Repairing a Williams Grand Prix Pinball - The Most Complex EM Of All Time?????
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2019
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I grew up in the digital age... my dad is an IT guy and my stepdad is a web admin, so I was surrounded by computers even as a kid... so it's EXTREMELY FASCINATING to me to see how they did these sorts of things before computer chips and digital logic. I can't help but think of them as "analog video games", since I knew about video games before I knew about pinball, haha. I know that's kind of backwards but that's how human minds work, we compare new things to things we already know. Very cool video! It's good to know there are still people who also think these things are fascinating and worth preserving.
Thanks for watching Pogostix, we appreciate it! Yes we love getting them going again, they just need a little help and they get there!
Your channel RULES!!!! It always gets me nostalgic along with turning on my machines and playing them! Thanks for taking time to explain it and then play the machines(great format) Where do i get price lists? I love Ems .You seem to have the most whip job ever!!!
You can check out all our games for sale on www.LyonsArcade.com... a lot of times though the game has already been sold by the time the video comes out. This video was shot three months ago, for instance!
Ron it is so good to see you with this pin. I will be at a friend's house tomorrow fixing one of these, so at least three views is me. I'll be sure to get the spinners working really well. As always, thanks and keep up the great work.
BTW on FB someone asked how to learn to fix pinball machines, and 2 of the 10 answers was "Watch Joe's Classic Video Games" videos on TH-cam."
LOL That's great! We appreciate folks watching us as much as possible.
My dad worked in an EM telephone central office in Newark NJ years ago. Seeing the guts of these reminded me of the unbelievably complex systems he maintained.
I never thought about that but I'll bet that's very similar to how those old switchboards and things worked....
When I was a kid I went to Kennywood every year and I was look forward to playing Grand Prix Pinball. Good memories.
Very cool! How long did they have it up and running there?
We had this machine growing up in the 80's! Holy smokes! Now I know why we couldn't find someone who could fix it back then! I remember one guy came to fix and left and never came back!
Thanks for the great videos on the Grand Prix. Very helpful and informative!
Thanks Bill, I'm glad you enjoyed them!
Awesome game! I'm really looking forward to seeing this one upa nd running.
Coming Soon :)
Fascinating lesson, I am somewhat new to electromechanical pinball machines so your explanations were helpful and perfect. Many thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it, John! See you on the next one.
Just picked one of these up and will be working through it soon. Appreciate your videos
Hope you get it going! It's a fun game.
Wow, for being an older unit from a simpler time, it's pretty complex and detailed, Liked
Yeah it really is!
It's a mighty complex endeavor and I'm ready for part 2.
shared this video on EM pinball Face book page!!! good job!
Thanks Elvis, we appreciate it! See you on the next one (we're filming some now :) )
@@LyonsArcade GREAT!!!
Awesome video! I can't wait for the next videos. :)
Coming Soon, Mighty Squirrel... Coming Soon.
I always wanted to learn what's inside of an EM. They look way more intimidating than what you make it out to be. I should get one and learn.
They look bad but when you start breaking it down they're very simple machines, all the switches are either on or off, and the schematics show you how everything's connected. You can ignore all the lightbulbs.... it's basically just a bunch of wires going from switch to switch and it comes down to which switch should be on, or off, and isn't :)
Great pinball! Lots going on!
Definitely!
Very nice vid. Thank you!
man, that's not only inside a pinball machine, that's Art!
WIring like we learned it haha always eyecandy for me to see! ;)
Yeah that's my favorite part of working on them too :)
I can’t wait to see how this one goes. Looks about as messed up as the stern disco I just bought. It will be a labour of love.
Thank you for watching Daniel! Good luck with your Disco!
Once I worked out of all problems on the Liberty bell and Grand Prix I never had any problems these games just need to be Played rock solid.
Yes I agree they just want to be played, keeps everything clean and working!
I don't own a pinball machine, yet, but I am having a blast watching your videos. Have you ever made a video showing how you clean the switches on a pinball machine? I know it might not be a long video but it would be useful to some of us that hopefully would get a pinball machine.
I've shown it in several but can't remember which off the top of my head, basically we use a really worn out file to clean the dirt off the contacts.
Good luck with the cleanup process. It takes a while, but it sure does make a difference.
Absolutely. The next video is ONE HOUR LONG!
This is a great series. I feel like I've struck gold. Thanks Joe.
Thanks for watching Dennis, it's a really cool game!
@@LyonsArcade I'm rewatching the entire series so that next time I have a chance to work on it, I will be an expert! Yes, it is a really cool machine. I rescued it from a previous landlord more than 35 years ago for $25. He put it in the backyard under a plastic sheet. I knew it wouldn't live long like that. It weighs a ton!
50Hz is the UK frequency as we run at 230V ac. Used to be 240V but the European Union standardised it to 230V across the zone.
I've heard similar things in the past but never understood why it's all different.
@@LyonsArcade Try Japan - they have a history of multiple wierd voltages! As for US being 60Hz I would assume it has something to do with your lower 110V AC, I guess that the extra 10Hz helps deliver extra power than if it were at 50Hz. 110V is a MUCH safer voltage than our 230V, which is why construction site equipment here is normally also 110V and uses large step-down trasformers to run drills etc. But we homeowners just get fried with our 230V death-dealing stuff if you haven't replaced your old wire fuesboards with modern RCCD breaker ones which supposedly make it damn near impossible to electrocute yourself. That sounds like a challange to me............... Love the channel - Would have loved to work at your place!
This is a amazing Machine I had one. What is really cool Liberty bell used the same Field layout I all so had that Title which I saved from the dump from my Sons friend everyone loved that Game :0)
I've got to track down a Liberty Bell!
Wow , the spools on the playfield look fairly new. Indeed a lot of relays. But great machine
If you think about it... there's no room for them to add anything else!
this 1 gonna be a challrenge :) thank u joe x
You know we only upload the videos Hope after we're done :)
@@LyonsArcade true ;) say
I remember playing grand Prix in my local arcade.
And there was a short somewhere and when the ball went into the center hole I could hit the flippers and gain extra points.
And get a lot of free games for not much effort.
Yeah I felt guilty for cheating but in my 12 year old mind I sticking to the man..
Free games for me! F the system!
Yup! You were so Punk back then..... LOL
Yes the main difference between 50 and 60 Hz is that the 50 Hz transformer has a larger core so it doesn't get saturated with the lower frequency. In SMPS's you can have really small transformers for the power throughput because they would operate at a high frequency.
Nice game it will work at the end 👍💪
Thank you Danijel, I think we'll get it going too :)
I remember working on those units, yup!!, they were complex for "electro mechanical"/ relay logic. also the size of a 50 hz transformer is larger due to the reason that the "magnetic coupling" between primary/secondary windings needs more iron to induce the voltages from primary to secondary windings. also , a transformer running on 50hz has higher "eddie" currents in the iron core of the transformer, causing excessive heat generated in the core
That makes sense Gregory, thank you!
I think it is great that the "OLD" technology still has a place today, and it is not taking up space in a "LANDFILL" somewhere. the relay logic pinball machines have a real" charm" to them, unlike the electronic pinball machines that took the place of the electro mechanical machines. I have a real fondness for the "TUBE" amplifiers in the "OLD" juke boxes also!!!
The bill of parts on that pin must have been huge
At the end of the 70's when these were coming out, Pinball was killing it and the games were very full, they even had licensed games like Captain Fantastic, the games were very loaded!
The general rule is the higher the mains frequency the less mass you need in the transformer for the same wattage output, which is why switch mode psu's are so much smaller
Thanks Bryan we appreciate the info!
Superb video, Ron - thanks for it! Your EM repair videos are my favorite. Question, would it be possible to do a little mini video of what your cleaning process is when you clean the relays, etc? For time, no doubt, you skip over that part always, but I'm right at the moment in my learning curve where seeing that would be a good confirmation. I mean I think I'm doing it right, but everyone skips that part in the vids. I just got a Gtlb EL DORADO which needs a complete going over, which I'm looking forward to. I got it to work (the play is such fun!), but it complains just enough to remind me that it needs some TLC and a once over. Thanks again for your videos.
I've shown in it several videos but I can't think of which ones off the top of my head! Basically I use a small file that's pretty much worn out, if you use anything too strong it'll screw up the points. Then if you look at the relay when it's unpowered, each switch will be closed or open, and each should change it's state when the relay is pulled in by hand... only other thing really is to make sure the screws are tight!
By the way that El Dorado, if you search my chanell we had a Taget Alpha which is the same playfield!
Joe's Classic Video Games, awesome, thx! Pretty much what I’ve been doing so I should be good. I guess one fears it should be less easy to do! I’ve watched all your EM vids but they all blur in my mind at the moment, but I’ll go back. Thx for heads up on Target Alpha.
The most important thing is, and as simple as it is to understand... if the switch is closed, it should open, and if it's open it should close. It literally all revolves around that. The old school repair guys would fix the machines without the schematics based on that idea, the logic really is that simple.
@@LyonsArcade Brilliant, thank you again. I'll let you know how it goes.
Watching you talk thru the bonus setup on the Grand Prix and how Williams came up with their genius way of making it all work....anyway, I noticed your schematics for this game, Grand Prix was on your computer and correct me if I am wrong but you have it as a PDF file? is that correct? Do you import your schematics as pdf files? Curious how you have this working etc.... By the way, you did a pretty good job of explaining the bonus situation on this game.I was right along with you and then ...for a few moments I would get lost as hell with your instructions but never fear, wouldn't be that long and I would be right back with your blow by blow instructions and moved along with you as you kept moving thru the switch's and Score Motor etc.....don't ever STOP taking the time to go thru such things as what you did on this game. There are those out here and we do appreciate the time you take to make sure that we understand and that slow is okay most of the time. The channels on here that has to do with pin's etc...most of the time, go thru stuff so fast that they just will NOT take the time to let others stay on board with their information. I am going to start a channel , for just right now, for EM games that are a bit different. That is, I have a pitch and bat EM that has all the mech , etc..etc. in the head and on the inside of the back door of the head. The cabinet has to be one of the lightest I have ever picked up ....but it has metal rail's for the routing of the balls so the reason for all the mech etc..in the head. But I figured if I do EM oddity then I wouldn't was others time especially when there are channels such as yours. Your channel has saved my neck on repairs MANY MANY times.... thanks!!!!!
Thanks for watching Steven, yeah some people don't like that I go slow but that's how I like doing it :) See you on the next video!
yes i have noticed early pinballs games used AC flippers, pop bumpers, kickers but switched over to DC flippers etc. I was wonder if someone knew of an answer as to why
I agree. All pins are special. Well maybe not gottlieb dmd pins.
LOL Those are some of my favorites!
My favorite em! Couldn’t find a nice one so I got a liberty bell which is 2 player.
Have you ever had a Williams Olympic pinball repair video? I’ve searched and couldn’t find one. Mine is kicking my ass and I can’t figure it out.
I haven’t had that one but it should be similar
The advance unit is messing with me on it. It’s a multi step in 2 directions. Maybe someone will bring one in so I can see it. I’ve watched a ton of your repair videos and learned a ton. This one I just can’t figure out
keep doing god’s work 👍👍 youre awesome 👍
Thanks Mark!
Yes -- Please do a bingo machine video!
One of these days, I will for sure. Just depends on when I get to them, I own a few, a Miss Universe, Miss America, Bonanza, Beach Beauty, and a Bally Venice.
JOES CLASSIC, The flippers in this pinball has a DC rectifier, any reasons why they switched from an AC flipper solenoid to a DC flipper Solenoid?
It makes the coils that are DC powered faster. Some of the companies started using them on the pop bumpers, the kickers, and the flippers or some of each... something about the DC makes them fire quicker which makes them stronger of course.
It's been a few years since you made this. Did you ever have to replace or redesign the self-made tension spring for the match unit? I've just bought a Grand Prix (Williams) and it's missing that exact spring on a spinner unit. I'm going to copy your invention... unless you came up with a better idea in the interval. :)
Can you do a video on how to repair the spinners?
The count for the score on mine only will go to 10000 on the right side.
10a323 spring is available online for $10!
Very nice :)
Glad I sold mine working for $350 before it broke.
I am trying to touch up the race car on the sides of the Grand Prix box but cannot tell if the race car is some shade of orange, or if it is a faded red. I have looked at other Grand Prix machines and it seems that some of them have red race cars and others have orange race cars. Can you give me any thoughts as to what the color should be? I guess that the color blue is a navy blue. Thanks for any help
Sure thing Marilyn, I'm not sure if you saw it but we always go to www.IPDB.com and look at the original flyers, because it gives you a good idea of what the original machine would have looked like. It was a red, likely most of them have faded by now which is why you're seeing many that are orange. Here's the flyer:
www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1072&picno=4226&zoom=1
The problems you're having with that Grand Prix machine are practically identical to the problems I'm having with both of mine 😟 glad to see I'm not bananas
Stay tuned :)
Oh I'm taking notes 😉
good arcade
Thanks Wilder!
Thats what I call an "electrician's nightmare".
It's got a lot going on but once you break it down into it's different systems it's not so bad!
That's NOT a transformer...it's an OFFICE BUILDING!!!
LOL It was pretty huge!
Some of the European games had larger score reels.
That should work fine...............
I was like what the heck is em and solid state?....
Hmm electromechanical and computerised.
Oh makes sense.
I've heard that Williams OXO from 1973 takes the crown for most complex because of the whole tic tac toe logic going on.
That very well may be, I'll have to check one of those out! Did you ever play a "Hot Line" ? Old school EM that actually spells letters on the playfield, in the rollovers, that you have to score. So they spell "H"... and after you get all those, they relight but now spell "O"... then "T"... it's amazing.
@@LyonsArcade I haven't played one, but I know which one you are referring to :)
You were absolutely correct about the transformer.
I've actually not seen transformers in general use labelled with the frequency.
They are coils of wire. 60Hz in will equal 60Hz out.
Voltage is the only critical thing.
The motor definition is correct to. Speed will vary with cycles.
I would agree with you regarding the cleaning. Its a vintage machine. You can go overboard, but I like a device to show it's history.
Thanks Brendan, you and I think a lot alike!
Wow, you never told us what was going on outside! :(
There's a 12 step program next door, and the people are always outside cutting up they're pretty harmless....
Hhhmmm interesting every one keeps saying that the Elton John pinball machine was last produced EM before it all went Solid State?
Will have to look into that then.
And EM's are complex it is all switches and riveted fiber board in these things.
I still marvel at how the pinball manufactures even made everything work with out electronics boards.
It is like early computers of the 40s and 50s though compared to today a 50s era computer would take up the whole room were as we have a computer in our phones now that fits in our pockets and could control a space rocket if we wanted to.
Oh and I think I might do a video on the TV and Radio book my folks got me for my birthday when I got it I was like really some books.
But then I looked in it and was like oh wow this is like how to make your own stuff and basically telling the repair guy to F-Off and do it yourself. xD
I kind of want to make one of the small things in the book but a lot of the stuff in the 50s had light bulbs and tubes in them you can still get them but not as aboundent as they once were.
I've seen those books before they're pretty cool.... yes it's amazing how they made these games do their thing before the PCB's came out, hey check out a game called 'Hot Line', they literally had it spell out words and stuff on the playfield, with just relays and lights!
I have one of these machines that I got from my father when he passed. If anyone reads this necro comment. I would like to see what it will cost me to get it repaired and refurbished. It is in pretty poor condition. Some stuff works, all of the paint is bad, on the box, glass, and playfield.
Hey stop by my place and bring your tools .
Sparky I just came by and knocked on the door, and some dude in a towel answered. I left!
jesus christ! you can see why they went to microprocessors!!
Yeah this one is pretty much the most packed in game I've ever seen, literally that playfield alone was heavy as hell.