Microsoft Regrets Using React (For Edge)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Microsoft Edge is a weird browser. This makes me feel even weirder about it. I understand the move away from React, but staying ON HTML feels...weird.
SOURCE blogs.windows....
Check out my Twitch, Twitter, Discord more at t3.gg
S/O Ph4se0n3 for the awesome edit 🙏
![[UNCUT] ชาวบ้านถาม “นายกอุ๊งอิ๊งค์” ประชาชนมีกิน มีใช้ กี่โมง? I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 16 ส.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tKZvOzLIJJc/mqdefault.jpg)
"Nobody uses Microsoft Edge". If you work in corporate you'd be amazed at how popular edge has become. A lot of employees who used to download chrome now use edge instead since it's their default.
True
We have to use Edge at work since it comes by default on company laptops (if you were "lucky" enough to get a Windows laptop, others received MacBooks), and it has a strong case here
- Technologically identical to Chrome
- We already use MS services across the whole company, so accounts are all set up already and you can sync bookmarks, passwords, etc. just like that
- Integrated with the OS and Office, i.e. you copy a link and paste it in Teams, the title gets added automatically
@@nikkehtine maybe i missunderstand you, but what do you mean with "the title gets added automatically"? How is that a postive of Edge, or an example of OS integration? Isn't that a standard feature of many chat apps like Teams? I mean, isn't the app just detecting the pasted url and then does its thing to display the linked site in more pleasing way?
its good tho, definetly better than chrome
Companies want you to use Edge because it can be controlled through active directory and other MS features like Intune.
"Postgres is not very scalable "
"Nobody uses Microsoft Edge"
Whichever AI is writing his scripts is spinning some wild shit
In what video did he say that about postgres? want top laugh a bit more
@@Andre.A.C.Oliveira The one about Figma
You could've said that in a nicer way tho, come on
MSSQL > Postgres
that's the truth though for postgres
Alot more people use edge than you would think, just the power of being default browser like safari
It's also better than Chrome
@@bradbradson4543 its not
Edge is good, too. It has been way better than Chrome for the past 4 or so years - that is if you have no preference over which trillion dollar company should know the most about you
I really really don't want multiple browsers, so I just use edge
Boomers you mean
You have zero idea how many people use Microsoft edge being default to Windows lol
It's pretty much the standard corporate browser. On many companies even enforced by their IT teams who don't want people installing software on their computers. That was a ridiculous statement from Theo.
@@Marfig yes content creator must be knowledgeable before talking, and are not expected to talk sh!t. I'm observing he's chasing Microsoft with negative mindset. I'm not a fan of Microsoft but don't like this kind of fake judgements.
@@sanampakuwal lol what ? edge is max 10% market share on desktop and doesnt exist on mobile...
I started using edge by choice about 3 years ago. It's the same shit as chrome but installed by default and better integrated with windows. I also use it on my phone and it also has their shitty version of ChatGPT which sometimes is helpful and generates dall-e images for free
No one use edge, people hate edge more than any other browser because microsoft are forcing them to use it
0:06 - "Nobody uses Microsoft". Oh dear lord... I would love to have GIFs in TH-cam comments...
I wish I had a clueless jpg big enough to properly express my disagreement with that statement.
Especially in Europe, where Azure is bloody everywhere.
Your listening skills are not the greatest. He said "Nobody really uses Microsoft Edge" which is true. It only holds 10% of the browser market. Look it up instead of relying on your personal experience. Have a nice day.
@@vegito8502 stop twerking for him, I know exactly what I’ve heard.
@@vegito8502 Edge has a larger market share than Twitch, let alone anything else Theo has been involved in since, maybe he should slow his roll a little.
Not a Theo video if he doesn’t have a completely wrong take on something within five minutes of opening his mouth
• They never said they wanted SSR; that's something you made up
• Performance gains are performance gains, wether they're in a weird menu or not. They had some real-world benchmarks showing their use case was slow so they developed a solution that can be applied even in spots where performance is less of a concern.
* React isn't the default but it kinda feels like that's where you're going with this (I say as someone who gladly writes stupid stuff in React and SSR/SSGs it). People can use other stuff if it suits their needs-even better if they develop a solution can be applied to other codebases.
Microsoft made something cool. They had a few options-have a master React instance somewhere, use React Native, or switch to web components. All three are a major refactor and it looks like MS chose something they think might be useful to other people too. Not something to boo.
tl;dr Theo is very React-pilled, read this article, and immediately went into defensive mode.
I was so confused when he kept mentioning SSR. Like why would you even want SSR when you are making a browser?? Why would you have some Node server embedded within your browser that delivers the HTML/CSS/JS when you can just deliver it right away from disk since its all downloaded lol?
@@Neegzm SSG makes sense if you prerender the react parts that can be prerendered before you ship the browser (like how Next.js can prerenders a static web page at build time). Microsoft just never mentioned doing that.
(edit: change term SSR for SSG)
@@BellCube that isn't SSR but SSG
@@javierflores09 Ooooh, new term in my pocket!
If Theo was referring to SSR and not SSG, for shame-that shouldn't benefit performance at all. I suspect he meant SSG then.
Best comment
Watching this on Microsoft Edge.
Same. There are dozens of us.
+
@@radekmojzis9829 Dozens 😂
I switched from Chrome to Edge before all the windows ads for it started
@@derektong same, the only thing that bugs me about it is the fact that it keeps on asking you to set it as your default browser (even when it already is) and that it sometimes changes the default search engine to bing.
As an Ubuntu user, I've been using Firefox as my primary browser for the last 15 years, and I've always had a de-googled Chromium build as my secondary browser. In 2022 my workplace switched to using MS Teams and Office 365. Its no surprise those webapps don't work well in Firefox, but I hated having to run Chromium just to use those MS webapps. So I tried Edge on Linux, yes Microsoft actually has a build of Edge for Ubuntu, it boggles the mind. Yes I know its literally just the Chromium engine with a different UI, but its unironically actually good. It has more features, faster and easier to use than Chromium, and I'm now using it almost as much as Firefox. It amazes me that Microsoft can make a better version of Chrome than Google can.
I'm in a similar spot, been a Firefox user for over 10 years and work "made" me use Edge for certain tasks and I'm surprised. Its tabs grouping is a game changer and I wished Firefox had this feature natively (I've read they are working on it). I'm not going to switch though haha.
@@shimadabr I use a combination of Firefox Multi-Account Containers, and Tree-style-tabs plugin to get a similar experience to Edge tab grouping.
True, I am rocking Edge on Ubuntu
@@shimadabrFirefox had tab grouping years ago but they got rid of it.
Vertical tabs
the craziest thing about this is that they ever used react for edge
Vivaldi also uses React to paint the UI and I say Edge feels much snappier than Vivaldi... so looks like Microsoft done something right for once
mozilla uses it for it's frontend open the firefox dev browser and inspect element it's literally react
@@ea_naseer That seems weird to me, as Firefox's UI is still very customizable with CSS. That's not a trait I associate with React: it usually seems to deliberately try to break any such customization, using random class names and such.
@@ZipplyZane Random class names don't have anything inherently to do with React. You can very much write React code that can be customized by external CSS.
Windows start menu and task manager uses react too don't they?
Just opened Edge and took a quick look around. It's actually quite impressive now. Integrated ChatGPT, ability to split window in 2, the TTS has way better voices than Chrome with multiple language support, native support for vertical tabs and workspaces seems intriguing. Tbh, I probably wouldn't mind using it. It's come a long way since Internet Explorer.
That's because Microsoft abandoned their own browsers (the original Edge and Internet Explorer) to make their own Chromium fork, copy the Chrome extension store, and basically just put their name on it all.
You're wrong on so many levels with this comment
Integrated CHatGPT is the one thing I disable whenever Edge updates.
Back in 1998 we had responsive menus that ran on machines with a few MHz. Now we need super computers to render a menu. Amazing! They shoved some super slow shit around so the user wouldn't notice. No wonder the new start menu and Teams are slow.
Somewhere in the distance a lone Casey Muratori howls, transformed under a full moon of virtual tables and clean code
I think about this a lot
1998, everything on the internet has shitty UI
That's because resource efficiency was never a business goal, and never will be. "minimize costs, increase profit" is. "Shipping fast" minimizes the cost of development time, and having a uniform popular framework everyone can work with and make it easy to ship helps.
Slow as balls and RAM heavy. My Professor from 2000 would 5h1t his pants if he was still alive (just because of how loosey-goosey developers program these inefficient applications of today). The whole two decades of 2004-2024 have been a hype train of BS software; but the hardware is crazy inventive and great. The lowest computer that I have has 64GB of ram and I swear, firefox and chrome can use every bit of that if I don't close tabs for a week.
I have two Epyc 64 cores running 512 RAM and I bet I could get firefox and chrome to use all of that. These programmers today suck at programming, and I blame Facebook.
P.S. I was talking to some kid last Friday, and he had the nerve to say that Webpages run faster now because React is refining itself. I didn't even try to correct his dumb a55.
"Nobody uses Edge."
(sees reference to a system with 8GB) "I forgot what shit devices are out there."
To be very, very clear, they never, not once, said anything about server components.
Does not even make sense to run it in a "server", like wtf, ppl think server components are magically faster, NO, React will render the same way and speed in the server as it would in your device, like you are just wasting resources in the server for no gain at all
@@victor95pc I mean, server components have their place, but this ain't it, not by a long shot.
server components don't make sense when the bundle is already installed.
Theo, the one thing you seem to be missing, is that server side rendering is still rendering on the user's device in this case, as edge is a native app that does not fetch its code from a server to run
it can be cached, or rendered at build time like SSG
It's insane that an OS vendor who releases their own native UI APIs would use sth like React for a major software product. What's next? System preferences in Electron?
MS have all but given up on their own technology & either acquire or utilise the work of others at this point.
Because Microsoft create windows, but Microsoft want their app to be used on Linux and mac
For example teams and skype are build with electron or something similar
@@untlsn saying they want them on other platforms is a stretch I feel, they just want the money & telemetry by any means. Most of their products are terrible though, be it desktop, mobile or web.
They should just buy Avalonia UI and invest in that product since it's a modern .NET cross platform gui framework and more performant than React Native
That’s why all of their newish stuff sucks or at least looks shitty like it was done by an intern. Especially this window that comes up when you hover the mouse over the weather icon.
Are you really suggesting they use server components for local UI? I know it's in a browser, but if you don't have Internet, I would think you would still want to be able to see the browser controls. And if the "server" in this case is just some local JavaScript engine / runtime, is that not just a restatement of the issue? What performance beneifits would that have?
same thought, so now your pc specs and internet speed affect your app performance.. nice
Technically all components are server components if it's on a local app such as a web browser 😂
He most likely meant the functionality itself, not the web. I guess that the role of a web server could be replaced by some background task that could expose the localhost which would allow to use server components inside Windows without a need for reaching for web
yeah that was a genuinely insane suggestion. how frontend brained do you need to be to suggest adding network latency to rendering your bookmarks bar?
No idea why he mentioned SSR in this context either.
I'm really having trouble understanding Theo these days. He used to sound like he knew what he was talking about, somewhat? Now he is completely clueless and has bad takes on everything. Is he outsourcing his scripts to chatgpt? Or just intentionally posting wrong info for the engagement? In any case, unsubscribed and removed from youtube recommendations... good luck with your company bro hopefully you have a good CTO that can make the important decisions.
He's always been somewhat like that. Its not all bad, but its not leading N.E.W.S. or expert professional advice. I browse or rifle through his videos about once every two weeks to see what "corporate agendas" the higher ups are trying to shove down the youths throats.
I think it is because of him doing a copy paste of his stream VODs. I like to think he has an editor or proofread for non-VOD youtube videos where a significant portion of his takes are reworded by his editors/proofreaders. But they don't really have a say if it's all livestreamed because they don't have a chance to proofread it.
And did he block you on X like other unsubs.
How can you so confidently deny their actual measurements?? They never mentioned in the article that they use multiple instances of react. They just say that performance is slow because of common bundles. Where did the "20 instances of react" come from?
Theo takes personally any claim that React is not the solution to every problem. I can't imagine how worse he would react if he had actually built it.
I use Edge for Windows because it's the fastest browser for that system and it's less CPU and memory intensive than Chrome.
Same. It's actually a great browser if you're in Windows. I feel like people who say that it's sh!t are just parroting what they've heard and/or basing it on their experience with Internet Explorer, but haven't really used Edge in Windows.
100% true.
it is chrome though? idk if you've used chrome in a while, but it's not that memory intensive anymore
@@gr.4380I am straight up bored by Chrome. So use Arc and edge.
@@RexTorres I tried to use Edge when I got a new computer. It still took up way too much space on everythin, due to all the additional white space, added a pointless extra side toolbar and tried to push me into using AI. It just has all this junk in it that should just be extensions that you can not install.
Granted, I'm currently using Brave, where I had to turn off a lot of stuff. But that's more because they promise not to screw up the UI like Google did with the 2023 refresh, which implements some of the bad stuff from Edge
Plus I have tons of windows open on Brave and have only 4GB used. If Edge is having problems with 8GB or under computers until now, then it sounds like it used to be worse than Chrome or Brave or Firefox.
We edging react now ?
It looks like they've been edging react for a while.
The question is, what will they edge next?
@@chriss3404 lmao
This is the result when DX becomes more important than UX. I see this trend all around.
Chrome is an excellent example of slow C++ code, however, in languages like C++, it is extremely hard to write slow code whereas in JavaScript it's extremely hard to write "fast" code.
Chrome is just very complicated. It's millions of lines of code written over 20 years.
Please share some links to specific parts of the chrome code base that is slow c++ code.
@@samsinite100 i mean its relative [slow C++ is going to be faster than fast JS, and I am sure that it is as fast as it can go] .. but it takes chromium based browsers seconds to boot... [and being fair not just chrome browsers are really bloated in general].
Calling a 8GB ram device shitty is pretty wild, the fact that it's like that it's because of bad software only
8gb RAM is not shitty, but the need for it is not bad software though, generally.
I think he meant ones less than 8gb. Like 4gb, 2gb, or even lower computers still chugging along. (Closer to the 1gig mark, 4gb 'should' be fine)
Agree about the software bloat though 100%
8GB is shitty, I haven’t had 8GB of ram since 2010
You can’t do anything meaningful with 8GB of ram, no video games, no graphics or audio editing, no programming IDEs, no Docker containers, and definitely none of these things at the same time, 8GB is a joke
@@thebluriamWhy should I have video games running in the background while editing audio?
@@mme725 4 gb still should be handle the browser doing nothing, like there is people that just use the browser for research
I enjoy hearing Theo's take on things, but sometimes his American background might limit his understanding of how things function elsewhere
Would you give an example?
I'm just curious what you picked up on
Can you be more clear? Better to make Americans less ignorant than go, "you just don't get it..."
I'll attempt to read your mind... Are you referring to low spec machines that are more common outside the states, where even this WebUI 2.0 is still an issue?
@@untlsn for one: in the US, AWS is the leading cloud computing provider. In the EU, Azure has about as big a lead as Amazon does in the US (IIRC)
My thoughts exactly!
Theo seems pretty clueless when it comes to Web Components.
came to say this. They all are a buncha franework/library fanboyz
React conf just showed that Microsoft uses React Native everywhere on Windows. Including the menu
Edge is amazing btw, has a ton of features compared to chrome including grouped vertical tabs, workspaces, split layouts, free GPT-4 chat with context, reader mode and way more.
I use the stable for work and beta release for personal stuff (to have completly separate tabs and settings). Also using a link redirection app so different links open in the correct browsers.
i only wish they handled tab groups like vivaldi, they're so good there
@ky3ow it's preference, but I much prefer Edge's tabs over vivaldi's 🤷🏻♂️
I'm not sure if it is available for linux or not, but Edge has profiles. You can create a new profile to have completely separate windows and settings with the same edge installation. I use different profiles for work, personal stuff and research.
UI isn't just menus. It's things like breadcrumbs, modals, interactions such as enabling/disabling options from other settings, sortable and filterable tables, etc. See e.g. the ARIA Authoring Practices Guide for a list of common UI/UX patterns and how to make them accessible. This is why XUL had a lot of components -- the controls in html forms are too limiting for an application.
If you include things like the web developer tools, there are even more UI/UX controls and patterns.
It's not just about menus, but Edge sidebars, such as "Browser essentials". They're basically independent apps ("microfrontends").
Firefox's tab ui is the most well throughout, It doesn't shrink tabs into unclickable small upon opening like 50 tabs ... Chrome
It's responsive and you can scroll it
Chrome also uses HTML for almost everything, you can view the source for pages like history or settings. They don't use React but Polymer Web Components for their UI.
9:53 - FWIW: Web components absolutely can be server side rendered. Especially using declarative shadow DOM. The standard is fairly new, but since the browser is known/controlled (it’s Edge, so it’s modern Chromium) it renders just fine server-side and is “hydrated” (so to speak, maybe better said “progressively enhanced”) on page load. The DSD of a web component renders 100% before any JS loads at all and no swapping of HTML has to happen at all, since it stays isolated in the shadow DOM, just mounted ahead of time into the WC w/o having to manually create/attach it on construct()/connectedCallback().
That said, I have no clue what architecture, frameworks or design patterns Edge is (or isn’t) using for web components. Just noting that as far as WC’s are concerned, you can definitely pre-render that stuff these days, especially with WASM frameworks like Enhance.
Thank you, MSFT, for making Microsoft Edge faster
I think this is where Qt and QML does a really good job. They precompile your QML so you don't run into what MS is running into. And it's fast.
They never said their goal was SSR, sounds more like compile time rendering was the goal.
Ive been using edge for a few years now
its awesome!
This feels like a hamster wheel first UI development was really complicated then we got components frameworks on desktop development and last we got UI editor for C# and Java and maybe QT? With this you could rapid prototyping and got something running in minutes. Now they redo all this with web stuff on desktop.
I'm old enough to remember all of that happening in Java. Its a 5h1tshow. Never follow a tech that switches up the game that much -- it means they don't know what they're doing. Or they're doing it on purpose to give the non-principal employees something to do during the 8 hour shift.
I started using Edge a year or so ago just to give it a fair shake. It was supposed to be temporary. On Windows, I am still using it today. Pretty much exclusively too. Otherwise, it was primarily Firefox. It performs really well and while I am sure that its tab organizing features are not exclusive to it, they are nifty. But hey, I'm just an end user.
Fun Fact, Start Menu in Windows 11 is possibly React Native. Even the smart screen is just XML and CSS.
source: I reverse engineer windows applications for fun.
If you reverse engineering apps and reverse engineering the OS are two different things mate.
BTW, the start menu is written in C# using an upgraded Metro UI.
@@dh00mk3tu which is also just WPF / WinUI3, i.e. HTML and CSS
UWP natively supports web stack and XAML/C#.
@@dh00mk3tu you can peek at OS-level apps in %PROGRAMFILES%/WindowsApps and %WINDIR%/SystemApps
@@dh00mk3tu he's most likely talking about apps in %WINDIR%/SystemApps
I would guess they could not use react native like you suggested because chrome builds most of its UIs in web tech and they have to hook into chromium
And that make building for windows, mac and specialy linux harder
Because you need to make all this elements look good on all this platforms when using native
I don't really understand the relevance of client-side vs server-side rendering in a *desktop application*. The closest we have to SSR is GeForce Now, and that should never be needed for a web browser.
3:03 - I'm so used to taking notes in bullet points that I felt called out
I still have a huge sentimental spot for Firefox though...
sadly the mozilla foundation does all kinds of shit, but firefox is sadly kind of neglected i feel. how many browsers are there, that are not based on chromium by now? as far as I know, they don't do much with their browser and their focus currently is on AI stuff and perhaps how to incorporate that into the browser. I'm curious where it ends up.
for actual development I still prefer chrome though.
I feel that I am the most productive in Firefox for normal browsing.
Getting my top bar perfectly customized is an experience that I've never been able to have on Chrome.
Still like the Chrome dev tools better for dev work though.
@@MrLordLowbob Interesting. For me, I end up on Firefox for development especially. Everything I ususally need to know is laid out very nicely and concisely on Firefox. Perhaps the profiling and perf recording could be better, but I have never had that problem.
What I dont understand is, isn't Gecko opensource? Why are companies adamant about using Chromium? Can't they just develop and contribute to gecko to make it better? So its only Mozilla (afaik) that just slowly work on Gecko. While Chromium gets development from the best engineers at Google and MS at the very least.
@@chriss3404Firefox devs tools have been getting better though
@@MrLordLowbob I use Firefox at home and Chrome at work (mandated), both heavily..... and Firefox does better every time.
Flutter and xamarin is dead then?
@10:15 I think if you use declaritive shadow DOM you can get pretty good server rendering. The one thing you'd have to solve is how to serialize and transfer the server's state to the client, but all the existing (and still relevant) frameworks had to solve that too.
edit: yep, if I had watched for 30 more seconds the answer would already have been on screen...
sometimes I wish they're collecting audio so they can learn from the times I'm yelling at the screen
Remember : "shit device" is an economical and ecological choice that makes sense...
I’m on a Mac and primarily use Safari. If I run into a website that has a compatibility issue, I open Edge - which is the only other browser I have installed. Edge is the browser we push for all our users at the company I work at. That’s where I first started using it and find it to “feel” less bloated than Chrome.
Using React is always a bad ideia when you have much better alternatives out there....
Microsoft Edge compared to other browsers consumes the least amount of RAM and this matters if you're running multiple tabs or high RAM tasks or have you have low grade laptop or PC
I'm using react since 2018. Next.js is making me consider to ditch it and move to something else.
I wonder how Edge performs better than other browsers on my MacBook too despite using Web UI
Could they have used HTMX to achieve this? What exactly is WebUI2.0 and how is it different from HTMX?
I was happier when I used to think that anything that wasn't a website was made with non-web technologies
Man, Edge is very optimized for Windows than Chrome
Edge has the best implementation of Vertical Tabs I have been able to find, I can't go back to Horizontal Tabs.
The read aloud features work really well, and there is a huge selection of voices. I found out quite by accident the non-English voices will read English in that language's accent. Really fun to try out.
it's a similar problem to what the islands architecture in leptos tries to solve
Another reason why electron got so popular was due to Qt went to shit licensing for any small dev studio, while electron is free,/mit license for corporate use
You use React to make a single page web app that runs on the client, which helps get around copyright issues using fair use.
I have stop using chrome/opera since Chromium Edge release.
These are the browser I am using!
1. Arc
2. Firefox
3. Edge (for everything).
For some reason the phrase "Rube Goldberg Machine" comes to mind ;) I just wrapped up a 30+ year software development career and I'm happy to say I never got dragged into the whole web development mess. For the past 15 years I've been working deep in the plumbing wringing out all the performance I can get from the business logic layer of a variety of in house apps. That's it's own type of mess of course ;)
*sigh* People hate Edge because they think it's the new Internet Explorer while it has nothing to do with IE. People keep repeating others dumb opinions without checking for themselves.
I use MS Edge as "daily driver" and it's great. In the past I've used Chrome (for years), Opera, Firefox (a lot) and few others less known. Edge is really fast, UI can be customized for minimalism. Also, when browsing on the laptop I noticed that other browsers drain more battery, I get the best power efficiency when using Edge. It has the right amount of customization and options that I need while being lightweight. I don't care it's shipped by Microsoft, I care about its performance and options.
There are a number of online marketplaces that have an option to code your store page in html. Some post some commonly used commands too, so even I was able to make something passable
I'm a MacOS user. I specifically downloaded Edge because its UI is intuitive and lets me focus on the things I want to do without having to fiddle too much with the UI, like looking for which tab I want to use.
I use edge and it's fine, it's not like chrome any better.
I’ve always been a fan of using spyware 😊
@@murtadha96 So chrome in general? :)
Very naive @@murtadha96
I went through the following after like 10 years of using Chrome:
- Opera GX, 1 year
- Firefox, 3 months
- Edge, 6 months
- Brave, 2 months
- Chrome, 1 month
- Vivaldi, ~2 years until now
(and I am in the process of swapping to Floorp)
Edge is still one of the better choices.
It looks good, it feels good, it has nice features, it works well on Linux
@@ecodoge Nah. I use Brave.
Why shouldn't one? When it came out, it was approximately 10 times faster than Chrome. (It's chromium anyway, so why the fuzz?)
Their initial approach to Edge reminds me of how they handled “transparency" in PowerPoint. There were no alpha channels, Instead, they knocked out a 1-color background by chopping up an image into one or more separate images for *every row* of pixels, and each strip of pixels would start and stop wherever the background color was. It worked, but was fairly sluggish within PowerPoint. It really became a problem when exporting to PDF, where a single slide could top 100Mb presumably due to headers for each microfile.
I have switched from Chrome to Microsoft Edge entirely once I checked all the features it had to offer. I never thought such day would come but it was worth it.
Been a web dev for 12 years and I use Edge primarily nowadays. Does nobody else use Edge?
I've been in tech my whole life, and I just made the switch to Edge. It's brilliant. I couldn't have said that a year ago, but these performance improvements put it well above even Arc, which I've also tried.
I don't get why we would need to use a JavaScript Framework to make non webpage UI. Microsoft has their own code platform, if we are making UI in html then make that work with C#/C++ and get rid of the interpreters and virtual runtimes
Edge still has the 3D inspector. That is why I use it for as a dev.
I don't think I can get myself past the horror show that was IE6. I haven't been able to use a Microsoft browser since the trauma I experienced as a web dev 20 years ago.
IE6 was way ahead of its competitors back in the day, and had pretty much steered the modern web to where we are now. Cool new experimental CSS and JavaScript features, plugins, albeit weird bugs and lenient interpretation of standards. It took a lot of time for Firefox to reach feature parity. And then there was a boom of browsers that had also tried to ride on the IE antimonopoly lawsuit hype train. Now we have Chromium, that has arguably become the IE6 of current time with its own new exciting experimental features and a bag of stupid bugs and lenient interpretation of standards (look at inside a ). Some people outgrow their trauma and stay curious, and some get stuck in the past
I've been using Opera since AOL destroyed Netscape.
Grow up already.
Was this why you changed your career to be a lawyer?
@@Nekroido obviously you haven't developed web pages back in the day.
Microsoft on purpose would not follow web standards to force developers to conform to their unique specs.
Debugging on IE6 was an undescribable nightmare.
In the past decade or so Microsoft has switched it's policy and contributed a lot to open source and web standards.
But it wasn't out of their good heart. They bought Github and trained their LLM on all public repositories. Now they are selling that public knowledge as their own through copilot subscription.
The upcoming Recall tracking functionality makes their previous adware operating systems feel like beacons of freedom.
I remember back in the days when Dashcode was still a thing, some MacOS X panels are actually HTML based as well. Some view components in some System Preferences panels as well as one I remember was a view in the Dictionary app preferences
Which framework did they replace with react?
Web Components, which are browser native and don't need a framework, although a framework like Lit can help.
Wow the HTML menu on the Wii is one of the most unexpected things I've seen in a while
one interesting place where html and javascript is used for menus and UIs is Counter Strike.
The ui in CS2 is based on web technologies and this also was the cause for some bugs and vulnerabilities (that were fixed)
dude lives in a bubble
11:34 Yeah, welcome to the world of microfrontends my friend :D
At the very limit, I could understand using vanilla JS and HTML to handle some UI stuff because that's effectively "dogfooding" and it's quite acceptable in the context of a browser. React though... I mean, it's Microsoft; just walk down the hall until you spot a disheveled dude wearing a Slayer shirt and ask them to write like four lines of C++ to render the menu.
"Dog food" as a verb. Amazing! Lol
RN for windows and mac and they left out linux??
You make the remark that no one uses Edge, but I love it for work on my Windows laptop. It's primarily a Windows-first domain, Sharepoint, Office-365, the works. As such, there was a lot of bloat that had to be added to other browsers to get the integration native in Microsoft browsers.
From a usability standpoint, I'm a big fan of things like the side-view panel, and Copilot integration. I don't use it for my personal browser (that's Firefox), but it's so far-and-away better than the original Edge back in the Windows 8 days. Highly recommend trying it, before going back to one of the cooler browsers.
Microsoft describe the need of "Qwik framework" almost all of that is already solved.
They said they will open source WebUI 2.0, so we'll have to wait and see what technology is that, since the article doesn't go into much detail.
I use a combination of both edge and Opera. There's certain plugins and default items are in edge that I use constantly, especially for the reader that's in built into edge. Makes it easy for me to pull text from a website that has locked down copy and pasted from from it, which I find very annoying cuz I'll copy paste it into a book format that can put it on my phone to do text to speech while I'm driving two books
Peopel at my workplace dont even know the difference between chrome and edge. They just use whatever works.
Bro the clickbait thumbnail. I was thinking how casual Microsoft culture become.
switched from chrome to edge for the AI, vertical tabs, and much less of a memory profile. Never going back hahaha
2 years ago Edge only at 3.3% while Chrome at 64.75%, today Edge 5.17% and Chrome is 65.35%
Note that these changes do nothing to improve the utter accessibility failure for those who rely on assistive technology. The doors to FOSS, i.e. GitHub and SourceForge, now feature front doors lifted 3ft off the ground with no stairs let alone wheelchair ramp, with no knob -- there's a switch for that now, but the instructions tacked to the door are written in invisible ink. React sucks.
There was always a "sales pitch" that the "Web UI" could be the UI for all apps, regardless of whether it was "web" or local. Sounds like Windows is still stuck on that.
I hate to make the comments go from 420 to 421 but here we go!
Single SPA in my experience simplified the import of shared dependencies. Sounds like they made the same thing but a new markup/internal framework.
Damn I'm so excited to Edge even faster than before
So, it's not that they used React, but how they used it that was bad. Does this sound familiar? I mean, it's the case with anything.
Theo, I don't mean to be that guy about it but Microsoft's UI tooling for Windows has been badass for like the past 10 years, React Native just makes it easier to target cross platform, but they're UI tooling itself especially on Windows 11 is genuinely good.
in the compression video everyone was correcting theo, and in this one too lol
a very GOOD portion of my cs classmates also use edge lol, they prefer it over chrome (specially if they are the ones that have obly ever used windows)
FYI only the Store on Xbox is React Native, the rest of the UI is C++ UWP
I like how they mention how the web used to be just HTML & CSS, and then run away before people realize maybe JavaScript at all in a lot of cases is fundamentally going to severely hurt performance
I think you were spot on, with your assessment. An odd choice of place to use react. I get that since they already have the engine, why not utilize it (dogfooding), possibly some portability in mind too, but what a way to hit a toothpick with a sledgehammer.