Lord Toranaga Faces the Council of Regents - Scene | Shōgun | FX
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- With the Taikō gone, the old rules no longer apply. FX's Shōgun is now streaming on Hulu.
Shōgun, Episode 1.
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#Shogun #FX
Based on James Clavell’s novel, FX’s Shōgun is set in Japan in the year 1600 at the dawn of a century-defining civil war. Lord Yoshii Toranaga is fighting for his life as his enemies on the Council of Regents unite against him, when a mysterious European ship is found marooned in a nearby fishing village.
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Lord Toranaga Faces the Council of Regents - Scene | Shōgun | FX
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That was intense!
Please release the series on 4k blu ray when it's finished!!
Yeah, if you are easily pleased.
"The lady is no more a hostage in my castle than I am here, in this one." The brilliance of that sentence and delivery.
Almost a subtle threat. I love the writing
Yes. Both Toranaga and Ishido know perfectly well what the true situation is. But manners and protocol demand they maintain a facade of politeness.
Manners and protocol demand…
Fascinating
Ikr, I was thinking "well played" in my head the whole time
It’s a figure of speech from classical rhetoric: a comparison/metaphor. Good scenarist.
"How dare you imply that Lord Ishido insulted me?"
The complexity of this line (and the masterful delivery) is amazing. Reprimanding his vassal sharply enough as is required of him by honor, but in the same breath questioning the honor of his peer, who by the rules of politeness, he cannot directly insult.
To be fair the Japanese is more subtle. The actual Japanese is "石堂殿はいつ非礼なことを申された？" which translates to "When did Lord Ishido state an insult?" Which is questioning his underlying's judgment, but at the same time poses a rhetorical question to put Ishido on the spot.
@@Akiss Are they speaking ancient Japanese language in this scene? From which era?
@@alexsky88749 Era is turn of the 17th century (1600s) so it's medieval Japanese. The speaking style is very formal and proper but Ishido's words are dripping with indignation.
@@alexsky88749 yes they use archaic Japanese accurate to the early 1600s. It’s about as different from modern Japanese as Shakespeare’s English is to modern English across the same time span: intelligible but noticeably different
Yeah and end result was he put the vassal to death
It’s insane how well Torunaga plays the long game. He is so outnumbered in that room and yet he doesn’t even flinch.
I love the tone of Hiroyuki Sanada voice. Good to know they hired well known japanese actors, whether they were born Japan or U.S., they know the culture more then we do.
He's a producer
It's best to simply assume they know the culture more than you do. I'm unsure if it's wise to assume beyond that.
I visited Osaka Castle. And they recreated the interior atmosphere authentically and beautifully.
Actually the original Hideyoshi Osaka castle was all burned down by Tokugawa clan. Today’s castle is a recreation too.
I especially like how they faithfully recreated the disabled-access elevator.
@@thejoin4687 LOL...Go Tigers!
Tell me you're a liar without telling me you're a liar. The interior of Osaka Castle is a very modern museum. It's a good museum, but nothing traditional remains.
Although the buildings are rebuilt, the stone foundations and surrounding moats remain original, which are worth watching.
これを見るがために日本で見れるディズニー+に入ってみた。1話の脇役の尼さんの表情、目線、言い回し、全てにおいて演技が上手でとても良かった。
Hiroyuki Sanada is such a great actor . Everything in this part was so well done , the cinematography and the detail is very well made . I can't wait to watch the next episode ⚔️⚔️⚔️ .
you should see his action films from the 80's and 90"s. All time favoriate "Ninja in Dragon Den" a Hong Kong action film
Toshiro Mifune was better.
A lot of fantastic actors in this show.
He's good but I'm tired of seeing him in every Japanese role the western film industry has to offer.
This is authentic Japanese historical drama. Up until now, Japanese historical dramas produced by people overseas have always felt strange to Japanese people. I am using Google Translate, so please forgive me if there are any mistakes in English.
From Japan
no need to apologize.... i will now commit sudoku because i read your statement in a robotic voice... LOL
@@iambiggus lol.... it improved my math ability....
Unsure how it is authentic Japanese when the book was written by an English author? Do Japanese people feel this book represents their history and culture well?
@@Charlie_Ses toranaga himself is a showrunner/producer.... they hired japanease crew and actors even the catering is japanese and every actor was trained on japanese formal speaking of the era... they had a 80s version of this show and that was a hit in the western countries but failed in japan... this new version is actually hit in japan which means the japanese people see it as authentic....
No forgiveness is required.
The thing is, the council isn’t wrong about Toranaga’s ambitions. Granted, Ishido also seems to be gunning for power, but all of Toranaga’s actions point to him attempting to seize control of Japan. Fief’s don’t typically just double in size on their own.
Precisely. Polítical alliances through marriage and friendship. A ruler wouldn't allow a vassal to grow too powerful, otherwise he'd lose his own power
Unless you are astutely realising that the others in the same council as you are ganging up on you, so you need to increase your resources in order to be able to defend from perceived threat. It works both ways :)
Hideyoshi died leaving a heir too young to seize power. Granted, those council members would inevitably struggle and go to war for power.
It happened in ancient Rome, too... After Julius Caesar was assassinated, Octavianus and Mark Anthony had a last final battle that settled the civil war.
Remember, if you win it wasn't a revolt
@@Curling12341 Is that you, Blackthorne?
Hope this will start more funding for Japanese projects. Japan has a lot of talented directors and actors and also really creative plots but they lack the funding.
Japan has plenty of funding and industry for creative projects. At most, they could use some international recognition for the great stuff they're producing.
Though, I won't complain if they get international funding too, as long as they get acknowledged.
@@LibertyMonk With the funding comes meddling, the west did enough damage to Japan in the past to last an eternity.
A lot of place has talented directors and actors, but lack funding; that's like half of the world - what's your point?
I love how the focus and narrative is now being shared and not just from Blackthorn’s point of view. Well done, Creatives. First two eps are fantastic
no one wants another white savior story only told from the one white guy's POV and important people like Shogun are background Asian tokens.
You can see Sanada’s attention to detail both as an actor and as a producer, he really took the time to make sure the authenticity of the dialogue and the sets be the best he can make it to be
IIRC He is quite vocal about how he find foreign filmmakers got Japanese culture wrong rather annoying after he saw it too many time. Now that he is the one calling the shot in the show, he made sure the show got everything right and enlisted Japanese talents into the show to create authentic experience.
I still like the 80's series better.
@@xhagast -Agreed..Chamberlain and Shimada were sublime...Even though the yobo they got to play Blackthorne was probably more historically accurate to Adams.
@@projektkobra2247 I don't know, the actor plays him...weak. Chamberlain was, as you say, sublime.
@@projektkobra2247 Oh yes, Shimada who had 2 facial expressions the whole show, surprised and sad.
Imagine running your mouth and now you have to beg for permission to delete yourself and your family
Yeah, Samurai era japan wasn't just for anybody
Imagine if this was the fate of all keyboard warriors
well the baby dies because of his action and he get to live
@@amitpadgaonkar8830 I ask the permission to commit sudoku.
would that our politicians followed the same logic!
Oh my oh my... I was expecting some modern day Hollywood crapshow but this right here has a LOT of potential. I am pleased.
They won't dare LGBT up samurai era japan story,s be it fake onces or real onces
@@ryufight7987 Never say never bro. They made Zeus black, Cleopatra black and worse. Never say never with those scumbags.
@@ryufight7987 "LGBT up samurai era" LOL, you really wouldn't like the actual history of the samurai then, particularly in the time period this is set in.
@@stefanlvkc7986 Here it comes... the make believe history...
@@stefanlvkc7986 Dude these types of people are hilarious lmao. They see "wokeness" everywhere and blame the "liberal agenda" for everything going wrong. The show is great tho lol
全く違和感がない凄い緊張感。
葵三代は名作だと再認識
In the book the samurai's request to commit seppuku is denied. He is sentenced to crawl to his death, which will be by crucifixion, his swords will be broken and buried in the eta village. After he leaves Toranaga thinks to himself "He will born again samurai."
1:33 look at Tadayoshi literally shaking, that is serious devotion to his lord
More like a hot head, the only true devotion i can think of is Toda Hiromatsu
I’m sure Toranaga instructed him and the other retainers to keep their mouths shut no matter what before that meeting. Tadayoshi was too egotistical and emotionally weak to obey that simple instruction.
He caused Toronaga to apologize, talk about backfiring
@@Hermit_Ronin Modern day snowflakes, judging someone thousands times braver and stronger. lmao
In the original mini-series, Ishido looked like a Yakuza, which I liked.
Here he almost looks like Toranaga himself.
Which I like even better.
武士の身のこなしが良い。見る人に聞かせるための会話の間も良い。カメラを引いて要素要素で上半身、全身をしっかり見せてるのでそれがよくわかる。若いアクターも指導が行き届いてるのがよくわかるがもうちょっと表情に変化もしくは汗をかけたらよかったかなとは思うけども。昨今の日本のなんちゃって時代劇ドラマとは格が違う
このTVシリーズの出演者は、監督の虎永役の俳優さんが全部自分で選んだんですか？
Not me watching every single snippet from Shogun that FX puts out. 😄 and this is after watching the episodes. 😂
One of the greatest shows to hit in my lifetime. I am so excited for next episode. Thank you FX!
It's a beautifully recreated scene from the book.
Samurai were very proud to start, so having your liege lord humiliated in such a way would naturally be reasonable cause to feel insulted and react with violence.
Ishido may have wished to provoke such an incident to justify his move against Toranaga.
Basic politics... in a struggle for power, the strongest candidate should be the first to take down.
If you are not already familiar with it, you would be interested in the story of the Forty-seven Ronin.
That's right. In the book it explains that Ishido said what he said deliberately, in order to provoke a violent reaction.
@@halleck3 Same concept in the story of the Forty-Seven Ronin.
That's the basic srategy against prideful people. Provoke them to get the reaction that benefits you.
@@markhatfield5621
Screw Clavell, he is butchering the original source with his crappy fantasies
then he walks away to exit toward Toranaga's men
A power move. Straight savage
He had just managed to provoke one of Toranaga's vassals into acting out of line, forcing him to request for ritual suicide as penance and extracted an apology from Toranaga. He has reason to feel smug.
@@Remitonov He wasn't forced to request suicide he wanted to prove something to make the situation better by requesting that but he didn't forgive Toranaga now he really has to die and that is a sign Toranaga will soon die too.
This scene was insane
And where it resolved is even crazier
@@KazaHir093 just goes to show how savage the Japanese are in the name of "honor" 😂
“Though, I must say this childish outburst is typical of your clan” - Lord Ishido
He has come a long way from chasing Godzilla to ruling Japan. My man is a Boss!
This scene had a great influence on Toranaga's future actions.
from japan😊
Seki…uhm…let’s not talk about it yet
funnily enough, it was the Tozama families of Sekigahara that brought the eventual downfall of the Tokugawa Shoguns.
Every word is spoke to perfection. The writers on this show produced it wonderfully
I just love the Gagaku instruments playing in the background
The show is incredible . It left me breathless . I need to rewatch the first 2 episodes , as there are so many details that i might have missed .
finally a series that not felt cheap and so far you can see the passion of their project.
i like how almost all the dialogue is in japanese, real authenticity
3:09
Talk about literally crossing the line
I love ishido's actor. He's more badass than his book counterpart.
Has that villanous look in himself (funnily enough Toranaga is the true villain here lol)
Wait whaaa?! He's the villain?
@@sproutedcoconut xD yes. If you take a close look at the details you will realise the council is on the right side here.
@@rishavpaudel5021I feel like villain is the wrong word here. Toranaga is certainly ambitious; but the council of regents are also operating on their own goals, maintaining the status quo. Whether that’s good or bad depends entirely on your perspective. Tokugawa Ieyesu,Toranaga’s real life counterpart, seized power like a tyrant, murdered hundreds of Christians, and started Japans 200+ years of isolation. However, he also put a formal end to the warring states period, filled a power vacuum, stabilized the nation, and created a stable dynasty that lasted over 200 years.
Villain? Because he wants to take the country for himself and usurp his late master's legacy? Well, his master had done so himself to his own former liege, so what's there to complain about?
@@Quinntus79Nobunaga and Hideyoshi ended the warring period. Tokugawa restarted it for the sake of his ambitions
"Tokugawa Ieyasu face Toyotomi's regents"
Title fixed
this was as intense as any action scene ever, palpable tension…my heart was racing.
There’s a film called Sekigahara which depicts real life Japanese figures where most of these characters in this movies are based on. The guy that played Ishido in this series was also in the movie and played as one of Ishida Mitunsari (Ishido) commanders.
The Japanese were apparently imprisoned in their honour codes and local rivalries. Therefore the national administration became the most stable equilibrium condition, with larger empires tending to lose cohesion.
Truly believable character! Nice job! 👍
古めかしい日本語を喋っているのだけれど翻訳で雰囲気が伝わっているのだろうか
They speak in very old Japanese phrases, but I wonder if the translation recreates that atmosphere.
It does
@@ytuseracctIt doesn’t. The translators are writing modern English.
ここで見られる英語の翻訳は現代語であり、古さを感じさせません。 Google翻訳を使用しましたので、間違いがあればご容赦ください。
Shakespeare lived in roughly the same era as the late Sengoku period depicted in SHOGUN.
From what I've researched, it seems Shakespeare's plays are performed in the English of his time, but since SHOGUN is ultimately entertainment, it need to reach a wide audience.
The people who go to see Shakespeare's plays are undoubtedly well-educated and cultured.
However, from a Japanese perspective, it would be disappointing if the samurai spoke modern Japanese.
That being said, for Japanese people, watching dramas or movies set in medieval Europe where the characters speak modern English doesn't feel particularly odd or out of place, so it's probably a similar situation.
Love the Japanese old style politicians how they say something only to be blocked by another word "Chess" using words is a better description
This series is amazing
I watched the series as a boy. Then I read both books from my grandfathers library. The book is sooo good.
Thank you for making this show as incredible as the best show I ever watch. I can’t wait to see next episode. Thanks for making it and I love you all.
That's the real armour of toyotomi Hideyoshi in the background , the real life council were made of real life damiyo like Tokugawa Ieyasu , Uesugi Kagekatsu , Maeda Toshiie , Ukita Hideie and Mōri Terumoto to help Hideyori until he came of age after Hideyoshi's death
In the end , Tokugawa Leyasu won and the Tokugawa Shogunate ruled Japan for the next 200+ years.
Ishida mitsuri
Yep, then he executed a bunch of Christians, and kicked out the Portuguese; because the Dutch were offering guns, and not religion.
How many in the real historical Council of the Five Elders were Christians? How important were Christianity and Catholicism in the real power struggle in the end of the Sengoku Period?
@@torogoz2001 Not that much actually. But they did play some role after Tokugawa unified the country by starting a few rebellions.
@@torogoz2001 none. Not important at all. Only one potentially may become one was Nobunaga, but he was assassinated so lesser warlords like Tokugawa has a chance to become Shogun.
@@torogoz2001 Hideyoshi had started a mild Christian persecution in his time, so there was never any chance for a Christian to have joined the Council. Tokugawa was the one who went all the way with the formal persecution, but it started in Hideyoshi's time. The most powerful Christian Daimyo at the time of Hideyoshi's death was his former general Konishi Yukinaga (a Catholic), but his role in the following conflicts was minor.
I'm not sure if it was implied or not, since there are a lot of changes from the book, but this scene is actually more intense because of the background.
The "minowara" insult was deliberate and planned, as agreed upon by Isido and Oh No (the leper), and the main target is Naga, Toranaga's youngest son, who is known to be a hothead. Ishido is willing to die if it ensures that Toranaga will die with him. Ishido is a lot of things, but one of his best qualities is his true loyalty to the taiko's heir. I think that is why he walks toward the Toranaga samurai's side when he exits.
When the young samurai stood up, Hiromatsu (the old guy who brought Anjin san to Osaka) was ready to cut down the samurai since he and Toranaga understood Ishido's ploy. But the young samurai stopped himself. He was old Hiromatsu's favorite son-in-law (or nephew?) and it broke the old man's heart knowing the samurai along with his favorite grandson is now dead, because of what happened. Both he and Tora both vowed that Ishido would pay.
Phenomenal acting! I truly think this will be the role Hiroyuki Sanada will be known for for years to come, which is saying something considering all his iconic roles. Come check out our Episode reviews & join the discussion.
This perfectly depicts the passive aggressive bullying, fueled by envy, greed, and competition, that even occurs to this day in Japanese society. The noble and just are often ganged up on by the jealous even today. Well done!
I am reading the book right now and just read this scene last night.
When will the third episode air, I can't wait
Next week on Tuesday.
@@AidanaTrachtenbergHow I cannot wait for the next week. It will pass for me as if it were several months.🥺 Thank you, my friend
The attention to detail is just... "WTF" af!
The actor playing Ishido might be my favorite. The smirk, the contempt he has for Toranaga is just perfect!
Dialogie and use of tension is amazing in this show.
Its quite and alien world but it makes complete sense and you can absolutely feel these new boundaries and realities.
The way all the samurai relax on Ishido's word, or the incremental escalation by first samurai putting feet in mat. Amazing show.
The council was right. He was comploting for total power after all. Genius.
A single misunderstood word could end your whole family. No wonder discipline were passed down up to this generation
The REAL game of thrones!
He didn't insult me!
Insults him profoundly.
After "Prey" I still want a Predator movie set in Feudal Japan with Hiroyuki Sanada as the Samurai turned Ronin, hunting the Predator that hunted and slew his liege lord.
I mean, I want to give my money away to watch this!
Toranaga sama is masterful at stalling until the right time for Crimson Sky.
Masterwork stellar Cast
The more I see of Hiroyuki Sanada in this show 🔥🔥the further my hope and prayers go that he is cast as Lord Shimura in the Ghost Of Tsushima movie!!!!!
No one seems to mention the powermove of him walking straight into the guard of his enemy. He knows they want him dead, they know he knows, yet he still walks straight into them. After denying them the right to kill themselves, that's prodigious.
The series is massive, but for those of you who didnt read it, the book is 10x better.
Nah, 📚 reading books is not for everyone . ( I personally do like the book to )
Comparing the show to a book is not fair. A book leaves a lot for your own imagination .One should compare this show to the O.G. 80 version mini series
Both are great 👍🏼 but this new version has more detail to the Japanese p.o.v ❤ 😊
Don’t feel like reading wall to wall of words
You should probably mention there’s two more books lol
I disagree. The books have their own strengths. The show has its own strengths. Both are valid.
I’m a big fan of James Clavell since Shogun was published (such a long time ago!). His other works like Taipan, King Rat, Noble House were gripping but I find Shogun the best. Plan to re-read Shogun before catching the miniseries.
Can't wait for more episodes love this show
I have no idea what this is, but this stumbled onto my feed, and looks amazing!
Toranaga-Sama is the GOAT
was expecting tom cruise to appear and defend toranaga 😅
これが受けるなら、大奥とか、他の戦国モノもヒットしそう…
織田信長の話とか、風林火山とか。
The translation is not great, but the costumes and set pieces are fabulous.
This scene was so well made!
Excellent first episodes. Clearly powered & influenced by Japanese filmmaking. Slow tense build up, not the Hollywood Tom Cruise crap.
Noticed the same thing
Can't wait until I have time to watch this!
Ishido reminds me a lot of tywin lannister
beautiful Japanese language the way high class samurai talks, which is hard to translate.
Best thing about this scene is how the audience is tricked to believe that Tadayoshi’s “childish outburst” is somehow forgiven after 4:27 with a relief of tension. Guards stand down and Ishido just says a few words about it casually and then moves on to the next topic.
But no… we later find out that Tadayoshi committed seppuku and killed his only child. No biggie, it’s just what happens when you interrupt a meeting between dad and his colleagues.
I LOVE that line: "The Lady is no more a hostage in my castle than I am here, in this one." The threat is exquisitely veiled.
From a young age, we are taught that words have a soul and that we should be responsible for our words. Record your daily thoughts and hopes for the future in a diary.
For some reason, I'm now remembering something my parents said to me when I was seven years old.
I wonder if that diary is still in the attic...
I remember a good environment in which my mother valued words and looked after the children of the entire village as if they were her own. They may be a rare sight now, but they still exist in capital cities outside of urban areas.
Carrying a mikoshi, making a New Year's visit, being grateful for being alive, praying at the graves of ancestors, celebrating childbirth, visiting shrines from birth to 3, 5, 7, and unlucky years, and getting married at a church.
I can't help but accept it. I think it looks even weirder to people overseas. If you are traveling to Japan, be sure to discover and enjoy the mysterious Japan, where water, mountains, rivers, oceans, rocks, and the spirits of nature are believed to dwell.
Feudal Japan was a serious place by standing up and speaking out of turn he ended his entire bloodline by his own hand
Great novel. This version plods.
Hiroyuki Sanada's expressions are priceless.
前作とだいぶ内容が違う。
今回のエピソードは、歴史に沿っているように感じました。
And sometimes later Tom Cruise come cruising down with a Gatling Gun
Council of Regents needs to go to Big Lots-sama for a couple sofas. Maybe a sectional.
I remember the leper daimyo from the book. Cool thing they put him into this series.
秀吉が中国に出兵したのは、世界情勢で必要だったからだと理解した。
Brooo Hiromatsu was sweating knowing that Tadayoshi doomed his grea grandkid lol
Samurai moment ⚔️
An excellent kabuki actor
Can wear his own face like a mask...
Great scene 👏👏👏
Would love it more if they had used their true historical names instead.
Hmmm.
Maybe I'll watch this.
this was better than game of thrones
They need to make a series for Toyotomi Hideyoshi, the Taiko himself.
2 episodes in this show is already a masterpiece
Sure I wished to return them all but could not gain support
Very interesting!
Does the way tadayoshi poses when he crosses the threshold resemble the theatrical poses of classical theatre in Japan to anyone else or am I tripping?
I ATE all of them
So much like the war of the roses or when mad Charles was on the throne of France…if you strip away the surface…it’s all the same…
Why one of the lords covered so much and even put a screen?
he has leprosy
@@Threshk Oh, thanks. I thought that lord is a women.