Hey, Pig and piglings! SC player since 1. Been watching your streams for a while now and they are quite entertaining. I have a balance suggestion and wondering your thoughts … Give consume to all Zerg spellcasters. I think this fits the lore and makes the explosive reaction potential of the swarm more dynamic. Since the last patch, Protoss energy recharge seems like it’s making the lack of Zerg units that can shoot up one sided for the Z player. Thoughts?
Astrea played to his advantages quite well. The range advantage of the Tempest is extremely difficult to overcome, even for arguably the top Zerg player in the world. Serral, realizing this, switched it up and did his utmost to prevent Astrea from reaching late game in Game 3. There are problems with Zerg late game, like bulky slow casters, units that only attack air or ground but not both which hurts supply cap efficiency, etc.
I have a lot of respect for your pro SC2 knowledge pig, but you are too stubborn in your defense of game balance. Range is late game king in SC2, always has been. Being able to pull armies forward is huge, allowing Astrea to choose where to fight and where to slip away. Carriers are fine, but all the Protoss players are abusing Tempests now. Corrupters don’t even counter them effectively because of their crap range and poor speed and acceleration. When the unit that is supposed to counter you loses in most practical scenarios, there is a balance issue. And I would like to argue Serral is possibly the #1 Zerg in the world while Astrea is one tier down among his Protoss brethren. If Serral can’t beat it, then there is a problem. And I think you know it too, because you hinted that Zerg’s only chance now in this matchup is a mid game timing attack before the Golden Tempest Armada gets rolling. You don’t even need a lot of tempests, just enough to snipe hatcheries. EDIT: You mentioned vipers, but a war of attrition between vipers and Tempest is problematic as well. Vipers need energy to abduct and cannot finish the Tempests on their own. You have to abduct them into enough units to 1-shot the Tempest. That means unit diversity, which reduces DPS and makes you vulnerable to being pushed. Furthermore, the change to Protoss now allows them to charge up a spellcaster like a high templar, making feedback on Vipers even more of a threat. I think Serral knows very well the trade-offs with vipers vs. corruptors and it's telling that he didn't try to mass vipers (which takes more tech research investment). Obviously brood lords are inferior units to Tempests because they seem even slower, and cannot actually shoot air units. So Tempests slaughter them while they are forced to take it. Really, that a problem isn't it? You have to build a brood lord AND a corruptor just to get less functionality than a single Tempest. And what about late game mobility? Recall is just superior to Nydus, as we saw in that game. Nydus cannot run away like the mothership can, not to mention the mothership now appears somewhat better able to defend itself. Serral tried to use Nydus to counter recall but it was hopeless. APM for APM, P > Z late game. You yourself mentioned how micro-intensive it is to juggle Nydus worms, much less the investment to make one as they keep getting sniped. I'm not saying Zerg can't win against Toss, I'm just saying that LATE GAME now heavily favors P > Z. The tempest even nullify the Zerg ability to move static defenses because the Tempests outrange spore crawlers and melt them quickly. You said they don't do a lot of damage but it looks like plenty to me. A medium pack of 6 or 7 tempests seems to be enough to one shot just about any zerg unit smaller than an Ultra. Serral was NOT "mentally broken." He just understands the matchup in its current state VERY well, and knew that there was no way to win in that position. I hear you about not using game balance as an excuse for losing (I have never thought in those terms) but it's hard for me as a fan of the game to see Zerg at such a disadvantage just because Serral was wrecking faces for so long.
Damn good PvZ. Game two was awesome
Hey, Pig and piglings! SC player since 1. Been watching your streams for a while now and they are quite entertaining. I have a balance suggestion and wondering your thoughts … Give consume to all Zerg spellcasters. I think this fits the lore and makes the explosive reaction potential of the swarm more dynamic.
Since the last patch, Protoss energy recharge seems like it’s making the lack of Zerg units that can shoot up one sided for the Z player.
Thoughts?
Second game was a masterclass in lategame protoss. Massive skill display by astrea.
Astrea played to his advantages quite well. The range advantage of the Tempest is extremely difficult to overcome, even for arguably the top Zerg player in the world. Serral, realizing this, switched it up and did his utmost to prevent Astrea from reaching late game in Game 3. There are problems with Zerg late game, like bulky slow casters, units that only attack air or ground but not both which hurts supply cap efficiency, etc.
Is this a re-upload? Thought I watched this Cast from you already? And I only watch your youtube channel.
seconded
16:20 _Happy Gas Mask Noises_
Death korp of kireg has entered the chat.
Thanks for the videos
SC balance council should be embarrassed and ashamed.
For what?
It was 2-1, with very close games. neither surreal nor astrea steamrolled the other. is that not balanced enough for you?
I have a lot of respect for your pro SC2 knowledge pig, but you are too stubborn in your defense of game balance. Range is late game king in SC2, always has been. Being able to pull armies forward is huge, allowing Astrea to choose where to fight and where to slip away. Carriers are fine, but all the Protoss players are abusing Tempests now. Corrupters don’t even counter them effectively because of their crap range and poor speed and acceleration. When the unit that is supposed to counter you loses in most practical scenarios, there is a balance issue. And I would like to argue Serral is possibly the #1 Zerg in the world while Astrea is one tier down among his Protoss brethren. If Serral can’t beat it, then there is a problem. And I think you know it too, because you hinted that Zerg’s only chance now in this matchup is a mid game timing attack before the Golden Tempest Armada gets rolling. You don’t even need a lot of tempests, just enough to snipe hatcheries.
EDIT: You mentioned vipers, but a war of attrition between vipers and Tempest is problematic as well. Vipers need energy to abduct and cannot finish the Tempests on their own. You have to abduct them into enough units to 1-shot the Tempest. That means unit diversity, which reduces DPS and makes you vulnerable to being pushed. Furthermore, the change to Protoss now allows them to charge up a spellcaster like a high templar, making feedback on Vipers even more of a threat. I think Serral knows very well the trade-offs with vipers vs. corruptors and it's telling that he didn't try to mass vipers (which takes more tech research investment).
Obviously brood lords are inferior units to Tempests because they seem even slower, and cannot actually shoot air units. So Tempests slaughter them while they are forced to take it. Really, that a problem isn't it? You have to build a brood lord AND a corruptor just to get less functionality than a single Tempest.
And what about late game mobility? Recall is just superior to Nydus, as we saw in that game. Nydus cannot run away like the mothership can, not to mention the mothership now appears somewhat better able to defend itself. Serral tried to use Nydus to counter recall but it was hopeless. APM for APM, P > Z late game. You yourself mentioned how micro-intensive it is to juggle Nydus worms, much less the investment to make one as they keep getting sniped.
I'm not saying Zerg can't win against Toss, I'm just saying that LATE GAME now heavily favors P > Z. The tempest even nullify the Zerg ability to move static defenses because the Tempests outrange spore crawlers and melt them quickly. You said they don't do a lot of damage but it looks like plenty to me. A medium pack of 6 or 7 tempests seems to be enough to one shot just about any zerg unit smaller than an Ultra. Serral was NOT "mentally broken." He just understands the matchup in its current state VERY well, and knew that there was no way to win in that position. I hear you about not using game balance as an excuse for losing (I have never thought in those terms) but it's hard for me as a fan of the game to see Zerg at such a disadvantage just because Serral was wrecking faces for so long.
Toss mid game is pretty trash though so I feel like it's actually fair to let toss have a good late game for the first time in years
You obviously seem very knowledgeable of the game, I respect that
Wishing for some TvX over the new year 😅
12:47 I'm sorry, what did you say?
Such an early stalker poke I think
beautiful games !
This games where shown already x10 in yt
lmao 75 kill colossus
Third :(
So disappointing:(