Come on now, he is 24!!! He won almost every race he was in this year. Give him a break, he broke his wrist and still made it to the TDF and made the race exciting.
Absolutely! This is what Pogacar can do with hardly any proper race preparation due to his injury then Jumbo and Vingegaard should be worried for TDF 2024. I’ve been watching buke races for 30 years or so and Tadej Pogacar is the best rider I’ve ever seen. Your analysis is correct for he made the race super entertaining with his will to win and attacks. He’s not only strong physically but mentally too. I have no doubt if he hadn’t been injured and rode either Criterium De Dauphine or Tour de Suisse he would have won this years TDF
@@silverarrowslk think of that! The guy does no racing basically before the Tour after breaking his wrist?? Which is one of the biggest components of the body riding the bike!! Then he goes on to win multiple stages, including the last Mountain stage after bonking so hard a few days earlier. And we even question if his dominance is over? If anything we all should be praising his fight, determination, and heart. I will say that Jones was the better rider for sure this one. He descended better the Pogacar, and this was due to the wrist issues I am sure, and fear of crashing again and just being safe. But Jonas was 100% badass out there, climbing better, time trial better, and downhill better. But certainly, if the roles were reversed I think Jonas would have faced the same issues Pogacar was dealing with. Both will win many races and for their ages, each will be a dominator in their own way in the near future many times.
I still think he dominated this year, tbh. He was in the discussion of the milan san remo, won tour of flandres and he would have won the tripple in the ardennes if not for a fall on lbl. Only 2 people ever made the ardennes triple, and he would have done it in the same year he also won the tour of flandres... He also won the paris nice, finished 2 at the Tour, and lets see what more he races till the end of the season... He can still also win his second monument of the season and put on a show in several other classics
Agreed. Which is why, for mine, he is still the No. 1 ranked rider. The analysis of his GT record is interesting, but you could equally say the 2019 Vuelta was a learning experience, and had that race gone a few more days, or TP had found form a little earlier in his first 3 week race, Roglic would have been in trouble. 2020 and his taking back time was done such that even with Bernal there none of the others could've followed, whilst 2021 he was head and shoulders above the rest (why be putting the hammer down in the 3rd week when you have a 5 minute lead?). The last 2 years though it stacks up, something (multiple things really) has gone wrong each year so as Chris says he and his team have their work cut out now.
Not only that, he also wins quite series champion ship. But his crash Liege-Baskenaken-Liege is likely crucial and got surgery of his hand which prevents him to train for the Tour. idk about you but I have enjoyed a lot from Pogacar.
I for one would love to see Vingo rock up at LBL Fleche and Lombardy and try to beat Tadej, Vingo is a Indrian & Froome, although Chris tried to win the worlds TT after the tour will vingo doubt it
@@tvsmedNo he is not. He has won Gran Camino, Tour of the Basque country and Criterium du Dauphiné. +3rd in Paris-Nice. That's being very visible. He is not well suited for one day races, because he needs several days to wear his competitors down.
I like how Tadej basically said “No mas” after being dropped in the Tour, but then roared back to win a stage and animate the final day. He’s a beast, basically. Has the big win mentality, the go hard or go home mindset. Love the guy!
Congratulations, Tadej, on your MSR victory. Whatever year that was. 🛋️🦋 One rider who didn't have any bad days and was always in top form and free of knuckleheadism was Chris Horner in this year's TDF coverage and analysis. Thanks for all your, and Garrett's, work.
My personal observations. Tadej Pogacar is a rider who rides less strategically and more on instinct. That sometimes means that he is wasting energy when he does not necessarily need to. Tadej does not always show patience or stick to a strategy although I think he has done so more recently. Tadej is more of a punchy type of climber, just as is Roglic. In other words, he hopes to stay on until the end when he can use his kick to win. And that has been very effective. Vingegaard is a classic pure climber who lacks the punch at the end. But on the long climbs, he can go and go well beyond nearly any other rider. I believe that is why Jumbo Visma used a team that was characterized as a classics team to back up Vingegaard. Jumbo Visma had a team of super rolleurs who were used to break down Pogacar and his team. In this TdF, it worked. There is the other thing of rider personalities. Pogacar is one of the most outgoing and charismatic riders ever to dominate in the peloton. He is also a rider who rides so much on instinct which is great when the rider is young, but less effective as he gets older (not that Pogacar is older). But sometimes instinct ends up in the waste of energy. Vingegaard is far more introverted and introspective. Vingegaard spent a lot of time with his team working on the ITT course, dissecting it and learning all the curves. I also think Vingegaard is, in terms of his personality, far more patient.
Maybe it's just me...but....Tadej being called the new Cannibal has a reason....this youngster is not even 25 and already won more than anyone his age in history except Eddy himself at that age!!!!
My rider of the season, so far. Every one of his wins have been spectacular, burning off the competition, Tour of Flander, Amstel Gold and Fleche wallone. If he wins Lombardy, he seals the deal. World championship? At that moment the cannibal comparisons are real. I think the fact that he hung so long to Jonas was in itself exceptional. Jonas is without doubt the top Grand Tour dog, so that was no mean feat by Pogacar. I wonder if Pogacar doesn't the on the Giro and Vuelta next year and leave the Tour to Jonas and Remco (it won't be in Paris because of the Olympics, so maybe it isn't a big loss). Then launch into the Tour in 2025 renewed?
@mercedesvlos you don't know that. He will likely lose a lot of his kick but there's a decent chance he'll have more endurance which typically happens in your early 30s.
What's really interesting is that if Jonas wasn't competing and winning no one would be discussing or even considering this because Pogi would've just won his 4th straight TDF. A more likely question from Chris would've been, "when can we declare Tadej the GOAT?" I'm a retired AT&T Communication analyst so I'm going to address this like I would have approached all of my previous assignments by just reviewing the data. The data (race results) over the past 3 TDFs show a remarkable correlation with results, TJV strategy, and rider physiology (the science). The physiology: Pogi is a unique blend: an excellent endurance athlete (type I fibers) with remarkable explosiveness (type II fibers). Jonas is more type I with less type II compared to Pogi. The difference here is that while more explosive and sprint capable , the type II fibers are less fatigue resistant. You can only carry so much muscle fibers based on your optimal size and weight, so your overall distribution of fibers dictate how much fatigue resistant fibers you carry into an event. That being said, the more endurance trained you are and more type I fibers you have, the better recoverability you have as well. The results: Other things being equal, you would expect Tadej to have the advantage on sprints and punchy climbs, whereas you would expect the lighter Jonas with higher distribution of Type I fibers to have the edge on very long, difficult stages and perhaps even recover a little easier between these very hard stages just based on physiology. This is exactly what we are seeing. Tadej is consistently stronger the first half of the TDF compared to Jonas but also starts to fade quicker than Jonas in the last week which is typically where the stages get harder as well. This is consistent even with the ITTs. Results show Tadej has a big edge on the ITT when they occur early in the tour and that flips towards Jonas late in the tour. This is also the case with the gaps Tadej can create when he accelerates. Late in the tour, Pogi's sprints are easier to match by Jonas. Call it fading, attrition, or fatigue but it is obvious and consistent across all of the tours they have competed together. So what's up with stage 5 in which Jonas attacked and took a minute? This stage is an anomaly due to the difficulty caused by Jai and the large group in the breakaway on UAE and Tadej. UAE tried their best to control it and were full gas the whole way unsuccessfully. This very high pace impacts Tadej more than it does Jonas. TJV strategy: Their strategy is simple and lines up with the physiology and results. Make the stages as hard as possible on UAE and especially Tadej assuming that fatigue will impact him more than Jonas and set them up to take big time in the latter ITT and stage 17. Which is exactly what happened. Jai and the breakaway did this for Jumbo on stage 5. Jumbo miscalculated and thought the the stage 5 results were a sign of a hurt or out of form Tadej which wasn't the case with Jonas towing him along. UAE needs to find a way to make Tadej more durable and/or slow the general pace down.
I’d like to point out the heat this year and how genetics, physiology and preparation for the heat play a huge role. Some people are naturally able to withstand the heat and perform well in it where others fade more quickly. It could be that Jonas is much more heat acclimated than Pogi meaning that the conditions suited him better this year. That’s not at all to detract from Jonas’s impressive abilities on the bike just a factor that I have yet to hear mentioned from anyone.
Fair point. And perhaps relevant (I’ve not compared the actual recorded temps) that Pogi’s first TDF crown came during the Covid year when the Tour was held in September.
i still dont know why pogie had such huge struggles this tour (other than if he wasnt fully trained due to time off the bike, which seems likely). i dont think anyone knows, maybe he doesnt even know. but he is still the best rider in the world. the ability to win so many different types of races makes him #1 to me. and he is just cooler than anybody else!
He participates many tours, world championships, european championships this year but his crash Liege could be crucial, which prevents him to train for the Tour exception of last 2 weeks.
It's a treat to watch a gt champion who can win everything and even better wants to and does. Just this year msr animated main marked man. Andelucia, Paris nice against Jonas, record fast Flanders against wout and vdp and best rouleur, Amstel and fleche against best puncheurs only crash prevented possible triple. Tadej has season every rouleur, puncheur, gc rider would all admire. Brakes wrist still rides tour and by far most entertaining rider with phillipsen. Won't win field sprint but reduced bunch he's fantastic just to stay in frame on e3 sprint finish with Mathieu and wout. He's best rider in world and it's not close. He's still qualifies for white. Talk about victim of your own success. He's better than us on the bike and in a lot of ways he's so mature and professional off it. In his 5 gt's he's won 14stages . Won the tour at 20 years old. Looks grim ? Didn't race for 6 weeks steps into tour and fades in 3rd week that's surprising
Pogacar had an inadequate prep for the Tour de France and still finished second, won two stages, the white jersey and was within ten seconds till the last week. Add to that the spring classic wins. Most riders would dream of his one year (bad according to the commentators) palmares for their whole career. Jonas focused on one target while Tadej had multiple targets and I think did pretty good. I love the Tour, but I am growing tired of this overblown notion that the Tour is the only race.
"Pogacar had an inadequate prep for the Tour de France" Who the hell cares. If you are NOT prepared the TDF is NOT for you. Poor subtle excuse. And It keeps popping up. Here's the thing. Had he won, it would've been: "Pogacar was not 100% fit yet he won"
@@savagepro9060 why can’t the comment be that he arrived with an adequate prep AND came in second, two stage wins and put the overall winner to the test?
@@Soli11 I think that he has trained to peak for the Tour and then to come in at whatever percentage he needs to be to serve their purposes at the Vuelta. Clearly the field there will be vastly different than at the Tour (likely easier?)
@@savagepro9060 He had injury couple weeks before TdF. I would say that is a pretty good excuse to not be 100% and still be second in TdF and even have dominant moments.
Have we pigeon holes him with GC success being his lasting impact when maybe he was the best for those two years and is just such a powerful all round rider that he can challenge for GC in the TdF? Like he is winning classics & tours, and can sprint. He’s probably top 3 GC & classics riders & whilst winning the TdF is the pinnacle, should we start looking at his dominance over classics, week & GTs? Rather than solely on the TdF? I wouldn’t be surprised if he wins worlds too. JV won’t win worlds, or any classics, but could win 5 tours, but TP can win them all.
I'd like to see in 2024, hoping he can be better on tactic from 4 years of TDF experience, and definitely healthier. And see if JV can repeat the victories
Pogacar is certainly a GC GT rider and one of the best of them but maybe as you said even a better classic rider and one week rider then the rest of the world. 🤔👊🦋🔥💥
There are definitely classics Jonas is capable of winning. Pogo is definitely better than him in one day races. But the best rider doesn't always win. You just have to be the best on that day.
@@veganpotterthevegan TP has a better chance at winning than JV, but it’s more about not viewing TP as a pure GC rider in terms of his accomplishments, instead of one of the best ever all rounders. JV on the other hand whilst capable, is less likely to win a one day race, but will go down as one of the best 3 week GC riders.
He only has 3 of the 5 monuments Chris. Your analysis of GC longevity and the causes of any 'jour sans' is however spot on. Matej Mohoric is the Slovenian with MSR on his palmares.
The history of bike racing is consistent with your assessment that it is hard to go more than approximately ten years at the highest level. The level of focused effort required, plus the odds of injury or illness, make it hard to go beyond that window. Of course, five more years of Tadaj versus Jonas is something to look forward to.
I'll go out on a limb and say Pogacar is just too young yet! Despite his enormous talent, he still hasn't fully matured as far as endurance sports are concerned. If I'm right, tactics, teammates and DS aside, he will solve his Grand Tour consistency problems in future tours. And it appears Pogacar wants to be known as an great all-around rider, not just Classics or Grand Tours. Maybe he wants that same legendary status as Eddie Merckx by the time he's done racing?
Doubtful. He has too many off-days in a three week race to hold up. If he's up against Vingegaard, he will lose everytime bar accidents and injuries. He's a spectacular rider, but he loses out on five points: off-days (inconsistency), long mountain stages in high altitudes, time trial, heat and recuperation.
You might be on to something. It’s possible he wants to accomplish other things before solely focusing on the grand tours. He’s also having a lot of fun on his bike as well he should. It may be possible in a few years after he’s accomplished other goals and ages a bit (let’s face it the older you get the less you can do in a year) he solely focuses on the Tour de France, he could dominate and get his 3 wins. That would be incredible.
@@mikkelhagen9177I saw somewhere that UAE doctor said that actually his biggest strength is being able to recover so fast that he's never seen this before. I suppose this is right since he races the whole year, but exactly bc of that eventually tiredness builds up at the end of the Tour. I'm curious to see what would be the outcome of this year's Tour if he had focused only on that as Jonas did.
I think the same, he is so young. There is time to improve and solve any issues/ weakness. People are overreacting. Pog himself admitted that the injury prevented him to train and do all the things needed to win the tour.
I hope he'll stay an all-around rider. Many Danes are angry he doesn't even care to ride the Tour of Denmark. Pogi said it was more important for him to win Flanders than France this year!
My opinion, JV knew they had to make him race hard several days and he always will then have a bad day. JV did not make a mistake even when Pogi won the stage because they knew it would cause a Crack later
Well as far as the TdF is concerned despite popular and Chris’ belief it never really started. In 2020 he benefited massively from the fact that JV underestimated him completely, he was under their coattails for three weeks and they even let him get back some time that he had lost before because he was that nice young Slovenian countryman of Primoz. And in 2021 his only rival in Roglic crashed out, and he beat up a bunch of riders that he is still beating up today. Even then his second part of the Tour was less strong already, which kind of prompted JV to start thinking about the attrition approach. Mind you, without the rise of Vingegard and the JV superteam and strategy he could easily already have four TdFs, he was still way better than anyone else on this Tour.
@@CFCMahomet Agreed, although as long as Pogacar is there it will never be as simple for JV as it was for Sky/ Ineos, and let’s hope that Remco, Ayuso etc will make it a lot more interesting as well!
The 2020 explanation is not a very good one. Roglic wasn't even the clear leader of Jumbo coming into the Tour and certainly not the favorite to win it. He may have emerged as such into the race was but it was very tight after two weeks with multiple riders within a minute or so. Pogi was one of many on the radar and and certainly familiar to Jumbo's after he podiumed behind Roglic in the Vuelta in the previous fall. 2021 he beat Jonas which you failed to mention. You could make similar statements about Jonas. The tour last year could have been over on the cobbles if it wasn't for Wout saving Jonas. Having the decoy of Primoz didn't hurt either. This year Pogi obviously had a terrible day and Jonas had a superhuman one but it was pretty damn close before that, especially considering the injury. How many more hits to his palmares is Wout willing to take for Jonas before he makes a move. He literally has the best domestique I've and ever seen and has some clear team advantages that Pogi does not. I don't thin this story is over.
It's funny how we are all of a sudden pointing out his weaknesses, while we were listening for more than a month how Jonas has little chance to win and how Pogačar lost last year because of his own mistakes and not because Jonas was simply the best.. How times change, huh?
Last year Tadej's mistakes cost him more. This year he was less fit and this cost him more...of course had he not sprinted like a mad man at the end of every stage maybe he would have more left in the 3rd week.
Chris, I’ve been laid up all month after a 40mph crash. Just now on the mend. Your excellent TDF coverage helped keep me sane/give me something to look forward to. Really appreciate it!
He has "only" won 3 different monuments: Flanders, Liege and Lombardia (Twice). He hasn't won San-Remo or Roubaix. But he will definitely be up there fighting for the win in the coming years if he chooses to participate in San-Remo (for the 3rd time) and Roubaix (would be his debut, but he had a great race on the Roubaix-cobbles in the Tour).
Man people already calling him done. (not in this analysis ) If not for him it would have been boring tour of France last two years. It entertainment and he gives us some of the best moments!
True that. It was a magical TdF. And to be clear I have never said he’s done (maybe you mean others have). I said something always goes wrong during a GT that we don’t see happen the rest of the season with Pog. So I agree with you. 👊🦋🤔💥🔥🪄
Jonas was the most powerfull rider in the tdf, its just that he had made some crazy watts the day before for a 40km solo ride in the end for taking 1:04 on pogacar with company, Jonas had to pull the group he cought up to all the way on the flat section after a monstrous watts/kg actually the best climb by far in terms of watts per kg if you dont count the short climb in the TT. In conclusion the day after was the day pogacar could take 20 seconds on him. He was visible more tired this day(Jonas) Next day mountain stage he took a few seconds and then a few seconds again. But now Vingegaard had recovered next one pogacar couldnt outsprint Jonas for the finish. And then we had the TT where Jonas destroyed it. The unusual thing was that Vingegaard actually could beat tadej so much already in stage 5. But as Pogi said in an interview after stage 6 if Jonas had done the same pull as the day before he(pogacar) could have just packed his bag and go home cause it was an insane ride on stage 5.
Spot on. Jonas’ dominance was overwhelming this time. But I’m glad that it took some time to break him down. Good for the race. Already the stage before the ITT he, Pogi, was tired and didn’t have the punch. And Jonas had long recovered the risky and strenuous stage 6 where he used too much energy
Correct, except Pogacar said that" if the same had happened on stage 6 as the day before, he could have packed his bags". Not if Jonas did the same pull. Jonas did do a similar pull as the day before, Pogacar that stage could just resist it that time while he couldn't the day before.
@@MDP1702 Hmm that is not how I understand it, He talked about Jonas at that point I'm pretty sure. He said the climb Jonas did the day before was insane/incredible interview from stage 5. Later he refered to it in interview after the TT, referencing that he hoped it was like stage 5 and stage 6 where Jonas was worse after doing a big perfomance on the day before - and he then was subsequently better. Referencing the next days hardest climbs. Pogacars english is not on top so his way of formulating it can be understood several ways, but Im pretty sure this is what he ment.
@@TellusJD well, Jonas' performance on tourmalet was similar or even better to what he did the day before on Marie Blanque. The difference thus wasn't with Jonas, but with Pog that could follow that time. Now, Jonas might have payed for his effort on Tourmalet and the day before on that last climb where Pog dropped him, but if Pog had the legs from stage 5, he'd have been dropped on Tourmalet.
@@MDP1702 Okay, but it wasnt though, how did you come to that conclusion? His stage 5 was the best 20 minute effort seen since 1994 pantani Flumsenberg climb there might be other better climbs in the 90s but didnt find any in that time frame. There hasnt been since 23 years at least been that good a climb on that category of climb in tdf. calculated to watts /kg it was 6,92 for 21 minutes. Better than contador on veribier 2009. Just calculate the VAM get the times and the meter of altitude climbed it isnt hard. It was an insane climb on stage 5. No climb came close in this tdf, nor in earlier for that matter (excluding 1990's). He did the climb 2 seconds slower than Contador on verbier, but the climb had 30-40 more altitude meters which means he would have been 3-400 meters ahead of contador on a 10% gradient and that climb on Verbier is considered the best. Check out lantern rouges analysis of stage 5 not video but the article. You will see. Pogacar would have had to find better legs than he ever have shown to follow Jonas wheel. He has never in his career done similar watts, and Jonas hasnt either it was his careers best climb in numbers. But then came the TT and set the bar even higher. - shorter climb but insane perfomance.
This is what I have been saying for the past two weeks. Pog has only dropped Jonas in the last K or two on a steep uphill finish, whereas Jonas has dropped Pog 4 times for minutes. Jonas has also beat him twice in time trials by a pretty good margin. I hadn't watched 2020/2021 Tours, so didn't know the pattern seemed evident there as well. Pog is certainly an amazingly talented rider, but clearly needs work on long climbs and Grand Tours.
As I have said somewhere else, Jonas is tactical and built for these 3 week races. Tadej is constantly chomping at the bit to race. He wants to win everything, and that can lead to wasting energy. His team was much better this year, with his #1 lieutenant finishing on the podium. I think Tadej's mentality, much like Neilsson Powless(who i am not saying is on the same level of talent), is better suited to the classics and 1 week races. If his tactical IQ improves, which it very well could, he could be back on top again, though we got new guys coming up and Jonas is still there. Oh and Evenepol and Roglic will be there too most likely. Also, the Yates twins may push as well. Still, he is 25. Before the last few years guys didn't really start to challenge until they were 25 to 27. He has a lot of years to win a lot of races. And the record for the TdF is 7. I know, EPO and all that, but everyone he raced against was also. The fact he managed to never need to abandon for 7 straight years is still miraculous, along with being that dominant for 7 straight years against all comers.
Pogi is only missing the calm savvy voice of Allan Peiper to manage his bad days, tricky tactical situations and accelerated rehab protocols.... You get the impression that he is making his own decisions out there and while he is a genius, he is also just 24. He will continue to dominate until the next Pogi shows up or we understand how Vingegaard was able to do 7.0- 7.5w/kg **uphill** on his TT bike... I'm sure that Jonas delivered Numbers not seen since Jan Ulrich on Arcalis in 1997 or Indurain in Luxembourg in 1993 Also, super high altitudes in hot Temps is Pogi's Achilles heel. He needs his performance coaches and nutritionists to find a way to protect him under those conditions. Kid is still a genius...
Jonas Was on dansish tv, he told the 7.0 -7.5 watts on tt is wrong and that hes tt, w/kg wasnt even his best w/kg in the tour so those stats are deffinintly wrong
Alan peiper was available for the 2022 as a guide I do believe but not 100 percent sure. That might be one reason they cut him loose as consultant after the 2022 season
@markussaaby1265 I don't believe him. If his numbers were not extra terrestrial then why does he not upload that ride to Strava?? The back of the envelope calculations based on weight and speed of ascent are still crazy, even if not 100% accurate That TT was giving Riis 1996 Hautacam or Pantani's record climb up Alpe D'Huez vibes. It was insane...
@@doctornrsfnly Absolutely correct. There is something wrong with Jonas's time trial. He can climb like Pantani (that might be true) but he should not be able to time trial like Cancellara at 130lbs.
That could be true. Maybe Pog is only missing one important person that can see what has been going wrong and adjust it a little so that it won’t happen again. But maybe he gets the wrong person and he makes it worse. 😂🤔🦋👊
Very true so it’s easy to say he could win for 15 plus more years. But like I said which rider ever did dominate for more then ten. The last dominant riders have only gone ten years of domination or less really. Something to thing about though. 🤔👊🦋
@@ChrisHornerCycling An argument can be made that the present era is perhaps the most competitive since very long time if not ever. It is very hard to dominate, whatever meaning we put into this, when you are up against guys like Vingegaard, Remco, Wout, Mathieu, Roglic etc. Pog was pretty dominant in the spring when Jonas was not good, then the tables turned, now comes the Vuelta and it is someone else’s turn etc. We’ll see how it goes but Pog will be kicking ass for many years to come.
it is pretty obvious the only reason Tadej Gap Vingegard was on one stage in TDF is that Vingegard was actually tired from the last stage. This is when he put a minute on Tadej. He was pulling the other three to the finish line by himself. Even those three were complaining about how hard Vingegard was pulling.
Thanks for your great analysis Chris. Tadej is perhaps the most complete all round road rider we have seen in years in terms of his ability in all forms of the sport from one day classics to Grand Tours (but perhaps Evenepoel will prove to be such a rider too in the next couple of years). Don't you think his underlying problem during the TdF itself is that his desire to race causes him to expend too much energy chasing too few seconds of advantage rather than racing conservatively upto the point where he can make a hammer blow to opponents. I think his future success in the Tour may depend on prioritising it completely over other races in a season, ditching the classics and just racing one or two 1 week tours as a preparation. That would be a personal choice and he may prefer to carry on doing everything. We will know for sure if we see him lining up on the start line of Paris Roubaix 2024!!
He was beaten , accept that , they have been neck to neck in 3 years , until now vinge has been strongest in week 3 , thaths poggis problem can he change that ,he Will win ,until then , vinge Will win
I know the purpose of a channel like this is to provide insight into cycling tactics, but I think we sometimes get so caught up in our analysis that we forget the obvious. In cycling in general and in tdf in particular it is 9 out of 10 times the strongest rider that wins. Being dropped on the last mountain on a mountain stage is not a tactical mistake. It is a sign that the other rider is stronger. To quote Lance Armstrong. The only problem with Pogacar’s recent tdf performances is Vingegaard. Pogo in isolation is a lot stronger in 2022 and 2023 than he was in 2020 and 2021. There was just one guy who was even stronger. And when you analyze 2021, you need to mention ion that Jonas entered the 2021 tdf as domestique for Roglic. From the point in time where he became team captain mid race we saw the same picture as 2022 and 2023.
Chris is so pogacar biased "jonas on the same level physically" jonas destroyed the tt ,inhuman all time performace, and completely killed on col de la loz. Pogacar is still maybe the best all round rider in the world, but jonas is now clearly the strongest 3 week gt rider and chris is inhaling some wild pogacar fumes if he comes out of this tdf calling them the same level physically haha. love the show
Tadej is just starting to dominate it’s not ending at all. The guy came second this tour after a bad crash a couple of months before. He lost time on a mountain descent due to that injury. Seriously! Then on another stage as Chris pointed out he lost more time because of lack of calories. Just think what of the butterfly effect if Pog was introduced to our Mr Horner as a tactical mentor. What should be discussed is what would bring another team up to the levels of Jumbo or UAE? When Pog isn’t in the race it’s totally dominated by Jumbo and it could be a clean sweep of the big 3 this season.
I just think Jonas has shown more consistency and limited his losses better. He hasn't had the big blow up days. But I don't care who you are, there will always be a better, younger, faster rider to come up and knock you off the top. It's just the circle of life.
I mean.. Remco is the obvious choice for the near future.. Ayuso and Rodrigues may need a little more time. But I don’t see anyone of them beating Jonas in the tour in the next couple of years. I don’t see them beating Pogi either but if he has a bad day or 2 who knows. I don’t see anyone else in the pipeline other than them but then again, Jonas was quite the revelation himself in 2021, same with Froome in 2011 and 12 so we’ll see if someone pops through 😊
@@suisinghoraceho2403 What issues? Only 23, already won a GT, exceptional at TTs, Can ride in all type of terrain. I dont see another bigger talent more on the rise than him right now.. especially in terms of GTs.
@@telmolicious He’s terrible on rough surfaces. To his credit, he has already addressed downhill. He also doesn’t have a very good record on finishing GTs (looking at his finishing rate on Giros he did start).
@@suisinghoraceho2403 How many rough surfaces are there in the tour? An Odd cobblestone stage… maybe.. dirt Roads? Rarely.. Poor record of finishing GTs? Won 1, crashed out of one and left one with COVID-19. If u wanna Blame him for pool descending skills leading to the crash ok.. but getting COVID-19? Hows that got anything to do with Cycling skills?
I think that this year's Tour is the solidification of the Vingegaard-Pogacar era for the next 5 or 6 years. Hopefully without any world wars to interrupt their careers.
Pogacar weak spot is his stamina. TJV knows that. They know what power he can generate and let him ride in the"red" as much as possible. They gamble that he will pay in the third week of the tour. If Vingo cracks he looses seconds when Pogi cracks he looses minutes. We can talk about calories, heat, injuries, altitude, sickness lack of preperation but in the end a grand tour is about energy management. When a rider goes into the red to many times he gets injuries he becomes sick he will crack. We have seen it with Dumoulin in the Vuelta, Yates in the Giro, Pinot in the tour.
Interesting analysis Chris. As always. Let's not forget that Tadej smoked everyone in the time trial except for JV. If it's not for one bad day (perhaps an illness), we might be talking about a trip into Paris where JV and Tadej were sprinting for bonus seconds to decide it. I wonder your opinion about a question someone asked me the other day. Several years ago, the tour teams used to be 9 riders instead of 8. If there were 9 riders per team this year, who do you think it would have benefited the most, Tadej? JV? Maybe Ineos? Which team has the best depth to pick a 9th rider from?
I don't think this has anything to do with Pogacar prep like everyone else is saying or any of that.... Its Jumbo Visma vs 1 guy.... You stick on Pogacars wheel in the beginning and then towards the end of the tour wear him out. Until he either gets a team of the same power as Jumbo it will be the same story every year from here on out until there is a 3rd team fighting for GC as far as I'm concerned. Yea Jonas is pretty amazing as it is but his team is what gives him the edge to pull him to the end of the tours and make sure he still has legs at the end.
Well, it’s actually Pogi who is sucking the wheel of Jonas for most of the TDF. All the time… He just punches the last km for marginal wins and bonus seconds. He gained at least 30 s more than Jonas on that. I know it looks great, but also a bit pathetic, cos again this year he wore himself out slowly.
This take is simply stupid Yes u need a great team, and pogacar has that? hes domestique yates is litterly 3rd in this tour? Jonas vingegaard dosnt win the tour casue he has a better team? he wins becasue hes tt was better and better at high altitude
UAE's climbing sqaud was +- equal to that of J-V. While they lack the rouleurs of J-V, that didn't make the difference. Even with a strong team J-V can still do exactly the same. Pogacar losing here wasn't the fault of his team, but just he himself not being strong enough.
I think Pog has more grand tour wins in him, but we may also be entering a golden age of GC competition with Jonas Vingegaard now having won 2 TDFs, and on the horizon some other potentially great riders who are very young: Remco (I expect him to continue to improve in 3-week races), Ayuso from UAE (still very young), Rodriguez from Ineos, ... even others. And if Primoz Roglic can have a great training stretch without injuries and suffer no crashes during a grand tour, he may still be a real threat for another year or so. ... It's a great time to be a cycling fan.
Brilliant insights. What about the influence of former DS Allan Peiper? A Grand Tour is like a chess match. Talent can take you a long way, but everything in a GT must work almost perfectly. I sometimes feel that Pogi goes 'off-book and does his own thing, not following the plan. This strategy may work on one-day races, but it is difficult to do on a 3-week stage race. I suspect Pogi will race less next season if the goal is to win TdF.
Chris thanks for your great coverage of TDF. I have a suggestion: we all smile when you mention "your man" Victor Campenaerts. Why dont you do a special video on him so we get to know him better? Keep up the good work!
On the contrary, i feel, it is just the beginning. If he is able to find a good mentor and keeps his racing spirit regardless of his recent loss, nothing can stop him in the future. He is still maturing and will play smart vs all force/emotion.
nah, you're overreacting. Pogacar showed us amazing performance with as top Tour of Flanders 2 months ago. But also Paris-Nice which he defeats Vingegaard with ease. However his crash in Liege can be crucial, he got a surgery which prevents him to train for the Tour exception of last 2 weeks. Pogacar will most likely target Giro next so he might worn out for next year as well. If Evenepoel participates, we can also see a battle between him, Pogacar and Vingegaard, if Pogacar decided to participate the Tour too.
There are always riders coming up. Remco and Juan Ayuso will give Tadej and Jonas good competition in the next 2-3 years. Tadej's lack of 3 week stage success is alarming (for him) in that sense
With the caliber of riders in the peloton, I wouldn't be surprised if he never wins another tour. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he wins 3, 4, 5 more. Fingers crossed he decides to race the Vuelta this year.
I believe that Jonas time trial performance shows that he is definitely the most fit rider in the world. He I believe that he could gap him by 5 minutes on many of the mountain stages if he really wanted to. I feel Jonas could do a series of short "bluff" attacks up an early long climb...repete this on the next long climb...and then do the "real" attack up the last long (10k) climb. The key is to do a lot of earlier sttacks, that are 80-90% efforts. Jonas is fitter and can wear Tadej out EVERY mountain stage with this tactic. 5k and 20k track runners have been doing this since the 1950's...
Chris I had to comment here. My buddy just text me "I've been riding like a knucklehead, back to structure." I introduced him to your videos during TdF and he's already acclimated 😂 Ride on!
For some reason Chris didn't see the incredible strength of Jonas for so many years, always praised Tadej. Now kind of rewriting the last few years is not very convincing.
No. People have him retiring already. Next season will be his first year not eligible for a young rider jersey! Not sure if he will have 8 grand tour wins, but he likes to compete in the 1 day monuments. He could have a great career if he can win multiple, multiple monuments! BTW: if I was a sports director for UAE, I would have Tadej focus on the early season monuments like Paris-Robaix and 1 week races, then focus on the La Vuelta. Give Ayuso a chance to compete in TDF, and Tadej can try to win these big 1 day races!
Only reason I'd disagree about the Vuelta is Tadej supposedly is not good in a lot of heat, better in cold... therefore better in the classics and maybe Giro would be good.
I actually think Pogacar is just having fun. He is still a young rider and wanted to ride early season races too. Was obviously run down, cold sore and looked exhaused
You are wrong Chris. Riding slower to let domestiques come back will just allow Pogocar to recuperate and destroy everyone. The main reason why pogacar lost 2023 tour is the tactics of Jumbo and lighter pure climber weight of Vingegaard. On every stage with hills and / or mountains jumbo kept the pace very high. Little by little the extra kilos sloped Pogacar. In the third week Vingegaard takes the upperhand. If Pogacar is allowed to set the tempo, he will destroy them all. It has more to do with this, than any of the other mentioned causes. Inspite of all the criticism, Jumbo knew very well what they are doing,. Results don't lie.
Great insights Chris. I think Adam Yates is the wrong combination with TP. He needs Sepp Kuss and WVA type domestiques who will always be his lead out. UAE by having two GC options are diluting the fire power vs Jumbo.
It's clear that as he ages he'll need to change up his racing style and tactics but it's a work in progress because he's so good. Beating everyone his way really is something different and if he says in the bus I'm on, not sure the director has a choice. Restraining and restricting his output and efforts, as well as having a better team is imperative to him in grand tours of the future. Strong director is key!!!!. Man I'm so happy we get the privilege of watching this young guy smash em up whilst also get out teamed by a stronger jumbo visma. Be boring otherwise 🤔😉. Great conversation Chris 👍. Rest up Tadej. Spectacular effort off a short prep after an amazing start to the year. No apologies necessary 👍
17:12 - actually he has 'only' 3 of the 5 monuments - Milan San Remo isn't on his list yet, although sometimes it is easy to think that he won that one too.
I still think he's #1: 4 classics including a Monument, close at MSR, Paris Nice, Andalusia, 3rd at Worlds, 2nd at the Tour and the year's not over yet.
Pogacar has said it himself. When asked if he didn't have any weaknesses his answer was: it is easy to see. Long and steep mountain stages at high altitude with high temperatures. Examples: Col de Loze in 2020 when he lost some seconds to Roglic, Mont Ventoux in 2021, Granon last year and now Loze again after what he thought was a tour winning time trial. He also said that JV was the best climber in the world. Who knows what magical gains Jumbo have made him a top ITT rider also. This has, as far as I know, NEVER happedned before in grand tours. Best climbers, the small guys, have historically always lost minutes, not seconds, in time trials although they were longer and there were more of them previously
Bottom line is they could have done two grand tours for each year. They missed out. Vingo just figured this out and Roglic did last year. Giro-Vuelta or Giro-Tour or Tour Vuelta. Skip the spring classics and prepare for 2 grand tours bringing the show to Italia and Espana
You also have to remember that Pog has not had the team support that Jumbo Visma has given their GC riders. The first TDF win for Pog he literally rode the wheels of other teams and had virtually no help at crunch time. with his second win he was constantly left to fight off two or three other riders at the end (Jonas and Richard Carapaz as i recall in a later stage). Last year i think Pog pressed and took a lot of "knucklehead " chances and it cost him. this year he was tearing the circuit up until his broken wrist in May literally 2 months before the Tour. I think that had to affect his preparation because he could not ride for ? how many weeks. I work out in the gym lifting and if i dont lift for 2 weeks i am not the same when i get back and it takes me several weeks to get back to where i was. Is he done?? Hell no. He had one heck of a spring as fine as any rider has had. If he has a better team around him he could win again as the talent is there and he is young. And i have to believe he is competitive as hell almost to a detriment where his fire to win sometimes outweighs the smarter tactical way to win.
Superb video as always Chris. Now that the stage by stage is over I notice a slower pace to your vocalizing and that means I can follow you easier 😅. Great analysis and evaluation and I for one would appreciate you doing more of these types of videos as digging deep into why things turned as they did is fascinating given your deep knowledge and experience. I love Pogacar as a rider and he is an out and out bike racer but you’re right to highlight his inability to keep it too drawer over 21 consecutive stages even in the tours he won. Team UAE really need to get to the bottom of this with him so that we can see him lighting up our cycling viewing for the next 5 to 10 years hopefully !!
Not the modern era, but Gino Bartali won the tour 10 years apart, and probably would have been dominant during the period in between if not for WWII. I think it was Greg Lemond that said special riders start showing up early 20's, like Tadej. I think you make some good points, Chris... and I think him and his team need to really sit down and look in the mirror. Figure out if the training needs to be adjusted, or if it is solved with more nutrition and better tactics. He seems to love riding his bike, and I think he has the legs to win many more grand tours. If it is just bad luck (like crashing at the foot of a climb), there is not much you can do. That was one thing I always felt was under appreciated with Lance. Whatever your feelings about him, he was beyond lucky just to make it through 7 consecutive tours without major injury or having to withdraw.
On stage 17 going up to Col de la Loze that Pogi crashed in the early stage that's why he dropped and lost amount of minutes. That crash and ITT cause his Tour.
Tadej's versatility is his curse. He can win grand tours and dominate 1 week races but he can also win in the Ardennes, on the cobbles, at Strade Bianche. Its hard in that situation to give up on races like Flanders, Liege or MSR, where youve won or are a top favorite. For one trick ponies like Jonas, Froome, Indurain etc, it was easier to simply focus on the Grand Tours. What is Jonas realistically going to win besides a GT? Not in cobbles, he showed last year his bike handling is garbage and he needs Wout to babysit him. not at Lombardia or LBL, nowhere where a sprint is needed. He can therefore do 3 altitude camps and sacrifice everything for one race. I like Tadej how he is. Pile up the victories, get those monuments. So what if he doesnt win 5 Tours? Who cares? Here is the other thing, Tadej's main weapon right now is his explosiveness and sprint. With it he can win LBL, MSR, RvV and Lombardia. But it'd also the attribute that goes away faster. Look at Kwiatkowski who lost it in his 20s. If early on is Tadej's window to pile up monuments he should do it. He can focus on becoming a diesel later on. No offense but youre trying to pigeonhole a great all rounder into something smaller. You were a stage racer so for you its about GTs. But Tadej already said earlier on that his main goal was Flanders, not the Tour. He said it. He can set his own priorities In the end lets just chill. He broke his wrist, he lost 5 weeks off the bike. When Jonas was doing his third altitude camp this year Tadej was jogging in Monaco and riding his trainer. He didntbeveb have the chance to complete one altitude camp and had to completely scrap wind tunnel sessions, which no doubt had an effect on his ITT. Why are you completely omitting this now from your videos? To justify your decision to rank Jonas number 1, when you said you wouldnt even if he beat Tadej? What made you change your mind? If Jonas lost so much prep time, would he win? I bet he wouldn't even show up. Maybe Tadej should have skipped the Tour and set focus on the Vuelta, but unlike Jonas he isnt afraid to lose. When I see Tadej attack at RvV or sprint it out at LBL, or even lose badly on a Tour stage, I see a happy kid doing what he likes. Like when he attacked on stage 21. It was crazy, maybe stupid, but fun. When I see Jonas I see a robot pushing watts according to how Plugge programs his little computer. He doesnt seem to be having fun, its a job for him. Hes a little cog in a big machine, saved from complete obscurity. Just see his results before 2020, complete garbage. Pogacar already tasted defeat and it didn't break him. Lets see what happens when Jonas loses his perch
@rafalpruszynski1707 I just love your comment/analysis. (I also remember CH stating JV would remain 4th in his ranking even if he would win the TdF 2023.)
Tadej Pogačar' and jonas vingegaard is on other level is like see messi and Ronaldo in there prime as a dane i hope jonas vingegaard win ever time hehe :D
Now in high mountains during tour vingegaard has dropped pogacar 4 times. Every gt will have at least one stage and maybe two w approx 5 climbs w summit finish and w last climb hc. Vingegaard outdistances everyone on such a stage. And showed inn2023 can do so when last climb is lower cat 1 P can change his training-bit slower bit longer, train for more endurance. He does that he can get closer to V on such stages, but likely will still be somewhat weaker. And will lose some of his explosiveness and thus get less in time bonuses. So in mtns he loses time, it seems, regardless of what he does in training next 11 months. V goes to more altitude camps. P can add more of those in. I read P gets all the altitude he needs tho-that he has at his place in monoco high altitude room. Tho I am not certain of this. Uae bikes and wheels maybe not as fast as jumbo equipment. V descends better than p. Weird to me. But V killed P on tour tt on turns, on his line, on his speed thro turns. In a pinch 2024 tour V can attack P on a descent that ends at finish line. Given all these factors, hard to see p beating v in tour 2024. Or 2025 But I was completely wrong re 2023. No way did I imagine p losing such time on tt nor on stage 17 hc climb, lose climb. You never know in cycling. And I was so confident that p wd not lose such big time.
Were any of the example riders you used to set your 1 decade time limit dominating when they were still eligible for the white jersey? If not, it may be worth a time extension. Not sure if the time limit is due to wear and tear (mental and physical) on the rider as they are crushing the competition, or is an overall age clock ticking away. Similar discussion to when Lebron James entered the NBA at a young age. Would he have longer to dominate, or is that clock limited just by the grind of competing year after year.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the next decade shakes out that Pogacar is the best overall rider but Vingegaard is the best grand tour rider. There are so many things that can happen though that even if Vingegaard can consistently beat Pog, shit could happen where Pog still picks up more TdF victories.
I agree with the analysis of TJVs tactics on Stage 6 of this years TdF. They wanted to emulate the Granon stage of last year onto this years Tourmalet/Cauterets stage, but it was not as hard as the Granon stage. Plus this was stage 6, not the second weekend. They were right to try given Marie Blanque the day before, but seeing Jonas drag Pogi over the Tourmalet, like Pogi dragged Jonas over last years Galibier was an indication that this would not work out. They should've backed off and Sky-trained the valley and the last climb. No one is attacking a of 3/4 riders. Also, Cauterets was not that hard a climb as compared to Granon. There were stretches of lower gradients and it didn't go to altitude. Plus Vingegaard was just not very aware on that final climb, allowing Pogacar to use his superior acceleration and get sucked into the draft of the motorbikes, creating an 8 second gap within no-time he then extended over the flatter sections.
The video title isn't justified. First, Tadej is still young, and I feel the broken wrist kept him from being 100% for this tour. He will wear yellow again, some time in the future.
If he’s going to be a tour rider, maturity will ask him to race more conservatively & more tactically. He’ll also have to take TT’s more seriously. The competition has proven they are there to beat him.
I think Tadej will do better now that he doesn't have the weight of the young rider's jersey. And thanks, Chris, for your breakdown of this and yes, it is nice to see Tadej smile and enjoy the experience, the highs and lows and he is like Primoz in that respect, no? And I have no idea about the what's what with these superstar riders but in the Tour, it does seem to be Tadej v. All the Crazies on JV, with Wout messing up the minds of everyone, pros and pundits and fans alike. And I was all for that last year, the JV payback to young Tadej for his humiliating Primoz two years earlier and it always hurts when all of a sudden your promotion gets snatched by a younger person at work. And tho' it doesn't look like Primoz will ever get that Tour victory, he has learned he has friends who have his back and he has rebounded mightily by winning stage races since 2020 and that's a beautiful thing, everyone needs a Wout to sort things out. 😀
Jonas is 2 years older and did nothing much besides the TDF. When he was 24 he won nothing. Pog has already proved himself and still has time to develop more
@@tonyg3091 Hey at least Jonas said he is no longer improving 20% every year, but only a couple of percent. Otherwise we could expect 9 watts/kg next year radioactive TTs
VERY IMPORTANT, CRITICAL!!! They said Pogi was doped because his out of this world time trial on Tour 2020. Let's have a look what was his and Jonas (time trial Tour 2023) advantage to followers per every kilometer: POGI gained 2seconds per 1 km to second Dumoulain- VINGO gained 4,5 s per kilometer to second Pogi POGI gained 2s/km to 3. Porte- VINGO gained 8 s/km to 3. Van Aert POGI gained 2,5s/km to 4. Van Aert- VINGO gained 8s/km to 4. Bilbao Let's look the difference between first and 3rd place. Pogi 2020: 2s/km Indurain's 1992 best time trial in history of Tour de France: 3,5s/km Vingegaard 2023: 8s/ km How many times 2 is 8? IT'S 4 TIMES BIGGER ADVANTAGE THAN POGI!!! THAT MUST BE THE BEST PERFORMANCE OF 300 000 YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY CONCIDERING ANY SINGLE ACTIVITY OF HUMAN KIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that is certainly not doping, it's something way better! Most probably it is: best biological doping in history + best tech doping + Vingo is biggest talent in history + VINGO most studied and skilled time trial performance. No matter what you recomment, only all factors combined explain so cosmic performance!!!
Nothing magical here; 30 sec (much) better technical riding in corners; 30 sec for the bike change; 30 sec more power. Do the math. Especially the bike change was a huge mistake by Pogi and his team.
@@tonyg3091 did not see any side-by-side footage of Jonas vs WVA but I saw how Jonas was faster than WVA going downhill during TdF so probably not very different except for WVA not changing bike but on the other hand being heavier than Vingegaard and thus less ideal a TT course for him.
If he gets beaten in the 2024 TdF I see him giving up trying to win the TdF and concentrate on the classics + maybe the Vuelta, or Giro, or just go for stages in the grand tours. Either that, or the opposite: less racing in the spring, more focus on the TdF. But I think he does not have the mentality for that, he wants to race!
Great analysis! Question? What team will Wout be on next year? Will he break his contract as he is noted to do? Second, where do you see Pre. Ro ( spelling ) going after he wins the Vuelta? Thanks, Al
No. If it was. It was insanely short. He had couple bad days TT and Stage thereafter. Then he kicked won penultimate. He had bad days. As sad as it is … the TDF 23 was still ace.
Come on now, he is 24!!! He won almost every race he was in this year. Give him a break, he broke his wrist and still made it to the TDF and made the race exciting.
well said 👍👍
Absolutely! This is what Pogacar can do with hardly any proper race preparation due to his injury then Jumbo and Vingegaard should be worried for TDF 2024. I’ve been watching buke races for 30 years or so and Tadej Pogacar is the best rider I’ve ever seen. Your analysis is correct for he made the race super entertaining with his will to win and attacks. He’s not only strong physically but mentally too. I have no doubt if he hadn’t been injured and rode either Criterium De Dauphine or Tour de Suisse he would have won this years TDF
@@silverarrowslk think of that! The guy does no racing basically before the Tour after breaking his wrist?? Which is one of the biggest components of the body riding the bike!! Then he goes on to win multiple stages, including the last Mountain stage after bonking so hard a few days earlier. And we even question if his dominance is over? If anything we all should be praising his fight, determination, and heart. I will say that Jones was the better rider for sure this one. He descended better the Pogacar, and this was due to the wrist issues I am sure, and fear of crashing again and just being safe. But Jonas was 100% badass out there, climbing better, time trial better, and downhill better. But certainly, if the roles were reversed I think Jonas would have faced the same issues Pogacar was dealing with. Both will win many races and for their ages, each will be a dominator in their own way in the near future many times.
I could not agree more🥰
@@silverarrowslkI have no doubt he woukdA won? No doubt? Cmon.. that sounds a little fanboyish, buddy 😅
I still think he dominated this year, tbh. He was in the discussion of the milan san remo, won tour of flandres and he would have won the tripple in the ardennes if not for a fall on lbl. Only 2 people ever made the ardennes triple, and he would have done it in the same year he also won the tour of flandres... He also won the paris nice, finished 2 at the Tour, and lets see what more he races till the end of the season... He can still also win his second monument of the season and put on a show in several other classics
Agreed. Which is why, for mine, he is still the No. 1 ranked rider. The analysis of his GT record is interesting, but you could equally say the 2019 Vuelta was a learning experience, and had that race gone a few more days, or TP had found form a little earlier in his first 3 week race, Roglic would have been in trouble. 2020 and his taking back time was done such that even with Bernal there none of the others could've followed, whilst 2021 he was head and shoulders above the rest (why be putting the hammer down in the 3rd week when you have a 5 minute lead?). The last 2 years though it stacks up, something (multiple things really) has gone wrong each year so as Chris says he and his team have their work cut out now.
The Fisherman JV is almost invisible outside the tour. So far.
Not only that, he also wins quite series champion ship.
But his crash Liege-Baskenaken-Liege is likely crucial and got surgery of his hand which prevents him to train for the Tour.
idk about you but I have enjoyed a lot from Pogacar.
I for one would love to see Vingo rock up at LBL Fleche and Lombardy and try to beat Tadej, Vingo is a Indrian & Froome, although Chris tried to win the worlds TT after the tour will vingo doubt it
@@tvsmedNo he is not. He has won Gran Camino, Tour of the Basque country and Criterium du Dauphiné. +3rd in Paris-Nice. That's being very visible.
He is not well suited for one day races, because he needs several days to wear his competitors down.
I like how Tadej basically said “No mas” after being dropped in the Tour, but then roared back to win a stage and animate the final day. He’s a beast, basically. Has the big win mentality, the go hard or go home mindset. Love the guy!
Congratulations, Tadej, on your MSR victory. Whatever year that was. 🛋️🦋
One rider who didn't have any bad days and was always in top form and free of knuckleheadism was Chris Horner in this year's TDF coverage and analysis. Thanks for all your, and Garrett's, work.
My personal observations. Tadej Pogacar is a rider who rides less strategically and more on instinct. That sometimes means that he is wasting energy when he does not necessarily need to. Tadej does not always show patience or stick to a strategy although I think he has done so more recently. Tadej is more of a punchy type of climber, just as is Roglic. In other words, he hopes to stay on until the end when he can use his kick to win. And that has been very effective.
Vingegaard is a classic pure climber who lacks the punch at the end. But on the long climbs, he can go and go well beyond nearly any other rider. I believe that is why Jumbo Visma used a team that was characterized as a classics team to back up Vingegaard. Jumbo Visma had a team of super rolleurs who were used to break down Pogacar and his team. In this TdF, it worked.
There is the other thing of rider personalities. Pogacar is one of the most outgoing and charismatic riders ever to dominate in the peloton. He is also a rider who rides so much on instinct which is great when the rider is young, but less effective as he gets older (not that Pogacar is older). But sometimes instinct ends up in the waste of energy.
Vingegaard is far more introverted and introspective. Vingegaard spent a lot of time with his team working on the ITT course, dissecting it and learning all the curves. I also think Vingegaard is, in terms of his personality, far more patient.
And team JV nw knows Pogacars weakness and capitalize on that
great observations... yet Jonas form peaks are something hard to explain.
patience is the word well said
Maybe it's just me...but....Tadej being called the new Cannibal has a reason....this youngster is not even 25 and already won more than anyone his age in history except Eddy himself at that age!!!!
My rider of the season, so far.
Every one of his wins have been spectacular, burning off the competition, Tour of Flander, Amstel Gold and Fleche wallone. If he wins Lombardy, he seals the deal. World championship? At that moment the cannibal comparisons are real.
I think the fact that he hung so long to Jonas was in itself exceptional. Jonas is without doubt the top Grand Tour dog, so that was no mean feat by Pogacar. I wonder if Pogacar doesn't the on the Giro and Vuelta next year and leave the Tour to Jonas and Remco (it won't be in Paris because of the Olympics, so maybe it isn't a big loss). Then launch into the Tour in 2025 renewed?
Si pero a los 30 ya va estar para jubilarse, la vida del deportista de alto rendimiento es corta....
@mercedesvlos you don't know that. He will likely lose a lot of his kick but there's a decent chance he'll have more endurance which typically happens in your early 30s.
Merckx was a doper.
@@cincydooley so is everyone in the grand tours1🤣
What's really interesting is that if Jonas wasn't competing and winning no one would be discussing or even considering this because Pogi would've just won his 4th straight TDF. A more likely question from Chris would've been, "when can we declare Tadej the GOAT?"
I'm a retired AT&T Communication analyst so I'm going to address this like I would have approached all of my previous assignments by just reviewing the data. The data (race results) over the past 3 TDFs show a remarkable correlation with results, TJV strategy, and rider physiology (the science).
The physiology: Pogi is a unique blend: an excellent endurance athlete (type I fibers) with remarkable explosiveness (type II fibers). Jonas is more type I with less type II compared to Pogi. The difference here is that while more explosive and sprint capable , the type II fibers are less fatigue resistant. You can only carry so much muscle fibers based on your optimal size and weight, so your overall distribution of fibers dictate how much fatigue resistant fibers you carry into an event. That being said, the more endurance trained you are and more type I fibers you have, the better recoverability you have as well.
The results: Other things being equal, you would expect Tadej to have the advantage on sprints and punchy climbs, whereas you would expect the lighter Jonas with higher distribution of Type I fibers to have the edge on very long, difficult stages and perhaps even recover a little easier between these very hard stages just based on physiology. This is exactly what we are seeing. Tadej is consistently stronger the first half of the TDF compared to Jonas but also starts to fade quicker than Jonas in the last week which is typically where the stages get harder as well. This is consistent even with the ITTs. Results show Tadej has a big edge on the ITT when they occur early in the tour and that flips towards Jonas late in the tour. This is also the case with the gaps Tadej can create when he accelerates. Late in the tour, Pogi's sprints are easier to match by Jonas. Call it fading, attrition, or fatigue but it is obvious and consistent across all of the tours they have competed together. So what's up with stage 5 in which Jonas attacked and took a minute? This stage is an anomaly due to the difficulty caused by Jai and the large group in the breakaway on UAE and Tadej. UAE tried their best to control it and were full gas the whole way unsuccessfully. This very high pace impacts Tadej more than it does Jonas.
TJV strategy: Their strategy is simple and lines up with the physiology and results. Make the stages as hard as possible on UAE and especially Tadej assuming that fatigue will impact him more than Jonas and set them up to take big time in the latter ITT and stage 17. Which is exactly what happened. Jai and the breakaway did this for Jumbo on stage 5. Jumbo miscalculated and thought the the stage 5 results were a sign of a hurt or out of form Tadej which wasn't the case with Jonas towing him along. UAE needs to find a way to make Tadej more durable and/or slow the general pace down.
I’d like to point out the heat this year and how genetics, physiology and preparation for the heat play a huge role. Some people are naturally able to withstand the heat and perform well in it where others fade more quickly. It could be that Jonas is much more heat acclimated than Pogi meaning that the conditions suited him better this year. That’s not at all to detract from Jonas’s impressive abilities on the bike just a factor that I have yet to hear mentioned from anyone.
Fair point. And perhaps relevant (I’ve not compared the actual recorded temps) that Pogi’s first TDF crown came during the Covid year when the Tour was held in September.
Tadej does not like the heat. He needs train for it.
which is odd because Denmark is not a hot country like south america or even italy or spain
@@TheWorldisaLIE2 You beat me to it , im danish my self and always wonder how jonas is so good in heat .. coz denmark aint really that hot hehe
it's not about your place of birth. It's physiology@@TheWorldisaLIE2
i still dont know why pogie had such huge struggles this tour (other than if he wasnt fully trained due to time off the bike, which seems likely). i dont think anyone knows, maybe he doesnt even know. but he is still the best rider in the world. the ability to win so many different types of races makes him #1 to me. and he is just cooler than anybody else!
He always has a Crack day when he is pushed several days in a row. One day monuments is where he shines
"... huge struggles..."? He was a solid number two, coming back from an injury. One or to mistakes/bad luck from Jonas, and Pog would have won
@@andershjen125He definitely had 1 huge struggle day on the Loz stage.
He participates many tours, world championships, european championships this year but his crash Liege could be crucial, which prevents him to train for the Tour exception of last 2 weeks.
It's a treat to watch a gt champion who can win everything and even better wants to and does. Just this year msr animated main marked man. Andelucia, Paris nice against Jonas, record fast Flanders against wout and vdp and best rouleur, Amstel and fleche against best puncheurs only crash prevented possible triple. Tadej has season every rouleur, puncheur, gc rider would all admire. Brakes wrist still rides tour and by far most entertaining rider with phillipsen. Won't win field sprint but reduced bunch he's fantastic just to stay in frame on e3 sprint finish with Mathieu and wout. He's best rider in world and it's not close. He's still qualifies for white. Talk about victim of your own success. He's better than us on the bike and in a lot of ways he's so mature and professional off it. In his 5 gt's he's won 14stages . Won the tour at 20 years old. Looks grim ? Didn't race for 6 weeks steps into tour and fades in 3rd week that's surprising
Pogacar had an inadequate prep for the Tour de France and still finished second, won two stages, the white jersey and was within ten seconds till the last week. Add to that the spring classic wins. Most riders would dream of his one year (bad according to the commentators) palmares for their whole career. Jonas focused on one target while Tadej had multiple targets and I think did pretty good. I love the Tour, but I am growing tired of this overblown notion that the Tour is the only race.
"Pogacar had an inadequate prep for the Tour de France" Who the hell cares. If you are NOT prepared the TDF is NOT for you. Poor subtle excuse. And It keeps popping up. Here's the thing. Had he won, it would've been: "Pogacar was not 100% fit yet he won"
Jonas has also been prepping for the Vuelta since November.
@@savagepro9060 why can’t the comment be that he arrived with an adequate prep AND came in second, two stage wins and put the overall winner to the test?
@@Soli11 I think that he has trained to peak for the Tour and then to come in at whatever percentage he needs to be to serve their purposes at the Vuelta. Clearly the field there will be vastly different than at the Tour (likely easier?)
@@savagepro9060 He had injury couple weeks before TdF. I would say that is a pretty good excuse to not be 100% and still be second in TdF and even have dominant moments.
Have we pigeon holes him with GC success being his lasting impact when maybe he was the best for those two years and is just such a powerful all round rider that he can challenge for GC in the TdF? Like he is winning classics & tours, and can sprint. He’s probably top 3 GC & classics riders & whilst winning the TdF is the pinnacle, should we start looking at his dominance over classics, week & GTs? Rather than solely on the TdF? I wouldn’t be surprised if he wins worlds too. JV won’t win worlds, or any classics, but could win 5 tours, but TP can win them all.
100%
I'd like to see in 2024, hoping he can be better on tactic from 4 years of TDF experience, and definitely healthier. And see if JV can repeat the victories
Pogacar is certainly a GC GT rider and one of the best of them but maybe as you said even a better classic rider and one week rider then the rest of the world. 🤔👊🦋🔥💥
There are definitely classics Jonas is capable of winning. Pogo is definitely better than him in one day races. But the best rider doesn't always win. You just have to be the best on that day.
@@veganpotterthevegan TP has a better chance at winning than JV, but it’s more about not viewing TP as a pure GC rider in terms of his accomplishments, instead of one of the best ever all rounders. JV on the other hand whilst capable, is less likely to win a one day race, but will go down as one of the best 3 week GC riders.
He only has 3 of the 5 monuments Chris. Your analysis of GC longevity and the causes of any 'jour sans' is however spot on. Matej Mohoric is the Slovenian with MSR on his palmares.
The history of bike racing is consistent with your assessment that it is hard to go more than approximately ten years at the highest level. The level of focused effort required, plus the odds of injury or illness, make it hard to go beyond that window. Of course, five more years of Tadaj versus Jonas is something to look forward to.
And will Remco, Ayuso and Rodrigues challenge in that time? 🤔
Pogacar: "Vinegar is not easy to swallow. I tried!"
Clever!!
😂😂😂
😂
I'll go out on a limb and say Pogacar is just too young yet! Despite his enormous talent, he still hasn't fully matured as far as endurance sports are concerned. If I'm right, tactics, teammates and DS aside, he will solve his Grand Tour consistency problems in future tours.
And it appears Pogacar wants to be known as an great all-around rider, not just Classics or Grand Tours.
Maybe he wants that same legendary status as Eddie Merckx by the time he's done racing?
Doubtful. He has too many off-days in a three week race to hold up. If he's up against Vingegaard, he will lose everytime bar accidents and injuries. He's a spectacular rider, but he loses out on five points: off-days (inconsistency), long mountain stages in high altitudes, time trial, heat and recuperation.
You might be on to something. It’s possible he wants to accomplish other things before solely focusing on the grand tours. He’s also having a lot of fun on his bike as well he should. It may be possible in a few years after he’s accomplished other goals and ages a bit (let’s face it the older you get the less you can do in a year) he solely focuses on the Tour de France, he could dominate and get his 3 wins. That would be incredible.
@@mikkelhagen9177I saw somewhere that UAE doctor said that actually his biggest strength is being able to recover so fast that he's never seen this before. I suppose this is right since he races the whole year, but exactly bc of that eventually tiredness builds up at the end of the Tour. I'm curious to see what would be the outcome of this year's Tour if he had focused only on that as Jonas did.
I think the same, he is so young. There is time to improve and solve any issues/ weakness. People are overreacting. Pog himself admitted that the injury prevented him to train and do all the things needed to win the tour.
I hope he'll stay an all-around rider. Many Danes are angry he doesn't even care to ride the Tour of Denmark. Pogi said it was more important for him to win Flanders than France this year!
My opinion, JV knew they had to make him race hard several days and he always will then have a bad day. JV did not make a mistake even when Pogi won the stage because they knew it would cause a Crack later
Well as far as the TdF is concerned despite popular and Chris’ belief it never really started. In 2020 he benefited massively from the fact that JV underestimated him completely, he was under their coattails for three weeks and they even let him get back some time that he had lost before because he was that nice young Slovenian countryman of Primoz. And in 2021 his only rival in Roglic crashed out, and he beat up a bunch of riders that he is still beating up today. Even then his second part of the Tour was less strong already, which kind of prompted JV to start thinking about the attrition approach.
Mind you, without the rise of Vingegard and the JV superteam and strategy he could easily already have four TdFs, he was still way better than anyone else on this Tour.
Yes, but let’s also be wary because with rise of JV we are teetering on the boring Sky train tactics of the past.
@@CFCMahomet Agreed, although as long as Pogacar is there it will never be as simple for JV as it was for Sky/ Ineos, and let’s hope that Remco, Ayuso etc will make it a lot more interesting as well!
The 2020 explanation is not a very good one. Roglic wasn't even the clear leader of Jumbo coming into the Tour and certainly not the favorite to win it. He may have emerged as such into the race was but it was very tight after two weeks with multiple riders within a minute or so. Pogi was one of many on the radar and and certainly familiar to Jumbo's after he podiumed behind Roglic in the Vuelta in the previous fall. 2021 he beat Jonas which you failed to mention. You could make similar statements about Jonas. The tour last year could have been over on the cobbles if it wasn't for Wout saving Jonas. Having the decoy of Primoz didn't hurt either. This year Pogi obviously had a terrible day and Jonas had a superhuman one but it was pretty damn close before that, especially considering the injury. How many more hits to his palmares is Wout willing to take for Jonas before he makes a move. He literally has the best domestique I've and ever seen and has some clear team advantages that Pogi does not. I don't thin this story is over.
@@rulifaller8474 I would love to see UAE add Auyuso and Vine to the Pogacar TDF team.
Not better then Jonas at this TdF. Flashier yes but better no way. 🤔🦋👊
It's funny how we are all of a sudden pointing out his weaknesses, while we were listening for more than a month how Jonas has little chance to win and how Pogačar lost last year because of his own mistakes and not because Jonas was simply the best.. How times change, huh?
Last year Tadej's mistakes cost him more. This year he was less fit and this cost him more...of course had he not sprinted like a mad man at the end of every stage maybe he would have more left in the 3rd week.
He’s also 24 & is 1/3 of the way to the 34 stage wins…..
Great episode !!
Before I watch- dude is 24! This is the beginning of an era of great GC racing! Can't wait for Remco to get in on it!
Me too 👊🦋🔥
Chris, I’ve been laid up all month after a 40mph crash. Just now on the mend. Your excellent TDF coverage helped keep me sane/give me something to look forward to. Really appreciate it!
When Chris pulls out that red jersey I always smile. I was glued to the set watching that Vuelta every day.
He has "only" won 3 different monuments: Flanders, Liege and Lombardia (Twice).
He hasn't won San-Remo or Roubaix. But he will definitely be up there fighting for the win in the coming years if he chooses to participate in San-Remo (for the 3rd time) and Roubaix (would be his debut, but he had a great race on the Roubaix-cobbles in the Tour).
Thanks for the deep bonus coverage!
The guy just won everything this year. This is his most dominant year so far. Look the whole picture, cycling is not just the tour.
sponsors want the tour
That’s a different topic. Not the end of an era though
Didn’t win the big one.
he won the big one flandern
@@jfreck sponsors wants exposure. If the UAE would want just tour, Pog's preparation would be completely different.
Man people already calling him done. (not in this analysis ) If not for him it would have been boring tour of France last two years. It entertainment and he gives us some of the best moments!
True that. It was a magical TdF. And to be clear I have never said he’s done (maybe you mean others have). I said something always goes wrong during a GT that we don’t see happen the rest of the season with Pog. So I agree with you. 👊🦋🤔💥🔥🪄
@@ChrisHornerCycling agreed not you! Also thank you for replying have been loving your insights!
Your best video yet, Chris. A more moderate discussion and exploration, plus that front-on seating position looks so much better!
Jonas was the most powerfull rider in the tdf, its just that he had made some crazy watts the day before for a 40km solo ride in the end for taking 1:04 on pogacar with company, Jonas had to pull the group he cought up to all the way on the flat section after a monstrous watts/kg actually the best climb by far in terms of watts per kg if you dont count the short climb in the TT.
In conclusion the day after was the day pogacar could take 20 seconds on him. He was visible more tired this day(Jonas) Next day mountain stage he took a few seconds and then a few seconds again. But now Vingegaard had recovered next one pogacar couldnt outsprint Jonas for the finish. And then we had the TT where Jonas destroyed it. The unusual thing was that Vingegaard actually could beat tadej so much already in stage 5. But as Pogi said in an interview after stage 6 if Jonas had done the same pull as the day before he(pogacar) could have just packed his bag and go home cause it was an insane ride on stage 5.
Spot on. Jonas’ dominance was overwhelming this time. But I’m glad that it took some time to break him down. Good for the race. Already the stage before the ITT he, Pogi, was tired and didn’t have the punch. And Jonas had long recovered the risky and strenuous stage 6 where he used too much energy
Correct, except Pogacar said that" if the same had happened on stage 6 as the day before, he could have packed his bags". Not if Jonas did the same pull. Jonas did do a similar pull as the day before, Pogacar that stage could just resist it that time while he couldn't the day before.
@@MDP1702 Hmm that is not how I understand it, He talked about Jonas at that point I'm pretty sure.
He said the climb Jonas did the day before was insane/incredible interview from stage 5.
Later he refered to it in interview after the TT, referencing that he hoped it was like stage 5 and stage 6 where Jonas was worse after doing a big perfomance on the day before - and he then was subsequently better. Referencing the next days hardest climbs. Pogacars english is not on top so his way of formulating it can be understood several ways, but Im pretty sure this is what he ment.
@@TellusJD well, Jonas' performance on tourmalet was similar or even better to what he did the day before on Marie Blanque. The difference thus wasn't with Jonas, but with Pog that could follow that time.
Now, Jonas might have payed for his effort on Tourmalet and the day before on that last climb where Pog dropped him, but if Pog had the legs from stage 5, he'd have been dropped on Tourmalet.
@@MDP1702 Okay, but it wasnt though, how did you come to that conclusion?
His stage 5 was the best 20 minute effort seen since 1994 pantani Flumsenberg climb there might be other better climbs in the 90s but didnt find any in that time frame. There hasnt been since 23 years at least been that good a climb on that category of climb in tdf. calculated to watts /kg it was 6,92 for 21 minutes. Better than contador on veribier 2009. Just calculate the VAM get the times and the meter of altitude climbed it isnt hard. It was an insane climb on stage 5. No climb came close in this tdf, nor in earlier for that matter (excluding 1990's). He did the climb 2 seconds slower than Contador on verbier, but the climb had 30-40 more altitude meters which means he would have been 3-400 meters ahead of contador on a 10% gradient and that climb on Verbier is considered the best.
Check out lantern rouges analysis of stage 5 not video but the article. You will see. Pogacar would have had to find better legs than he ever have shown to follow Jonas wheel. He has never in his career done similar watts, and Jonas hasnt either it was his careers best climb in numbers. But then came the TT and set the bar even higher. - shorter climb but insane perfomance.
This is what I have been saying for the past two weeks. Pog has only dropped Jonas in the last K or two on a steep uphill finish, whereas Jonas has dropped Pog 4 times for minutes. Jonas has also beat him twice in time trials by a pretty good margin. I hadn't watched 2020/2021 Tours, so didn't know the pattern seemed evident there as well. Pog is certainly an amazingly talented rider, but clearly needs work on long climbs and Grand Tours.
As I have said somewhere else, Jonas is tactical and built for these 3 week races. Tadej is constantly chomping at the bit to race. He wants to win everything, and that can lead to wasting energy. His team was much better this year, with his #1 lieutenant finishing on the podium. I think Tadej's mentality, much like Neilsson Powless(who i am not saying is on the same level of talent), is better suited to the classics and 1 week races. If his tactical IQ improves, which it very well could, he could be back on top again, though we got new guys coming up and Jonas is still there. Oh and Evenepol and Roglic will be there too most likely. Also, the Yates twins may push as well. Still, he is 25. Before the last few years guys didn't really start to challenge until they were 25 to 27. He has a lot of years to win a lot of races. And the record for the TdF is 7. I know, EPO and all that, but everyone he raced against was also. The fact he managed to never need to abandon for 7 straight years is still miraculous, along with being that dominant for 7 straight years against all comers.
Pogi is only missing the calm savvy voice of Allan Peiper to manage his bad days, tricky tactical situations and accelerated rehab protocols....
You get the impression that he is making his own decisions out there and while he is a genius, he is also just 24.
He will continue to dominate until the next Pogi shows up or we understand how Vingegaard was able to do 7.0- 7.5w/kg **uphill** on his TT bike...
I'm sure that Jonas delivered Numbers not seen since Jan Ulrich on Arcalis in 1997 or Indurain in Luxembourg in 1993
Also, super high altitudes in hot Temps is Pogi's Achilles heel. He needs his performance coaches and nutritionists to find a way to protect him under those conditions.
Kid is still a genius...
Jonas Was on dansish tv, he told the 7.0 -7.5 watts on tt is wrong and that hes tt, w/kg wasnt even his best w/kg in the tour so those stats are deffinintly wrong
Alan peiper was available for the 2022 as a guide I do believe but not 100 percent sure. That might be one reason they cut him loose as consultant after the 2022 season
@markussaaby1265 I don't believe him. If his numbers were not extra terrestrial then why does he not upload that ride to Strava??
The back of the envelope calculations based on weight and speed of ascent are still crazy, even if not 100% accurate
That TT was giving Riis 1996 Hautacam or Pantani's record climb up Alpe D'Huez vibes. It was insane...
@@doctornrsfnly Absolutely correct. There is something wrong with Jonas's time trial. He can climb like Pantani (that might be true) but he should not be able to time trial like Cancellara at 130lbs.
That could be true. Maybe Pog is only missing one important person that can see what has been going wrong and adjust it a little so that it won’t happen again. But maybe he gets the wrong person and he makes it worse. 😂🤔🦋👊
The dude is only 24 years old, ffs.
Very true so it’s easy to say he could win for 15 plus more years. But like I said which rider ever did dominate for more then ten. The last dominant riders have only gone ten years of domination or less really. Something to thing about though. 🤔👊🦋
@@ChrisHornerCycling An argument can be made that the present era is perhaps the most competitive since very long time if not ever. It is very hard to dominate, whatever meaning we put into this, when you are up against guys like Vingegaard, Remco, Wout, Mathieu, Roglic etc. Pog was pretty dominant in the spring when Jonas was not good, then the tables turned, now comes the Vuelta and it is someone else’s turn etc. We’ll see how it goes but Pog will be kicking ass for many years to come.
it is pretty obvious the only reason Tadej Gap Vingegard was on one stage in TDF is that Vingegard was actually tired from the last stage. This is when he put a minute on Tadej. He was pulling the other three to the finish line by himself. Even those three were complaining about how hard Vingegard was pulling.
Yeah, Pog lost half of his time to Jonas on the downhill.
People are talking about you on Facebook. You're getting noticed more and more.
Thanks for your great analysis Chris. Tadej is perhaps the most complete all round road rider we have seen in years in terms of his ability in all forms of the sport from one day classics to Grand Tours (but perhaps Evenepoel will prove to be such a rider too in the next couple of years). Don't you think his underlying problem during the TdF itself is that his desire to race causes him to expend too much energy chasing too few seconds of advantage rather than racing conservatively upto the point where he can make a hammer blow to opponents.
I think his future success in the Tour may depend on prioritising it completely over other races in a season, ditching the classics and just racing one or two 1 week tours as a preparation. That would be a personal choice and he may prefer to carry on doing everything. We will know for sure if we see him lining up on the start line of Paris Roubaix 2024!!
He was beaten , accept that , they have been neck to neck in 3 years , until now vinge has been strongest in week 3 , thaths poggis problem can he change that ,he Will win ,until then , vinge Will win
On to the Worlds. My pick is MVDP. Still no clear vision of the Vuelta but it is shaping up to be a banger! Thanks for the bonus coverage Chris! 🦋👊
I’ll pick Pogi then 😅
I know the purpose of a channel like this is to provide insight into cycling tactics, but I think we sometimes get so caught up in our analysis that we forget the obvious. In cycling in general and in tdf in particular it is 9 out of 10 times the strongest rider that wins.
Being dropped on the last mountain on a mountain stage is not a tactical mistake. It is a sign that the other rider is stronger.
To quote Lance Armstrong. The only problem with Pogacar’s recent tdf performances is Vingegaard. Pogo in isolation is a lot stronger in 2022 and 2023 than he was in 2020 and 2021. There was just one guy who was even stronger.
And when you analyze 2021, you need to mention ion that Jonas entered the 2021 tdf as domestique for Roglic. From the point in time where he became team captain mid race we saw the same picture as 2022 and 2023.
Chris is so pogacar biased "jonas on the same level physically" jonas destroyed the tt ,inhuman all time performace, and completely killed on col de la loz. Pogacar is still maybe the best all round rider in the world, but jonas is now clearly the strongest 3 week gt rider and chris is inhaling some wild pogacar fumes if he comes out of this tdf calling them the same level physically haha. love the show
Excellent analysis as always. Best cycling channel, bar none.
Tadej is just starting to dominate it’s not ending at all. The guy came second this tour after a bad crash a couple of months before. He lost time on a mountain descent due to that injury. Seriously! Then on another stage as Chris pointed out he lost more time because of lack of calories. Just think what of the butterfly effect if Pog was introduced to our Mr Horner as a tactical mentor.
What should be discussed is what would bring another team up to the levels of Jumbo or UAE? When Pog isn’t in the race it’s totally dominated by Jumbo and it could be a clean sweep of the big 3 this season.
UAE should bring Ayuso to support next year
I think second place after a prior broken wrist, a crash or two and some illness / off days is worth calling something more than a loss. 👊🏻👍
I just think Jonas has shown more consistency and limited his losses better. He hasn't had the big blow up days. But I don't care who you are, there will always be a better, younger, faster rider to come up and knock you off the top. It's just the circle of life.
I mean.. Remco is the obvious choice for the near future.. Ayuso and Rodrigues may need a little more time.
But I don’t see anyone of them beating Jonas in the tour in the next couple of years.
I don’t see them beating Pogi either but if he has a bad day or 2 who knows.
I don’t see anyone else in the pipeline other than them but then again, Jonas was quite the revelation himself in 2021, same with Froome in 2011 and 12 so we’ll see if someone pops through 😊
@@telmoliciousRomeco has good potentials if he could sort out his issues. He isn’t the obvious choice yet.
@@suisinghoraceho2403 What issues? Only 23, already won a GT, exceptional at TTs, Can ride in all type of terrain.
I dont see another bigger talent more on the rise than him right now.. especially in terms of GTs.
@@telmolicious He’s terrible on rough surfaces. To his credit, he has already addressed downhill.
He also doesn’t have a very good record on finishing GTs (looking at his finishing rate on Giros he did start).
@@suisinghoraceho2403 How many rough surfaces are there in the tour? An Odd cobblestone stage… maybe.. dirt Roads? Rarely..
Poor record of finishing GTs? Won 1, crashed out of one and left one with COVID-19. If u wanna Blame him for pool descending skills leading to the crash ok.. but getting COVID-19? Hows that got anything to do with Cycling skills?
I think that this year's Tour is the solidification of the Vingegaard-Pogacar era for the next 5 or 6 years. Hopefully without any world wars to interrupt their careers.
😂😂😂 Man please…dont’ say such things. It would suck big time if Pog is not able to win TdF 2025 due to the fact France does not exist anymore…
And will Remco, Ayuso and Rodrigues challenge in that time? 🤔
@@tonyg3091 No it is the beginning of Coppi vs. Bartali
@@tonyg3091 PS Vinagarrd and Pogcar may do it again in the Vuelta
Pogacar weak spot is his stamina. TJV knows that. They know what power he can generate and let him ride in the"red" as much as possible. They gamble that he will pay in the third week of the tour. If Vingo cracks he looses seconds when Pogi cracks he looses minutes. We can talk about calories, heat, injuries, altitude, sickness lack of preperation but in the end a grand tour is about energy management. When a rider goes into the red to many times he gets injuries he becomes sick he will crack. We have seen it with Dumoulin in the Vuelta, Yates in the Giro, Pinot in the tour.
Interesting analysis Chris. As always. Let's not forget that Tadej smoked everyone in the time trial except for JV. If it's not for one bad day (perhaps an illness), we might be talking about a trip into Paris where JV and Tadej were sprinting for bonus seconds to decide it.
I wonder your opinion about a question someone asked me the other day. Several years ago, the tour teams used to be 9 riders instead of 8. If there were 9 riders per team this year, who do you think it would have benefited the most, Tadej? JV? Maybe Ineos? Which team has the best depth to pick a 9th rider from?
I don't think this has anything to do with Pogacar prep like everyone else is saying or any of that.... Its Jumbo Visma vs 1 guy.... You stick on Pogacars wheel in the beginning and then towards the end of the tour wear him out. Until he either gets a team of the same power as Jumbo it will be the same story every year from here on out until there is a 3rd team fighting for GC as far as I'm concerned. Yea Jonas is pretty amazing as it is but his team is what gives him the edge to pull him to the end of the tours and make sure he still has legs at the end.
Well, it’s actually Pogi who is sucking the wheel of Jonas for most of the TDF. All the time… He just punches the last km for marginal wins and bonus seconds. He gained at least 30 s more than Jonas on that. I know it looks great, but also a bit pathetic, cos again this year he wore himself out slowly.
This take is simply stupid Yes u need a great team, and pogacar has that? hes domestique yates is litterly 3rd in this tour?
Jonas vingegaard dosnt win the tour casue he has a better team? he wins becasue hes tt was better and better at high altitude
UAE's climbing sqaud was +- equal to that of J-V. While they lack the rouleurs of J-V, that didn't make the difference. Even with a strong team J-V can still do exactly the same. Pogacar losing here wasn't the fault of his team, but just he himself not being strong enough.
I think Pog has more grand tour wins in him, but we may also be entering a golden age of GC competition with Jonas Vingegaard now having won 2 TDFs, and on the horizon some other potentially great riders who are very young: Remco (I expect him to continue to improve in 3-week races), Ayuso from UAE (still very young), Rodriguez from Ineos, ... even others. And if Primoz Roglic can have a great training stretch without injuries and suffer no crashes during a grand tour, he may still be a real threat for another year or so. ... It's a great time to be a cycling fan.
La Vuelta promises to be the biggest battle in UCI history if all these players actually participate: TP, PR, JV and Remco Evenepoel,
Pogacar is so far not scheduled, and pretty unlikely he goes, though I hope he will.
Agree.. this year's Vuelta is going to be a intriguing cracker.....
@@insinty As far as I can see, he'll do the Worlds then Il Lombardia only... He's had a long season, and needs a good break, mentally and physically..
Pogaçar has already started training for 2024 TDF, Vuelta would be a distraction.
Remco team is ill prepared to take on the Jumbo duo..
Brilliant insights. What about the influence of former DS Allan Peiper? A Grand Tour is like a chess match. Talent can take you a long way, but everything in a GT must work almost perfectly. I sometimes feel that Pogi goes 'off-book and does his own thing, not following the plan. This strategy may work on one-day races, but it is difficult to do on a 3-week stage race. I suspect Pogi will race less next season if the goal is to win TdF.
Haha the best youngest rider in the tour is washed up lololol
Chris thanks for your great coverage of TDF. I have a suggestion: we all smile when you mention "your man" Victor Campenaerts. Why dont you do a special video on him so we get to know him better? Keep up the good work!
cycling is not just tour de france.
On the contrary, i feel, it is just the beginning. If he is able to find a good mentor and keeps his racing spirit regardless of his recent loss, nothing can stop him in the future. He is still maturing and will play smart vs all force/emotion.
Jonas Vingegaard will mentor him well 😂😂😂😂
🤫
nah, you're overreacting.
Pogacar showed us amazing performance with as top Tour of Flanders 2 months ago.
But also Paris-Nice which he defeats Vingegaard with ease.
However his crash in Liege can be crucial, he got a surgery which prevents him to train for the Tour exception of last 2 weeks.
Pogacar will most likely target Giro next so he might worn out for next year as well.
If Evenepoel participates, we can also see a battle between him, Pogacar and Vingegaard, if Pogacar decided to participate the Tour too.
There are always riders coming up. Remco and Juan Ayuso will give Tadej and Jonas good competition in the next 2-3 years. Tadej's lack of 3 week stage success is alarming (for him) in that sense
Poggy will win the Tour again!!!......when Vingegaard retires from cykling LOL 😋
lmao......... ironic I know, but unfortunately for Pojadcar it is true.
hahaha.....it was mean lol
With the caliber of riders in the peloton, I wouldn't be surprised if he never wins another tour. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he wins 3, 4, 5 more. Fingers crossed he decides to race the Vuelta this year.
I believe that Jonas time trial performance shows that he is definitely the most fit rider in the world. He I believe that he could gap him by 5 minutes on many of the mountain stages if he really wanted to. I feel Jonas could do a series of short "bluff" attacks up an early long climb...repete this on the next long climb...and then do the "real" attack up the last long (10k) climb. The key is to do a lot of earlier sttacks, that are 80-90% efforts. Jonas is fitter and can wear Tadej out EVERY mountain stage with this tactic. 5k and 20k track runners have been doing this since the 1950's...
Chris excelente Your video , complete analysis, great your conclusions..!! Hopefully you can be on TV for the next Tour of France..!!!!!💛
Pogacar hasn't won MSR either (not only missing Paris-Roubaix). He has 4 Monuments, but 2 of those are il Lombardia (+ RVV & LBL).
Chris I had to comment here. My buddy just text me "I've been riding like a knucklehead, back to structure." I introduced him to your videos during TdF and he's already acclimated 😂 Ride on!
For some reason Chris didn't see the incredible strength of Jonas for so many years, always praised Tadej. Now kind of rewriting the last few years is not very convincing.
No. People have him retiring already. Next season will be his first year not eligible for a young rider jersey! Not sure if he will have 8 grand tour wins, but he likes to compete in the 1 day monuments. He could have a great career if he can win multiple, multiple monuments!
BTW: if I was a sports director for UAE, I would have Tadej focus on the early season monuments like Paris-Robaix and 1 week races, then focus on the La Vuelta. Give Ayuso a chance to compete in TDF, and Tadej can try to win these big 1 day races!
Only reason I'd disagree about the Vuelta is Tadej supposedly is not good in a lot of heat, better in cold... therefore better in the classics and maybe Giro would be good.
love these videos-just one suggestion if its possible, just move clips to match what you're talking about please
Pogi with the heater 😂
Thanks chris
I actually think Pogacar is just having fun. He is still a young rider and wanted to ride early season races too. Was obviously run down, cold sore and looked exhaused
You are wrong Chris. Riding slower to let domestiques come back will just allow Pogocar to recuperate and destroy everyone. The main reason why pogacar lost 2023 tour is the tactics of Jumbo and lighter pure climber weight of Vingegaard. On every stage with hills and / or mountains jumbo kept the pace very high. Little by little the extra kilos sloped Pogacar. In the third week Vingegaard takes the upperhand. If Pogacar is allowed to set the tempo, he will destroy them all. It has more to do with this, than any of the other mentioned causes. Inspite of all the criticism, Jumbo knew very well what they are doing,. Results don't lie.
Great insights Chris. I think Adam Yates is the wrong combination with TP. He needs Sepp Kuss and WVA type domestiques who will always be his lead out. UAE by having two GC options are diluting the fire power vs Jumbo.
It's clear that as he ages he'll need to change up his racing style and tactics but it's a work in progress because he's so good. Beating everyone his way really is something different and if he says in the bus I'm on, not sure the director has a choice. Restraining and restricting his output and efforts, as well as having a better team is imperative to him in grand tours of the future. Strong director is key!!!!. Man I'm so happy we get the privilege of watching this young guy smash em up whilst also get out teamed by a stronger jumbo visma. Be boring otherwise 🤔😉. Great conversation Chris 👍. Rest up Tadej. Spectacular effort off a short prep after an amazing start to the year. No apologies necessary 👍
17:12 - actually he has 'only' 3 of the 5 monuments - Milan San Remo isn't on his list yet, although sometimes it is easy to think that he won that one too.
I still think he's #1: 4 classics including a Monument, close at MSR, Paris Nice, Andalusia, 3rd at Worlds, 2nd at the Tour and the year's not over yet.
He came in second in the TDF. Hardly the end of an era.
Pogacar has said it himself. When asked if he didn't have any weaknesses his answer was: it is easy to see. Long and steep mountain stages at high altitude with high temperatures. Examples: Col de Loze in 2020 when he lost some seconds to Roglic, Mont Ventoux in 2021, Granon last year and now Loze again after what he thought was a tour winning time trial.
He also said that JV was the best climber in the world. Who knows what magical gains Jumbo have made him a top ITT rider also. This has, as far as I know, NEVER happedned before in grand tours. Best climbers, the small guys, have historically always lost minutes, not seconds, in time trials although they were longer and there were more of them previously
Bottom line is they could have done two grand tours for each year. They missed out. Vingo just figured this out and Roglic did last year. Giro-Vuelta or Giro-Tour or Tour Vuelta. Skip the spring classics and prepare for 2 grand tours bringing the show to Italia and Espana
You also have to remember that Pog has not had the team support that Jumbo Visma has given their GC riders. The first TDF win for Pog he literally rode the wheels of other teams and had virtually no help at crunch time. with his second win he was constantly left to fight off two or three other riders at the end (Jonas and Richard Carapaz as i recall in a later stage). Last year i think Pog pressed and took a lot of "knucklehead " chances and it cost him. this year he was tearing the circuit up until his broken wrist in May literally 2 months before the Tour. I think that had to affect his preparation because he could not ride for ? how many weeks. I work out in the gym lifting and if i dont lift for 2 weeks i am not the same when i get back and it takes me several weeks to get back to where i was. Is he done?? Hell no. He had one heck of a spring as fine as any rider has had. If he has a better team around him he could win again as the talent is there and he is young. And i have to believe he is competitive as hell almost to a detriment where his fire to win sometimes outweighs the smarter tactical way to win.
Lololol. UAE had 2 dudes on the podium. He had all the support this year.
Bla bla bla
Superb video as always Chris. Now that the stage by stage is over I notice a slower pace to your vocalizing and that means I can follow you easier 😅.
Great analysis and evaluation and I for one would appreciate you doing more of these types of videos as digging deep into why things turned as they did is fascinating given your deep knowledge and experience.
I love Pogacar as a rider and he is an out and out bike racer but you’re right to highlight his inability to keep it too drawer over 21 consecutive stages even in the tours he won.
Team UAE really need to get to the bottom of this with him so that we can see him lighting up our cycling viewing for the next 5 to 10 years hopefully !!
The Tour de France he won where later in the year than usual. I think his form has not peaked yet this year.
Not the modern era, but Gino Bartali won the tour 10 years apart, and probably would have been dominant during the period in between if not for WWII. I think it was Greg Lemond that said special riders start showing up early 20's, like Tadej. I think you make some good points, Chris... and I think him and his team need to really sit down and look in the mirror. Figure out if the training needs to be adjusted, or if it is solved with more nutrition and better tactics. He seems to love riding his bike, and I think he has the legs to win many more grand tours.
If it is just bad luck (like crashing at the foot of a climb), there is not much you can do. That was one thing I always felt was under appreciated with Lance. Whatever your feelings about him, he was beyond lucky just to make it through 7 consecutive tours without major injury or having to withdraw.
This aged like milk
On stage 17 going up to Col de la Loze that Pogi crashed in the early stage that's why he dropped and lost amount of minutes. That crash and ITT cause his Tour.
Tadej's versatility is his curse. He can win grand tours and dominate 1 week races but he can also win in the Ardennes, on the cobbles, at Strade Bianche. Its hard in that situation to give up on races like Flanders, Liege or MSR, where youve won or are a top favorite. For one trick ponies like Jonas, Froome, Indurain etc, it was easier to simply focus on the Grand Tours. What is Jonas realistically going to win besides a GT? Not in cobbles, he showed last year his bike handling is garbage and he needs Wout to babysit him. not at Lombardia or LBL, nowhere where a sprint is needed. He can therefore do 3 altitude camps and sacrifice everything for one race.
I like Tadej how he is. Pile up the victories, get those monuments. So what if he doesnt win 5 Tours? Who cares?
Here is the other thing, Tadej's main weapon right now is his explosiveness and sprint. With it he can win LBL, MSR, RvV and Lombardia. But it'd also the attribute that goes away faster. Look at Kwiatkowski who lost it in his 20s. If early on is Tadej's window to pile up monuments he should do it. He can focus on becoming a diesel later on.
No offense but youre trying to pigeonhole a great all rounder into something smaller. You were a stage racer so for you its about GTs. But Tadej already said earlier on that his main goal was Flanders, not the Tour. He said it. He can set his own priorities
In the end lets just chill. He broke his wrist, he lost 5 weeks off the bike. When Jonas was doing his third altitude camp this year Tadej was jogging in Monaco and riding his trainer. He didntbeveb have the chance to complete one altitude camp and had to completely scrap wind tunnel sessions, which no doubt had an effect on his ITT. Why are you completely omitting this now from your videos? To justify your decision to rank Jonas number 1, when you said you wouldnt even if he beat Tadej? What made you change your mind? If Jonas lost so much prep time, would he win? I bet he wouldn't even show up. Maybe Tadej should have skipped the Tour and set focus on the Vuelta, but unlike Jonas he isnt afraid to lose.
When I see Tadej attack at RvV or sprint it out at LBL, or even lose badly on a Tour stage, I see a happy kid doing what he likes. Like when he attacked on stage 21. It was crazy, maybe stupid, but fun. When I see Jonas I see a robot pushing watts according to how Plugge programs his little computer. He doesnt seem to be having fun, its a job for him. Hes a little cog in a big machine, saved from complete obscurity. Just see his results before 2020, complete garbage. Pogacar already tasted defeat and it didn't break him. Lets see what happens when Jonas loses his perch
@rafalpruszynski1707 I just love your comment/analysis. (I also remember CH stating JV would remain 4th in his ranking even if he would win the TdF 2023.)
Thanks. It's curious to me why Chris said that and then right after the ITT he changed his mind. The ITT of all things. Makes no sense.
Indurain was not a one trick pony.
One trick pony maybe. But what a trick.
Not a bad take, but ridiculous on Jonas' bike handling. He is not a bad bike handler. He has comfortably out-descended Pog over the last two tours.
Tadej Pogačar' and jonas vingegaard is on other level is like see messi and Ronaldo in there prime as a dane i hope jonas vingegaard win ever time hehe :D
I think the 10 years stat is hard to believe applies to someone starting their career much younger than previous champions
WRF!! He’s still winning best young rider!!! He’s got many years ahead. COME ON!
Now in high mountains during tour vingegaard has dropped pogacar 4 times. Every gt will have at least one stage and maybe two w approx 5 climbs w summit finish and w last climb hc.
Vingegaard outdistances everyone on such a stage. And showed inn2023 can do so when last climb is lower cat 1
P can change his training-bit slower bit longer, train for more endurance. He does that he can get closer to V on such stages, but likely will still be somewhat weaker. And will lose some of his explosiveness and thus get less in time bonuses.
So in mtns he loses time, it seems, regardless of what he does in training next 11 months.
V goes to more altitude camps. P can add more of those in.
I read P gets all the altitude he needs tho-that he has at his place in monoco high altitude room. Tho I am not certain of this.
Uae bikes and wheels maybe not as fast as jumbo equipment.
V descends better than p. Weird to me. But V killed P on tour tt on turns, on his line, on his speed thro turns. In a pinch 2024 tour V can attack P on a descent that ends at finish line.
Given all these factors, hard to see p beating v in tour 2024. Or 2025
But I was completely wrong re 2023. No way did I imagine p losing such time on tt nor on stage 17 hc climb, lose climb. You never know in cycling. And I was so confident that p wd not lose such big time.
He doesn’t like heat, and Jumbo has a super team. He might be a good giro guy with how intuitively he races and in colder weather.
Were any of the example riders you used to set your 1 decade time limit dominating when they were still eligible for the white jersey? If not, it may be worth a time extension. Not sure if the time limit is due to wear and tear (mental and physical) on the rider as they are crushing the competition, or is an overall age clock ticking away.
Similar discussion to when Lebron James entered the NBA at a young age. Would he have longer to dominate, or is that clock limited just by the grind of competing year after year.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the next decade shakes out that Pogacar is the best overall rider but Vingegaard is the best grand tour rider.
There are so many things that can happen though that even if Vingegaard can consistently beat Pog, shit could happen where Pog still picks up more TdF victories.
I agree with the analysis of TJVs tactics on Stage 6 of this years TdF. They wanted to emulate the Granon stage of last year onto this years Tourmalet/Cauterets stage, but it was not as hard as the Granon stage. Plus this was stage 6, not the second weekend. They were right to try given Marie Blanque the day before, but seeing Jonas drag Pogi over the Tourmalet, like Pogi dragged Jonas over last years Galibier was an indication that this would not work out. They should've backed off and Sky-trained the valley and the last climb. No one is attacking a of 3/4 riders.
Also, Cauterets was not that hard a climb as compared to Granon. There were stretches of lower gradients and it didn't go to altitude. Plus Vingegaard was just not very aware on that final climb, allowing Pogacar to use his superior acceleration and get sucked into the draft of the motorbikes, creating an 8 second gap within no-time he then extended over the flatter sections.
The video title isn't justified. First, Tadej is still young, and I feel the broken wrist kept him from being 100% for this tour. He will wear yellow again, some time in the future.
Jonas isn’t going anywhere.
If he’s going to be a tour rider, maturity will ask him to race more conservatively & more tactically. He’ll also have to take TT’s more seriously.
The competition has proven they are there to beat him.
I think Tadej will do better now that he doesn't have the weight of the young rider's jersey. And thanks, Chris, for your breakdown of this and yes, it is nice to see Tadej smile and enjoy the experience, the highs and lows and he is like Primoz in that respect, no? And I have no idea about the what's what with these superstar riders but in the Tour, it does seem to be Tadej v. All the Crazies on JV, with Wout messing up the minds of everyone, pros and pundits and fans alike. And I was all for that last year, the JV payback to young Tadej for his humiliating Primoz two years earlier and it always hurts when all of a sudden your promotion gets snatched by a younger person at work. And tho' it doesn't look like Primoz will ever get that Tour victory, he has learned he has friends who have his back and he has rebounded mightily by winning stage races since 2020 and that's a beautiful thing, everyone needs a Wout to sort things out. 😀
Jonas is 2 years older and did nothing much besides the TDF. When he was 24 he won nothing. Pog has already proved himself and still has time to develop more
@Kimberlytheresam Don't forget JV's impressive 46th place in 2020 Vuelta at the age of 23 ;-)
One of the things that makes me very suspicious towards Vingegaard’s sudden rise to fame.
@@tonyg3091 Hey at least Jonas said he is no longer improving 20% every year, but only a couple of percent. Otherwise we could expect 9 watts/kg next year radioactive TTs
Look at 2019 when he smashed the peleton from front to roglick to win, do your homework people
VERY IMPORTANT, CRITICAL!!! They said Pogi was doped because his out of this world time trial on Tour 2020. Let's have a look what was his and Jonas (time trial Tour 2023) advantage to followers per every kilometer:
POGI gained 2seconds per 1 km to second Dumoulain- VINGO gained 4,5 s per kilometer to second Pogi
POGI gained 2s/km to 3. Porte- VINGO gained 8 s/km to 3. Van Aert
POGI gained 2,5s/km to 4. Van Aert- VINGO gained 8s/km to 4. Bilbao
Let's look the difference between first and 3rd place.
Pogi 2020: 2s/km
Indurain's 1992 best time trial in history of Tour de France: 3,5s/km
Vingegaard 2023: 8s/ km
How many times 2 is 8? IT'S 4 TIMES BIGGER ADVANTAGE THAN POGI!!!
THAT MUST BE THE BEST PERFORMANCE OF 300 000 YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY CONCIDERING ANY SINGLE ACTIVITY OF HUMAN KIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that is certainly not doping, it's something way better! Most probably it is: best biological doping in history + best tech doping + Vingo is biggest talent in history + VINGO most studied and skilled time trial performance. No matter what you recomment, only all factors combined explain so cosmic performance!!!
It wasn’t clean, simple as…
Nothing magical here; 30 sec (much) better technical riding in corners; 30 sec for the bike change; 30 sec more power. Do the math. Especially the bike change was a huge mistake by Pogi and his team.
@@meibing4912 Forget about Pogacar, explain the difference to Wout.
@@tonyg3091 did not see any side-by-side footage of Jonas vs WVA but I saw how Jonas was faster than WVA going downhill during TdF so probably not very different except for WVA not changing bike but on the other hand being heavier than Vingegaard and thus less ideal a TT course for him.
If he gets beaten in the 2024 TdF I see him giving up trying to win the TdF and concentrate on the classics + maybe the Vuelta, or Giro, or just go for stages in the grand tours. Either that, or the opposite: less racing in the spring, more focus on the TdF. But I think he does not have the mentality for that, he wants to race!
Great analysis! Question? What team will Wout be on next year? Will he break his contract as he is noted to do? Second, where do you see Pre. Ro ( spelling ) going after he wins the Vuelta? Thanks, Al
No. If it was. It was insanely short. He had couple bad days TT and Stage thereafter. Then he kicked won penultimate. He had bad days. As sad as it is … the TDF 23 was still ace.
3 bad days. 5,16,and 17. 😬🦋
@@ChrisHornerCycling Christ. Not wrong. Totally forgot the minute lost Vindeeeeeee first week. Bad. My bad !!!!!
Pog did not have a bad time trial he beat the Belgian time trial champ van Aert by 1 min. He lost by 1:38 to a supernatural Jonas
@@malencid sorry. Totally correct. He beat pack by miles just insane Vindeeee whacked them all. Totally forgot this too !!!