Glad you guys are actually "playing" the music. Love the Fortes. Should have called out the switching from 3 to 4 so the viewers would know what was playing.
Thanks James! We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I am SO glad Paul was able to impart a lot of his philosophy and knowledge to Roy. There are tons of good engineers out there designing good quality speakers, but it's the emphasis PWK put on what he considered important that first gave Klipsch it's sound. Thank goodness Roy is able to continue what Paul began. I hope he has a number of apprentice engineers that he's also mentoring to continue to the legacy into the next generation. I can definitely hear a clear difference between the speakers, even over TH-cam.
We have met Roy on several occasions not only in video creation, but on a personal level as well. Roy is a great guy and very humble. He shares his knowledge with all of those around him and never forgets to pay credit to Paul every chance he gets. Paul's legacy is for sure in good hands!
Thanks for the video. I'd be interested to hear a comparison after a few months once the IV's break in some. I just purchased the Heritage Forte IV's last Friday 2/5/21 and have been happily listening to them everyday since. This is my first pair of Klipsch speakers so I don't have a III vs. IV comparison for anyone. I owned Duevel speakers prior to the Forte. However, I did demo the III's and they really impressed me. My set-up is an Audio Research VSi60 tube amp paired with an Audio Research PH6 phono preamp and a Michell TecnoDec turntable. I listen to mostly vinyl. After set-up and positioning, the speakers immediately jumped out at me with an increase to my sound stage (18ft X 16ft room). They produce an inspiring live music quality and have superb sonic versatility. It's fun to own speakers that will play any genre of music and not lack in performance. Thus far, that's got me very excited because I truly enjoy a wide range of music. Overall, I'm very pleased and feel these are a solid choice especially when you start comparing speaker quality vs. price. I now understand why the Forte's receive such praise in high fidelity world.
Awesome and good idea! We may have to consider the few months in compare for a future episode. Congrats on your new speakers. Happy to hear you are enjoying them and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the comment! We would love to hear more about your personal experience with these. Please comment below and let us know how it's going for you so far! What's your favorite recording to listen to on these?
Thank you for the feedback! We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Thank you for creating these comparison videos. A couple of suggestions: I wish the differences you heard were explained more instead of just generically saying "there is a difference". What are the differences? For example, bass response. You said that the crossover changes made a big difference in the bass, but you didn't explain what the differences are or even which speakers bass response you prefer. Deeper? Punchier? More real? Etc. It would be nice if you could show on the screen which speaker is playing when you switch between the two speakers. You can look at your remote button presses to determine this in post-production. Otherwise we just end up watching you two listen to music for a long time and there is no way for us to judge for ourselves.
...it was hard to put into words...much of that landed on the cutting room floor. The bass was not depper, just blended better. The crossover point between the woofer and mid was "cleaner". The mids were more smooth.
We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I couldn’t honestly say which of these I would prefer in person but it is clear to hear, even via TH-cam that they do sound quite different from each other. Assuming levels are matched then it appears that one of them is definitely more up front sounding. When the switch came it was as if calmness had prevailed with a softer & perhaps a little more distant sounding character. Personally I think I would prefer the latter, less hectic presentation. I don’t know if I missed something but I still don’t actually know which was which.😅 Would be surprised if others didn’t find it quite easy to spot the change in sound character here too & I’m perhaps a little surprised these guys appeared to think they sounded quite similar. Best.
Very interesting. I airplayed to my Cornwalls (because let’s be honest an iPhone is not a speaker). And you could hear a distinct difference between the two. Not sure which was which. But one sounded just a wee bit cleaner.
Happy to hear you enjoyed the video. We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Aside from obvious new technical advances, it would be interesting to hear how the engineers work at getting that crossover balance that seems to improve with each new generation. One suggestion? It would be nice to have the second camera on the speakers you’re comparing or auditioning to edit in so we can see them occasionally, not that you guys aren’t fun to look at!
We actually had the shot of behind the heads recorded but, the backs of our heads are a bit funny looking and it didn't end up making the final cut. As for which is which though, we didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
@@TopShelfAudio I get that, but the TH-cam compression factor makes bias listening pretty moot anyway. If you can barely tell the subtle differences listening in person there’s little chance we can hear them over TH-cam. I actually put more value in and enjoy the observations, commentary, and knowledge of Trey and Jason. I just thought going forward when you do these A/B listening tests it would be nice for some cut-ins of the speakers themselves...and with the grills off, which you do very well in your history videos. Klipsch, especially the Heritage and Legend lines, are not only great sounding, aesthetically, there beautiful to look at.
Call me crazy, but before I saw the time stamps i was sure the "improved" iteration forte 4 was actually the 3 when I checked back. To me the 4s sound like they have a more neutral voicing, but are congested and shrill sounding, and less dynamic than the 3. The upper midrange and highs sound boosted to obnoxious levels. In comparison the 3s sound like they have better depth, better dynamics, more pleasing voicing, an all around better speaker by a mile. I have never heard either of these speakers in person, but i would hesitate to buy the 4s after hearing this comparison.
That's the problem with comparison videos, and the multitude of whatever random playback devices that people use. The 4's are actually way better. Whether that comes across in a recording is a different story. The 3's had a budget constraint on the crossover and the upper bass isn't all that great due to that, according to Roy the designer. Also somewhere around 3-5 khz is just pretty uncomfortable and bright. I'm sure that sounds more lively on a recording but in a more serious halfway treated listening room with good gear, in person, it does not. -- Cory
@@TopShelfAudio That's what I understood from you here in the video, but what does you're partner think? His silence seemed to tell bit of a different story. Not calling you a liar, I just understand tastes are subjective, and it's your job to sell these things.
@@hurkamur1 I stand by my statement. Of course it depends on the recording as well. That uncomfortable upper frequency section is also exasperated by a poorly treated room, and Jason's room is actually wallpapered with panels due to being his studio so it may not be nearly as bad there. Regardless, the Forte 4's are far from shrill and if that is coming off in the videos then I don't know what to say, there's just too many variables, but they are far from it especially when compared to the 3's. I'm going to have to start doing some follow up videos myself and show actual measurements, and how that may translate to what you hear in a recording, possibly include some specific examples. -- Cory
It would be nice to know which speaker we are listening to when you switch them. I heard one that I liked better than the other, but I'm not sure which one I was hearing at that tume.
one seemed brighter...on some tracks....but vocals sounded better on the other without the tweeter being too sharp. Though am sure they sound completely different in person as what we hear is only as good as mic/pickup used to record.
I would say that's pretty accurate. very much doubt there would be any level of disappointment whichever set is purchased. To get the best experience, stop in at your local showroom to listen in person. They are for sure with the trip!
The IV’s are brighter and thinner sounding. I think they made some poor choices - they gave up some of the warmth and dynamics of the III’s to squeeze out some transparency. The result is a brittle sounding speaker that gets bright and doesn’t blend as well with subs. Whereas the III is a sledgehammer to the chest with warmth and dynamics that practically swallow you up - literally one of the best speakers I’ve ever heard. Really a shame. The guys made a great video and were trying to be generous but this is my honest opinion.
I’m glad that you are doing these Klipsch rounds. I have a few suggestions, One, have the commentary before or after each music track, but not during because it’s distracting trying to hear you and listen for the overall character of the speakers. Two, point the camera down toward the speakers, which is the main focus of the video and not at yourselves during music playback, because the speakers are the main focus. Three, You can do cut away scenes on your expressions while listening, but again the main focus should be the speakers and music. Your personalities, enthusiasm are great and you play off of each other well. The reason I mentioned these points are, it’s like someone is talking to you while you are at the movies or your wife is trying to talk to you during a music listening session.
Thanks for watching and for the suggestions. Some of the points we make are specific to the parts of the track or to that moment in time while listening. Happy to hear you are enjoying the content outside of our interruptions, though!
I'd try to get the RC-64III if possible. Still not a perfect match but it's the best we've got if you need a horizontal center channel. At least it has an actual pretty beefy compression driver that can keep up on the highs. The Reference Premier centers are cheaper tweeters bolted to a horn, Klipsch does get compression with certain tricks like phase plugs and ribs on the throat when they do this, so technically they can still call those a compression driver, but still. Not the same.
Thank! We hear your and other feedback and, due to the responses, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I'd say the Cornwalls win, if nothing else they are more appropriate in a baffle wall scenario or at least up against a wall behind a screen. Fortes still need some space behind them. A few people have done LCR trios with Fortes under a TV but it's not common.
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes. In future videos going forward from here, we've started out with no overlay on the first few tracks and bring in the overlay halfway through to combat this bias, but also to show the reveal per viewer requests. Hope this helps going forward :)
surprised by how differently these appear to be voiced. obviously the details are lost through the video's recording and youtube, but the iv's sound much more midrange-y, where as the iii's sound more scooped. hmm
Thanks for watching Charles! We were surprised as well. While the III is awesome, the new version seems to have moved it's its way forward, more resembling the sonic signature of the other speakers in the Heritage line.
@@zenonbeograd I wouldn't say that, the 4's are more comfortable with rock music at higher volumes especially in an untreated room, plus Roy was able to spend more money on the crossovers on the 4's which made the bass better, more punchy, more attack-y for a lack of a better word at the moment. These are all things you want for rock music at higher volumes.
Speaker transition times are listed in the description. We've modified our format a few times since this one release. At first, we left this out to remove bias/saying one is better because its the higher priced unit... but with requests going further, we added in when speaker we were listening to at the halfway point in later videos. (first half without and second half with showing which unit is playing)...in season two though/going forward...weve started including this throughout. -Jason
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I'm assuming the thinner sounding Forte is the III? It's a huge difference actually. Very noticeable immediately. Too bad you didn't let us know which one was playing during switching. Kinda defeats the purpose of the video if you don't know which one your hearing at the time. Great video nonetheless!
Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I was wrong the 3s have more presence as the 4s sound distant. I prefer the 3s. Now ofc I'm not in that room so everything would more than likely sound different. Interesting
Just A/B’d the IV’s and III’s. IV’s are more detailed, but at the cost of fullness and depth. My feeling is you lose a good bit of the emotional engagement in the IV’s. IV’s are more shrill - the get louder but it starts to sizzle your ears at higher volumes. Whereas the III, as you make it louder, the sound just gets bigger and bigger and swallows you up with warmth and dynamics and blends brilliantly with subwoofers. The steeper slope in the crossover despite being “better” removes the pleasing heft you get from the woofer reproducing some of the same frequencies as the midrange. The result is a thinner sounding speaker. It’s a shame TBH - once in a while Klipsch gives into to the audiophile snobs and I don’t think the outcomes are generally good. Detail Power Emotion - the IV’s are tilted to heavily towards detail and power, not emotion.
Both the IV and the III are available in black ash, distressed oak, natural cherry and American walnut. In this video, we used Distressed oak for the IIIs and the walnut for the IVs.
@@treycannon2275 Thank you for clarifying. Also your comment regarding closeness of sound signature was a key point. I struggled with understanding if I were to make a mistake in buying a used Forte iii vs the new iv and I feel more confident that the Forte III is still very relevant. I have the small Klipsch RP600 and am handwringing between buying the new Heresy iv versus a used Forte III . I suspect both would be excellent choices but my sense is that the Forte just digs deeper. From what I read, the Heresy tweeter horn and mid range horn are identical to the Cornwall. So as I see it, the sound signature of the Legacy line is very similar, but you are buying (increasingly) deeper bass with each iteration From Heresy to Cornwall (LaScala). Am I correct? Thank you for your thoughts.
@@jeffreypicciolo7706 ....The Cornwall IV has a MUCH different horn than the Heresy IV. ( the III had the same as the cornwall III) I like a 2.1 system...so the H IV would work just fine for me...if you only want a 2.0 system, Forte all day...III or IV. As for deeper bass...kind of. The LF and the mix of the LF to the MID are where the balance of the speaker start. The woofer is the quietest part. It sets the stage in sensitivity and LF extension. Once you get the woofer / cabinet tuning working, you start to add in the rest of the parts. With the La Scala you have a much different beast. The woofer is now loading into the air through a transformer and thus the transition is done so much more easily. That is where the extra output comes from...but as with anything, you don't get something for nothing. The horn has limits in its control and low frequency cutoff. The same woofer in a Cornwall can get down to 38Hz. Where in the LS it rolls off hard at 50Hz...but has double the output. So with the bass reflex cabinets, you are right to a point.
We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Forte 4 More clarity more detail more air a little bit more in your face the other speaker sounds more muddy more further away everything compress together with like almost like a sheet over the voices I would go with the new one
How do you know it's forte 4? We can't see which is which. Maybe forte 3 have more clarity in midrange because of titanium driver. We need to wait another reviews.
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
True - the IV is a little clearer, but at the expense of sounding harsh and shredding your eardrums in the midrange. The midrange actually sounds a little disjointed from the rest of the speaker. Whereas the III Sounds big and full and engaging, and better and bigger as you turn it up, without shredding your ears.
@@TopShelfAudio haha I didn't mean what they sound like in the video. Heard them both live. But fwiw: I do think that even in the video, the mids, while not as (ahem) 'refined' as on the fours are plainly more dynamic and engaging. These are expensive speakers, and I guess I expect to be moved by more than what the latest 'refined' crossover delivers. But as you say, can't go wrong either way.
@@I-Libertine I heard them both in person as well. The III’s are definitely a more engaging speaker. The IV’s have a brittle sound and get harsh as they get louder. I don’t know what they were thinking.
@@I-Libertine I think they were trying to align the Sonic signature of the IV’s to the rest of the heritage line. They should have done the opposite and aligned the rest of the heritage line to the Sonic signature of the III’s.
To my ears either the version 3 or the version 4 virtually sound the exact same Because when your processing the sound for more extended and deeper Bass softer mid-range is in softer hand tweet...😅 In all virtually depends on how your processing and what your ears hear. And when it comes down to the cost search out the least expensive of the two. If you're lucky enough to find a pair of the f o r t e version 3.😅 New in the box never used by anybody for any reason and not refurbished what would be referred to as full warranty grade A speakers... That should be your choice.. bought two pair of the V3.. it's an upgrade to my klf 30 Two pair of those as well and they're still present in the basement pounding the concrete all day long. When it comes to the heritage series of Klipsch speakers.. it can truly be said that the forte IS THE ABSOLUTE SWEET SPOT OF THE HERITAGE SERIES SPEAKERS.. YOU WANT TO HEAR AN ALBUM THROUGH THE KLIPSCH 4K SERIES THAT WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT THE SPEAKERS ARE CAPABLE OF?? FIND A COPY OF JOE WALSH'S JAMES GANG RIDES AGAIN,""😅 TITLED ALBUM AND PLAY A LITTLE TUNE CALLED ," WOMAN"AND THEN FEED THE BEAST WHAT'S AN AMPLIFIER.. AND YOU WILL KNOW AND SMILE...
I guess this is what happens when you audition speakers over TH-cam. The 3's are nothing like the 4's. The 3's are significantly brighter and harsher plus the upper punchy bass just isn't the same. Biggest problem was that they were trying to hit a certain budget with the crossover. They did update the squawker driver and tweeter horn to smooth things out but the crossover now is like twice as complex and it's extremely easy to hear the difference. At some point at least spring for the Forte 3 to 4 upgrade kit and thank me later. -- Cory
@@TopShelfAudio I understand exactly what you're saying but here's the thing in today's economy it's all about the money... I'm just obtained two pair of the version 3 new in the box never used produced inbox by clips about 6 months before the version 4 was released .. and I got those two complete pair new in the box we're less than 3,800 delivered.. it's kind of like buying one pair get the second pair free that'll never happen with the version 4.. and anyone will have a very hard time finding the version 3 new in the box.. people are keeping their versions 3 because they love them More version 4 are being sold used then the version 3 ever had.. go to wonder why that is.. version 3 is very hard to find.. version 4 is ubiquitously everywhere. And everyone is asking the same price for them no matter what.. either 5,400 new shipt..3800 used.. no one is asking less Got to wonder why everybody wants to sell their used forte fours.. but not their used for a 3.. a legitimate answer is necessary thanks
@@LggemLggem one of my biggest sellers is actually the Forte 3 to 4 upgrade kit. Nobody's dumping them at the rate that you claim. If anything they're rushing to upgrade their 3's to the 4 more than anything.
Glad you guys are actually "playing" the music. Love the Fortes. Should have called out the switching from 3 to 4 so the viewers would know what was playing.
We didn't want to bias the switch...and many times we couldn't tell the difference. Other times it stood out.
A was the left switch...= III B = IV
Thanks James! We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I’m looking forward to the showdown between the Cornwalls and the Forte video!
Thanks Paul. We are looking forward to it as well. Coming soon!!
@@TopShelfAudio yes Cornwall IV vs forte IV sound test comparison to see which one sounds better would be awesome .
Just got the IVs from you guys. Can't wait to get 'em next week
Awesome! You're going to love them!
I am SO glad Paul was able to impart a lot of his philosophy and knowledge to Roy. There are tons of good engineers out there designing good quality speakers, but it's the emphasis PWK put on what he considered important that first gave Klipsch it's sound. Thank goodness Roy is able to continue what Paul began. I hope he has a number of apprentice engineers that he's also mentoring to continue to the legacy into the next generation.
I can definitely hear a clear difference between the speakers, even over TH-cam.
We have met Roy on several occasions not only in video creation, but on a personal level as well. Roy is a great guy and very humble. He shares his knowledge with all of those around him and never forgets to pay credit to Paul every chance he gets. Paul's legacy is for sure in good hands!
Thanks for the video. I'd be interested to hear a comparison after a few months once the IV's break in some. I just purchased the Heritage Forte IV's last Friday 2/5/21 and have been happily listening to them everyday since. This is my first pair of Klipsch speakers so I don't have a III vs. IV comparison for anyone. I owned Duevel speakers prior to the Forte. However, I did demo the III's and they really impressed me. My set-up is an Audio Research VSi60 tube amp paired with an Audio Research PH6 phono preamp and a Michell TecnoDec turntable. I listen to mostly vinyl. After set-up and positioning, the speakers immediately jumped out at me with an increase to my sound stage (18ft X 16ft room). They produce an inspiring live music quality and have superb sonic versatility. It's fun to own speakers that will play any genre of music and not lack in performance. Thus far, that's got me very excited because I truly enjoy a wide range of music. Overall, I'm very pleased and feel these are a solid choice especially when you start comparing speaker quality vs. price. I now understand why the Forte's receive such praise in high fidelity world.
Awesome and good idea! We may have to consider the few months in compare for a future episode. Congrats on your new speakers. Happy to hear you are enjoying them and thanks for watching!
The Forte IV is my fav speaker with the updates to tweeter, mid and cover.
Thanks for the comment! We would love to hear more about your personal experience with these. Please comment below and let us know how it's going for you so far! What's your favorite recording to listen to on these?
Would’ve liked a bit more on which speaker was actually playing at the tome
Thank you for the feedback! We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
@@TopShelfAudio👍👍👍
Thank you for creating these comparison videos. A couple of suggestions:
I wish the differences you heard were explained more instead of just generically saying "there is a difference". What are the differences? For example, bass response. You said that the crossover changes made a big difference in the bass, but you didn't explain what the differences are or even which speakers bass response you prefer. Deeper? Punchier? More real? Etc.
It would be nice if you could show on the screen which speaker is playing when you switch between the two speakers. You can look at your remote button presses to determine this in post-production. Otherwise we just end up watching you two listen to music for a long time and there is no way for us to judge for ourselves.
...it was hard to put into words...much of that landed on the cutting room floor. The bass was not depper, just blended better. The crossover point between the woofer and mid was "cleaner". The mids were more smooth.
We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I couldn’t honestly say which of these I would prefer in person but it is clear to hear, even via TH-cam that they do sound quite different from each other. Assuming levels are matched then it appears that one of them is definitely more up front sounding. When the switch came it was as if calmness had prevailed with a softer & perhaps a little more distant sounding character. Personally I think I would prefer the latter, less hectic presentation.
I don’t know if I missed something but I still don’t actually know which was which.😅
Would be surprised if others didn’t find it quite easy to spot the change in sound character here too & I’m perhaps a little surprised these guys appeared to think they sounded quite similar.
Best.
Very interesting. I airplayed to my Cornwalls (because let’s be honest an iPhone is not a speaker). And you could hear a distinct difference between the two. Not sure which was which. But one sounded just a wee bit cleaner.
Happy to hear you enjoyed the video. We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Nice video. It would be great know which model was playing. Thanks
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
@@TopShelfAudio excellent, thanks
Aside from obvious new technical advances, it would be interesting to hear how the engineers work at getting that crossover balance that seems to improve with each new generation.
One suggestion? It would be nice to have the second camera on the speakers you’re comparing or auditioning to edit in so we can see them occasionally, not that you guys aren’t fun to look at!
We actually had the shot of behind the heads recorded but, the backs of our heads are a bit funny looking and it didn't end up making the final cut. As for which is which though, we didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
@@TopShelfAudio
I get that, but the TH-cam compression factor makes bias listening pretty moot anyway. If you can barely tell the subtle differences listening in person there’s little chance we can hear them over TH-cam. I actually put more value in and enjoy the observations, commentary, and knowledge of Trey and Jason. I just thought going forward when you do these A/B listening tests it would be nice for some cut-ins of the speakers themselves...and with the grills off, which you do very well in your history videos.
Klipsch, especially the Heritage and Legend lines, are not only great sounding, aesthetically, there beautiful to look at.
Thanks for the feedback! Cornwall VS Forte is on its way. We will see what we can do about adding some other shots into the mix. :)
@@TopShelfAudio Great! Looking forward to it. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Call me crazy, but before I saw the time stamps i was sure the "improved" iteration forte 4 was actually the 3 when I checked back. To me the 4s sound like they have a more neutral voicing, but are congested and shrill sounding, and less dynamic than the 3. The upper midrange and highs sound boosted to obnoxious levels. In comparison the 3s sound like they have better depth, better dynamics, more pleasing voicing, an all around better speaker by a mile. I have never heard either of these speakers in person, but i would hesitate to buy the 4s after hearing this comparison.
That's the problem with comparison videos, and the multitude of whatever random playback devices that people use. The 4's are actually way better. Whether that comes across in a recording is a different story. The 3's had a budget constraint on the crossover and the upper bass isn't all that great due to that, according to Roy the designer. Also somewhere around 3-5 khz is just pretty uncomfortable and bright. I'm sure that sounds more lively on a recording but in a more serious halfway treated listening room with good gear, in person, it does not. -- Cory
@@TopShelfAudio That's what I understood from you here in the video, but what does you're partner think? His silence seemed to tell bit of a different story. Not calling you a liar, I just understand tastes are subjective, and it's your job to sell these things.
@@hurkamur1 I stand by my statement. Of course it depends on the recording as well. That uncomfortable upper frequency section is also exasperated by a poorly treated room, and Jason's room is actually wallpapered with panels due to being his studio so it may not be nearly as bad there. Regardless, the Forte 4's are far from shrill and if that is coming off in the videos then I don't know what to say, there's just too many variables, but they are far from it especially when compared to the 3's. I'm going to have to start doing some follow up videos myself and show actual measurements, and how that may translate to what you hear in a recording, possibly include some specific examples. -- Cory
@@TopShelfAudio That would be awesome. Thanks for the response.
Nailed it.
It would be nice to know which speaker we are listening to when you switch them. I heard one that I liked better than the other, but I'm not sure which one I was hearing at that tume.
we started labeling them. in the description you can see which ones are playing at which time.
one seemed brighter...on some tracks....but vocals sounded better on the other without the tweeter being too sharp. Though am sure they sound completely different in person as what we hear is only as good as mic/pickup used to record.
I would say that's pretty accurate. very much doubt there would be any level of disappointment whichever set is purchased. To get the best experience, stop in at your local showroom to listen in person. They are for sure with the trip!
The IV’s are brighter and thinner sounding. I think they made some poor choices - they gave up some of the warmth and dynamics of the III’s to squeeze out some transparency. The result is a brittle sounding speaker that gets bright and doesn’t blend as well with subs. Whereas the III is a sledgehammer to the chest with warmth and dynamics that practically swallow you up - literally one of the best speakers I’ve ever heard. Really a shame. The guys made a great video and were trying to be generous but this is my honest opinion.
I’m glad that you are doing these Klipsch rounds. I have a few suggestions, One, have the commentary before or after each music track, but not during because it’s distracting trying to hear you and listen for the overall character of the speakers. Two, point the camera down toward the speakers, which is the main focus of the video and not at yourselves during music playback, because the speakers are the main focus. Three, You can do cut away scenes on your expressions while listening, but again the main focus should be the speakers and music. Your personalities, enthusiasm are great and you play off of each other well. The reason I mentioned these points are, it’s like someone is talking to you while you are at the movies or your wife is trying to talk to you during a music listening session.
Thanks for watching and for the suggestions. Some of the points we make are specific to the parts of the track or to that moment in time while listening. Happy to hear you are enjoying the content outside of our interruptions, though!
Would a RP-450c match well with the fortes for home theater viewing?
I'd try to get the RC-64III if possible. Still not a perfect match but it's the best we've got if you need a horizontal center channel. At least it has an actual pretty beefy compression driver that can keep up on the highs. The Reference Premier centers are cheaper tweeters bolted to a horn, Klipsch does get compression with certain tricks like phase plugs and ribs on the throat when they do this, so technically they can still call those a compression driver, but still. Not the same.
@@TopShelfAudio thank you!
Can you use the RC 64-3s with the IV's for home theater 🎥 🤔
...you could, however, the tone will be different. It wouldn't be a bad match...just not the same as a 3rd IV.
This question will also be covered more in depth in a future Q&A episode. Stay Tuned!
Love the video guys, great job. As has been said, I just wish I knew which was playing; the 3 or the 4.
Thank! We hear your and other feedback and, due to the responses, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Have you guys reviewed forty 2 ever
Not sure what this means.
Cornwall 4 vs forte 4. Which one is best for front LCR soundstage in home theater setup?
I'd say the Cornwalls win, if nothing else they are more appropriate in a baffle wall scenario or at least up against a wall behind a screen. Fortes still need some space behind them. A few people have done LCR trios with Fortes under a TV but it's not common.
Come on guys, face the camera to the speakers and tell us which pair are playing and when.
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.
In future videos going forward from here, we've started out with no overlay on the first few tracks and bring in the overlay halfway through to combat this bias, but also to show the reveal per viewer requests. Hope this helps going forward :)
surprised by how differently these appear to be voiced. obviously the details are lost through the video's recording and youtube, but the iv's sound much more midrange-y, where as the iii's sound more scooped. hmm
I like iii's more, because I like scooped sound. I think that iii's are more for rock, metal and iv's for vocals.
Thanks for watching Charles! We were surprised as well. While the III is awesome, the new version seems to have moved it's its way forward, more resembling the sonic signature of the other speakers in the Heritage line.
@@zenonbeograd I wouldn't say that, the 4's are more comfortable with rock music at higher volumes especially in an untreated room, plus Roy was able to spend more money on the crossovers on the 4's which made the bass better, more punchy, more attack-y for a lack of a better word at the moment. These are all things you want for rock music at higher volumes.
I have to guess at which speaker you are playing
Speaker transition times are listed in the description. We've modified our format a few times since this one release. At first, we left this out to remove bias/saying one is better because its the higher priced unit... but with requests going further, we added in when speaker we were listening to at the halfway point in later videos. (first half without and second half with showing which unit is playing)...in season two though/going forward...weve started including this throughout.
-Jason
On the second song, one of the speakers' mids had more of a "scoop". Which one was it?
A = III B = IV
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
Thanks! Does it count I was listening through Klipsch headphones? 😁
Thanks for making the video. Interesting and informative!
Ask Victor Wooten and Stanley Clarke if you can jam there tunes without violation.
...I did ask a few artist that all will know. Nothing back from them yet.
We hope to add more tracks to the list as time progresses but, we must acquire permission from each artist before live streaming. Stay tuned. :)
My listening room is more reverberant. So IV would be better for me - just a guess -.
4's are much more comfortable in a reflective room for sure.
I'm assuming the thinner sounding Forte is the III? It's a huge difference actually. Very noticeable immediately. Too bad you didn't let us know which one was playing during switching. Kinda defeats the purpose of the video if you don't know which one your hearing at the time. Great video nonetheless!
We didn't want to bias the switch...and many times we couldn't tell the difference. Other times it stood out.
A was the left switch...= III B = IV
Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
I was wrong the 3s have more presence as the 4s sound distant. I prefer the 3s. Now ofc I'm not in that room so everything would more than likely sound different. Interesting
@@chadhunter8757 I wonder if some of the “bad sound” they removed from the IV actually makes the III sound more present and engaging.
Just A/B’d the IV’s and III’s. IV’s are more detailed, but at the cost of fullness and depth. My feeling is you lose a good bit of the emotional engagement in the IV’s. IV’s are more shrill - the get louder but it starts to sizzle your ears at higher volumes. Whereas the III, as you make it louder, the sound just gets bigger and bigger and swallows you up with warmth and dynamics and blends brilliantly with subwoofers. The steeper slope in the crossover despite being “better” removes the pleasing heft you get from the woofer reproducing some of the same frequencies as the midrange. The result is a thinner sounding speaker. It’s a shame TBH - once in a while Klipsch gives into to the audiophile snobs and I don’t think the outcomes are generally good. Detail Power Emotion - the IV’s are tilted to heavily towards detail and power, not emotion.
Gas up some chris Stapleton parachute on those bad boys
...we can only use artist that will give us the music to play. He will want too much for the use.
We hope to add more tracks to the list as time progresses but, we must acquire permission from each artist before live streaming. Stay tuned. :)
What veneer is the Forte IV speakers?
Both the IV and the III are available in black ash, distressed oak, natural cherry and American walnut. In this video, we used Distressed oak for the IIIs and the walnut for the IVs.
PLEASE please tell us which clip is iii vs iv's.
We didn't want to bias the switch...and many times we couldn't tell the difference. Other times it stood out.
A was the left switch...= III B = IV
@@treycannon2275 Thank you for clarifying. Also your comment regarding closeness of sound signature was a key point. I struggled with understanding if I were to make a mistake in buying a used Forte iii vs the new iv and I feel more confident that the Forte III is still very relevant. I have the small Klipsch RP600 and am handwringing between buying the new Heresy iv versus a used Forte III . I suspect both would be excellent choices but my sense is that the Forte just digs deeper. From what I read, the Heresy tweeter horn and mid range horn are identical to the Cornwall. So as I see it, the sound signature of the Legacy line is very similar, but you are buying (increasingly) deeper bass with each iteration From Heresy to Cornwall (LaScala). Am I correct? Thank you for your thoughts.
@@jeffreypicciolo7706 ....The Cornwall IV has a MUCH different horn than the Heresy IV. ( the III had the same as the cornwall III) I like a 2.1 system...so the H IV would work just fine for me...if you only want a 2.0 system, Forte all day...III or IV. As for deeper bass...kind of. The LF and the mix of the LF to the MID are where the balance of the speaker start. The woofer is the quietest part. It sets the stage in sensitivity and LF extension. Once you get the woofer / cabinet tuning working, you start to add in the rest of the parts. With the La Scala you have a much different beast. The woofer is now loading into the air through a transformer and thus the transition is done so much more easily. That is where the extra output comes from...but as with anything, you don't get something for nothing. The horn has limits in its control and low frequency cutoff. The same woofer in a Cornwall can get down to 38Hz. Where in the LS it rolls off hard at 50Hz...but has double the output. So with the bass reflex cabinets, you are right to a point.
We have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
In the long run 3 are better.
They are both awesome speakers. You really can't go wrong deciding between the two.
Mega gas
Thanks For watching!
Too much fiber
Forte 4 More clarity more detail more air a little bit more in your face the other speaker sounds more muddy more further away everything compress together with like almost like a sheet over the voices I would go with the new one
How do you know it's forte 4? We can't see which is which. Maybe forte 3 have more clarity in midrange because of titanium driver. We need to wait another reviews.
We didn't initially include an overlay saying which is which, as this creates a bias while listening and it's often times difficult to tell the difference when not listening to the units in person. Due to the responses though, we have updated the notes to include a list of timeframes when we switch between the two units. We still recommend you listen the first time through without knowing, and give yourself a blind test. Afterwards, go back and check the list and compare your notes.:)
True - the IV is a little clearer, but at the expense of sounding harsh and shredding your eardrums in the midrange. The midrange actually sounds a little disjointed from the rest of the speaker. Whereas the III Sounds big and full and engaging, and better and bigger as you turn it up, without shredding your ears.
Well... To my ears threes sound better.
When you're listening on youtube, any actual speaker in your home will sound better.
-Jason
@@TopShelfAudio haha I didn't mean what they sound like in the video. Heard them both live. But fwiw: I do think that even in the video, the mids, while not as (ahem) 'refined' as on the fours are plainly more dynamic and engaging. These are expensive speakers, and I guess I expect to be moved by more than what the latest 'refined' crossover delivers. But as you say, can't go wrong either way.
@@I-Libertine the 3’s definitely sound better
@@I-Libertine I heard them both in person as well. The III’s are definitely a more engaging speaker. The IV’s have a brittle sound and get harsh as they get louder. I don’t know what they were thinking.
@@I-Libertine I think they were trying to align the Sonic signature of the IV’s to the rest of the heritage line. They should have done the opposite and aligned the rest of the heritage line to the Sonic signature of the III’s.
To my ears either the version 3 or the version 4 virtually sound the exact same
Because when your processing the sound for more extended and deeper Bass softer mid-range is in softer hand tweet...😅 In all virtually depends on how your processing and what your ears hear. And when it comes down to the cost search out the least expensive of the two. If you're lucky enough to find a pair of the f o r t e version 3.😅 New in the box never used by anybody for any reason and not refurbished what would be referred to as full warranty grade A speakers... That should be your choice.. bought two pair of the V3.. it's an upgrade to my klf 30
Two pair of those as well and they're still present in the basement pounding the concrete all day long. When it comes to the heritage series of Klipsch speakers.. it can truly be said that the forte IS THE ABSOLUTE SWEET SPOT OF THE HERITAGE SERIES SPEAKERS.. YOU WANT TO HEAR AN ALBUM THROUGH THE KLIPSCH 4K SERIES THAT WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT THE SPEAKERS ARE CAPABLE OF??
FIND A COPY OF JOE WALSH'S JAMES GANG RIDES AGAIN,""😅 TITLED ALBUM AND PLAY A LITTLE TUNE CALLED
," WOMAN"AND THEN FEED THE BEAST WHAT'S AN AMPLIFIER.. AND YOU WILL KNOW AND SMILE...
I guess this is what happens when you audition speakers over TH-cam. The 3's are nothing like the 4's. The 3's are significantly brighter and harsher plus the upper punchy bass just isn't the same. Biggest problem was that they were trying to hit a certain budget with the crossover. They did update the squawker driver and tweeter horn to smooth things out but the crossover now is like twice as complex and it's extremely easy to hear the difference. At some point at least spring for the Forte 3 to 4 upgrade kit and thank me later. -- Cory
@@TopShelfAudio I understand exactly what you're saying but here's the thing in today's economy it's all about the money...
I'm just obtained two pair of the version 3 new in the box never used produced inbox by clips about 6 months before the version 4 was released .. and I got those two complete pair new in the box we're less than 3,800 delivered.. it's kind of like buying one pair get the second pair free that'll never happen with the version 4.. and anyone will have a very hard time finding the version 3 new in the box.. people are keeping their versions 3 because they love them
More version 4 are being sold used then the version 3 ever had.. go to wonder why that is.. version 3 is very hard to find.. version 4 is ubiquitously everywhere.
And everyone is asking the same price for them no matter what.. either 5,400 new shipt..3800 used.. no one is asking less
Got to wonder why everybody wants to sell their used forte fours.. but not their used for a 3.. a legitimate answer is necessary thanks
@@LggemLggem one of my biggest sellers is actually the Forte 3 to 4 upgrade kit. Nobody's dumping them at the rate that you claim. If anything they're rushing to upgrade their 3's to the 4 more than anything.