While I understand that you would never want to brigade anyone, especially not an independent writer, her emotional response to the media in question is not an excuse for making a false accusation against the show. Regardless of circumstances, we are responsible for our own actions. Her false accusations can cause serious damage to the show.
Is also seems that it got to the writers of the series and one of them posted on instagram. But regardless, I am pretty sure she doesn't have basis for suing, 1899 was being written and in creation a year before her comic even came out. She just seems to be very very stubborn, which I can understand. Doesn't make it right tho.
Please don't give her more attention. No matter her motivation she's winning by getting this PR. She already won by getting you to read and mention her here over apparently baseless claims.
To be honest I think it's important to talk about due to the issue of 'when is something plagiarism' being very important. Sure it sucks to give baseless claims attention but this is not a one-off issue, just look at YMS Kimba. This is not the first or last time plagiarism will be brought up, especially in fantasy, it's a decades-old issue that should be talked about, even about baseless claims.
Neil Gaiman once wrote: ----- "I was surprised to discover from yesterday's [Daily] MIRROR that I'm meant to have accused J.K. Rowling of ripping off BOOKS OF MAGIC for HARRY POTTER. Simply isn't true -- and now it's on the public record it'll follow me around forever. Back in November I was tracked down by a Scotsman journalist who had noticed the similarities between my Tim Hunter character and Harry Potter, and wanted a story. And I think I rather disappointed him by explaining that, no, I certainly *didn't* believe that Rowling had ripped off Books of Magic, that I doubted she'd read it and that it wouldn't matter if she had: I wasn't the first writer to create a young magician with potential, nor was Rowling the first to send one to school. It's not the ideas, it's what you do with them that matters. Genre fiction, as Terry Pratchett has pointed out, is a stew. You take stuff out of the pot, you put stuff back. The stew bubbles on.
I'm brazilian and i think this controversy is so weird. I have watched the show and read the comic, and the plots, characters and stories are completely different. Aside from a few visual elements, like a pyramide (wich the author of the comic wasn't the first one to use in a sci fi series), there's not a solid reason to call plagiarism. My guess is that the author hadn't watched the series, someone sent her the images comparing the works and she immediately felt she was robbed and made the thread. The thing is that the brazilian community is going through this twitter mob mentality where they are attacking anyone who says there wasn't plagiarism, even though many of them have not even consumed both series. This reminds me of the "lion king ripped off kimba the white lion" controversy, wich YMS completely debunked on youtube simply because he was the only one who actually consumed both works lol.
quando eu vi essa merda no twitter eu ja pensei "essa pessoa quer mt atenção" e ela conseguiu trocentos likes de gnt q nem leu a porra do quadrinho dela .-.
Não é só sobre as pirâmides. Tem muitos pontos em comum, personagens, nomes, tecnologias específicas, arcos de história, twists, etc. E vocês realmente não sabem o que é plagio
@@FelipeKana1 mano, vc assistiu a série e leu o quadrinho? Pq a história e os personagens são completamente diferentes. Os elementos parecidos são só tropes de histórias de ficção que vc acha em qualquer obra desse tipo. Se vc acha que isso é plágio, então game of thrones é plágio de senhor dos anéis
Multicultural crew can even be attributed to Moby Dick & Treasure Island. We've been telling variations of the same tales forever because the collective therapy we experience through them is important to the human experience.
almost everything written in the last few years for mainsteam media has multicultural cast, even period dramas, so that's the weakest argument in her case imo.
I think alot of authors ignore "creative osmosis" when it come to their own works. How much sci-fi in the last 40 years can honestly claim absolutely zero influence from Star Trek, Star Wars, Bladerunner, Alien, Akira, Ghost in the Shell? Even if these works were not actively in the mind of the author/creator, they still form the modern dna and impression of sci-fi. No author truly creates in creative vacuum and modern creators stand on the shoulders of giants whether they know it or not.
I started writing a Sci Fi book when I was a tenneager and I got discouraged when i saw that my ideas already existed in other works. I didn't want people to accuse me of stealing ideas, so I stopped writing. Later I started writing a fantasy novel, which I thught will be original, but I encountered the same problem. Even characters that I completely made up, with speciffic traits, backgrounds and motivations turn out to already exist, if you search enough.
@@scratchy996 You shouldn't be discouraged. many successful filmmakers and writers make peace with not being the first to think of things and end up paying homage to a lot of those classic artforms.
Not even just sci-fi. The "Eragon" novel is basically a beat-by-beat fantasy reskinning of Star Wars - and it was hugely successful too, at one point dethroning Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix in the bestseller charts
I discovered 1899 because I showed the back cover blurp of a novel called 'Eversion' to a friend, and he went "this sounds a lot like 1899." The novel was written by Alastair Reynolds. According to second-hand source on Reddit, he didn't start even "thinking about" the novel until AFTER the pilot for 1899 was already written. The time it took to greenlight and produce '1899' meant that the novel and '1899' came out just few months apart. Without spoiling too much, 'Eversion' has such major similarities with '1899' that (at least, based on first season) lot of people would probably believe the latter is a very loose or inspired adaptation, if they were told so. Some people also commented thinking this was some kind of collaboration.
I wasn't that much of a fan of season 3, but Dark S2 is one of the best seasons of television imo, super inventive and overall great. Might check out this new one.
we only have one season of 1899 for now, maybe it will be 10/10 at the end too. After the first season I think we still don't understand like 90% of stuff really going on, so rating it already is kind of pointless.
My first thought was immediatly, that I cant believe that. I mean sometimes you get surprised when you dig deeper, but the screenwriter of 1899 Jantje Friese and her partner are such a passionate filmmaking couple. They made DARK, an absolute masterpiece and though I dont love 1899 as much it's still amazing how much work they put into that. Their love for detail is impeccable
The girl is also an passionate creator. Small, from Brazil, for years trying for a spotlight. Sees several of her original elements being used point by point in a big show. Must be "fun". The couple from 1899 has to explain themselves, at least. Their claim that they never even saw her comic cannot be true, since some of her panels definitely ended up in the storyboard and the writers room.
@Felipe Carvalho ...you have not seen this video, do you? By her claim, she can be accused to have stolen from Event Horizon or Star Trek or any other SciFi media in the last years... If she wants attention, this is the wrong way.
@@FelipeKana1 did you not watch this video? They don't need to explain themselves. I watched Dark and it's one of my favorite series, mostly because the writing is so brilliant. The writers have so much innate creativity they wouldn't need to borrow/steal from others. There are just some themes that are universal and appear in all sorts of stories. The images in the video Daniel posted that are similar in both are pretty universal types of imagery. Just like images in her comic are mirror images of scenes in Event Horizon. That just means she also used themes that are somewhat universal.
@@FelipeKana1 They are not original though, that's the whole point. Hell, the helmet shot of the woman is not even a thing in 1899, she's not wearing one. You cannot claim ownership of a framing angle or interstellar crews wearing helmets.
This is terrible on more than one level. First, this writer crying wolf, even if proven wrong, has already won with the publicity. The viewership of her work has probably exploded several thousand percent over this nonsense, and by the time it’s all said and done, so many people will know her work that she’ll get a movie deal from Netflix. And even more tragically, she’s accusing of plagiarism the writers of Dark. Dark!! The show that probably took a warehouse-sized whiteboard just to map out. Of all the hacks in the movie industry who probably do indeed plagiarize, how could she accuse these guys? And, more importantly, how could anyone believe her? It’s just infuriating.
What I find particularly infuriating is the way she's weaponizing her Brazilian identity, victimizing herself and using this to stoke the flames of nationalism among her army of fellow braindead Brazilians who also want to be seen as victims. Really pathetic behavior honestly.
@@stoneheart8231 i would agree with you if not for your disrespect against my people… There is certainly some mob mentality going on here, but do not state that my people is “braindead”, learn to respect others.
@@isabellearaujo8991 By "her army of fellow braindead Brazilians" I certainly don’t include the entire population of 214 million citizens, just the most gullible, easily-fooled, self-absorbed nationalists that roam twitter. And even though I’ve seen some of these moronic tweets reach almost 1mil likes, that’s still just a small minority in the grand scheme of things. After seeing how her followers behave online, I have no respect for them or for her. Hope she gets sued for all she’s worth, so that her fanatics can see the truth.
Also playing the identity politics game. Like bruv you don't own diversity. Imagine thinking that using a certain skin color/(multi) cultural group identity in another story besides your own equals to plagiarism. It's actually like these why people often get tired of people who push these aspects of their marketing rather than on: How is your character relatable and what's their struggle on the journey?
I was not aware of this until yesterday, when Quinn did some coverage on this. If anything, all of this just made me more interested to check out 1899. It's been on my radar for a bit, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. That being said, your gut reaction is, I think, pretty normal and something that a lot of people also have. It's kind of natural to immediately want to side with a slighted creator against a large company, but this should serve as a reminder that it's probably a good idea to wait until we have all the details before flying into a rage on social media. Obligatory comment about Twitter mobs.
I would like to point out something regarding the implied similarities. I haven't read the comic, just went through it briefly so correct me if i'm wrong, but it is assumed there is indeed a black pyramid in the story right? Because the "pyramid" in 1899 isn't even a pyramid. It's a tetrahedron. A pyramid has a square as a base, tetrahedron has identical triangles on all sides. Regarding that, I recently read a very interesting comment analysing the show. Turns out it being a tetrahedron IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE STORY. I will try to paraphrase some of the analysis here and add some stuff too. SPOILERS FOR 1899 BELOW A tetrahedron is something what is called a "platonic solid" (pls google the proper definition of it because I'm afraid I won't explain it correctly). What you need to know is that only 5 of them exist. Apparently platonic solids are used frequently in today's technology, for example in electronics and geophysical modeling. Therefore they also play a major role in how things can be created in SIMULATIONS. What's more, when I researched the platonic solids myself I found out another interesting fact. Plato connected each classical element to a solid that is supposedly similar to the shape of their atoms. And he assigned tetrahedron to FIRE. How is fire relevant in the story? In Greek mythology, the titan PROMETHEUS stole fire from gods to give it to people, and he was severely punished for it, going through a REPEATED nightmare (like Daniel pointed out). The show told us (at least for now) that Moura was trying to "become the Creator" aka "play God" to make a new reality, new "better" world and then she got punished for it by being stuck in an never ending loop. We get even more connections to Plato since her whole idea of the simulation was based around the "platonic cave". On top of that, throughout the show we have a lot of other triangle imagery. Particularly the upside down triangle with a line at the bottom - that is actually a symbol used in alchemy to represent earth. And COINCIDENTALY (or not) the symbol used for fire is - a regular triangle. All this stuff honestly still blows my mind and makes me believe the showrunners had to REALLY do a ton of research to shape out the story.
Well, even less probability of being plagiarized now. Who researches so hard and weaves these themes and symbolism together... just to plagiarize another work?
I enjoyed the heck out of 1899. Yeah, it's using some very tried-and-true (and occasionally silly) genre conceits... but in a slick and interesting way, just like DARK did. Remains to be seen if we will get the insane level of plot layering that DARK gave us, but I can definitely see the path for 1899 to do that. And I LOVED the very international cast with all the language barrier/figuring out how to communicate angles.
Honestly would've been a bit more interesting if the language barrier bothered the characters a little more. They all seemed to just be fine with it, like they've been scripted to get along. While realistically 1988 wasn't the most progressive of times and not being able to communicate during stressful situations would definitely cause some drama. Think of all the missed potential on non verbal acting and funny hand gestures.
@@tompaauwe4565 I was thinking the same til i realized that those people are chosen for a reason. I think their behavior isnt like most normal humans but they went through things that changed them. i wish i can make u understand but my english is shit haha
I completely share your opinion on this topic! I immediately watched 1899 when it came out since I was very excited for a mystery show written and produced by authors from my own country. I was more than happy that Germany is finally stepping up their game in the film industry and I wasn’t disappointed by the show. it’s not a 10/10 for me but I liked it a lot and I was quite shocked about the entire controversy that went on afterwards…thanks for using your reach in order to share a very relevant opinion. I also think that the usage of the triangle or pyramid as a symbol is something that happens in many fictional stories…to me it just gave me the association to the bermuda triangle but giving a different spin on it without giving away too much about the plot of 1899. In my opinion it is clearly not plagiarized, there are influences from myths, legends and popular tropes but that is something that happens in literally 90% of fiction…
Black silence is free online for a long time, way before the show was announced. She made it avaliable online, btw. Not all press is good press if it doesn't means money.
True! I left that comment before I got to the part where he said it was free. I imagine it was an effort to get more attention to her work. Given the evidence Daniel provided, it seems illogical to claim plagiarism
Yeah she gets Attention now. But i guess she can not grasp the real cost. Having Business Issues, going to Court is one thing. Total normal. But making impulsive Tweets with little to no evidence, while she had to assume a Twitter Mob will against these none "Brazilian", "gringo" Authors and bully them another. Who wants to work with such Artist? She is a grown women not some uncontrollable teenager.
The comic book being free on her webpage has me thinking that this entire thing was just a publicity stunt to get people to read it- which isn't gonna work out well for her at all when Netflix sues for defamation lol.
That is why I did not read it but googled it to see what the comic was about. Basically this kind of stupid stunt makes me avoid at all costs this kind of 'art' that tries to steal attention to successful artists.
I don't think this was a marketing move. This was an irresponsible tweet, from someone that genuinely thought was stole, in the "heat of the moment", before asking other people's opinion. Before cooling down and analysing the situatio with a fresh mind. Now she there is a chance she faces consequences. Lesson: do not tweet when your shocked and upset, wait a little to cool down, think before tweet. Maybe she would've still tweeted about it, but choosing better words, and another tone.
I met Brandon Sanderson at a con and I said to him that split the movie copied his legion idea. He said it's almost impossible now to write a story that is completely original and that his story could also be considered copy. Can't remember the book he referred to as being the "original idea"
@@FelipeKana1 The directors created DARK, which is one of the complex series of all time. They don't need to copy others ideas. If this was Jantjes and Bos debut I might have doubts, but no. There are no key elements that are completely new. By the way ... Marys multilingual crew does not speak in their mother tougues, or did I miss that?
The bible? Everyone who uses a multipe personas in one person and calls it Legion is referencing the bible, even if they are not aware of it. And its not like thats the only thing authors have lifted from the bible. Its really hard to be original in a world where the bible exists.
That's the most off-putting part of these accusation for me, i feel like weaponizing multiculturalism leaves a really bitter aftertaste. And to think that it's an original idea when it's an existing universal concept is strange
@@FelipeKana1 ah yes, like one of the panels of the comics being _literally_ traced from a still from Mad Max: Fury Road? What next, is the author gonna sue Egypt for having pyramids?
@@FelipeKana1 Jfc, you really spammed these lies everywhere in the comment section...Are you aware at this point, that NO, NONE of the names, arcs, deaths, plot points, or panels are even remotely the same? At all? Or are you still blissfully unaware? The comic artist ended up deleting her twitter in shame after she got caught in her lies, lol. Meanwhile she is the one who actually plagarized an entire shot of Mad Max in one of her comics, lol.
People should not be punished for being wrong forever especially if they apologized. But, they should be held accountable if they made public accusations that directly affect somebody.
1000%. It would be one thing if she made this accusation to a group of friends and that's where it ended. But this could end the careers of two incredible writers (who very much did not commit any plagiarism) and also negatively ripples into everyone involved in 1899, especially those on-camera. A person can be wrong, but being wrong is not without consequences. Should she be getting threats? No. Should she be getting sued for defamation? Absolutely.
@@lovefromshirley And you can see quite many comments saying how they decided not to watch 1899 because of this whole accusation. Meanwhile one of the two big thread accusing 1899 got deleted by the author without any correction so those who received the news from that post likely don't even know how ppl are now saying comic is nothing like the show.
it’s so sad how many people who didn't watch the show and didn't read the comic unconditionally believed in plagiarism and thoughtlessly spread it in twitter… at least check information but no instead people choose to spread misinformation 😔
Because then they'd have to spend several hours of their time fact checking by reading and watching the whole show. That's too much work. Easier to just grab a pitchfork and go. And it's not just Netflix here, thefre are real writers who are needlessly dragged into a controversy that simply doesn't exist. The people defending her must not be familiar with science fiction genre at all, or plagiarism laws.
"People shouldn't be punished for being wrong"... but they SHOULD be punished, or at the very least publicly rebuked until they withdraw their accusation, for falsely accusing someone else of doing improper things. Particularly on Twitter when you can almost guarantee a mob of idiots spurred on by this did immediately send attacking tweets at Netflix, and most likely the writers of 1899 as well.
Jantje Friese, one of the authors, deleted her instagram account, most probably because of all the not very nice messages she received. The moment more people came out saying that the 2 works are nothing alike, the Black Silence author followers started saying she never said the stories were the same but just elements. When others made them notice that the author did write in the tweet that 1899 is "simply identical" to her comic, they were like "why are you latching on that one tweet??" as if that wasn't what started this mess. It's never ending.
Especially if the consequences of them being wrong are nothing to sneeze at, like launching an angry Twitter mob at some innocent people. Also she seems to have acted with reckless disregard for the truth. Either she's knowingly lying, or she didn't even watch 1899. Who the hell claims their work is being plagiarised, when they haven't even consumed the piece of media that they say is plagiarising their work?
She didn't falsely accused. There are enough similarities to make any author feel stolen. If those similarities are enough, it's up to the law, but the authors saying that they never even saw her comic before doesn't looks ok, because they sure used some of her panels in their storyboard
@@FelipeKana1 Are you assuming Daniel is bad faith here? I am definitely going to read the comic first and compare, but Daniel has no real reason to be bad faith. The popular opinion currently is to side with the author of Black Silence. Everyone I have talked to who has read/watched both agreed that the similarities were minute or just general sci fi stuff.
Reading the reactions to that tweet made it pretty obvious many of those hundreds thousands who liked it either didn't read the comic or watched the show (or neither of the two options). I can understand a first knee jerk reaction since Netflix is involved, but so many seriously are going along with the narrative that the two works are identical, and it's just ridiculous. It also looks like the author didn't actually watch the serie herself but asked her followers to tell her what similarities they found....? Not sure about this though, correct me if i'm wrong.
I'm definitely sympathetic to an author feeling defensive over their work, but claiming basic visuals and tropes as proof of "plagiarism" is not only arrogant (bc many tropes are about as old as humanity itself is), but deeply concerning given how many people are blindly agreeing with it. The whole rationale of the argument being that tropes and visual elements are enough to claim plagiarism spits on a core tenet of storytelling. It's like calling Star Wars a Dune rip-off because both feature space magic, politics, a desert planet, and a messiah-type figure, when anyone who's read Dune and watched 1 Star Wars movie know they take those tropes in vastly different directions. Tropes are the foundation for a story, and lots of stories can share them, the way architects all use the same pool of materials to make buildings. But even so, you wouldn't confuse say, the Empire State Building in New York with the Lotte World Tower in Seoul, let alone accuse the architects who designed it of plagiarizing one another.
I think this BS copyright claim directly influenced Netflix's decision to cancel the series. Shame on them and shame on the author of the graphic novel.
I mean, before throwing accusations around I don’t think it’s a harsh requirement to require people to actually think about it more than a second. It’s not the first ridiculous claim of plagiarism, and it probably won’t be the last, but I can’t excuse someone who accuse someone else that easily. To attack someone of committing a crime shouldn’t be done that lightly without prof on a social platform.
She succeeded at making people read her comic. I guess I'm going to do the same when I publish my comic. I'm going to accuse some popular show to gain attention.
@@bryanmitchell78 Probably. People are just emboldened these days by the mob mentality on social media but don't bother studying what it means copyright infringement. Plenty of artists like Mary herself have borrowed from previous works and yet dare to claim someone has stolen from them. As if Multiple discovery, archetypes or tropes are not a thing.
don't forget the "it is so hard for an author from [insert region] to be heard" part. which is quite ironic because it's not like german shows have it that easy on international markets
I'm a brazillian and I pretty sure she didn't watch the show, because if she had she would see that there's very little resemblance with her comic. But since we used to defend our own (we have our reasons) the buzz in twitter will continue and some people will die swearing on their lives that it was plagiarism.
No, there is way too much resemblance. Elements that she created in her book were used, as they were, the show just mixed a bit the context. Characters, names, arcs, deaths, technologies... even a few of her panels surely ended up in the storyboard. That IS plagiarism and is way too much, even if the show mixes other stuff
@@FelipeKana1 By your logic she also plagiarized all the authors she took inspiration from and just changed a few things. Her work isn’t original 🤷🏻♀️
@@FelipeKana1 You clearly haven't watched the show + read the comics. I suggest doing that before making these claims so that you can see how little merit they have.
@@FelipeKana1 Literally not true. None of the characters, deaths, arcs, names, or technology are remotely the same. Why are you trying so hard to spread this misinfo when you clearly haven't read the comic nor watched the show?
@@FelipeKana1 I just curious, do you do any kind of "proper" research before speaking about the matter, or you only take in what other show you and don't care about the legitimate of it?
A lot people online, have also commented how her graphic novel is basically a copy and paste of Event Horizon and Dead Space. With her logic though, then the creators of Russian Doll plagiarized The Edge of Tomorrow and Happy Death Day, and the creators of Parrellels and Secrets of Sulphur Springs plagiarized Dark. By the Way... Outstanding video.... A lot of outragers need to watch this and realize... They've jumped to conclusions.
Worth noting too that pyramids are literally the most secure, easiest architectural form you can build to any decent size without fear of collapse. This is why they are so common. For the same reason that when you let sand fall from your hand it forms into a hill with the same incline as a pyramid. Not to mention that black pyramids and "cyclopian" architecture is a direct ripoff of Lovecraft stories.
I watched 2 episodes, and skimmed through a few pages of the graphic novel. I can already say that the two are very different. Reminds me of the Fine Bros trying to copyright / trademark reacting on TH-cam. lol Maybe she only wanted some pr, well, she's successful.
Yeah, just skimmy through and completely ignore the point. Great idea. Hope you don't get chosen for jury duty never. Not first time Netflix getting away with this. Star Trek Discovery did similar bs too. Pick new and well developed elements from other stories, use names, characters, arcs, deaths, plot points, technologies... but change the setting or something and let your legion of fans do the "work"
@@FelipeKana1 Have you watched the show or read the book? If yes, then please point actual similarities and not just common tropes. If not, then just shut the F up. No need of being the hero of Justice here without any true understanding of the situation. Again, if you do have something, then do tell.
Wow. This is wild. I just finished 1899. I hadn't heard about this yet. That's really too bad. I hope that this doesn't kill a chance of another season. I read that the writers were hoping for multiple seasons. I would really like to see where it's going.
This is why, as someone who loves both works, I really hate it when people say that Inception "ripped off" Satoshi Kon's Paprika. One is a surrealist detective mystery with a love for film and social commentary woven into it. The other is Ocean's Eleven with multiple Matrix's stacked on top of each other, based on a script that Christopher Nolan started writing ten years before he filmed it.
Some aspects of the show's design (black inverted pyramids, strange crystaline growths, people in a trance state, red lightning, the furnace...) remind me a lot of the videogame Control but I would never imagine calling that plagiarism.
btw I could make that list of similarities a lot longer, anyone who consumed both these pieces of media would agree, yet they are a completely different thing.
I heard about this and honestly didn't think much about the claim. I think my main disappointment with the show was that I was looking for some Lovecraftian sea horror, what I got was simulation scifi. Overall the show isn't bad just not what I wanted. The tropes they play with are nothing new to sci-fi. I think Mary is going to make a fool out of herself if she goes for legal action.
My suspicion regarding the bjg reveal in the finale is they're still trapped in a simulation and... Ultimately maybe there isn't a simulation at all, but something much profound and reality shattering.
I understand what you're saying about the Lovecraftian aspect. In a way, I don't like the futuristic element because I like the period aspect and the ominous stuff like the pyramid. However, I'm happy that that hasn't really affected my enjoyment of it. I still like it a lot and can't wait to see more.
That’s very interesting. Incidentally enough, when I finished 1899 it reminded me a lot of the novel Eversion by Alastair Reynolds. I think that just adds to you point about their being common tropes to this genre.
It's not just the tropes. There are full on new ideas in the comic that were reused in the show. As well as plot points, characters, names, panels as storyboard, deaths...
My thoughts exactly! I'm only halfway through 1899 but I was immediately reminded of Eversion (Although I do hope the story is not heading in the same direction)
I liked the first 2 seasons of 'Dark' immensely, and '1899' was created by the same team, exploring similar narrative terrain. The series quite obviously took a great deal of inspiration from an indie film called 'Triangle', released well over a decade ago. 'Triangle' also featured an (almost) empty luxury liner caught in a time-loop, a mother who was trying to escape the memory of what she did to her own child, and scenes in which the results of the various causality loops coalesce in dramatic fashion: in '1899', we see a harbor packed with hundreds of iterations of the same doomed ship; in 'Triangle', we find hundreds of corpses, all of them versions of the same murdered redhead. They also differ in many, many ways, but I'll refrain from entering that spoiler-rich territory. Both '1899' & 'Triangle' are well worth the time, especially given the desolate landscape that the Netflix home-page has become of late. Taking inspiration from a film, using it as a springboard for new ideas in the way '1899' does, is nothing to be ashamed of; writers will be taking inspiration & outright stealing from '1899' soon enough. '1899' is a solid 7.5/10; at times predictable, it sometimes meanders & bogs down, but overall it's a fun story. 'Dark' seasons 1 & 2 are a bit better, averaging out at a 7.8/10. I'd give 'Triangle' a 7.0/10. As for this shitty comic author looking to promote her work by tearing down someone else's: shut the fuck up. Coincidences happen all the fucking time; we instinctually mistrust coincidences, but we logically have to acknowledge that they exist & they happen.
The thing that's even more sad is that this show is produced by the same creative Duo that made Dark, and they have complete creative freedom and poured all their heart and effort into its production. Now they get hate online so much that Jantje Friese even disabled her Instagram account, all because of a selfish author who wanted to grab some fame from 1899's success with her delusion...
I had no idea this was going on and just finished 1899, it was extremely bingeable and I enjoyed it a lot! I hope you'll put up a review of the show as well, i'm interested to hear more of your thoughts on it ^^
I think the fact that the "plagiarisms" are so surface level and very easily coincidental, and the fact that the creators claim to have not even heard of the comic, kinda goes to show that it is just that: a coincidence. Why would they lie about something so surface level that you could only just make the 'inspired by' argument?
Possibly if the accusation did actually make ppl not watch the show in the first place. It's more likley that the show failed to meet the profit threshold compared to how much money it was spent to make it.
It's such a reckless accusation made on a public medium, which has snowballed at an insane rate which has greatly coloured the reporting of the show that has little to no merit, and she has not retracted her statement, at this point it is starting to come off as malicious. Also, this is getting covered by some pretty popular entertainment sites worldwide by now, right after it has released worldwide, and obviously all articles are being like 'is it plagiarised, we don't know?', I think the creators of 1899 might be able to sue her for defamation due to Mary Cagnin knowingly making false statements about them publicly that has caused them monetary harm, though usually for famous persons it is generally harder to prove defamation so maybe it might not work out though. The plagiarism case though will probably get laughed out of court and she may have to pay costs due to frivolous use of litigation, if that is a thing in Brazil as well.
Fair play to her, all this controversy has gotten buzz around her work and people flock to her material. Honestly, when I saw the pyramids/triangles, my first thought was sci-fi stories really do love their pyramids/triangles. That has been used in sci-fi stories since people claimed that aliens built the pyramids. But regarding the ending and that big reveal, my first thought was oh this trope again. I have seen it countless times in other books, shows, and movies, that is not plagiarism, that is a common story trope. Though my favorite part of the show was the fact that everyone spoke in different languages and not just all in one language like English. It really set the tone of the show and gave it a rich tension.
im really glad you talked about this, giving detail and honestly just grounding the discusion. the series and the creators dont deserve to have this attached to them, and theres just no way of taking plagiarism seriously without taking the time to look into the different claims. jumping to boycott as soon as you hear the word plagiarism doesnt help anyone, critical thinking is still very much required
Right, sadly it feels like in-depth critical thinking has gone by the wayside in the face of the limiting nature of social media, which is designed to be recognized, consumed and ‘understood’ as quickly as possible.
This just made me think of Hoid in Words of Radiance “All stories told have been told before. We tell them to ourselves, as did all men who ever were. And all men who ever will be. The only things new are the names.”
1899 goes deeper than some sci-fi tropes. It's so intricate and full of symbology that this Mary person couldn't even begin to comprehend what she tried to compare her work to. 1899 touches mythology, theology, psychology, alchemy, multidimensionality and I won't spoil anything so I'll leave it at that.
As A writer it's just funny to see that some people think a story should be 100 p original there is no such thing we are inspired by everything we watch or read you take ideas from other stories the thing is that you make in your way.
Thank you so much for this video, I have seen many of those author accusations of plagiarism. As a writer I know that we are all influenced by everything around us. What we hear, see, watch, read, and do all have an effect on our works. Being well read can be both blessing and curse. Stephen King said all the stories have been told, the secret is in the telling. Once you are deep into writing it's almost like a fuege state of mind, the mind goes where the story takes it.
Didn't Blade Runner juxtapose imagery of eyes and pyramids? This reminds me of that woman who tried to claim JK Rowling ripped her off because her work used the word "Muggles" and certain similar names...And wasn't there a woman who claimed the Matrix ripped off her work?
I don't know that much about the Matrix case you mentioned, but it reminds me of a pair of RPG developers/writers in Sweden who were actually kinda amused by the fact that The Matrix essentially used their concept for the game Kult. There was never any court case obviously. Kult also deals with life being a simulation, but there it's much more of a cosmic horror situation with humanity being trapped by angels for our past crimes as conquerors and destroyers of worlds.
Is using same names, arcs, deaths, technologies, and novel concepts just inspiration? Her panels even where obviously used as storyboard. But yeah, go side with the big corporation and dismiss her as just another fringe lunatic who even made her work free online long time ago.
@@FelipeKana1 None of what you said are exactly same in both these stories. Especially the names and tech. Heck, the genre itself seems different. The panels she mentions are also too generic. If you believe 1899 really copied her work, then you should also believe that percy jackson copied the Golden Trio concept from HP (this isn't true either btw, the trio concept has existed since a long time in mythology).
@@FelipeKana1 that's bullshit, she took from event horizon and 1899 was likely also somwhat inspired by it. but claiming a nieche brazillian comic, that came out after the show was green lit by netflix, being used as storyboards for a german show, a country where brazillian comics aren't published at all is laughable at best.
@@Rakonax the comic came out before the show. shows go thru many changes diuring production, smetimes changing completely, so just because the show was greenlit first doesn't mean the writters couldn't have seen it while working on the show. the comic's author also WENT TO GERMANY, by invitation of the brazillian embassy, for an editor's event where she talked about her comic (plot etc.) and even gave away free printed copies AND translated digital copies
@@leonardopires9344 the comic book author was in sweden not in germany. on a local book event. And still the two stories have almost nothing in common, this hole debate is stupid and the author either through out claims without seeing the show, or did in in bad faith. in every case she should take back her claims
People need to remember that it wasn't Netflix who MADE 1899, it was Bo & Jantje. I would never believe anyone who says these two straight up plagiarised the plot of one of their shows.
@keepitabuck5018 don't make assumptions about me, buddy. I watched the whole thing and the ending was not great. It had already been done in the US remake of Life on Mars and wasn't great there either. The show literally explains nothing. Why do they need to be in space to do virtual reality simulations? What is the significance of 1899 the year is never mentioned and the number is never shown. You could have called it a million things more relevant. Are the husband and child real or simulations also likewise with various other characters we see people being controlled and manipulated like NPCs but also see them as possibly people on the ship? Why are all these people even trapped in the simulation? If they just wanted to get the key from the Moira character why not just have henchman guy get it in the first place didn't seem to take him very long when he did that. Why spend so long on some overly elaborate mystery. What did the old guy even do apart from look at TV screens?
@keepitabuck5018 this series had no answers only more questions. Any answers it did give would leave anyone who thinks about it with an obvious "whyyyyyyyyy??? Why is this happening why are we even on a ship?:
Smh some characters were eating fish and bread together, ripped straight out of the Bible. Such unapologetic plagiarism, should reverse royalties to Mr Filet-O-Fish
I’m glad you’re setting the record straight. I support the writers of “Dark”. Are you going to do a review of 1899? I would love to hear your theories!
Daniel I love passionate videos like this! I feel like there will be pressure for you to delete this later but I'm so glad someone is willing to standup for storytelling and integrity.
The author definitely didn't. She said how 1899 was "identical" to her comic and yet couldn't provide any concrete examples and had to resort to vague statements ("they both have mysterious events!"). Meanwhile SHE asked others to give her examples of similarities. Basically she didn't even have enough "evidence" and had to ask others to help her find the similarities while still accusing the show of being "identical".
She also called out the movie Life of Pi, saying it was a plagiarism of a Brazilian book. In actual fact, that movie was an adaption of the book Life of Pi by Yann Martel, who was inspired by a segment of the book she's referencing (Max and the Cats by Moacyr Scliar) where the main character crosses the Atlantic in a boat with a jaguar. That's literally the only similarity, they both feature a main character stuck on a boat with a big cat. In the Brazilian book, that's less than 20% of the book, while in Life of Pi, that's literally the main plot and takes up more than half of the book.
She didn't created that accusation, so you know? It was very much debates before. The original Brazilian author went for it, but against the other book. It was a solid enough claim, yes. As is this one. You guys really need to think better what plagiarism is and, if you're an author, how much "similarities" would it take with a big show before you start feeling robbed.
@@FelipeKana1 I know she didn't create the accusation but she's still calling it out, giving more attention to a false claim. The claim *isn't* solid, and you obviously are the one who needs to think about what plagiarism is. Let me tell you this: plagiarism is not that your book has a similar premise to another book. That's insane. If that were true there would be *way* more instances of plagiarism than there is, it would be a massive problem in media. There's a reason no one is accusing Wheel of Time of plagiarising LOTR, even though those two are *way* more similar than Life of Pi and Max and the Cats are.
Fantastic breakdown. Well constructed, fair and polite. Seriously important points made regarding what this controversy could do to the creators' reputation! Great video Daniel.
I appreciate this evenhanded response. It's not uncommon for shows/books/movies to use certain tropes, ideas, or shots (even around the same time) without actually being directly influenced by the other (even if it came much earlier), often it's because they're pulling from the same influences (whether it's specific media or broader societal or mythological things or concepts), subconsciously or not. Or sometimes it's simply because there are only so many ideas/options for certain things that you're bound to end up with similarities to something. I don't blame an author for seeing similarities, though I wish they would be a bit more tempered in response.
Oh. My. God. Came back to watch this video after I had watched the show, incredibly frustrated with how it ended. Turns out my Netflix bugged out and didn't play the final episode, so despite my efforts I still got spoiled about the ending by this video 😭
I had no idea 1899 was even a thing until talking two days ago with a friend who said that the controversy was that "Netflix had plagiarized her pitch to them"...which sounds so different from what Daniel is describing XD Either way, there is a need to have a well of tropes and visual language to draw from in order to convey your story. If we didn't have a "film language" any tv show or movie we watched would be senseless to the vast majority of people who watched it, and it would make sense that this language would have crossover with other mediums. Plus stories typically need something familiar to the audience as a jumping off point in order to even get them interested. A lot of premise/pitches of stories are going to sound super similar as a result. How many times have you sought out a specific premise for a certain vibe, only to be surprised in all the different ways it turned out in different stories? Meanwhile, all those campy Christmas romance movies are out here coexisting instead of suing each other for plagiarism XD
So true. Pitches in general are usually expected to name their influences and ‘similar properties’ so that publishers/producers etc. can easily identify the market and target audience for projects they’re considering.
lmao at the Christmas movie comment. There's a MASSIVE game like world genre in webtoons lately in Korea. Not a single one of them are sueing each other.
I know this shouldn't be a compliment necessarily, but nowadays I suppose it is. But your fan base seems so positive, supportive, and reasonable. Kudos to you for cultivating a voice of reason in this crazy online world!
Is obvious she didn't watch the show. Even from her tweets, make it seem someone told her they copied. She saw the visual similarities and went insane. Is understandable ofc, plagiarism is too common, but she got emotional real fast and didn't bother to sit down and watch the show
THANK YOU!!! It is free in pdf form and SUPER SHORT. I read it in 20 minutes and if we are calling this plagiarism, then we will have to reevaluate the entire sci-if genre! There’s almost nothing save the fact that there is a big black pyramid in the scenery, which is, you know, a thing that exists in Egypt, changed into the symbolic color for evil. This is perhaps the most RIDICULOUS claim of plagiarism I’ve EVER seen! Also, not to twist the knife on the author, but not a good read.
I'm less than 6 minutes in and I think I'll go watch the show now before watching further, but I gotta say - I'm not so sure that, in this case, the "I don't think people should be punished for being wrong" applies here The author making accusations already seems so pigheaded in their accusations, I can't believe they're making the accusations in good faith. Add to things the fact that, thanks to the attention earned by these bad faith accusations, they're profiting in the form of sales. I think there should be some punishment What kind of punishment? I have no idea. But at the end of the day, they're getting nothing but benefits out of this situation. They are being rewarded for gross behavior
I have to agree with you here. Expanding past SF, the doctor as a main character on a ship, is pretty much a staple. From Dr. Adam Bricker on the Love Boat to The Story of Dr. Wassell with Gary Cooper as the leading role, doctors on boats are regular main characters. They can talk back to the captain and are a source of wisdom and drama. As far as a pyramid in an eye, come on, I have been seeing eyes in pyramids and the reverse all my life. Multicultural crews? Wow that one pretty much reflects on every large cast since the Mod Squad. Doctor going crazy? Since Jekyll and Hyde and probably earlier that too has been pretty common. Lots of real life famous crazy doctors such has H H Holmes at the Chicago Worlds Fair. The only element that seemed like a close match was the pyramid, but honestly, in a show with this sort of mood, you show reflections in eyes and make them meaningful. If you latch onto the dark pyramid as a theme, it would be surprising if it wasn't reflected in an eye.
After reading her thread of tweets, I would almost go so far as to say the comparison images of 1899 were sent to them. They even admit they have not seen the show which is very worrying when stating such things aggressively. There will be no lawsuit as her arguments are without merit or standing. It is a David and Goliath fight with a knee jerk reaction of most of us to be on the side of the underdog.
It's so obvious (well, my opinion at least) the author used it as a chance to grab attention to the comic. Whether or not it was plagiarized (which it's pretty obvious it wasn't), the author just wanted to take advantage of it. It actually made me despise the author. Not ever gonna write any attack, but I won't ever read anything written by that author either.
@Nefereti Exactly. As a grown up "professional artist" she knew the ugly Twitter Mob will not only pressure the Authors but they will be possible harassed and bullied. I hope she is done in the Industry.
To use one of your favorite stories The Wheel of Time shares a TON more narrative DNA and tropes with LotR than these two stories share. If being inspired by a work is plagiarism then Robert Jordan was the worst kind of plagiarist. But inspiration is not plagiarism and please everyone who keeps cherry picking comparisons between things stop, just stop. There is a very high bar you have to cross to get to plagiarism, and there is a level of borrowing/inspiration that I wouldnt be cool with but its much higher than what 1899 even possibly could have done and much higher than even what Jordan did with Tolkein.
I disagree that people shouldn't tweet at her. She made false accusations publicly and deserves to get rebuttals and corrections that are equally public and to reach the people that read her accusations and possibly believe them mentioning her is almost a necessity. People shouldn't be hurtful but telling her directly she's wrong and that her claims are bogus is perfectly fine.
Thank you for this! I loved this TV show and think it deserves the hype for being original. This makes me think about when Avatar came out all those years ago and how people said it was ripping off other movies. I could easily agree in regards to SOME artistic choices when creating the world. But there were also a lot of original creative world building ideas to express the theme of the conqueror joining the people they are oppressing as they realize the beauty they have to offer. Idk, I am just some guy on youtube. Haha. Don't hate me people....
Funny, I was gonna watch the spoiler section because I don’t normally care about that stuff, but you talking about the different elements of the show kinda made me wanna check it out… so good job! I have to stop here though
I'm back to finish the video after binging the show and watching some behind the scenes stuff. 1899 is honestly great! I really hope the creators are able to get through this and continue making the story
@mackenzies.g.9862 I didn't like it 😔. The show has some series Lost vibes and didn't answer any of the mysteries or questions it raised just provided more questions. If it did give any answers my response was always "but why are you doing this, why is this happening, who are these people?". Seriously why is this even set on a boat what's the significance of 1899, none of this is explained. If you're going to have a mystery story you need to provide answers and explanations not just endless questions and unanswered puzzles, that's just frustrating to watch for 8 hours
I’m Brazilian and I am more less forgiving about Mary. I say this because Mary took the wrong approach, in the post she clearly accuses plagiarism, saying that the works were “IDENTICAL” and that “everything was there” (her words), in caps lock and in an appealing tone. She didn't give the slightest bit of benefit of the doubt, she arrived with "two feet in the door" and then the whole internet started attacking the series and the producers, and she did nothing to soften or stop it. Mary, if she really felt aggrieved, could have approached it in another way as well. That said, it's obvious she doesn't have any plagiarism there. As you said in the video, the two works are completely different. Themes she claims were "plagiarized" are common in many mystery and sci fi works.
To add on about her accusation on Twitter, in that SAME thread she ask people to send her the examples of similarities. Given how she's unable to actually form concrete argument other than vague summaries, it's likley she has not even watched the show.
The objective of accusing them was pretty simple. It got people talking about her little known piece of writing. You did. I might end up checking it out cuz of this video. So will some percentage of ... 141K viewers (as of 2 Dec, 22). It's all marketing man. I love 1899.
Update: last tweet I saw from her is talking about making this a legal thing. I will keep an eye on it for fantasy news.
ohh no. I think she will lose.
While I understand that you would never want to brigade anyone, especially not an independent writer, her emotional response to the media in question is not an excuse for making a false accusation against the show. Regardless of circumstances, we are responsible for our own actions. Her false accusations can cause serious damage to the show.
Is also seems that it got to the writers of the series and one of them posted on instagram. But regardless, I am pretty sure she doesn't have basis for suing, 1899 was being written and in creation a year before her comic even came out. She just seems to be very very stubborn, which I can understand. Doesn't make it right tho.
Please don't give her more attention. No matter her motivation she's winning by getting this PR. She already won by getting you to read and mention her here over apparently baseless claims.
To be honest I think it's important to talk about due to the issue of 'when is something plagiarism' being very important. Sure it sucks to give baseless claims attention but this is not a one-off issue, just look at YMS Kimba.
This is not the first or last time plagiarism will be brought up, especially in fantasy, it's a decades-old issue that should be talked about, even about baseless claims.
It stole the digits 1, 9 and 8 from George Orwell
Absolutely disgusting, can’t believe Netflix would do this
Are you saying George Orwell invented numbers???
@@jasondowns940 *YES*
Horrible that they allowed it to go.
Netflix.......my disappointment is immeasureable and my day is ruined.
As the age old saying goes that every writer should know-
"There's nothing new under the sun."
Make that a book title
@@animegravy8024 Ironically I found several books with variations on that phrase for a title lol
That's when we start looking for stuff in the darkness lol
@@joshbishop Ooo, I like that thought.
Neil Gaiman once wrote:
-----
"I was surprised to discover from yesterday's [Daily] MIRROR that I'm meant to have accused J.K. Rowling of ripping off BOOKS OF MAGIC for HARRY POTTER.
Simply isn't true -- and now it's on the public record it'll follow me around forever.
Back in November I was tracked down by a Scotsman journalist who had noticed the similarities between my Tim Hunter character and Harry Potter, and wanted a story. And I think I rather disappointed him by explaining that, no, I certainly *didn't* believe that Rowling had ripped off Books of Magic, that I doubted she'd read it and that it wouldn't matter if she had: I wasn't the first writer to create a young magician with potential, nor was Rowling the first to send one to school. It's not the ideas, it's what you do with them that matters.
Genre fiction, as Terry Pratchett has pointed out, is a stew. You take stuff out of the pot, you put stuff back. The stew bubbles on.
You are allowed to be wrong. You aren't allowed to defame someone, which is what she did.
fuck yes
I think you are allowed to try and protect your IP if you think it is being threatened but I don't know where that crosses over to defamation
True. Defame someone in order to get people to read your book. It's advertising nothing else.
I'm brazilian and i think this controversy is so weird. I have watched the show and read the comic, and the plots, characters and stories are completely different. Aside from a few visual elements, like a pyramide (wich the author of the comic wasn't the first one to use in a sci fi series), there's not a solid reason to call plagiarism. My guess is that the author hadn't watched the series, someone sent her the images comparing the works and she immediately felt she was robbed and made the thread.
The thing is that the brazilian community is going through this twitter mob mentality where they are attacking anyone who says there wasn't plagiarism, even though many of them have not even consumed both series. This reminds me of the "lion king ripped off kimba the white lion" controversy, wich YMS completely debunked on youtube simply because he was the only one who actually consumed both works lol.
Pyramids obviously they all plagiarized from Stargate!
Wait ... Stargate wasn't the first use pyramids? damn it
quando eu vi essa merda no twitter eu ja pensei "essa pessoa quer mt atenção" e ela conseguiu trocentos likes de gnt q nem leu a porra do quadrinho dela .-.
Não é só sobre as pirâmides. Tem muitos pontos em comum, personagens, nomes, tecnologias específicas, arcos de história, twists, etc.
E vocês realmente não sabem o que é plagio
@@FelipeKana1 se vc prestar atenção no video meu amigo, entenderá q n se trata de plágio
@@FelipeKana1 mano, vc assistiu a série e leu o quadrinho? Pq a história e os personagens são completamente diferentes. Os elementos parecidos são só tropes de histórias de ficção que vc acha em qualquer obra desse tipo. Se vc acha que isso é plágio, então game of thrones é plágio de senhor dos anéis
Multicultural crew can even be attributed to Moby Dick & Treasure Island.
We've been telling variations of the same tales forever because the collective therapy we experience through them is important to the human experience.
It's not "multicultural crew". It's same characters, names, character arcs, deaths, even plot points.
@@FelipeKana1 Between every story going back to dimly lit cave pictoglyphs yes exactly.
almost everything written in the last few years for mainsteam media has multicultural cast, even period dramas, so that's the weakest argument in her case imo.
@@FelipeKana1 no it's not?! Stop lying LMAO
@@FelipeKana1 why is this guy straight up lying lmao
I think alot of authors ignore "creative osmosis" when it come to their own works. How much sci-fi in the last 40 years can honestly claim absolutely zero influence from Star Trek, Star Wars, Bladerunner, Alien, Akira, Ghost in the Shell? Even if these works were not actively in the mind of the author/creator, they still form the modern dna and impression of sci-fi. No author truly creates in creative vacuum and modern creators stand on the shoulders of giants whether they know it or not.
I started writing a Sci Fi book when I was a tenneager and I got discouraged when i saw that my ideas already existed in other works. I didn't want people to accuse me of stealing ideas, so I stopped writing.
Later I started writing a fantasy novel, which I thught will be original, but I encountered the same problem. Even characters that I completely made up, with speciffic traits, backgrounds and motivations turn out to already exist, if you search enough.
@@scratchy996 You shouldn't be discouraged. many successful filmmakers and writers make peace with not being the first to think of things and end up paying homage to a lot of those classic artforms.
Not even just sci-fi. The "Eragon" novel is basically a beat-by-beat fantasy reskinning of Star Wars - and it was hugely successful too, at one point dethroning Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix in the bestseller charts
I discovered 1899 because I showed the back cover blurp of a novel called 'Eversion' to a friend, and he went "this sounds a lot like 1899."
The novel was written by Alastair Reynolds. According to second-hand source on Reddit, he didn't start even "thinking about" the novel until AFTER the pilot for 1899 was already written. The time it took to greenlight and produce '1899' meant that the novel and '1899' came out just few months apart.
Without spoiling too much, 'Eversion' has such major similarities with '1899' that (at least, based on first season) lot of people would probably believe the latter is a very loose or inspired adaptation, if they were told so. Some people also commented thinking this was some kind of collaboration.
1899 is fantastic. I agree, not as good as Dark, but still fantastic. Dark is one of those shows I actually consider a 10/10.
Dark is an amazing rare gem. 1899 was fun all the way through but I agree, it's not as good as Dark.
I wasn't that much of a fan of season 3, but Dark S2 is one of the best seasons of television imo, super inventive and overall great. Might check out this new one.
we only have one season of 1899 for now, maybe it will be 10/10 at the end too. After the first season I think we still don't understand like 90% of stuff really going on, so rating it already is kind of pointless.
1899's first season is a 8/10 while Dark's first season is a 10/10. It's a pretty good follow up but it's not on Dark's level though.
@@masteronionnorth2341 It is physically impossible to go above the levels of Dark
My first thought was immediatly, that I cant believe that. I mean sometimes you get surprised when you dig deeper, but the screenwriter of 1899 Jantje Friese and her partner are such a passionate filmmaking couple. They made DARK, an absolute masterpiece and though I dont love 1899 as much it's still amazing how much work they put into that. Their love for detail is impeccable
The girl is also an passionate creator. Small, from Brazil, for years trying for a spotlight. Sees several of her original elements being used point by point in a big show. Must be "fun".
The couple from 1899 has to explain themselves, at least. Their claim that they never even saw her comic cannot be true, since some of her panels definitely ended up in the storyboard and the writers room.
@Felipe Carvalho ...you have not seen this video, do you? By her claim, she can be accused to have stolen from Event Horizon or Star Trek or any other SciFi media in the last years... If she wants attention, this is the wrong way.
@@FelipeKana1 did you not watch this video? They don't need to explain themselves. I watched Dark and it's one of my favorite series, mostly because the writing is so brilliant. The writers have so much innate creativity they wouldn't need to borrow/steal from others. There are just some themes that are universal and appear in all sorts of stories. The images in the video Daniel posted that are similar in both are pretty universal types of imagery. Just like images in her comic are mirror images of scenes in Event Horizon. That just means she also used themes that are somewhat universal.
@@FelipeKana1 your comments are embarrassing, at least watch the video.
@@FelipeKana1 They are not original though, that's the whole point. Hell, the helmet shot of the woman is not even a thing in 1899, she's not wearing one. You cannot claim ownership of a framing angle or interstellar crews wearing helmets.
This is terrible on more than one level.
First, this writer crying wolf, even if proven wrong, has already won with the publicity. The viewership of her work has probably exploded several thousand percent over this nonsense, and by the time it’s all said and done, so many people will know her work that she’ll get a movie deal from Netflix.
And even more tragically, she’s accusing of plagiarism the writers of Dark. Dark!! The show that probably took a warehouse-sized whiteboard just to map out. Of all the hacks in the movie industry who probably do indeed plagiarize, how could she accuse these guys? And, more importantly, how could anyone believe her?
It’s just infuriating.
What I find particularly infuriating is the way she's weaponizing her Brazilian identity, victimizing herself and using this to stoke the flames of nationalism among her army of fellow braindead Brazilians who also want to be seen as victims. Really pathetic behavior honestly.
@@stoneheart8231 i would agree with you if not for your disrespect against my people…
There is certainly some mob mentality going on here, but do not state that my people is “braindead”, learn to respect others.
@@isabellearaujo8991 By "her army of fellow braindead Brazilians" I certainly don’t include the entire population of 214 million citizens, just the most gullible, easily-fooled, self-absorbed nationalists that roam twitter. And even though I’ve seen some of these moronic tweets reach almost 1mil likes, that’s still just a small minority in the grand scheme of things.
After seeing how her followers behave online, I have no respect for them or for her. Hope she gets sued for all she’s worth, so that her fanatics can see the truth.
Also playing the identity politics game. Like bruv you don't own diversity. Imagine thinking that using a certain skin color/(multi) cultural group identity in another story besides your own equals to plagiarism. It's actually like these why people often get tired of people who push these aspects of their marketing rather than on: How is your character relatable and what's their struggle on the journey?
People like her should pay consequences for their actions, not be rewarded for them…
I was not aware of this until yesterday, when Quinn did some coverage on this. If anything, all of this just made me more interested to check out 1899. It's been on my radar for a bit, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. That being said, your gut reaction is, I think, pretty normal and something that a lot of people also have. It's kind of natural to immediately want to side with a slighted creator against a large company, but this should serve as a reminder that it's probably a good idea to wait until we have all the details before flying into a rage on social media. Obligatory comment about Twitter mobs.
I would like to point out something regarding the implied similarities.
I haven't read the comic, just went through it briefly so correct me if i'm wrong, but it is assumed there is indeed a black pyramid in the story right?
Because the "pyramid" in 1899 isn't even a pyramid. It's a tetrahedron. A pyramid has a square as a base, tetrahedron has identical triangles on all sides. Regarding that, I recently read a very interesting comment analysing the show. Turns out it being a tetrahedron IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE STORY. I will try to paraphrase some of the analysis here and add some stuff too.
SPOILERS FOR 1899 BELOW
A tetrahedron is something what is called a "platonic solid" (pls google the proper definition of it because I'm afraid I won't explain it correctly). What you need to know is that only 5 of them exist. Apparently platonic solids are used frequently in today's technology, for example in electronics and geophysical modeling. Therefore they also play a major role in how things can be created in SIMULATIONS. What's more, when I researched the platonic solids myself I found out another interesting fact. Plato connected each classical element to a solid that is supposedly similar to the shape of their atoms. And he assigned tetrahedron to FIRE. How is fire relevant in the story? In Greek mythology, the titan PROMETHEUS stole fire from gods to give it to people, and he was severely punished for it, going through a REPEATED nightmare (like Daniel pointed out). The show told us (at least for now) that Moura was trying to "become the Creator" aka "play God" to make a new reality, new "better" world and then she got punished for it by being stuck in an never ending loop. We get even more connections to Plato since her whole idea of the simulation was based around the "platonic cave".
On top of that, throughout the show we have a lot of other triangle imagery. Particularly the upside down triangle with a line at the bottom - that is actually a symbol used in alchemy to represent earth. And COINCIDENTALY (or not) the symbol used for fire is - a regular triangle.
All this stuff honestly still blows my mind and makes me believe the showrunners had to REALLY do a ton of research to shape out the story.
Wow, I didn't even think of that. More people need to see this comment.
What a fantastic comment!
Loved this comment, opened my eyes to a few things I didn't realise when I watched the show
Well, even less probability of being plagiarized now. Who researches so hard and weaves these themes and symbolism together... just to plagiarize another work?
Awesome comment! Thank you for pointing this all out and for the research you did!
I enjoyed the heck out of 1899. Yeah, it's using some very tried-and-true (and occasionally silly) genre conceits... but in a slick and interesting way, just like DARK did. Remains to be seen if we will get the insane level of plot layering that DARK gave us, but I can definitely see the path for 1899 to do that. And I LOVED the very international cast with all the language barrier/figuring out how to communicate angles.
Honestly would've been a bit more interesting if the language barrier bothered the characters a little more. They all seemed to just be fine with it, like they've been scripted to get along. While realistically 1988 wasn't the most progressive of times and not being able to communicate during stressful situations would definitely cause some drama. Think of all the missed potential on non verbal acting and funny hand gestures.
@@tompaauwe4565 I was thinking the same til i realized that those people are chosen for a reason. I think their behavior isnt like most normal humans but they went through things that changed them. i wish i can make u understand but my english is shit haha
Hey Daniel, thanks for speaking up on this! For us fans of 1899 and Dark, a large voice like yours adding to the conversation is a big help!
- Anthony
Here, here!! 🙂😉
I completely share your opinion on this topic! I immediately watched 1899 when it came out since I was very excited for a mystery show written and produced by authors from my own country. I was more than happy that Germany is finally stepping up their game in the film industry and I wasn’t disappointed by the show. it’s not a 10/10 for me but I liked it a lot and I was quite shocked about the entire controversy that went on afterwards…thanks for using your reach in order to share a very relevant opinion. I also think that the usage of the triangle or pyramid as a symbol is something that happens in many fictional stories…to me it just gave me the association to the bermuda triangle but giving a different spin on it without giving away too much about the plot of 1899. In my opinion it is clearly not plagiarized, there are influences from myths, legends and popular tropes but that is something that happens in literally 90% of fiction…
Well, now a lot more people are going to read a Black Silence in order to disprove her claims. So, she’s going to get what she wants in a way
Black silence is free online for a long time, way before the show was announced. She made it avaliable online, btw. Not all press is good press if it doesn't means money.
True! I left that comment before I got to the part where he said it was free. I imagine it was an effort to get more attention to her work. Given the evidence Daniel provided, it seems illogical to claim plagiarism
Not me. I'll watch 1899 and skip her comic...the art I saw in this video wasn't very good, and didn't leave me wanting to experience more
I suspect this is what her intention was all along. Jantje even suggested this in an online comment regardlng this. Her rebuke was pretty scathing.
Yeah she gets Attention now. But i guess she can not grasp the real cost. Having Business Issues, going to Court is one thing. Total normal. But making impulsive Tweets with little to no evidence, while she had to assume a Twitter Mob will against these none "Brazilian", "gringo" Authors and bully them another. Who wants to work with such Artist? She is a grown women not some uncontrollable teenager.
The comic book being free on her webpage has me thinking that this entire thing was just a publicity stunt to get people to read it- which isn't gonna work out well for her at all when Netflix sues for defamation lol.
Yup.... Jantje herself even suggested this in an online comment...
oh I hope, they will sue. The more that I read about her "claim" the more I think she only cares about media coverage.
That is why I did not read it but googled it to see what the comic was about. Basically this kind of stupid stunt makes me avoid at all costs this kind of 'art' that tries to steal attention to successful artists.
I don't think this was a marketing move. This was an irresponsible tweet, from someone that genuinely thought was stole, in the "heat of the moment", before asking other people's opinion. Before cooling down and analysing the situatio with a fresh mind. Now she there is a chance she faces consequences.
Lesson: do not tweet when your shocked and upset, wait a little to cool down, think before tweet.
Maybe she would've still tweeted about it, but choosing better words, and another tone.
@@sleepyeffy4573 I saw that the author is now pursuing legal action though? This would be going further than just an irresponsible tweet
I met Brandon Sanderson at a con and I said to him that split the movie copied his legion idea. He said it's almost impossible now to write a story that is completely original and that his story could also be considered copy. Can't remember the book he referred to as being the "original idea"
But one thing is to have elements that repeat in many other works
Another is to have SEVERAL key elements from the SAME source
@@FelipeKana1 What elements?
@@FelipeKana1 The directors created DARK, which is one of the complex series of all time. They don't need to copy others ideas. If this was Jantjes and Bos debut I might have doubts, but no. There are no key elements that are completely new. By the way ... Marys multilingual crew does not speak in their mother tougues, or did I miss that?
The bible? Everyone who uses a multipe personas in one person and calls it Legion is referencing the bible, even if they are not aware of it. And its not like thats the only thing authors have lifted from the bible. Its really hard to be original in a world where the bible exists.
Black Silence has like 70 ratings on Goodreads, I don't think it's influencing anything tbh
and it came out after the story was green lit by netflix
Yeah because she wouldn't want anyone to actually read it and find out.
Such a weird claim. Multicultural crew? Melville did it for Moby Dick! Thanks, as always, for some thoughtful and fair analysis.
It's not just "multicultural crew". It's same names, same character arcs, same deaths, same plot points, even some panels used in the storyboard.
@@FelipeKana1 Stop spamming and do something useful with your life. You´re just writing the same lies over and over.
That's the most off-putting part of these accusation for me, i feel like weaponizing multiculturalism leaves a really bitter aftertaste. And to think that it's an original idea when it's an existing universal concept is strange
@@FelipeKana1 ah yes, like one of the panels of the comics being _literally_ traced from a still from Mad Max: Fury Road? What next, is the author gonna sue Egypt for having pyramids?
@@FelipeKana1 Jfc, you really spammed these lies everywhere in the comment section...Are you aware at this point, that NO, NONE of the names, arcs, deaths, plot points, or panels are even remotely the same? At all? Or are you still blissfully unaware? The comic artist ended up deleting her twitter in shame after she got caught in her lies, lol. Meanwhile she is the one who actually plagarized an entire shot of Mad Max in one of her comics, lol.
Glad you talked about this! I've seen a lot of people standing behind this accusation without even experiencing the show or the comic
Can't wait for more of your Stormlight vids my man 🙏
People should not be punished for being wrong forever especially if they apologized. But, they should be held accountable if they made public accusations that directly affect somebody.
1000%. It would be one thing if she made this accusation to a group of friends and that's where it ended. But this could end the careers of two incredible writers (who very much did not commit any plagiarism) and also negatively ripples into everyone involved in 1899, especially those on-camera.
A person can be wrong, but being wrong is not without consequences. Should she be getting threats? No. Should she be getting sued for defamation? Absolutely.
@@lovefromshirley And you can see quite many comments saying how they decided not to watch 1899 because of this whole accusation.
Meanwhile one of the two big thread accusing 1899 got deleted by the author without any correction so those who received the news from that post likely don't even know how ppl are now saying comic is nothing like the show.
it’s so sad how many people who didn't watch the show and didn't read the comic unconditionally believed in plagiarism and thoughtlessly spread it in twitter… at least check information but no instead people choose to spread misinformation 😔
Also sad that so many who didn't saw the actual claim just dismiss it as "one is a ship other is space so no plagiarism duh"
Because then they'd have to spend several hours of their time fact checking by reading and watching the whole show. That's too much work. Easier to just grab a pitchfork and go. And it's not just Netflix here, thefre are real writers who are needlessly dragged into a controversy that simply doesn't exist. The people defending her must not be familiar with science fiction genre at all, or plagiarism laws.
@@FelipeKana1 By your reasoning she stole her ideas from Event Horizon, so really she is the one guilty of plagiarism.
Did you read the comic?
@@JoaoSoares-vl1cs yes i read it
"People shouldn't be punished for being wrong"... but they SHOULD be punished, or at the very least publicly rebuked until they withdraw their accusation, for falsely accusing someone else of doing improper things. Particularly on Twitter when you can almost guarantee a mob of idiots spurred on by this did immediately send attacking tweets at Netflix, and most likely the writers of 1899 as well.
Jantje Friese, one of the authors, deleted her instagram account, most probably because of all the not very nice messages she received.
The moment more people came out saying that the 2 works are nothing alike, the Black Silence author followers started saying she never said the stories were the same but just elements. When others made them notice that the author did write in the tweet that 1899 is "simply identical" to her comic, they were like "why are you latching on that one tweet??" as if that wasn't what started this mess. It's never ending.
Especially if the consequences of them being wrong are nothing to sneeze at, like launching an angry Twitter mob at some innocent people.
Also she seems to have acted with reckless disregard for the truth. Either she's knowingly lying, or she didn't even watch 1899. Who the hell claims their work is being plagiarised, when they haven't even consumed the piece of media that they say is plagiarising their work?
She didn't falsely accused. There are enough similarities to make any author feel stolen. If those similarities are enough, it's up to the law, but the authors saying that they never even saw her comic before doesn't looks ok, because they sure used some of her panels in their storyboard
@@FelipeKana1 so wrong its funny
@@FelipeKana1 Are you assuming Daniel is bad faith here? I am definitely going to read the comic first and compare, but Daniel has no real reason to be bad faith. The popular opinion currently is to side with the author of Black Silence. Everyone I have talked to who has read/watched both agreed that the similarities were minute or just general sci fi stuff.
Reading the reactions to that tweet made it pretty obvious many of those hundreds thousands who liked it either didn't read the comic or watched the show (or neither of the two options).
I can understand a first knee jerk reaction since Netflix is involved, but so many seriously are going along with the narrative that the two works are identical, and it's just ridiculous.
It also looks like the author didn't actually watch the serie herself but asked her followers to tell her what similarities they found....? Not sure about this though, correct me if i'm wrong.
I'm definitely sympathetic to an author feeling defensive over their work, but claiming basic visuals and tropes as proof of "plagiarism" is not only arrogant (bc many tropes are about as old as humanity itself is), but deeply concerning given how many people are blindly agreeing with it. The whole rationale of the argument being that tropes and visual elements are enough to claim plagiarism spits on a core tenet of storytelling. It's like calling Star Wars a Dune rip-off because both feature space magic, politics, a desert planet, and a messiah-type figure, when anyone who's read Dune and watched 1 Star Wars movie know they take those tropes in vastly different directions.
Tropes are the foundation for a story, and lots of stories can share them, the way architects all use the same pool of materials to make buildings. But even so, you wouldn't confuse say, the Empire State Building in New York with the Lotte World Tower in Seoul, let alone accuse the architects who designed it of plagiarizing one another.
I think this BS copyright claim directly influenced Netflix's decision to cancel the series. Shame on them and shame on the author of the graphic novel.
SMH can't believe Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien ripped off *Die Hard* when he basically used Nakatomi Plaza twice in *The Two Towers.*
I mean, before throwing accusations around I don’t think it’s a harsh requirement to require people to actually think about it more than a second. It’s not the first ridiculous claim of plagiarism, and it probably won’t be the last, but I can’t excuse someone who accuse someone else that easily. To attack someone of committing a crime shouldn’t be done that lightly without prof on a social platform.
Just so you know, in most situations plagiarism is not a crime.
@@wingracer1614 it is if you monetize it
She succeeded at making people read her comic. I guess I'm going to do the same when I publish my comic. I'm going to accuse some popular show to gain attention.
Hey, imagine if several consistent elements of your comic, and only your comic, end up appearing in a big show.
Hope you get to enjoy it then
My thought is that it would work out initially, but when exposed, it would backfire.
@@FelipeKana1 I will sure do. I will use every generic elements of science fiction and pop culture to achieve this goal of mine.
@@bryanmitchell78 Probably. People are just emboldened these days by the mob mentality on social media but don't bother studying what it means copyright infringement. Plenty of artists like Mary herself have borrowed from previous works and yet dare to claim someone has stolen from them. As if Multiple discovery, archetypes or tropes are not a thing.
don't forget the "it is so hard for an author from [insert region] to be heard" part. which is quite ironic because it's not like german shows have it that easy on international markets
I'm a brazillian and I pretty sure she didn't watch the show, because if she had she would see that there's very little resemblance with her comic. But since we used to defend our own (we have our reasons) the buzz in twitter will continue and some people will die swearing on their lives that it was plagiarism.
No, there is way too much resemblance. Elements that she created in her book were used, as they were, the show just mixed a bit the context. Characters, names, arcs, deaths, technologies... even a few of her panels surely ended up in the storyboard. That IS plagiarism and is way too much, even if the show mixes other stuff
@@FelipeKana1 By your logic she also plagiarized all the authors she took inspiration from and just changed a few things. Her work isn’t original 🤷🏻♀️
@@FelipeKana1 You clearly haven't watched the show + read the comics. I suggest doing that before making these claims so that you can see how little merit they have.
@@FelipeKana1 Literally not true. None of the characters, deaths, arcs, names, or technology are remotely the same. Why are you trying so hard to spread this misinfo when you clearly haven't read the comic nor watched the show?
@@FelipeKana1 I just curious, do you do any kind of "proper" research before speaking about the matter, or you only take in what other show you and don't care about the legitimate of it?
A lot people online, have also commented how her graphic novel is basically a copy and paste of Event Horizon and Dead Space.
With her logic though, then the creators of Russian Doll plagiarized The Edge of Tomorrow and Happy Death Day, and the creators of Parrellels and Secrets of Sulphur Springs plagiarized Dark.
By the Way...
Outstanding video....
A lot of outragers need to watch this and realize... They've jumped to conclusions.
Worth noting too that pyramids are literally the most secure, easiest architectural form you can build to any decent size without fear of collapse. This is why they are so common. For the same reason that when you let sand fall from your hand it forms into a hill with the same incline as a pyramid. Not to mention that black pyramids and "cyclopian" architecture is a direct ripoff of Lovecraft stories.
Plus, pyramids are a thankful element if you want to visualize the concept of power structures. The higher you go, the fewer pieces there are.
I wish this reached more people. Thank you for this.
I watched 2 episodes, and skimmed through a few pages of the graphic novel. I can already say that the two are very different. Reminds me of the Fine Bros trying to copyright / trademark reacting on TH-cam. lol
Maybe she only wanted some pr, well, she's successful.
Yeah, just skimmy through and completely ignore the point. Great idea. Hope you don't get chosen for jury duty never.
Not first time Netflix getting away with this. Star Trek Discovery did similar bs too. Pick new and well developed elements from other stories, use names, characters, arcs, deaths, plot points, technologies... but change the setting or something and let your legion of fans do the "work"
@@FelipeKana1 Have you watched the show or read the book? If yes, then please point actual similarities and not just common tropes. If not, then just shut the F up. No need of being the hero of Justice here without any true understanding of the situation. Again, if you do have something, then do tell.
@@FelipeKana1 Filho vc é o namorado dela? Meu Deus, todo comentário vc enche o saco embaixo, pqp
@@FelipeKana1 the irony of your comment and what happened in the twitter thread + what you are doing is deliciously hilarious my dude
Wow. This is wild. I just finished 1899. I hadn't heard about this yet. That's really too bad.
I hope that this doesn't kill a chance of another season. I read that the writers were hoping for multiple seasons. I would really like to see where it's going.
God if this show, doesn't get another season, I know who I'm hurting 😡
Well...
This is why, as someone who loves both works, I really hate it when people say that Inception "ripped off" Satoshi Kon's Paprika.
One is a surrealist detective mystery with a love for film and social commentary woven into it.
The other is Ocean's Eleven with multiple Matrix's stacked on top of each other, based on a script that Christopher Nolan started writing ten years before he filmed it.
Some aspects of the show's design (black inverted pyramids, strange crystaline growths, people in a trance state, red lightning, the furnace...) remind me a lot of the videogame Control but I would never imagine calling that plagiarism.
btw I could make that list of similarities a lot longer, anyone who consumed both these pieces of media would agree, yet they are a completely different thing.
I'm glad you made this video. Hope more people see this and form their own opinions rather than blindly following twitter posts.
Daniel is twice the journalist as most people who call themselves journalists lol.
Has the creator ever heard of... ya know... *parallel ideas?*
Thank you for this!! I hope the show got renewed for a second season!
I had the same thought. The comic writer didn't immediately engage lawyer to sue Netflix or the show creators/writers told me what I needed to know.
I heard about this and honestly didn't think much about the claim. I think my main disappointment with the show was that I was looking for some Lovecraftian sea horror, what I got was simulation scifi. Overall the show isn't bad just not what I wanted. The tropes they play with are nothing new to sci-fi. I think Mary is going to make a fool out of herself if she goes for legal action.
My suspicion regarding the bjg reveal in the finale is they're still trapped in a simulation and... Ultimately maybe there isn't a simulation at all, but something much profound and reality shattering.
I understand what you're saying about the Lovecraftian aspect. In a way, I don't like the futuristic element because I like the period aspect and the ominous stuff like the pyramid. However, I'm happy that that hasn't really affected my enjoyment of it. I still like it a lot and can't wait to see more.
@@mattball2462 Well... Who's to say that the futuristic aspect of the show is what's really going on? Maybe it's a giant red herring... 🤔
If it's plagarism, i hope she's ready for a plagarism lawsuit from the makers of the movie Void, and probably even Event Horizon.
That’s very interesting. Incidentally enough, when I finished 1899 it reminded me a lot of the novel Eversion by Alastair Reynolds. I think that just adds to you point about their being common tropes to this genre.
It's not just the tropes. There are full on new ideas in the comic that were reused in the show. As well as plot points, characters, names, panels as storyboard, deaths...
@@FelipeKana1 no, there aren't.
@@FelipeKana1 At this point you’re just spamming the same comment. Just accept you’re wrong and go.
My thoughts exactly! I'm only halfway through 1899 but I was immediately reminded of Eversion (Although I do hope the story is not heading in the same direction)
@@FelipeKana1 away with you, simp!
I will say this, the mass jumping off the ship really was unsettling and holy smokes that image is gonna stay in my head for a long while.
I liked the first 2 seasons of 'Dark' immensely, and '1899' was created by the same team, exploring similar narrative terrain. The series quite obviously took a great deal of inspiration from an indie film called 'Triangle', released well over a decade ago. 'Triangle' also featured an (almost) empty luxury liner caught in a time-loop, a mother who was trying to escape the memory of what she did to her own child, and scenes in which the results of the various causality loops coalesce in dramatic fashion: in '1899', we see a harbor packed with hundreds of iterations of the same doomed ship; in 'Triangle', we find hundreds of corpses, all of them versions of the same murdered redhead. They also differ in many, many ways, but I'll refrain from entering that spoiler-rich territory.
Both '1899' & 'Triangle' are well worth the time, especially given the desolate landscape that the Netflix home-page has become of late. Taking inspiration from a film, using it as a springboard for new ideas in the way '1899' does, is nothing to be ashamed of; writers will be taking inspiration & outright stealing from '1899' soon enough. '1899' is a solid 7.5/10; at times predictable, it sometimes meanders & bogs down, but overall it's a fun story. 'Dark' seasons 1 & 2 are a bit better, averaging out at a 7.8/10. I'd give 'Triangle' a 7.0/10.
As for this shitty comic author looking to promote her work by tearing down someone else's: shut the fuck up. Coincidences happen all the fucking time; we instinctually mistrust coincidences, but we logically have to acknowledge that they exist & they happen.
The thing that's even more sad is that this show is produced by the same creative Duo that made Dark, and they have complete creative freedom and poured all their heart and effort into its production. Now they get hate online so much that Jantje Friese even disabled her Instagram account, all because of a selfish author who wanted to grab some fame from 1899's success with her delusion...
I watch it all one Saturday afternoon. Fascinatingly trippy.
In any case, a lot of people are now familiar with the previously totally unknown Mary Cagnin and her 'Black Silence' comic.
I had no idea this was going on and just finished 1899, it was extremely bingeable and I enjoyed it a lot! I hope you'll put up a review of the show as well, i'm interested to hear more of your thoughts on it ^^
I think the fact that the "plagiarisms" are so surface level and very easily coincidental, and the fact that the creators claim to have not even heard of the comic, kinda goes to show that it is just that: a coincidence. Why would they lie about something so surface level that you could only just make the 'inspired by' argument?
And now it's cancelled after 1 season, despite relatively good Numbers. I Wonder If her claim hurt the outcome.
Possibly if the accusation did actually make ppl not watch the show in the first place.
It's more likley that the show failed to meet the profit threshold compared to how much money it was spent to make it.
@@WoodSageSeaSalt god I hate what netflix has become.
I think it did. :(
It's such a reckless accusation made on a public medium, which has snowballed at an insane rate which has greatly coloured the reporting of the show that has little to no merit, and she has not retracted her statement, at this point it is starting to come off as malicious.
Also, this is getting covered by some pretty popular entertainment sites worldwide by now, right after it has released worldwide, and obviously all articles are being like 'is it plagiarised, we don't know?', I think the creators of 1899 might be able to sue her for defamation due to Mary Cagnin knowingly making false statements about them publicly that has caused them monetary harm, though usually for famous persons it is generally harder to prove defamation so maybe it might not work out though. The plagiarism case though will probably get laughed out of court and she may have to pay costs due to frivolous use of litigation, if that is a thing in Brazil as well.
Fair play to her, all this controversy has gotten buzz around her work and people flock to her material. Honestly, when I saw the pyramids/triangles, my first thought was sci-fi stories really do love their pyramids/triangles. That has been used in sci-fi stories since people claimed that aliens built the pyramids. But regarding the ending and that big reveal, my first thought was oh this trope again. I have seen it countless times in other books, shows, and movies, that is not plagiarism, that is a common story trope. Though my favorite part of the show was the fact that everyone spoke in different languages and not just all in one language like English. It really set the tone of the show and gave it a rich tension.
im really glad you talked about this, giving detail and honestly just grounding the discusion. the series and the creators dont deserve to have this attached to them, and theres just no way of taking plagiarism seriously without taking the time to look into the different claims. jumping to boycott as soon as you hear the word plagiarism doesnt help anyone, critical thinking is still very much required
Right, sadly it feels like in-depth critical thinking has gone by the wayside in the face of the limiting nature of social media, which is designed to be recognized, consumed and ‘understood’ as quickly as possible.
This just made me think of Hoid in Words of Radiance
“All stories told have been told before. We tell them to ourselves, as did all men who ever were. And all men who ever will be. The only things new are the names.”
1899 goes deeper than some sci-fi tropes. It's so intricate and full of symbology that this Mary person couldn't even begin to comprehend what she tried to compare her work to. 1899 touches mythology, theology, psychology, alchemy, multidimensionality and I won't spoil anything so I'll leave it at that.
As A writer it's just funny to see that some people think a story should be 100 p original there is no such thing we are inspired by everything we watch or read you take ideas from other stories the thing is that you make in your way.
Great video !!! Thank you for the explanation
Thank you so much for this video, I have seen many of those author accusations of plagiarism. As a writer I know that we are all influenced by everything around us. What we hear, see, watch, read, and do all have an effect on our works. Being well read can be both blessing and curse. Stephen King said all the stories have been told, the secret is in the telling. Once you are deep into writing it's almost like a fuege state of mind, the mind goes where the story takes it.
Didn't Blade Runner juxtapose imagery of eyes and pyramids? This reminds me of that woman who tried to claim JK Rowling ripped her off because her work used the word "Muggles" and certain similar names...And wasn't there a woman who claimed the Matrix ripped off her work?
I don't know that much about the Matrix case you mentioned, but it reminds me of a pair of RPG developers/writers in Sweden who were actually kinda amused by the fact that The Matrix essentially used their concept for the game Kult. There was never any court case obviously. Kult also deals with life being a simulation, but there it's much more of a cosmic horror situation with humanity being trapped by angels for our past crimes as conquerors and destroyers of worlds.
Great video, it answered a lot of questions. (The name Daniel Green actually appears in one of Lovecraft's stories, btw.)
The 1899 copied the matrix and the matrix copied Plato's cave allegory!
That's essentially what Mary is saying lol
Wait
Wait
Wait
Inspiration does not = theft!?
I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you!!
Is using same names, arcs, deaths, technologies, and novel concepts just inspiration?
Her panels even where obviously used as storyboard.
But yeah, go side with the big corporation and dismiss her as just another fringe lunatic who even made her work free online long time ago.
@@FelipeKana1 None of what you said are exactly same in both these stories. Especially the names and tech. Heck, the genre itself seems different. The panels she mentions are also too generic. If you believe 1899 really copied her work, then you should also believe that percy jackson copied the Golden Trio concept from HP (this isn't true either btw, the trio concept has existed since a long time in mythology).
@@FelipeKana1 that's bullshit, she took from event horizon and 1899 was likely also somwhat inspired by it. but claiming a nieche brazillian comic, that came out after the show was green lit by netflix, being used as storyboards for a german show, a country where brazillian comics aren't published at all is laughable at best.
@@Rakonax the comic came out before the show. shows go thru many changes diuring production, smetimes changing completely, so just because the show was greenlit first doesn't mean the writters couldn't have seen it while working on the show. the comic's author also WENT TO GERMANY, by invitation of the brazillian embassy, for an editor's event where she talked about her comic (plot etc.) and even gave away free printed copies AND translated digital copies
@@leonardopires9344 the comic book author was in sweden not in germany. on a local book event. And still the two stories have almost nothing in common, this hole debate is stupid and the author either through out claims without seeing the show, or did in in bad faith. in every case she should take back her claims
People need to remember that it wasn't Netflix who MADE 1899, it was Bo & Jantje. I would never believe anyone who says these two straight up plagiarised the plot of one of their shows.
1899 was FANTASTIC! Strongly recommend this show and I cannot wait to see where it goes next.
I didn't like it. It's Lost on a boat
@kityhawk2000 You must not have gotten past the first 2 episodes lol. It gets nuts
@keepitabuck5018 don't make assumptions about me, buddy. I watched the whole thing and the ending was not great. It had already been done in the US remake of Life on Mars and wasn't great there either. The show literally explains nothing. Why do they need to be in space to do virtual reality simulations? What is the significance of 1899 the year is never mentioned and the number is never shown. You could have called it a million things more relevant. Are the husband and child real or simulations also likewise with various other characters we see people being controlled and manipulated like NPCs but also see them as possibly people on the ship? Why are all these people even trapped in the simulation? If they just wanted to get the key from the Moira character why not just have henchman guy get it in the first place didn't seem to take him very long when he did that. Why spend so long on some overly elaborate mystery. What did the old guy even do apart from look at TV screens?
@keepitabuck5018 this series had no answers only more questions. Any answers it did give would leave anyone who thinks about it with an obvious "whyyyyyyyyy??? Why is this happening why are we even on a ship?:
@@kityhawk2000 Why indeed!!! Lol
I read a book the other day, and it had a character struggle against a villain. What plagiarism! It was ripped off directly from star wars!!!
Smh some characters were eating fish and bread together, ripped straight out of the Bible. Such unapologetic plagiarism, should reverse royalties to Mr Filet-O-Fish
Unbelievable
I know this whole thread is just jokes but I can't help but point out that Star Wars basically just ripped off Joseph Campbell.
@@wingracer1614 honestly it's all just a take on the heroes journey which is older than time
My favourite tweet is the one going "there's a mystery on the ship". Wow. A mystery. In a story. How novel.
I’m glad you’re setting the record straight. I support the writers of “Dark”. Are you going to do a review of 1899? I would love to hear your theories!
Daniel I love passionate videos like this! I feel like there will be pressure for you to delete this later but I'm so glad someone is willing to standup for storytelling and integrity.
I am just glad you found enough dramatic lid close ups for every punch on the greenscreen. And good ones as well. Great vid btw.
Well, the author probably never watched 1899, they just saw the trailer and decided "Netflix, lawsuit, payday".
The author definitely didn't.
She said how 1899 was "identical" to her comic and yet couldn't provide any concrete examples and had to resort to vague statements ("they both have mysterious events!").
Meanwhile SHE asked others to give her examples of similarities.
Basically she didn't even have enough "evidence" and had to ask others to help her find the similarities while still accusing the show of being "identical".
This is why looking up information for yourself is key. Don't just believe one thing you see, unless from a trusted source of course.
She also called out the movie Life of Pi, saying it was a plagiarism of a Brazilian book.
In actual fact, that movie was an adaption of the book Life of Pi by Yann Martel, who was inspired by a segment of the book she's referencing (Max and the Cats by Moacyr Scliar) where the main character crosses the Atlantic in a boat with a jaguar. That's literally the only similarity, they both feature a main character stuck on a boat with a big cat. In the Brazilian book, that's less than 20% of the book, while in Life of Pi, that's literally the main plot and takes up more than half of the book.
She didn't created that accusation, so you know? It was very much debates before. The original Brazilian author went for it, but against the other book. It was a solid enough claim, yes. As is this one. You guys really need to think better what plagiarism is and, if you're an author, how much "similarities" would it take with a big show before you start feeling robbed.
@@FelipeKana1 I know she didn't create the accusation but she's still calling it out, giving more attention to a false claim.
The claim *isn't* solid, and you obviously are the one who needs to think about what plagiarism is.
Let me tell you this: plagiarism is not that your book has a similar premise to another book. That's insane. If that were true there would be *way* more instances of plagiarism than there is, it would be a massive problem in media.
There's a reason no one is accusing Wheel of Time of plagiarising LOTR, even though those two are *way* more similar than Life of Pi and Max and the Cats are.
Fantastic breakdown. Well constructed, fair and polite. Seriously important points made regarding what this controversy could do to the creators' reputation! Great video Daniel.
I appreciate this evenhanded response. It's not uncommon for shows/books/movies to use certain tropes, ideas, or shots (even around the same time) without actually being directly influenced by the other (even if it came much earlier), often it's because they're pulling from the same influences (whether it's specific media or broader societal or mythological things or concepts), subconsciously or not. Or sometimes it's simply because there are only so many ideas/options for certain things that you're bound to end up with similarities to something. I don't blame an author for seeing similarities, though I wish they would be a bit more tempered in response.
In this case the comic didn't even really come first because this show has been in development for years.
Oh. My. God.
Came back to watch this video after I had watched the show, incredibly frustrated with how it ended. Turns out my Netflix bugged out and didn't play the final episode, so despite my efforts I still got spoiled about the ending by this video 😭
Really hope Daniel changed it from a pyramid to a rhombus, not enough love for the obvious superior rhombus in sci fi.
Are you kidding? if there is one shape more common in scifi than a pyramid it is the Rhombus, especially scifi games.
I had no idea 1899 was even a thing until talking two days ago with a friend who said that the controversy was that "Netflix had plagiarized her pitch to them"...which sounds so different from what Daniel is describing XD
Either way, there is a need to have a well of tropes and visual language to draw from in order to convey your story. If we didn't have a "film language" any tv show or movie we watched would be senseless to the vast majority of people who watched it, and it would make sense that this language would have crossover with other mediums.
Plus stories typically need something familiar to the audience as a jumping off point in order to even get them interested. A lot of premise/pitches of stories are going to sound super similar as a result. How many times have you sought out a specific premise for a certain vibe, only to be surprised in all the different ways it turned out in different stories?
Meanwhile, all those campy Christmas romance movies are out here coexisting instead of suing each other for plagiarism XD
So true. Pitches in general are usually expected to name their influences and ‘similar properties’ so that publishers/producers etc. can easily identify the market and target audience for projects they’re considering.
lmao at the Christmas movie comment.
There's a MASSIVE game like world genre in webtoons lately in Korea.
Not a single one of them are sueing each other.
@@WoodSageSeaSalt Thank God for that, otherwise I'd run out of things to read after I'm too exhausted after work to do anything else! XD
I just think everyone needs to go google the definition of plagiarism. Like. Right. Now. Might save us all down the road. :)
Loved this show. Went in completely blind. Thought it looked like a decent ghost ship story. Hooooooooly shit was I surprised lol
I know this shouldn't be a compliment necessarily, but nowadays I suppose it is. But your fan base seems so positive, supportive, and reasonable. Kudos to you for cultivating a voice of reason in this crazy online world!
Is obvious she didn't watch the show. Even from her tweets, make it seem someone told her they copied. She saw the visual similarities and went insane. Is understandable ofc, plagiarism is too common, but she got emotional real fast and didn't bother to sit down and watch the show
Black triangles in eyes, immediately went "hell, the Edge of Sleep audiodrama/podcast did this, too."
It is not uncommon lol
Thank you for mentioning Sunshine. It’s possibly my favourite movie, and a criminally overlooked scI-fi classic.
Great cast and story idea. I wasn't the biggest fan of the last act but it's still a cool ride.
She is not only wrong, she acted in bad faith and to get publicity.
She has won more than 10k followers in instagram and twitter.
Never thought I'd be watching a video explaining that tropes aren't plagiarism
THANK YOU!!! It is free in pdf form and SUPER SHORT. I read it in 20 minutes and if we are calling this plagiarism, then we will have to reevaluate the entire sci-if genre! There’s almost nothing save the fact that there is a big black pyramid in the scenery, which is, you know, a thing that exists in Egypt, changed into the symbolic color for evil. This is perhaps the most RIDICULOUS claim of plagiarism I’ve EVER seen! Also, not to twist the knife on the author, but not a good read.
I'm less than 6 minutes in and I think I'll go watch the show now before watching further, but I gotta say - I'm not so sure that, in this case, the "I don't think people should be punished for being wrong" applies here
The author making accusations already seems so pigheaded in their accusations, I can't believe they're making the accusations in good faith. Add to things the fact that, thanks to the attention earned by these bad faith accusations, they're profiting in the form of sales. I think there should be some punishment
What kind of punishment? I have no idea. But at the end of the day, they're getting nothing but benefits out of this situation. They are being rewarded for gross behavior
I have to agree with you here. Expanding past SF, the doctor as a main character on a ship, is pretty much a staple. From Dr. Adam Bricker on the Love Boat to The Story of Dr. Wassell with Gary Cooper as the leading role, doctors on boats are regular main characters. They can talk back to the captain and are a source of wisdom and drama. As far as a pyramid in an eye, come on, I have been seeing eyes in pyramids and the reverse all my life. Multicultural crews? Wow that one pretty much reflects on every large cast since the Mod Squad. Doctor going crazy? Since Jekyll and Hyde and probably earlier that too has been pretty common. Lots of real life famous crazy doctors such has H H Holmes at the Chicago Worlds Fair.
The only element that seemed like a close match was the pyramid, but honestly, in a show with this sort of mood, you show reflections in eyes and make them meaningful. If you latch onto the dark pyramid as a theme, it would be surprising if it wasn't reflected in an eye.
After reading her thread of tweets, I would almost go so far as to say the comparison images of 1899 were sent to them. They even admit they have not seen the show which is very worrying when stating such things aggressively. There will be no lawsuit as her arguments are without merit or standing.
It is a David and Goliath fight with a knee jerk reaction of most of us to be on the side of the underdog.
It's so obvious (well, my opinion at least) the author used it as a chance to grab attention to the comic. Whether or not it was plagiarized (which it's pretty obvious it wasn't), the author just wanted to take advantage of it. It actually made me despise the author. Not ever gonna write any attack, but I won't ever read anything written by that author either.
@Nefereti Exactly. As a grown up "professional artist" she knew the ugly Twitter Mob will not only pressure the Authors but they will be possible harassed and bullied. I hope she is done in the Industry.
To use one of your favorite stories The Wheel of Time shares a TON more narrative DNA and tropes with LotR than these two stories share. If being inspired by a work is plagiarism then Robert Jordan was the worst kind of plagiarist. But inspiration is not plagiarism and please everyone who keeps cherry picking comparisons between things stop, just stop. There is a very high bar you have to cross to get to plagiarism, and there is a level of borrowing/inspiration that I wouldnt be cool with but its much higher than what 1899 even possibly could have done and much higher than even what Jordan did with Tolkein.
I disagree that people shouldn't tweet at her. She made false accusations publicly and deserves to get rebuttals and corrections that are equally public and to reach the people that read her accusations and possibly believe them mentioning her is almost a necessity. People shouldn't be hurtful but telling her directly she's wrong and that her claims are bogus is perfectly fine.
The accusations weren't false. There are waaay too much similarities to be just coincidence or genetic scifi parallelisms. Not just the pyramid, btw.
Dogpiling is bad, and people who encourage dogpiling should feel bad.
@@FelipeKana1 All similarities shown are generic stuff found in countless pieces of fiction, there's no plagiarism.
Thank you for this! I loved this TV show and think it deserves the hype for being original. This makes me think about when Avatar came out all those years ago and how people said it was ripping off other movies. I could easily agree in regards to SOME artistic choices when creating the world. But there were also a lot of original creative world building ideas to express the theme of the conqueror joining the people they are oppressing as they realize the beauty they have to offer.
Idk, I am just some guy on youtube. Haha. Don't hate me people....
I mean, I called Avatar Dances With Wolves in Space. I still liked it and didn't think it was stolen.
Funny, I was gonna watch the spoiler section because I don’t normally care about that stuff, but you talking about the different elements of the show kinda made me wanna check it out… so good job! I have to stop here though
I'm back to finish the video after binging the show and watching some behind the scenes stuff.
1899 is honestly great! I really hope the creators are able to get through this and continue making the story
@mackenzies.g.9862 I didn't like it 😔. The show has some series Lost vibes and didn't answer any of the mysteries or questions it raised just provided more questions. If it did give any answers my response was always "but why are you doing this, why is this happening, who are these people?". Seriously why is this even set on a boat what's the significance of 1899, none of this is explained. If you're going to have a mystery story you need to provide answers and explanations not just endless questions and unanswered puzzles, that's just frustrating to watch for 8 hours
I’m Brazilian and I am more less forgiving about Mary. I say this because Mary took the wrong approach, in the post she clearly accuses plagiarism, saying that the works were “IDENTICAL” and that “everything was there” (her words), in caps lock and in an appealing tone. She didn't give the slightest bit of benefit of the doubt, she arrived with "two feet in the door" and then the whole internet started attacking the series and the producers, and she did nothing to soften or stop it.
Mary, if she really felt aggrieved, could have approached it in another way as well.
That said, it's obvious she doesn't have any plagiarism there. As you said in the video, the two works are completely different. Themes she claims were "plagiarized" are common in many mystery and sci fi works.
To add on about her accusation on Twitter, in that SAME thread she ask people to send her the examples of similarities.
Given how she's unable to actually form concrete argument other than vague summaries, it's likley she has not even watched the show.
The objective of accusing them was pretty simple. It got people talking about her little known piece of writing. You did. I might end up checking it out cuz of this video. So will some percentage of ... 141K viewers (as of 2 Dec, 22).
It's all marketing man. I love 1899.
A doctor going mad in a sci fi story?