Quick note on the Amirov situation. My wife's sister had brain cancer and part of the process required small drilling into the cranial (as expected with any biopsies or surgery to the head). As soon as that was done, her ability to do any sort of contact based activity poses a risk to her life. As much as you hope for the kid, I think it's safe to say he's not going to play hockey again, certainly not anything beyond shinny on a pond with kids / family and even that might be too much of a risk. When you're dealing with the brain, it's the only organ in your body you can't get a transplant for. And if you have cancer there, the likelihood of not needing some form of invasive surgery is probably low.
Excellent point by CJ "I don't believe that any of them (core 4) believe they have to be better" That is terrifying and its SO similar to the Canucks' players mentality, where they are all well aware of their individual talent level and are kind of just "good"with that, hoping 1 year it all magically works. ughhh
To sums up CJ’a point, and I’m saying this as a non-leafs fan: The current Toronto Maple leafs feels more like a country club than a professional sports team with the way their core players act.
It's an interesting juxtaposition between previous Leafs teams. Say what you will about Lamoriello, that's a GM that command authority and hold players to some strong expectations regardless of who they are. If you look at him or Quinn or Ferguson (I'll ignore Burke since his tenure was so futile) or Lamoriello, they put equal value to the Gary Roberts or Matt Martins of the team as they do to any 1st liner. It's much easier to form a team identity and team culture that way. It's a culture that can over achieve as opposed to under achieve. There's none of that with the Leafs over the last few years, be it from Dubas, Keefe, or Tavares. They don't hold each other accountable, and they don't lean on each other. That's a group of individuals up there in Toronto as opposed to a team. I get it that Dubas cares for his players and blah blah blah, but there isn't anything resembling the kind of respect, expectations, and accountability that is required. Even though they are built very differently, all you got to do is look at the Lightning from 2020-2022, the Islanders from 2019-2021, and the current Hurricanes and Panthers teams and see the commonalities in team culture and accountability that is what is really missing in Toronto.
Touching on the Coyotes situation. I live in Northern Glendale, AZ. Not a Coyotes fan, but a huge hockey fan who still supports the team so I can actually get the chance to see my team play in person once a year, that whole situation was doomed from the beginning. While I could not vote in that election because I don't live in Tempe, and was hopeful it would possibly pass just to ensure the team would stay around, the fact that they would not budge on the housing as being a part of the deal was a huge problem from the beginning. I know so many people who could vote in that election, also hockey fans who were not happy with that aspect of that plan or the fact that tax payers would have to foot the bill. From the very beginning that plan was doomed. I've always felt the Coyotes would succeed if they built an arena in the Northern Scottsdale area. The east side of the valley is where you'll find more hockey fans in general plus if they find a spot right off the 101 loop near the Taking Stick casino it would be tough to keep people away. Having gone to lots of games at Gila River Arena in Glendale the location was just not optimal. If they could figure out a way to get the team near the East valley I really feel they could succeed. Fingers crossed they figure something out 🤞
What Dubas was actually saying: My family is sick of being harassed by psychotic Leafs fans and equally psychotic Leafs haters so I need to see how much more BS they're willing to put up with before deciding anything. And don't pretend this has never happened, you know full well that people are scummy enough to jeer at his family.
People shouldn't harass him but I get it. Most people with as little success as him would be fired. It's actually frustrating to see how little these people have to deal with reality. Matthews is a ghost in the playoffs and will be getting a raise..........what a joke
With the Treliving situation, I imagine it’s more that the Flames don’t want the Pens to have their drafting and scouting info because I’m sure Brad has a lot of that info in his head
I spent all 45 years of my life in Columbus. When I was a kid there was no youth hockey and no one knew how or where to watch the NHL. Hockey was non existent. However once private and public relationships were formed, they built the Arena and the surrounding Arena District to get an NHL expansion franchise (they did it after the voters voted NO on tax dollars being spent for an arena). Now 23 years later, the Arena District is a development success story, youth hockey has exploded, my two sons are 6 and 8 and it their favorite sport to follow. Local High School, College and women's hockey has continued to grow, we watch the NHL every night. Good lord... now I even love to watch sdpn. This is the generational long play to grow the sport, that is why I believe there so many untapped markets in the U.S. that would be amazing, it just takes time. It is amazing to me that we now have several local kids who have made it to the NHL, since the Jackets first arrived. I just wish the hockey gods would bless us with draft lottery success!
Living in metro Detroit, have really enjoyed these podcasts, since local radio never talks hockey. The most popular station in town is all football, with a little basketball and baseball thrown in. Have been having playoff withdrawal in the last 3 days since there has been no nightly games, and this fills the need for the most up to date hockey fix.
The issue with the "taxpayer money" thing is they're going to have to pay taxes to fix/replace that dump ANYWAY since it's about to be contaminating their water table.
Only "taxpayer money" in the deal was for legitimate government functions like utilities and roads (100 million in total). Half of which was offset by the city not having to pay the clean up of the landfill.
I remember when the Raptors won, Kyle had an interview where he talked about how it took Messai trading Demar for Kyle to really see that his way of playing was too predictable and not good enough to win. And it wasnt because neither were good enough to be on a championship team, it was that because they were together for soooo long and had gotten so comfortable, he was blind to other possibilities
To ask ppl to feel sorry for him is a joke. Stress about feeding your family or how you’re going to pay your bills is real stress. This kid doesn’t appreciate the dream job that’s pays millions. Quote steve. That’s what the money is for
Was thinking of the Tavares contract situation. He gets paid most of his salary as a signing bonus which for a team that needs to make the cap floor pretty intriguing. Tavares will only be owed $7.9 Million after July 1st for any team that trades for him. Obviously he would need to waive to make it happen but it actually doesn't sound as crazy. The team gets $22 Million worth of cap fill for $7.9 Million real money
Even if this Arena vote was held last November, or even next November, where they'd get the highest potential turnout, that Arena would've been voted down. These kinds of votes are almost never approved by voters and are almost always done unilaterally through legislatures/committees/boards/etc. unless the owner is paying for it themselves.
Actually, the original Scottsdale deal had actually been approved...but Ellman got the sweetheart deal from Glendale and backed out of Scottdale. America West Arena had 5,000 obstructed seats (you literally couldn't see anything from the blue line down), and TOOK OUT the ice plant in the building in the recent remodel. There's no way the Coyotes play downtown Phoenix. There's a LOT of distaste in Maricopa County for arena deals due to political shenanigans for building America West Arena and the (formerly) Bank One Ballpark.
Thank you for the specifics...also Glendale, the city, was subsidizing the Yotes to the tune of 30-50 million...a year. Don't blame people for not trusting companies / politicians.
@@stephenphillips6245 Oh, for sure. The AWA/BoB situations started this whole thing. AWA gets built, public outraged they're using taxpayer dollars to build an arena for Jerry Colangelo. Public referendum passes...no new arenas with public money in Maricopa county unless put before the voters. So the lawmakers created a special "taxing district" that org-chart wise wasn't IN Maricopa County,, but obviously was physically in MC and they built BoB anyways. Voters were pissed. There are still people that refuse to attend Diamondbacks games because of it. The voting demographics of this Tempe thing...ARE THOSE PEOPLE.
Where CJ's view on Dubas falls apart is that he expects us to believe that in not extending Dubas, Rogers and Bell made a mistake. Really, are we to believe Rogers and Bell are capable of an error? *cough*
I'm trying to think of a deal I'd offer from the Habs for one of the core 4, but it just doesn't make sense for us to pay what other teams would be willing to pay. It's a hard trade for any team because they have to be in their win now mode OR just about to get there. And then does that team have 10 million cap space? Are they going to decimate an already winning team for that star player they covet? Has to be the right trade partner. But I'm moving Marner for a good gritty forward and a good defenseman and 2 top prospects
Look at the North American economy. Everyone is looking at their paychecks and living situation and not worried where some millionaire hockey players and billionaire owners are going to play.
I enjoy the prospective of Chris Johnston . Some logic also some frank honesty with some speculation. Kyle did say that last year and during the season heading more towards trade deadline nothing was off the table. With the comment of complacency or assuming they the highly paid players wouldn't be traded , Who has had made them feel that they it wouldn't happen to any of them.
Dubas changed 30% of his Roster at the Deadline, including the St. Louis trade...giving up a 1st 2nd and 3rd for two players who were a combined minus 30. Add the goalie situation to the lack of cap, prospects, or draft picks...one has to wonder why he's even being considered for an extention.
He let McCann go and kept Kerfoot. Dubas now wants ppl to feel sorry for him and his stress. Get out of here, stressing about feeding your family that’s real stress. get out of here dubas
Let's just name the two lights. Any suggestions? I'd go with Darcy on the left and Tucker on the right. I think that works as they're in your face and are hard to ignore 😂
In Salt Lake we have an Echl Team that plays out of the Maverik Center in West Valley City, one of the Suburbs. It seats 10100 and has nearly sold that out for an Echl club a couple times over the last few years. Vivint Arena is listed as 14000 for hockey and is right downtown. I went to the Utah Grizzlies game the night the Stanely Cup was in the building and there was over 9800 in the building. They're the Avalanche affiliate. SLC is rather spread out and the whole area's population is about 1.3 million. Phoenix is 4.8 million. I'd love to see an NHL club here, but I have no idea if it would work. Also even though the Maverik center works for the echl cub, it's dated, built in 96 and I don't think has ever had a major renovation. It was used in the 2002 Olympics. If an NHL club was moving in they'd go to Vivint, not the Maverik
You know what would be a really good topic for Agent provocateur is going back and diving into why the former teams of the 90's werent able to keep their teams going beyond the normal excuse of "financial issues" and looking at the canadian teams that were rumored to possibly be moving around that time as well (like the oilers almost moving to houston)
Numbers in Sweden, Finland and etc going down is due to many things. 1. Time zones and super late games. People with jobs, kids, or even just a functional sleep cycle can't stay up till 3-4 am to watch the EARLY games till the end. Nobody is gonna buy any merch for a league they don't / can't watch. This leads me to point two. 2. Nowhere to buy actual merch except for an online store that nobody ever hears of, which is also a huge loss of an advertisement opportunity. 3. Streaming services here in Sweden have gone from 15-20 USD per month to almost 50 dollars per MONTH. It's absolutely insane and not a lot of people are going to pay for that to watch when there are free illegal streams. 4. Lack of advertisement. The only commercials I've personally seen for the NHL is during the week of the stadium series here in Sweden, and whilst already watching the games. 5. Having talented domestic leagues. A lot of hockey fans are more than happy just following the SHL, LIIGA, or KHL. I\m sure there's more that i'm missing but these are things that comes to mind straight away
the lack of player accountability has been mind boggling to watch. i could actually feel this coming back when Keefe walked back his comments in the Fall
Dubas is officially gone. I have mixed feelings about it. I think he did his best but remained too loyal to some people, especially Keefe. At the end of the day it’s a results driven business and he hasn’t delivered. Maybe as leaf fans we’ve become so accustomed to failure that we see dubas as a mild success, even though it hasn’t been.
to clarify: we're trading mitch...the guy who PKs, makes everyone better and keeping matthews who wants 15M for 3 years and is injury prone?........yaba daba fuckin doo.
@@marc-antoinemarcoux697 if you think Austons going there, especially after last nights news you’re either delusional, or beating a dead meme into the ground.
Weird how many people think a guy handed the most talented core drafted in team history who messed it up in negotiations with them and Tavares deserves to stay. Crazy talk
Marner to Seattle, I truly believe this would benefit both teams greatly. Seattle has the consistent depth that Toronto needs, with no huge contracts. And for Seattle, they would get a true #1 player, and although he would be in a larger role, because of how different it is than Toronto with much less pressure, I believe he can step up she push a team through big moments better there than Toronto.
Maybe being in a space where he’s not as comfortable will make him adapt his game. As CJ said maybe he’s too comfortable and doesn’t think he has to change as long as he’s in Toronto.
That's if Toronto is smart either Marner or Matthews goes or both for some key depth pieces that they need. Defense wise they need it and they need that grit that can show up in the playoffs.
Dubass built a top heavy team and then was forced to go cheap on the other areas. Defence, goaltending. You don't give 4 forwards such a huge piece of the pie. Two forwards, one stud defenseman and a top notch goalie!
Um he didn't have to offer the top heavy contracts well before they those players hadn't accomplished anything . He may have inherited a bad contract, but he also made some not so positive trades , gave up futures for rentals, and able to retain any of them because of 4 players making 50 million then added another this year
See, I agree with CJ about if you trade the Core 4 away or not. I don't want the Leafs to make a move simply because they feel they need to, if you're trading away a superstar talent like Marner, you need to get at least a star-level player in return (e.g. a Nico Hischier level of player), plus whatever prospect/pick/rotation player combination comes along. Whether Dubas is in charge, or someone else, I hope Leafs management makes sure that they're not taken for dummies this offseason.
@Ktownie city Parayko is a Stanley Cup winner on a long, team-friendly deal. Marner is crazily overpaid, and he walks as a UFA pretty soon. I'd say it's at least Marner, a 1st and Knies for Parayko. (That would be my starter in negotiations if I'm somehow STL GM)
Growing up an Oilers fan as a kid. Once Gretzky was traded. And when the Doug Gilmour trade to Toronto happened. I've been a die-hard Leafs fan since. Hope every year. At this point. Who really cares what happens. Trades, management change, whatever. Damn you Cliff Fletcher for making me a fan of this cursed team!
On what basis does this panel evaluate the performance of the team, the coaching staff, & the management? If you have a consistent track record of failure in the playoffs, how could anybody claim that you are the best GM in the league? Of course, MLSE interest is on the revenue not winning, and they are doing an excellent job on that front.
Alright so I’m a Florida panthers fan, and I was first here for Steve’s pain. Then I realized I loved the boys talking hockey and now here I am 4-5 episodes later…invest in y’all’s future. I’m so confused, but am loving the hockey content. 😂🙌🏻
Also a Panthers fan, but I got brought here by Hat Picks and Dang-Its (The BEST day of the week!) And while Steve is very funny as Slaphappy McSad, I hate it when we can't both have nice things. I appreciate them talking about how the experience of being a Panthers fan was really bad for a long time, both because the team was bad and because we were the butt of every joke and the subject of every relocation rumor, and that now it feels like those days are over for a long time, if not for good. I wish the Coyotes could have gotten that happily-ever-after, too.
CJ is the man! CJ, don’t know if you read any of the fan comments but do you have any info on pittsburghs gm situation? I’m glad hex is gone but the draft, grandland contract, petry, there are a lot of things that need done. Not to mention the pens owning the 14th overall pick, probably the highest we’re going to draft since the Crosby era started I would imagine.
1:34:17 to Steve's question about the voter demographics. It's quite simple; the youth in the US do not often vote on these sort of local referendum votes, because these issues are not the larger, national issues the youth in the US actually care about.
That Tempe situation is a bit of a disaster, a ton of misinformation and Coyotes ownership flubbing the campaign. The Tempe residents wouldn't even be paying any future money into the project, it's all tax money the city already had.
Dubas was just saying he didn't want to put his family in a difficult position by publicly declaring that he wanted to be back. He wants to talk to his family first.
So I remember you guys saying that the Marlies are down 2-0 to the Rochester Americans. However, you said that the series was a best of SEVEN, and that Joseph Woll was starting. He did. They lost 8-4 away from home, and the series was a best of FIVE, not seven. So they got swept. 3-0. End of season. Whoopsie.
Trading Matthews I believe would be great for both him and the team. He is a star in his own mind. What have he really done in the playoffs? In short a great wakeup call for him and the team.
If I were Toronto I dont think you trade one of the Core 4 for a star right away. I think you get some good depth pieces but really decent cap space. You make your move before the trade deadline, give yourself 10-12 million in space, see how other players are doing and if they can change your identity for the better and go from there.
I don't think they should trade for a star. They should trade for guys who are willing to do what it takes to win and play a style of game needed in the postseason.
@@BruceWayne-ee6vb yeah that’s fair. I’m not even saying get a star at the deadline I’m just saying don’t feel the need to “win” a trade now because you don’t the best package in return Get some cap space, If a star is what’s needed come trade deadline next spring, get a star, If it’s depth, get depth. Just give yourself the cap space to breathe and expect a payoff later instead of right away
We have hockey fans in Salt Lake. Maverick center has AHL, seats 12,000, and vivint/Delta can do hockey if a major league shows up. I’d be so down but there are probably more fans in Houston, etc.
The Utah Jazz home arena webpage says that the arena would hold 14,000 but probably would not need updates like Mullet did since an NBA team plays there already!! Also the Rod vs. Paul rivalry since Paul stripped Rod of the captaincy while coaching in Carolina is very SPICY IMO!!!
The saddest part about Dubas’ situation is that the players just effed off. Imagine your GM being the one who does the most work and thinks about team success the most. Really reminds me of the Bruce Boudreau situation where everyone likes him but no one (minus exceptions) really puts it out there for him.
As someone who lived in Phoenix for a large part of the last 10 years, the Yotes were villianized in the news by Glendale. I would have been shocked by a yes vote given all the broad coverage that was given to Glendale talking about what a liability the Yotes were.
Matthews plays with a soft mentality and is injury prone. Definitely don't ever trade him when you need to make huge changes to the culture and style of play. Pay him all the money and give him a no trade clause instead.
You guys really sound like people who don't have a clue what Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe is like. I lived in Scottsdale for 5 years and honestly Phoenix and the greater Phoenix area just isn't a sports town period, let alone a town that could support a hockey team. Like the Cardinals are pretty much the only team anyone cares about and the Diamond Backs and Suns only get love when they are good and are ignored otherwise. Also Jessie must be high to think Scottsdale is a top 5 NA city, it is a boring suburban city with the bulk of the populus being retirees who like to be in bed by 8PM.
1. If you're looking for the perfect GM you're going to be looking for a very long time. None of these guys are clairvoyent. 2. You need a lot of talent to overcome experience gap. Guy who's been working with the same staff for a decade going to be better on balance. I remember when Miami Heat coach Eric Spoelstra was a rookie ppl were calling for his resignation left and right. What happened? He got better. 3. Dubas made two mistakes. Not foreseeing the covid-cap and not recognizing the need for a backbone. IMO those things are really only visible with hindsight. Shutdown for obvious reasons. And curtailing headhunting should be player safety's job you don't expect the burden to be on the team to find a bigger, scarier goon. I think he's capable of adapting to the Leafs' current circumstances, and it would be a mistake to get rid of him.
As an Islanders fan I can say this about the Yotes , moving to a basketball ball arena is not the same. Someone best check on those sight lines beforehand! It was a total shitshow moving to Barclays.
Adam brought up the most important fact when talking about the Tempe arena deal. If you don't include the labor unions as part of the deal they will do everything in their power to crush you.
I can think of a million reasons why this deal would have fallen through, main one being this team perennially hemorrhages money, to say it failed because of a few unionized workers just doesn’t compute.
Calgary residents would have voted no, Alberta residents would have voted no to giving money to the Flames, and there is no damn way the public would ever support giving money to Billionaires now. The City Council is done in Calgary and the Premier is toast in the next election because of this. Billionaires believe people like them. I think if 100% of people voted in Toronto to give 100 million to the Leafs for a new arena, the No vote would win.
Quick note on the Amirov situation. My wife's sister had brain cancer and part of the process required small drilling into the cranial (as expected with any biopsies or surgery to the head). As soon as that was done, her ability to do any sort of contact based activity poses a risk to her life. As much as you hope for the kid, I think it's safe to say he's not going to play hockey again, certainly not anything beyond shinny on a pond with kids / family and even that might be too much of a risk.
When you're dealing with the brain, it's the only organ in your body you can't get a transplant for. And if you have cancer there, the likelihood of not needing some form of invasive surgery is probably low.
Excellent point by CJ "I don't believe that any of them (core 4) believe they have to be better" That is terrifying and its SO similar to the Canucks' players mentality, where they are all well aware of their individual talent level and are kind of just "good"with that, hoping 1 year it all magically works. ughhh
The King of Cobourg has graced us once again
The annual spring CJ episode 🎉
Long live the king!
CJ's from Cobourg? The more you know...xD
To sums up CJ’a point, and I’m saying this as a non-leafs fan:
The current Toronto Maple leafs feels more like a country club than a professional sports team with the way their core players act.
@@RG-lr4pk Tavares is at the head of that country club and he isn't going anywhere.
It's an interesting juxtaposition between previous Leafs teams. Say what you will about Lamoriello, that's a GM that command authority and hold players to some strong expectations regardless of who they are. If you look at him or Quinn or Ferguson (I'll ignore Burke since his tenure was so futile) or Lamoriello, they put equal value to the Gary Roberts or Matt Martins of the team as they do to any 1st liner. It's much easier to form a team identity and team culture that way. It's a culture that can over achieve as opposed to under achieve. There's none of that with the Leafs over the last few years, be it from Dubas, Keefe, or Tavares. They don't hold each other accountable, and they don't lean on each other. That's a group of individuals up there in Toronto as opposed to a team. I get it that Dubas cares for his players and blah blah blah, but there isn't anything resembling the kind of respect, expectations, and accountability that is required. Even though they are built very differently, all you got to do is look at the Lightning from 2020-2022, the Islanders from 2019-2021, and the current Hurricanes and Panthers teams and see the commonalities in team culture and accountability that is what is really missing in Toronto.
That Steven Dangle-led Toronto Zoo tour will be fire,
This was such a great episode. I love when CJ is on the show
He's short.
Love to you all from a diehard Yotes fan
Do we start a movement to get that 4 hour podcast CJ mentioned?!?!?! I'm all in!!
Beyond grateful to have such an insightful podcast about the best sport nobody cares about, someday!
Touching on the Coyotes situation. I live in Northern Glendale, AZ. Not a Coyotes fan, but a huge hockey fan who still supports the team so I can actually get the chance to see my team play in person once a year, that whole situation was doomed from the beginning. While I could not vote in that election because I don't live in Tempe, and was hopeful it would possibly pass just to ensure the team would stay around, the fact that they would not budge on the housing as being a part of the deal was a huge problem from the beginning. I know so many people who could vote in that election, also hockey fans who were not happy with that aspect of that plan or the fact that tax payers would have to foot the bill. From the very beginning that plan was doomed. I've always felt the Coyotes would succeed if they built an arena in the Northern Scottsdale area. The east side of the valley is where you'll find more hockey fans in general plus if they find a spot right off the 101 loop near the Taking Stick casino it would be tough to keep people away. Having gone to lots of games at Gila River Arena in Glendale the location was just not optimal. If they could figure out a way to get the team near the East valley I really feel they could succeed. Fingers crossed they figure something out 🤞
Ah yes. The annual tradition. Pod with CJ, that's when you know the Leafs officially bottled their season.
What Dubas was actually saying:
My family is sick of being harassed by psychotic Leafs fans and equally psychotic Leafs haters so I need to see how much more BS they're willing to put up with before deciding anything.
And don't pretend this has never happened, you know full well that people are scummy enough to jeer at his family.
@Charlie B oh shut up
That’s what the money is for! You have a dream job and you want people to feel sorry for you? Stress about feeding your family is real stress.
@charlieb308ight what a joke, what do woke people love to say. Check your privilege..
People shouldn't harass him but I get it.
Most people with as little success as him would be fired.
It's actually frustrating to see how little these people have to deal with reality.
Matthews is a ghost in the playoffs and will be getting a raise..........what a joke
@charlieb308 anyone surprised a soft gm built a soft ass team? Lawl
With the Treliving situation, I imagine it’s more that the Flames don’t want the Pens to have their drafting and scouting info because I’m sure Brad has a lot of that info in his head
I spent all 45 years of my life in Columbus. When I was a kid there was no youth hockey and no one knew how or where to watch the NHL. Hockey was non existent. However once private and public relationships were formed, they built the Arena and the surrounding Arena District to get an NHL expansion franchise (they did it after the voters voted NO on tax dollars being spent for an arena). Now 23 years later, the Arena District is a development success story, youth hockey has exploded, my two sons are 6 and 8 and it their favorite sport to follow. Local High School, College and women's hockey has continued to grow, we watch the NHL every night. Good lord... now I even love to watch sdpn. This is the generational long play to grow the sport, that is why I believe there so many untapped markets in the U.S. that would be amazing, it just takes time. It is amazing to me that we now have several local kids who have made it to the NHL, since the Jackets first arrived. I just wish the hockey gods would bless us with draft lottery success!
Living in metro Detroit, have really enjoyed these podcasts, since local radio never talks hockey. The most popular station in town is all football, with a little basketball and baseball thrown in. Have been having playoff withdrawal in the last 3 days since there has been no nightly games, and this fills the need for the most up to date hockey fix.
Exactly midnight in Vienna, Austria as this episode was released. Who needs sleep right?
The issue with the "taxpayer money" thing is they're going to have to pay taxes to fix/replace that dump ANYWAY since it's about to be contaminating their water table.
The geezers in Tempe is more than ok with leaving it undeveloped and pass the cost to someone else after they die.
Only "taxpayer money" in the deal was for legitimate government functions like utilities and roads (100 million in total). Half of which was offset by the city not having to pay the clean up of the landfill.
It was legit one of the best deals a city could ask for.
Let’s go CJ always provides insider tea. Love this tradition.
I remember when the Raptors won, Kyle had an interview where he talked about how it took Messai trading Demar for Kyle to really see that his way of playing was too predictable and not good enough to win. And it wasnt because neither were good enough to be on a championship team, it was that because they were together for soooo long and had gotten so comfortable, he was blind to other possibilities
Chris!
So much SDPness in this episode!
"the son took all of what? 5 mins?"
Jesse burned Steve so bad and I feel it deserves more recognition
Unbearded Jesse reminds me of Handsome Squidward
Uncanny
Dubas wants to stay, his wife and kids are pissed he's working to much. Clear as day.
Welcome to getting in a relationship with a hockey GM. Guy is making his wife millions no sympathy for those people.
One of my favorite shows of the year.😢😂
I hope that Dubas stays on as GM. we definitely need to mix up the core 4
To ask ppl to feel sorry for him is a joke. Stress about feeding your family or how you’re going to pay your bills is real stress. This kid doesn’t appreciate the dream job that’s pays millions. Quote steve. That’s what the money is for
@@CJ-oj8om That’s got some real “I’m 14 and this deep” energy. Like that is edgy as hell, but it’s kind of sad.
@NHL 2K10 When Dubas was hired Leafs finished 30th overall. Following year 14th. Steadily moving upward until 4th overall last two seasons. 🙌
Was thinking of the Tavares contract situation. He gets paid most of his salary as a signing bonus which for a team that needs to make the cap floor pretty intriguing. Tavares will only be owed $7.9 Million after July 1st for any team that trades for him. Obviously he would need to waive to make it happen but it actually doesn't sound as crazy. The team gets $22 Million worth of cap fill for $7.9 Million real money
STUCK WITH PAJAMA BOY!
@Charlie B When's Buffalo making the playoffs?
@Charlie B 12 years no playoffs. Next year 12 times... maybe another 12 times.
@@cowetascore8476 DO you seriously still not realize that that was just a blanket...?
Tavares is not leaving unless he wants to.
Even if this Arena vote was held last November, or even next November, where they'd get the highest potential turnout, that Arena would've been voted down. These kinds of votes are almost never approved by voters and are almost always done unilaterally through legislatures/committees/boards/etc. unless the owner is paying for it themselves.
Kudos to CJ for not blending into the studio with his attire 😂😂
These shows are always awesome to watch.
Which one is worse? Oilers took a step back, leafs took a step forward. Success isn’t linear, but one is better than the other
god i love the CJ episodes so much
George Russell in charge of the F1 drivers chat. Kicked out Mazepin.
Great content in this one gents!
So, when does Steve go on the CJ show for an episode?
moving the game to Utah will do wonders for the league's stalwart position on Pride Night.
Actually, the original Scottsdale deal had actually been approved...but Ellman got the sweetheart deal from Glendale and backed out of Scottdale. America West Arena had 5,000 obstructed seats (you literally couldn't see anything from the blue line down), and TOOK OUT the ice plant in the building in the recent remodel. There's no way the Coyotes play downtown Phoenix. There's a LOT of distaste in Maricopa County for arena deals due to political shenanigans for building America West Arena and the (formerly) Bank One Ballpark.
Thank you for the specifics...also Glendale, the city, was subsidizing the Yotes to the tune of 30-50 million...a year. Don't blame people for not trusting companies / politicians.
@@stephenphillips6245 Oh, for sure. The AWA/BoB situations started this whole thing. AWA gets built, public outraged they're using taxpayer dollars to build an arena for Jerry Colangelo. Public referendum passes...no new arenas with public money in Maricopa county unless put before the voters. So the lawmakers created a special "taxing district" that org-chart wise wasn't IN Maricopa County,, but obviously was physically in MC and they built BoB anyways. Voters were pissed. There are still people that refuse to attend Diamondbacks games because of it. The voting demographics of this Tempe thing...ARE THOSE PEOPLE.
Where CJ's view on Dubas falls apart is that he expects us to believe that in not extending Dubas, Rogers and Bell made a mistake. Really, are we to believe Rogers and Bell are capable of an error? *cough*
I'm trying to think of a deal I'd offer from the Habs for one of the core 4, but it just doesn't make sense for us to pay what other teams would be willing to pay.
It's a hard trade for any team because they have to be in their win now mode OR just about to get there. And then does that team have 10 million cap space? Are they going to decimate an already winning team for that star player they covet? Has to be the right trade partner. But I'm moving Marner for a good gritty forward and a good defenseman and 2 top prospects
Na. We have too many wingers and need roster room more than anything. Let the kids play.
Chris Johnston
Well done gentlemen!
Cheers!
Look at the North American economy. Everyone is looking at their paychecks and living situation and not worried where some millionaire hockey players and billionaire owners are going to play.
I enjoy the prospective of Chris Johnston .
Some logic also some frank honesty with some speculation. Kyle did say that last year and during the season heading more towards trade deadline nothing was off the table.
With the comment of complacency or assuming they the highly paid players wouldn't be traded , Who has had made them feel that they it wouldn't happen to any of them.
Dubas changed 30% of his Roster at the Deadline, including the St. Louis trade...giving up a 1st 2nd and 3rd for two players who were a combined minus 30. Add the goalie situation to the lack of cap, prospects, or draft picks...one has to wonder why he's even being considered for an extention.
He let McCann go and kept Kerfoot. Dubas now wants ppl to feel sorry for him and his stress. Get out of here, stressing about feeding your family that’s real stress. get out of here dubas
Best show of the year
CJ is an absolute beauty, what a solid human being who's also unreal at his job
Nice seeing all 6 of you! 2 lights this time. 😂
Let's just name the two lights. Any suggestions? I'd go with Darcy on the left and Tucker on the right. I think that works as they're in your face and are hard to ignore 😂
In Salt Lake we have an Echl Team that plays out of the Maverik Center in West Valley City, one of the Suburbs.
It seats 10100 and has nearly sold that out for an Echl club a couple times over the last few years.
Vivint Arena is listed as 14000 for hockey and is right downtown.
I went to the Utah Grizzlies game the night the Stanely Cup was in the building and there was over 9800 in the building. They're the Avalanche affiliate. SLC is rather spread out and the whole area's population is about 1.3 million.
Phoenix is 4.8 million.
I'd love to see an NHL club here, but I have no idea if it would work.
Also even though the Maverik center works for the echl cub, it's dated, built in 96 and I don't think has ever had a major renovation. It was used in the 2002 Olympics. If an NHL club was moving in they'd go to Vivint, not the Maverik
It’s crazy how much the dangle podcast reaches out to. Your from Utah and theres no nhl team and still listening
You know what would be a really good topic for Agent provocateur is going back and diving into why the former teams of the 90's werent able to keep their teams going beyond the normal excuse of "financial issues" and looking at the canadian teams that were rumored to possibly be moving around that time as well (like the oilers almost moving to houston)
One of those rare shows with only 3 topics 😂
Numbers in Sweden, Finland and etc going down is due to many things.
1. Time zones and super late games. People with jobs, kids, or even just a functional sleep cycle can't stay up till 3-4 am to watch the EARLY games till the end. Nobody is gonna buy any merch for a league they don't / can't watch. This leads me to point two.
2. Nowhere to buy actual merch except for an online store that nobody ever hears of, which is also a huge loss of an advertisement opportunity.
3. Streaming services here in Sweden have gone from 15-20 USD per month to almost 50 dollars per MONTH. It's absolutely insane and not a lot of people are going to pay for that to watch when there are free illegal streams.
4. Lack of advertisement. The only commercials I've personally seen for the NHL is during the week of the stadium series here in Sweden, and whilst already watching the games.
5. Having talented domestic leagues. A lot of hockey fans are more than happy just following the SHL, LIIGA, or KHL.
I\m sure there's more that i'm missing but these are things that comes to mind straight away
the lack of player accountability has been mind boggling to watch. i could actually feel this coming back when Keefe walked back his comments in the Fall
Dubas is officially gone. I have mixed feelings about it. I think he did his best but remained too loyal to some people, especially Keefe. At the end of the day it’s a results driven business and he hasn’t delivered. Maybe as leaf fans we’ve become so accustomed to failure that we see dubas as a mild success, even though it hasn’t been.
If having John Tavares costs Marner not being a life long Leaf, that is a huge failure
Marner isn't worth 11m regardless. It's a moot point. He needs to go even if JT was never signed.
to clarify: we're trading mitch...the guy who PKs, makes everyone better and keeping matthews who wants 15M for 3 years and is injury prone?........yaba daba fuckin doo.
Feel bad for the hardcore coyotes fans and players.
Please continue with that it really helps
you mean Auston Matthews?
@@marc-antoinemarcoux697 if you think Austons going there, especially after last nights news you’re either delusional, or beating a dead meme into the ground.
@@bdbdkdfotbrveiw someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed lmao. Chill out
Weird how many people think a guy handed the most talented core drafted in team history who messed it up in negotiations with them and Tavares deserves to stay. Crazy talk
Marner to Seattle, I truly believe this would benefit both teams greatly. Seattle has the consistent depth that Toronto needs, with no huge contracts. And for Seattle, they would get a true #1 player, and although he would be in a larger role, because of how different it is than Toronto with much less pressure, I believe he can step up she push a team through big moments better there than Toronto.
Marner's too soft and heartless to play Seattle's game
Maybe being in a space where he’s not as comfortable will make him adapt his game. As CJ said maybe he’s too comfortable and doesn’t think he has to change as long as he’s in Toronto.
That's if Toronto is smart either Marner or Matthews goes or both for some key depth pieces that they need. Defense wise they need it and they need that grit that can show up in the playoffs.
You don't trade stars for depth, full stop
@@joellizotte5476 I feel like Nylander would adapt to the Kraken game a bit better imo.
Dubass built a top heavy team and then was forced to go cheap on the other areas. Defence, goaltending. You don't give 4 forwards such a huge piece of the pie. Two forwards, one stud defenseman and a top notch goalie!
Um he didn't have to offer the top heavy contracts well before they those players hadn't accomplished anything .
He may have inherited a bad contract, but he also made some not so positive trades , gave up futures for rentals, and able to retain any of them because of 4 players making 50 million then added another this year
See, I agree with CJ about if you trade the Core 4 away or not. I don't want the Leafs to make a move simply because they feel they need to, if you're trading away a superstar talent like Marner, you need to get at least a star-level player in return (e.g. a Nico Hischier level of player), plus whatever prospect/pick/rotation player combination comes along.
Whether Dubas is in charge, or someone else, I hope Leafs management makes sure that they're not taken for dummies this offseason.
@Ktownie city
Parayko is a Stanley Cup winner on a long, team-friendly deal.
Marner is crazily overpaid, and he walks as a UFA pretty soon.
I'd say it's at least Marner, a 1st and Knies for Parayko.
(That would be my starter in negotiations if I'm somehow STL GM)
This is sarcasm right?
@@iliaponomarev1624 You truly hate the Leafs, don't you...
Growing up an Oilers fan as a kid. Once Gretzky was traded. And when the Doug Gilmour trade to Toronto happened. I've been a die-hard Leafs fan since. Hope every year. At this point. Who really cares what happens. Trades, management change, whatever. Damn you Cliff Fletcher for making me a fan of this cursed team!
Yea the price for a house in Ontario is more than homes Britain on an island. Makes sense.
It is crazy how time moves/feels during the playoffs. Even if a sweep happens, it feels so fast but also like a lifetime.
On what basis does this panel evaluate the performance of the team, the coaching staff, & the management? If you have a consistent track record of failure in the playoffs, how could anybody claim that you are the best GM in the league?
Of course, MLSE interest is on the revenue not winning, and they are doing an excellent job on that front.
I love how small the headphones look on Adam
Alright so I’m a Florida panthers fan, and I was first here for Steve’s pain. Then I realized I loved the boys talking hockey and now here I am 4-5 episodes later…invest in y’all’s future. I’m so confused, but am loving the hockey content. 😂🙌🏻
Also a Panthers fan, but I got brought here by Hat Picks and Dang-Its (The BEST day of the week!) And while Steve is very funny as Slaphappy McSad, I hate it when we can't both have nice things.
I appreciate them talking about how the experience of being a Panthers fan was really bad for a long time, both because the team was bad and because we were the butt of every joke and the subject of every relocation rumor, and that now it feels like those days are over for a long time, if not for good. I wish the Coyotes could have gotten that happily-ever-after, too.
They trade Marner to Chicago, and Kane goes back. Your top line for the Hawks in Marner-Bedard-Kane. Let that sink in.
Jesse looks like Dave Chappelle's character in The Nutty Professor 😂
CJ is the man! CJ, don’t know if you read any of the fan comments but do you have any info on pittsburghs gm situation? I’m glad hex is gone but the draft, grandland contract, petry, there are a lot of things that need done. Not to mention the pens owning the 14th overall pick, probably the highest we’re going to draft since the Crosby era started I would imagine.
Kyle Dubas is too overwhelmed and obviously too indecisive to come back . You can’t be half in. He has to go for this reason alone
1:34:17 to Steve's question about the voter demographics.
It's quite simple; the youth in the US do not often vote on these sort of local referendum votes, because these issues are not the larger, national issues the youth in the US actually care about.
That Tempe situation is a bit of a disaster, a ton of misinformation and Coyotes ownership flubbing the campaign. The Tempe residents wouldn't even be paying any future money into the project, it's all tax money the city already had.
Very nice shot at Justin Bourne there CJ 1:03:55 love that haha
Leafs gonna hire the Italian version of Ted Lasso.
Dubas was just saying he didn't want to put his family in a difficult position by publicly declaring that he wanted to be back. He wants to talk to his family first.
36:25: From the day the Panthers were created with Bobby Clarke as GM, I've called them the "Florida Flyers" (and I'm a Flyers fan...).
So I remember you guys saying that the Marlies are down 2-0 to the Rochester Americans.
However, you said that the series was a best of SEVEN, and that Joseph Woll was starting.
He did. They lost 8-4 away from home, and the series was a best of FIVE, not seven.
So they got swept. 3-0. End of season. Whoopsie.
Trading Matthews I believe would be great for both him and the team. He is a star in his own mind. What have he really done in the playoffs? In short a great wakeup call for him and the team.
There needs to be a Bob Cole translator. Say anything, and you get the passage in the Bob Cole voice.
Average house price in Phoenix is nearly half a million.
The Guest was great
Referendums are not super publicized. A lot of people probably didn't even know it was happening.
I wish they could get ad dollars from cigarette companies.
Vivint arena in Salt Lake City is fitted for NHL games. The Kings play one preseason game there each year
Clayton Keller seems like someone that they could trade a core piece for
The biggest mistake the Leafs could do is trade Mitch
If I were Toronto I dont think you trade one of the Core 4 for a star right away. I think you get some good depth pieces but really decent cap space. You make your move before the trade deadline, give yourself 10-12 million in space, see how other players are doing and if they can change your identity for the better and go from there.
I don't think they should trade for a star. They should trade for guys who are willing to do what it takes to win and play a style of game needed in the postseason.
@@BruceWayne-ee6vb yeah that’s fair. I’m not even saying get a star at the deadline I’m just saying don’t feel the need to “win” a trade now because you don’t the best package in return
Get some cap space, If a star is what’s needed come trade deadline next spring, get a star, If it’s depth, get depth.
Just give yourself the cap space to breathe and expect a payoff later instead of right away
@@evanstewart5040 They should offer a trade for Keller and Crouse from the yotes, or Keller and Hayton.
We have hockey fans in Salt Lake. Maverick center has AHL, seats 12,000, and vivint/Delta can do hockey if a major league shows up. I’d be so down but there are probably more fans in Houston, etc.
The Utah Jazz home arena webpage says that the arena would hold 14,000 but probably would not need updates like Mullet did since an NBA team plays there already!! Also the Rod vs. Paul rivalry since Paul stripped Rod of the captaincy while coaching in Carolina is very SPICY IMO!!!
The offensive starts from the D men. That is still the big problem
The saddest part about Dubas’ situation is that the players just effed off. Imagine your GM being the one who does the most work and thinks about team success the most. Really reminds me of the Bruce Boudreau situation where everyone likes him but no one (minus exceptions) really puts it out there for him.
Dubas NEEDS to finish what he started, they are so close. He is the best man for the job.
“WE WANT KYLE” “WE WANT KYLE” “WE WANT KYLE”
As someone who lived in Phoenix for a large part of the last 10 years, the Yotes were villianized in the news by Glendale. I would have been shocked by a yes vote given all the broad coverage that was given to Glendale talking about what a liability the Yotes were.
@@pjpredhomme7699 never said I was a Yotes fan. I said I lived in Phoenix. 💩
Damn take this L
Matthews plays with a soft mentality and is injury prone. Definitely don't ever trade him when you need to make huge changes to the culture and style of play. Pay him all the money and give him a no trade clause instead.
mind boggling
Soft mentality is Marner
Definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting different results.
You guys really sound like people who don't have a clue what Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe is like. I lived in Scottsdale for 5 years and honestly Phoenix and the greater Phoenix area just isn't a sports town period, let alone a town that could support a hockey team. Like the Cardinals are pretty much the only team anyone cares about and the Diamond Backs and Suns only get love when they are good and are ignored otherwise. Also Jessie must be high to think Scottsdale is a top 5 NA city, it is a boring suburban city with the bulk of the populus being retirees who like to be in bed by 8PM.
1. If you're looking for the perfect GM you're going to be looking for a very long time. None of these guys are clairvoyent.
2. You need a lot of talent to overcome experience gap. Guy who's been working with the same staff for a decade going to be better on balance. I remember when Miami Heat coach Eric Spoelstra was a rookie ppl were calling for his resignation left and right. What happened? He got better.
3. Dubas made two mistakes. Not foreseeing the covid-cap and not recognizing the need for a backbone. IMO those things are really only visible with hindsight. Shutdown for obvious reasons. And curtailing headhunting should be player safety's job you don't expect the burden to be on the team to find a bigger, scarier goon.
I think he's capable of adapting to the Leafs' current circumstances, and it would be a mistake to get rid of him.
As an Islanders fan I can say this about the Yotes , moving to a basketball ball arena is not the same. Someone best check on those sight lines beforehand! It was a total shitshow moving to Barclays.
Adam brought up the most important fact when talking about the Tempe arena deal. If you don't include the labor unions as part of the deal they will do everything in their power to crush you.
I can think of a million reasons why this deal would have fallen through, main one being this team perennially hemorrhages money, to say it failed because of a few unionized workers just doesn’t compute.
Steve is the best
Calgary residents would have voted no, Alberta residents would have voted no to giving money to the Flames, and there is no damn way the public would ever support giving money to Billionaires now. The City Council is done in Calgary and the Premier is toast in the next election because of this. Billionaires believe people like them. I think if 100% of people voted in Toronto to give 100 million to the Leafs for a new arena, the No vote would win.