns, Strings and Harmony" by Arthur Benade. He also wrote a book called "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics", which is a much more detailed and rigorous treatment of the subject. Both are published by Dover Publications and are in print.
Wonder what musicians around the world think about transposing instruments. I was born and raised in the States, so I learned music the way you’ve described it, but I’ve been living in Japan for 20+ years so I know they use the fixed DO system rather than letter names. 🎵 Thanks for the video.
@@stephenmessano1847yes, one is a do mayor scale (so do re mi fa sol la si) and the other one is a do sostenido (or sharp or what you call it) mayor scale (so do# re# mi# fa# sol# la# si#), that’s the distinction
@@stephenmessano1847 I don’t think this other guy in the comments gets the question but yes they would differentiate between a c and C sharp scale. That is with FIXED DO though. Movable do is where you move around the tonic(do) and you’re just going based off of the intervals. In movable do C sharp major and c major would be the same. In fixed do theyd be completely different. Fixed do means c=do d=re e=mi etc… so a B-flat=Si/Ti-flat.
I still don't understand why they call it "transposing instruments" as if the instrument has a transpose button (some digital pianos does; and a capo on a guitar does actually do that); the instrument does nothing, it's just the sheet music that is written transposed and a weird convention on how to read it. Also isn't this horribly confusing for people with absolute pitch? I can't read sheet music; I only play by ear so it doesn't make any sense to me. But I would expect if I had absolute pitch I would probably find it very confusing to see a C and hear something else; so I would probably then figure out the fingering to hear a C instead, which would be wrong of course. On a piano when playing for myself I will often transpose a melody to make it easier to play because of the A-minor / C-major focused layout some keys+modes are easier or harder, though weirdly I'm very often playing in D-minor rather than A-minor even though D-minor has more black keys; I just think D-minor sounds better I guess.
You're right, I've read that some people with perfect pitch have a terrible time transposing. D minor only has one black key and Noel Coward, who also only played by ear, favored Eb maj. (with three black keys --- Cm is the relative minor). You're also right that the instruments don't transpose, the people do. If a Bb trumpet could think, it would think it was playing in Bb. It's a convention that puts the burden on the composer or orchestrator rather than the player. I used to think it was just a bad idea, but I've changed my opinion. Often, when I play something on my tenor trombone, I'll imagine the slide positions of my alto trombone and vice versa. This often puts the melody into a better range for the instrument. I'll do the same thing with recorders in F, that is, I'll imagine the fingerings for a recorder in C. In addition, thinking of everything being in C is useful for chromatic harmonicas in different keys. As a wind player, I find myself transposing all the time, even for C instruments, in order to get a song into a playable range. It's definitely a useful skill, even if you can't read music.
@@laurencefinston7036 Ah; I don't really think about what exact keys or how I shape my hand when I play; I just press a few keys so I hear where I am; and then I just find the key I want to start from either from an idea in my mind or from remembering/listening to a song, and then I just somehow know which keys to press to go from there. I just feel that some starting keys feel more awkward; so I havent even thought about how many black keys D-minor has. When I transpose a melody to be less awkward, I just play the starting key and walk down one semitone at a time until I arrive at some starting key I think would be less awkward, and then I just transpose the melody to start from that key in my mind and start playing in the new key. Which with most pop music ends up being C major or A minor, and for some reason with Scandinavian folk melodies some kind of D key... I'm not entirely sure it's actually D-minor or some other mode of D I seem to prefer when I just improvise, I think it has one or two black keys where one is sort of "optional" depending on how I want it to feel or is only used when going down but rarely when going up or something. I dunno...It's whatever mode and key; most of Jan Johansson's "Jazz på Svenska" is in; since that's some of the first songs I learned to play on piano so those keys feel comfortable to me.
Just tested on my piano and a "scale finder" app online and realised my favuorite scales are apparently A minor, D harmonic minor and D melodic minor. And also several other scales starting at A or D that have 8 or 9 keys in an octave; which I guess are some kind of blues scale or some some traditional Nordic scale, which the scale finder app could not identify. (Which would make sense since I learned them from an album of Nordic folk music inspired jazz) I think these are the ones where I don't play the same notes going up and down or always swap a black or white key at the high register; it certainly feels odd to play every note in the melody in rising or falling order even though it sounds perfectly natural when they are part of the melody. And I don't think it's a key change that is causing it, because I play most of the keys with the same bass notes.
@@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug At one time, I practiced scales a lot but what I found to work best was to learn the major scales and their relative minors inside and out and otherwise play by ear. It's also important to know the intervals in the various chords. I already knew them from playing from lead sheets and especially from playing chord melodies on the guitar. The "harmonic minor" scale is an artificial construction; no pieces of music in the Baroque or Classical eras were ever composed in the key of x harmonic minor. The rationale for it was that often, when playing in a minor key, one plays the major sixth and seventh when ascending and the minor ones when descending. However, this wasn't always done. Names like this and of some other scales are an attempt to create a system and force the music to fit into it. Many of the best players can't read music and I regret that I was discouraged from playing by ear when I was a child. I believe that the most important musical skill is being able to hear something in your head and realize it on an instrument, just the way people sing or whistle to themselves. It's nice to be able to read and write music, transpose, know about music theory, etc., but those things are secondary, in my opinion.
You're right. Rather than calling it a transposing instrument, we could call it an instrument adjusted to be played with transposed music, so that it sounds as though the music isn't transposed. But that's all a bit unwieldy, so "transposing instrument" is used. ⁂ ⁂ ⁂ ⁂ ⁂ The other meaning of "transposition" is when you change the key of a piece of music. Maybe it's well ahead of time (say when writing tutor books for "high voice" and "low voice"). Maybe it's in rehearsal (the singer wants to take it up a little). Maybe it's in the final dress-rehersal (we need a playout here; play the last sixteen bars up a tone). For these last-minute transpositions, all the players will be expected to adjust on the spot. Or there could be a very, vary rare case where you have the instrument in a different pitch that would work.
The most stupid thing is that trumpets are transposed in Bb but in some types of music (for example church music in C). So you need to learn different types of fingering depending on the type of music. This is also the same for trombones when they have to read in Bb treble cleff. (In this case this is quite easy because it's just tenor cleff in a different key but still pain)
Yes it does, along with some other orchestral instruments (piccolo, contrabassoon, etc.). Any that don’t play the exact notated pitch are transposing instruments (for the purposes of the video I focused only on those that change the note itself, not just the octave 😊).
Let's not confuse the issue with ALL brass band instruments playing in treble clef in Bb or Eb..... except for bass trombone! 🙄 🤬 I think the easiest way to think of it is "nearly all" instruments play on the stave plus 2-3 ledger lines above and below. That way nobody gets hurt and it rarely ends in tears 😁
Yes this is largely correct but you didn't mention the A clarinet. This clarinet, about and inch and a half longer, and therefore every key adjusted for the size, exists solely to make orchestral clarinetists pay twice as much for two clarinets one of which they will hardly use. The other reason it exists is that some composers insist on writing music in keys that when transposed for Bb clarinets put them in awkward or difficult keys to play. Not withstanding a decent music education would have given the clarinetist the ability to play in any key, the score would be written in such a way as to be full of enharmonic spellings and confusing accidentals. A score in Concert B would put a Bb clarinet in C#. Using an A clarinet means the transposition is up a minor third, rather than a major 2nd. Rendering that B major key a simple key of D major. Thus allowing the orchestral clarinetist to satisfy themselves that shelling out for another professional quality clarinet was (just about) worth it. Of course all this is because of the monumentally stupid decision to make C a default position, to be played with no flats or sharps just on the white keys of the piano. This makes C simple to play and notate, but renders every other key ever more complex the more remote from C it is. If a proper chromatic system had been adopted with every key using just two black notes, there would be just two hand patterns to play any scale and the semitone and tone relationships far more obvious. Transposition would have been a doddle. 90% of what needs to be taught to elementary music students is entirely the fault of this stupid system and is the reason 90% of them give up.
"[...] exists solely to make orchestral clarinetists pay twice as much for two clarinets one of which they will hardly use." Serves 'em right! Signed, The brass section.
I still don’t understand transposition. Why didn’t the manufacturers just make instruments in one key, like C, that read the correct written and sounding pitches to make it more understandable?
Instruments are constructed in different sizes so they can have different ranges of pitch. The idea of "transposing instruments" is meant to make things easier for the player, but it makes things more difficult for the composer or orchestrator or anyone trying to read a score. It's just a convention, the instruments don't really transpose, the people do. If a player learns that a certain fingering for an oboe (a non-transposing instrument) means "C", and that person wants to play an English horn (like an oboe, but tuned a fifth below in F), then it's (supposedly) easier for the player if a written part is written a fifth "too high". Then, when he or plays it, thinking "C" for a note notated as "C", then an F will come out. Alto and lower recorders are non-transposing instruments and the soprano and sopranino recorders are notated an octave below the way they sound. This doesn't present any problem for reading or writing. Trombones are also non-transposing instruments, although the alto trombone is in Eb and the tenor in Bb. I play the trumpet, but not usually music written for trumpet. My trumpet is in Bb, which is the most common tuning, and trumpet music for Bb trumpet is notated a whole step "too high", so if you play a notated D, a C will come out. I learned the valve positions in the conventional way, so when I play non-transposed music, I have to transpose up a whole step in my head. This has become so much of a habit that it's easier for me than playing music that's been transposed for Bb trumpet. I hope this had made things clearer. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
@@blaubeer8039 The Bb trumpet has a convenient size and range. I've got a D/Eb trumpet (with two bells and two sets of slides, that can be exchanged) and I like playing it, but I find the higher pitch tiring to listen to after a certain length of time, so I tend to use it for "special occasions". Brass bands generally use instruments pitched in Bb and Eb and jazz developed out of that tradition, so I think it's likely that that's why brass instruments in these pitches are most common. It's one of those things where it doesn't matter that much, one must just make a choice. A difference of a whole tone in pitch makes some difference, but not a huge amount. In the past, cornets were more commonly found in the orchestra than trumpets and when trumpets were used, they were often "concert" trumpets with rotary valves. I've got instruments with rotary valves (but not trumpets) and ones with Perinet valves and I think it's six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other. The range of the alto horn in Eb overlaps nicely with that of the trumpet in Bb. Also, a Bb trumpet is about as large and heavy an instrument as I would be comfortable holding for a long time in that position, since there's no counterweight, as with the trombone, and you can't rest it on your shoulder. The alto horn is held like a tuba.
The Reed 3 player in West Side Story has to play Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, Tenor Saxophone, and Baritone Saxophone. That's eight instruments. You're swapping between them for the whole show, often several times in a song. If they all had their own concert pitch fingerings (i.e. put these fingers down to get the same note on any instrument - like a piano), only flute/oboe and Bass Clarinet/Tenor Sax would be played the same way. It would get very confusing, very fast. Instead, transposition means all eight instruments are played with nearly the same fingerings ('though the Clarinet and Bass Clarinet have a different set of fingerings in the lower register). With the frantic swappings, it's one thing less to worry about. Instead, you can concentrate on air, reed, and all the other mechanical things they appear to challenge your playing!
@@mrewan6221 What version of the score is this from? Scores for Broadway musicals usually exist in two versions, one for Broadway, London and other venues with more resources and a simplified version for stock and touring companies. I don't have the piano reduction of West Side Story (or any scores by Bernstein), but I checked the ones for Candide, On the Town and Wonderful town, and they all have more reed players (5 or 6) and the doublings aren't as extreme. Oboes don't use the Boehm system and the fingerings are somewhat different from those of the flute; enough to make it confusing when switching back and forth. I believe I've heard of a double reed attachment for a clarinet, to make it possible for a clarinetist to make a passable imitation of an oboe, but it makes my fingers tremble to type about such an abomination.
@@laurencefinston7036 Oboe players I've worked with ramble on about "Conservatoire" (which I think is French) and "Thumb-Plate", which I think is English. They would both have some differences, and also differences from Boehm. But I think 1,2,3,5,6 are pretty much the same. On at least one oboe system, 4 is a semitone below 3, like bassoon. All the side keys will be different, but that's true for every woodwind. I've played a single-reed clarinet-style mouthpiece for bassoon. I felt it was dreadful; the single-reed player who had to cover bassoon got a better sound than using a proper bassoon reed.
A number of years ago, I worked with a man who spoke several languages, at least four, I think. He was visiting me one day, and noticed that I had several woodwind instruments laying on my table. He asked me to play the same song on three of them as it happened, a flute, clarinet, and alto saxophone. He asked me to play the same song on all three of them. I chose to play the opening bars of Ravel’s Bolero. In order to have them all sound in the same key, I played it in the key of B-flat on the flute, C on the clarinet, and G on the saxophone. He paid very close attention as I played, and when I was done, he asked me why my fingers moved so differently on each instrument. I wasn’t sure how to explain transposing instruments to him, so instead, I gave him this explanation. I said “In the same way that you are multilingual, I am multi-fingeral.” He stared at me for a moment, then shook his head and changed the subject.
Thats an interesting point. I like Multi-fingeral as a term. But for most players this is quite a challenge and betrays how we read music. You may well have done this 'by ear' which is good and its a simple enough melody. But reading music and transposing 'at sight' is awkward. Practice helps of course and there are a few 'hacks' but generally it is challenging. We 'map' what we see to a muscular response. Any pianist (and other instrumentalists) will have the experience of seeing notated music and having involuntary reactions in the fingers. It would be wonderful if we were multifingeral.
@@lyntedrockley7295 Yes, I was playing Bolero by ear, but if I had to play in more than 4 flats or 3 sharps, I would need a bit of practice. I guess I could say that my fingers “know” the intervals between pitches in those keys. For me, a melody is a collection of intervals and durations. The actual pitches are arbitrary. When I listen to a song that I want to learn, I think of the fingerings for the notes of the melody on different woodwinds in a convenient key for the current instrument. Usually C for most instruments, D for the oboe, and sometimes F for the clarinet. And yes, I do move my fingers. Speaking of the oboe, it is unusual among the woodwinds that I’ve played in that its natural scale is D. The flute and saxophone have a natural scale of C. And the clarinet has two natural scales, C in the high register and F in the low register. I don’t know if this counts as transposing or not, but I can play duets on a C flute with an E-flat alto saxophone by adding 3 flats to the key signature and reading it in bass clef. Sorry if I’ve bored anyone with this babbling.
Dude... you _might_ want to dial the color grading back a notch for the next video. This looks really unhealthy. Although it probably isn't. But it's really distracting.
Sorry but this is a misconception. No instruments (excepts a digital keyboard type instrument) does any transposing. It is the music that is transposed in advance. The instruments themselves doesn't do any transposing at all. Sad misconception.
Well, as a horn player I disagree with "the instruments don't do any transposing at all". I've had to read Eb horn music even though I play F horn because it is normal in the musical style I play.
How is setting the transposition function on an electric piano down two half steps different from playing a Bb trumpet? In both cases you finger a C, play a C, but a Bb sounds. Also, what would you propose as an alternative name?
@@lyntedrockley7295No, he's right. The notes you play on the instrument are what they are because of the construction of the instrument, so in order to play the correct pitches, the music is pitched accordingly. If you play violin and you read off of Bb clarinet music, it will sound off. The instrument is referred to as "transposing" because of what was explained at the end of the video (how it relates to C major).
QUICK CORRECTION: The harmonics listed at 7:47 are incorrect. The second harmonic is one octave above the fundamental, and then each subsequent harmonic follows the pattern shown (just add 1 to each ordinal number listed).
The harmonic pattern I showed is meant to demonstrate how brass instruments’ harmonics are related to their individual “fundamental” pitches, with the trumpet’s main overtone series on top and the horn’s on the bottom😊
Sorry, but your explanation of harmonics on the French horn (or brass instruments) is not correct. Brass instruments are divided into "half" and "whole" instruments, whereby the fundamental is playable on the "whole" instruments, such as tuba and trombone, and not on the "half" instruments, such as trumpet and cornet. I'd have to look this up, but I think the French horn may theoretically be a "whole" instrument, but practically, I don't think it's possible to play the fundamental on a French horn. I have a French horn in F and one in Bb and I can't play the fundamentals. Maybe with a different mouthpiece it would be possible, but I doubt it. I think the narrowness of the bore makes it impossible.
In addition, without valves, the scale playable on a brass instrument isn't the major scale but rather corresponds to the overtone series. The harmonics of a brass instrument in C, including the fundamental are C C G C E G Bb C D E F# (more-or-less) G A Bb C (not equal tempered!). The "comfortable" range on the trumpet is roughly the two and a half octaves starting from the second harmonic. The "comfortable" range on the French horn (again, about 2 and half octaves, assuming a single horn, see below) starts at the fourth harmonic, so you can play in the octave where the tones are about a whole tone apart much more easily than on a trumpet, trombone, tuba, etc.
The valves are used to get the other notes. In every case, one lengthens the tube by adding a section with each valve depressed. This makes it possible to play chromatically on the brass instruments. With each combination, you have a different overtone series.
French horns are often constructed as "double" horns. These have two sets of tubing, so essentially a horn in F and one in Bb that share a mouthpiece, valves, a bell and some tubing. An additional valves allows one to switch from one to another. The "comfortable" range of each is still about 2 1/2 octaves, but together the range is, of course, greater. I didn't want the extra weight and complexity, so I bought two single horns instead.
You’re absolutely right, I should have said F harmonic series instead of F major scale. Great catch!
The fundamental is playable on the horn, but essentially only professionals are able to do it (after warming up, of course 😉). I sure have never been able to play the fundamental, but I suggest checking out Scott Leger Horn on TH-cam. He showcases the entire harmonic series on the horn in one of his shorts and hits the fundamental hard at the end. It’s pretty incredible!
@@2T_Music Thanks for the information on the fundamental on French horns. I have a tenor and an alto trombone and you can play the fundamentals on them. However, they don't sound that great and it would be no great loss if you couldn't. On my overtone flutes (fujaras and koncovkas), the fundamentals sound good, but are much breathier and softer than the higher pitches. They have no fingerholes but do have a hole at the end that can be partially or completely covered. Covering them partially lowers the pitch. It's the same phenomenon as when you stick your hand in the bell of a French horn. Recorders also use this principle and it's possible on other flutes where you have direct access to the finger holes. Covering the hole completely makes the tube act like an open tube of twice the length. Played in this way, the lowest two fundamentals aren't playable on mine, so the first playable note with the closed tube is the fifth above the fundamental of the open tube. This is nice, because you don't have the octave gap as with "whole" brass instruments. As with most wind instruments, in my experience, you've got about 2 1/2 good octaves before the notes become shrill or unplayable.
my god, thats it, to keep the fingering consistent, thats the answer i've been searching for so long, makes sooo much sense
Technically the piccolo and string bass are also transposing instruments, only transposing by octaves. If you play old notation bass clef on the horn, you would also be transposing by octave.
A bass clarinet is also B flat. A better comparison would be alto sax (E flat) to tenor sax (B flat)
I would hate to have to read music written above the stacks of ledger lines it would require in order to notate the pitches at the top of the piccolo’s range… Hmmm… is that a triple high F or a triple high A?
Guitar octave transposes too right
@@jordanschug Yes, as does bass guitar.
A whole list of transposing instruments:
Piccolo (an octave higher than flute)
Clarinets (most of them, clarinets in C aren’t very common anymore)
English Horn (Cor Anglais)
Contrabassoon (sounds an octave down from regular bassoon)
Saxophones (99% of them, a melody sax in C does exist)
Trumpets (most of them, C trumpets are common in orchestras)
French Horn
Trombones (kinda, first position/fundamental pitch can be Bb, Eb, or F)
Euphonium (pitched in Bb, some players read bass clef, others read Bb treble clef)
Tubas (kinda, open valve fundamental pitch can be Bb, Eb, F, or C, though the latter isn’t terribly common from my understanding)
Contrabass (double bass)
Guitar
Bass Guitar
One odd transposing instrument is the Highland bagpipe.
Highland bagpipe sheet music reads in A Mixolydian or D Major, but the sounding pitch of modern Highland bagpipe chanters is concert Bb or higher. From my understanding, that discrepancy arose from two things: bagpipe makers not using the same standard frequency for the note A4 (the low A on pipe chanters and tenor drones) as each other, and bagpipe makers subsequently making sharper chanters in pursuit of brighter sounds. Today, a modern "concert-pitch" Highland bagpipe sounds in A466, effectively Bb Mixolydian or Eb Major in A440, but Highland bagpipe sheet music still uses two sharps in its key signature as if it was still in D Major.
Another important consideration for brass instruments is that for a long time all people had was natural horns and trumpets. Unlike other instruments, they could only play the notes in a certain harmonic series. When composers would write in a different key, they would need to physically add tubing or grab a different instrument so that they could play the different notes. When playing your trumpet, it’s much easier to always think: “my instrument can play C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C…” than to think: “this piece is in C, so I can only play C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C”, but the other piece is in Bb so I can only play Bb-F-Bb-D-F-Ab-Bb”. The note you play depends on where in the harmonic series you are, not necessarily what frequency is produced.
That’s why brass instruments that have always been fully chromatic like trombones (with their slide) and tubas (which were only invented after valves let people play the full chromatic range) typically play in concert pitch, even if the harmonic series is based on a different note.
Horns and trumpets couldn’t always play a full chromatic scale, so they are transposing instruments.
Yea that’s typically true but sometimes transpositions/treble clef will commonly be used for all brass instruments in brass bands where it makes it easier to switch in between them. Like stitching between saxes.
@@johnspence5689oh man brass band is another can of worms lol
@@AndewMole hey hey but it’s part of the full story
@@johnspence5689 Not quite "all" - bass trombone plays in bass clef. Tenor trombones play in treble (transposing) or tenor clef (non transposing) - it's an "eccentric" tradition.
@@mustafa1name tenors don’t play in tenor clef much, mostly bass clef. Same with bass bone. Both bass and tenor can technically read transposing treble clef. So yes. All.
Three easy ways to work out the transposition:
1. When the instrument plays a written C, the sounding note is the pitch of the instrument. For example, if an Alto Sax plays C, we hear an E♭, so it's an E♭ Alto Sax. This is taught really early in transposition, and appears in this video.
2. The written key added to the pitch of the instrument makes the Concert Pitch. For example, an E♭ Alto Sax (3 flats) with its music in B♭ (2 flats) means the Concert Pitch is 5 flats (D♭), which is what the music for flute, oboe, bassoon, and strings would be written in. If a B♭ Tenor Sax (2 flats) has music written in A major (3 sharps), the Concert Pitch is 2 flats _or_ -2 sharps (you can swap between negative and positive if you swich the accidental) + 3 sharps, equals 1 sharp, or G major.
3. The pitch of the instrument takes care of part of the key signature. If concert pitch is E major (4 sharps), and your instrument is Clarinet in A (3 sharps), three of those four sharps are dealt with by the instrument, and your written music would be in one sharp (G major). Concert E major is a bit nastier on a B♭ Clarinet. Concert E major (4 sharps) - Instrument's pitch (-2 sharps, the same as 2 flats) equals 6 sharps. No-one wants to play in F♯ major when you could switch instrument and play in G major.
Caveat. Trombones and Tubas are nearly always in concert pitch if in bass clef despite any pitch in their name. In treble clef, Tubas usually are in the pitch they claim to be, but Trombones will vary, dependin on if they're in a brass band or somewhere else. Older Flutes might also be different from what you'd expect. They were sometimes names after the sound produced by 123|456 (rather than written C at 123|456|7), so they might be a tone out. Or maybe not. Tin Whistles are nearly always named for 123|456, and are usually a tone out.
Bass clef doesn't always mean concert pitch. Horns, Bass Clarinet and Basset Horn keep their transposition even in bass clef.
You're pretty safe assuming alto clef and tenor clef are always in concert pitch.
@mrewan6221 I’m now beginning to understand why many sounding pitches are **lower** than written pitches, not the other way round-you need to understand what the sounding pitch is before equating it to the written pitch. For example, if a B-flat clarinet player plays a middle C as written, the concert pitch will be B-flat below the staff.
You see, when I was younger, I learned-or appeared to have learned-that transposing instruments were always a [said interval] ***above*** concert pitch. It was based on this idea that I was able to determine the equivalent of one key signature for a transposing instrument vis-à-vis concert-pitched instruments.
I could possibly look at scores written for transposing instruments and see if I can determine written pitches for a concert-pitched instrument; perhaps I’ll better understand the concept.
Your transposition hacks are highly likely to work, too. (-:
@@DwainRichardson Yes, I agree that transposition can be thought of as "above" concert. But it's the written music that's above, not the sound. The instrument lowers the pitch, so the written music has to compensate so the correct pitch is heard. For B♭ Clarinet (an instrument a tone lower than a Flute), the Clarinet's music has to be written a tone higher.
Of course, there are exceptions. E♭ Clarinet, D Clarinet, D♭ Piccolo, Tenoroon, E♭ Sopranino and others all have sounding pitch _above_ concert pitch, so their music has to be written lower than concert pitch.
"If you have perfect pitch I hope that hurt your soul." 🤣
Tuba and Trombone are similar in the fact that their fundamental pitch is Bb but they both read in concert pitch.
Funny that it's supposed to make it easier to switch between instruments in the same family, cause for the brass it does the exact opposite. The same fingering on a trumpet gives the same pitch on a tuba, but the note is named differently. A concert picth Bb on a Bb trumpet is no valve down and it's named and written C. On a tuba or an euphonium, the same concert Bb is produced with no vlave down, but is written and named Bb. So when I put down my trumpet and take up my euphonium, I have to re-learn all the fingerings, even though both have the same tubing lenght (only octaves appart) and will produce the same pitch for any given valve combination. It's only a convention that should be left out IMO.
I switched from trumpet to euphonium and I read “baritone TC” parts with trumpet fingerings.
Very nice video. But you didn't address the question about orchestral instruments that drives me crazy, and for which I can find no answer anywhere: Why did orchestras evolve such that woodwinds are most at home in the flat keys, while the strings are most at home in the sharp keys (based on the available open strings for double stops and general resonance)? While it make sense that the tempered scale allows playing in all 12 keys, wouldn't it have made sense to have both major sections of the orchestra be centered in the same place, and be at home in the same 4 or 5 keys? (This from a guitarist who plays jazz, mostly written for horns in flat keys!)
Can’t say about woodwinds, but for strings it’s because it’s much easier to shift your hand up a half step to play in a sharp key than down for a flat key. For example, an A can be played on an open A string, and A# can also be played on an open A string, but an Ab cannot. Flats require you to occasionally go against instinct as it relates to which notes are played on which strings
I was told by one of my music professors that it had to do with rough historical pitches in regions like France and Germany. France had a very low tuning back in the day (roughly a whole-step lower than today). France was known for the best woodwind manufacturers, so composers wrote with the lower tunings of those instruments in mind.
It always sounded like a weird explanation to me since flute doesn't transpose, and neither does oboe.
The alto flute and the English horn are transposing instruments. They are pitched a fourth and a fifth, respectively, lower than the corresponding "soprano" instruments. That is, the alto flute is in G and the English horn is in F. Probably the (rare) baritone oboe and the (similar) Heckelphone are also transposing instruments, but I'd have to look this up. I'm not sure about the bass flute, either. I think your professor's explanation might apply in some special cases, but not generally.
Sometimes woodwind parts had to be transposed when playing with different pipe organs. The organs varied in their tuning. Strings could retune (although it would have affected the tone quality), and horns might have been able to use a different crook to adjust the pitch.
I learnt to play music on recorder and I still play recorders. Recorders don't transpose, all the music is written in C, but I don't find it that difficult to swap between an F instrument (alto) and a C instrument (soprano or tenor). It just takes a little bit of readjustment for a few minutes to read the music differently.
I'm a recorder player too!!! Currently trying to work on the Brandenburg Concerto 5 on my Tenor!
Ummm I think you mistook the point man, if a c has the same fingerings on all of them then it’s transposing. Same fingering=different note=transposing.
@@johnspence5689 No, they didn't miss the point. Recorder players really do have two sets of fingerings, one for when the instrument's lowest note is C, and the other for when the instrument's lowest note is F.
The note they read is the note they think they're playing, and is the note that sounds. They are always playing in concert pitch.
(The C recorders are the descant/soprano, the tenotr and the garklein. There are also some quite large instruments, but the names seem to vary, so a real recorder player might be a better person to ask for names. The F recorders are treble/alto, sopranino, and bass/basset. Again, there are larger instruments with seemingly variable names.
There have also been recorders in G, B♭, D and probably other keys. I believe they were all played with different sets of fingerings. If you had music for a trio of G-C-F, you could play it on C-F-B♭ instruments. In this case, all three instruments would be transposing by the same amount, but the players would still be using their C-F-B♭ fingerings.)
@@mrewan6221 oh okay, I understand. Hear me out tho, isn’t that the harder way though? If there was just one set of fingerings and it just sounded down a fourth or whatnot then wouldn’t it be easier and more accessible.
Also in general I don’t think you should call your instrument “in concert pitch” if you are just reading concert pitch. I just like to specify between when the instrument is transposing or if you are
@@johnspence5689 Yes, I've never understood why recorders didn't just adopt a single set of fingerings like flutes, etc. When I write for recorders I always provide two parts for the "F" instruments: one in the regular "F" fingering, and the other transposed so the instrument can be played with "C" fingering.
The most common argument I've heard is that most of the music is very old, and isn't transposed, so they have to learn two sets of fingerings anyway. To which I'd say - for new music - why not start standardising? The players wouldn't be learning a third set of fingerings, just using one of them more.
There's also the argument that recorders used to be spaced in fifths, so if you had a piece for adjacent trio, you could play it on any three adjacent instruments. But that's exactly what transposing is!
"Concert Pitch" has long had the meaning, of "if the note you see and play is the same as the sounding note, the instrument is in Concert Pitch". Everyone who plays in any ensemble uses "Concert Pitch" like this. Woodwind, brass, strings.
Some people have tried to make it mean the note that sounds when all fingers are down (T|123|456|7). This just happens to work on flute, oboe, saxophone, half the recorders and the upper register of clarinets.
Then they try to shoe-horn bassoon, and the other half of recorders into this T|123|456|7 = F as the pitch of the instrument, but it just doesn't work for clarinet lower register. And the players don't think of it like that.
And can't easily be applied to most brass (double, triple horns, trombones, euphoinum and tubas in bass clef), and makes no sense for strings. The violin's lowest note is G, viola and cello C, bass E or maybe C, or B. Xylophones and other mallet instruments have variable compasses, and even pianos don't always start at A.
So why don't bassoons change? For the same reason we're still using QWERTY. The system works as is for bassoons and bassoonists. To treat bassoons as transposing instruments in F would mean a whole lot of _new_ learning, unlike recorders.
Apart from theatre, there's very little doubling between bassoon and other instruments. The most likely double anywhere else is with contrabassoon, which has the same fingerings as bassoon. (The most likely theatre doubling in theatre for bassoon is with bass clarinet and bari sax. It's common enough for players to get used to it.) Of all the woodwinds, the instrument most likely to get its own book, with no doubling at all, it the bassoon.
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For normal playing, it's always the instrument that's transposing, while the player is reading from pre-transposed music. The player sees a note and plays that note. Every player who sees "G" plays "G" on their instrument. Usually, the players are not transposing.
Except … sometime you might purposely be given a "wrong" part if an instrument is unavailable. Most oboe players will be able to sight-transpose a cor anglais part. I have sight transposed French horn and B♭ clarinet parts on bassoon. This sort of thing happens a lot in theatre pits, where the oboist might now have a cor, and it's only one song. Or where the third horn is mostly optional except for one exposed bit.
The other time when the player transposes might be when accompanying a singer. The conductor might ask for a playout, maybe the last 16 bars up a tone. The players of pitched instruments in the whole ensemble are then transposing. Maybe a less confusing term for this might be "key-shifting", as everyone is doing it, despite the pitch of their instrument.
This is a great explanation on the matter. I’ve been looking for this explanation for awhile now and never got anything substantial. The fact that this exists only for “ergonomic” reasons rather than pure musical ones it’s beautiful to me. Congrats on the video, I did subscribe to the channel. 🎉
Thank you, I truly appreciate it. Welcome to Tutti!
A tuba is called a Bb tuba because that’s the note that sounds when no valves are pressed. A trumpet player reads that note as a C, but for some reason bass clef brass is notated in the sounding pitch, making them non-transposing (and also making the fingerings differ ).
In British brass band music, the same tuba would read music in B flat and use trumpet fingerings-meaning the same instrument is transposing after all.
Very concise and informative. Congrats for the quality content and wishing you the best of luck!
Thank you!
Tuba music when written in bass clef will most likely be in C and the tubist would have to relearn fingerings for each different key of tuba. When tuba music is written in treble clef, how it is transposed depends of the key of the tuba (Eb in Eb treble, Bb in Bb treble) but that is mostly found in British style brass bands and not much in other places. Some European composers do write tuba music in Bb bass clef but I have not heard of it in any orchestral repertoire mainly solo work and technical exercises.
This is like music for recorders being usually written at sounding pitch, even though most recorders come in C and F sizes (arrayed in octaves), thus requiring players to learn 2 sets of fingerings and do octave transposition in their head. But reportedly, recorder music occasionally was written transposing.
The obvious question: Why would you write tuba music in the treble clef to begin with?
@@donlibes Writing tubas in 𝄞 means that most of the brass band has the same fingering for every instrument. (Bass trombone plays in concert pitch, 𝄢.) In a brass band you're more likely to move from cornet, to baritone, to "bass" than you are in other ensembles.
@@donlibes tuba is mostly written in treble clef in brass bands because it makes it easy for the musicians to swap between the instruments without having to learn new fingerings
@@stefantuba @mrewan6221, I wish your explanation made sense but I was taught baritone horn with different fingerings when reading treble clef (transposing as a Bb instrument) and bass clef (non-transposing). Sigh.
Woodwinds appear in just two basic written scales: One where 123 is G and 123|456 is D, and the other where 123 is C and 123|456 is G. Flute, Oboe, Saxophone all have 123=G, Bassoon has 123=C. Clarinet is like Flute (etc) in the upper register, and like Bassoon in the lower register. Recorders switch between the two systems as the sizes change.
What this means it that once you learn the more common fingering (123=G), you can switch between a lot of different instruments of different sizes. Piccolo, Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute, Oboe, Oboe d'Amore, Cor Anglais (English Horn), Hecklephone, E♭ Clarinet, D Clarinet, C Clarinet, B♭ Clarinet, A Clarinet, Basset Horn, E♭ Alto Clarinet, B♭ Bass Clarinet, E♭ Contralto Clarinet, B♭ Contra Bass Clarinet, E♭ Sopranino Sax, B♭ Soprano Sax, E♭ Alto Sax, B♭ Tenor Sax, E♭ Bari Sax, and B♭ Bass Sax. (Yes, I've played with other players who were playing all of these; there are still more.)
This is really, useful in theatre pit orchestras, where it's standard for the Reed players to switch instruments. You don't want to have to remember a whole swarm of different fingerings. Most players have to play a clarinet and a saxophone, often a flute, and maybe a specialist instrument, such as oboe or bassoon. Because of the clarinet, you're switching between 123=G and 123=C, so the other instruments don't cause many difficulties. So long as you remember what happens with 123|4 (Oboe and Bassoon is a semitone below 123, the others are a tone below), then it's only trills and extreme notes the might cause problems (and the "break" on clarinets).
For those still following, the best way to annoy bassoonists (my instrument) is to play 123|456|7, think of it as C, hear a different note and proclaim that the bassoon is in F. It's not, for the same reason the clarinet isn't in two different keys at once.
The “f” is based off of the natural scale of the instrument. Technically the natural scale(0,1,12,123…1234567) is a f scale(with a b natural) on a bassoon. The natural scale for the alto is eb.
@@johnspence5689 I would respectfully disagree. You seem to be applying the "rule" that the sound 123|456|7 makes is also the pitch of the instrument; that this note is the tonic of an instrument's "natural scale". This method fails for B♭ clarinet, as that note is indeed B♭ in the upper register, but is E♭ in the lower register - the one every student learns first. No-one would say the "regular" clarinet is pitched in E♭. All clarinets have the same "5th out" in the lower register.
No bassoonist in the history of the world would ever agree that our instrument is in F. Bassoon fingerings are old. We just have a set of fingerings that never joined in with the standardisation of Boehm, Sax, Sarrus, and the French Conservatoire. Probabably because we didn't need to. There were very few variants to the instrument, probably because of the large range, and the ability to blend with everything.
There have been quart- and quint- tenoroons, but there's little they can do that other instruments can't do better. There have also been other odd instruments from time to time. Widor expected a semi-contra bassoon (in F) to become very popular "any day now", in 1889. We're still waiting.
We also have the contrabassoon, also in C, with 123|456|7 playing and sounding an F. In the early days, they weren't particularly good, and different inventors looked for alternatives. The Adolphe Sax's first saxophone was a B♭ bass, intended as a replacement for the contrabassoon. We have the poor contrabassoon to thank for the whole saxophone family, and indirectly the bass clarinet. More recently we have the Contraforte, which is still growingin popularity and might become standard, although contrabassoons are much better now.
Another good example of transposing for fingerings is the sax family which interesting enough also use the same fingerings as the flutes effectively allowing you to know the fingerings for both families (though I know you wouldn’t mention this because sax isn’t orchestral)
I didn't realize it was that similar to flute. Low range before the register key is mostly the same a clarinet.
@@postmodernjambox5951 yeah saxes and flutes literally share fingerings
Sometimes classical orchestral compositions do call for saxophone.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio however it’s not standard. I do love classical orchestral sax. Though I play the tenor and generally in classical settings it will be an alto used
So that's why I've seen multiple instrumentalists who can effortlessly switch between flute and saxophone!
Bass clarinet is also transposed Bb (but an octave lower), so transitioning from clarinet to bass clarinet is (almost) the same fingering throughout
Definitely not the case with clarinet vs alto clarinet though
Yes it is. Same fingerings as both clarinets. Actually it’s the same for all clarinets as long as the have the same style of keywork. Speaking from experience.
This is a very informative video. Having played stringed instruments most of my life, I never had the need to investigate this subject, although I would be intrigued when I would run across the mention of transposing instruments.
Now that I know what transposing instruments are all about, I can relax and completely disregard the subject, instead of spending a few seconds wondering about them each time I'm reminded of them.
I feel that my life, what's left of it, has just been made slightly more efficient.
Unfortunately, as this video was 9:07 minutes long, and the composition of this comment took a bit of time as well, my feeling of now having a slightly more efficient life is actually a false one.
As my time left on this Earth is certainly much shorter than the time that I've already spent here, the foreseeable accumulated amount of time that I will save in no longer wondering about transposing instruments is likely just a tiny fraction of the time that I've invested in watching and commenting on this video.
I did enjoy the spent time spent doing so, though, so there's that. 👍👍😊😊
Informative! 😊
Just commenting for the algorithm because you deserve it!
Trombone are non-transposing instruments also. Similarly to the tuba, we generally have Bb (tenor and bass) and Eb (alto), and some with triggers that change to another pitch (typically F, Gb, and D). But all read, play, and sound concert pitch.
But you technically could read transposed music like tenor clef baritone. Technically.
There is such a thing as a clarinet in C; it is rare, but it exists. C trumpets are#also fairly common.
Yes. A clarinettist friend of mine had one, to play the oboe parts in a wind quintet. Not sure why no oboist; it was a professional ensemble!
So, it's to make the instrument interfaces to be compatible in that instrument family so a musician who can play one of those can play all of those, thus cutting costs on training and making orchestra positions interchangeable.
The composer knows that, say a C on a clarinet is actually a Bb, and writes the music sheet taking that in consideration, and transpose the tune to the right key, so the instrument will not be out of tune with the rest of the orchestra, for instance, if he wants an E, he writes a Gb.
Most likely, it's just a matter of changing the key signature and shifting the notes up or down the staff.
It's actually a beautiful example of good UI/UX design, in this case, padronizing the fingerings of different instruments, with the trade-off of the extra one off mental work of transposing keys for the composer (that now at days can be automatized via software).
Basically, your conclusions are correct, but there are a few things that are slightly off: It saves a little effort when learning a second, transposing instrument, but not if you want to know what pitches you're really playing. What you gain on the straights, you lose on the roundabouts. It doesn't make orchestra positions interchangeable, because normally an oboist player will double on English horn, a flautist will double on alto flute, a clarinettist will double on bass clarinet, etc.
It's not just shifting the notes up and down the staff, because one has to watch out for the intervals where there's a half-step between note names and accidentals.
There is software for composing and transposing and I did typeset one arrangement using software (MusixTeX). I found it didn't pay and I preferred doing it by hand. It's not that I don't like computers (I was a programmer by profession), but I enjoy writing out music by hand and transposing is no problem, with practice.
Great video man, keep up the amazing videos I love watching your channel!
Thank you very much, I appreciate it a lot!
I'd always had the impression that trombones and tubas DO transpose, but a book I read on music theory claimed they DON'T. Thanks for clarifying.
Now I have to rewrite a fair portion of a story about a musician I've been working on.
Depends how you think of it. The music they read isn’t usually transposed, but the instrument is usually not in concert pitch.
They do transpose in a British style brass band.
Once instruments didn't transpose, thus i.e. recorder players or trombonist had to adjust to different positions for the various instruments they played. That's why nowadays low brasses (trombones and tubas) don't transpose, they traditionally are trained to adapt themselves. The same cannot be said for hornists, clarinetists, saxophonists and trumpetists - Transposition indeed was invented during the 17.th Century precisely to make life easier to hornists and trumpetists having yet to deal with the notoriusly challenging "natural" (valveless) instrument of the era, and it has sticked up ever since.
Ummmm no. Tubas are almost as new as saxes check your history pal
@@johnspence5689 Still, they don't transpose. Probably has to do with the fact their heritage actually traces back to the late 16.th Century, with serpents and ophicleides, which still didn't transpose, by the way what's said for trombones also applies to tubas.
So, in a way, a transposing instrument is like a guitar with a capo: with the capo on the 3rd fret, you play the shape of Am but the sound your guitar makes is Cm. I play baritone guitar (tuned to B standard) and it's very hard to relearn the fretboard. It's easier to rewrite all the parts to fit the actual tuning of the instrument.
Basically.
From a clarinet player's perspective, there are two parts to this question.
Clarinets that play in C actually exist. Beethoven and Schubert both wrote for this form of the instrument. It became obsolete throughout the nineteenth century as the size of orchestras increased. Because the clarinet in B-flat is physically larger it has a bigger sound and is better able to hold its own in a modern orchestral setting. The clarinet in A is a little bigger again, and has survived for the same reason.
The second reason that clarinets transpose, and specifically that we still have two forms of the instrument, B-flat and A, is to play solo repertoire. Mozart wrote his Clarinet Concerto and Clarinet Quintet in A, to be played on a clarinet in A. Although in theory you could play these pieces on a clarinet in B-flat, it would be like transposing a famous violin or piano concerto. People would think that you don't know what you're doing, or that you're trying to prove a point.
In this context the recorder is interesting.Recorders are not transposing, but they lowest tone is either C or F. for a whole range on instruments. Fingering is the same for each instrument, though you need to learn to play an f scale or a C scale. For the lower recorders, using the F key of course you need to learn this key as well, which may take some time. To make things a bit more complicated, the sporano and sopranino recorder are written one octave lower. To make things even more complicated there are instruments like the voice flute, which is is in D (not transposing as far as I know). Recorder players tend to play a large range of instruments and individual instruments may require different fingering. Combined with all helper fingerings for difficult situations, like playing very soft, playing micro tones and double sounds and so on additional fingerings exist. Lucy Horsch, one of the most famous recorder players claims the 500 fingerings exist for the recorder. Not sure if that is true.
So in an orchestral arrangement, who gets the harder to read notations? Is there a convention? Thanks, great topic choice!
Great, informative video. Drummer/Bassist here and I wasn’t aware of any of this so thank you, I’ve learned my new thing for the day. My 1 concern though is your logo unfortunately reminds me of a swastika.
So while the sound is different than the written note, cannot we say that the vice versa of that is also true? That is, the written note is different than the sound. It is as if all the notes on the instrument have been RENAMED on purpose to get them to fit the staff position they are using for any one particular instrument, making the range of the horn more suitably align with the staff and easier to read. And that's not the only reason for transposing. Thanks for stating the other reasons.
Really thought he was going to explain the physics behind why an instrument plays the way it does, and how it works mechanicaly. If anyone could tell me where to look for that I'd be very happy.
I recommend starting with the book "Horns, Strings and Harmony" by Arthur Benade. He also wrote a book called "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics", which is a much more detailed and rigorous treatment of the subject. Both are published by Dover Publications and are in print.
2:01 it did very much
Wonder what musicians around the world think about transposing instruments. I was born and raised in the States, so I learned music the way you’ve described it, but I’ve been living in Japan for 20+ years so I know they use the fixed DO system rather than letter names. 🎵 Thanks for the video.
Fixed do just means that do means c. They don’t use letters, just do re mi Fa sol la ti do
@@johnspence5689 Right, but they make no distinction between, say, a C-major scale and a C#-major scale.
@@johnspence5689in Spain it’s do re mi fa sol la si, and in France do is ut
@@stephenmessano1847yes, one is a do mayor scale (so do re mi fa sol la si) and the other one is a do sostenido (or sharp or what you call it) mayor scale (so do# re# mi# fa# sol# la# si#), that’s the distinction
@@stephenmessano1847 I don’t think this other guy in the comments gets the question but yes they would differentiate between a c and C sharp scale. That is with FIXED DO though. Movable do is where you move around the tonic(do) and you’re just going based off of the intervals. In movable do C sharp major and c major would be the same. In fixed do theyd be completely different. Fixed do means c=do d=re e=mi etc… so a B-flat=Si/Ti-flat.
I play the French Horn. I can use the same fingering, and a bit more air, and play a Baryton.
I still don't understand why they call it "transposing instruments" as if the instrument has a transpose button (some digital pianos does; and a capo on a guitar does actually do that); the instrument does nothing, it's just the sheet music that is written transposed and a weird convention on how to read it. Also isn't this horribly confusing for people with absolute pitch? I can't read sheet music; I only play by ear so it doesn't make any sense to me. But I would expect if I had absolute pitch I would probably find it very confusing to see a C and hear something else; so I would probably then figure out the fingering to hear a C instead, which would be wrong of course.
On a piano when playing for myself I will often transpose a melody to make it easier to play because of the A-minor / C-major focused layout some keys+modes are easier or harder, though weirdly I'm very often playing in D-minor rather than A-minor even though D-minor has more black keys; I just think D-minor sounds better I guess.
You're right, I've read that some people with perfect pitch have a terrible time transposing. D minor only has one black key and Noel Coward, who also only played by ear, favored Eb maj. (with three black keys --- Cm is the relative minor). You're also right that the instruments don't transpose, the people do. If a Bb trumpet could think, it would think it was playing in Bb. It's a convention that puts the burden on the composer or orchestrator rather than the player.
I used to think it was just a bad idea, but I've changed my opinion. Often, when I play something on my tenor trombone, I'll imagine the slide positions of my alto trombone and vice versa. This often puts the melody into a better range for the instrument. I'll do the same thing with recorders in F, that is, I'll imagine the fingerings for a recorder in C. In addition, thinking of everything being in C is useful for chromatic harmonicas in different keys.
As a wind player, I find myself transposing all the time, even for C instruments, in order to get a song into a playable range. It's definitely a useful skill, even if you can't read music.
@@laurencefinston7036 Ah; I don't really think about what exact keys or how I shape my hand when I play; I just press a few keys so I hear where I am; and then I just find the key I want to start from either from an idea in my mind or from remembering/listening to a song, and then I just somehow know which keys to press to go from there. I just feel that some starting keys feel more awkward; so I havent even thought about how many black keys D-minor has.
When I transpose a melody to be less awkward, I just play the starting key and walk down one semitone at a time until I arrive at some starting key I think would be less awkward, and then I just transpose the melody to start from that key in my mind and start playing in the new key.
Which with most pop music ends up being C major or A minor, and for some reason with Scandinavian folk melodies some kind of D key... I'm not entirely sure it's actually D-minor or some other mode of D I seem to prefer when I just improvise, I think it has one or two black keys where one is sort of "optional" depending on how I want it to feel or is only used when going down but rarely when going up or something. I dunno...It's whatever mode and key; most of Jan Johansson's "Jazz på Svenska" is in; since that's some of the first songs I learned to play on piano so those keys feel comfortable to me.
Just tested on my piano and a "scale finder" app online and realised my favuorite scales are apparently A minor, D harmonic minor and D melodic minor. And also several other scales starting at A or D that have 8 or 9 keys in an octave; which I guess are some kind of blues scale or some some traditional Nordic scale, which the scale finder app could not identify. (Which would make sense since I learned them from an album of Nordic folk music inspired jazz)
I think these are the ones where I don't play the same notes going up and down or always swap a black or white key at the high register; it certainly feels odd to play every note in the melody in rising or falling order even though it sounds perfectly natural when they are part of the melody. And I don't think it's a key change that is causing it, because I play most of the keys with the same bass notes.
@@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug At one time, I practiced scales a lot but what I found to work best was to learn the major scales and their relative minors inside and out and otherwise play by ear. It's also important to know the intervals in the various chords. I already knew them from playing from lead sheets and especially from playing chord melodies on the guitar.
The "harmonic minor" scale is an artificial construction; no pieces of music in the Baroque or Classical eras were ever composed in the key of x harmonic minor. The rationale for it was that often, when playing in a minor key, one plays the major sixth and seventh when ascending and the minor ones when descending. However, this wasn't always done. Names like this and of some other scales are an attempt to create a system and force the music to fit into it.
Many of the best players can't read music and I regret that I was discouraged from playing by ear when I was a child. I believe that the most important musical skill is being able to hear something in your head and realize it on an instrument, just the way people sing or whistle to themselves. It's nice to be able to read and write music, transpose, know about music theory, etc., but those things are secondary, in my opinion.
You're right. Rather than calling it a transposing instrument, we could call it an instrument adjusted to be played with transposed music, so that it sounds as though the music isn't transposed. But that's all a bit unwieldy, so "transposing instrument" is used.
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The other meaning of "transposition" is when you change the key of a piece of music. Maybe it's well ahead of time (say when writing tutor books for "high voice" and "low voice"). Maybe it's in rehearsal (the singer wants to take it up a little). Maybe it's in the final dress-rehersal (we need a playout here; play the last sixteen bars up a tone).
For these last-minute transpositions, all the players will be expected to adjust on the spot. Or there could be a very, vary rare case where you have the instrument in a different pitch that would work.
5'42": This is what happens for an E♭ Alto Clarinet, not a B♭ Bass Clarinet (which would just sound an octave lower than and ordinary B♭ Clarinet).
Pog video!
bruh
1:20 I immediately got a simply piano ad😭😭
Excuse me! I have perfect pitch and I don’t feel like having my soul injured.
so does the thumbnail say "transpcsition" or "transpesition". or "transpdsition"
Deep thoughts 🤔🤔😂
Good one 😂
The most stupid thing is that trumpets are transposed in Bb but in some types of music (for example church music in C). So you need to learn different types of fingering depending on the type of music. This is also the same for trombones when they have to read in Bb treble cleff. (In this case this is quite easy because it's just tenor cleff in a different key but still pain)
Does it count that the double bass sounds an octave lower then written?
Yes it does, along with some other orchestral instruments (piccolo, contrabassoon, etc.). Any that don’t play the exact notated pitch are transposing instruments (for the purposes of the video I focused only on those that change the note itself, not just the octave 😊).
Let's not confuse the issue with ALL brass band instruments playing in treble clef in Bb or Eb..... except for bass trombone! 🙄 🤬
I think the easiest way to think of it is "nearly all" instruments play on the stave plus 2-3 ledger lines above and below. That way nobody gets hurt and it rarely ends in tears 😁
The best explanation I've ever heard about this topic
Yes this is largely correct but you didn't mention the A clarinet. This clarinet, about and inch and a half longer, and therefore every key adjusted for the size, exists solely to make orchestral clarinetists pay twice as much for two clarinets one of which they will hardly use.
The other reason it exists is that some composers insist on writing music in keys that when transposed for Bb clarinets put them in awkward or difficult keys to play. Not withstanding a decent music education would have given the clarinetist the ability to play in any key, the score would be written in such a way as to be full of enharmonic spellings and confusing accidentals. A score in Concert B would put a Bb clarinet in C#. Using an A clarinet means the transposition is up a minor third, rather than a major 2nd. Rendering that B major key a simple key of D major. Thus allowing the orchestral clarinetist to satisfy themselves that shelling out for another professional quality clarinet was (just about) worth it.
Of course all this is because of the monumentally stupid decision to make C a default position, to be played with no flats or sharps just on the white keys of the piano.
This makes C simple to play and notate, but renders every other key ever more complex the more remote from C it is.
If a proper chromatic system had been adopted with every key using just two black notes, there would be just two hand patterns to play any scale and the semitone and tone relationships far more obvious. Transposition would have been a doddle.
90% of what needs to be taught to elementary music students is entirely the fault of this stupid system and is the reason 90% of them give up.
"[...] exists solely to make orchestral clarinetists pay twice as much for two clarinets one of which they will hardly use."
Serves 'em right! Signed, The brass section.
Hi, it is dumb. But not the instrument. The Music notation is… dumb.
i play 4 instruments all are transposed 😀
I get it make thinks easier for kids and learning adults, but is it so relevant to world class musicians? Honest question.
So annoying. I started an arrangement of Cage's 4'33" for wind band, but gave up because of all the transposing instruments
I agree that it’s stupid😅 but at least I know why now
I still don’t understand transposition. Why didn’t the manufacturers just make instruments in one key, like C, that read the correct written and sounding pitches to make it more understandable?
Instruments are constructed in different sizes so they can have different ranges of pitch. The idea of "transposing instruments" is meant to make things easier for the player, but it makes things more difficult for the composer or orchestrator or anyone trying to read a score. It's just a convention, the instruments don't really transpose, the people do. If a player learns that a certain fingering for an oboe (a non-transposing instrument) means "C", and that person wants to play an English horn (like an oboe, but tuned a fifth below in F), then it's (supposedly) easier for the player if a written part is written a fifth "too high". Then, when he or plays it, thinking "C" for a note notated as "C", then an F will come out.
Alto and lower recorders are non-transposing instruments and the soprano and sopranino recorders are notated an octave below the way they sound. This doesn't present any problem for reading or writing. Trombones are also non-transposing instruments, although the alto trombone is in Eb and the tenor in Bb.
I play the trumpet, but not usually music written for trumpet. My trumpet is in Bb, which is the most common tuning, and trumpet music for Bb trumpet is notated a whole step "too high", so if you play a notated D, a C will come out. I learned the valve positions in the conventional way, so when I play non-transposed music, I have to transpose up a whole step in my head. This has become so much of a habit that it's easier for me than playing music that's been transposed for Bb trumpet.
I hope this had made things clearer. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
@@blaubeer8039 The Bb trumpet has a convenient size and range. I've got a D/Eb trumpet (with two bells and two sets of slides, that can be exchanged) and I like playing it, but I find the higher pitch tiring to listen to after a certain length of time, so I tend to use it for "special occasions". Brass bands generally use instruments pitched in Bb and Eb and jazz developed out of that tradition, so I think it's likely that that's why brass instruments in these pitches are most common. It's one of those things where it doesn't matter that much, one must just make a choice. A difference of a whole tone in pitch makes some difference, but not a huge amount. In the past, cornets were more commonly found in the orchestra than trumpets and when trumpets were used, they were often "concert" trumpets with rotary valves. I've got instruments with rotary valves (but not trumpets) and ones with Perinet valves and I think it's six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other.
The range of the alto horn in Eb overlaps nicely with that of the trumpet in Bb. Also, a Bb trumpet is about as large and heavy an instrument as I would be comfortable holding for a long time in that position, since there's no counterweight, as with the trombone, and you can't rest it on your shoulder. The alto horn is held like a tuba.
The Reed 3 player in West Side Story has to play Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, Tenor Saxophone, and Baritone Saxophone. That's eight instruments.
You're swapping between them for the whole show, often several times in a song. If they all had their own concert pitch fingerings (i.e. put these fingers down to get the same note on any instrument - like a piano), only flute/oboe and Bass Clarinet/Tenor Sax would be played the same way. It would get very confusing, very fast.
Instead, transposition means all eight instruments are played with nearly the same fingerings ('though the Clarinet and Bass Clarinet have a different set of fingerings in the lower register).
With the frantic swappings, it's one thing less to worry about. Instead, you can concentrate on air, reed, and all the other mechanical things they appear to challenge your playing!
@@mrewan6221 What version of the score is this from? Scores for Broadway musicals usually exist in two versions, one for Broadway, London and other venues with more resources and a simplified version for stock and touring companies. I don't have the piano reduction of West Side Story (or any scores by Bernstein), but I checked the ones for Candide, On the Town and Wonderful town, and they all have more reed players (5 or 6) and the doublings aren't as extreme.
Oboes don't use the Boehm system and the fingerings are somewhat different from those of the flute; enough to make it confusing when switching back and forth. I believe I've heard of a double reed attachment for a clarinet, to make it possible for a clarinetist to make a passable imitation of an oboe, but it makes my fingers tremble to type about such an abomination.
@@laurencefinston7036 Oboe players I've worked with ramble on about "Conservatoire" (which I think is French) and "Thumb-Plate", which I think is English. They would both have some differences, and also differences from Boehm. But I think 1,2,3,5,6 are pretty much the same. On at least one oboe system, 4 is a semitone below 3, like bassoon.
All the side keys will be different, but that's true for every woodwind.
I've played a single-reed clarinet-style mouthpiece for bassoon. I felt it was dreadful; the single-reed player who had to cover bassoon got a better sound than using a proper bassoon reed.
not all woodwinds are doing this: recorders don’t do!
erm... saxophone
If you played harmonica... you would understand trasposing inmediatelly 😅
I’ve seen soooo many people in musescore not understanding it , like F on horn Trumpet and Piano 💀💀
pretty sure saxophones are
Still doesn’t make sense to me
A number of years ago, I worked with a man who spoke several languages, at least four, I think. He was visiting me one day, and noticed that I had several woodwind instruments laying on my table. He asked me to play the same song on three of them as it happened, a flute, clarinet, and alto saxophone. He asked me to play the same song on all three of them. I chose to play the opening bars of Ravel’s Bolero. In order to have them all sound in the same key, I played it in the key of B-flat on the flute, C on the clarinet, and G on the saxophone. He paid very close attention as I played, and when I was done, he asked me why my fingers moved so differently on each instrument. I wasn’t sure how to explain transposing instruments to him, so instead, I gave him this explanation. I said “In the same way that you are multilingual, I am multi-fingeral.” He stared at me for a moment, then shook his head and changed the subject.
Thats an interesting point. I like Multi-fingeral as a term. But for most players this is quite a challenge and betrays how we read music. You may well have done this 'by ear' which is good and its a simple enough melody. But reading music and transposing 'at sight' is awkward. Practice helps of course and there are a few 'hacks' but generally it is challenging. We 'map' what we see to a muscular response. Any pianist (and other instrumentalists) will have the experience of seeing notated music and having involuntary reactions in the fingers.
It would be wonderful if we were multifingeral.
@@lyntedrockley7295 Yes, I was playing Bolero by ear, but if I had to play in more than 4 flats or 3 sharps, I would need a bit of practice. I guess I could say that my fingers “know” the intervals between pitches in those keys.
For me, a melody is a collection of intervals and durations. The actual pitches are arbitrary. When I listen to a song that I want to learn, I think of the fingerings for the notes of the melody on different woodwinds in a convenient key for the current instrument. Usually C for most instruments, D for the oboe, and sometimes F for the clarinet. And yes, I do move my fingers.
Speaking of the oboe, it is unusual among the woodwinds that I’ve played in that its natural scale is D. The flute and saxophone have a natural scale of C. And the clarinet has two natural scales, C in the high register and F in the low register.
I don’t know if this counts as transposing or not, but I can play duets on a C flute with an E-flat alto saxophone by adding 3 flats to the key signature and reading it in bass clef.
Sorry if I’ve bored anyone with this babbling.
Dude... you _might_ want to dial the color grading back a notch for the next video.
This looks really unhealthy.
Although it probably isn't.
But it's really distracting.
Sorry but this is a misconception. No instruments (excepts a digital keyboard type instrument) does any transposing. It is the music that is transposed in advance. The instruments themselves doesn't do any transposing at all. Sad misconception.
Well, as a horn player I disagree with "the instruments don't do any transposing at all". I've had to read Eb horn music even though I play F horn because it is normal in the musical style I play.
How is setting the transposition function on an electric piano down two half steps different from playing a Bb trumpet? In both cases you finger a C, play a C, but a Bb sounds.
Also, what would you propose as an alternative name?
I think its you @stampenrangers
thats under a misconception.
@@lyntedrockley7295No, he's right. The notes you play on the instrument are what they are because of the construction of the instrument, so in order to play the correct pitches, the music is pitched accordingly. If you play violin and you read off of Bb clarinet music, it will sound off. The instrument is referred to as "transposing" because of what was explained at the end of the video (how it relates to C major).
Nine minutes for one paragraph?