Finally someone explains this so we all understand the concept of closed or open face when adjusting loft,thank you so much ! That deserves a subscription !
THANK GOODNESS for the video. No manufacturer speaks to this. All golfers I know changes loft without manipulating the face back to square and believe loft has been altered only to create direction issues with no loft change. Thanks.
Ok, if I understand correctly, you can simply rotate the club to change both the lie and loft, or you can do it with the hosel. The advantage of doing it with the hosel is that you end up with a club that sits naturally in the desired position, and you can consistently reproduce that position.
This is one of the most effective and clear explanations of the function of adjustable drivers that I've ever come across. It has helped me understand my own Ping Anser driver even better than before. The Anser tends to 'fall,' when the sole is allowed to rest on the turf, slightly open. Maybe a degree give or take, to my eye. So even the neutral setting is just a little open. In general, though I tend to prefer to cut the ball off the tee, I find it difficult to draw the ball from this position when I need/want to, unless I really work to shut the face during the swing, which can too often lead to pull hooks. Or I have to align my body so far right at address it feels ridiculous. Instead, I now understand that I can actually just aim my body and the club face right of my intended target and pre-set the face 'closed' a degree or two, take my grip and make the same swing I normally would to produce a draw. Great content!
Too funny! I had the same setup with that club and then the Aerojet ls. Taking a 9 degree and lofting to 10.5 made it a fairway finding baby cut machine with roll out. Great club!
Thanks for clearing this up.explains why I tend to pull hook my 10.5 driver at 12 degree. Always felt like the face was to closed lofting up. Thank you
This is a fantastic video. So if I play my 9 degree driver at 4* open I am really playing almost a 10* driver even if I deloft it to 7.5*. This is the best explanation I have seen that I have tried to convey to friends.
If you square it up at impact, your loft is 7.5. This is why all clubs are measured with the face rotated to a 0* "square" face. Of course, if you leave the face open at impact there will be more dynamic loft (all else equal), for any club
A nice summary would be: 1) Driver adapter changes face angle if you let driver sit as it wants. 2) Driver adapter changes loft if you square the face to the target.
This is a reason I still play with my 2009 Cobra S9-1M offset driver. Just love the way it looks and preforms for me. I tinker with my golf clubs enough without a an adjustable hosel.
*Decreasing* the loft opens the face and will fade the shot a bit. *Increasing* the loft closes the face and will draw the shot a bit. You can also shift or adjust weight by using lead tape to influence shot shape. Toe side for fade, heel side for draw. On some drivers you can adjust the lie angle as well. This can counteract the fade/draw bias. To reduce fade, adjust the lie angle up. If your shots fall out of the sky or hook/slice violently, you need more back spin: increase loft. It becomes a balancing act of distance (less spin with less loft) and accuracy (more spin, increased loft) NOTE: if you have an outside in swing path (negative attack angle) you will want more loft. If you have an inside out swing path (positive attack angle) you will want less loft.
Couple year old video that answers a question I've had with a driver I'm working with. I'm playing with a PXG 0811 Proto Plus driver and feel like I need to hold it slightly open at address to get my desired ball flight. With my Taylor Made Sim 2 Max I get the ball flight I want with a neutral feeling at address. The PXG is 10.5 loft and Taylor made is 9 degree. I'll try the PXG at a lower loft setting to see if it gives me both the ball fight and the feeling at address that I prefer. Thanks for this info. I've been thinking of the loft adjustment as only that.
I play a G410 in the flat lie setting. Generally I don’t want the ball to go left and play a Small fade where possible. As Trevino said “you can talk to a fade; a hook won’t listen”!
Was just playing around with my old r9 settings last night. It has taylormade’s FCT hosel, and the charts for it only highlight face angle and shot shape. But the newer hosels label it as higher/lower, rather than left/right, even though it is essentially the same sleeve.
Exact same idea, just how the marketing people decide to go with it. Focusing on loft adjustments also means OEMs can make fewer different lofted drivers instead of 7.5, 8.5, 9.5 etc.
We the enthusiast gear heads knew this, but it's great you made this video to spread understanding about what these adjustments so to a club. Ping G410/425 adapter does the exact same thing but on the flip side Cobra has upright settings Ping has flat settings. These specs should be stated in every drivers spec sheet on the website of the model.
Understand the face angle changing with loft adjustment on the Cobra and similar adaptors from TM, Ping and Mizuno. But what about the 2 piece adaptors from Callaway and Titleist. My understading is the FA and Loft adjustments are independent with those 2 adaptors. Correct?
Nope, same mechanics just in a different form. Callaway allows you to do all the adjustments without rotating the shaft but the reason all these changes happen (ie shaft leaning in differing orientations) is the same. Titleist adapter is slightly different so you can lessen some of these effects, but they still exist. I would check out my other adjustable hosel videos if you want to see exactly how and why this works.
With the 2 cog adapters, face angle and loft are still coupled, so those adjustments work the same way as a single cog sleeve. The second cog is to adjust lie angle independently. Callaway has N for neutral or standard lie angle and D for draw, which is more upright. Titliest has standard lie angle, 2 upright settings, and a slightly flat setting.
9:29 So, when you sole the club, square the shaft to the target and grip it.. this is stated loft with a face angle change depending on hossle. But, if you were to square the shaft, then square the face to the target, then face angle always being 0, the loft is dependent on hossle. Is this a correct understanding? Im having a golf crises after I got a new driver and snap hooks are a problem.
when put on the ground, it does, but if hold on he air like a Matt Kuchar, it doesn’t affect, correct? As far as to me, i changed to hold in the air, then slice was immediately stopped.
Right. Hovering requires you to aim the face where you want, so a hoverer will always get the loft as advertised on the adapter assuming they aim at the target.
Very nice engineering evaluation of an adjustable hosel, I believe this is why you can't get any of this explanation from the manufacture’s websites. Just say it. For most golfers (non-pro) I believe an adjustable hosel will do nothing. Most golfer’s driver ball flight varies from shot to shot without any hosel change. It would work only if you can swing "exactly" the same every single time to see any difference in ball fight that is attributed to a hosel change. There are too many variables (wind, rain, sloping tee box, your back swing, grip pressure, ball position, head position, how your time your down swing with the release/whip of your club ...........etc.), consistency is the challenge, making that same perfect swing every single time.
The secret is using a ribless grip. To get the adjusted loft SQUARE the face WITHOUT setting the club on the ground. To get the adjusted FACE ANGLE, set the club on the ground and THEN grip it. Simple as that really.
Thank you for your videos you have inspired me to build a club building room at my house. I have watched both your videos on adjustable driver hosels. I am not sure why people would want to lay the driver on the turf to see how it either lays open or closed as we don't do that with any of our other clubs? As a result when I change my driver hosel say from the standard 9 degrees down to 7.5 I simply then square the face to the Target and assume I am at 7.5 degrees which is what I want. Last question is when you do the change from 9 to 7.5 as I described above does it change the driver heads tenfency to either close or open during the swing? I would think it might because you are changing the orientation of the back way and the front weight of the driver head in relation to the center of mass of the driver head
Not enough to make a difference. Any changes we make with drivers in general end up moving the cg within a tiny area so any difference will be pretty small. You also change the swing weight technically when you start adjusting the hosel so I suppose that very very small "feel" change could influence your swing.
I'm a qualified engineer so this stuff is naturally interesting for me. You explained it very well and thanks to mobile phone cameras we can all take a picture of the original setting as a kinda safety net. Maybe I should look at club fitting as a sideline 🤔
All draw bias means in Cobra is the lie angle has changed over 1.5 degrees because of the adapter. However, that change in lie really has very little impact on drawing the ball compared to just setting up with a slightly closed face.
Was waiting to see how the Draw or Fade setting would change the lie and loft angle. Is adding loft opens the face would using the draw setting neutralizes the lie angle?
Draw setting is purely marketing. They just take the slightly upright lie angles and call those draw even though the amount of draw you can expect from that lie angle change is close to nothing. 4 degree lie change on a 9 degree driver = .25 degree face angle change.
Great video! Is it acceptable to adjust the loft, then hover the club so the face is the same as neutral loft in order to achieve a loft change without a face angle change? Thx!
Definitely lofting up. The draw settings are simply their nod to the lie angle getting more upright. Once it passes the 1.5 degree change mark, they call it draw. Considering that 4 degrees of lie change works out to .25 degrees face angle change, the draw settings are extremely limited.
But if you then regrip and sqaure the club face back to target again the face wont be anymore closed, it will just have a higher loft, is that correct ?@EFGMC
@@ruggerboy600 Yep if you square it and regrip, it should change the loft. I just don't know how easy it would be to actually square it vs. guessing, but that works in theory.
Is there a manual or a chart that shows the changes in face angle relative to the loft changes with the LTDx? How tight does the screw go down on the hozzle to set it tight in each of the settings. Can altering the grip at address change the angle of the face but maintaining higher or lower lofts?
If you open the face angle which if I understand correctly also increases the loft with a perfect hit will that tend to push the ball flight to the right? ( for a R handed player?
The term "push" means the direction that it starts to the right(for a Right handed player)Opening the face angle will push it more to the right but it will also tend to fade or slice it to the right. A slight push baby draw is the holy grail! Which if I understand it correctly requires a slightly closed face relative to a swing path slightly to the right.
So, if the driver is lofted down to say 7.5 which opens the face at address. Does the player have to manipulate the driver back to square in order to get the desired 7.5 loft
@@EFGMC Further to that... I have the Cobra Radspeed fairway woods, which sit quite closed when in the standard position. If I lower the loft on the adapter to make it sit more square, does that lower loft only apply if I turn the club back to an equally closed position? And if I drop the 3 wood loft from 14.5* to 13* to make it sit more square, and I want to swing it with that square face angle, what loft should I expect it to have? Will it actually be higher than 14.5?
@@kanepillers8981 Usually they are pretty close so the loft change will be canceled by the face angle change. The good thing about all the adapters is they are so easy to play around with. I'd recommend just cranking it down and then go play a few rounds with it to see if the results are what you want.
Awesome video! My question is if I adjust the hosel down one notch which would open the face, could I then close the face back square in my setup? Would that cancel out the adjustment I made with the hosel?
Exactly. All loft adjustments go under the assumption that you return the face to square at impact in order to achieve the loft promised by the adapter.
Seems like golfers are being misled. Say a prayer wants to lessen his fade. He adjusts the driver to +1 to "close the face". But if he's like most players he will address the ball with the face aimed at the target, so that player hasn't "closed the face". He's just added loft so his fade will be higher and shorter (more loft, more spin, higher spin loft). If he wants a "closed face" simply turn it closed a couple degrees at address
Thanks for this great video! Makes a lot of sense. Question though, if a golfer was to adjust the loft / face angle but they were super human to hit the ball perfectly at impact with the same angle, dynamic loft, angle of attack, everything etc. the same way just with the different loft settings would they’d be any difference in ball flight? In my case I’m playing around with my fairway wood lofts thinking it’ll make my 3 wood lower flighted and longer and my 5 wood higher but shorter? I’m trying to gap them but they both carry similar and reach similar peak heights (5 wood slightly higher) but how much of that would be the loft settings vs. Natural characteristics of the club / their design?
Callaway Drivers: Aligning the hyphens together. Aside from the grip rotating and the shaft turn somewhat, does anything else change from the loft/lie/face angle if you don’t line up the hyphens? Example: If I set it to N/S on a 9* driver but don’t line up the hyphens, will still play at standard 9* of loft and standard lie angle? Just with the grip and shaft rotated a touch? It does it do something more drastic?
I don't have a Callaway driver to check on but I would just make the change and then hold the head up to your eye and see what direction the shaft is leaning. That is all any hosel adjustment does is change the direction and in some brands the amount of lean. If the shaft is leaning towards the face you get more loft, away from face you get lower loft. More towards toe or heel will change lie angle.
Must I regrip my club when I make a change. I grip with the logo on top and changing the setting turns my logo away from how i normally align my hands in reference to gripping on the logo aiming down the shaft.
Unless you are playing a Callaway, you will be rotating the shaft to make any adjustments so whatever grip alignment you use will no longer work. Options are to go with a 360 style non logo'ed grip, or reinstall the grip after you find the best hosel adjustment.
Great video. My question is this. My driver is 10.5. When I set the club on the ground, my alignment marks on the grip are perfect. When I adjust the head to minus 1.5 and align my grip marks up, the head is completely closed. Should I not use the marks on the grip and let the club lie then grip the club? I'm confused.
You can't use a grip with markings on most drivers including Cobra. Callaway and in some cases Titleist are the only brands where the grip won't rotate. Every other brand will need to rotate the entire shaft when you change settings so grip marks won't line up.
AJ, Thank you for making this informative video of tip adjustments. I have a specific question on increasing the fade bias on an OptiFit Callaway Tip. I am definitely a person who likes the face to sit open at address as I like to aggressively go after my drives and slightly close the face on the down swing. I have heard that there are ways of hacking the tip so that I might be able to have the face sit more open (such as taking a left handed tip and installing it on a shaft for a right handed player as the setting would be reversed) and was wondering if you have heard of these hacks. Thanks again for any info or hacks that you might recommend. I really enjoy your videos.
Great video and admittedly I’m making some assumptions, but after going down a rabbit hole of how adjustable hosels really work and hitting new drivers after a substantial layoff from the game your measurements of the LTDx LS head confirmed what i saw in the store AND what i think Cobra is intentionally doing. First, to my fairly trained eye the LS head sat pretty open at “std” setting when soled with no adjustments. Also, everyone seems to be getting higher ball speeds with the LS head than other comparable heads and while the more forward COG of this head will do that over a more rearward COG head you know what else will? Having LESS than stated loft as a tolerance skew. If you are manufacturing drivers where you are skewing on the lower side of loft versus what’s stated on the head, that head will tend to produce higher ball speeds. To simplify, if Cobra says it’s a 9* head and it’s really 8” and a competitor’s driver says 9* and it’s really 9* or even possibly closer to 10* the higher ball speed (assuming similar COG) will simply come from less loft and magically you produced a driver that is considered “hot.” Clever.
I like the idea behind this video, but when you took the demonstration photos - the shaft moves both laterally and angle - which is going to have quite a bit to do with face angle and loft. I'd love to see the same angle and photos with the camera clamped AND the shaft clamped to isolate the face changes. I've watched quite a few of these types of videos - and it seems like the key takeaway is that you kinda have to just play with the settings to see what works.
To clarify - I found your "Adjustable Hosel Drivers - How they change Loft, Lie, and Face Angle" video extremely informative - especially the clock face with the head locked bit. It would be interesting to see something similar with the shaft angle locked and a few angles of the club head as the loft sleeve setting is changed.
I might try and do a locked in shaft measurement. It's difficult to get everything the same when the club is resting on the ground specifically because the contact point on the sole and the lie angle changes with every adapter change thereby making it impossible to get the shaft in the exact same position every time. Might try a suspended head with a locked in shaft to show changes although this negates the impact and influence of the ground on the club.
I have a question.. hopefully you see this and respond. I have seen mixed options as far as face angle goes to fairway woods. My last 3 wood (TaylorMade Stealth+) naturally sat closed. I am a fader of the ball and absolutely hated seeing a closed face. I wanted something that sat slightly open to promote the fade. I see that the only way to truly get something like that is a tour issue head. I have seen -1 all the way to 4 degrees. I am assuming 4 degrees would be drastically open when as -1 would be slightly closed similar to my 3 wood. Hopefully I am on the right path on this and not out thinking myself. I had an extremely hard time making my last 3 wood fade consistently with the face being closed. I want a head that is open to swing normally and it will fade without manipulating the face to make it go left to right.
Get an adjustable hosel 3 wood and loft it down. That will open up the face more. Not sure what the sticker specs are on TM stuff as far as open vs closed measurements.
I'm looking at getting an LTDx and trying to decide between the 9 degree standard and 10.5 degree standard. My natural tendency is more of a fade and my ideal loft is probably somewhere in between 9 and 10.5. Based on this video, I would be better off get the 9 degree and lofting up vs the 10.5 and loft down to help encourage a draw?
Double check Cobra's website. The 10.5 may be 1 more degree upright than the 9. I know that's the case with the LS. That could change your mind knowing you're a little more upright from the start with the 10.5.
@@stevevetovich6771 The change you would see in face angle from 1 degree more upright would be so small it would be difficult to measure. Somewhere around .06 degrees more closed. Far better off with the face angle change from a loft adjustment which would be between 1 and 2 degrees.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the info. I did not know lie angle change was pretty much meaningless. There should be a database on face angles of new driver releases to help the consumer sift through the marketing propaganda. Like how Maltby has their iron playability factor. You never know, Callaway's triple diamond could have a more closed face than Titleist's TSR2. For me it's hard to tell how open or closed a face is.
I have a titleist 983k driver, it looks like it has a closed face angle compared to my other newer drivers. Do you know if this is so, it looks about 2 degrees closed. I like it and hit it good but goes left alot, I want to bend it more open.
G'day Aj, Looking to pull a shaft from a ping to go into a tsi. I believe the insertion depth is the same. The titleist adapter is 5mm longer approximately. But sits prouder on the collar of the head, what will be the playing length change?
So if you change the loft lower or higher, can you simply square up the face when you grip the club? I tend to extend my arms to see if the face is square in my grip.
So my driver has both loft and draw/fade adjustments, and I presume the later is adjusting the face by changing the lie angle. Correct? If I adjust loft Up (+1.5°) and then add fade bias, then I should have a face that is at least a little closer to square when grounded, correct? Third, if I take my grip without grounding the club, I should be able to use a square face with higher loft and take out any affect on lie angle, though I guess there is some residual affect on horizontal face angle (still a little flatter) presuming the shaft in my setup is the exact same angle to the ground. This all presumes that the manufacturer’s 0°/neutral head setup is square to start with. Do I understand correctly?.
That's exactly how the loft sleeve works. The face angle gets changed at the tip then you open or close the face back to square with your grip to change the effective loft. If you don't square the face with your grip you've just opened or closed the face without changing the loft. Ex: 10.5° head to play at 12°. The loft sleeve closes the face at the tip in the 12° setting. You have to then open the face with your grip to add the loft to make it play like 12° and bring it back to square.
I have Callaway XR 16 13.5 standard loft. The cog system will only allow 1 degree down to 12.5 I would prefer 11 degree. Someone suggested to get the left handed version of adapter tip. Take the top cog off and put it in place of the top cog that came with driver and effectively it would change the loft by 2 degrees. What would it effectively do to the loft and lie if you were to line up the bottom cog at +1 top cog at D but when you put the head of the club on you align that tick mark with the top cog at -1 and bottom cog at D It will go on and mesh. I don't have the equipment to measure loft and lie. But to my eye at address, it appears to have decreased loft with little flatter lie. Is that possible?
Not sure. When in doubt about any of these hosel changes I just hold the driver head up to my eye as squarely as possible and look at how the shaft is leaning. Any of these adapters with at least a 1.5 degree angle should be pretty easy to see where the shaft is "leaning". Shaft leaning down target line = lofting up, away from target = lofting down, leaning towards toe = more upright, leaning towards heel = more flat.
I have a relatively low swing speed (90-95) and have a 9.5* Driver. I'm pretty sure I should be playing more loft but adjusting the loft on the driver just doesn't seem to work very well for me. Can't exactly explain it but the club just seems to perform better at stated loft.
Could be your reaction to the change of face angle. The other thing you can do is try and make sure you're hitting higher on the face. That will give you higher loft.
@@EFGMC yeah I make sure I tee it up high and hit up on the ball and seem to get decent results at 9.5. The only reason I say I should be playing higher loft is because this is generally the accepted thinking for slower swing speeds, and I sometimes see pros with much higher swing speeds playing with higher loft than me. But I seem to get better distance at 9.5 so maybe that's just the best loft for my swing. Also my misses are usually low hooks so I don't like having the face too closed.
@@mistersooty Cam have you thought about the so called “D-plane” when lofting up? We know hitting Up on the ball with the driver helps launch with generally less spin. If one lofts up too then probably have to aim more to the right if you are swinging right-handed. This will allow the ball to start on a better line. Further, lofting up creates a more oblique strike on the ball which can affect “feel” or sound versus the standard 9.5*.
The Wishon 919 driver is the only driver on the market where the lie and face angle can be changed independently of each other. However, a special bending machine is required to clamp the head securely to make adjustments. I find that the lower handicap player can use face angle adjustments as effective loft changes when it comes to woods in comparison to less experienced players. This is probably due to the better golfer being more cognizant of face aim with regards to woods (and irons). Notice how the majority of tour players do not ground their drivers? Face angle is effective loft when the clubhead is square to the target.
So does the "intended" loft setting occur when you put the face back square ? The face closing with increased loft and opening with decrease loft seems counterintuitive, unless putting the face square is when that loft change occurs.
Exactly. If you don't square the face back up, you won't see the loft change, just a face angle change. If you square the face, then you get the stated loft.
@@EFGMC any idea what happens if you don't like up the line on the hosel and the line on the club head on a Callaway xr16 hosel. I want to rotate my driver shaft 90 deg because of the natural bend point.
So I have that driver and figured I needed less lift because I hit it super high at 10.5 standard loft so I took it down -1.5 so it’s at 9 now. I’ll hit hooks unless I open the face a lot in my hand and regrip it. So you’re saying all I’m doing is putting it right back to 10.5 loft and I delofted it for no reason?
If you open the face and make contact with an open face then you you have more loft on it. If the face is square to target at impact, then the loft is at 9d. The other important factor in launch height is where you are vertically making contact on the face.
@@EFGMC so when I decide to get another driver should I just go for 9 degree one instead of a 10.5 one since I loft my 10.5 all the way down to 9 ? Even with it being at 9 I still open the face more in my hand before I grip it then I set up square with the driver to the ball
So just to confirm, if I would want a 10.5 degree driver and have a bad slice. I’d be better off getting a 9 and adjusting the driver to 10.5 so there is a closed face rather then getting a 10.5 and leaving it neutral?
The lofted up adjustment will always sit more closed than the standard setting. Of course some drivers sit quite open to start with so even adjusting them up still leaves you with an open face.
Please explain in a future video.. cobra is 1 degree upright at standard loft v TM. But both when you loft down, the lie angle goes up.. so aren’t you fighting what you’re try to accomplish? I want an open face and a flatter lie.
With both Cobra and TM, any change you make to the hosel from the stated loft, will increase the lie angle, doesn't matter if you loft up or down. Lie always goes up.
Hi Paul here , I have a mavrik driver and my shots now are mostly left , I could work with a fade before but now I am lost . so your saying S or standard loft with N promotes a straight drive but add 1 % it then will go as a fade ? as it would straighten it. if I add 2% making standard loft from 9% to 11% . If I am right then my current setting of D -1 should be N -1 or S -1. like it but understanding it and seeing it are different. Great video though thankyou
Any time Callaway or Cobra says Draw setting, that just refers to the lie angle increasing over 1.5 degrees. The loft is treated as separate even though they are all connected. More loft = more face closure at address.
If we are talking left and right directions, the unadjusted loft settings will make a bigger difference. So if you loft up, and play the driver in the more closed face position it creates without realigning back to square, you will probably see a bigger difference vs slider weights.
If you play the shaft upright (ie flipped 180* at the adapter) will this effect be opposite? As in loft-ing down while on the upright side would actually close the face.
Hi AJ, I’m a new subscriber. So I own the Rogue ST Max in 10.5*. I had a green dot installed to lower the loft to 8.5*. My thinking being that if I lower the loft by 2*, it will eliminate the slight draw bias, thus opening the face. How many degrees is the face actually open & will it eliminate the draw bias? So if I need some draw bias, I would simply set the cogs to -2/D, should I need it but I’m a fader & want to keep it that way. Btw, Awesome video. Best one I’ve seen to date. Thank you.
Depends on whether you sole the club aimed at the target. If so, you'll be 8.5 degrees with a 0 degree face angle (since it's aimed at the target). If you sole it and let the face naturally open (with the sleeve at -2) the loft will be 10.5 with a ~2 degree open face. Set at -2 you can EITHER have a square face with 8.5 degrees of loft OR 10.5 degrees of loft and an open face
I have a 9.0 TM M5 set at 11 due to slicing figuring i needed to close the face more, when I went for a fitting he told me my launch was way too high so he set it back to neutral at 9.0. Funny thing is I was cutting down on the drastic slice and getting some draws with the more open face, but still inconsistent and still losing it right, I also told him at 45 3/4 it was a little too long and felt I was leaving the club behind and open. My question is would a shorter driver help me get around better even though I might possibly lose a little distance?
To hit a draw you must be closed to your path but open to your target. Does that mean you have to roll your wrist more to shut the club down during impact to hit a draw? Does that also mean that if a FW is soled two degrees open at 16 degrees that now the club has to return to the ball square or closed to hit a draw resulting in a much lower loft at impact? Who makes your club gage and where to get one? Thanks!
Anytime the club face is closed in relation to the path, you will get a draw even if your path is over the top, though the result there would be a pull draw. FW question would depend on how the company chooses to measure the head. Usually they will measure with a square face, not based on the resting sole position. Of course the only way to know for sure is to actually measure it. My spec gauge is from Golf Instruments, not sure if you can still get these anymore. There are plenty of other brands out there though with a pretty wide range of prices.
so if lowering loft changes face angle and its set in its natural setting which increases loft, is the opposite true for raising loft and placing it in natural state thus decreasing loft angle? Seems like it should
No different from any other adapter. Results will be the same, they just use the cogs so the shaft doesn't require rotating. Titleist is the only brand you could say is slightly different. All the same movements take place however you have some setting that will lessen the effects.
Will changing my lie angle (Taylormade MG3 60 degree wedge) change my loft any? Or the reverse - would changing my loft (adding 2 degrees) change my lie angle?
I have the exact same driver. I was told -1 draw setting is same as -1.5. As the slight closed face all it does is de-lofts the face another half degrees. Is that true?
Cobra just uses the draw designation when the lie angle changes more than 1.5 degrees. If you've seen my clock face example for hosels, the std starting position being 6 o'clock, the -1 would be around 4:30, the -1 D position would be around 1:30. Both of these position will make the driver want to sit more open at address. Only difference being the lie angle change.
I think the manufacturers are misleading golfers by stating loft can be adjusted when it's really face angle that is being adjusted. Effective loft is defined as inherent loft plus/minus the face angle. So a 10* driver with a 1* open face angle has an effective loft of 9* which would be the same as a 9* driver with a square face angle. Theoretically you should hit both drivers on a similar trajectory but tend to fade the 10* with 1* open face. When using adjustable hosels a low fade can be corrected by adding loft (closing the face angle) and a high draw can be corrected by decreasing loft (opening face angle).
Hi Brian spot on with your conclusion (complicated isn’t it) I think for the first time, after watching AJ’s Video I understand what the loft sleeve does 👍 Dickey UK
@@ThunderMk2 They can lessen the change in one plane vs the other (ie lie vs loft) but it still has an impact. You can not independently change just lie or loft with an adjustable hosel, does not happen. Only if you have a bonded hosel that you can bend, could you do this. Any brand can say anything they want in their marketing. Brands like Cobra and Callaway don't mention lie angle at all in their marketing but it still happens. They just choose not to focus on it.
That driver sits very open so for sure need to make a conscious effort to get that face square at set up. Might want to loft up a little if you want a little more help from the driver to get a more square set up.
True, it did have a face angle adjustment. Also the Mizuno MP 18 driver had that ability along with 1 or 2 versions before it. Now no one does it because it uses too much weight.
This is valuable info; however, I don’t set the driver on the ground and accept the face angle as it lies. I square the face angle or change the face angle to what I want depending of draw or fade desired.
Someone said if you loft down it opens the face angle. So I'm considering a ping g410 , 11degree, move it to flat lie, this should then be 10degree with a 1degree open face angle. If so that would be perfect for me. Hopefully the stock shaft is correct weight& flex.
At 7:50 you explain how adjusting the LOFT give your that loft ONLY if you aim the face square to the target (as most players would). If you "let it fall open/closed" when you sole it you get the stated, loft of the driver - 9 degrees in that driver's case. So it's incorrect to say "lowering the loft opens the face." Adjusting a 9 degree driver to 7.5 gives you 7.5 degrees of loft if ADDRESSED SQUARE TO THE TARGET. You show this in the video you refer to a 11:00. Seems like people are still thinking "if I lower the loft it will open the face" so they think they're hitting a low-lofted, open-faced driver. They're not. They can EITHER have it lower lofted OR open faced, depending on how they sole it.
Hi, for me not so many angels are to know! I have 3 loft to test on my Callaway XR, if some of them give me better result Ok I just play that in coming days. So fare 12 degr been best for my slow swing. But to that I play diffr shaft lengts since long time 17 inch to regular shaft given what I wants. Thanks for tips! Johnny D Bergh
I'm old school,,,,also this is backwards to me,which means I'm more confused.......ok one question..I usually play a driver at 9.5 standard Titleist but it seems like it's to open should I get a 8 degree and move it to 9 to close the face a little
Finally someone explains this so we all understand the concept of closed or open face when adjusting loft,thank you so much ! That deserves a subscription !
THANK GOODNESS for the video. No manufacturer speaks to this. All golfers I know changes loft without manipulating the face back to square and believe loft has been altered only to create direction issues with no loft change. Thanks.
Ok, if I understand correctly, you can simply rotate the club to change both the lie and loft, or you can do it with the hosel. The advantage of doing it with the hosel is that you end up with a club that sits naturally in the desired position, and you can consistently reproduce that position.
Great explanation! I tend to pull hook, so I took a 12 degree and de-lofted to 10.5 to open the face and ended up shooting darts.
So in theory, if you slice the ball purchase a 9 degree and increase the loft to 10.5 degrees to close the face.
You shot darts with a driver?
@@randolphtolbert3825 yes, 8/10 times I’m in range of my target zone. Now the irons is a different story.
@@randolphtolbert3825 🤣
This is one of the most effective and clear explanations of the function of adjustable drivers that I've ever come across. It has helped me understand my own Ping Anser driver even better than before. The Anser tends to 'fall,' when the sole is allowed to rest on the turf, slightly open. Maybe a degree give or take, to my eye. So even the neutral setting is just a little open. In general, though I tend to prefer to cut the ball off the tee, I find it difficult to draw the ball from this position when I need/want to, unless I really work to shut the face during the swing, which can too often lead to pull hooks. Or I have to align my body so far right at address it feels ridiculous. Instead, I now understand that I can actually just aim my body and the club face right of my intended target and pre-set the face 'closed' a degree or two, take my grip and make the same swing I normally would to produce a draw. Great content!
Too funny! I had the same setup with that club and then the Aerojet ls. Taking a 9 degree and lofting to 10.5 made it a fairway finding baby cut machine with roll out. Great club!
Thanks for clearing this up.explains why I tend to pull hook my 10.5 driver at 12 degree. Always felt like the face was to closed lofting up. Thank you
I was looking for more info on the weights, thanks for the vid
This is a fantastic video. So if I play my 9 degree driver at 4* open I am really playing almost a 10* driver even if I deloft it to 7.5*. This is the best explanation I have seen that I have tried to convey to friends.
If you square it up at impact, your loft is 7.5. This is why all clubs are measured with the face rotated to a 0* "square" face. Of course, if you leave the face open at impact there will be more dynamic loft (all else equal), for any club
A nice summary would be: 1) Driver adapter changes face angle if you let driver sit as it wants. 2) Driver adapter changes loft if you square the face to the target.
This is an awesome video for understanding what is going on with adjustable drivers!
This is a reason I still play with my 2009 Cobra S9-1M offset driver. Just love the way it looks and preforms for me. I tinker with my golf clubs enough without a an adjustable hosel.
*Decreasing* the loft opens the face and will fade the shot a bit.
*Increasing* the loft closes the face and will draw the shot a bit.
You can also shift or adjust weight by using lead tape to influence shot shape. Toe side for fade, heel side for draw.
On some drivers you can adjust the lie angle as well. This can counteract the fade/draw bias. To reduce fade, adjust the lie angle up.
If your shots fall out of the sky or hook/slice violently, you need more back spin: increase loft. It becomes a balancing act of distance (less spin with less loft) and accuracy (more spin, increased loft)
NOTE: if you have an outside in swing path (negative attack angle) you will want more loft. If you have an inside out swing path (positive attack angle) you will want less loft.
'NOTE: if you have an outside in swing path (negative attack angle) you will want more loft.' Every day is a school day, thanks for that. 👍
Fantastic explanation! Thanks AJ for explaining how hosel settings affect the club head!
Couple year old video that answers a question I've had with a driver I'm working with. I'm playing with a PXG 0811 Proto Plus driver and feel like I need to hold it slightly open at address to get my desired ball flight. With my Taylor Made Sim 2 Max I get the ball flight I want with a neutral feeling at address. The PXG is 10.5 loft and Taylor made is 9 degree. I'll try the PXG at a lower loft setting to see if it gives me both the ball fight and the feeling at address that I prefer. Thanks for this info. I've been thinking of the loft adjustment as only that.
I play a G410 in the flat lie setting. Generally I don’t want the ball to go left and play a Small fade where possible. As Trevino said “you can talk to a fade; a hook won’t listen”!
Thank you! I go get fitted soon and this will help take some of the mystery out of it
Ok so my mind is blown...its contradictory to everything we have learned...increase the loft always equals more open face angle. This is crazy.
Thanks AJ. So if you’re hitting a fade you could theoretically fix that by changing the loft. Good stuff my man!
Yep. Loft up a bit and see what happens.
Was just playing around with my old r9 settings last night. It has taylormade’s FCT hosel, and the charts for it only highlight face angle and shot shape. But the newer hosels label it as higher/lower, rather than left/right, even though it is essentially the same sleeve.
Exact same idea, just how the marketing people decide to go with it. Focusing on loft adjustments also means OEMs can make fewer different lofted drivers instead of 7.5, 8.5, 9.5 etc.
Great video. Well done brother
We the enthusiast gear heads knew this, but it's great you made this video to spread understanding about what these adjustments so to a club. Ping G410/425 adapter does the exact same thing but on the flip side Cobra has upright settings Ping has flat settings.
These specs should be stated in every drivers spec sheet on the website of the model.
This comment is really cringey.
Who's on first lol I get it great content AJ appreciate it!!!!
Understand the face angle changing with loft adjustment on the Cobra and similar adaptors from TM, Ping and Mizuno. But what about the 2 piece adaptors from Callaway and Titleist. My understading is the FA and Loft adjustments are independent with those 2 adaptors. Correct?
Nope, same mechanics just in a different form. Callaway allows you to do all the adjustments without rotating the shaft but the reason all these changes happen (ie shaft leaning in differing orientations) is the same. Titleist adapter is slightly different so you can lessen some of these effects, but they still exist.
I would check out my other adjustable hosel videos if you want to see exactly how and why this works.
With the 2 cog adapters, face angle and loft are still coupled, so those adjustments work the same way as a single cog sleeve.
The second cog is to adjust lie angle independently. Callaway has N for neutral or standard lie angle and D for draw, which is more upright. Titliest has standard lie angle, 2 upright settings, and a slightly flat setting.
9:29 So, when you sole the club, square the shaft to the target and grip it.. this is stated loft with a face angle change depending on hossle.
But, if you were to square the shaft, then square the face to the target, then face angle always being 0, the loft is dependent on hossle.
Is this a correct understanding? Im having a golf crises after I got a new driver and snap hooks are a problem.
For the loft on the hosel to be correct, it requires that the face is square to the target.
when put on the ground, it does, but if hold on he air like a Matt Kuchar, it doesn’t affect, correct? As far as to me, i changed to hold in the air, then slice was immediately stopped.
Right. Hovering requires you to aim the face where you want, so a hoverer will always get the loft as advertised on the adapter assuming they aim at the target.
Very nice engineering evaluation of an adjustable hosel, I believe this is why you can't get any of this explanation from the manufacture’s websites. Just say it. For most golfers (non-pro) I believe an adjustable hosel will do nothing. Most golfer’s driver ball flight varies from shot to shot without any hosel change. It would work only if you can swing "exactly" the same every single time to see any difference in ball fight that is attributed to a hosel change. There are too many variables (wind, rain, sloping tee box, your back swing, grip pressure, ball position, head position, how your time your down swing with the release/whip of your club ...........etc.), consistency is the challenge, making that same perfect swing every single time.
The secret is using a ribless grip. To get the adjusted loft SQUARE the face WITHOUT setting the club on the ground. To get the adjusted FACE ANGLE, set the club on the ground and THEN grip it. Simple as that really.
What was the lost sleeve at when it was at 1:48? It’s perfect
Believe that was at 1 degree up loft.
Thank you for your videos you have inspired me to build a club building room at my house. I have watched both your videos on adjustable driver hosels.
I am not sure why people would want to lay the driver on the turf to see how it either lays open or closed as we don't do that with any of our other clubs?
As a result when I change my driver hosel say from the standard 9 degrees down to 7.5 I simply then square the face to the Target and assume I am at 7.5 degrees which is what I want.
Last question is when you do the change from 9 to 7.5 as I described above does it change the driver heads tenfency to either close or open during the swing? I would think it might because you are changing the orientation of the back way and the front weight of the driver head in relation to the center of mass of the driver head
Not enough to make a difference. Any changes we make with drivers in general end up moving the cg within a tiny area so any difference will be pretty small. You also change the swing weight technically when you start adjusting the hosel so I suppose that very very small "feel" change could influence your swing.
I'm a qualified engineer so this stuff is naturally interesting for me. You explained it very well and thanks to mobile phone cameras we can all take a picture of the original setting as a kinda safety net. Maybe I should look at club fitting as a sideline 🤔
I have the cobra radspeed. What happens when a adjust the driver to the draw bias setting
All draw bias means in Cobra is the lie angle has changed over 1.5 degrees because of the adapter. However, that change in lie really has very little impact on drawing the ball compared to just setting up with a slightly closed face.
I see. Thank you for the reply
Was waiting to see how the Draw or Fade setting would change the lie and loft angle. Is adding loft opens the face would using the draw setting neutralizes the lie angle?
Draw setting is purely marketing. They just take the slightly upright lie angles and call those draw even though the amount of draw you can expect from that lie angle change is close to nothing. 4 degree lie change on a 9 degree driver = .25 degree face angle change.
Nice and educational video 👍
Great video! Is it acceptable to adjust the loft, then hover the club so the face is the same as neutral loft in order to achieve a loft change without a face angle change? Thx!
Yes, if you hover the head then the club's sole doesn't interact with the ground (which causes the face angle changes). You got it.
Or sole the club with the face aimed at the target rather than slightly open or closed
What do you think has more of a slice correction effect for Cobra drivers? Lofting up (closing face) or the draw (upright) setting?
Definitely lofting up. The draw settings are simply their nod to the lie angle getting more upright. Once it passes the 1.5 degree change mark, they call it draw. Considering that 4 degrees of lie change works out to .25 degrees face angle change, the draw settings are extremely limited.
But if you then regrip and sqaure the club face back to target again the face wont be anymore closed, it will just have a higher loft, is that correct ?@EFGMC
@@ruggerboy600 Yep if you square it and regrip, it should change the loft. I just don't know how easy it would be to actually square it vs. guessing, but that works in theory.
So If I got this right, I would need to add loft to get a draw bias, and set (sims driver) the shaft more upright to get the draw bias also?
Correct on both. More loft and more upright lie will provide the greatest draw bias available for any given head.
@@EFGMC Now I'm getting it???? I hope. Thanks,
Is there a manual or a chart that shows the changes in face angle relative to the loft changes with the LTDx?
How tight does the screw go down on the hozzle to set it tight in each of the settings.
Can altering the grip at address change the angle of the face but maintaining higher or lower lofts?
If you open the face angle which if I understand correctly also increases the loft with a perfect hit will that tend to push the ball flight to the right? ( for a R handed player?
Correct. Launch direction is mainly influenced by face angle (80%). 20% comes from swing path.
The term "push" means the direction that it starts to the right(for a Right handed player)Opening the face angle will push it more to the right but it will also tend to fade or slice it to the right.
A slight push baby draw is the holy grail! Which if I understand it correctly requires a slightly closed face relative to a swing path slightly to the right.
Would be very interested in you doing this for the dual cog adapters, especially the Titleist.
So if I want my driver to play open at 9 degrees, I should buy a 10.5 degree driver and loft it down fully?
Right. The most open option will be the lowest lofted setting.
Is the shaft kicking point different during this ??
So, if the driver is lofted down to say 7.5 which opens the face at address. Does the player have to manipulate the driver back to square in order to get the desired 7.5 loft
Correct. You need a square face to get the measured loft on the head.
@@EFGMC Further to that... I have the Cobra Radspeed fairway woods, which sit quite closed when in the standard position. If I lower the loft on the adapter to make it sit more square, does that lower loft only apply if I turn the club back to an equally closed position? And if I drop the 3 wood loft from 14.5* to 13* to make it sit more square, and I want to swing it with that square face angle, what loft should I expect it to have? Will it actually be higher than 14.5?
@@kanepillers8981 Usually they are pretty close so the loft change will be canceled by the face angle change. The good thing about all the adapters is they are so easy to play around with. I'd recommend just cranking it down and then go play a few rounds with it to see if the results are what you want.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the reply. I'll go mess around with it on a simulator then try it on the course.
Awesome video! My question is if I adjust the hosel down one notch which would open the face, could I then close the face back square in my setup? Would that cancel out the adjustment I made with the hosel?
Exactly. All loft adjustments go under the assumption that you return the face to square at impact in order to achieve the loft promised by the adapter.
Seems like golfers are being misled. Say a prayer wants to lessen his fade. He adjusts the driver to +1 to "close the face". But if he's like most players he will address the ball with the face aimed at the target, so that player hasn't "closed the face". He's just added loft so his fade will be higher and shorter (more loft, more spin, higher spin loft). If he wants a "closed face" simply turn it closed a couple degrees at address
Pls compare 2 ltx heads with diff standard lofts and see if they have the same face angles when adjust +/- X degrees. Think ill understand it more 😅
Thanks for this great video! Makes a lot of sense. Question though, if a golfer was to adjust the loft / face angle but they were super human to hit the ball perfectly at impact with the same angle, dynamic loft, angle of attack, everything etc. the same way just with the different loft settings would they’d be any difference in ball flight?
In my case I’m playing around with my fairway wood lofts thinking it’ll make my 3 wood lower flighted and longer and my 5 wood higher but shorter? I’m trying to gap them but they both carry similar and reach similar peak heights (5 wood slightly higher) but how much of that would be the loft settings vs. Natural characteristics of the club / their design?
Hard to know. Other element is the strike location on the face as that can influence launch height and change distances.
Callaway Drivers: Aligning the hyphens together. Aside from the grip rotating and the shaft turn somewhat, does anything else change from the loft/lie/face angle if you don’t line up the hyphens? Example: If I set it to N/S on a 9* driver but don’t line up the hyphens, will still play at standard 9* of loft and standard lie angle? Just with the grip and shaft rotated a touch? It does it do something more drastic?
I don't have a Callaway driver to check on but I would just make the change and then hold the head up to your eye and see what direction the shaft is leaning. That is all any hosel adjustment does is change the direction and in some brands the amount of lean. If the shaft is leaning towards the face you get more loft, away from face you get lower loft. More towards toe or heel will change lie angle.
Must I regrip my club when I make a change. I grip with the logo on top and changing the setting turns my logo away from how i normally align my hands in reference to gripping on the logo aiming down the shaft.
Unless you are playing a Callaway, you will be rotating the shaft to make any adjustments so whatever grip alignment you use will no longer work. Options are to go with a 360 style non logo'ed grip, or reinstall the grip after you find the best hosel adjustment.
Great video. My question is this. My driver is 10.5. When I set the club on the ground, my alignment marks on the grip are perfect. When I adjust the head to minus 1.5 and align my grip marks up, the head is completely closed. Should I not use the marks on the grip and let the club lie then grip the club? I'm confused.
You can't use a grip with markings on most drivers including Cobra. Callaway and in some cases Titleist are the only brands where the grip won't rotate. Every other brand will need to rotate the entire shaft when you change settings so grip marks won't line up.
@@EFGMC Thanks, now it makes sense.
AJ, Thank you for making this informative video of tip adjustments. I have a specific question on increasing the fade bias on an OptiFit Callaway Tip. I am definitely a person who likes the face to sit open at address as I like to aggressively go after my drives and slightly close the face on the down swing. I have heard that there are ways of hacking the tip so that I might be able to have the face sit more open (such as taking a left handed tip and installing it on a shaft for a right handed player as the setting would be reversed) and was wondering if you have heard of these hacks. Thanks again for any info or hacks that you might recommend. I really enjoy your videos.
Yes I've heard of people doing that. They also make a tour version adapter (green dot??) that might be worth looking into.
@@EFGMC Thank you for the response. I have heard of the special tip for a flatter lie, but not this one. Thanks again
Great video and admittedly I’m making some assumptions, but after going down a rabbit hole of how adjustable hosels really work and hitting new drivers after a substantial layoff from the game your measurements of the LTDx LS head confirmed what i saw in the store AND what i think Cobra is intentionally doing. First, to my fairly trained eye the LS head sat pretty open at “std” setting when soled with no adjustments. Also, everyone seems to be getting higher ball speeds with the LS head than other comparable heads and while the more forward COG of this head will do that over a more rearward COG head you know what else will? Having LESS than stated loft as a tolerance skew. If you are manufacturing drivers where you are skewing on the lower side of loft versus what’s stated on the head, that head will tend to produce higher ball speeds. To simplify, if Cobra says it’s a 9* head and it’s really 8” and a competitor’s driver says 9* and it’s really 9* or even possibly closer to 10* the higher ball speed (assuming similar COG) will simply come from less loft and magically you produced a driver that is considered “hot.” Clever.
Lower loft doesn’t automatically translate to higher ball speed
@@nateprice999 assuming similar club delivery yes, it does.
I like the idea behind this video, but when you took the demonstration photos - the shaft moves both laterally and angle - which is going to have quite a bit to do with face angle and loft. I'd love to see the same angle and photos with the camera clamped AND the shaft clamped to isolate the face changes. I've watched quite a few of these types of videos - and it seems like the key takeaway is that you kinda have to just play with the settings to see what works.
To clarify - I found your "Adjustable Hosel Drivers - How they change Loft, Lie, and Face Angle" video extremely informative - especially the clock face with the head locked bit. It would be interesting to see something similar with the shaft angle locked and a few angles of the club head as the loft sleeve setting is changed.
I might try and do a locked in shaft measurement. It's difficult to get everything the same when the club is resting on the ground specifically because the contact point on the sole and the lie angle changes with every adapter change thereby making it impossible to get the shaft in the exact same position every time.
Might try a suspended head with a locked in shaft to show changes although this negates the impact and influence of the ground on the club.
@@EFGMC you do great work and I know it's not easy. :D
I have a question.. hopefully you see this and respond. I have seen mixed options as far as face angle goes to fairway woods. My last 3 wood (TaylorMade Stealth+) naturally sat closed. I am a fader of the ball and absolutely hated seeing a closed face. I wanted something that sat slightly open to promote the fade. I see that the only way to truly get something like that is a tour issue head. I have seen -1 all the way to 4 degrees. I am assuming 4 degrees would be drastically open when as -1 would be slightly closed similar to my 3 wood. Hopefully I am on the right path on this and not out thinking myself. I had an extremely hard time making my last 3 wood fade consistently with the face being closed. I want a head that is open to swing normally and it will fade without manipulating the face to make it go left to right.
Get an adjustable hosel 3 wood and loft it down. That will open up the face more. Not sure what the sticker specs are on TM stuff as far as open vs closed measurements.
I got a question. Are the golf pride pro only putter grips similar to the pesky hard to find ping putter grips ?
You mean the Tiger style Ping grips (Ping man)?
@@EFGMC yes the ping man
@@TheSlow78 The Pro Only are thicker than the Ping, even the smallest version. Only the Scotty Cameron older version comes close to it in size.
I'm looking at getting an LTDx and trying to decide between the 9 degree standard and 10.5 degree standard. My natural tendency is more of a fade and my ideal loft is probably somewhere in between 9 and 10.5. Based on this video, I would be better off get the 9 degree and lofting up vs the 10.5 and loft down to help encourage a draw?
Correct. Will get more face closure lofting up the 9.
Double check Cobra's website. The 10.5 may be 1 more degree upright than the 9. I know that's the case with the LS. That could change your mind knowing you're a little more upright from the start with the 10.5.
@@stevevetovich6771 The change you would see in face angle from 1 degree more upright would be so small it would be difficult to measure. Somewhere around .06 degrees more closed. Far better off with the face angle change from a loft adjustment which would be between 1 and 2 degrees.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the info. I did not know lie angle change was pretty much meaningless. There should be a database on face angles of new driver releases to help the consumer sift through the marketing propaganda. Like how Maltby has their iron playability factor. You never know, Callaway's triple diamond could have a more closed face than Titleist's TSR2. For me it's hard to tell how open or closed a face is.
@@stevevetovich6771 Agree. It's hard to know unless you can actually sit it down in front of you.
I have a titleist 983k driver, it looks like it has a closed face angle compared to my other newer drivers. Do you know if this is so, it looks about 2 degrees closed. I like it and hit it good but goes left alot, I want to bend it more open.
G'day Aj,
Looking to pull a shaft from a ping to go into a tsi. I believe the insertion depth is the same. The titleist adapter is 5mm longer approximately. But sits prouder on the collar of the head, what will be the playing length change?
Sorry, I don't keep BBTG (bottom bore to ground) measurements handy. I would Google that term with your particular models and see what comes up.
So if you change the loft lower or higher, can you simply square up the face when you grip the club? I tend to extend my arms to see if the face is square in my grip.
Yes. Squaring the face just changes the loft to match with the adapter loft.
So my driver has both loft and draw/fade adjustments, and I presume the later is adjusting the face by changing the lie angle. Correct? If I adjust loft Up (+1.5°) and then add fade bias, then I should have a face that is at least a little closer to square when grounded, correct? Third, if I take my grip without grounding the club, I should be able to use a square face with higher loft and take out any affect on lie angle, though I guess there is some residual affect on horizontal face angle (still a little flatter) presuming the shaft in my setup is the exact same angle to the ground. This all presumes that the manufacturer’s 0°/neutral head setup is square to start with. Do I understand correctly?.
Would you please give us the low down on how loft and lie affect fairway woods?
Can I use with my RBZ stage 2 driver? Thank you.
Yes. The starting angles may be different but how it reacts to the hosel changes are the same.
@@EFGMC Thank you very much I'll try to adjust it. Because since I have tried to try to hit it straight until the swing is gone. lol
If I want to add loft to an iron I would open the face, can you do a video as to why this isn't the case with loft sleeves on Woods please
You can bend an iron to increase the loft by itself. Different animal from the adjustable hosel clubs.
That's exactly how the loft sleeve works. The face angle gets changed at the tip then you open or close the face back to square with your grip to change the effective loft. If you don't square the face with your grip you've just opened or closed the face without changing the loft.
Ex: 10.5° head to play at 12°. The loft sleeve closes the face at the tip in the 12° setting. You have to then open the face with your grip to add the loft to make it play like 12° and bring it back to square.
I have Callaway XR 16 13.5 standard loft. The cog system will only allow 1 degree down to 12.5 I would prefer 11 degree. Someone suggested to get the left handed version of adapter tip. Take the top cog off and put it in place of the top cog that came with driver and effectively it would change the loft by 2 degrees. What would it effectively do to the loft and lie if you were to line up the bottom cog at +1 top cog at D but when you put the head of the club on you align that tick mark with the top cog at -1 and bottom cog at D It will go on and mesh. I don't have the equipment to measure loft and lie. But to my eye at address, it appears to have decreased loft with little flatter lie. Is that possible?
Not sure. When in doubt about any of these hosel changes I just hold the driver head up to my eye as squarely as possible and look at how the shaft is leaning. Any of these adapters with at least a 1.5 degree angle should be pretty easy to see where the shaft is "leaning". Shaft leaning down target line = lofting up, away from target = lofting down, leaning towards toe = more upright, leaning towards heel = more flat.
I have a relatively low swing speed (90-95) and have a 9.5* Driver. I'm pretty sure I should be playing more loft but adjusting the loft on the driver just doesn't seem to work very well for me. Can't exactly explain it but the club just seems to perform better at stated loft.
Could be your reaction to the change of face angle. The other thing you can do is try and make sure you're hitting higher on the face. That will give you higher loft.
@@EFGMC yeah I make sure I tee it up high and hit up on the ball and seem to get decent results at 9.5. The only reason I say I should be playing higher loft is because this is generally the accepted thinking for slower swing speeds, and I sometimes see pros with much higher swing speeds playing with higher loft than me. But I seem to get better distance at 9.5 so maybe that's just the best loft for my swing. Also my misses are usually low hooks so I don't like having the face too closed.
@@mistersooty Cam have you thought about the so called “D-plane” when lofting up? We know hitting Up on the ball with the driver helps launch with generally less spin. If one lofts up too then probably have to aim more to the right if you are swinging right-handed. This will allow the ball to start on a better line. Further, lofting up creates a more oblique strike on the ball which can affect “feel” or sound versus the standard 9.5*.
The Wishon 919 driver is the only driver on the market where the lie and face angle can be changed independently of each other. However, a special bending machine is required to clamp the head securely to make adjustments.
I find that the lower handicap player can use face angle adjustments as effective loft changes when it comes to woods in comparison to less experienced players. This is probably due to the better golfer being more cognizant of face aim with regards to woods (and irons).
Notice how the majority of tour players do not ground their drivers? Face angle is effective loft when the clubhead is square to the target.
I have a Wishon 919 driver. A really nice driver.
@Nocke Winkfield true, since they use those rings in the tip. However, the range of variability is limited and so are the combinations.
So does the "intended" loft setting occur when you put the face back square ? The face closing with increased loft and opening with decrease loft seems counterintuitive, unless putting the face square is when that loft change occurs.
Exactly. If you don't square the face back up, you won't see the loft change, just a face angle change. If you square the face, then you get the stated loft.
@@EFGMC any idea what happens if you don't like up the line on the hosel and the line on the club head on a Callaway xr16 hosel. I want to rotate my driver shaft 90 deg because of the natural bend point.
@@JAW_73 The stated adjustments will be different.
@@EFGMC will it be the setting that shows to the line on the club head ? Or is the top of the shaft adapter not level and also adds to the adjustment?
@@JAW_73 Confused as to what you're referencing.
So I have that driver and figured I needed less lift because I hit it super high at 10.5 standard loft so I took it down -1.5 so it’s at 9 now. I’ll hit hooks unless I open the face a lot in my hand and regrip it. So you’re saying all I’m doing is putting it right back to 10.5 loft and I delofted it for no reason?
If you open the face and make contact with an open face then you you have more loft on it. If the face is square to target at impact, then the loft is at 9d. The other important factor in launch height is where you are vertically making contact on the face.
@@EFGMC so when I decide to get another driver should I just go for 9 degree one instead of a 10.5 one since I loft my 10.5 all the way down to 9 ? Even with it being at 9 I still open the face more in my hand before I grip it then I set up square with the driver to the ball
@@kyleamick4559 I'd start it at 9 so you can move it down even more need be.
@@EFGMC thanks for the help! Much appreciated!
So just to confirm, if I would want a 10.5 degree driver and have a bad slice. I’d be better off getting a 9 and adjusting the driver to 10.5 so there is a closed face rather then getting a 10.5 and leaving it neutral?
The lofted up adjustment will always sit more closed than the standard setting. Of course some drivers sit quite open to start with so even adjusting them up still leaves you with an open face.
Please explain in a future video.. cobra is 1 degree upright at standard loft v TM. But both when you loft down, the lie angle goes up.. so aren’t you fighting what you’re try to accomplish? I want an open face and a flatter lie.
With both Cobra and TM, any change you make to the hosel from the stated loft, will increase the lie angle, doesn't matter if you loft up or down. Lie always goes up.
Hi Paul here , I have a mavrik driver and my shots now are mostly left , I could work with a fade before but now I am lost . so your saying S or standard loft with N promotes a straight drive but add 1 % it then will go as a fade ? as it would straighten it. if I add 2% making standard loft from 9% to 11% . If I am right then my current setting of D -1 should be N -1 or S -1. like it but understanding it and seeing it are different. Great video though thankyou
Any time Callaway or Cobra says Draw setting, that just refers to the lie angle increasing over 1.5 degrees.
The loft is treated as separate even though they are all connected. More loft = more face closure at address.
What makes a bigger difference to the ball flight changing the loft settings up or down or adjusting a sliding weight to a draw or fade setting?
If we are talking left and right directions, the unadjusted loft settings will make a bigger difference. So if you loft up, and play the driver in the more closed face position it creates without realigning back to square, you will probably see a bigger difference vs slider weights.
Is it the same for lefty? Or reverse. Lower loft= closed and higher loft =open?
Same rules assuming you are using a LH adapter.
I’m 5’3”
Have Big Bertha older adjustable hybrids. Can’t seem to get them correct
What can I do to get them right
What's the miss? Hook, slice, toe, heel?
After adjust, what happen to grip center mark? Should i re grip?
If the grip has alignment marks on it then you might want to or switch to a 360 style grip without marks.
Cobra drivers have a setting standard/draw. (STD Draw) What does that setting for? Keeps the loft but closes the face?
STD Draw is just the upright lie angle setting with standard loft.
I have preferred the Callaway opti fit. The shaft keeps the same position regardless of setting.
what does the o mean on my cobra driver what positions do all the letters stand for is o for open ?
Never seen an O. They do use a D to designate what they consider the draw settings.
So then, should I still aim at my target, or slightly right or left of my target line?
I think you should always aim the face at your target line since the majority of ball flight direction is based on face direction.
If you play the shaft upright (ie flipped 180* at the adapter) will this effect be opposite? As in loft-ing down while on the upright side would actually close the face.
Hi AJ, I’m a new subscriber.
So I own the Rogue ST Max in 10.5*. I had a green dot installed to lower the loft to 8.5*. My thinking being that if I lower the loft by 2*, it will eliminate the slight draw bias, thus opening the face. How many degrees is the face actually open & will it eliminate the draw bias? So if I need some draw bias, I would simply set the cogs to -2/D, should I need it but I’m a fader & want to keep it that way.
Btw, Awesome video. Best one I’ve seen to date. Thank you.
Depends on whether you sole the club aimed at the target. If so, you'll be 8.5 degrees with a 0 degree face angle (since it's aimed at the target). If you sole it and let the face naturally open (with the sleeve at -2) the loft will be 10.5 with a ~2 degree open face. Set at -2 you can EITHER have a square face with 8.5 degrees of loft OR 10.5 degrees of loft and an open face
I have a 9.0 TM M5 set at 11 due to slicing figuring i needed to close the face more, when I went for a fitting he told me my launch was way too high so he set it back to neutral at 9.0. Funny thing is I was cutting down on the drastic slice and getting some draws with the more open face, but still inconsistent and still losing it right, I also told him at 45 3/4 it was a little too long and felt I was leaving the club behind and open. My question is would a shorter driver help me get around better even though I might possibly lose a little distance?
Try a mini driver. A lofted down Mizuno or Cobra 3 wood.
To hit a draw you must be closed to your path but open to your target. Does that mean you have to roll your wrist more to shut the club down during impact to hit a draw? Does that also mean that if a FW is soled two degrees open at 16 degrees that now the club has to return to the ball square or closed to hit a draw resulting in a much lower loft at impact? Who makes your club gage and where to get one? Thanks!
Anytime the club face is closed in relation to the path, you will get a draw even if your path is over the top, though the result there would be a pull draw.
FW question would depend on how the company chooses to measure the head. Usually they will measure with a square face, not based on the resting sole position. Of course the only way to know for sure is to actually measure it.
My spec gauge is from Golf Instruments, not sure if you can still get these anymore. There are plenty of other brands out there though with a pretty wide range of prices.
so if lowering loft changes face angle and its set in its natural setting which increases loft, is the opposite true for raising loft and placing it in natural state thus decreasing loft angle? Seems like it should
Correct. If it just sits in it's resting position.
Pretty sure the Callaway adapter keeps the head neutral?
No different from any other adapter. Results will be the same, they just use the cogs so the shaft doesn't require rotating. Titleist is the only brand you could say is slightly different. All the same movements take place however you have some setting that will lessen the effects.
Will changing my lie angle (Taylormade MG3 60 degree wedge) change my loft any? Or the reverse - would changing my loft (adding 2 degrees) change my lie angle?
Loft and lie are completely independent with irons and wedges. Only time they are linked is with adjustable hosel woods and hybrids.
Awesome video thanks
I have the exact same driver. I was told -1 draw setting is same as -1.5. As the slight closed face all it does is de-lofts the face another half degrees. Is that true?
Cobra just uses the draw designation when the lie angle changes more than 1.5 degrees. If you've seen my clock face example for hosels, the std starting position being 6 o'clock, the -1 would be around 4:30, the -1 D position would be around 1:30. Both of these position will make the driver want to sit more open at address. Only difference being the lie angle change.
@@EFGMC so between -1, -1D, -1.5 which actually has a lower angle of launch on the LTDx? All these only changes lie angle?
@@Eqnotalent -1.5 is the lowest. The other two are the exact same loft, but the -1D setting is 1 degree more upright than the -1
I think the manufacturers are misleading golfers by stating loft can be adjusted when it's really face angle that is being adjusted. Effective loft is defined as inherent loft plus/minus the face angle. So a 10* driver with a 1* open face angle has an effective loft of 9* which would be the same as a 9* driver with a square face angle. Theoretically you should hit both drivers on a similar trajectory but tend to fade the 10* with 1* open face. When using adjustable hosels a low fade can be corrected by adding loft (closing the face angle) and a high draw can be corrected by decreasing loft (opening face angle).
Hi Brian spot on with your conclusion (complicated isn’t it) I think for the first time, after watching AJ’s Video I understand what the loft sleeve does 👍 Dickey UK
What about the Titleist surefit hossel that does loft independently from lie?
Nope still connected. Titleist just does a sort of double wheel set up kind of like the Disney Tea Cups ride. Small wheel on outside of larger wheel.
@@EFGMC Why then are Titleist stating that they can adjust the loft and lie independently with there setup with that two cog system?
@@ThunderMk2 They can lessen the change in one plane vs the other (ie lie vs loft) but it still has an impact. You can not independently change just lie or loft with an adjustable hosel, does not happen. Only if you have a bonded hosel that you can bend, could you do this.
Any brand can say anything they want in their marketing. Brands like Cobra and Callaway don't mention lie angle at all in their marketing but it still happens. They just choose not to focus on it.
I play with LTDx LS 9deg.. the distance is awesome.. but, fading is an issue sometimes.. want to know correct position of club face to ball
That driver sits very open so for sure need to make a conscious effort to get that face square at set up. Might want to loft up a little if you want a little more help from the driver to get a more square set up.
Think the 2013 TM R1 could change loft and face angle with the bottom compass
True, it did have a face angle adjustment. Also the Mizuno MP 18 driver had that ability along with 1 or 2 versions before it. Now no one does it because it uses too much weight.
I have that exact same driver cranked down to 7.5 degrees. So you’re saying that opens the face?
Correct.
My Ping G430 max driver feels so closed when I set it down that I actually have to "open" it a little.
This is valuable info; however, I don’t set the driver on the ground and accept the face angle as it lies. I square the face angle or change the face angle to what I want depending of draw or fade desired.
Someone said if you loft down it opens the face angle. So I'm considering a ping g410 , 11degree, move it to flat lie, this should then be 10degree with a 1degree open face angle. If so that would be perfect for me. Hopefully the stock shaft is correct weight& flex.
What happens to the face when you put it on its minus 1 degree but in the draw setting
Draw settings are just the more upright lie angles. The minus 1 will open the face slightly when resting on the ground.
At 7:50 you explain how adjusting the LOFT give your that loft ONLY if you aim the face square to the target (as most players would). If you "let it fall open/closed" when you sole it you get the stated, loft of the driver - 9 degrees in that driver's case. So it's incorrect to say "lowering the loft opens the face." Adjusting a 9 degree driver to 7.5 gives you 7.5 degrees of loft if ADDRESSED SQUARE TO THE TARGET. You show this in the video you refer to a 11:00. Seems like people are still thinking "if I lower the loft it will open the face" so they think they're hitting a low-lofted, open-faced driver. They're not. They can EITHER have it lower lofted OR open faced, depending on how they sole it.
Hi,
for me not so many angels are to know!
I have 3 loft to test on my Callaway XR, if some of them give me better result Ok I just play that in coming days.
So fare 12 degr been best for my slow swing.
But to that I play diffr shaft lengts since long time 17 inch to regular shaft given what I wants.
Thanks for tips!
Johnny D Bergh
I wish you did this with the surefit hosel
I'm old school,,,,also this is backwards to me,which means I'm more confused.......ok one question..I usually play a driver at 9.5 standard Titleist but it seems like it's to open should I get a 8 degree and move it to 9 to close the face a little
That would help. Might also want to check out some other drivers as different models will sit more closed or open in the neutral setting.