I also want everyone to keep in mind this question: If a woman or a man cheats on their spouse, is that considered emotional/mental abuse? Opinions will vary on this question. As a Christian woman myself, my answer to this question would be YES! Here's why: Cheating hurts the faithful spouse emotionally by making them feel insecure, depressed, confused, and distrustful. Not to mention, cheating is the most selfish thing someone do to their spouse, because it may cause a separation or divorce, even when the innocent partner truly loves the guilty partner. Doing or saying anything hurtful is abuse, ladies and gentlemen.
And talk is cheap. Very few guys in the world like to voice their feelings, because it's awkward. I think a lot of men try to convey love through being protective and showing affection. If a man really loves you (these are just a few examples), he'll care about your health by cooking for you when you're sick or telling you he's concerned that you're drinking too much or buying you flowers. Mark Gungor made it clear that sex is an ideal way to express love from a man's POV. Relationships often involve a pattern of, "If I do something nice for you, will you do something nice for me?". Like Mark Gungor says in other videos, sex is what men want from women.
I'm glad you have a good boyfriend now. I wish the best for you and your boyfriend. As far as your ex is concerned, it sounds like he had early experiences that, unfortunately, affected his judgement in relationships by making sex more important than an emotional bond. I find that really sad, because he's cheating himself out of a fulfilling romantic relationships.
This is so true. My husband had an affair and I was told by my lawyer not to mention this in the divorce or I would be the loser as the judge would go against me for "retaliation". IN the divorce he got awarded everything and I was told to get out with only what I could live on. I also made more money than him and I paid all the bills. After I left he let the house go into foreclosure because I quit paying the mortgage.
Someone writes a letter with a portion of one side of the story, telling the pastor's advice without a lot of detail. Based on this scanty information, the speaker hear calls the pastor's advice bad.
We have a rule in our home the word love is only allowed to be said from a family member to a child and child like age newborn - let's say 14. We use the actions speak louder then words. Love is to easy to use and say and people think things should be 100% OK after said even known was no heart saying it. I tell my wife I love her so much I hate her every day plus I prove it with heart looking in each others eyes
And if a man has a disgraceful wife , a quarreling wife , a foolish wife ,he can put her away ??????? Woe to the church that condones mass divorce filed by proud rebellious women !
if a man were forging his wife's signature, btw, to get credit cards, that should be enough grounds for some kind of church discipline, but how can you know the whole story from one woman's letter?
The word sorry is thrown around as much as the word love . Its like they have no meaning anymore. And people should say it no matter and then its OK. When it shouldn't be. It should be like show me better then we sit and talk like adults
Submit to one another : - wives to husbands - children to parents - slaves to masters / (employees to bosses) Is it clearer ? Titus 2:4 If women don't learn to submit to their husbands ,the Word of God is maligned .
Biblical basis: the Father is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of the man, the man is the head of the wife.. What now if Christ is not the head of the man?
Someone writes a letter with a portion of one side of the story, telling the pastor's advice without a lot of detail. Based on this scanty information, the speaker hear calls the pastor's advice bad. Lots of bad advice on this video. Advising separation based on such scant information is bad advice. I wouldn't do anything based on this man's advice, especially based on a brief letter when he doesn't know the situation. This irrespnosible. Let not the wie depart from her husband.
That is totally crazy to tell a woman to stay in an abusive situation and endure possible danger for herself or her children. He is talking about EXTREME behavior and putting consequences on it to effect change and reconciliation. The whole cycle of abuse is way different than normal differences. Many women have been killed staying in a dangerous marriage with men who call themselves "Christian". Men are instructed to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. The man is at fault if he is choosing to be abusive and evil toward his wife and/or children.
If a man calls himself a Christian and abuses his wife, he is not a man of God. Abuse originates from jealousy and anger, which are sins that Satan encourages men and women to commit.
If a woman hits her husband, she is disobeying God by not being submissive to her husband. Wishing harm on anyone is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church. If she's not willing to repent of her sin, God will punish her. As for the man, he should consult a priest or pastor and seek advice. Divorce is a big decision, because that means a divorced man or woman will have to abstain for dating or marrying while their ex is still living. Pastors will encourage couples to communicate and tell the abusive partner to repent of their sin and seek the forgiveness of the victimized partner and God's forgiveness. If the abusive woman can't repent of her sin, then she will have a bad reputation with the church for hurting her husband. Women are supposed to be soft, warm, and loving to their husbands. In my opinion, a woman who abuses a loving and faithful husband and willfully chooses not to change should die alone.
Many Christians take the Old Testament (Jewish Torah) and justify divorce and remarriage. However, Jesus said that Christians can remarry if their spouses die. Getting remarried while your spouse is living, even after a divorce, is adultery. Divorce doesn't end the spiritual union between a man and woman, only death ends a spiritual union. God wants husbands and wives to reconcile. Divorce is high in the church, because some people don't heed that difficult truth.
What? How come all these comments are saying that this is all wrong or that they are beating up on men? Submission IS NOT obedience. I am APPALLED by the amount of teaching that says so. Jesus was God. He gave up everything to be with people, in all their faults in brokeness. Paul was not saying that men are Jesus and women are the sinners. He is saying that there is give and take in a marriage. Paul could just have easily written the passage the other way. Submission & leadership are mutual.
Lets find out again how all the worlds problems are the sole fault of the one group who has no rights what so ever all because she had the audacity to think she should have a say instead of having all the blame.
Where is forgiveness ? patience , suffering ? love ? More man bashing from TV trash shows . Who do women think they are today ? Perfect ? Those princesses divorce when men behave bad .. well , what about us sinners who behaved badly but who were not rejected by the Lord Himself ? Are women above God today ?
What kind of teaching is that ???? What does 'bad behaviour' has to do with submission structure in marriage ? What does this man do with the Bible which tells women what to do if their husbands does not obey the word of God ? "Wives ,be submissive to your own husbands so that , if any of them do not believe the word ,they may be WON OVER without words by the behaviour of their wives ,when they see the purity and reverence of your lives ." 1 Peter 3 NO DIVORCE but patience till a soul is won.
I think you are inaccurate about the amount of women filing for divorce being that far more than men. Within my job I have to keep up with divorce records. I guarantee you men are not that far behind women in filing. Also, I have seen plenty of men acting like jerks for the sole purpose of her filing for divorce. They ignore issues in the marriage far longer than women. Then he taunts her to file for divorce. Saying things like "if you don't like it just file for divorce." What does that say?
Why didn't her husband prevent her from yielding to the devil? He was standing with her and never prevented her from committing the sin in the first place. I mean he is supposed to control his stupid weak inferior useless wife right. But he allowed her to yield to the devil.
Who is this guy anyway? I fall in love with him (in healthy way of course) God bless Look at those hot teen girls, they don't seem very happy when they listen the truth...
@brendaraeable listen that is not wisdom is only common sense. If u r a christian u r supposed to think God is good right? so it makes sense to think he wouldn't force us to be hurt. It is for six graders. so, next time u don't know what to do, just think what seems right, its not that hard to notice that we are only humans and your pastor is too, he might not know what he is saying so not everything told in your church is to be follow letter by letter.
Sandrita Murillo , spoken like a true moral relativist. "Do what you think is right"? How can you even know or begin to define it if it changes with the wind and is meaningless? How would you ever know or define that you were wronged by anyone or anything? It will drive you as mad as Nietzsche...
a marriage wont work if both spouses dont submit to one another. though the man is the head if he is going partying sleeping around etc then he isnt submitted to his wife. a man is to love his wife as christ love the church and gave himself for it. that is a form of submission. giving up all for her. otherwise just dont get married!!!
Funny how he talks about the devil coming to a woman ... Eve in Eden ..rings a bell ? Why did she yield to the devil ? because she did not submit to her husband .
Did you get your husbands permission to speak on this page or even get on the internet. Shouldn't you have his approval first and then shouldn't he dictate what you are allowed to say? If you are speaking without your masters approval then you are NOT submitting you your husband.
this show doesnt really help.....its not funny to be around somewone who is emotiionally out of controll. who doesnt care if his constant tantrums create unease among the family... Tantrums hurt .... he wont get help.. and i plus my cats are financially dependent. I lost one cat to this . she was a nervous cat, and looked to me for security. i failed her there. I am ending up as bizarre as he is.............................................................
It doesn't mean they have even the slightest bit of strength. Its a total insult it says that she is stupid and cannot think for herself. That is why Eve sinned anyway right because she was morally weaker than the perfect Adam. She was deceived which makes her weak. As far as the Proverbs 31 woman she may have been praised by men. But when is the last time a man praised or even thanked a woman. Many women desire and want to be simply acknowledged for all the work they do but men ignore it.
"a marriage wont work if both spouses dont submit to one another. " Here we go again with false teachings ! And parents should submit to their children too ? And bosses to their employees ? Where is the church going to ?
They say "I noticed but I just didn't say anything." Did he praise his wife. Look at the way we calculate the sacrifices men make and ignore womens sacrifice simply because it has no monetary qualification. There is hardly a day that goes by a female friend of mine of FB doesn't praise her husband. Saying she is unworthy of him. Yet not once does a man even thank a woman for the sacrifice she made when she choose to submit to him. Submission is saying "you matter the most I don't matter as much.
"he same Ephesians 5 speaks of submission to one another " Here we go again with false teachings ! Divorce is rampant because women are not expected to submit to their husbands anymore. Not because the husband does not 'love his wife'. Headship/submission is a structure and when there is no structure , everything collapses.
"Wives ,be submissive to your own husbands so that , if any of them do not believe the word ,they may be WON OVER without words by the behaviour of their wives ,when they see the purity and reverence of your lives ." 1 Peter 3 We are VERY far from that pastor's teaching ...
I like this guy and agree with a lot of what he's said in his various messages but he misses the mark with some of his "counsel". Evidently he hasn't read 1st Peter 2 & 3:1-2. I totally agree that no woman should ever "submit" to her husband asking her to do something sinful. And she can certainly put down proper boundaries but locking her husband out at 0200 in the morning "to put a stop to it", isn't in the spirit of the submission and the Bible. 1st Peter 2 is clear about who and when to submit to and it's not to just who treats you right. So Mark is just wrong on that point. I was also deeply saddened to see that he advocates "separation". There is NOTHING Biblical about separation. The Bible treats separation and divorce the same. Apart from unconfessed, unrepentant, actual physical adultery or desertion by the Unbeliever, spouses are to "cleave" to one another. Period.
+Tailfeatherz1 "Apart from unconfessed, unrepentant, actual physical adultery or desertion by the Unbeliever, spouses are to "cleave" to one another." - How about him beating her up? Still keep cleaving, period?
+Royce Van Blaricome My husband and I counsel couples as well at our church. It's very easy for functional couples to say "oh, you shouldn't separate, that's not healthy" because you do not know what it is like to suffer victimization by your spouse. Lovingly call 911? Victims don't call 911 out of love, they do that out of fear and the need to survive. There is nothing loving about insisting that a sister in Christ suffer victimization and evil in her own home, just to satisfy churchian rules of conduct. Sometimes, separation is the most "loving" option available.
"True Christians don't live in a spirit of fear and they don't try to survive. They know that they have already died to themselves and that NOTHING can happen to them unless God either causes it or allows it. They know that he who seeks to save his life shall lose it and they know they live by faith." That all sounds very spiritual, brother, however analyze what you're saying in the context of this conversation. Are you saying that a Christian wife should take the battering in grace and in love, and if she fears for her safety, she is no "true Christian"? I mean, really?? That kind of condemning attitude is the reason why many people have left church; the same reason why many who do stay put up with horrible abuses for years and years. The Christian experience is a never-ending balancing act: when to be gracious to a sinner and when to rebuke, when to be quiet and humble and when to contend for righteousness, when to just pray for a need or to actually volunteer and act on it. And Scripture support all of these different approaches. It's not one formula. We can't simply go around saying, "we're supposed to die to ourselves, I've died to myself, I've put up with stuff, why can't you?" like it's a fix-all. In fact if a Christian stubbornly demands the same level of maturity that he has on other believers, than he must not be very mature at all. Paul describes spiritual growth like physical development, starting with infancy and goes all the way to adulthood. There are many who are infants in the faith who have actual physical needs; and often we don't help them even if God gave us the capacity to do so just because we think "you're a Christian, just suck it up or your faith is not good enough!." These verses in James 2:15-17 describe it perfectly: "Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." In this particular case, the wife needs to be saved from physical harm! Tell me, brother, if the wife-beater keeps breaking the "loving conditions", how many times are we going to let him beat her up? Till death do them part? Of course no one wants separation, but my husband and I draw a line at physical abuse. If the husband truly changes and grows in faith, then praise God, they can work out their marriage. But until then we do not agree that she should suffer being his punching bag. We are to die to ourselves, yes; we are to suffer for God, yes. But never EVER are we told in the Bible to make other people suffer for God! Ever! That would be an entirely different religion! It is by far more unloving, in fact it's unChristian, to willfully subject a human being to a life of cruelty and torment, when God has given us the capacity to provide reprieve.
The head of the woman is MAN and the head of man is Christ , ok ? Submission IS obedience to a higher authority .Read the dictionnary ! Wives must submit to their husbands in everything . Never does the Bible say that a man must submit to his wife ! What a disgrace !
He isn't saying women should kick their husbands butts. He just thinks they are primarily responsible for his decisions. If men fail its always a woman fault. Never ever should men be held accountable. If this world doesn't follow Gods way its womens fault. You and him hold only one person accountable women and women alone. You nor he would ever hold men accountable even though God only gave men any rights. He left women without rights.
What is your point. The fact is MEN file for divorce also. They have always had the right to divorce their wives for whatever reason they could make up. Yet you and the bible hold only women at fault not men. He can treat her any way he wants why? Because God created man and then created women. He created women for the sole purpose of pleasing men. Women get jack squat out of this relationship because she is property. She is insignificant and of no real value. She has no say she has no rights.
Also again I say. You are not teaching anyone. You are acting like God gave you authority to discipline and judge and condemn women. Those laws only apply to those who chose to believe in God.
Women file for divorce far more than women. Women are more changing , men tend to be more conservative. If Jesus firmly rebuked the few men who divorced their wives , what could he say to the exceeding number of women divorcing their husbands ? God hates divorce but women seem to like it very much these days...
Leaving women to be sole caretakers of his children. Do you vote? probably not because then you would view yourself as your husbands equal which would not be very submissive. Men divorced women for no real reason and even lied about reasons just to divorce them. Hell it was a Male king who created a religion for the sole purpose of putting away his first wife so he could have a younger wife. Women didn't create divorce. We just don't see why we can get left for no reason and must stay and abused
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@samrayiii I agree, I've been watching paster Mark speek most of the day, love it, I wish I had some of this advise when I went through bad times.
About time we are told the truth! Thanks very much for some real wisdom!!!
I also want everyone to keep in mind this question: If a woman or a man cheats on their spouse, is that considered emotional/mental abuse? Opinions will vary on this question. As a Christian woman myself, my answer to this question would be YES! Here's why: Cheating hurts the faithful spouse emotionally by making them feel insecure, depressed, confused, and distrustful. Not to mention, cheating is the most selfish thing someone do to their spouse, because it may cause a separation or divorce, even when the innocent partner truly loves the guilty partner. Doing or saying anything hurtful is abuse, ladies and gentlemen.
And talk is cheap. Very few guys in the world like to voice their feelings, because it's awkward. I think a lot of men try to convey love through being protective and showing affection. If a man really loves you (these are just a few examples), he'll care about your health by cooking for you when you're sick or telling you he's concerned that you're drinking too much or buying you flowers. Mark Gungor made it clear that sex is an ideal way to express love from a man's POV. Relationships often involve a pattern of, "If I do something nice for you, will you do something nice for me?". Like Mark Gungor says in other videos, sex is what men want from women.
I'm glad you have a good boyfriend now. I wish the best for you and your boyfriend.
As far as your ex is concerned, it sounds like he had early experiences that, unfortunately, affected his judgement in relationships by making sex more important than an emotional bond. I find that really sad, because he's cheating himself out of a fulfilling romantic relationships.
@MrRaydefiore agree. no body should disrespect nobody.
This is so true. My husband had an affair and I was told by my lawyer not to mention this in the divorce or I would be the loser as the judge would go against me for "retaliation". IN the divorce he got awarded everything and I was told to get out with only what I could live on. I also made more money than him and I paid all the bills. After I left he let the house go into foreclosure because I quit paying the mortgage.
Gee.... how does it feel to be the 'man' in this story.
Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
love this! The idea that a submissive and respectful woman is a doormat is complete hooey! That's right, and keep on telling the truth!
Someone writes a letter with a portion of one side of the story, telling the pastor's advice without a lot of detail. Based on this scanty information, the speaker hear calls the pastor's advice bad.
We have a rule in our home the word love is only allowed to be said from a family member to a child and child like age newborn - let's say 14. We use the actions speak louder then words. Love is to easy to use and say and people think things should be 100% OK after said even known was no heart saying it. I tell my wife I love her so much I hate her every day plus I prove it with heart looking in each others eyes
And if a man has a disgraceful wife , a quarreling wife , a foolish wife ,he can put her away ???????
Woe to the church that condones mass divorce filed by proud rebellious women !
if a man were forging his wife's signature, btw, to get credit cards, that should be enough grounds for some kind of church discipline, but how can you know the whole story from one woman's letter?
The word sorry is thrown around as much as the word love . Its like they have no meaning anymore. And people should say it no matter and then its OK. When it shouldn't be. It should be like show me better then we sit and talk like adults
Submit to one another :
- wives to husbands
- children to parents
- slaves to masters / (employees to bosses)
Is it clearer ?
Titus 2:4 If women don't learn to submit to their husbands ,the Word of God is maligned .
hey where can i email mr. gungor?
Opening a credit card in someone's name without their permission is illegal.
Biblical basis: the Father is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of the man, the man is the head of the wife.. What now if Christ is not the head of the man?
Someone writes a letter with a portion of one side of the story, telling the pastor's advice without a lot of detail. Based on this scanty information, the speaker hear calls the pastor's advice bad. Lots of bad advice on this video. Advising separation based on such scant information is bad advice. I wouldn't do anything based on this man's advice, especially based on a brief letter when he doesn't know the situation. This irrespnosible. Let not the wie depart from her husband.
That is totally crazy to tell a woman to stay in an abusive situation and endure possible danger for herself or her children. He is talking about EXTREME behavior and putting consequences on it to effect change and reconciliation. The whole cycle of abuse is way different than normal differences. Many women have been killed staying in a dangerous marriage with men who call themselves "Christian". Men are instructed to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. The man is at fault if he is choosing to be abusive and evil toward his wife and/or children.
If a man calls himself a Christian and abuses his wife, he is not a man of God. Abuse originates from jealousy and anger, which are sins that Satan encourages men and women to commit.
If a woman hits her husband, she is disobeying God by not being submissive to her husband. Wishing harm on anyone is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church. If she's not willing to repent of her sin, God will punish her. As for the man, he should consult a priest or pastor and seek advice. Divorce is a big decision, because that means a divorced man or woman will have to abstain for dating or marrying while their ex is still living. Pastors will encourage couples to communicate and tell the abusive partner to repent of their sin and seek the forgiveness of the victimized partner and God's forgiveness. If the abusive woman can't repent of her sin, then she will have a bad reputation with the church for hurting her husband. Women are supposed to be soft, warm, and loving to their husbands.
In my opinion, a woman who abuses a loving and faithful husband and willfully chooses not to change should die alone.
Many Christians take the Old Testament (Jewish Torah) and justify divorce and remarriage. However, Jesus said that Christians can remarry if their spouses die. Getting remarried while your spouse is living, even after a divorce, is adultery. Divorce doesn't end the spiritual union between a man and woman, only death ends a spiritual union. God wants husbands and wives to reconcile. Divorce is high in the church, because some people don't heed that difficult truth.
30 min of this show isn't enough ... prefer them do it for an hour
What? How come all these comments are saying that this is all wrong or that they are beating up on men? Submission IS NOT obedience. I am APPALLED by the amount of teaching that says so. Jesus was God. He gave up everything to be with people, in all their faults in brokeness. Paul was not saying that men are Jesus and women are the sinners. He is saying that there is give and take in a marriage. Paul could just have easily written the passage the other way. Submission & leadership are mutual.
Lets find out again how all the worlds problems are the sole fault of the one group who has no rights what so ever all because she had the audacity to think she should have a say instead of having all the blame.
Maybe parents should submit to their children then ? Why not try this ? Or isn't it already so in our cursed society of ours ?
Don't worry for me , my husband agrees because I use the Internet to teach younger women (as the Bible says in titus 2:4).
lmao the very new king james version
Where is forgiveness ? patience , suffering ? love ?
More man bashing from TV trash shows . Who do women think they are today ? Perfect ?
Those princesses divorce when men behave bad .. well , what about us sinners who behaved badly but who were not rejected by the Lord Himself ? Are women above God today ?
What kind of teaching is that ????
What does 'bad behaviour' has to do with submission structure in marriage ?
What does this man do with the Bible which tells women what to do if their husbands does not obey the word of God ?
"Wives ,be submissive to your own husbands so that , if any of them do not believe the word ,they may be WON OVER without words by the behaviour of their wives ,when they see the purity and reverence of your lives ."
1 Peter 3
NO DIVORCE but patience till a soul is won.
I think you are inaccurate about the amount of women filing for divorce being that far more than men. Within my job I have to keep up with divorce records. I guarantee you men are not that far behind women in filing. Also, I have seen plenty of men acting like jerks for the sole purpose of her filing for divorce. They ignore issues in the marriage far longer than women. Then he taunts her to file for divorce. Saying things like "if you don't like it just file for divorce." What does that say?
Why didn't her husband prevent her from yielding to the devil? He was standing with her and never prevented her from committing the sin in the first place. I mean he is supposed to control his stupid weak inferior useless wife right. But he allowed her to yield to the devil.
Who is this guy anyway? I fall in love with him (in healthy way of course)
God bless
Look at those hot teen girls, they don't seem very happy when they listen the truth...
@brendaraeable listen that is not wisdom is only common sense. If u r a christian u r supposed to think God is good right? so it makes sense to think he wouldn't force us to be hurt. It is for six graders. so, next time u don't know what to do, just think what seems right, its not that hard to notice that we are only humans and your pastor is too, he might not know what he is saying so not everything told in your church is to be follow letter by letter.
Sandrita Murillo , spoken like a true moral relativist. "Do what you think is right"? How can you even know or begin to define it if it changes with the wind and is meaningless? How would you ever know or define that you were wronged by anyone or anything?
It will drive you as mad as Nietzsche...
a marriage wont work if both spouses dont submit to one another. though the man is the head if he is going partying sleeping around etc then he isnt submitted to his wife. a man is to love his wife as christ love the church and gave himself for it. that is a form of submission. giving up all for her. otherwise just dont get married!!!
Funny how he talks about the devil coming to a woman ... Eve in Eden ..rings a bell ? Why did she yield to the devil ? because she did not submit to her husband .
Did you get your husbands permission to speak on this page or even get on the internet. Shouldn't you have his approval first and then shouldn't he dictate what you are allowed to say? If you are speaking without your masters approval then you are NOT submitting you your husband.
is she a well adjusted adult or is she traumatized? i'm sorry, its the truth...
this show doesnt really help.....its not funny to be around somewone who is emotiionally out of controll. who doesnt care if his constant tantrums create unease among the family... Tantrums hurt .... he wont get help.. and i plus my cats are financially dependent. I lost one cat to this . she was a nervous cat, and looked to me for security. i failed her there. I am ending up as bizarre as he is.............................................................
It doesn't mean they have even the slightest bit of strength. Its a total insult it says that she is stupid and cannot think for herself. That is why Eve sinned anyway right because she was morally weaker than the perfect Adam. She was deceived which makes her weak. As far as the Proverbs 31 woman she may have been praised by men. But when is the last time a man praised or even thanked a woman. Many women desire and want to be simply acknowledged for all the work they do but men ignore it.
"a marriage wont work if both spouses dont submit to one another. "
Here we go again with false teachings ! And parents should submit to their children too ? And bosses to their employees ?
Where is the church going to ?
And everybody applauses to that . What a disgrace !
They say "I noticed but I just didn't say anything." Did he praise his wife. Look at the way we calculate the sacrifices men make and ignore womens sacrifice simply because it has no monetary qualification. There is hardly a day that goes by a female friend of mine of FB doesn't praise her husband. Saying she is unworthy of him. Yet not once does a man even thank a woman for the sacrifice she made when she choose to submit to him. Submission is saying "you matter the most I don't matter as much.
"he same Ephesians 5 speaks of submission to one another "
Here we go again with false teachings !
Divorce is rampant because women are not expected to submit to their husbands anymore. Not because the husband does not 'love his wife'. Headship/submission is a structure and when there is no structure , everything collapses.
Pastor Mark Gungor YOU use the name of Lord in vain -.-
"Wives ,be submissive to your own husbands so that , if any of them do not believe the word ,they may be WON OVER without words by the behaviour of their wives ,when they see the purity and reverence of your lives ."
1 Peter 3
We are VERY far from that pastor's teaching ...
I like this guy and agree with a lot of what he's said in his various messages but he misses the mark with some of his "counsel". Evidently he hasn't read 1st Peter 2 & 3:1-2. I totally agree that no woman should ever "submit" to her husband asking her to do something sinful. And she can certainly put down proper boundaries but locking her husband out at 0200 in the morning "to put a stop to it", isn't in the spirit of the submission and the Bible. 1st Peter 2 is clear about who and when to submit to and it's not to just who treats you right. So Mark is just wrong on that point. I was also deeply saddened to see that he advocates "separation". There is NOTHING Biblical about separation. The Bible treats separation and divorce the same. Apart from unconfessed, unrepentant, actual physical adultery or desertion by the Unbeliever, spouses are to "cleave" to one another. Period.
+Tailfeatherz1 "Apart from unconfessed, unrepentant, actual physical adultery or desertion by the Unbeliever, spouses are to "cleave" to one another." - How about him beating her up? Still keep cleaving, period?
+Royce Van Blaricome My husband and I counsel couples as well at our church. It's very easy for functional couples to say "oh, you shouldn't separate, that's not healthy" because you do not know what it is like to suffer victimization by your spouse. Lovingly call 911? Victims don't call 911 out of love, they do that out of fear and the need to survive. There is nothing loving about insisting that a sister in Christ suffer victimization and evil in her own home, just to satisfy churchian rules of conduct. Sometimes, separation is the most "loving" option available.
"True Christians don't live in a spirit of fear and they don't try to survive. They know that they have already died to themselves and that NOTHING can happen to them unless God either causes it or allows it. They know that he who seeks to save his life shall lose it and they know they live by faith."
That all sounds very spiritual, brother, however analyze what you're saying in the context of this conversation. Are you saying that a Christian wife should take the battering in grace and in love, and if she fears for her safety, she is no "true Christian"? I mean,
really?? That kind of condemning attitude is the reason why many people have left church; the same reason why many who do stay put up with horrible abuses for years and years.
The Christian experience is a never-ending balancing act: when to be gracious to a sinner and when to rebuke, when to be quiet and humble and when to contend for righteousness, when to just pray for a need or to actually volunteer and act on it. And Scripture support all of these different approaches. It's not one formula. We can't simply go around saying, "we're supposed to die to ourselves, I've died to myself, I've put up with stuff, why can't you?" like it's a fix-all. In fact if a Christian stubbornly demands the same level of maturity that he has on other believers, than he must not be very mature at all. Paul describes spiritual growth like physical development, starting with infancy and goes all the way to adulthood. There are many who are infants in the faith who have actual physical needs; and often we don't help them even if God gave us the capacity to do so just because we think "you're a Christian, just suck it up or your faith is not good enough!."
These verses in James 2:15-17 describe it perfectly: "Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
In this particular case, the wife needs to be saved from physical harm!
Tell me, brother, if the wife-beater keeps breaking the "loving conditions", how many times are we going to let him beat her up? Till death do them part?
Of course no one wants separation, but my husband and I draw a line at physical abuse. If the husband truly changes and grows in faith, then praise God, they can work out their marriage. But until then we do not agree that she should suffer being his punching bag. We are to die to ourselves, yes; we are to suffer for God, yes. But never EVER are we told in the Bible to make other people suffer for God! Ever! That would be an entirely different religion! It is by far more unloving, in fact it's unChristian, to willfully subject a human being to a life of cruelty and torment, when God has given us the capacity to provide reprieve.
The head of the woman is MAN and the head of man is Christ , ok ?
Submission IS obedience to a higher authority .Read the dictionnary !
Wives must submit to their husbands in everything . Never does the Bible say that a man must submit to his wife ! What a disgrace !
He isn't saying women should kick their husbands butts. He just thinks they are primarily responsible for his decisions. If men fail its always a woman fault. Never ever should men be held accountable. If this world doesn't follow Gods way its womens fault. You and him hold only one person accountable women and women alone. You nor he would ever hold men accountable even though God only gave men any rights. He left women without rights.
What is your point. The fact is MEN file for divorce also. They have always had the right to divorce their wives for whatever reason they could make up. Yet you and the bible hold only women at fault not men. He can treat her any way he wants why? Because God created man and then created women. He created women for the sole purpose of pleasing men. Women get jack squat out of this relationship because she is property. She is insignificant and of no real value. She has no say she has no rights.
Also again I say. You are not teaching anyone. You are acting like God gave you authority to discipline and judge and condemn women. Those laws only apply to those who chose to believe in God.
Women file for divorce far more than women. Women are more changing , men tend to be more conservative. If Jesus firmly rebuked the few men who divorced their wives , what could he say to the exceeding number of women divorcing their husbands ? God hates divorce but women seem to like it very much these days...
Leaving women to be sole caretakers of his children. Do you vote? probably not because then you would view yourself as your husbands equal which would not be very submissive. Men divorced women for no real reason and even lied about reasons just to divorce them. Hell it was a Male king who created a religion for the sole purpose of putting away his first wife so he could have a younger wife. Women didn't create divorce. We just don't see why we can get left for no reason and must stay and abused