Will it hold the edge? Some of you have been asking - i have been wondering myself. It has been in use now for few weeks, i have used it for the new roof truss. And few days ago i decided to re sharpen it. Not because it was blunt, but because it was not perfectly sharp any more. Nor did i count the hours or cuts i have made, neither can i define in words what exactly i mean with 'blunt' or 'sharp' - but what i can share is, that it feels very similar to my new bought rip cut saw (William Greaves - Sheffield): they have been used and sharpened simultaniously. This saw has got two different hardenings: one on the tips only + one on the entire blade (if not, the blade would bent with the first stroke). So, the question is, if this softer hardening makes a useful saw or not. It might not work on any saw, but with this one, i can say that it worked out very well. Important is, to remove the hardened tips carefully, without overheating the blade and therefore destroying the second, softer hardening of the blade. In my case, the saw is made by Bahco with swedish steel (5-6€ cheap) Did someone try this out on other saws? How did it work out?
I've wondered many times if this could be done, and thought about trying, but... obviously (as with most things)... never got round to it. So, thank you once again, Mikro Dasos!
This video made my heart happy. You took trash and made a treasure. You gave a part of your spirit to save the life of this tool that still had so much to give. I remember as a small child, my grand father's tools were ALWAYS very sharp! Thankfully, he taught me the skills to keep tools sharp & I in turn, try to teach others at every opportunity. Thank you for sharing your talent and expertise!...(LOVED you wooden filing guide! So simple yet, so effective.)
This is terrific work. However, seeing the remnants left behind from the work of a freshly sharpened saw, reminds me why I love my Japanese saws so much. Obrigado.
I have chosen to make an aggressive, fast cutting saw out of it, which keeps the edge longest possible: steep rake and low fleam. With a different geometry the cut can be much finer, but for sure not as fine as from Japanese saws.
I've been touching up my impulse hardened saw for about 10 years with a little diamond file. it goes a long time between sharpenings. Very light stoning of the sides with a fine diamond plate. Hard to find a fine "three square" diamond file, though - mostly they're too rough for a good result regardless of what the add copy says.
There are many ways got get sharp tools. Nice to know, that it worked for you. Somehow a nice idea to keep the hardened teeth for longer durability. I'll see how it goes in the long run...
@@littleforest Finding a decent diamond file was really the thing that made it doable. I have 4 or 5 now, and only one was acceptable. I haven't found any with grit size consistent enough to really be considered "fine". The only reason it works at all is because the steel is so hard. On regular saw steel, a file leaves a much better edge. I wish DMT or Atoma would start making saw files.
'Brilliant' was the idea to impulse harden hand saws. That is how industry managed to convert a long lasting tool into throw-away-after-use product. There are many blades i use which come along without: traditional hand saw (Disston, Thomas Flinn, Veritas, Lie Nielsen...), our Logosol band sawmill blades - any bandsaw blade, most Japanese handsaws - just to mention a few. And still, they are all hardened, but only to about 48-52 HCR. The impulse hardening makes it as hard as a file (somewhere between 65-70 HRC).
Cool method! I tried something similar with a couple of my hardpoint saws. I dialed in a hot plate so I could consistently heat the teeth to the point they became comfortably fileable (as the steel turned from purple to blue.). This way I could reuse and only touch up the existing teeth. The saw blades didn't warp after this treatment. I've used these saws and filed them a couple times since and they work well. Maybe softer this way (adjustable) than old saw steel but they hold their sharpness and do the job.
Hei Robin. Nice to hear! I've been trying a similar method: heating the teeth with a lighter. But it did not work out. Maybe, i did not heat enough!? Cool idea to use a hot plate. And nice to know, that your saws are usable after the treatment. I might try this out for the next saw. Specially when the teeth form should stay as it is, it seems to be the faster way.
@@littleforestI have successfully “drawn” the hardness of the teeth by using a small chef’s gas blowtorch with a focusable flame. I heated the very tips of the teeth until they just start to glow red, then quickly move on…it only takes a couple of seconds. I then allowed the blade to cool to ambient temperature, at which point I could file the teeth as required. I have sharpened both to the original crosscut pattern and to rip cut. My experience is that the saws sharpened this way cut ok but are not as durable as a vintage saw, requiring sharpening more frequently. I came to the conclusion that the exercise was worthwhile in order to learn how to sharpen a saw but that I would be better served by getting a couple of vintage saws, which I could get quite readily on EBay.
Hm, what if you just heat it up with the propane torch ? Will it become too soft to hold the edge ? Or just as hard as any western style saw which can be sharpened with the file ?
I have never tried it with heat, but it should also work. Many have good experience with it. But in my case, i wanted to change the teath geometry to get a more agressive cut. So i concluded that the chosen method would be the easier one.
Nice idea! Make an update after some use - is the blade durable, does it hold an edge? This way one can get a cheap ripcut saw as well, as all the market saws are crosscut
Exactly, free to choose what kind of saw is needed - rip or cross and also the design of the teeth: rather fast cut or more finer cut. Freedom is the advantage of 'self-made' :-)
@@littleforest In my experience it is a matter of experience. :) The pressure force of a diamond file is an order of magnitude lower than a steel file and the number of movements is also an order of magnitude less.
i did this with a cheap hard point dovetail saw a while ago and i don't need to sharpen it often to keep it sharp. maybe with a larger saw it will need more sharpening but saw steel is much softer than chisels anyway.
Thank you for this comment! How could i forget to mention some words about it in the video text!? Yes, it will turn numb faster then with the hardened teeth. But, it can be resharpened any time, what will from now on just take few minutes. Not only the teeth are hardened, also the whole blade is. If not, it would bent with the first stroke. I do not know how hard, but while filing it felt similar than my traditional saws. So, i concluded that this hardening has not been removed while the process. Traditional saws are hardened to about 48-52 HRC. This is less hard then files, so that they can be sharpened with them.
Will it hold the edge? Some of you have been asking - i have been wondering myself.
It has been in use now for few weeks, i have used it for the new roof truss. And few days ago i decided to re sharpen it. Not because it was blunt, but because it was not perfectly sharp any more.
Nor did i count the hours or cuts i have made, neither can i define in words what exactly i mean with 'blunt' or 'sharp' - but what i can share is, that it feels very similar to my new bought rip cut saw (William Greaves - Sheffield): they have been used and sharpened simultaniously.
This saw has got two different hardenings: one on the tips only + one on the entire blade (if not, the blade would bent with the first stroke). So, the question is, if this softer hardening makes a useful saw or not.
It might not work on any saw, but with this one, i can say that it worked out very well.
Important is, to remove the hardened tips carefully, without overheating the blade and therefore destroying the second, softer hardening of the blade.
In my case, the saw is made by Bahco with swedish steel (5-6€ cheap)
Did someone try this out on other saws?
How did it work out?
I use diamond files to resharpen the hardened teeth instead of removing them. Works well for both western and japanese saws
The gizmo for the 45 degrees for crosscut sharpening is genius!
Love the jig you used to set the file angle! Going to have to copy that!
I've watched a lot of woodworking videos and this is the craziest thing I have ever seen. Amazing job.
I've wondered many times if this could be done, and thought about trying, but... obviously (as with most things)... never got round to it. So, thank you once again, Mikro Dasos!
This video made my heart happy. You took trash and made a treasure. You gave a part of your spirit to save the life of this tool that still had so much to give. I remember as a small child, my grand father's tools were ALWAYS very sharp! Thankfully, he taught me the skills to keep tools sharp & I in turn, try to teach others at every opportunity. Thank you for sharing your talent and expertise!...(LOVED you wooden filing guide! So simple yet, so effective.)
Oh, thanx for your comment. It is motivating :-)
This is terrific work. However, seeing the remnants left behind from the work of a freshly sharpened saw, reminds me why I love my Japanese saws so much. Obrigado.
I have chosen to make an aggressive, fast cutting saw out of it, which keeps the edge longest possible: steep rake and low fleam. With a different geometry the cut can be much finer, but for sure not as fine as from Japanese saws.
I've been touching up my impulse hardened saw for about 10 years with a little diamond file. it goes a long time between sharpenings. Very light stoning of the sides with a fine diamond plate. Hard to find a fine "three square" diamond file, though - mostly they're too rough for a good result regardless of what the add copy says.
There are many ways got get sharp tools. Nice to know, that it worked for you. Somehow a nice idea to keep the hardened teeth for longer durability. I'll see how it goes in the long run...
@@littleforest Finding a decent diamond file was really the thing that made it doable. I have 4 or 5 now, and only one was acceptable. I haven't found any with grit size consistent enough to really be considered "fine". The only reason it works at all is because the steel is so hard. On regular saw steel, a file leaves a much better edge. I wish DMT or Atoma would start making saw files.
@@littleforest By destroying the temper in the teeth, how do you think it is going to go. A non tempered cutting edge brilliant! :
'Brilliant' was the idea to impulse harden hand saws. That is how industry managed to convert a long lasting tool into throw-away-after-use product. There are many blades i use which come along without: traditional hand saw (Disston, Thomas Flinn, Veritas, Lie Nielsen...), our Logosol band sawmill blades - any bandsaw blade, most Japanese handsaws - just to mention a few.
And still, they are all hardened, but only to about 48-52 HCR.
The impulse hardening makes it as hard as a file (somewhere between 65-70 HRC).
Cool method! I tried something similar with a couple of my hardpoint saws. I dialed in a hot plate so I could consistently heat the teeth to the point they became comfortably fileable (as the steel turned from purple to blue.). This way I could reuse and only touch up the existing teeth. The saw blades didn't warp after this treatment.
I've used these saws and filed them a couple times since and they work well. Maybe softer this way (adjustable) than old saw steel but they hold their sharpness and do the job.
Hei Robin. Nice to hear! I've been trying a similar method: heating the teeth with a lighter. But it did not work out. Maybe, i did not heat enough!? Cool idea to use a hot plate. And nice to know, that your saws are usable after the treatment. I might try this out for the next saw. Specially when the teeth form should stay as it is, it seems to be the faster way.
@@littleforestI have successfully “drawn” the hardness of the teeth by using a small chef’s gas blowtorch with a focusable flame. I heated the very tips of the teeth until they just start to glow red, then quickly move on…it only takes a couple of seconds. I then allowed the blade to cool to ambient temperature, at which point I could file the teeth as required. I have sharpened both to the original crosscut pattern and to rip cut. My experience is that the saws sharpened this way cut ok but are not as durable as a vintage saw, requiring sharpening more frequently. I came to the conclusion that the exercise was worthwhile in order to learn how to sharpen a saw but that I would be better served by getting a couple of vintage saws, which I could get quite readily on EBay.
Hm, what if you just heat it up with the propane torch ?
Will it become too soft to hold the edge ? Or just as hard as any western style saw which can be sharpened with the file ?
I have never tried it with heat, but it should also work.
Many have good experience with it.
But in my case, i wanted to change the teath geometry to get a more agressive cut. So i concluded that the chosen method would be the easier one.
Brilliant idea To copy the pith From existing!
Nice idea! Make an update after some use - is the blade durable, does it hold an edge? This way one can get a cheap ripcut saw as well, as all the market saws are crosscut
Exactly, free to choose what kind of saw is needed - rip or cross and also the design of the teeth: rather fast cut or more finer cut. Freedom is the advantage of 'self-made' :-)
Wow. Master.
But what is the problem with using a diamond needle file?
To my experience the diamonds will fastly drop from the file using it this way.
@@littleforest In my experience it is a matter of experience. :) The pressure force of a diamond file is an order of magnitude lower than a steel file and the number of movements is also an order of magnitude less.
👍👍👍👍
it will be blunted quickly, I think.
i did this with a cheap hard point dovetail saw a while ago and i don't need to sharpen it often to keep it sharp. maybe with a larger saw it will need more sharpening but saw steel is much softer than chisels anyway.
Now make a comfortable wooden handle for it.
Certainly more quickly than the hardened tips. I wonder how the unhardened steel compares to an old fashioned sharpenable saw.
@@michaelmennuti4414i think for the same thing.
Thank you for this comment! How could i forget to mention some words about it in the video text!?
Yes, it will turn numb faster then with the hardened teeth. But, it can be resharpened any time, what will from now on just take few minutes.
Not only the teeth are hardened, also the whole blade is. If not, it would bent with the first stroke. I do not know how hard, but while filing it felt similar than my traditional saws. So, i concluded that this hardening has not been removed while the process.
Traditional saws are hardened to about 48-52 HRC. This is less hard then files, so that they can be sharpened with them.
Could have skipped the hacksaw step
Great video. Thanks. I'm going to destroy my £5 hard-point saw now ...
Looks like hardship!
I'm copying the jig for triangular file. 😅
Get this carbide crap out of the way, there's steel underneath!