I second that. I have really gained some great advice, not feeling so crazy seeing so many stories across the spectrum of relationships. NPD doesn't pick a gender. I appreciate Duane also being neutral in alot of his pronoun descriptive. They, we, them, us...makes or more realistic, inclusive and approachable to all victims in general. More power to us all!
The irony is that you have to ACT like a narcissist in order to avoid getting screwed by the narcissist. This is true at least initially. I believe once they know you are for real, their tactics back off a LITTLE. But you still have to maintain it because every now and then they will send out a "feeler" to see if you are still serious about respecting yourself.
Johann that is an excellent point and one that complicates our recovery because we start to think that maybe we ARE a narcissist. I know that’s not really what you are saying there but it is another pitfall of this situation. If we do not modify our approach and we continue to “play nice” it just causes us more damage and trauma. -Duane
It's very simple: put yourself first in life. Like on an airplane when they say, put your own mask on first, and then help the person next to you. We empaths don't understand this until we have been battered for years or decades by narcissists. But the reality is, if you take care of yourself first, you won't be appealing to narcissists in the first place. Narcs are looking to take without giving. Narcs only want empaths who prioritize others rather than themselves, so that the narc can be first at all times in a couple. I hate to sound harsh but empaths, stop prioritizing anyone else above yourself and the narcs will go away- abandon ship.
Narcissists love to blindside, so the more you learn about narcissism and the narcissists' playbook, the better you can deal and protect yourself. Learning about narcissistic supply really helped me a lot.
Good advice. No more nice guy. A. Don't talk to them. B. If you have business with them, go through the lawyers. C. Learn how they behave and act accordingly. When you learn this, they become easy to predict. D. Get ready for a long game. E. Make your moves when the time(s) are right and watch the narc implode.
Dealing with these people is especially difficult because the dynamic is that abusers seek out people with one common characteristic: we are nice and we think of others before ourselves. So 1. it takes forever to figure out that these people are for real NOT nice people because we (say it with me now...give others the benefit of the doubt!!), and 2. WE cant be our normal nice selves, which feels wrong. So we have to 1. admit and accept that they do not see others the way we do, their goal is NOT to have a "good relationship" but to be in control, and 2. we have to be something that is foreign to us. No wonder it takes so long to figure it all out!!! Grrr! Seriously, after 32 years of abuse, I have gone from a really sweet, silver lining, kind hearted person to a tough as nails, in your face, im not taking any shit off of anybody, person. I am just now feeling like I can start to be myself again. Crazy.
You nailed it right there Debby with the underlining truth that we do get to get back to our true selves. The best part is that we can still be nice and optimistic but we can also see through the lies of toxic people. Takes a long time to get there so go for you in making it! 👍🏻 -Duane
One cannot be nice with a narcissist. Instead, one has to be strictly business. The only way to beat a narcissist at their game is by becoming a full-fledged empath when engaging with the narcissist. In other words, one has to learn to put themselves in the narcissists shoes. Recently, my motto has been: what would the narcissist do? If you don't have the ability to understand the narcissist, you will continue to be screwed by the narcissist. One always has be 100 steps ahead when dealing with a narcissist. I mean one can become dependent on an attorney but attorneys can eventually hold you back in your progression and they can eventually become more of a liability than an investment. If one truly wants to become fully armored and loaded in a fight against a narcissist, one needs to become well versed in the law. The law is a fully loaded weapon that will indefinitely keep a narcissist at bay. Remember, narcissists know how to manipulate everything around them and they know how to do it very well. One of the things they know how to manipulate very well is the law and that is why they get away with everything they do. One must learn to utilize the law. One must learn that there is "positive" law just like there is "negative" law. If one does not take the time to comprehend the law then expect to live an unpleasant life. I mean it's already hard enough to know that what you experienced with this person was all a lie and it is also difficult to accept that your children will forever be used as their pawns. So why continue to let them win? Why continue to let them play with our minds and emotions? This is exactly why a few months back, I made the decision that I was opting out of the narcissist's game. I made sure to keep my emotions to myself. I quickly found ways to no longer be emotionally connected to the narcissist. Don't get me wrong. I am still human and at times I still get affected by what my narcissist does but it only lasts for a fraction of the time that it used to and then I get back on track towards working on what my next steps are to protect myself against the narcissist. Always remember, that a narcissist is very much like a dormant virus. The virus will be plotting it's next move against you so when the time is right, they will take full advantage of you so they can reap the benefits. Anyhow, everyone stay healthy, stay safe and stay strong!!!
I have to be honest Henry I wasn't entirely sure where you were going with your empath comment but after reading it I think you have an excellent point. We have to realize and recognize the difference in the way a narcissist will approach the situation. I did something similar where I thought the ex had the mentality of a teenager (I even said this in the custody evaluation but they discounted it). But when I did that I could almost always predict what she was going to do - it was annoying but also very helpful. I didn't connect the dots that she might have a personality disorder and honestly I didn't even know or understand what those were. You make an excellent point and I like the way you say you disengaged from the narcissist and no longer allowed them to have emotional control over you. I really believe that is the key to recovery from this - until we are able to do that we are stuck in this visous cycle of emotional abuse where it feels as if there is no escape. But, there is an escape and it comes from our own decision to STOP allowing them to effect us anymore. Much easier said than done - but when we get to that point it is MUCH easier and as you said the impact lasts only a fraction of the time it used to! -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, thank you for taking the time to understand what I'm trying to say!!! I have been training myself to better communicate my viewpoint. Empathy is not a bad thing even with a narcissist. One has to understand that empathy can be used for good and evil. This is the textbook definition of empathy: em·pa·thy ˈempəTHē/ noun the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. Obviously, we are not like the narcissist but we can still feel what they feel and think the way they think. We will never know why they operate the way they do because there could be one reason or many. It could also be that they were born that way or that they experienced something in their lives that have made them that way. Who knows? But you hit it right on the nose. They think very much like an immature individual and at some point we were also immature so isn't it safe to say that we can understand them without much effort? So becoming an empath in a difficult situation with a difficult person can only make things easier. Because then you can reduce a narcissist to what they truly are.... a person who has a hard time maturing!!! Then we realize that they are not a superhuman person with superhuman strength and emotions. They are merely human just like us. Textbook definition of mature: ma·ture məˈCHo͝or,məˈto͝or/ adjective 1. having completed natural growth and development Putting yourself in the narcissists shoes is a difficult task as it requires a lot of emotional energy. I don't recommend it to individuals who have not yet emotionally healed themselves from the narcissistic abuse that they've experienced. However, I think eventually it is necessary to empathize with the narcissist and it will make life easier because then you are many steps ahead of them. I am not trying to say to feel sorry for the narcissist, I am simply saying to understand the narcissist. You see with time one will realize that a narcissist is also an empath but they use this gift for evil. Textbook definition of empath: em·path ˈempaTH/ noun (chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend the mental or emotional state of another individual. Para•normal Para = beyond, Normal = conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. Para + normal = beyond standard So you see taking the time to be an empath can help one in their difficult journey with a narcissist. Know thy enemy! Duane, I hope you don't mind me having posted up textbook definitions in this comment. The only reason why I did this is to have the exact definition of these words and to make sense of what I'm trying to convey. I hope this post makes some sense. And I hope it is helpful to those who have reached the "no more Mr. Nice guy" phase. Lots of positivity and peace to all the narcissistic survivors out there!!!
Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, thank you for taking the time to understand what I'm trying to say!!! I have been training myself to better communicate my viewpoint. Empathy is not a bad thing even with a narcissist. One has to understand that empathy can be used for good and evil. This is the textbook definition of empathy: em·pa·thy ˈempəTHē/ noun the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. Obviously, we are not like the narcissist but we can still feel what they feel and think the way they think. We will never know why they operate the way they do because there could be one reason or many. It could also be that they were born that way or that they experienced something in their lives that have made them that way. Who knows? But you hit it right on the nose. They think very much like an immature individual and at some point we were also immature so isn't it safe to say that we can understand them without much effort? So becoming an empath in a difficult situation with a difficult person can only make things easier. Because then you can reduce a narcissist to what they truly are.... a person who has a hard time maturing!!! Then we realize that they are not a superhuman person with superhuman strength and emotions. They are merely human just like us. Textbook definition of mature: ma·ture məˈCHo͝or,məˈto͝or/ adjective 1. having completed natural growth and development Putting yourself in the narcissists shoes is a difficult task as it requires a lot of emotional energy. I don't recommend it to individuals who have not yet emotionally healed themselves from the narcissistic abuse that they've experienced. However, I think eventually it is necessary to empathize with the narcissist and it will make life easier because then you are many steps ahead of them. I am not trying to say to feel sorry for the narcissist, I am simply saying to understand the narcissist. You see with time one will realize that a narcissist is also an empath but they use this gift for evil. Textbook definition of empath: em·path ˈempaTH/ noun (chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend the mental or emotional state of another individual. Para•normal Para = beyond, Normal = conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. Para + normal = beyond standard So you see taking the time to be an empath can help one in their difficult journey with a narcissist. Know thy enemy! Duane, I hope you don't mind me having posted up textbook definitions in this comment. The only reason why I did this is to have the exact definition of these words and to make sense of what I'm trying to convey. I hope this post makes some sense. And I hope it is helpful to those who have reached the "no more Mr. Nice guy" phase. Lots of positivity and peace to all the narcissistic survivors out there!!!
No worries Henry it is a really good discussion and perspective. You make a really good point that people who aren't ready shouldn't put themselves through that process - recovery from this is a slow process and there are things we can do to speed it up and things we can do to completely derail our progress. -Duaen
They waist your time Consume your energy and think they’re entitled because they are deviants Stop waisting your time on someone who doesn’t have the capacity to understand true love but act just to get as they please I hope everyone stays blessed by swerving the bs spoonfuls don’t be the victim Know your worth
Nice gets you nowhere - it may buy a little peace for the moment but will eventually be even more hell with the "nice" stop and 1 more thing to throw at you.....
Another good book is “splitting” but i will tell you that when i first read it, i was at the very beginning of my D and i didn’t believe anything like that was going to happen to me, and then it all happened exactly like a pattern.
It is a pattern - and that is a good thing - because it helps us identify what we are dealing with. It also means there are proven techniques to help you deal with them! (Hybrid no contact, no contact, gray rock, absolute thinking, blackhole thinking) -Duane
Every time I had a breaking point, he did the honeymoon phase to reel me back in. During the honeymoon phase he would love-bomb me, tell me what I wanted to hear, pretend to be good for like 2 days or a week if I was lucky. Then he would go right back to the same crap, pushing my boundaries. I SWEAR they like pushing your boundaries constantly to subconsciously let you know they want to skate closer to the edge for a bigger risk, like having an affair. It just never seems like its enough with them.
This is coming to light,..! My pride has to go with them..getting set up for the battle..this is good..no comprimise on anything, no contact 4 sure, believer of the true and seeing thru those lies...say what? Keeping out of it ,getting protectionism for your family, right? Amen & amen brother.....his love endures forever..once and for all!
Frances Bernard here. That is why i saw it as ludicrous of a psychologist appointed by the courts instead of helping me get me more parenting time only offered more advice on how to be 'nice' to my ex. Furthermore another ludicrous thing one policeman told me was that I should play dumb while pretending not to notice what was going on. No matter what I tired to do in the situation it only ever lead to me losing more resources that could have been used to better care for my children. And so all I could do was to muddle through while resorting to at times unorthodox means to find more time to parent. What was happening was that I was being targeted period because they all saw me succeeding in any way as a threat to their own income. And so I was left with a cruel choice: Abandon my children altogether or be uncooperative around our children with him like him too. And so I always had to gauge the risks as to how doing so might affect my children. Like when being called up in the middle of the night to be told my son Jack at age 16 was sick and they were not willing to care for him and so it was my turn on their time table only. I did go over there and while doing so when outside I woke up the neighborhood with my loud voice complaining about it while hauling my son to the car and I didn't care one bit what anyone thought of me while doing so.
Absolutely true! Don't ever fall for it! It's a trap! I had even gone out of my way to leave jewelry his family had given me for him and he then turned around and accused me of "stealing" an item left to my daughter. I actually yelled at my lawyer then. So ridiculous. And disgusting. Later I realized he was really doing everything he could to cause me to give up. I could have fought this so much better. But in the end I'm so proud of myself for not crumbling. He didn't chase me away. I never left town. I got rid of his flying monkeys and I stand up for myself. It was hard at first. But now I don't even feel like I'm not being nice. I am nice! I'm no longer a victim. And I think that is really what "Mr. Nice Guy" is. He's a victim. Stop being a victim, stand up for yourself and learn how to fight back. Great advice as usual, Duane.
Excellent example Trish and you've done a great job! I know it didn't feel like it at the time and we ALL could have done things better or different if we had known. The one good thing about our stories is that there is an opportunity for someone just starting this process to *learn* about what they are dealing with and make changes that really helps them out in the long run. It's hard though when they are "playing" the victim and we're like "what"? It's confusing and then we get sucked into their crazy little game. -Duane
Spot on! put yourself first and stop being nice! They will back away. If a child is involved (like in my case). Take them to court, collect evidence and do all you can to see your child! Take no prisoners.
Yeah you have to hit hard and hit well - the only downside is if you fight back and do it wrong then all we end up doing is emboldening them and making it worse. Hope you're take no prisoners worked well - because when it does things get MUCH better!
After 28 years of seeing my ex as an ally, someone I could trust and who had my best interests at heart, I had trouble adjusting to the idea that she had become an adversary. My brain couldn't reconcile the things she was doing with the person I thought she was.
My ex and I had an agreement where our son would spend the summer with me. My ex told me that our son wanted to get a summer job. I confirmed this with our son. I needed major surgery anyway, so I scheduled it for the summer, which worked out great for me because I'm a teacher. Now he is trying to say that I didn't follow the agreement because I had surgery and that's not his problem. It's very hard to be accommodating or show compassion because in the end you get punished.
Ugh Sabrina that is (unfortunately) a really good example of how devious these people can be. What I found in my situation is that I always just follow the court order because typically I would be punished some how for accommodating her. Typically for me it would be I would compromise and she would say “NO” to anything I asked for. If he is just “saying” that you didn’t do your parenting agreement to smear you then just ignore it - that is really the main premise of the bit.ly/BlackHoleThinking video. I know it’s a struggle but the best course of action is to *think* of everything with your ex as a black hole and like you don’t even know about it. I know it’s MUCH harder to do in practice BUT I think if you have that framework in your head it “helps” you do that. If however he is trying to make it an issues with family court (or child support services) then make sure you keep all the documentation with the arrangement. In the future I would *highly recommend* exchanging time so the time remains the same. Although I’ve *never* been able to exercise a swap of days I strongly encourage you to do it (or at least try) and again have that documentation. Its tough though as our children get older because they are (and do) have their own lives so what do you do? I mean are you really going to tell your son he has to quite his job (that he’s probably excited about)? Any *good parent* is going to do as you did and “make the most of it”. It’s just wrong when you are *punished* for doing that. Stay strong Sabrina - I hate to say it but bit.ly/AbsoluteThinking is the technique that really *saved me* from continuing to make those same mistakes over and over again. Believing what you know is true (that they are toxic/narcissistic) and protecting yourself is really important for healing and recovering from this type of emotional abuse. -Duane
In these cases, with toxic/disordered people it's better to be wise than nice. My toxic encounter was an old friend, not a partner, so my situation was very different and not as complicated as the situation of many others on this channel. But it was still darn difficult. Nowadays, regarding that relationship I'm not Mr Nice, I am Mr Gone. Incommunicado. M.I.A. :)
Taldinom you hit on a point that is very true - it doesn't really matter what the circumstances are the damage these people can do is incredible. Obviously having a recurring connecting like children is much more complicated but what I've found is we all go through the same emotional phases to recover from this. It really is all about perspective though. Everyone's story has a really traumatic aspect of it - some stories are worse and some are easier. However - if we could all be "Mr. Gone" that would be the best solution! Well - if we could take our children with us! -Duane
A narcissist sees your kindness as weakness. They never appreciate anything nice you do, to them, they are entitled to everyone doing everything for them, while they rip you off. If I could go back and tell myself anything, it would be "be a complete B from the start". He gained so much ground while I was sitting around trying to be 'fair'.
I believe that codependent people tend to fall for narcissists the most. I am a recovering codependent, I’ve made a lot of progress. You have to have a healthy self love and stop trying to win the love of a narcissist. We don’t need it! And it’s not even love. Get well, get your healing and God bless you.
My recommendation is to N E V E R, never, never, never be alone, without a recording device, with a narcissist that could even slightly have reason to do you harm. They will lie in the most unpredictable, egregious manner that is almost impossible to predict. Take it from someone who has given the benefit of doubt probably a dozen times too many. Every accusation trumped the previous, until the most unthinkable happened and the narc ex wife tried accusing my wife (kids' step mom) and I of medical neglect and sexual exploitation.
Its so easy to go off course and forget their ever present agendas, especially when you get triggered and are in the reaction still.This is a great reminder, its all about the supply. This week is the first week I said no to the narc. I took a duvet against his threats. It is a duvet I bough before we lived together. I was forced to leave mid dec our home. It is in his name although we paid equally to all household outgoings month by month including the mortgage. He did not dispute this but maintained that it was tough my name was not on the mortgage so I'm not getting anything. I have bought all the furniture and all contents in the house. He would not let me take anything after forcing me out with his abusive behaviour. I am very interested in the topic, 'What happens when you say no/stand up to the Narc?' . I don't have a lawyer yet. It can be daunting because you know they don't respond reasonably to fairness for both and often feel too fraught/ strung out to accommodate their tantrum. I think though, that time away from them seems to repair a shell that emboldens us. I'm only 6 weeks into the living separation so learning as I go. As always, thanks for your videos. Now off to visit your website which I'm surprised I have not done yet. Angela x
Hi Angela, if you are in a community property state then it doesn't matter what your name is on. If he "owned" it prior to marriage then *maybe* he has a point but he'd have to fight that. Bottom line though is that these people like to use fear and intimidation to control their targets. It all really depends on how much you want to fight and what you are willing to fight for. Nothing on this is going to be easy and these people generally don't just role over and give up when you catch them on something. When you stand up to a narc generally it really enrages them and can respond like a corned animal so just be careful. This is where an attorney can be very helpful because you can direct all communication through them and take "some" of the emotions out of the equations. Unfortunately things will be conflicted until one side runs out of money and there ins't anything else to fund the *arguing* but if you're dealing with a NPD you have limited options because they just won't be reasonable - at least THEIR attorney will advise them on what is realistic - BUT - again keep in mind that typically a attorney will do their job (what their client wants) until there isn't any money left and then they give them the final options to stop. Fortunately in my situation funds were limited so it too about 7 months to reach that point. -Duane
Omg. This is so true. Now that i am moving foward and getting stronger. He became the best dad. And now my youngest child keep asking me to do not leave him . so now he is using her to try to keep me around. And i am feeling guilty. 😳
Andrea Causley How disgusting to use your own child against you. Mine did the same accept was saying I was the abusive one. Hang in there. I went through hell and I'm so much better since I left him. He had me trapped for years. Please stay strong. Once you're free you'll see what I'm talking about. Duane gives amazing advice.
Oh god - that's just wrong. Fortunately I was discarded (even though I left) so that wasn't done. I know realistically the idea that he has become the best dad is probably just love bombing and untrue but *maybe* there is a chance that he will do right by your daughter but you need to communicate with her that just isn't going to happen. But talk about a way to triangulate with your children - I thought mine was bad and I hadn't even thought of that possibility. Andrea here's the deal - lets say hypothetically that *maybe* he doesn't have a personality disorder. If you both together are toxic then it's the same thing and you guys shouldn't continue to live in that environment together. The reason I say this is because if he "tries" to change and may even demonstrate on some level that he has changed you can be "tricked" into returning to the relationship. Honestly I think it is a risk that just isn't worth taking. Once someone has exposed their "true selfs" to you and what they are capable of doing you have to remember that - how can you think they would't do it again or something different. Just be *very* careful and safe about whatever course of action you decide to take. But don't do ANYTHING with him just because of guilt - because that was probably the weapon of choice for controlling you before. -Duane
You're right when you say they don't want to be reasonable or negotiate. A month and a half ago I sent her a proposal for separation agreement/settlement through my lawyer and she still hasn't responded. Looks like I'll have no choice but to bring her in mediation which might just end up being a waste of money because she's not mature enough to be fair. They seem to really love dragging things on, they must get narc supply from that
its a game BUT you dont realise your playing the game, i heard a perfect explanation on another post ,and I quote " your do not realise your playing this evil game of tennis YOUR NOT your the Ball,your not even in this game your just the object that gets whacked back and forth and another ball can be used ,your not important,your easily replaced by another ball" It's hard to comprehend but it is in fact true. They are playing the game with themselves your feelings and you do not matter,.just winning its all they care about.
If we still have dysregulation it's very difficult to put up boundaries or effectively manipulate back, be assertive, take back Control or stand your ground. You were more hybrid grey rock and I was more force it back on them but only for the important issues or just say a firm no and then no Contact straight away. Now I Think it's a proogression. You need to be able to grey rock them, no Contact them to gain some Control and not get sucked in. I was forced to be Contact person during visitation for a while last year(Court is too expensive)and I quite rapidly lost the ability to be assertive with her and found myself needing to go no Contact, hybrid grey rock again Before I could deal with her. It's tricky though because if you push all the issues they are just getting supply and pulling you in again. Only one issue and they push and pull,switch and bait up and down, round and round until you get dizzy. It's not hoovering but rapid dysregulation. Now I am back to assertive and can merely draw back when needed and reply"you will have to talk to my lawyer"..
Chris it is really easy to get dragged back into the pit of despair and I think we’ve all been through this - we let our guard down and they are able to creep back in. It is completely against our nature to keep up the fight and the walls but unfortunately that is what we have to do with these people. If they can get in through a cracked door they will do all the damage they can. That is one great thing about having an attorney is that you can just stay “talk to my lawyer” like you said. That really does help. -Duane
Very fitting very helpful video. Ex keeps trying to get into a text/email war with me about "you're not even nice anymore!?!" Nope... Mr. Nice guy is dead. But what is funny to me and her thinking I'm not nice, is that I'm not mean to her at all. I'm absolutely grey rock with her. I don't say anything nasty or nice. Yet she thinks that is mean. The ONLY thing i talk to her about is the immediate well being of our daughter. If its not immediate, the discussion waits or doesn't happen but it's always on my terms. Nothing personal ever gets discussed and i keep the convo as short as possible. Finally becoming aware of the covert narc was the best thing for me.
Went Through a surprise ambush divorce and she ended up with debt. Narcissistic behavior was in it for the thrill and she lost everything. Turned the kids against me and now they are little narcs like her
It is so covert to deal with them on anything. My "husband" just abandon me, our household not even one word leaving, and in a full-pathological lying to anyone he spoke to[ mostly other sick people ] enablers, right in the middle of chapter 13, I just paid off his Visa and bank loan, and he missed the hearing so it is being dismissed, meaning the house goes back into foreclosure, I am packing a 2,700 sq foot house, double garage, packed to the brim, and shed by myself, my youngest daughter "quit" her job in Michigan to fly home and help me, trying to sell a house when he would never do that nor sign the house.........more then narcissism, he is bipolar/self medicating and none of this would go on without his sick enablers hiding him and causing us all this financial loss and pain no attorney, I can not afford it.
I am dealing with a narcassist ex. He lives here and another country. When he text me i answer when i feel like it, and trust me it is no more than 5 words. When he asks a question, i answer yes or no with no explanation. I am too busy with my own life to give him any time more than i have to. You unfortunately,have to limit words with them. I am confortable doing it,it is not a game,it is reality to keep myself sane.
How would you suggest getting past the guilt that was instilled in you during the marriage? TheNPD will trigger it every chance she/he gets. Guilting/blaming has been the major control tool and it is very difficult to move beyond its grip.
That is a great question Penelope Lambson! If you have a therapist I would definitely recommend working on a strategy with them. Minus that I would say review the Hybrid No Contact video and try to incorporate that into your communication. The next thing would be, when she starts doing that, in your mind actually say it (in your head) "she's trying to guilt me again, to trigger me and put me down". Oftentimes when you can take a pause and acknowledge what is going on it can put an "interrupt" and stop YOU from falling for their trap. If that doesn't work then I'd recommend hypnosis (like the ones I recommend on my website) or something like EMDR (with your therapist - if you have one). The thing is if we don't get those triggers under control they will continue to effect us. For instance when I first did "no contact" having that break from her made me feel MUCH better. But the reality is that I hadn't healed from anything so when I was physically around her all that confidence and growth that I *thought* I had shattered. The main thing is all of this takes time and it takes time to master these skills. Its like of like you can't expect to be a pro golfer the first time you hit the course. Everything in life takes practice and work and this is no different. The only problem is we don't get to chose to do this - we HAVE to do it - which makes it even more complicated.
Damages....just to have understanding I tell you what happened...I had to refund the pearl earrings that I bought for her as gift to have money,so I could afford attorney consultation....
Thank you have recently encounter every word youve said about narc. This guy we' ve been dated for two years he discarded me on doing nothing, men that guy tortured me a lots , all i saw on face book last week he was marring someone with my same name and looks . He was in his weeding whilst i was watching him live he still texted me till naw he wamted us to have a chat. Before when i didnt kmow anything about narc i should have meet with him since watching diffirent video i refused to meet with him. It hard sorry the text is long to read however thank you for helping me
I tried to coordinate with my Ex contact with the child, because I did not want to go through the Courts, I soon realised this was a mistake. She used this time to fabricate allegations in preparation for any Court case. Example: She followed me with electronic camera (Mobile Phone) looking for chances to record anything that could later be described as abuse
if they play tricks on you - my brother did it at the armee... he sat down , lightened a candle and started reading every time they attached him... they stopped - didn't want to listen to it.... that was 30 years ago - I guess if you would start reading out loud of a narcissistic book might help as well.... :D they will think you are nuts but will take off bother somebody else.... of course that doesn't work at work but it certain situations just act like you're out of your mind ... ;)
Duane, I came to realise that my Ex is a Pathological Liar and an NPD. Please tell me do they ever turn on the Kids ? Do they get worse, like more mentally ill ? At the moment She seems to get a feed by listening to my young Son speak to me on the Telephone ! ! Chris . . . UK
I like your videos and the information you share but l m not going to change who l am because of them! I like to be nice and gentle because that's who l am you just have to learn who doesn t deserve it and learn to grow teeth with people who wants to mess with you! In the end this is what this people want that we become narcissists!
Have no idea what a narcissist is....ill look it up, been yrs since I was divorced so idk why I am watching, lol......but ill watch My divorce was pretty simple....no kids and she made more money so was pretty smooth I guess......still sucked but good as I could have hoped for
No worries, on the main channel page the channel trailer will give you the brief overview of the channel - basically its a toxic divorce and parenting recovery channel. Dating would be MUCH MORE exciting then this! But I do feel compelled to "give back" for the handful of people that really helped me survive my own personal nightmare. Thanks again for the comment - and I really did laugh so I do appreciate it! -Duane
This guy should be a top 10 divorce advice channel for men on TH-cam.
LOL I know right Johann! Who knows maybe over the course of this next year I'll get closer to that! Thank you for the support! -Duane
Duane is great for women too, anyone caught in the game of cat and mouse really.
Thank you Angela I really appreciate that!
Angela Ramsay I agree. He makes good sense.
I second that. I have really gained some great advice, not feeling so crazy seeing so many stories across the spectrum of relationships. NPD doesn't pick a gender.
I appreciate Duane also being neutral in alot of his pronoun descriptive. They, we, them, us...makes or more realistic, inclusive and approachable to all victims in general.
More power to us all!
The irony is that you have to ACT like a narcissist in order to avoid getting screwed by the narcissist. This is true at least initially. I believe once they know you are for real, their tactics back off a LITTLE. But you still have to maintain it because every now and then they will send out a "feeler" to see if you are still serious about respecting yourself.
Johann Wilder Exactly. Fight fire with fire. As much as it sucks it does work.
Johann that is an excellent point and one that complicates our recovery because we start to think that maybe we ARE a narcissist. I know that’s not really what you are saying there but it is another pitfall of this situation. If we do not modify our approach and we continue to “play nice” it just causes us more damage and trauma. -Duane
Just remember that just because you HAVE to act a certain way with your ex doesn't mean that you ARE that way! -Duane
Alright, Duane!!! I LIKE that!!! All the love and support!!
Found that out, Johann!!! Thanks for that understanding and validation!! Meant a lot to me!
It's very simple: put yourself first in life. Like on an airplane when they say, put your own mask on first, and then help the person next to you. We empaths don't understand this until we have been battered for years or decades by narcissists. But the reality is, if you take care of yourself first, you won't be appealing to narcissists in the first place. Narcs are looking to take without giving. Narcs only want empaths who prioritize others rather than themselves, so that the narc can be first at all times in a couple. I hate to sound harsh but empaths, stop prioritizing anyone else above yourself and the narcs will go away- abandon ship.
Narcissists love to blindside, so the more you learn about narcissism and the narcissists' playbook, the better you can deal and protect yourself. Learning about narcissistic supply really helped me a lot.
Very good points Mary and I had the same experiences - once we start to *learn* their power starts to diminish. -Duane
Good advice. No more nice guy. A. Don't talk to them. B. If you have business with them, go through the lawyers. C. Learn how they behave and act accordingly. When you learn this, they become easy to predict. D. Get ready for a long game. E. Make your moves when the time(s) are right and watch the narc implode.
Excellent breakdown Narcmare! I think lists like this are very important to keep us focused on what we need to do through all of this! -Duane
Your videos have seriously been my saving grace..I can’t think you enough.
Hi Adam I'm glad they are helping! -Duane
Dealing with these people is especially difficult because the dynamic is that abusers seek out people with one common characteristic: we are nice and we think of others before ourselves. So 1. it takes forever to figure out that these people are for real NOT nice people because we (say it with me now...give others the benefit of the doubt!!), and 2. WE cant be our normal nice selves, which feels wrong. So we have to 1. admit and accept that they do not see others the way we do, their goal is NOT to have a "good relationship" but to be in control, and 2. we have to be something that is foreign to us. No wonder it takes so long to figure it all out!!! Grrr! Seriously, after 32 years of abuse, I have gone from a really sweet, silver lining, kind hearted person to a tough as nails, in your face, im not taking any shit off of anybody, person. I am just now feeling like I can start to be myself again. Crazy.
You nailed it right there Debby with the underlining truth that we do get to get back to our true selves. The best part is that we can still be nice and optimistic but we can also see through the lies of toxic people. Takes a long time to get there so go for you in making it! 👍🏻 -Duane
Yes if you are nice they always take advantage or manipulate.
These videos are awesome! Keep making them!!!
Thank you Adam for the nice comment and support! I really appreciate it! -Duane
One cannot be nice with a narcissist. Instead, one has to be strictly business. The only way to beat a narcissist at their game is by becoming a full-fledged empath when engaging with the narcissist. In other words, one has to learn to put themselves in the narcissists shoes. Recently, my motto has been: what would the narcissist do? If you don't have the ability to understand the narcissist, you will continue to be screwed by the narcissist. One always has be 100 steps ahead when dealing with a narcissist. I mean one can become dependent on an attorney but attorneys can eventually hold you back in your progression and they can eventually become more of a liability than an investment. If one truly wants to become fully armored and loaded in a fight against a narcissist, one needs to become well versed in the law. The law is a fully loaded weapon that will indefinitely keep a narcissist at bay. Remember, narcissists know how to manipulate everything around them and they know how to do it very well. One of the things they know how to manipulate very well is the law and that is why they get away with everything they do. One must learn to utilize the law. One must learn that there is "positive" law just like there is "negative" law. If one does not take the time to comprehend the law then expect to live an unpleasant life. I mean it's already hard enough to know that what you experienced with this person was all a lie and it is also difficult to accept that your children will forever be used as their pawns. So why continue to let them win? Why continue to let them play with our minds and emotions? This is exactly why a few months back, I made the decision that I was opting out of the narcissist's game. I made sure to keep my emotions to myself. I quickly found ways to no longer be emotionally connected to the narcissist. Don't get me wrong. I am still human and at times I still get affected by what my narcissist does but it only lasts for a fraction of the time that it used to and then I get back on track towards working on what my next steps are to protect myself against the narcissist. Always remember, that a narcissist is very much like a dormant virus. The virus will be plotting it's next move against you so when the time is right, they will take full advantage of you so they can reap the benefits. Anyhow, everyone stay healthy, stay safe and stay strong!!!
I have to be honest Henry I wasn't entirely sure where you were going with your empath comment but after reading it I think you have an excellent point. We have to realize and recognize the difference in the way a narcissist will approach the situation. I did something similar where I thought the ex had the mentality of a teenager (I even said this in the custody evaluation but they discounted it). But when I did that I could almost always predict what she was going to do - it was annoying but also very helpful. I didn't connect the dots that she might have a personality disorder and honestly I didn't even know or understand what those were. You make an excellent point and I like the way you say you disengaged from the narcissist and no longer allowed them to have emotional control over you. I really believe that is the key to recovery from this - until we are able to do that we are stuck in this visous cycle of emotional abuse where it feels as if there is no escape. But, there is an escape and it comes from our own decision to STOP allowing them to effect us anymore. Much easier said than done - but when we get to that point it is MUCH easier and as you said the impact lasts only a fraction of the time it used to! -Duane
Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, thank you for taking the time to understand what I'm trying to say!!! I have been training myself to better communicate my viewpoint. Empathy is not a bad thing even with a narcissist. One has to understand that empathy can be used for good and evil.
This is the textbook definition of empathy:
em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
Obviously, we are not like the narcissist but we can still feel what they feel and think the way they think. We will never know why they operate the way they do because there could be one reason or many. It could also be that they were born that way or that they experienced something in their lives that have made them that way. Who knows? But you hit it right on the nose. They think very much like an immature individual and at some point we were also immature so isn't it safe to say that we can understand them without much effort?
So becoming an empath in a difficult situation with a difficult person can only make things easier. Because then you can reduce a narcissist to what they truly are.... a person who has a hard time maturing!!! Then we realize that they are not a superhuman person with superhuman strength and emotions. They are merely human just like us.
Textbook definition of mature:
ma·ture
məˈCHo͝or,məˈto͝or/
adjective
1. having completed natural growth and development
Putting yourself in the narcissists shoes is a difficult task as it requires a lot of emotional energy. I don't recommend it to individuals who have not yet emotionally healed themselves from the narcissistic abuse that they've experienced. However, I think eventually it is necessary to empathize with the narcissist and it will make life easier because then you are many steps ahead of them. I am not trying to say to feel sorry for the narcissist, I am simply saying to understand the narcissist. You see with time one will realize that a narcissist is also an empath but they use this gift for evil.
Textbook definition of empath:
em·path
ˈempaTH/
noun
(chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend the mental or emotional state of another individual.
Para•normal
Para = beyond, Normal = conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
Para + normal = beyond standard
So you see taking the time to be an empath can help one in their difficult journey with a narcissist. Know thy enemy!
Duane, I hope you don't mind me having posted up textbook definitions in this comment. The only reason why I did this is to have the exact definition of these words and to make sense of what I'm trying to convey.
I hope this post makes some sense. And I hope it is helpful to those who have reached the "no more Mr. Nice guy" phase.
Lots of positivity and peace to all the narcissistic survivors out there!!!
Dad Surviving Divorce Duane, thank you for taking the time to understand what I'm trying to say!!! I have been training myself to better communicate my viewpoint. Empathy is not a bad thing even with a narcissist. One has to understand that empathy can be used for good and evil.
This is the textbook definition of empathy:
em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
Obviously, we are not like the narcissist but we can still feel what they feel and think the way they think. We will never know why they operate the way they do because there could be one reason or many. It could also be that they were born that way or that they experienced something in their lives that have made them that way. Who knows? But you hit it right on the nose. They think very much like an immature individual and at some point we were also immature so isn't it safe to say that we can understand them without much effort?
So becoming an empath in a difficult situation with a difficult person can only make things easier. Because then you can reduce a narcissist to what they truly are.... a person who has a hard time maturing!!! Then we realize that they are not a superhuman person with superhuman strength and emotions. They are merely human just like us.
Textbook definition of mature:
ma·ture
məˈCHo͝or,məˈto͝or/
adjective
1. having completed natural growth and development
Putting yourself in the narcissists shoes is a difficult task as it requires a lot of emotional energy. I don't recommend it to individuals who have not yet emotionally healed themselves from the narcissistic abuse that they've experienced. However, I think eventually it is necessary to empathize with the narcissist and it will make life easier because then you are many steps ahead of them. I am not trying to say to feel sorry for the narcissist, I am simply saying to understand the narcissist. You see with time one will realize that a narcissist is also an empath but they use this gift for evil.
Textbook definition of empath:
em·path
ˈempaTH/
noun
(chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend the mental or emotional state of another individual.
Para•normal
Para = beyond, Normal = conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
Para + normal = beyond standard
So you see taking the time to be an empath can help one in their difficult journey with a narcissist. Know thy enemy!
Duane, I hope you don't mind me having posted up textbook definitions in this comment. The only reason why I did this is to have the exact definition of these words and to make sense of what I'm trying to convey.
I hope this post makes some sense. And I hope it is helpful to those who have reached the "no more Mr. Nice guy" phase.
Lots of positivity and peace to all the narcissistic survivors out there!!!
No worries Henry it is a really good discussion and perspective. You make a really good point that people who aren't ready shouldn't put themselves through that process - recovery from this is a slow process and there are things we can do to speed it up and things we can do to completely derail our progress. -Duaen
I am still very hurt💔👭🏳️🌈 by my ex wife, but your videos help me to overcome my pain. Thank you Duane!❤🙏🏾👍👍👍👍
They waist your time Consume your energy and think they’re entitled because they are deviants Stop waisting your time on someone who doesn’t have the capacity to understand true love but act just to get as they please I hope everyone stays blessed by swerving the bs spoonfuls don’t be the victim Know your worth
Nice gets you nowhere - it may buy a little peace for the moment but will eventually be even more hell with the "nice" stop and 1 more thing to throw at you.....
Now he is calling everyone saying that i am the one breaking the family. It is hard but i am learning and not responding . so thank you again
Another good book is “splitting” but i will tell you that when i first read it, i was at the very beginning of my D and i didn’t believe anything like that was going to happen to me, and then it all happened exactly like a pattern.
It is a pattern - and that is a good thing - because it helps us identify what we are dealing with. It also means there are proven techniques to help you deal with them! (Hybrid no contact, no contact, gray rock, absolute thinking, blackhole thinking) -Duane
Mr.x early on in our marriage used to joke abt splitting hairs, I've come to learn it is more then that 4sure!!
Love your chanel. It is helping me so much❤❤❤👍👍👍
Every time I had a breaking point, he did the honeymoon phase to reel me back in. During the honeymoon phase he would love-bomb me, tell me what I wanted to hear, pretend to be good for like 2 days or a week if I was lucky. Then he would go right back to the same crap, pushing my boundaries. I SWEAR they like pushing your boundaries constantly to subconsciously let you know they want to skate closer to the edge for a bigger risk, like having an affair. It just never seems like its enough with them.
This is coming to light,..! My pride has to go with them..getting set up for the battle..this is good..no comprimise on anything, no contact 4 sure, believer of the true and seeing thru those lies...say what? Keeping out of it ,getting protectionism for your family, right? Amen & amen brother.....his love endures forever..once and for all!
Frances Bernard here. That is why i saw it as ludicrous of a psychologist appointed by the courts instead of helping me get me more parenting time only offered more advice on how to be 'nice' to my ex. Furthermore another ludicrous thing one policeman told me was that I should play dumb while pretending not to notice what was going on. No matter what I tired to do in the situation it only ever lead to me losing more resources that could have been used to better care for my children. And so all I could do was to muddle through while resorting to at times unorthodox means to find more time to parent. What was happening was that I was being targeted period because they all saw me succeeding in any way as a threat to their own income. And so I was left with a cruel choice: Abandon my children altogether or be uncooperative around our children with him like him too. And so I always had to gauge the risks as to how doing so might affect my children. Like when being called up in the middle of the night to be told my son Jack at age 16 was sick and they were not willing to care for him and so it was my turn on their time table only. I did go over there and while doing so when outside I woke up the neighborhood with my loud voice complaining about it while hauling my son to the car and I didn't care one bit what anyone thought of me while doing so.
Absolutely true! Don't ever fall for it! It's a trap! I had even gone out of my way to leave jewelry his family had given me for him and he then turned around and accused me of "stealing" an item left to my daughter. I actually yelled at my lawyer then. So ridiculous. And disgusting. Later I realized he was really doing everything he could to cause me to give up. I could have fought this so much better. But in the end I'm so proud of myself for not crumbling. He didn't chase me away. I never left town. I got rid of his flying monkeys and I stand up for myself. It was hard at first. But now I don't even feel like I'm not being nice. I am nice! I'm no longer a victim. And I think that is really what "Mr. Nice Guy" is. He's a victim. Stop being a victim, stand up for yourself and learn how to fight back. Great advice as usual, Duane.
Excellent example Trish and you've done a great job! I know it didn't feel like it at the time and we ALL could have done things better or different if we had known. The one good thing about our stories is that there is an opportunity for someone just starting this process to *learn* about what they are dealing with and make changes that really helps them out in the long run. It's hard though when they are "playing" the victim and we're like "what"? It's confusing and then we get sucked into their crazy little game. -Duane
Spot on! put yourself first and stop being nice! They will back away. If a child is involved (like in my case). Take them to court, collect evidence and do all you can to see your child! Take no prisoners.
Yeah you have to hit hard and hit well - the only downside is if you fight back and do it wrong then all we end up doing is emboldening them and making it worse. Hope you're take no prisoners worked well - because when it does things get MUCH better!
Excellent video!
Thank you Alex I appreciate that! -Duane
After 28 years of seeing my ex as an ally, someone I could trust and who had my best interests at heart, I had trouble adjusting to the idea that she had become an adversary. My brain couldn't reconcile the things she was doing with the person I thought she was.
More likely that she was always an adversary.
My ex and I had an agreement where our son would spend the summer with me. My ex told me that our son wanted to get a summer job. I confirmed this with our son. I needed major surgery anyway, so I scheduled it for the summer, which worked out great for me because I'm a teacher. Now he is trying to say that I didn't follow the agreement because I had surgery and that's not his problem. It's very hard to be accommodating or show compassion because in the end you get punished.
Ugh Sabrina that is (unfortunately) a really good example of how devious these people can be. What I found in my situation is that I always just follow the court order because typically I would be punished some how for accommodating her. Typically for me it would be I would compromise and she would say “NO” to anything I asked for.
If he is just “saying” that you didn’t do your parenting agreement to smear you then just ignore it - that is really the main premise of the bit.ly/BlackHoleThinking video. I know it’s a struggle but the best course of action is to *think* of everything with your ex as a black hole and like you don’t even know about it. I know it’s MUCH harder to do in practice BUT I think if you have that framework in your head it “helps” you do that.
If however he is trying to make it an issues with family court (or child support services) then make sure you keep all the documentation with the arrangement. In the future I would *highly recommend* exchanging time so the time remains the same. Although I’ve *never* been able to exercise a swap of days I strongly encourage you to do it (or at least try) and again have that documentation.
Its tough though as our children get older because they are (and do) have their own lives so what do you do? I mean are you really going to tell your son he has to quite his job (that he’s probably excited about)? Any *good parent* is going to do as you did and “make the most of it”. It’s just wrong when you are *punished* for doing that.
Stay strong Sabrina - I hate to say it but bit.ly/AbsoluteThinking is the technique that really *saved me* from continuing to make those same mistakes over and over again. Believing what you know is true (that they are toxic/narcissistic) and protecting yourself is really important for healing and recovering from this type of emotional abuse. -Duane
Dont want to loose position,dealing with, action steps, children,understand believe it, parental,understand, recognize, nieve,councel,protect myself,negative behavior,crucial, trouble sign,the children= fair...
this is a good one ! one cannot make someone truly like them with the proverbial " million dollars" which is far more coveted than "nice" .
Thanks Plutoplatters and welcome to the channel! -Duane
In these cases, with toxic/disordered people it's better to be wise than nice. My toxic encounter was an old friend, not a partner, so my situation was very different and not as complicated as the situation of many others on this channel. But it was still darn difficult. Nowadays, regarding that relationship I'm not Mr Nice, I am Mr Gone. Incommunicado. M.I.A. :)
Taldinom you hit on a point that is very true - it doesn't really matter what the circumstances are the damage these people can do is incredible. Obviously having a recurring connecting like children is much more complicated but what I've found is we all go through the same emotional phases to recover from this. It really is all about perspective though. Everyone's story has a really traumatic aspect of it - some stories are worse and some are easier. However - if we could all be "Mr. Gone" that would be the best solution! Well - if we could take our children with us! -Duane
A narcissist sees your kindness as weakness. They never appreciate anything nice you do, to them, they are entitled to everyone doing everything for them, while they rip you off. If I could go back and tell myself anything, it would be "be a complete B from the start". He gained so much ground while I was sitting around trying to be 'fair'.
It is so hard. But i am here learning and getting stronger so he will not hurt me anymore. Thank you.
That is the key Andrea!
I believe that codependent people tend to fall for narcissists the most. I am a recovering codependent, I’ve made a lot of progress. You have to have a healthy self love and stop trying to win the love of a narcissist. We don’t need it! And it’s not even love. Get well, get your healing and God bless you.
Good point, when you know that you are validated by God and Him alone you don't seek validation from anyone or anything. 🙏✝️🔥🗡️
Stop all direct contact, only have contact which you can "record " Like emails Texts Etc
To them kindness is weakness
They see everything as ammo, cuz they assume you're just like them.
Also: have a complete record of all that was said why, when by whom as far as legally allowed.
My recommendation is to N E V E R, never, never, never be alone, without a recording device, with a narcissist that could even slightly have reason to do you harm.
They will lie in the most unpredictable, egregious manner that is almost impossible to predict.
Take it from someone who has given the benefit of doubt probably a dozen times too many.
Every accusation trumped the previous, until the most unthinkable happened and the narc ex wife tried accusing my wife (kids' step mom) and I of medical neglect and sexual exploitation.
Its so easy to go off course and forget their ever present agendas, especially when you get triggered and are in the reaction still.This is a great reminder, its all about the supply. This week is the first week I said no to the narc. I took a duvet against his threats. It is a duvet I bough before we lived together. I was forced to leave mid dec our home. It is in his name although we paid equally to all household outgoings month by month including the mortgage. He did not dispute this but maintained that it was tough my name was not on the mortgage so I'm not getting anything. I have bought all the furniture and all contents in the house. He would not let me take anything after forcing me out with his abusive behaviour. I am very interested in the topic, 'What happens when you say no/stand up to the Narc?' . I don't have a lawyer yet. It can be daunting because you know they don't respond reasonably to fairness for both and often feel too fraught/ strung out to accommodate their tantrum. I think though, that time away from them seems to repair a shell that emboldens us. I'm only 6 weeks into the living separation so learning as I go. As always, thanks for your videos. Now off to visit your website which I'm surprised I have not done yet. Angela x
Hi Angela, if you are in a community property state then it doesn't matter what your name is on. If he "owned" it prior to marriage then *maybe* he has a point but he'd have to fight that. Bottom line though is that these people like to use fear and intimidation to control their targets. It all really depends on how much you want to fight and what you are willing to fight for. Nothing on this is going to be easy and these people generally don't just role over and give up when you catch them on something. When you stand up to a narc generally it really enrages them and can respond like a corned animal so just be careful. This is where an attorney can be very helpful because you can direct all communication through them and take "some" of the emotions out of the equations. Unfortunately things will be conflicted until one side runs out of money and there ins't anything else to fund the *arguing* but if you're dealing with a NPD you have limited options because they just won't be reasonable - at least THEIR attorney will advise them on what is realistic - BUT - again keep in mind that typically a attorney will do their job (what their client wants) until there isn't any money left and then they give them the final options to stop. Fortunately in my situation funds were limited so it too about 7 months to reach that point. -Duane
Omg. This is so true. Now that i am moving foward and getting stronger. He became the best dad. And now my youngest child keep asking me to do not leave him . so now he is using her to try to keep me around. And i am feeling guilty. 😳
Andrea Causley yes this is what they do. They use any tool to keep you engaged in drama with them. It is beyond believable.
Andrea Causley How disgusting to use your own child against you. Mine did the same accept was saying I was the abusive one. Hang in there. I went through hell and I'm so much better since I left him. He had me trapped for years. Please stay strong. Once you're free you'll see what I'm talking about. Duane gives amazing advice.
Oh god - that's just wrong. Fortunately I was discarded (even though I left) so that wasn't done. I know realistically the idea that he has become the best dad is probably just love bombing and untrue but *maybe* there is a chance that he will do right by your daughter but you need to communicate with her that just isn't going to happen. But talk about a way to triangulate with your children - I thought mine was bad and I hadn't even thought of that possibility. Andrea here's the deal - lets say hypothetically that *maybe* he doesn't have a personality disorder. If you both together are toxic then it's the same thing and you guys shouldn't continue to live in that environment together. The reason I say this is because if he "tries" to change and may even demonstrate on some level that he has changed you can be "tricked" into returning to the relationship. Honestly I think it is a risk that just isn't worth taking. Once someone has exposed their "true selfs" to you and what they are capable of doing you have to remember that - how can you think they would't do it again or something different. Just be *very* careful and safe about whatever course of action you decide to take. But don't do ANYTHING with him just because of guilt - because that was probably the weapon of choice for controlling you before. -Duane
thank you! you have no idea how these videos are helping. 😳❤
That is really great to hear Andrea! -Duane
You're right when you say they don't want to be reasonable or negotiate. A month and a half ago I sent her a proposal for separation agreement/settlement through my lawyer and she still hasn't responded. Looks like I'll have no choice but to bring her in mediation which might just end up being a waste of money because she's not mature enough to be fair. They seem to really love dragging things on, they must get narc supply from that
its a game BUT you dont realise your playing the game, i heard a perfect explanation on another post ,and I quote " your do not realise your playing this evil game of tennis YOUR NOT your the Ball,your not even in this game your just the object that gets whacked back and forth and another ball can be used ,your not important,your easily replaced by another ball" It's hard to comprehend but it is in fact true. They are playing the game with themselves your feelings and you do not matter,.just winning its all they care about.
Great vid! This one is going in the play list.
If we still have dysregulation it's very difficult to put up boundaries or effectively manipulate back, be assertive, take back Control or stand your ground. You were more hybrid grey rock and I was more force it back on them but only for the important issues or just say a firm no and then no Contact straight away. Now I Think it's a proogression. You need to be able to grey rock them, no Contact them to gain some Control and not get sucked in. I was forced to be Contact person during visitation for a while last year(Court is too expensive)and I quite rapidly lost the ability to be assertive with her and found myself needing to go no Contact, hybrid grey rock again Before I could deal with her. It's tricky though because if you push all the issues they are just getting supply and pulling you in again. Only one issue and they push and pull,switch and bait up and down, round and round until you get dizzy. It's not hoovering but rapid dysregulation. Now I am back to assertive and can merely draw back when needed and reply"you will have to talk to my lawyer"..
Chris it is really easy to get dragged back into the pit of despair and I think we’ve all been through this - we let our guard down and they are able to creep back in. It is completely against our nature to keep up the fight and the walls but unfortunately that is what we have to do with these people. If they can get in through a cracked door they will do all the damage they can. That is one great thing about having an attorney is that you can just stay “talk to my lawyer” like you said. That really does help. -Duane
Absolutely Dwayne but here in Canada I couldn’t access help anywhere, he went straight into parental alienation. It’s been nasty!🥶🇨🇦
Very fitting very helpful video. Ex keeps trying to get into a text/email war with me about "you're not even nice anymore!?!"
Nope... Mr. Nice guy is dead. But what is funny to me and her thinking I'm not nice, is that I'm not mean to her at all. I'm absolutely grey rock with her. I don't say anything nasty or nice. Yet she thinks that is mean.
The ONLY thing i talk to her about is the immediate well being of our daughter. If its not immediate, the discussion waits or doesn't happen but it's always on my terms. Nothing personal ever gets discussed and i keep the convo as short as possible.
Finally becoming aware of the covert narc was the best thing for me.
You're trying to find logic where there is none. She's just testing you. This is an old comment so you'd probably figure that out. Best!
Went Through a surprise ambush divorce and she ended up with debt. Narcissistic behavior was in it for the thrill and she lost everything. Turned the kids against me and now they are little narcs like her
It is so covert to deal with them on anything. My "husband" just abandon me, our household not even one word leaving, and in a full-pathological lying to anyone he spoke to[ mostly other sick people ] enablers, right in the middle of chapter 13, I just paid off his Visa and bank loan, and he missed the hearing so it is being dismissed, meaning the house goes back into foreclosure, I am packing a 2,700 sq foot house, double garage, packed to the brim, and shed by myself, my youngest daughter "quit" her job in Michigan to fly home and help me, trying to sell a house when he would never do that nor sign the house.........more then narcissism, he is bipolar/self medicating and none of this would go on without his sick enablers hiding him and causing us all this financial loss and pain no attorney, I can not afford it.
I am dealing with a narcassist ex. He lives here and another country. When he text me i answer when i feel like it, and trust me it is no more than 5 words. When he asks a question, i answer yes or no with no explanation. I am too busy with my own life to give him any time more than i have to. You unfortunately,have to limit words with them. I am confortable doing it,it is not a game,it is reality to keep myself sane.
How would you suggest getting past the guilt that was instilled in you during the marriage? TheNPD will trigger it every chance she/he gets. Guilting/blaming has been the major control tool and it is very difficult to move beyond its grip.
That is a great question Penelope Lambson! If you have a therapist I would definitely recommend working on a strategy with them. Minus that I would say review the Hybrid No Contact video and try to incorporate that into your communication. The next thing would be, when she starts doing that, in your mind actually say it (in your head) "she's trying to guilt me again, to trigger me and put me down". Oftentimes when you can take a pause and acknowledge what is going on it can put an "interrupt" and stop YOU from falling for their trap. If that doesn't work then I'd recommend hypnosis (like the ones I recommend on my website) or something like EMDR (with your therapist - if you have one).
The thing is if we don't get those triggers under control they will continue to effect us. For instance when I first did "no contact" having that break from her made me feel MUCH better. But the reality is that I hadn't healed from anything so when I was physically around her all that confidence and growth that I *thought* I had shattered. The main thing is all of this takes time and it takes time to master these skills. Its like of like you can't expect to be a pro golfer the first time you hit the course. Everything in life takes practice and work and this is no different. The only problem is we don't get to chose to do this - we HAVE to do it - which makes it even more complicated.
DSD I so much appreciate your taking time to respond. Thank you. I’m familiar with EMDR.
Again, spot on. There is no support groups for Narc victims like AA. So sad.
great video
Thanks +Ted I appreciate that! -Duane
I thought is was spite but he would turn it around and say Im spiting him.
Damages....just to have understanding I tell you what happened...I had to refund the pearl earrings that I bought for her as gift to have money,so I could afford attorney consultation....
Thank you have recently encounter every word youve said about narc. This guy we' ve been dated for two years he discarded me on doing nothing, men that guy tortured me a lots , all i saw on face book last week he was marring someone with my same name and looks . He was in his weeding whilst i was watching him live he still texted me till naw he wamted us to have a chat. Before when i didnt kmow anything about narc i should have meet with him since watching diffirent video i refused to meet with him. It hard sorry the text is long to read however thank you for helping me
They let you down every time. In general. The narcs. I will get out. TY. All true.
should have titled your channel, surviving narcissistic divorce.......;)
Lol +Rustyhands that is a really good point! Welcome to the channel! -Duane
I tried to coordinate with my Ex contact with the child, because I did not want to go through the Courts, I soon realised this was a mistake. She used this time to fabricate allegations in preparation for any Court case. Example: She followed me with electronic camera (Mobile Phone) looking for chances to record anything that could later be described as abuse
if they play tricks on you - my brother did it at the armee... he sat down , lightened a candle and started reading every time they attached him... they stopped - didn't want to listen to it.... that was 30 years ago - I guess if you would start reading out loud of a narcissistic book might help as well.... :D they will think you are nuts but will take off bother somebody else.... of course that doesn't work at work but it certain situations just act like you're out of your mind ... ;)
After all, they get more crazy.
You are an amazing person thanks for a mans perspective. I feel like you in many instances. I have been fooled for years.
a Narcisse would want it to be simple
The answers:yes,no or "k" is my friend😊
You have to react as a roc as they are. Just do it, carefully.
Well done
no more of what what you calls us , you have one name we several names , Life time of Abuse
Wow
Duane, I came to realise that my Ex is a Pathological Liar and an NPD. Please tell me do they ever turn on the Kids ? Do they get worse, like more mentally ill ? At the moment She seems to get a feed by listening to my young Son speak to me on the Telephone ! ! Chris . . . UK
I like your videos and the information you share but l m not going to change who l am because of them! I like to be nice and gentle because that's who l am you just have to learn who doesn t deserve it and learn to grow teeth with people who wants to mess with you! In the end this is what this people want that we become narcissists!
Have no idea what a narcissist is....ill look it up, been yrs since I was divorced so idk why I am watching, lol......but ill watch
My divorce was pretty simple....no kids and she made more money so was pretty smooth I guess......still sucked but good as I could have hoped for
No u r not stronger
Why does this guy always talk about narcissism? I thought he was a dating coach.
Omg that was hilarious. I don’t think anyone ever called me a dating coach before.
Lol. Sorry, Dad's Surviving Divorce. Now I know...
No worries, on the main channel page the channel trailer will give you the brief overview of the channel - basically its a toxic divorce and parenting recovery channel. Dating would be MUCH MORE exciting then this! But I do feel compelled to "give back" for the handful of people that really helped me survive my own personal nightmare. Thanks again for the comment - and I really did laugh so I do appreciate it! -Duane