It’s not actually ’unlimited’ in the BMW 3 series sense, it’s just that there are more of them in 992 form than other earlier iterations. There is a physical limit to the number of GT cars they can build. Taycans are Audis so it’s easier to ramp up production.
This is the kind of thing that can only be explained with game theory. The thought chain is simple "limited editions sell for LOADZA money! I want loadza money so I make more limited editions... by the time the prices crash I'd have LOADZA MONEY!!"
@@KidsinamericaTrouble is, most of the customers for these cars aren't actually that rich. The percentage to cash buyers is low, interest rates will end this nonsense.
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k Rich people finance under the delusion that their cash-money can be invested somewhere else with a higher rate-of-return than the interest they'd pay on a conventional car loan. If pressed, they absolutely could pay cash. If you can't absolutely pay cash for a $190,000 car, you can't afford it.
Pre covid, I was treated like a second class citizen by a Porsche main dealer when I was looking to buy my first brand new Porsche.The experience left me disillusioned with the brand.Wrongly I assumed quality cars equals quality service and now every time I drive near that main dealer I think about going in again but end up driving past .Great video......
Maybe try another, I had four a few years ago and my local OPC (happy to name, Chester, treated me like shit, I could write a book on it) moved to another dealer (happy to name, Wolverhampton, and get exceptional service)
Service is a massive part of a cars ownership experience, this puts me off buying a Mercedes as everyone says the same thing about them. Fortunately I can’t afford a new 911! 😂
At the other end of the new Porsche market, in mid 2022 I visited the Chester dealership when seriously considering a Cayman. I walked around for 10 mins before asking to speak to someone about delivery times. I was a cash buyer. Someone appeared 5 mins later, looking as if I had disturbed her. I said that I was looking for a fairly basic, entry-level model to be told that Porsche would likely refuse to sell me a base model with few extras. They “need to control the used market”, I was told. Sell the wrong-spec cars new and when they come back in, they won’t make attractive used-buys. I was flabbergasted. I do sort of get it, but it could have been explained differently, that getting the correct spec would be to my benefit on re-sale, not Porsche’s. I bought a brand-new BMW coupe, which I am delighted with!
I was offered a GT3 earlier this year after previously asking for an allocation but here is the kicker... I couldn't spec it as it was a previously cancelled preorder that had been built and the dealer smugly wanted me to pay list price. Why would I pay full list for a car with a weird spec.
@@AB-80X You're replying to the wrong person. The OP (jonathan knight) wrote "weird spec" and I replied to him. There is no "weird spec" for a 911 (that I can think of), so he must just mean "someone else's spec".
Same thing happened to me with huracan. I wanted a tecnica they said 40+, i said no. Later they affered me preordered evo at msrp, i said no. Then they offered me a slot for evo. I took it at msrp but even that wasn't a good deal because my only option was AWD which is 60K more. So exhausted. Everyone is trying to screw you.
I have the same car, same colour, but with the platinum wheels. I don't like black cars (It was a bit of a compromise to get a great spec), but the combination works really well. I considered changing the wheels to silver, but that somehow dates the car. All I need now is to somehow get rid of the rear window tint!
I've been a Porsche new car buyer for over 30 years but my disgust with the recent antics of the brand has me hoping that they go through an early 1990s type re-set before I open my wallet in future again.
Finally I might get that GT3 for when it’s too wet for my BAC Mono It’s the only other track car I really hanker after, great cars, terrible way to treat potential customers.
Absolutely, I remember it well. I'd just bought a black Turbo-bodied Speedster with tan interior. ( In Australia ) It's price was soon dropping like a stone, but that's not the worst of it, the real problem was that it was an absolute CRAP motor car, one of the most over-hyped but useless cars I've ever owned.
The cheapest GT3RS on the market at present is £310k Nearly all are sub 350k now. GT4RS cars start below £145k . Don't think it'll be too long before these are down to list TBF.
The GT4RS is doing things a bit differently because it is overall a bit more attainable. This means that even as the economy is strained, the GT4RS will be a possible buy for many. There are definitely people who was into the idea of getting a GT3 or even GT3RS who will now "settle" for the GT4RS, i.e that will be the car some still fight over.
I think this is one more reason why 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s are the best segment in the hobby right now. You get 90% of the experience, at half the cost, and none of the allocation nonsense.
Production numbers (draw your own conclusions which two models will always be valuable if we forget the GT cars and Turbos). 964: 63,762 993: 68.029 996: 175,164 997: 212,964 991: 233,540
Great episode. Fact is, I cannot afford these cars but I am really enthusiastic about the cars and how the actual markets work and the whole culture of ownership and experience, love it.
Another mega video! Last summer I walked around Porsche centre Silverstone (Towcester) for 20 mins and nobody including the two receptionists asked if I needed help...
Just under 40mins at Porsche Guildford.... no interest in me or what I was doing...when eventually I was spoken to, continuously pushed towards electric taycan rubbish... awful awful awful. Said I wanted a 911... but no sir, take a look at a taycan...error no.
After buying every new RS since 2008, I had to buy: Macan GTS Panamera Touring GTS Cayenne GTS Cayenne TGT GT4 GT4RS GT3RS watch with the GT3RS i finally got. And it took calling in favors of friends to even get the car. And every RS I sold is worth more than when I sold it with a lot of track miles (997 4.0 even) I hope it gets back to normal in FL because it takes the fun out of it.
I bought my 992 GT3 in 2021 at my Porsche Center for the list price and onyl had only a 997 C4S before. The waiting time extended from 7 months to 9 months, because of Covid related chip shortages. My Porsche Center never ever offered me a Porsche above the list price (Porsche Soest, Germany). The Porsche dealer in my town (Münster) is a nightmare*, so i switched to the neighbor city. *No prices above MSRP, but ridicules arrogant personel. I am a big local employer and if a simple salesman at the Porsche dealership is trying to make a fool of me, the fun is over.
Fantastic news, I thought it’s only the authorized dealer in Dubai, who despite the fact that I bought 5 cars from and owning 7 Porsche, they still opt to sell to speculators than people like myself… Shall I assume it’s payback time 🎉
Damian, well said Old chap, I hope those in the game of flipping have got their fingers burned or had a somewhat concerning and stressful time reconciling their declining overs and increasing finance costs. Hopefully too, those flippers have a nice shiny Taycan for everyday and the thought of consuming unwanted cars from dealers to remain a premium customer gets less compelling. I still recall being laughed at when I desperately wanted to buy a new 991 GT3 and had to sit patiently waiting until the 991.1 GT3 dropped below asking and I could hunt the right spec car. Over three years later I bought my car, at the time that the 991.2 GT3's had just finished production and dealers were now selling the 991.2 GT3's used and 37 991.2 GT3's available at big premiums, why because 90% of new GT car buyers have no interest in them other than flipping. Be great to see enthusiasts get what they want and enjoy the cars that Porsche built. Right now I am delighted that my 991.1 GT3 would fetch a very low price if sold as it means those enthusiasts can now afford them. I hope I can afford to keep my now nearly 10 year old car
I just bought my first ever Porsche (a 2024 911S Aerokit, 7MT), spec'd to $150K...and the local dealer was disillusioned thinking the market is still 2022 with the markup they wanted. I went 80 miles out and got my order in at MSRP back in January, with a great trade-in price on my M4. The cars are still holding their values better than any other sports car, but the days of marking up a basic Macan are over. Edit: It's worth noting that the US market is still, overall, pretty inflated. All GT3s within 200 miles of where I love in Florida, are selling for over $230K used.
Glad to see that has happened in the UK. As an expat living in Florida, the dealers here appear to be selling every car they can get. I was in the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago sniffing around and heard the GM telling a sales guy that they wanted at least $85k over MSRP for a GT3. As for the Dakar, you're talking 100-200k over MSRP.
@@cp4512 Not necessarily. UK economy has weakened, so premiums gone. Not true in US. Economy and stock market still strong; premiums will remain as long as that is true.
In the US market I dont see these prices dropping the way you are explaining, 992 gt3s in the used market are still 240/250 k and have been for well over a year. What am I missing here?
For Crimety sakes, WHY would you buy a GT3 Touring spec?! I get the GT3 as a package-but the Touring is not as good on the road as the T, and not as good on track as the glorious winged version…I’ve driven/ridden in them all, and for my money…just get the wing.
@@MbTrojansurgeon You may have driven or ridden in them, but you have clearly not lived with them. To even state that the Touring is not as good on the road, is just daft. And maybe not all want the big wing but something more elegant. But let me explain something. Some say the Touring and Wing car is the exact same - newsflash, they are not. The Touring has a softer suspension setup. That's a good ting. I live in Europe, not the UK or US, so I have fairly good roads. I've driven plenty of 992 GT3's and compared to the Touring, they are far from as good on normal roads. Like the 991.2 GT3RS I had which I drove for 18k km, the winged GT3 is way too nervous and skips all over the place. Fine for a GP track, but crap for the road. You may see this as "raw" and racey. But as someone how actually race, a fast race car is smooth it does not beat you up or jumps nervously around. The Touring is a very beautiful car that is still sporty, and with much less to prove than the winged car. Do I have a problem with wings? Nope. Wifey dailies an AMG GTR in bright green, I own both a 981 GT4 and 718 GT4RS. Interestingly enough, both much better road cars than the 992 GT3 "wing" car. Why did the 991.2 GT3 work? Because it was not that different in its suspension setup than a regular GTS. That''s why a Touring is a good choice.
Leasing and low interest rates mean anyone can lease them now. I bought a 996 cab in 2003, in those days Porsche were very rare. Now common place. Leasing is the problem.
It will be interesting to see what the new Macan does to the Taycan model as well . Current Taycan owner migration and new customers who will view the new Macan as being more practicable with newer tech.
Excellent video Damian. You’ve certainly got your money back with the 991.2 Touring, now that they have effectively overtaken the 992 Touring in value. Oversupply means some great buys for future used buyers. Also there has been a huge increase in the purchase price. When the 992 first came out, a base Carrera started at about £83k. Today, the base Carrera starts at £97k. That also results in something Porsche have not done for a long time - discounts, which has a bad effect on each model line where that occurs. When all the models go hybrid, that will have a big effect on used values too. Look at the Ferrari 296 market, people seem to be not liking used hybrids in the sports & supercar market (hypercars not affected). You should do the same video on the Ferrari used market - SF90 & 296 especially. Ferrari was pretty untouchable in the 488 Pista / Aperta era. In terms of US dealers getting Added Dealer Markup (ADM), well that’s effectively happening here in another guise, as the customer has to buy many normal cars before being invited to buy a GT car.
I currently have an i4 on lease. Would anyone have any suggestions where the best place to check for Taycan/Macan lease prices is? Where the recent price drop would be in effect - I’m guessing the main dealers wouldn’t be the best place to start looking? Thanks 👍
I could not agree more, I have owned various Porsche cars over a 16-year period and I have seen a lot of changes in approach, the envelopes started when the new 991GT3 came into the market place and has continued form there. Prior to the 991, 997 GT3s (including RS) could be ordered without having to compromise your moral values and if purchased secondhand no premium was required and the OPC appreciated the business! For reference and to validate all of the above, I still own my 997GT3RS (gen1), 9997GT3RS (gen2), 930 turbo, and finally GT3RS (991.2 Weissach) but when dealing with any OPC their arrogance is unbearable and its good to see them finally taking some pain that may change the way they treat all customers who support the brand and simply want to purchase a car. Its great to see Damian having the balls to call this out as many others in the media scene simply game the system to their own personal benefit, well done in deed! Next video should be on how OPC arrogance has lead them to think that they nearly double the service costs!
I had the same with a 718 Spyder. I went to Porsche with a request for a very well specified 718 Spyder. I was told it was allocation only ? I was under the impression ( mistakenly) obviously Porsche wasn’t in the same Market place as Rolex. I then adjusted my expectations to a 4.0 Cayman Gts only to get to production time and they they had discontinued Lava Orange with no obvious reason. I was told the Spray Booth had been reallocated to another Colour. I cancelled ,they were fine ,we have had no more correspondence. Piss poor performance imo. Driving a very nice Mercedes atm watching Porsche prices tank a little. I have no glee over that , I’m just happy I’m hear watching peoples hard earned money depreciate rather than it being mine. Love Porsche but the bubble has burst and I will get the one I wanted for far less spondules now , winner winner.
@@danhall5761 I think they are comparative now tbh. Percentile wise obviously it’s less on the Gts but both around 20k. I went second hand and found a good deal imo. Someone has lost around 20k on the Amg I have purchased and I think I would have been in that region on the Gts. I ordered 718 Gts it was 82k I’m sure that I would be getting offered from dealers less than 60k for that vehicle. Anyway thanks for the reply take care have a great day 👍
Great Video Damian...the chickens have finally come home to roost. (Or should that be roast?) The cheap-money good times are over, at least now less people who can't actually afford one will be driving Porsches, and the dealers are going to have to re-learn to respect the customers who can! 👍🏻
lol it’s sad but I’m gonna say it.. this is their new business model going forward. The reason behind it is they already make most of their money on services how do you think they could survive through Covid until now with zero to low inventories? Even if the supplies are high the wait time for a new allocation of just a 992 S is 2 years. In my area inventory is still very low in the Bay Area. I would have to go all the way to Los Angeles or San Diego which I have no time in doing especially if I wanted to trade in.
Money is still cheap, go back a few decades and you’ll find real interest rates, problem is it’s been way to cheap and as we’ve seen it’s not sustainable and destroyed the economy
My experience with Porsche dealerships over the last 14 years. Nottingham - Sold me my "approved" 911 with water in the rear lights, a faulty alarm, knackered steering strut bearings and fake wheels. Tewkesbury - charged me £4500 for work on the coolant system and gave it back to me heavily air locked, sent coolant down to me that was heavily contaminated (leaves, dirt) then acted like I was causing them an issue. Portsmouth - quoted me 9k for 2ks worth of work by tripling up the duplication of labour charges, e.g. effort to take the back bumper off and put it back on was on the same job invoice 3 times. Swindon - actually great, never had an issue, polite, would use again. Fixed all my problems on the 911 when purchased and sold me a Cayman S.
I have the same car and when I bought it I could have had the 992 for similar money, but the 991 is so much more elegant and flies under the radar, so I'm not upset with my decision. (This video also helps confirm that I made the right decision) I use the car every day, even for my weekly supermarket shop!
Good call. I have a 991 cab CS and although I wanted a 992, the premium to change was too much. Maybe it’s my reverse psychology, but I now prefer the looks and size of the 991, and tbh it’s still a great Porsche to own.
The ysay what goes around comes around. I remember in 2010 my local Porsche dealer had new 911`s that they could not sell, almost £20k off list at the time. Still kick myself for not buying one, both were manuals also. PDK was king at the time.
I walked around a Porsche Cayenne in a dealership and was never helped. The car was right in front of several manned sales desk! Recorded the entire event because I was being stunned. This was just in 2023! Haven’t been able to view Porsche brand the same since, not matter how hard I try.
Bang on point Damian, it all got way too far out of hand and a correction is much needed. Prices may have been defined by external market forces but there is zero excuse for poor or non existent customer service.
Great video! I tried to get a 992 GT3 RS to sit next to my 997.2 GT3. Firstly I will never get one as I have not greased any dealers. Secondly I have since gone off the idea for the reasons mentioned in this video. Let’s hope things change in the near future for genuine enthusiasts to enjoy these great cars!
Cool video, thanks for the information, gather that the lightly used unsold Porsches, would be exported overseas....most of them ending up in various used car forecourts in Malaysia
I live in a wealthy city, but last Saturday afternoon I saw more than 10 different 992 GT3 RS. I honestly don't remember the 991 generation GT3 RS ever being that common.
In 2003 I flew down to the Miami area to visit a friend and we stopped at a Porsche dealer after working construction that day walked around found the one I liked no one ventured out to greet us.. After 30 minutes and continued on our Journeys that day haven't been back to a Porsche dealer since. There are other brands.
Im in the motor trade and asked in 2022 for an GT4 RS for personal usage, with zero intention to flip it and got the cold shoulder then. By chance talked to the same sales rep in Feb this year and asked about the current situation and promptly got offered a slot BTO for June (even got a discount from list). So very excited to pick up my car in July😊 its my first ever new Porsche by the way
Sounds like their smugness has bitten them on the arse. The Taycan is a disaster. 3 times over the last 20 years I've been to a Porsche dealer to buy a 911, spoken to a w@nker of a salesman and driven home in my Ferrari.
The amount for sale used would suggest it's been a success for Porsche. They have to build them to satisfy regulatory requirements. They can't be fully blamed for the skewing effect of a forced EV market where manufacturers have been compelled to build EVs, almost entirely propped by tax efficient business purchases.
I don't know what's going on in UK, but in the US where I live the Porsche dealers are the most crooked people around. I got my allocation for GT3 some time ago, but the dealer demanded $100k over the sticker price. I asked him if the price would be any different if I picked it up in Europe because that wouldn't count against the dealer allocation (number of cars that they get in any particular year), but he said it didn't matter. As you can probably imaging, I didn't pick up that car. I stung at first, but it's all good.
Boxster and Cayman will be interesting to see in the future. You can't order them anymore (same for all of the 911 Versions). At least here in Germany.
If they keep interest rates the same this year, all luxury car dealers would struggle. But it's good thing to be honest. It keep the Speculators/flippers for luxury items watches and flats/ house of the book. When the interest rates was near zero fpr 14 years even one got mortgages, remortgage and loans. You can only congratulate the USA for the low interest rates, and a bigs thanks to Leehan Brothers and Fannie Mae.
Really great assessment. I have a 4.0 718GTS and they wanted to buy my car after a year then refused me a GT4 build slot and tried to sell me a 2nd hand one at massive premium. I stopped going to that dealer for service. Since then Ive done some work on my GTS for track use and I’ve settled that I won’t go for a GT4. I am pleased that 991.2 GT3 prices have dropped to sensible levels but can’t believe people are still paying £90k+ for a .1 without a G6 engine. In a couple of years I will probably go to a 991.2 GT3 if they come to £100k but I just can’t see the value at the moment even at the lower price from their high at £150ish. Will a 991 GT3 be £70k more fun on track than my manual 718 with lowered gears and 450 bhp? Unlikely.
@@TheCarGuysTV y the lower ratio dif transforms the manual car. Used to be 85 in second and now is a more sensible late 60’s. With a remap the car is blisteringly quick but isn’t so harsh ride as a GT4 but still doesn’t roll on track. Not saying for a second it’s a GT4 but is a great car.
I’ve noticed the prices coming down, which is great news for those of us who don’t have lots of dosh to spend on the cars we’ve loved since we were kids and have struggled to finally get one! I still don’t think I can afford a GT3, but a GTS maybe!
@@TheCarGuysTV Ha, I think my life's calling is to pick some worthless absurd observation in your videos. A few months ago, I complained about too many leaves in the gutter on your garage. But the good news is: I subscribed to your channel, Hit the LIKE Button, and leave a stupid comment. I want TH-cam to like you too!
I can remember the last financial crash 2008, 2009 I was looking at a Porsche Boxster New. It was around £40,000 after a few years when the economy started to pick up it jumped to £50,000 ridiculous
Im thinking of buying a new gt3 but the dealership ship informed me that you need tp have owned a Porsche already in order to get a GT3? Is that right? I am in Canada Ontario.
I asked about a GT3 purchase, but they wanted 65-70K over sticker.... I walked out. I do have a 991 and was servicing it at the time.... Any suggestions on getting one?
@@TheCarGuysTV at the end of the day, it’s still cheaper to actually pay overs than to play the game, by the time you add up all the depreciation in normal models bought. The worst part is, you can actually play the game, spend a huge amount and still not get the GT car you want! Ferrari are more transport in that regard; buy x,y z and get b.
Aren't they sold back to the dealer at a pretty big loss so they can take delivery of an even harder to get car? In that case they are helping the dealership make extra money because now they have a used car that they can sell for whatever the market can bear. I find with Ferrari they want straw buyers to buy cars to sell back to them so they can get around Ferrari not allowing dealers to charge over MSRP. Once the car is used it is open season. I am not huge into leasing so this is a game I do not want to play. Having to lease or borrow money to me means you can't really afford it. You should only really get these cars when you have so much extra underutilized money around you can just pay cash like its no big deal. Otherwise you are just that kid in the psychology experiment who eats the marshmallow the moment the researcher leaves the room instead of waiting for him to come back and give him a second marshmallow if he doesn't eat the first one.
My dad used to buy a lot of p/ex's from Heddell & Deeks back in the 80's/90's. Very nice people. We were good friends with the owner and the sales manager. I had a new Impreza Turbo off them too when they were hens teeth. Porsche were on their arse back then. Practically couldn't give them away. The Cayenne/Boxster saved them as nobody was buying 968/911/928 in any numbers. The new modern dealers might soon be getting a taste of how life was really like 30 years ago when you had to really work to sell a car!
Great video... they've been to greedy and world economics have changed. All this overs bull is ridiculous. Popped into Bournemouth recently as its local to Ringwood and they dont acknowledge you 😂
The suction pipe at the bottom of old, leaky oil cooler on a 1974 Targa S was real close to the heater box - about ten millimeters clearance. I bought new genuine Porsche cooler for it and touched heater box. I hadd to tap the pipe with a hammer for clearance. Also noticed the vent wings open to about 90 degrees then stop when they hit the original upholstery along the top of thr door. The fuel pump goes on without the engine running. If the key is left on long enough, due to CIS injection, the engine can literally fill up with gasoline. But it runs sooooo good.
I’m waiting for the 981 cayman to drop a bit before buying one . They seem to be holding their value still , whereas my trade in is just about worthless according to the dealers 😂 It should be a pleasant experience buying a car but it very rarely is 😢
That's how they work, sell at max price and tell you the market is soft on trade in. I bought a 981 S 1 month ago, £31k fully loaded, 28k miles. Very happy, price has held.
@@Carrera-gp9od agree, I almost went for the 2.7, it's a great little rev happy engine, but the torque was the same as my mk 2 audi TT. You'd have to rev it out a lot of the time. The 3.4 has plenty power, it can get another bump with a tune, where the 2.7 is pretty much maxed out. I'd hold out for the right 3.4 if budget permits. Pse, sports steering wheel if pdk, heated seats and decent rims were my essentials. I ended up with a fully loaded one with a porsche warranty because I checked auto trader daily, right place right time
Silver or gold wheels Damian, do it! Speculative buyer's not going through with purchase ATM probably means they wont get the next car SO could be more available next time. I do think its far cheaper to buy at slight overs when 1-2 years old than buy 5 macans / taycans. You still did the right thing. All you need is weiss gold wheels and an NA MX5 👍🏻
I've certainly noticed a change. I could hang around for ages in a Porsche showroom with no attention what so ever but this week i took my Panamera in for warranty work and had both salesmen and sales manager come out for a chat about new models.
@@TheCarGuysTV Like you I've had quite a few cars. Changed dealer 3 times after being promised a GT3 allocation that never materialised. I currently have four Porsche's but I'm now past a GT3. It's actually quite liberating. I still love the cars, although build quality has gone down and down but I'm all Porsche'd out. Infact I'm that fed up with the whole load of bollocks I'm pretty much fed up with cars. I might just keep my 992GTS to the end. Not really a bad problem to have. But there's lots like me and that's a problem for Porsche.
💯 publicly list the dealerships you have had a bad experience with and others will boycott them, when the owner sees the drop in sales that will get his attention, believe me.
I agree. I bought a new Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S from Archibalds Porsche Christchurch NZ with zero follow up from the dealer after I bought. I still haven't had a follow up. They are useless
I have a 997 Turbo S, and am ready to add another to the garage (the 997 has sentimental value so it’s not going). I drove nearly every 992 (T, S, 2GTS, 4GTS, GT3, GT3RS) and overall, I would’ve picked the T. So, here I am still in my 997, but looking for a 991.2 GT3, but in the US the prices continue to go up. It’s now to the point I can get a used 992 GT3 for nearly the same price as a 991.2 GT3 (manual)… ridiculous.
I am not as lucky as Damian but lucky enough to have a 997.2 C2 for every day, add a nice suspension kit, a few tweaks and these can be wonderful cars to drive every day, I love my 991 GT3 and 997.2 very much, but there is something special about really having to push a lower powered car to get the most out of it. The 997.2 steering is better as well
I have a gen 2 C2S with a chrono pack with extended leather and a nice spec. It was a daily for three years and not I run it from May to October. I'll never sell it. The 911 sweet spot for a modern/ retro to blend. As time goes by and each successive generation of the 911 is released, the 997 makes more and more sense. Having Bluetooth and being able to play music is a small thing but it really makes the 997 a workable daily if you want to. 387 bhp really is enough for UK roads and the size of it sits so well on our road network.
Agree with all, and its even worse in the states as dealers can charge over MSRP and play buy other model games. Porsche has really developed a sour reputation in my eyes.
It's because of the anticipation of the 992.2. Once people see that there is no more manual option and only Hybrids 911s and EV 718s, they will realize we're literally at peak Porsche right now, and it's only disappointment ahead. Couple that with the massive Bull Run in Crypto and Stocks over the next 2 years, and you've got a recipe for all time highs in the Porsche market once again.... Long story short: Hold what you've got, and scoop up what you can while you can.
Porsche has already stated they are committed to ICE 911s for the foreseeable future. Dealers say no more ICE 718s, but I call BS. They’ll produce side by side. The market is going to pop with the economy.
@@billnorblat4047 So far they've said there will be a 3.6 alongside the hybrid. Do you really think they are going to take ICE engines from the GT lineup? We'll see...
@@maxaeonmusic what I've heard from my sources is that the only ones that have a chance of staying pure ICE are the GT cars, and they will not be 4.0 liters.
Do you see that price drop and supply excess only for vehicles with the steering wheel on the wrong side or also for LHD? I'd be interested in a Taycan in Germany if the price is right.
I have experienced similar when I bought a humble Cayman 987 in 2008, which I still own, and while I was in the dealer I asked the finance manager what was the price of the then new Panamera and was told "it doesn't matter because you cant afford it". I moved cities and found the local dealer to be the exact opposite, but I certainly still remember the slight some 16 years later.
Unlimited number of limited editions…
Rich people will absolutely overpay for artificial Exclusivity...
It’s not actually ’unlimited’ in the BMW 3 series sense, it’s just that there are more of them in 992 form than other earlier iterations. There is a physical limit to the number of GT cars they can build. Taycans are Audis so it’s easier to ramp up production.
This is the kind of thing that can only be explained with game theory. The thought chain is simple "limited editions sell for LOADZA money! I want loadza money so I make more limited editions... by the time the prices crash I'd have LOADZA MONEY!!"
@@KidsinamericaTrouble is, most of the customers for these cars aren't actually that rich. The percentage to cash buyers is low, interest rates will end this nonsense.
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k Rich people finance under the delusion that their cash-money can be invested somewhere else with a higher rate-of-return than the interest they'd pay on a conventional car loan. If pressed, they absolutely could pay cash. If you can't absolutely pay cash for a $190,000 car, you can't afford it.
Pre covid, I was treated like a second class citizen by a Porsche main dealer when I was looking to buy my first brand new Porsche.The experience left me disillusioned with the brand.Wrongly I assumed quality cars equals quality service and now every time I drive near that main dealer I think about going in again but end up driving past .Great video......
Thank you, Chris - it’s a common story
Same experience here. It really put me off. I couldn’t decide if it was that one dealer or all.
Maybe try another, I had four a few years ago and my local OPC (happy to name, Chester, treated me like shit, I could write a book on it) moved to another dealer (happy to name, Wolverhampton, and get exceptional service)
Service is a massive part of a cars ownership experience, this puts me off buying a Mercedes as everyone says the same thing about them.
Fortunately I can’t afford a new 911! 😂
At the other end of the new Porsche market, in mid 2022 I visited the Chester dealership when seriously considering a Cayman. I walked around for 10 mins before asking to speak to someone about delivery times. I was a cash buyer. Someone appeared 5 mins later, looking as if I had disturbed her. I said that I was looking for a fairly basic, entry-level model to be told that Porsche would likely refuse to sell me a base model with few extras. They “need to control the used market”, I was told. Sell the wrong-spec cars new and when they come back in, they won’t make attractive used-buys. I was flabbergasted. I do sort of get it, but it could have been explained differently, that getting the correct spec would be to my benefit on re-sale, not Porsche’s. I bought a brand-new BMW coupe, which I am delighted with!
I was offered a GT3 earlier this year after previously asking for an allocation but here is the kicker... I couldn't spec it as it was a previously cancelled preorder that had been built and the dealer smugly wanted me to pay list price. Why would I pay full list for a car with a weird spec.
Exactly - rude
"weird" spec = someone else's spec. Hehehe. 🙂
@@BPoweredLove
Can I ask what made the spec weird? What was it?
@@AB-80X You're replying to the wrong person. The OP (jonathan knight) wrote "weird spec" and I replied to him. There is no "weird spec" for a 911 (that I can think of), so he must just mean "someone else's spec".
Same thing happened to me with huracan. I wanted a tecnica they said 40+, i said no. Later they affered me preordered evo at msrp, i said no. Then they offered me a slot for evo. I took it at msrp but even that wasn't a good deal because my only option was AWD which is 60K more. So exhausted. Everyone is trying to screw you.
Changing those wheels to silver would work absolute wonders
You may be right 👍🏻
black wheels are gash i agree!
I have the same car, same colour, but with the platinum wheels. I don't like black cars (It was a bit of a compromise to get a great spec), but the combination works really well. I considered changing the wheels to silver, but that somehow dates the car. All I need now is to somehow get rid of the rear window tint!
We’re just better that you couldn’t get your hands on a 992
Satin Neodyme would work as well..I can't abide Black alloys......
Absolutely right. I was shopping for a new Porsche, and no one took the time to assist me. (East London Posche Centre)
lol dude that’s always the case tbh
I've been a Porsche new car buyer for over 30 years but my disgust with the recent antics of the brand has me hoping that they go through an early 1990s type re-set before I open my wallet in future again.
I can’t blame you, Ian
Finally I might get that GT3 for when it’s too wet for my BAC Mono
It’s the only other track car I really hanker after, great cars, terrible way to treat potential customers.
Absolutely, I remember it well. I'd just bought a black Turbo-bodied Speedster with tan interior. ( In Australia ) It's price was soon dropping like a stone, but that's not the worst of it, the real problem was that it was an absolute CRAP motor car, one of the most over-hyped but useless cars I've ever owned.
Hilarious. The only generation you can get at half the cost is the undesirable 996. Try looking at a 993 and the story is completely different.
The cheapest GT3RS on the market at present is £310k Nearly all are sub 350k now. GT4RS cars start below £145k . Don't think it'll be too long before these are down to list TBF.
The GT4RS is doing things a bit differently because it is overall a bit more attainable. This means that even as the economy is strained, the GT4RS will be a possible buy for many. There are definitely people who was into the idea of getting a GT3 or even GT3RS who will now "settle" for the GT4RS, i.e that will be the car some still fight over.
I think this is one more reason why 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s are the best segment in the hobby right now. You get 90% of the experience, at half the cost, and none of the allocation nonsense.
exactly. It's where the smart people go.
Had my 84 3.2 since 1997.
Those prices are inflated as well.
Just make sure the bearing connecting the engine to the gearbox has been replaced with something that won't blow up and you are laughing.
Half? You tried to buy a 993 lately….
Production numbers (draw your own conclusions which two models will always be valuable if we forget the GT cars and Turbos).
964:
63,762
993:
68.029
996:
175,164
997:
212,964
991:
233,540
Great episode. Fact is, I cannot afford these cars but I am really enthusiastic about the cars and how the actual markets work and the whole culture of ownership and experience, love it.
Another mega video! Last summer I walked around Porsche centre Silverstone (Towcester) for 20 mins and nobody including the two receptionists asked if I needed help...
Unbelievable
You hit all three nails on the head. thanks for being a truth speaking voice of reason and logic. Cheers!!
Thank you
I’ve hung around in Porsche showroom for hours and been ignored. And I’ve bought over 10 new Porsches in the last 15 years.
It’s amazing, isn’t it?
Par for the course.
Go to Ferrari and see the difference in service.
Take your clothes off.
Sorry, it's the same there.
Just under 40mins at Porsche Guildford.... no interest in me or what I was doing...when eventually I was spoken to, continuously pushed towards electric taycan rubbish... awful awful awful. Said I wanted a 911... but no sir, take a look at a taycan...error no.
Wow - and I thought my visit was bad
Just tell them you dont have electricity at home.
😂@@tartalja
It's still really ridiculous here in the states. My local dealer selling a GT4 RS for about 100k over sticker. Dakar's are going for 375k and up.
Ouch!
Crazy. Can you import one from a Mexico dealer or Canada?
@andrewhurstcars Canada? They are not cheap here my friend
After buying every new RS since 2008, I had to buy:
Macan GTS
Panamera Touring GTS
Cayenne GTS
Cayenne TGT
GT4
GT4RS
GT3RS watch with the GT3RS i finally got.
And it took calling in favors of friends to even get the car.
And every RS I sold is worth more than when I sold it with a lot of track miles (997 4.0 even) I hope it gets back to normal in FL because it takes the fun out of it.
100% it’s not worth losing 100k on a taycan to maybe get a car that’s £50k over list!!
I’m hoping it all collapses.
Agreed.
My neighbour had a Taycan and traded it for a Panamera Hybrid…..he didn’t want to plan his life around charging…
@@foxlake6750why would he need to?
@@foxlake6750 The new Taycan can charge much faster and has over 50 miles more range
The top stuff like GT3 RS are always going to be scalped.
I bought my 992 GT3 in 2021 at my Porsche Center for the list price and onyl had only a 997 C4S before. The waiting time extended from 7 months to 9 months, because of Covid related chip shortages. My Porsche Center never ever offered me a Porsche above the list price (Porsche Soest, Germany). The Porsche dealer in my town (Münster) is a nightmare*, so i switched to the neighbor city.
*No prices above MSRP, but ridicules arrogant personel. I am a big local employer and if a simple salesman at the Porsche dealership is trying to make a fool of me, the fun is over.
Fantastic news, I thought it’s only the authorized dealer in Dubai, who despite the fact that I bought 5 cars from and owning 7 Porsche, they still opt to sell to speculators than people like myself… Shall I assume it’s payback time 🎉
speculators give them a cut
Damian, well said Old chap, I hope those in the game of flipping have got their fingers burned or had a somewhat concerning and stressful time reconciling their declining overs and increasing finance costs. Hopefully too, those flippers have a nice shiny Taycan for everyday and the thought of consuming unwanted cars from dealers to remain a premium customer gets less compelling. I still recall being laughed at when I desperately wanted to buy a new 991 GT3 and had to sit patiently waiting until the 991.1 GT3 dropped below asking and I could hunt the right spec car. Over three years later I bought my car, at the time that the 991.2 GT3's had just finished production and dealers were now selling the 991.2 GT3's used and 37 991.2 GT3's available at big premiums, why because 90% of new GT car buyers have no interest in them other than flipping.
Be great to see enthusiasts get what they want and enjoy the cars that Porsche built. Right now I am delighted that my 991.1 GT3 would fetch a very low price if sold as it means those enthusiasts can now afford them. I hope I can afford to keep my now nearly 10 year old car
I just bought my first ever Porsche (a 2024 911S Aerokit, 7MT), spec'd to $150K...and the local dealer was disillusioned thinking the market is still 2022 with the markup they wanted. I went 80 miles out and got my order in at MSRP back in January, with a great trade-in price on my M4. The cars are still holding their values better than any other sports car, but the days of marking up a basic Macan are over.
Edit: It's worth noting that the US market is still, overall, pretty inflated. All GT3s within 200 miles of where I love in Florida, are selling for over $230K used.
Good to hear that you’re winning, Lockingdiff 👍🏻
5-600k in Australia
Glad to see that has happened in the UK. As an expat living in Florida, the dealers here appear to be selling every car they can get. I was in the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago sniffing around and heard the GM telling a sales guy that they wanted at least $85k over MSRP for a GT3. As for the Dakar, you're talking 100-200k over MSRP.
US will follow UK/Europe prices after a while.
@@cp4512 Not necessarily. UK economy has weakened, so premiums gone. Not true in US. Economy and stock market still strong; premiums will remain as long as that is true.
@@leonardleichnitz5867surprising.
I thought the US was printing money at historic rates….hence gold and silver rising…
@@leonardleichnitz5867 Overall UK car sales are up 10.4% YTD. Porsche sales down by 19%
Yes gordon chevrolet have a z06 25 k over sticker same time last yr they had one forsale for the same 25 k over
In the US market I dont see these prices dropping the way you are explaining, 992 gt3s in the used market are still 240/250 k and have been for well over a year. What am I missing here?
Great to hear common sense from a genuine enthusiast, thanks.
No worries!
The touring thing is so stupid. It's just a wing delete. People paying premiums for this are daft imo.
For Crimety sakes, WHY would you buy a GT3 Touring spec?! I get the GT3 as a package-but the Touring is not as good on the road as the T, and not as good on track as the glorious winged version…I’ve driven/ridden in them all, and for my money…just get the wing.
OOOOOOH - you big race driver you - HA@@MbTrojansurgeon
@@geneva760 LOL. Come on, man. You don't even know who he is.
@@MbTrojansurgeon
You may have driven or ridden in them, but you have clearly not lived with them.
To even state that the Touring is not as good on the road, is just daft. And maybe not all want the big wing but something more elegant.
But let me explain something. Some say the Touring and Wing car is the exact same - newsflash, they are not. The Touring has a softer suspension setup. That's a good ting. I live in Europe, not the UK or US, so I have fairly good roads. I've driven plenty of 992 GT3's and compared to the Touring, they are far from as good on normal roads. Like the 991.2 GT3RS I had which I drove for 18k km, the winged GT3 is way too nervous and skips all over the place. Fine for a GP track, but crap for the road. You may see this as "raw" and racey. But as someone how actually race, a fast race car is smooth it does not beat you up or jumps nervously around. The Touring is a very beautiful car that is still sporty, and with much less to prove than the winged car. Do I have a problem with wings? Nope. Wifey dailies an AMG GTR in bright green, I own both a 981 GT4 and 718 GT4RS. Interestingly enough, both much better road cars than the 992 GT3 "wing" car. Why did the 991.2 GT3 work? Because it was not that different in its suspension setup than a regular GTS.
That''s why a Touring is a good choice.
@@MbTrojansurgeon how is the touring not as good on the road as a T? there isnt really that much special about a T in my humble opinion
Leasing and low interest rates mean anyone can lease them now.
I bought a 996 cab in 2003, in those days Porsche were very rare.
Now common place.
Leasing is the problem.
Low interest rates today ??
The price of a replacement battery for the Taycan is a big turn off.
Very big.
Informative Damian. Thank you for the effort!
It's been more than a year since the last garage update?
Agreed, I’ll be doing one soon
It will be interesting to see what the new Macan does to the Taycan model as well . Current Taycan owner migration and new customers who will view the new Macan as being more practicable with newer tech.
Excellent video Damian. You’ve certainly got your money back with the 991.2 Touring, now that they have effectively overtaken the 992 Touring in value. Oversupply means some great buys for future used buyers. Also there has been a huge increase in the purchase price. When the 992 first came out, a base Carrera started at about £83k. Today, the base Carrera starts at £97k.
That also results in something Porsche have not done for a long time - discounts, which has a bad effect on each model line where that occurs.
When all the models go hybrid, that will have a big effect on used values too. Look at the Ferrari 296 market, people seem to be not liking used hybrids in the sports & supercar market (hypercars not affected). You should do the same video on the Ferrari used market - SF90 & 296 especially. Ferrari was pretty untouchable in the 488 Pista / Aperta era.
In terms of US dealers getting Added Dealer Markup (ADM), well that’s effectively happening here in another guise, as the customer has to buy many normal cars before being invited to buy a GT car.
I currently have an i4 on lease.
Would anyone have any suggestions where the best place to check for Taycan/Macan lease prices is?
Where the recent price drop would be in effect - I’m guessing the main dealers wouldn’t be the best place to start looking?
Thanks 👍
That’s a staggeringly small amount of uk 991.2 tourings. I had no idea. Definitely a keeper. Thanks for another great video guys.
I know - I had no idea either
I could not agree more, I have owned various Porsche cars over a 16-year period and I have seen a lot of changes in approach, the envelopes started when the new 991GT3 came into the market place and has continued form there. Prior to the 991, 997 GT3s (including RS) could be ordered without having to compromise your moral values and if purchased secondhand no premium was required and the OPC appreciated the business! For reference and to validate all of the above, I still own my 997GT3RS (gen1), 9997GT3RS (gen2), 930 turbo, and finally GT3RS (991.2 Weissach) but when dealing with any OPC their arrogance is unbearable and its good to see them finally taking some pain that may change the way they treat all customers who support the brand and simply want to purchase a car. Its great to see Damian having the balls to call this out as many others in the media scene simply game the system to their own personal benefit, well done in deed! Next video should be on how OPC arrogance has lead them to think that they nearly double the service costs!
I had the same with a 718 Spyder. I went to Porsche with a request for a very well specified 718 Spyder. I was told it was allocation only ? I was under the impression ( mistakenly) obviously Porsche wasn’t in the same Market place as Rolex. I then adjusted my expectations to a 4.0 Cayman Gts only to get to production time and they they had discontinued Lava Orange with no obvious reason. I was told the Spray Booth had been reallocated to another Colour. I cancelled ,they were fine ,we have had no more correspondence. Piss poor performance imo. Driving a very nice Mercedes atm watching Porsche prices tank a little. I have no glee over that , I’m just happy I’m hear watching peoples hard earned money depreciate rather than it being mine. Love Porsche but the bubble has burst and I will get the one I wanted for far less spondules now , winner winner.
You’ll of lost more on that merc than if you’d bought the 718 to begin with my friend
@@danhall5761 I think they are comparative now tbh. Percentile wise obviously it’s less on the Gts but both around 20k. I went second hand and found a good deal imo. Someone has lost around 20k on the Amg I have purchased and I think I would have been in that region on the Gts. I ordered 718 Gts it was 82k I’m sure that I would be getting offered from dealers less than 60k for that vehicle. Anyway thanks for the reply take care have a great day 👍
Very true - I had a rude sales guy that wouldn’t answer simple questions I had
Great Video Damian...the chickens have finally come home to roost. (Or should that be roast?) The cheap-money good times are over, at least now less people who can't actually afford one will be driving Porsches, and the dealers are going to have to re-learn to respect the customers who can! 👍🏻
Let’s hope so
lol it’s sad but I’m gonna say it.. this is their new business model going forward. The reason behind it is they already make most of their money on services how do you think they could survive through Covid until now with zero to low inventories? Even if the supplies are high the wait time for a new allocation of just a 992 S is 2 years. In my area inventory is still very low in the Bay Area. I would have to go all the way to Los Angeles or San Diego which I have no time in doing especially if I wanted to trade in.
Well said
Money is still cheap, go back a few decades and you’ll find real interest rates, problem is it’s been way to cheap and as we’ve seen it’s not sustainable and destroyed the economy
My experience with Porsche dealerships over the last 14 years.
Nottingham - Sold me my "approved" 911 with water in the rear lights, a faulty alarm, knackered steering strut bearings and fake wheels.
Tewkesbury - charged me £4500 for work on the coolant system and gave it back to me heavily air locked, sent coolant down to me that was heavily contaminated (leaves, dirt) then acted like I was causing them an issue.
Portsmouth - quoted me 9k for 2ks worth of work by tripling up the duplication of labour charges, e.g. effort to take the back bumper off and put it back on was on the same job invoice 3 times.
Swindon - actually great, never had an issue, polite, would use again. Fixed all my problems on the 911 when purchased and sold me a Cayman S.
Swindon it is then 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I have the same car and when I bought it I could have had the 992 for similar money, but the 991 is so much more elegant and flies under the radar, so I'm not upset with my decision. (This video also helps confirm that I made the right decision) I use the car every day, even for my weekly supermarket shop!
You made the right decision.
Good call. I have a 991 cab CS and although I wanted a 992, the premium to change was too much. Maybe it’s my reverse psychology, but I now prefer the looks and size of the 991, and tbh it’s still a great Porsche to own.
The ysay what goes around comes around. I remember in 2010 my local Porsche dealer had new 911`s that they could not sell, almost £20k off list at the time. Still kick myself for not buying one, both were manuals also. PDK was king at the time.
Really fantastic video!!!! Let's hope things pan out the way you hope - it would be a great thing!
I hope so too!
This is the first video I’ve ever watched from you. Thoroughly enjoyed the no nonsense approach to this. You’ve picked up a new subscriber 👍🏻
Welcome aboard!
BEST TH-cam.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PCA member here. Learned to drive on 911. Thank you for this outstanding informational posting.
Absolutely spot on. I can not wait for the market to cool off in South Florida. USA
I walked around a Porsche Cayenne in a dealership and was never helped. The car was right in front of several manned sales desk! Recorded the entire event because I was being stunned. This was just in 2023! Haven’t been able to view Porsche brand the same since, not matter how hard I try.
Outrageous! I wish I’d filmed mine
I don't understand why you just ask someone to help you out? is this a thing? Do you need confirmation you are somebody important to be asked first?
Bang on point Damian, it all got way too far out of hand and a correction is much needed. Prices may have been defined by external market forces but there is zero excuse for poor or non existent customer service.
Yes!
Did they run out of influenzers?
😂😂😂
Great video! I tried to get a 992 GT3 RS to sit next to my 997.2 GT3. Firstly I will never get one as I have not greased any dealers. Secondly I have since gone off the idea for the reasons mentioned in this video. Let’s hope things change in the near future for genuine enthusiasts to enjoy these great cars!
Well said
Both fascinating and brilliant. It makes one wonder how low will the prices go on some of the so called special models.
Cool video, thanks for the information, gather that the lightly used unsold Porsches, would be exported overseas....most of them ending up in various used car forecourts in Malaysia
I recently went into a U.S. Porsche dealership and was completely ignored . Horrible treatment!!!
They will treat you differently if you were a star or celebrity like Jay Leno.
Sad to hear, Anthony
Great stuff mate, pls keep on doing this. All this is exactly why I’m holding of from walking into a Porsche dealership.. cheers..
Thanks, will do!
I live in a wealthy city, but last Saturday afternoon I saw more than 10 different 992 GT3 RS. I honestly don't remember the 991 generation GT3 RS ever being that common.
Fair point
In 2003 I flew down to the Miami area to visit a friend and we stopped at a Porsche dealer after working construction that day walked around found the one I liked no one ventured out to greet us..
After 30 minutes and continued on our Journeys that day haven't been back to a Porsche dealer since. There are other brands.
Sadly familiar story. Hopefully, things have changed now.
Strangely enough I received excellent service from my local Porsche centre today, that is unusual 😂 Maybe it is starting to bite.
Im in the motor trade and asked in 2022 for an GT4 RS for personal usage, with zero intention to flip it and got the cold shoulder then. By chance talked to the same sales rep in Feb this year and asked about the current situation and promptly got offered a slot BTO for June (even got a discount from list). So very excited to pick up my car in July😊 its my first ever new Porsche by the way
Huzzah!
Sounds like their smugness has bitten them on the arse. The Taycan is a disaster. 3 times over the last 20 years I've been to a Porsche dealer to buy a 911, spoken to a w@nker of a salesman and driven home in my Ferrari.
The amount for sale used would suggest it's been a success for Porsche. They have to build them to satisfy regulatory requirements. They can't be fully blamed for the skewing effect of a forced EV market where manufacturers have been compelled to build EVs, almost entirely propped by tax efficient business purchases.
I don't know what's going on in UK, but in the US where I live the Porsche dealers are the most crooked people around. I got my allocation for GT3 some time ago, but the dealer demanded $100k over the sticker price. I asked him if the price would be any different if I picked it up in Europe because that wouldn't count against the dealer allocation (number of cars that they get in any particular year), but he said it didn't matter. As you can probably imaging, I didn't pick up that car. I stung at first, but it's all good.
Boxster and Cayman will be interesting to see in the future. You can't order them anymore (same for all of the 911 Versions). At least here in Germany.
I was at the reading dealership yesterday I’ve never seen so many tycans in a car park
If they keep interest rates the same this year, all luxury car dealers would struggle.
But it's good thing to be honest.
It keep the Speculators/flippers for luxury items watches and flats/ house of the book.
When the interest rates was near zero fpr 14 years even one got mortgages, remortgage and loans.
You can only congratulate the USA for the low interest rates, and a bigs thanks to Leehan Brothers and Fannie Mae.
I'd give a double thumbs up on this if I could. Clear, candid and accurate. Thank you !
Wow, thank you!
Great video Damian! When are going to start doing videos on your amazing watch collection? Best regards
Thanks, Andre. Maybe one day!
I confirm: walked around Porsche Levallois (near Paris) for half an hour without being noticed. Ended up buying a Ferrari.
Sad story. Sadly common.
Hearing all this stuff about premiums, snotty dealers and allocations makes me sort of glad that all of them are outside my price range!
Yes, and I was treated like crap looking for a Job at these places lol
Really great assessment. I have a 4.0 718GTS and they wanted to buy my car after a year then refused me a GT4 build slot and tried to sell me a 2nd hand one at massive premium. I stopped going to that dealer for service. Since then Ive done some work on my GTS for track use and I’ve settled that I won’t go for a GT4. I am pleased that 991.2 GT3 prices have dropped to sensible levels but can’t believe people are still paying £90k+ for a .1 without a G6 engine. In a couple of years I will probably go to a 991.2 GT3 if they come to £100k but I just can’t see the value at the moment even at the lower price from their high at £150ish. Will a 991 GT3 be £70k more fun on track than my manual 718 with lowered gears and 450 bhp? Unlikely.
Very interesting, Michael. Sounds like you’ve got your car just the way you want it.
@@TheCarGuysTV y the lower ratio dif transforms the manual car. Used to be 85 in second and now is a more sensible late 60’s. With a remap the car is blisteringly quick but isn’t so harsh ride as a GT4 but still doesn’t roll on track. Not saying for a second it’s a GT4 but is a great car.
Great topic, spot on conclusions, Ace channel :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you 👍🏻
I’ve noticed the prices coming down, which is great news for those of us who don’t have lots of dosh to spend on the cars we’ve loved since we were kids and have struggled to finally get one! I still don’t think I can afford a GT3, but a GTS maybe!
Great info and I vote (is there a pole?) for silver wheels too!
I know I know
@@TheCarGuysTV Ha, I think my life's calling is to pick some worthless absurd observation in your videos. A few months ago, I complained about too many leaves in the gutter on your garage. But the good news is: I subscribed to your channel, Hit the LIKE Button, and leave a stupid comment. I want TH-cam to like you too!
Thanks, Ronin
I can remember the last financial crash 2008, 2009 I was looking at a Porsche Boxster New. It was around £40,000 after a few years when the economy started to pick up it jumped to £50,000 ridiculous
This sounds a very similar situation as the Rolex watch market.
Sure is
Where’s the best source to monitor Rolex price declines?
What about Rolex’s?
Im thinking of buying a new gt3 but the dealership ship informed me that you need tp have owned a Porsche already in order to get a GT3? Is that right? I am in Canada Ontario.
Same happening in the watch world especially Rolex ADs
So right about the dealers! I took my 996 Turbo in for some work on the electrics/sensors. They’d never seen one before.
😂😂😂
Still can't afford one unless i win the lottery
I asked about a GT3 purchase, but they wanted 65-70K over sticker.... I walked out. I do have a 991 and was servicing it at the time.... Any suggestions on getting one?
Thank you, Damian
👍🏻👍🏻
Have you put some Carbon Folding Buckets in your GT3 Touring? I could have sworn you had comforts in her originally?
No, it’s always had buckets, but I swapped out the centres for 911R houndstooth
Anyone who sold their 992.1 GT car should be out of the allocation list for the following 992.2 model cycle.
There needs to be some kind of system
@@TheCarGuysTV at the end of the day, it’s still cheaper to actually pay overs than to play the game, by the time you add up all the depreciation in normal models bought.
The worst part is, you can actually play the game, spend a huge amount and still not get the GT car you want! Ferrari are more transport in that regard; buy x,y z and get b.
Aren't they sold back to the dealer at a pretty big loss so they can take delivery of an even harder to get car? In that case they are helping the dealership make extra money because now they have a used car that they can sell for whatever the market can bear. I find with Ferrari they want straw buyers to buy cars to sell back to them so they can get around Ferrari not allowing dealers to charge over MSRP. Once the car is used it is open season. I am not huge into leasing so this is a game I do not want to play. Having to lease or borrow money to me means you can't really afford it. You should only really get these cars when you have so much extra underutilized money around you can just pay cash like its no big deal. Otherwise you are just that kid in the psychology experiment who eats the marshmallow the moment the researcher leaves the room instead of waiting for him to come back and give him a second marshmallow if he doesn't eat the first one.
My dad used to buy a lot of p/ex's from Heddell & Deeks back in the 80's/90's. Very nice people. We were good friends with the owner and the sales manager. I had a new Impreza Turbo off them too when they were hens teeth. Porsche were on their arse back then. Practically couldn't give them away. The Cayenne/Boxster saved them as nobody was buying 968/911/928 in any numbers. The new modern dealers might soon be getting a taste of how life was really like 30 years ago when you had to really work to sell a car!
Great video... they've been to greedy and world economics have changed.
All this overs bull is ridiculous.
Popped into Bournemouth recently as its local to Ringwood and they dont acknowledge you 😂
Thanks for sharing
The suction pipe at the bottom of old, leaky oil cooler on a 1974 Targa S was real close to the heater box - about ten millimeters clearance. I bought new genuine Porsche cooler for it and touched heater box. I hadd to tap the pipe with a hammer for clearance. Also noticed the vent wings open to about 90 degrees then stop when they hit the original upholstery along the top of thr door. The fuel pump goes on
without the engine running. If the key is left on long enough, due to CIS injection, the engine can literally fill up with gasoline. But it runs sooooo good.
I’m waiting for the 981 cayman to drop a bit before buying one .
They seem to be holding their value still , whereas my trade in is just about worthless according to the dealers 😂
It should be a pleasant experience buying a car but it very rarely is 😢
That's how they work, sell at max price and tell you the market is soft on trade in. I bought a 981 S 1 month ago, £31k fully loaded, 28k miles. Very happy, price has held.
@@Jay-xr3sb
That’s exactly what I’m after .
Seems to be loads of 2.7s on the market not so many good spec 3.4s .
@@Carrera-gp9od agree, I almost went for the 2.7, it's a great little rev happy engine, but the torque was the same as my mk 2 audi TT. You'd have to rev it out a lot of the time.
The 3.4 has plenty power, it can get another bump with a tune, where the 2.7 is pretty much maxed out.
I'd hold out for the right 3.4 if budget permits. Pse, sports steering wheel if pdk, heated seats and decent rims were my essentials. I ended up with a fully loaded one with a porsche warranty because I checked auto trader daily, right place right time
Porsche Taycan depreciate like cheese, Losing almost $100,000 in value within 3 years what a terrible car to buy.
Or a brilliant buy second hand
You'll find a lot of people who had them were company registered because of the zero BIK tax on ev cars so it was a win win for them.
How many of the new ones does porsche have built already?
@@benaantje9365 Given the prices of 911 lightweight/lithium batteries, I'd hate to see the bill on replacing the Taycan's batteries.
All EVs depreciate alot.
Here in the US its still bad. If you want a GT car, the dealer still tacks on the ADM. they factor it into the sale... not the resale.
Outrageous thing to do imho
Great content, possibly the consumer is slowly winning….?? And as someone who has already stated….. change those hideous black wheels ffs…
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That is why I drive a 996.2 GT3. Gives you a smile whenever you drive it and prices are somehow stable, at least here in Switzerland
I love that car
And Gen Z don’t care about cars so Porsche dealers, enjoy it while you can
I love Gen Z on so many levels!
Nah Gen Z is still into cars as the other generations…
@@janneshildebrandt1 only when someone is driving them, aka Uber😓
Everything you are saying is spot on....even in the U.S.A. I can't believe how many people are dumping GT3's...less than what I paid for my 992 C2.
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Silver or gold wheels Damian, do it! Speculative buyer's not going through with purchase ATM probably means they wont get the next car SO could be more available next time. I do think its far cheaper to buy at slight overs when 1-2 years old than buy 5 macans / taycans. You still did the right thing. All you need is weiss gold wheels and an NA MX5 👍🏻
I've certainly noticed a change. I could hang around for ages in a Porsche showroom with no attention what so ever but this week i took my Panamera in for warranty work and had both salesmen and sales manager come out for a chat about new models.
Interesting
@@TheCarGuysTV Like you I've had quite a few cars. Changed dealer 3 times after being promised a GT3 allocation that never materialised. I currently have four Porsche's but I'm now past a GT3. It's actually quite liberating. I still love the cars, although build quality has gone down and down but I'm all Porsche'd out. Infact I'm that fed up with the whole load of bollocks I'm pretty much fed up with cars. I might just keep my 992GTS to the end. Not really a bad problem to have. But there's lots like me and that's a problem for Porsche.
💯 publicly list the dealerships you have had a bad experience with and others will boycott them, when the owner sees the drop in sales that will get his attention, believe me.
I agree. I bought a new Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S from Archibalds Porsche Christchurch NZ with zero follow up from the dealer after I bought. I still haven't had a follow up. They are useless
Just buy a gen 2 997 and be happy 👌🏻
Much truth
I have a 997 Turbo S, and am ready to add another to the garage (the 997 has sentimental value so it’s not going). I drove nearly every 992 (T, S, 2GTS, 4GTS, GT3, GT3RS) and overall, I would’ve picked the T. So, here I am still in my 997, but looking for a 991.2 GT3, but in the US the prices continue to go up. It’s now to the point I can get a used 992 GT3 for nearly the same price as a 991.2 GT3 (manual)… ridiculous.
Or a gen 1 turbo with a manual transmission
I am not as lucky as Damian but lucky enough to have a 997.2 C2 for every day, add a nice suspension kit, a few tweaks and these can be wonderful cars to drive every day, I love my 991 GT3 and 997.2 very much, but there is something special about really having to push a lower powered car to get the most out of it. The 997.2 steering is better as well
I have a gen 2 C2S with a chrono pack with extended leather and a nice spec.
It was a daily for three years and not I run it from May to October.
I'll never sell it.
The 911 sweet spot for a modern/ retro to blend. As time goes by and each successive generation of the 911 is released, the 997 makes more and more sense.
Having Bluetooth and being able to play music is a small thing but it really makes the 997 a workable daily if you want to.
387 bhp really is enough for UK roads and the size of it sits so well on our road network.
Damian's mic drop moment whilst he moon walks out of camera view - Priceless
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Ouch! Chris Harris will be bending your ears almost as much as he bent that GT3 next time he sees you. That made me laugh out loud. 🤣🤣
I only reported what was already known.
Agree with all, and its even worse in the states as dealers can charge over MSRP and play buy other model games. Porsche has really developed a sour reputation in my eyes.
It's because of the anticipation of the 992.2.
Once people see that there is no more manual option and only Hybrids 911s and EV 718s, they will realize we're literally at peak Porsche right now, and it's only disappointment ahead.
Couple that with the massive Bull Run in Crypto and Stocks over the next 2 years, and you've got a recipe for all time highs in the Porsche market once again....
Long story short: Hold what you've got, and scoop up what you can while you can.
Porsche has already stated they are committed to ICE 911s for the foreseeable future. Dealers say no more ICE 718s, but I call BS. They’ll produce side by side. The market is going to pop with the economy.
@@kerosenefilms yes, but by "ICE", they mean hybrid. And there will be no manual either.
The 911 will be hybrid only and no manual option. Only EV 718.
@@billnorblat4047 So far they've said there will be a 3.6 alongside the hybrid. Do you really think they are going to take ICE engines from the GT lineup? We'll see...
@@maxaeonmusic what I've heard from my sources is that the only ones that have a chance of staying pure ICE are the GT cars, and they will not be 4.0 liters.
Do you see that price drop and supply excess only for vehicles with the steering wheel on the wrong side or also for LHD? I'd be interested in a Taycan in Germany if the price is right.
Enthusiasts are happy they can afford the cars, rich car flippers and collectors not so much 😂😂😂
I have experienced similar when I bought a humble Cayman 987 in 2008, which I still own, and while I was in the dealer I asked the finance manager what was the price of the then new Panamera and was told "it doesn't matter because you cant afford it". I moved cities and found the local dealer to be the exact opposite, but I certainly still remember the slight some 16 years later.
finally the shit show is ending! major attitude adjustment for Porsche AG and dealers.
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