honest thoughts on the Leica M11-P after 6 months
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
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This is why I cannot justify a Leica today. I have owned the M8, M240, SL and M10 in the past. They all had issues and from what I have heard from other photographers like yourself Mike, the M11 continues that “legacy” of issues.
I decided to switch to the Nikon ZF and it has been absolutely fantastic. Wait. Correction. It has performed like how it has been designed.
The rangefinder system needs more competition because I honestly cannot justify spending over $10k for a camera that makes me “question” if it while freeze on me.
Much love from Australia.
Munya!
Pixii Max mate! FF rangefinder with native M mount and MUCH less than a Leica M11.
I ended up getting rid of my Leica set up because I could not excuse such an expensive item locking up/ freezing. I found I couldn’t get it out of my head that the beautiful camera I had paid £8000 for kept freezing/ locking up/ having weird playback issues. I always used canon cameras and had never had any of those issue.
It was an absolute JOY to use, I loved using it, the images were fantastic and it looks great.
However now I have my canon kit back I no longer have any huge desire to have the Leicas I had back. I am so happy that my camera is reliable and as long as I have something to get the photos I want to capture I realised it really doesn’t matter what camera I use, as long as I get the shot I will enjoy the experience!
I still completely understand why people gravitate to Leica I just know I am glad I had the experience but I don’t think I’d go back.
I loved my M11. I also loved my Q2M, Q2 and M6. I ended up getting rid of all of them for one reason or another. I think it all boils down to this: I couldn't get over the fact it's a luxury item that couldn't do its job as well as cheaper alternatives. If I was rich, I'd definitely own one just for the sh*ts and giggles. I'm not so I use a Canon for efficiency. No hate on any brand, no judgement for any camera. Live and let live
Nicely said. The last point specifically - people can just use whatever they want. It isn’t that deep 😂
As an M11-p owner who has experienced the rare lockup, it is unfortunate; however, I bought the camera knowing this was an issue. I absolutely love using it. i don’t use it for work, just for pleasure… if I need a workhorse, I use my Canon R3!!!💯 great video!
The pickupability of M’s are indeed amazing. And it is a real thing! I have a 40 year old M4-2- it has all kinds of little quirks, but I just can’t wait to shoot it again- even though I kind of suck with film. In the digital world, I just sold my SL3 for an M11. Even though the SL3 technology was actually flawless- solid, fast, and never a blip… it’s heavy, clunky, and doesn’t fit into my photography flow. However, the fact that the technology is so dialed in now with the SL3, it’s foreshadowing how the next M12 will be. Probably the best yet. And it will far surpass all the pseudo-rangefinders out there. Particularly if they figure out the dual ovf/evf and eliminate the visoflex
I've seen a few people say they have problems with the camera locking up .
That's one of the reasons I've been put off upgrading ,
I've been an M10-D shooter for about 4 years and at the moment I'm more than happy with that anyway
That's very interesting; does the M10-D have no issues with freezing due to the absence of a screen?
It's never frozen in all the time I've had it , I also have an m-p240 which I use now and then , that does freeze every so often ,I just take the battery out and it works when I put it back in
@@markturner7910i see, that is certainly the case for my M10-R. and it always happen at the worst possible timing.
I absolutely love my M11 - it's a virtually perfect camera, and I've owned all kinds of cameras in the past - Mamiya, Hasselblad, Canon, Sony. There's just something about an M that makes you engage with it on a different level than other cameras. That said, I have also been dealing with many, many bugs since buying it a couple of years ago. I've even had the main circuit board replaced, but the bugs keep occurring. I want to keep this camera, but Leica is really trying my patience, especially since they've offered no explanation or apology.
I relate to this wholeheartedly haha
@@MikeChudley Sounds like you do! 😄
Pickupability is massive. Ain't no one talking about it
nice honest update review about your journey to leica m11-p, I owned leica m11 no problem , no freeze issue, I didn`t update my firmware because of that issue. especially from the leica M11 Monochrome, and M11 -P version, but the leica m11 regular original didn`t experience that much problem from what I saw few months ago, I don`t know the latest firmware situation if leica really fix the problem. I think I still keep my previous firmware.
I have had the freeze problem on both my M11M and M11P. The situation has improved with the latest firmware. It's still not perfect but the lockups are far less. I am using the Sony G cards. Some people say it doesn't freeze if you write the image to the onboard storage.
My M11 freezes frequently, I had to send it back to Leica and they probably need something like 5 months to repair it...
The customer care is simply amazing and we arrange a temporary solution, but honestly, coming from a perfect experience with Fuji it's really disappointing.
What you're looking for is the Leica Q3 - impossible to beat for me! Some people had lock ups with this too - but not me - and all fixed with a firmware update. I'm sure they fix the M11 with a firmware update too. I would never use auto WB on any camera. For continuity shot to shot - shoot raw and use 'daylight' and then easily adjusted in Lightroom - even on a batch of pics.
not everyone wants autofocus and also a way way smaller setup
@@niftyfiftyfilm true - some people just won't embrace techological advances!
@@niftyfiftyfilm I am waiting on the delivery of a Q3 43 after using a Sony RX1 35mm fixed lens for over a decade. HOWEVER, I have spent hours researching whether a an M11 or Q3 (non-43) might be the better choice for the next step on my journey. I have had the Q3, the M11 and an APO 50mm in my Checkout at one point or another over the past week, but for now, am sticking with the 43 order. One does not have to use autofocus with a Q, and "smaller setup" is part of the Leica value proposition, anyway (and the Q is really not that much smaller than the M11). I liquidated all my ILC equipment when I got the RX1, and now recall what a blessing that experience of not dealing with all the pieces, weight, size and cost has been, helping drive my photographic creativity. After a long time using only a 35mm focal length, I rarely can think of when I wanted a wider view, and usually wished I had a little more distance. My compliments to Mike for his candid reviews of the M11, which has been effective at highlighting pros and cons.
I have had my M11 since July 2022. Early on, I did have a periodic freezing issue, but that was largely solved through firmware updates. I say "largely", because the final fix was actually moving to SDXC cards (64GB/250MB/s/V60/II,10 (in a little circle) & haven't had a problem since. MAybe a visit to your friendly Leica store in London might be in order.
I also want to mention that I appreciate your Camera "Experience" checklist, especially number 2: Pickupability. THAT was the very reason I bought this M camera. I started out in photography in the late 1950s with a Ricoh 35 'S' rangefinder camera given to me by my Dad. Later on, I had a Leica M2R with a 50mm DR Summicron. I had to sell the camera after a couple of years of use, but I never forgot the feel of the camera and always regretted having to part with it. I am now 79 and decided that a Leica would be my last camera purchase. Immediately, it was like picking up an old friend. And, yes, it is a camera that I want to pick up and use. You hit the nail right on the head. Cheers!
Surprises me that the camera generously works with special non Leica overpriced cards.
It’s so interesting that so many of the comments are coming from m11 owners. Leica lovers love hearing other people’s opinions on them, and I’m no different haha
haha people always want to chime in on this discussions, it's why I make these types of videos :)
Nobody ever knock the images from my Nintendo 6000! Peter McKinnon gave it to me himself!
6:35 I have found with most Leica cameras to set the white balance to daylight (or warmer) by default as a starting point. Over time, you get a feeling what starting points work in what scenarios. I agree with your take on Leica's auto white balance.
Thanks for a really informative video. I love my Q3 (and my Q2 before it), but I have been toying with getting an M-11P. You have given me a lot to think about.
My M11 also locks up and it's been a bit frustrating, but the rest of it is amazing....
I was thinking of selling/trading in my m10+m10m to get an m11p but was worried about freezing issues, I don’t think I’d have the patience for it at that price point.
Interesting take on the qualifiers for a camera choice. Those particular things vary so wildly. I've known many photographers for whom the idea of "pickupability" doesn't register at all, in any way. Which makes sense for them. Every photographer I know is right on board with your notion of Canon vs Nikon vs Sony vs Etc being irrelevant, though. I see people online fighting about that nonsense constantly yet I've not seen it in person in some 20 years. People actually shooting couldn't care less. Every time I meet a photographer, they might say "oh, what you shooting with?" and promptly follow with "Ah, cool, Those are great little cameras." And they are. Literally every camera is dope.
I have a weird one on my personal list: company history and operations. Leica had the "Leica Freedom Train," which smuggled Jews out of Germany during the occupation; then sent them overseas to Leica offices around the world and placed them in working positions. Even now, Leica is famously good to their employees and, of course, assemble their cameras by hand. These type of things register for me and all the stories add up to a company I like doing business with.
Anyway, the M11P is a GORGEOUS camera, that's damn near inarguable ha. I hope to track down a M240P at some point as my forever body. Those murdered out editions look so good.
Very well said.
And the perfect word to describe the m11p is gorgeous 😂
I through about one for a long while now, but there should be ZERO issues with the M11. Leica has had years to fix the issues and they still persist. I’m leaning more towards the Pixii Max that’s soon to be released. Over half of the price less as an M11 and, arguably, will be more reliable as a whole. FF with M mount is a beautiful thing. Enjoyed your video and insight, thanks for sharing it with us.
Got my M11 a year ago, I haven’t experienced freezing issues so far.
See?
I hear stories like yours and some are heavily affected. i'm glad that you're not affected.
Another great video dude. Thank you so much. I agree with you in everything you mentioned. In fact, I own the following cameras: Leica M11P, Leica Q2M, Canon 1DX Mark III, Canon R5, Nikon Z9, Nikon Zf, FujiFilm GFX100S, and FujiFilm X-T5. Honestly, when I look at all the photos I took with those cameras, the only photos I remember exactly how I took them and the full story behind them are those taken by the M11P. The experience does matter indeed.
I'm always surprised at the lengths people go in an attempt to justify a very expensive outlay for something that doesn't work properly. It's like they're living in denial of the obvious fact that their vastly overpriced cameras don't work very well.
I'm not a Leica "hater".
Back around 2014 I switched from Canon to Leica to get back to basics (manual focus, prime lenses etc.) and bought a brand new M9 body for €6,300. It was faulty straight out of the box (rangefinder off) and had to be sent back to Leica Germany.
Was given a Leica M8 to 'tide me over' till the M9 was repaired. It was crap for a number of reasons I won't go into now.
Eventually I got tired of the ridiculous time the M9 was taking to be returned and switched to Fuji.
Never had a problem since and Fuji cameras have never let me down...not once.
Meanwhile I'm repeatedly seeing videos of M8, M9, M10 and M11 users with camera issues.
I've been a photographer for over 40 years and apart from Leica I have never had a faulty camera from any brand or price range that was faulty straight out of the box. You're being conned by the mystique of an 'iconic' brand name, and the belief that "it cost so much so it must be special".
I believe the reason Leica repairs can take up to a year is because they're snowed under with faulty Leica's, and any camera that doesn't function is just a doorstop, no matter how nice it may look or feel?
The Sony A7CR has the same sensor + IBIS + AI auto-focus + tiltable screen and it doesn’t lock up. I use it with Voigtländer lenses when I want that manual feel and vintage look. At a fraction of the price it never locks up.
No , the Sony does not have the same sensor at all. Leica sensors are not made in Japan. They are made in Belgium specifically for Leica exclusively.
Mike, great video. I also have the same camera and am looking for a 50mm lens. However, after purchasing the 35mm Summilux FLE 2, I need to be a bit more budget conscious. Have you tried 3rd party lenses from companies like Voigtlander, Thypoch? What are your thoughts?
do you really need another lens?
I’ve had a Q3 for about 9 months, it’s locked up just a couple of time and the start up time has been improved with firmware, but the auto white bal has been fine. Love the camera, massive pickupability… Mike can I ask who prints your Zines and what software do you use to lay them out. Just ordered a copy so looking forward to seeing it
Love my M11 but before some of the firmware updates I had multiple freezes while shooting and touring and it was very frustrating covering a set and having to pop the battery out a couple times during a set. Hoping that there isnt further issues because the image is beautiful.
I've stuck with the M10-P since 2019. It's only locked up once or twice over the years, which is acceptable. It's slow to start up as well, I usually wake it, then bring it up to my eye.That way, it's ready to go. If I bring it up to my eye before tapping the shutter, I end up just standing like an idiot waiting for it to do something! I tend to shoot more film nowadays, that only freezes when I hit the end of the roll! ;)
2 questions if I may:
1) what made you move from the Q2 to the M system (choice of different focal lengths aside) ?
2) your thoughts on wear out ? - do you ever see yourself being fed up with the M ?
Thx!
The manual experience, range finder/optical viewfinder.
Overall the m is everything I want and or need. Nothing else looks as enjoyable to use (maybe just the MP for film)
Are you on the newest firmware? One was released maybe a little over a month ago now (2.1.1). It seems to have fixed many of the freeze issues people were having. I'm using it on my M11-P and haven't experienced any freezing.
Yeah I updated it. Helped a little but it still locked up once when I was in NYC
@@MikeChudley Ah ok, worth a shot. Hopefully Leica keeps refining the firmware and gets rid of all the freezing eventually.
@@MikeChudley My M11 also still freezes after the update. I sent my camera to Leica Repair and they could not replicate the freezing so they sent the camera back to me. I still like the camera and will keep it. Hopefully, a software fix will eventually come our way.
Well the freezing problem must be hardware related. I heard that Leica are looking into problems with some batches of electronic boards. That would also explain why only some cameras have the problem, even with new firmware. And as a software developer I can't believe that a firmware issue could not be solved after so many years. There must be an internal logging in camera, on steps before a lock or freeze occurs. If not from scratch, but then implemented with a newer firmware. And by that they should be able to see where the glitch is....
Yeah, I am sticking to the M10. Rock stable. MUCH faster start up times.
Here also M10R... Rock stable and the bottom plate which is classic to have
That was interesting-I thought the freezing went away after the last firmware update. My 10-R is flawless in that regard. Odd that Leica has not overcome that unconscionable fault!
I tried to warn everyone with my 2 videos about the original M11. Unfortunately, it looks like TH-cam didn't suggest any of them to you. Too bad. But I have to tell you that yours is probably just broken and you should definitely get it replaced. This has helped many people, and they had no more problems after the exchange. I talked to the service for a long time myself, and they definitely have no idea what is causing the problem. So you won't get a firmware update to fix the issue either. It either works or it doesn't.
Interesting, not heard anyone say it worked. Just that they asked Leica why and they had no answer. Something to consider for sure.
link to the video you speak of?
@@gewglesux th-cam.com/video/TelfCDHx4-s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jDrITruYUMuE-p36
But what does a 9k camera freezing with no fix (yet continues to sell M11s) say about Leica and the quality of the cameras they are now producing? For me it’s not good. I wouldn’t buy a Bentley that occasionally wouldn’t start just to have a Bentley. 😂
Are you using the standby mode when leaving your camera on (since the camera has a slow start-up)? I have mine set to 10 min standby. Sometimes my M11 freezes when I turn it off while in stand-by mode, and turn it back on a few minutes later. I occasionally experience freezes when quickly pushing the shutter button too often (when the camera is set to the single-shot mode option).
I’ve been using mine a couple of times a week since January, and haven’t had any issues. Could it be the SD card? Technology is frustratingly impenetrable. I’ve had the inverse experience of your’s where if I let it go to sleep instead of switching it off, it seems to take longer to wake itself up to a usable state. Who knows? Definitely a fun camera.
Tried a variety of SD cards, to no avail
Freeze problem for such a price is not acceptable. Leica must fix this issues asap.
Thanks for this. I’ll wait a year. Maybe even m12.? Lagged start up time and freezing are reasons why I have analog mp.
I used the MP for a month, it’s damn near perfect haha
Thanks! I agree with what you said about cameras. As for Leica, I gave up when my last one broke down on the second day of a trip. All my Leicas with electronics had a habit of breaking down. Sometimes to the extent that I had to pay a fortune or the camera was simply refused for repair. At the prices they go for, I felt cheated. Because I love the M system, I bought an M-P. No electronics and if the light meter fails, I have an iPhone app. Leica is facing a tough job. They have been very successful in building a second reputation: unreliable electronics. And how is it possible that the display can only be used if you hold the camera at about the same height you would use for the range viewer?
I heard the Oxford Dictionary just added pickupability.
Exactly.
Sounds like the Sigma SD-10 I sold. AWB terrible, pictures blurred while moving around (My Nikkormat doesn't make blurry pics while moving around), battery always empty, but hyped!
I think you more like the experience of manual focusing. I like it better too. But you don't need a Leica for that. Zeiss Contessa for example is a collapsible 35mm camera better suited for street photography than the Olympus LC/RD/SP cameras. Zone focus and handling is wonderful.
I was on elf the testers for this issue for Leica, the latest firmware update has cured this problem. Have you updated it?
Yeah the magenta tint sucks ass on the Auto WB. I also shoot B&W in Live view as a result and just have to spend a bit of time fixing the RAW. That to me is a bigger issue than camera freezes, which I think are a bit overblown.
I hate to hear this.... I won't be in the position to buy before the next model comes out. I am curious as to why this is happening- to some and not to others.
i am glad i subscribed.
I've stuck with the Q2 as by comparison its alot more reliable :-) Go Chris Harrison's book!!
The freezing can occur because of the SD card. Have you tried a new SD formatted in camera ? If not might be worth a try. I don’t understand the wake up time issue. When I go out with my Leica I switch it on as I get out of the car and let it sleep when not in use. I’ve never missed a shot using that method, it’s second nature now to give the shutter button some pressure as I bring the camera up for the shot to wake it up
Tried various SD cards to no avail
Oh no !!
Thanks Mike for another great video! I am considering to buy an M11-P, but the freezing issue is putting me off. Perhaps there would be no issues if only using the internal storage?
@@Schulz1392 I tried using only the internal storage and I still had freezing issues
My Fuji X-Pro3 has that pickup ability thing but I also have to leave it turned on when ‘on patrol’!
Also mine has a strange quirk whereby in Single Shot mode it takes like 3 seconds to save a RAW shot to the SD cards (🤷🤦♂️🤷) however, when I switch to Drive mode and 3FPS I can still take individual photos and there’s Zero lag . . . which is very odd but then it hasn’t ever Frozen Up on me in the last 12 months 🤷
Hey dude, maybe you have Clarity enabled. When you go to 3FPS, the Clarity is automatically deactivated and the file saves faster. Give it a check, put Clarity on 0 to double-check.
@@Paulo_das_Neves Thanks for the input but, I just checked, Clarity was already set to zero 🤷
I am retired so ownership a moot point! My Leica M3 (1967 new in box) still in use was almost flawless!! If had the Funds, I still wouln't buy any Leica-M Digital!
It's a pity to have a camera the randomly freeze on you. I have a M10R which is rocksteady... But as a Leica shooter, there isn't any competition picture quality wise. The Japanese brands do look clinical and digital compared to the organic/ film like Leica ones...
Is white balance an issue on Q3 too?
No idea.
Never had a freeze on my M-11 P
I think the cards you are using is the issue. I’ve shot thousands of images now on my M11-P (see my latest Tokyo video ) and have not have that issue (except only using Sony cards). Try Lexar cards.
I'm using Lexar cards haha
I've tried a lot of different cards over the months. Same issue.
Great that your m11 is solid though :)
@@MikeChudley sorry, you are having this issue.... hmm maybe send it back for repair?
Soon M11 owner - read leica forum some changed to v90 angelbird fastes card and problem solved..
I’ve tried a few different cards but not that one. I’ll have a look 👍
It’s like owning a Japanese motorcycle or a German motorcycle. Japanese are totally reliable, the German has a few niggles.
Talking about issues, i feel Leica went overboard with unnecessary tech without processing power backing it. Slow start-up time, freezing might be because of that.Not sure why they cant get better AWB, especially for a premium product. Fuji gets it, Sony gets it, canon does.
Is the zine shot on Canon or M11-P?
M11-p and mp :)
@@MikeChudley Just grabbed an M-11p today. Any tips for settings?
@@timmysutton Yep! I have a full video on my go-to settings :) hope it helps.
If I don't see another video title with "my...honest..." I'll be elated...
I would expect it to be an "honest" opinon, otherwise what is it?? ...ohhhh, a lie/sham😮
Yeah. I lie in every single one of my other videos. It’s all fake.
Not this one though, this one is truthful. Promise.
@@MikeChudley I'm not implying you're lying, I'm saying putting "honest" implies any other opinion is not "honest".
You totally missed it..
So the only difference between this and the Pixii is the price and battery life then with the freezing issue. Haha
Pixii does not have a mechanical shutter.
Mate maybe the old Leica isn’t for you.
Dollar? I thought you were British
Most my audience is not the UK. So just addressing the currency most would use.
@@MikeChudley fair enough
sorry but I always thought that photography was about capturing a good image, have I missed the point?
Photography is about acquiring new gear! Spending loads of money and time and effort on things that make you look cool. Forget the photos, nobody cares about that. It’s all about the red dot. Obviously.