How Do Volume Spacers Affect MTB Suspension? | GMBN Does Science
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2020
- What exactly is a volume spacer and how does it affect the performance and feel of mountain bike suspension? To find out, Neil went to the woods with some tokens to send some hucks to flat and ride some MTB trails to see what happens!
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How many volume spacers do you run?
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How many volume spacers do you run?
0
as many as possible so i can run the suspension softer than normal
The recon doesn't take any🙄... I run compression damping instead
I just added my first two and lowered the pressure 16% for a more-supple-but-still-supportive ride. I'm diggin' it! ;)
@@harperodonnell5989 softer?.. I thought the downside of adding spacers is that you're losing in softness?..
Whoever directed / edited the video did a great job of filming that drop. Very dramatic and actually looked big on the screen. So essentially, shout out to the backroom staff for their top quality work
You forgot about the other half of the bike!
F/r volume spacers work the same!
They work the same for F/R, except that it takes considerably longer to fit a spacer into a rear shock than your fork
@@emmanuelnocete135 You should check out DVO. Takes even less time with their slap on spacers. 🎉
@@emmanuelnocete135he kept saying this was for the feont fork to stay high in the travel so you dont feel like youre going over the bars. So with it being about the front why would he go over the back when hes a TH-camr and that could be other video concepts through out all styles of riding?
Thanks Neil & Doddy! This is by far the most clearly illustrated explanation of just what kind of differences we can expect from changing the air volume spacers in our forks. Watching the actual resulting travel, along with Neil's comments on ride-feel, really pulled the all the concepts together. I'm a medium size, (172lbs.) not too aggressive rider and never even get close to bottoming out. I can't wait to see what my stock FOX 34 has inside!
Qaqs
Have been messing around with tokens and setup on a new Fox Factory fork for a few weeks not and this video had the bit of info I needed. More tokens + less air ended up being my magic combination.
I ended up with 3 spacers in my Fox Floats, massive improvement in performance of the fork & bike. Wish I tried it earlier. 💪😎
Enjoyed the video. I think a blind test would be very interesting. There could be a bit of a bias knowing how many spacers are in the fork.
Although that would be the case for every human being on earth these guys live on bikes so id say they can pretty well feel it better than you and i.
Great video guys that was really helpful because I've been looking atmy suspension with volume spacers and trying to figure out just how much it affects the ride and whether it messes with the natural supplements of the fork
Really useful info never thought about these but I like a firmer feel growing up on a BMX bike this might help! That trail looks sick!
Just what I needed, thanks!!
This is great. Whilst I've always been aware of volume spacers and what they do (roughly), I had no idea how to install them, how many to use etc. I'm going to have a go at adding some to my bike. Thanks boys.
I just started playing with volume spacers. Glad I did. Less air more comfortable and no bottom outs.😁🤙🏽
That quick release on the front wheel though:( Otherwise, loved the video👍
Shocking
Quick release? Where?
very informative! thanks!
Excellent video lads!
Superb instructional video
Always great info
MRP Ramp Control Cartridge for adjustment on the fly. Can't wait to try it this season.
Should’ve mounted a GoPro pointing at the forks so we could watch the travel action through different sections of each run with each spacer quantity. Still a great video though guys 👍🏼 keep it up.
I've got a 29'er hardtail xc bike my local bike shop put some tokens in the fork and dropped the pressure, it has made the bike so smooth .Its like a totally different bike I no longer rattle me teeth loose ,give it a go glad I did
Hey Neil, great video. I think I will try this trial and error runs myself. Also running 2 tokens now. btw. do yusulally run your maxle lever in the fork pointing forward? :)
When I upgraded my Pike to the new air spring with big neg spring, I ended up removing all spacers (and having to run 30% sag) in order to use 95-99% travel v occasionally on my rides.
A bigger neg increases sensitivity but also ramp up/progression Bonus
hey have you found the new air spring to be worth it?
Totally worth it. I found the same thing as Rupert.
Depending on what im planning on riding ile change my setup.
Like in my local run 2 spacers but if i go to somewhere thats just big jumps n drops ile go 3 or more then if im riding somewhere really rocky ile go down to 1 just to save my hands a bit.
Great video. Are there any rules of thumb for adding volume spacers and adjusting rebound/compression?
Quality video 🙌🏻
You go so fast!!! 😱😱👍🏻
Really cool video. I enjoy GMBN stuff a lot and, except of fun, it brings from time to time great ideas for me and my bike. I would very happy to know what type of shrink tubing are you using to take all the cockpit cables together on the first bike in video- blue canyon. I want to make my cockpit a little prettier, so I search shrink tubing that I can use for it. Or maybe it not a shrink tube at all? Because I think normal shrink tube will tear at point where cables split to shifter/dropper/etc. after some weeks of usage. I would be very thankful if someone can make it clear for me.
I have a Fox 36 Performance. Stock I used 2 tokens and needed full travel. After I made the Grip2 upgrade I only need 1 token for full travel.
Completely off topic but just a thought for a gmbn video; how bout a pack for Saalbach video? I bet there are a lot of guys/gals going there who just like me will go on their first mtb holiday. What should you bring to an alpine location like Saalbach? What stuff don’t you need to bring because local shops will have it in stock? Idk think it would be very enlightening to have a vid like that
Is the MRP Ramp control a good alternative to traditional volume spacers?
Be interesting to see u do with a quarq shockwiz and see what that says...
More linear or more progressive rear - Any preferences?
You guys should sell bike specific tools with GMBN logo on them such as non-chamfered socket set, the park tool and fox ones are expensive and usually special order most places
great video well explained, but I have a question; when I put a token into the fork, should I put less air pressure to have exactly the same sag as before?
You'll have ever so slightly less sag than before, but effectively the token doesn't affect the initial stroke, it just makes it harder to bottom out. So yes use the same air pressure as before :)
My man changed track 6:22 😂he went from sheepskull to ski run
Jesus, you’re quick, Neil!
Hi Iv got a yeti and the recommended sag is 18mm in the dpx2. Shock..however to achieve this it says il need 261 psi but the shock will only take 250 psi max..so I’m using all my travel all the time. Could you explain what I need to do to resolve this please
How would you use it on chuncky terrain with no big hits?
Do you guys have a used parts that your guys not using it, can I have it because I'm upgrading my cheap ccm mountain bike
Isn't the point to add more volume spacers that you can run a lower pressure with the same sag % and therefore get better small bump sensitivity?
Why can I see your red o-ring basically touching the crown at 8:45 when you have 4 tokens in? Just mixing up video from multiple runs?
They won’t film each run top to bottom, from trackside, they’ll chuck in little clips from bits from sections they do just for the video. Otherwise they would need camera men all the way down the track.
Should have done this as a “BLIND” test.. Wonder how the results would have possibly changed???? Thanks for the video…. 🇺🇸
So when riding downhill nothing on my body gets sore but halfway through the day the vibration through my hands starts to kill and makes it almost impossible to grip the bars. Any suggestion on how to reduce this?
For me having some larger grips helped a bit, but can’t guarantee any science on it 😂
Hi to close it's 25Nm? Thanks I'm from San Diego California
do the same test with the rear shock insread
Nice to know this is a thing. I still rock a coil sprung sektor on my steel 456 evo2 haha.. hehe.. he.. I feel old :(
1:06 haha and also great video i guys i run fox 34 with 3 volume spacer and 63 psi i am really light i know
using 95-99% of max travel maybe once of twice on ur usual trails is a good guide
Replacing cassette and tools needed?
Currently running zero spacers, but am considering adding 1 or two and dropping the pressure in the fork slightly, my front end is pretty chattery on faster stuff, the motion control damper doesn't help (fork is RS 35 Gold).
Your rebound is too high.
I wanted to use a bigger volume spacer to my Fox dpx2 damper, but after i bought them, i figured out, that the max height is 0.4, exactly what is already in my damper :(
140 lb rider. Not super aggressive. Fox 36 Float Performance Elite, 150mm, FIT4 which I think comes stock with two tokens unless that differs on women specific bikes. I've never used all of the travel, but don't like how mushy it feels with low enough pressure to do so. So if I want more small bump sensitivity for our rooty trails, but want more pop in the mid stroke for small drops and bunny hops, I should add some tokens and lower the PSI?
Still hoping someone can answer this. Fork didn't come with any volume spacers.
Great explanation, thank you! I still don't understand one thing though. If more spacers mean that I effectively only use 140 of my 170 mm travel (e.g.), than what's the point in having those 170 mm? Should the roughest drop I ever do not get me at leat close to a bottom out (with a little bit of reserve)?
you don't change the available travel. Only the way the fork behaves.
Shouldn't you also consider matching the fork with the rear suspension when tuning for a balanced ride? It's also been said bottoming once or twice on a hard ride indicates a good tune
I added a 4th (of 6 max on Fox32) volume spacer and using the same sag and pressure, I'm yet to see full travel even on my hardest rides. Am I missing out on the last 10mm of travel?
That’s the magic of the tokens, now you can lower a lil psi and get a better feel
8:44 full travel i see mmmmmmhh...
Not sure what you're insinuating, but I would assume it's an editing mistake.
@@TheLOMTONG use your brain and eyes. Yes, his 'mmmmmhhhh' unclear but you could find out by yourself: look closer at that moment - red sag-ring on left stanchion is at full up.
@@ka81alex Hence, the editing mistake, the editor probably cut in the shot from the run with no volume spacers instead of the one with full spacers. The only other option is that you can compress the same volume of air into a smaller area while using the same amount of force, which is physically impossible. Is that a good enough explanation or should I go on?
Noticed that as well - could be editing?
So, what about spacers getting stuck/being hard to fit? I have an OEM Fox 32 Rhythm Float and I checked the topcap and it had the attachment so I put 2 blue spacers in it, when I went to put the spacers in they were a little firm to put in, so I pushed a little, then they popped in, and it took me a full year to devise a way to get them out without wrecking anything, they just seem like they're too big, but everything (bike and spacers) was purchased from an authorized vendor, no grey market. Happen to anyone else? Take an X-acto blade and chamfer the corners? They seem like a very hard composite compound. But the feeling is fine with the spacers, I see no need to upgrade to a more expensive fork if I can just get these to install/remove reliably.
There are different ones, u likely had wrong ones for ur model year of fork
This would be really nice test with a gimbal.
Great doc! But next time please turn on hypersmooth on that Gopro.
Lol...yeh thought that. May be he us going so hard, he overcame it's capability!
Dont be afraid to not use all your travel, a good suspension setup for you does not need to bottom out or even use all the available travel , to be a well set up fork/suspension, remember its not compulsory to use all the suspension travel.
does it minimize the travel on your fork when you put these in?
no
I always thought that another user for adding a token would be to run slightly lower pressure for small bump sensitivity?
they talked about this in the video
What i don't understand is what's the point having a big travel bike and then adding tokens to not use all the travel?
My question is .. why no just run a fork with just less travel if you only want to use like 150mm or your 170? Am I missing the benefit?
I’m heavy 235 lbs and when I hit steep switch backs it feels like I’m going OTB, have a Rock shock Yary very High psi, should I put some volume spacers???
maybe check that the rebound of your rear shock isn't too fast, throwing you forward
IMHO, yes you most likely want to add one or more spacers.
I'm also 235. I need to run the rear shock at the slowest return possible to get the same feel as an average weight rider with a rebound set in the middle.
How does rider weight play into this?? I'd thing a heavy rider (like me) would benefit more from the tokens???
Could be, but not necessarily. Set u sag 25% properly, then go from there. If u bottom out or need more support, and a token. If ur not using most of ur travel once orr twice on ur usual trails, then remove spacer. Setting sag right first is key
I'd love to see your real world results compared to results from a tool like shockwiz. I know a lot of people who rely entirely on shockwiz to do the tuning of their suspension.
Great tool...far too expensive. Keep thinking should hire one...
do spacers make your travel less? because piston can bottom out to spacer (or I'm wrong)
Yes youre wrong
They don’t limit travel
Why is the camera so cracked? poorly fixed?
I am running the same tyre all year :(
You came up with a different formula (3 spacers and lower pressure) but then did not complete the test with the new setup? Why?
So my question is.. i am a havier rider and always have psi on the limits, can the the spacers help me?
To certain limit yes. Probably better go to proper suspension workshop.
If you’re bottoming out, I’d say yes.
Probably...need to check max.spacer allowed in ur fork, in case already at max
Where was this filmed ?
Looked like the Forest of Dean
I run 3 tokens and 85 psi on my rockshox pike :p
Almost the same for me. Even down to the psi. I am running 80psi, love how high I ride in the travel and still feel soft on the big hits
Wait so does adding more volume spacers give more small bump sensitivity?
More spacers mean the fork ramps up more through its travel, making maximum travel (bottoming out) harder to achieve. So with more spacers you can drop the pressure slightly (better small bump sensitivity) without blowing through all of your travel on big hits 👍
@@gmbn noice thanks for the info
You convinced me! Thx
Are flat pedal shoes necessary I use cheap Nike runners is investing in a good pair of shoes a smart decision
I now have proper shoes because protection and functionality but rode in vans for years. get some good pedals nukeproof neutrons or deity composite are good and cheap!
When Neil said he had 2 volume spacers in his fork because he says he's "well 'ard". Was the noise I heard the camera operator trying not to laugh?
Probably! 😂
At what point do u actually switch to full face, this looked quite sketchy, lots of tree stumps that would make quick work of that tiny helmet
Nice dudes
Everyone wants to add spacers and here i am thinking about the opposite - removing the spacers and increasing air pressure.
If you add tokens you can now open the slow speed compression, this way you keep comfort and the tokkens will provide support for big shocks. Let me know if I'm correct or not!
Even if I played back my fastest run on that top track back at 2x speed I'd be slower than you! Still manage to use most of my travel though...
Less go
5 tokens on a Fox Factory 36 with 100 PSI
The front wheel axle lock is bad posicioned!!! Please put it backwards
Do the spacers just go in in one side? And wasn´t there a liquid that you may or may not have to fill in? Or what it jsut wet from the water.
They have to be used in the air chamber...the air chamber usually just has a few ml of oil or grease in it, unlike the other side which is for dampening and is full of oil
@@JimnyRicardo Ok, thanks.
wtf minute 8:45 you have the suspension full bottomed out, but then you used less travel?
0:13
That looks fast which means it's really really fast. 😂 Because GoPro video always looks slow
0:13 lolol
Look like some unfair in tests... Second run with 4 tokens. On 8:44 time on video on a pause we can see red SAG O-ring is over the "Debonair" sign. But few seconds later 8:51 - it is 20mm lower than it was on the run...
Yessssssss
2 tokens
with ”too many” volume spacers you can have more sag without bottoming out
It went together easily in less than an hour. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
It looks like you're using either a Hero 7 or 8 Black, so it should have Hypersmooth. Might I request that you turn that on and also tighten the Chesty strap? The POV footage in this and some other videos is a bit nauseating...Cheers!
if you change spacers and keep pressure the same, you will have different sag numbers!
Does it affect climbing.
That blokes hair is Fascinating!! 😂
so volume spacers shorten the stroke length? instead of having a 150mm fork just have a 120mm instead at the right pressure??
No