For groups I decided to do the Hoops / Clubs final for 2 reasons. First of all, it was a very interresting and different final for me to review (:D) in which two groups I hadn't seen their routines prior the Europeans Championships (Turkey and Azerbaijan) won a medal. Second, the results were suspicious (not that they were voluntarily wrong): 4 groups had the exact same D-score (24 for Turkey, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Israel), and 2 groups had the exact same E-score (7.150 for Turkey and Ukraine, the winning group was determined by ET, 2.05 for Turkey and 2.15 for Ukraine). Reviewing groups is, maybe not a nightmare (that would be a too strong word) but definitly field of mines. After doing this review (and dying while doing the execution...) it seems more obvious than the Execution start value of 10.00 is now not theoretically a good base anymore. Live, judges may not be able to see all the mistakes and gave 6-7 to those four groups. However, groups are doing more elements than four years ago, which means more probabilties of mistakes (that you can't see live). It would be be maybe more suitable to have an execution on 20.00 now (it's even more obvious than in 2019 season). Giving a E of 3 for routines that look ok and not very clean but far from disastrous feels a bit off... Important to notice: Ukraine had 4 drops of the apparatus, costing 2.7 in Execution. Judges probably missed two (subtles) drops (2 x 0.5) Also : If one type of Collaboration overwhelms the composition (for example collaboration with Double throw; Penalty for Artistic Execution 0.20). So I counted for each exercises (and this is without counting the overwhelming amount of CRR(2) over CR(2): Azerbaijan : 20 collaborations / 4 without double throw (20%) Israel : 24 collaborations / 9 without double throw (37%) Turkey : 23 collaborations / 10 without double throw (43%) Ukraine : 21 collaborations / 2 without double throw (9%) There is no percentage given for ''overwhelming'', so I considered less than 33% of collaboration without double throw *EXPLANATIONS ABOUT DIFFICULTY SCORES* aka why is it not valid? I tried to explain each time why a collaboration or its criteria where not valid or downgraded with a little blue phrase on the down left corner. I call ''main'' gmnast the one doing the rotation during collaboration with rotation. Concerning Exchange: criterion not executed by everyone are not valid. Example: when you see a gymnast catching the hoop without visual control and without hand on the back, and I didn't counted it, it's because another gymnast didn't do it correclty (catch with one arm and then the other) or missed it.
As a lover of artistic gymnastics and newly recruited fan of RG I am LOVING this series! Quick question-for when Bulgaria is in the group routine with clubs and hoops (around 14:25) why is their catch of the clubs considered "without hands" if they're caught between the ground and the hand? Is "without hands" anything other than catching it JUST in your hand? Again, thank you so much for these videos! I'll rewatch them to make it all (hopefully) stick in my brain!
Hello! I'm absolutely delighted to hear this, coming from a casual artistic gymnastics fan :) "Without hands" anything other than catching it JUST in your hand: the hands must not touch apparatus. So catching with blocking a club with another club is valid. There is a borderline case with clubs: throw without clubs. You'll probably often see the the gymnasts putting the clubs in a crossed position (exactly like at 14:08). This position will give a "without hands", even though judges can't check effectively (maybe AI will change that) if the club is actually throw without the hands (= if the last impulse is given by the club and not the hand). And don't worry, I'm sure as an artistic gymnastics fan you will have no trouble with rg rules!
I never though about doing a faq but now that you mentioned I should! They do for several reasons: 1. the more you repeat the more you mastered them and are safe about it. 2. they know the judge will count it: when a gymnast delete a skill from a year to another it's because it wasn't worth it (too many mistakes, too risky, no enough point), or because of injuries, or because the judges are not giving it points (example: Agiurgiuculese with her clubs held by another club during a jump, she added a small throw later).
It's really called this way ahah. No play of words or anything. Also search ''fish flop'' in the image search and you will have rather funny findings...
One more question: if an AD is performed during a BD will both AD and BD value count? For example if a gymnast perform an AD (let's just presume it's 0.2) during a split arabesque, so will the final score be like 0.4+0.2? But how about performing in a cartwheel or similar movements? And thanks for your vid again, it's really helpful!
Yes, you can perform AD and BD both together, they are both valid (if correctly performed of course) and you just add points like you said. You can also perform AD during a cartwheel, the cartwheel in itself just don't give you point, but only the criterion ''during a BD''. Like you do throw the ball with the feet during a cartwheel: this is an AD.
hey, i've been thinking about this for a while: how much of the rotation needs to be done in order to be counted? like, which is the point when it stops being catch during rotation and it gets no value?
Only 2 without interruption. I'm not sure I understood the question but here two examples that might could help :)) For example if the gymnast does a walkover during the throw - stop with an extra step - then continue with 2 rotations and catch, the first rotation won't be valid, but the following two will be. This is ok for R2 (0.2) but not R3Z (0.4). Some gymnast catch during the rotation even seeing the apparatus because the rotation (and possible change of axis/ level) is still counted. For example: throw - vertical rotation - start a backward roll - catch finish backward roll. This is ok for R2Z (0.3).
@@ClematisRGVideos oh, sorry, I did not know to explain my question. I remember now one time back in 2018 when you analyzed one of Sasha's routines (I guess hoop) when she attempted a R2, idk the first rotation but the second was a walkover or a cartweel (can't recall rn), but you said it wasn't valid because the second rotation wasn't valid and I saw her bending her back to execute the rotation, her hands were not on the floor yet but it seemed to be it would be fine like a catch during rotation. I've seen some other cases like that and I'm confused, so I want to understand that better.
@@nandacarpada Oh I see what you mean! I think probably didn't count it because she used to repeat the same rotation walkover twice (walkover on one arm and walkover on two arms are the same).
I would say 50%/50%. The criteria remains almost all the same but the there are new rules: for examples you cannot repeat any form of walkover in any other risk (even if the legs position are different), 3 forward rolls are now given more value, outside of visual field as a new definition etc... But the principle is the same! I will do a video to explain in detail how it works, sorry for not having done it, the season is not very usual.
In the first example the gymnast catches the ball from a large throw without sight and on the floor. Shouldn’t the catch be counted as an AD (there is 1 base and 2 criteria’s)? And if not, then why? Maybe I’m missing something😂 and thank you for this video it helped a lot❤️❤️
Hi! As soon as a gymnast starts two rotations below the throw, it's counted as a Risk and not and AD. So you can't count the catch as an AD an ignore the two rotations she did before. PS: There are weird examples where risk and similar AD have the same value. For example you do a large throw and catch without hands and visual control = 0.4 AD. You do a large throw, two rotations below and catch without hands and visual control = 0.4 Risk. Strange considering the risk is more difficult to do than the AD!
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This must have taken a very long time. Thank you so much for this video. Very helpful 👍🏼
For groups I decided to do the Hoops / Clubs final for 2 reasons. First of all, it was a very interresting and different final for me to review (:D) in which two groups I hadn't seen their routines prior the Europeans Championships (Turkey and Azerbaijan) won a medal. Second, the results were suspicious (not that they were voluntarily wrong): 4 groups had the exact same D-score (24 for Turkey, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Israel), and 2 groups had the exact same E-score (7.150 for Turkey and Ukraine, the winning group was determined by ET, 2.05 for Turkey and 2.15 for Ukraine).
Reviewing groups is, maybe not a nightmare (that would be a too strong word) but definitly field of mines. After doing this review (and dying while doing the execution...) it seems more obvious than the Execution start value of 10.00 is now not theoretically a good base anymore. Live, judges may not be able to see all the mistakes and gave 6-7 to those four groups. However, groups are doing more elements than four years ago, which means more probabilties of mistakes (that you can't see live). It would be be maybe more suitable to have an execution on 20.00 now (it's even more obvious than in 2019 season). Giving a E of 3 for routines that look ok and not very clean but far from disastrous feels a bit off...
Important to notice: Ukraine had 4 drops of the apparatus, costing 2.7 in Execution. Judges probably missed two (subtles) drops (2 x 0.5)
Also : If one type of Collaboration overwhelms the composition (for example collaboration with Double throw; Penalty for Artistic Execution 0.20). So I counted for each exercises (and this is without counting the overwhelming amount of CRR(2) over CR(2):
Azerbaijan : 20 collaborations / 4 without double throw (20%)
Israel : 24 collaborations / 9 without double throw (37%)
Turkey : 23 collaborations / 10 without double throw (43%)
Ukraine : 21 collaborations / 2 without double throw (9%)
There is no percentage given for ''overwhelming'', so I considered less than 33% of collaboration without double throw
*EXPLANATIONS ABOUT DIFFICULTY SCORES*
aka why is it not valid?
I tried to explain each time why a collaboration or its criteria where not valid or downgraded with a little blue phrase on the down left corner. I call ''main'' gmnast the one doing the rotation during collaboration with rotation.
Concerning Exchange: criterion not executed by everyone are not valid. Example: when you see a gymnast catching the hoop without visual control and without hand on the back, and I didn't counted it, it's because another gymnast didn't do it correclty (catch with one arm and then the other) or missed it.
Thank you so much for this video.
You're very much welcome :D
amazing video
As a lover of artistic gymnastics and newly recruited fan of RG I am LOVING this series!
Quick question-for when Bulgaria is in the group routine with clubs and hoops (around 14:25) why is their catch of the clubs considered "without hands" if they're caught between the ground and the hand? Is "without hands" anything other than catching it JUST in your hand?
Again, thank you so much for these videos! I'll rewatch them to make it all (hopefully) stick in my brain!
Hello! I'm absolutely delighted to hear this, coming from a casual artistic gymnastics fan :)
"Without hands" anything other than catching it JUST in your hand: the hands must not touch apparatus. So catching with blocking a club with another club is valid.
There is a borderline case with clubs: throw without clubs. You'll probably often see the the gymnasts putting the clubs in a crossed position (exactly like at 14:08). This position will give a "without hands", even though judges can't check effectively (maybe AI will change that) if the club is actually throw without the hands (= if the last impulse is given by the club and not the hand).
And don't worry, I'm sure as an artistic gymnastics fan you will have no trouble with rg rules!
i'm wondering how much time it takes you to make such videos like this?
patience and love...!
Can you do a rhythmic gymnastics faqs or q and a? Also, I've always wondered why many gymnasts repeat the same moves throughout the years
I never though about doing a faq but now that you mentioned I should! They do for several reasons:
1. the more you repeat the more you mastered them and are safe about it.
2. they know the judge will count it: when a gymnast delete a skill from a year to another it's because it wasn't worth it (too many mistakes, too risky, no enough point), or because of injuries, or because the judges are not giving it points (example: Agiurgiuculese with her clubs held by another club during a jump, she added a small throw later).
@@ClematisRGVideos thanks for the answer!!
1:39 Wait, is it really called "Fish flop"? Why can't I stop imagining a fish flopping all over the floor while the gymnast is performing???
It's really called this way ahah. No play of words or anything. Also search ''fish flop'' in the image search and you will have rather funny findings...
@@ClematisRGVideos That search is... interesting, to say the least
Heyy:))
Does the risk count if you trow with your right hand but do rotations to the left side (with the 2022 rules)?
One more question: if an AD is performed during a BD will both AD and BD value count? For example if a gymnast perform an AD (let's just presume it's 0.2) during a split arabesque, so will the final score be like 0.4+0.2? But how about performing in a cartwheel or similar movements? And thanks for your vid again, it's really helpful!
Yes, you can perform AD and BD both together, they are both valid (if correctly performed of course) and you just add points like you said.
You can also perform AD during a cartwheel, the cartwheel in itself just don't give you point, but only the criterion ''during a BD''. Like you do throw the ball with the feet during a cartwheel: this is an AD.
@@ClematisRGVideos Okay thanks!
hey, i've been thinking about this for a while: how much of the rotation needs to be done in order to be counted? like, which is the point when it stops being catch during rotation and it gets no value?
Only 2 without interruption. I'm not sure I understood the question but here two examples that might could help :))
For example if the gymnast does a walkover during the throw - stop with an extra step - then continue with 2 rotations and catch, the first rotation won't be valid, but the following two will be. This is ok for R2 (0.2) but not R3Z (0.4).
Some gymnast catch during the rotation even seeing the apparatus because the rotation (and possible change of axis/ level) is still counted. For example: throw - vertical rotation - start a backward roll - catch finish backward roll. This is ok for R2Z (0.3).
@@ClematisRGVideos oh, sorry, I did not know to explain my question. I remember now one time back in 2018 when you analyzed one of Sasha's routines (I guess hoop) when she attempted a R2, idk the first rotation but the second was a walkover or a cartweel (can't recall rn), but you said it wasn't valid because the second rotation wasn't valid and I saw her bending her back to execute the rotation, her hands were not on the floor yet but it seemed to be it would be fine like a catch during rotation. I've seen some other cases like that and I'm confused, so I want to understand that better.
@@nandacarpada Oh I see what you mean! I think probably didn't count it because she used to repeat the same rotation walkover twice (walkover on one arm and walkover on two arms are the same).
@@ClematisRGVideos 🤦 thank you 💙
@@nandacarpada Ahah! Her coach made the mistake too, it took her few months before removing it
Hey! I have a question: Are most these the same value as in the 2022 - 2024 COP? Also, what are the values?
I would say 50%/50%. The criteria remains almost all the same but the there are new rules: for examples you cannot repeat any form of walkover in any other risk (even if the legs position are different), 3 forward rolls are now given more value, outside of visual field as a new definition etc... But the principle is the same! I will do a video to explain in detail how it works, sorry for not having done it, the season is not very usual.
In the first example the gymnast catches the ball from a large throw without sight and on the floor. Shouldn’t the catch be counted as an AD (there is 1 base and 2 criteria’s)? And if not, then why? Maybe I’m missing something😂 and thank you for this video it helped a lot❤️❤️
Hi! As soon as a gymnast starts two rotations below the throw, it's counted as a Risk and not and AD. So you can't count the catch as an AD an ignore the two rotations she did before.
PS: There are weird examples where risk and similar AD have the same value. For example you do a large throw and catch without hands and visual control = 0.4 AD. You do a large throw, two rotations below and catch without hands and visual control = 0.4 Risk. Strange considering the risk is more difficult to do than the AD!
@@ClematisRGVideos Thank you very much!!! I appreciate your help. So that means you can't combine AD in risks