I deeply relate to what Link is saying. For me, there's a lot of freedom in being okay with not knowing and making peace with the fact that this may very well be all there is.
For me, after leaving my high-demand religion, I really really struggled with what a lot of folks would consider a surface-level struggle with nihilism, born from a desperation in the face of infinity, but I took a lot of time to really try to research a lot of this stuff academically and landed with the concepts of existentialism. The philosophies and related ideas investigate the process of deriving personal meaning and direction forward without a larger cosmic gameplan or infinite ethic, and it really helped me move on from the darkest aspects of losing faith’s coping skills with the concept of death. Life in its finite existence but lasting impact on others doesn’t scare me anymore.
@@incendiarypoprocks8700this was HUGE for me, as a depressed Christian teenager. When your default is ‘nothing has any meaning inherently’ it takes a long time to recover from that shock, and come to the realisation that creating meaning is a beautiful, deep part of the human - if you handle it with care and patience and thought.
Its funny I was deconstructing about the same time as they released their first video on this topic. I was very on Rhett's path but I really feel like I have moved to Links path. When I was in line with Rhett I felt like I had to have this level of reason for not believing like I had to prove to my self I was allowed to not believe. At this point I don't understand the concept of "being spiritual".
@Applefreak52 yeah, I think I have migrated to the middle of that spectrum. I also started on Rhett's side of things, and learning about religion/spirituality is still a huge interest of mine. But I don't need to prove anything to myself or analyze my personal feelings about it. I'm grateful for the understanding I have.
On the question of where do I get my hope, I heed Uncle Iroh's advice. " In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself. That is the meaning of inner strength."
everything link is saying is super validating to me in contrast to rhett's story. rhett still seems very invested in spirituality and figuring all that out, while link is just kinda casual and doesn't think about it much which is exactly where i'm at. i was raised christian and stopped believing in god a long time ago and it's no longer something that concerns me. i relate to link a lot here. love these conversations!!
It's exactly how my dad and I are. My dad still believes in something, and while he says he's still mormon, he's very much not and never has antyhing good to say about the church. I'm very invested in my spirituality, I always have been, and I'm very atheist (but not a hate-theist). My dad is like, dude I don't care, I don't want to talk about it. It's interesting.
Same. Throughout these past four years of their deconstruction, I’ve always related more to Link’s take. Same goes for here. I’m at the point personally where I just don’t care either. I’m not spiritual still like Rhett seems to be. I’m okay with not knowing and just live my life without caring or thinking about it.
I'm somewhere in between. I don't think I've healed enough from religious trauma to look at it as objectively and practically as Rhett is, but I want to get there at some point. That just isn't where I'm at yet
This is really relatable. I had a bit of a revelation for myself at a ‘Christian intervention’ from some of my family many years ago, and they asked me if I thought god was real. I think they wanted an angry, judgemental atheist - or some kind of ashamed, fearful person who needed god but was denying it because of some pathology. I could sense that, and in that moment, partly out of frustration, I just blurted out ‘It doesn’t matter to me.’ That’s when I had the epiphany that it really doesn’t matter - I’m just trying to live a good life and struggle against my failings, like the rest of us. If there turns out to be a big dude in space, I hope he recognises that. If not, then I at least tried to do what I wanted to do. And if he *is* there and he’s angry enough at me to damn me for my humanness, then he’s a bad dude, and I don’t want to be a part of that.
I also relate so much to link feeling like he was super enthusiastic about being close with God but he just wasn't getting anything back. Whereas Rhetts deconstruction was a lot more cerebral and theological. It was so painful being in the church and feeling like everyone else was getting something from God while he just didn't seem to care about me. Ofc I had theological questions too but it all came down to a lack of feeling any connection worth basing my whole life on
“I don’t think you gotta be right about something to get into heaven. It doesn’t speak creator to me.” This quote absolutely nails how I feel about it.
Who dictates “right”? As humans we must find out what is “right” and how do we do that? By seeking the creator who tells us right from wrong since he is the all knowing. The real disease is blind faith, following a religion bc ur parents did. Instead we should research all thats out there and come to a conclusion. Ignorance is not the answer and will not get u anywhere and thats a promise
Okay it's just that the problem that you can't even demonstrate the existence of this creator being, let alone that it lets what right or wrong is. Further concepts like good or evil or right or wrong are contextually dependent subjective perceptual abstractions. Saying something is right or wrong merely means "I do or don't like this thing." You can just turn your brain on and figure this stuff out for yourself like an adult and it is not in fact necessary to appeal to sensibilities of a hypothetical being which has never been and in fact shown to exist at all. @@naailable
@@adamplentl5588 ur first sentence already im in disagreement on, id love to respond to ur comment but i feel like i could write a 12 page essay on it. I do appreciate the feedback!
@@naailable I like how as soon as you get even the tiniest little baby amount of pushback, it's just the end of the dialogue lol. "I could write a 12 page essay on why you're wrong but I for some reason can't even muster like a single counterpoint." Clown shit. Do everyone a favor and next time just don't open your mouth to begin with.
@@adamplentl5588 you look like a clown, ive been nothing but respectful. Says alot about ur views. You must live a very sad and insecure life. Try to cheer up
Ironically, as somebody who struggles a lot with the concept of death and ceasing to exist,.... what Link said is actually a really helpful. "I'm going to die, so I might as well get over it." Like, there's no use dwelling on it,... it will happen to you. You cannot escape it. It's the end of the road for everyone. Best just focus on what we do before we inevitably get there.
Totally. I grew up very nervous of death because I lived in a death denial family. But then I worked at a funeral home and it was the best thing that could’ve happened to me. Seeing all those people just peacefully hanging out? It made me realize that I’m far more scared of a painful life than I am of death. And it helped me refocus and put my energy towards what I actually care about and can change. Because exactly. Death is waiting for us all. All we can do is change what happens before then.
I think what scares me about it, is the current state of the world right now… not a lot of “Enjoyment” going on and it’s hard to really fully experience life when you can’t do a lot of the things you wish you could…
Yeah. I mean the way I see it, the best you can do is to just do your best in this life. Whether or not there's something coming after, at the end I'll know I did my best and I'm leaving behind my good work. If there is something after this, I'll be proud, and if there isn't, I'll have been proud.
They aren't healing the world, they are pulling people away from God, and that's not a side I would want to be on. I'm sad that they have turned this direction. 😪
All the love for those like Rhett who find stimulation in the adedemic side, in poring over the big questions. But I'm with Link. Spirituality is about what's within. The hows and whys and what-ifs are immaterial. For me, Spiritual growth is about living in love, gratitude and trying to enjoy the present moment. Because that's all we have. The past is gone, the future is unknown. "When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." I can't waste my life agonizing over questions I cannot know the answers to. But obviously I don't knock anyone who finds that research worthwhile. Everyone grows in their own way.
Thats what I find so interesting about the dynamic between Rhett and Link and I deeply relate to both aspects of their spiritual deconstruction. From my perspective and understanding from Rhett's experiences it sounds like it was his way of direction and the fundamental reason why from his experience things have value. and from Link's it about being able to live and enjoy life unencumbered and contently in everyway shape and form and to be present without guilt, shame, or fear. And I think at the end of the day their experiences are theres and uniquely different but I relate so deeply to both of them and really love their stories and journeys
If there is nothing after death and no judgment of any kind, why should we love and help others instead of focusing on improving our own lives only? What is "good" then, who defines it? What happens when your definition of good conflicts someone else's?
You can see the evangelical roots in Rhet, I mean that in as much of a respectful way as it can be taken. The way he almost needed Link to be on a spiritual journey rather than just listening to him and understanding Link doesn’t need the same thing Rhett does. Rhett reminds me of a few friends who left that lifestyle like I did, they left it then need to fill the religion/spirituality hole with something else. It seems Link doesn’t need that and is more focused on personal growth not spiritual “growth” and is okay with not knowing what’s after or if there is a greater design
It says a lot about how deeply-rooted and devoted they are in their friendship. After leaving my high-demand religion, it was really really tough to connect with anyone else who left because it felt like we all left for different reasons and rebounded in different ways. Some folks I wish I could have been closer with did exactly this, deciding to evangelize in different ways and not understanding where I didn’t match with them. It’s incredible these two and their broader community didn’t isolate them as aggressively, and that they could have the maturity and security to stay connected and work through things.
Yeah, one of the most frustrating things in my life is people telling me I SHOULD be spiritual. I just don't understand why they think someone needs any sort of belief system at all to be happy. It's not necessary in the slightest.
The problem is when people don't have spiritual grounding and fulfillment, they try to fill the void with unhealthy things whether it's substance abuse or unhealthy attachments to other people- they constantly need validation. And when they lose what gives them meaning in life, what's left is just crippling nihilism and depression. Human beings need to feed their souls as much as their bodies.
I don't agree with this. I will shamelessly say that I am not spiritual. I don't believe in "souls", praying to God, etc. What that doesn't mean that I'm some terrible, immoral person that doesn't seek personal growth. What do I "believe" in? Science. Facts. Theories based in evidence. I always say, "I'm an Atheist, not an asshole" though, so I don't seek to dissuade those that derive positivity from "spirituality". I feel for Link here. He doesn't seem to be spiritual, but he knows if he says that outright that there will be judgment. I hear ya, Link, and I agree. It's 100% okay not to seek spiritual experiences. Your life isn't less fulfilling for it.
I am a Christian and I’ve always loved Rhett and Link and still do, I’ve been watching them for about 8 years and they have helped me through the toughest of times. It’s okay to disagree and more people should be like that. I wish them both luck in their spiritual journey and hope they find peace in whatever they do! Also, I love all of you mythical beasts ❤
I'm a spiritual atheist with a number of friends of all sorts of religions. As long as your belief is for you and not everyone else, we're good! My beliefs aren't for anyone else either.
It's awesome that Link opened up about his spiritual journey. It's cool to find someone with a similar background who shares the same perspective. It’s ok to not feel impending doom for not knowing or caring about what happens next.
Rhett and Link remind me so much of myself and my partner in the ways we have handled our deconstructions. Like Rhett, I like to dive deep into religious philosophy and debate, while Link, like my partner, prefers to distance himself from that world except in intimate conversations. I think that's beautiful!! I have so much respect for Link and my partner for having healthy boundaries and knowing when to disengage. I'm like Rhett, I've "caught it badly" 🐛 the spiritual bug. And I'm loving all the ways I have been unraveling my spiritual journey with the Evangelical Christian culture I was raised in. Both approaches require so much bravery and WERK 💪✨
I relate to Rhett so much. I’ve deconstructed my faith, but I think frequently about the origins of religious practices and the way religion influences the world.
I agree completely with Link. I’m not afraid of dying, but the fear of suffering in a hospital or from a disease and not being able to die is terrifying.
my favorite thought experiment is to imagine the year before you were born, and what was so scary about not existing? If you arent scared of that, you aren't scared of what comes after death
This is the most I've related to Link. I just don't need to know the things I can never know. I'm good focusing on what I have now. Thanks for sharing.
I appreciate that part toward the end when y'all are talking about "needing evidence." The most misunderstood I feel when sharing with Christian friends about my own deconstruction is when they conclude that I "rely too much on feelings." When it's a romantic relationship, you develop faith in your partner the more you come to know and trust them. When there's a faith that's based in that connection together, you don't have to wonder if they've abandoned you every moment that you're apart. I spent the first few decades of my life being taught what to believe about God, but the point at which I had to walk away (because it was making me crazy) was when I realized that I had zero sense of *connection* in this thing that I'd called a "relationship."
This is really relatable and helped me put into words something I hadn't quite worked out yet. As a woman I was raised very much to be a people pleaser in evangelical Christianity, always serving and doing a double share of emotional labor. In deconstructing and realizing how unhealthy that was, I also realized that was exactly what was happening in my "relationship" with God. I was giving so much, being so earnest and putting so much emotional labor into it, and "God" was giving nothing back. I was altering my entire life course for him, and getting utter silence in return.
"When people stop saying revelations, that's when I'm back in." Link's take on all of this is so refreshing and I identify with everything he's saying so hard. I love Rhett's analytical mind and the way he enjoys examining and interpreting things, but I'm much more inline with Link. I don't enjoy thinking about it. It bums me out. I'm just gonna be happy where I'm at now. Also, jokes.
I’m very much where Link is at. I stopped believing a long time ago and I find it hard to take it all serious. I understand where Rhett is at as well though. He seems more attached to religion in comparison. Great conversation
I am so thankful that you both do a yearly update. It's very helpful to me as also somebody that is deconstructing my faith and beliefs. I can relate a lot to both of you in different aspects which is a comfort.
I totally get you Link!! I wish Rhett had been as respectful as Link was when he did his own reconstruction. Rhett seemed more like he was trying to convince Link of something vs Link actively listening to Rhett.
Honestly gave me "weird dude trying to convert you to your religion" vibe, except the religion is "spirituality". I was so excited to hear Link's point of view, but just left feeling like he was talked over and never got to say what he wanted. Personally, I've never been religious and I def relate to Link so much more, so I was curious about his views on things.
@@thespankmyfrank I'm pretty sure Link didn't want to talk about it at all but felt obligated to. Honestly they should just stop giving yearly updates and only talk about it when they feel they actually want to say something.
I think that's just where Rhett is at right now, emotionally. It's up to Link whether or not he feels disrespected by Rhett, and it doesn't seem like he does.
It's interesting because even as a Christian I feel like I can relate to both Rhett and Link. I really enjoy the research part of Christianity, but I also have a strong aversion to parts of Christian culture and organized religion/church like Link. The thought of going back in a church building and certain type "Christian talk" are nauseating to me. 🤢 My faith is still strong though. I mostly just keep to myself these days working in my garden healing from many years of church hurt and spiritual abuse. Healing has become a necessity for me these days. I pray for PEACE WISDOM LOVE and HEALING for all those who've experienced pain within Christianity. ❤🙏🏼
What Link says about death is so relatable. Fearing suffering on this side rather than after death and not really being scared of dying bc it's inevitable is so true. I mean we always make a point of remembering to live in the present and not focus too much on the future, that should apply to death too. Be grateful for life and enjoy it whilst it's here rather than focusing on something hypothetical like the afterlife. Death is going to come either way so you might as well make the most of it and have fun whilst waiting.
I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for 27 years, left in 2019 because my kids were 18, 19 yrs old and leaving the religion and I knew that I would be expected to shun them, I did a lot of research on Jehovah’s Witness and then the Bible. It has taken years to deprogram and deconstruct but I’m thankful I’m on the other side now. My mother in law hasn’t spoke to me since 2020 and my mom refused to speak to me even on her deathbed in 2021. Appreciate these videos.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, but glad you found YOUR true self. I can not understand religions that require shunning your loved ones for different or non-beliefs. 😢
I was a Witness when I was growing up, I wish my parents had looked at the religion more critically as you did when I left, I commend you for that. I'm sorry you had to go through that shunning, I know how it feels and was one of the reasons I didn't leave for a while. Hope everything is going and will continue going well for you!
So much respect for you as a parent to love your kids enough to examine your own faith and what was being demanded of you in regards to your children and choosing your kids
My dad entered the jehovas 5 years ago… is there something i can do to keep him from completely losing himself to it?🥹 Sorry for the shameless beg, but you seem incredibly strong and reflective. I thought I might ask
We left the church years ago but are not "out" as deconstructed to our families. Last year, my son died a week before his due date and we had to go to the hospital to deliver him, knowing he was gone. We suffered a catastrophically traumatic loss. If we had still been wrapped up in this idea that God provides, that there's a greater purpose and plan for his life, etc., it would have been so, so, so much worse for us. I think we'd still be much more actively participating in our own suffering. We don't believe in some great cosmic reason or a god that has a purpose to the senseless (preventable) loss of our son. But we have many family members who have tried these platitudes about some god's plan, or that there's "a reason for everything," because they are still trapped in this mindset that that is the only way to have hope and make sense of tragedy. Thank you both so much for talking about this topic!
But also maybe Link doesn't want to have a spiritual experience now and that's okay too. I was a little frustrated for him that Rhett seemed to keep pushing for Link to come back to some form of spirituality when it seemed like Link just wasn't very interested in thinking about it at all
It's always interesting how quiet and respectful Link is when listening to Rhett's breakdowns. Compared to Rhett's seeming need to convince Link of his point of view. Link shouldn't be judged for having a sense of humour, and making fun of his former relationship to praying/god. If he doesn't believe it anymore, it's noone's place to try and make him feel a faux solemnity about it, or even try to convince him to have any interest in spirituality at all.
Ngl, it was this dynamic of theirs that made me stop consistently watching their content, especially GMM. Now I tune in for the occasional podcast because Rhett as The Main Character and Link as The Oddball/Scapegoat is just so off putting to me. I still love them but I just can’t be around it too much.
yeah it made me feel bad when link was saying he feels stupid or like he isn't thoughtful because he isn't on this deep spiritual journey, when he shouldn't feel that way at all. his story is 100% valid and i think a lot of people can relate to it, myself included
He really seems to think a lot of himself and his ideas more so than anyone else’s, including link who honestly has a more realistic relatable viewpoint
It honestly solidifies my respect for Link. He seems so much more sure in himself, while Rhett is always looking for something else to fulfill him and has to convince others that it's the best way to live. Meanwhile Link is just fine being whatever he wants to be, and I love that.
Link, I one hundred percent get it, and I love how you expressed your understanding of Rhett's perspective with respect to his inquisitiveness about varying belief systems. My, I don't know... agnosticism? atheism?, has made my mom's passing much more gentle, as opposed to what I think would have been a struggle when I was "churchy." Life's weird enough without all that other stuff mucking things up in my head. Just a thought.
These conversations have changed my life in the most positive ways. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and answering these questions. I hope you do it again next year 💙
This was an absolutely fascinating discussion! I am not part of a particular religion, but over the last few years I've really gotten more into spirituality and a higher power. I love listening to Rhett and Link talk about their experiences
I have pastor parents (mom and stepdad) and I'm physically disabled as the oldest survivor of a rare genetic disorder. All my life I've been told God is the reason I survived and am still here today. I'm no longer a devout Christian over the past 4 years and counting. I have no regrets with my decision.
Yeah I suspect if I was in your situation with people telling me that, my question would be why God, in all His perfection, designed us in a way that I or others end up with such a condition in the first place. Glad you are beating the odds!
I’m in a similar situation. I’m also disabled, and have been for most of my life. I’m 25 and stopped believing in Christianity about a year ago after having been raised in it. My entire family is Christian. I’m always worried that when I eventually come out about no longer believing that they’ll claim I’m just mad at God because of my disability, or say that I should be grateful to God because it could have been worse. It would be a challenge to convince them I did it purely for intellectual reasons.
Im so glad rhett and link have each other to lean on as when you go through such deconstruction, all you need is just a friend by your side who knows your way of thinking
these episodes are always my favorites. i grew up in the same part of the bible-belt and have been deconstructing the beliefs that were pushed upon me for the past few years. love you guys!
I appreciate your openess regarding your journey and perspective. I was amazed how similar your experience was to my own in so many ways. It helps to know we're not alone.
I lost my faith quite abruptly nearly a year ago, after thirty years of Christianity. Initially, I kept praying at times … it was hard to let go of that “relationship” that had been at the core of who I was for so long. It was just a couple of months ago that I went to pray, and it suddenly struck me that it no longer made sense. I’m praying to nothing, for no purpose. There was a deep loneliness that took hold of me at that moment. The realisation that we really are all alone in this great, big, harsh world and there’s no interventionist god coming to rescue me just completely broke me. I have to not allow myself to think about it now otherwise I spiral into a depression. Things were simpler when I believed
The most comforting thing I have found is watching near death experience videos. It's amazing how they are so similar. There is no judgement, it's all about love and we are all connected. And what does God want? Nothing.
I'm with ya, Link. Last time I was asked about my faith, my answer was "ambivalent". Like, I have better things to spend my time thinking about. :) (I'm an ex christian, just in case anyone wonders)
Contrary to most comments under this post, I completely understand Rhett's perspective, he is actively searching for truth, for the meaning behind existence and a creator. I personally am not able to sit and exist without wondering about my existence,. We all have an imminent God consciousness that we are born with, it gets impacted by our external influences but that yearning and desire to learn and connect with a purpose and meaning is universal and I couldn't just sit and say whatever. That's my take on it, love these breakdowns!
As someone with religious trauma, I totally get Link's reluctance to engage with the topic too excessively because it can remind you of past struggles and having been taught a certain way to think. Coming from a non-Christian background though, I can't entirely divorce myself from that identity in the same way that R&L have. I feel like I'm actually somewhere between the two of them, I am honestly fascinated to learn about new things pertaining to it, but I'm a lot more casual about it. Part of why it's great that they each dedicate an entire episode for their different perspectives, honestly.
I started out more touched by Rhett’s side but as things have changed, I find myself resonating more with link. Link is the healthiest agnostic I’ve ever heard speak. Rhett seems very much in the camp of, “ I want to believe, therefore I do, but only kind of.” 😅
I mean, it's so disingenuous and self-deceptive as well. What does it mean to "want to believe"? If you "want to believe" the Earth is flat, sounds to me that you don't really believe that, do you?
Love these conversations and your honesty! It’s great to hear your different perspectives, which are both valid. Thanks again for continuing to share / update us on your experiences / status of your journeys. I believe it is important to talk openly about this topic.
Amazing. Thanks guys. Rhett should consider a deconstruction podcast (in all his free time /s). He has a lot to share. Link's contribution is valuable! But he's such a different soul in such a different relationship with this stuff. I could listen to Rhett "preach" about deconstruction all day! Not sure it would work without Link, just not sure Link is interested in a project like that.
I look forward to these videos so much. As someone with a very similar upbringing and not many people to relate to on this in real life, hearing both of your journeys is very healing and validating.
These conversations are crucial for where we are in the USA today. My family has been splintered after my brother left our faith and my parents and their whole family have been tore up over it and still don’t really know what to do with it. I am still in the faith but find myself trying to broker peace on this topic and I am thinking now I’ll just send your discussions on it to them and ask them to listen with an open and empathetic mind to gain some perspective into where their son is at and that maybe it can help shape the future. Thank you for having these discussions.
If your family wants to be happy and have a relationship with your brother, then they would do best to disregard what his religious views are and focus on the fact that he's happy like Rhett and Link discussed. Your beliefs shouldn't be your families and vice versa. If you believe in a loving god, then trust that your loving god will not damn your loved one for eternity for simply having a different viewpoint. If you can't accept that, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your faith as well.
I’m a firm believer that if you need that book or a religion in order to not do the bad things, Then you’re still a terrible person. We as a species didn’t write our morals based on that book. We wrote that book based on the morals at the time. That’s why there are so many conflicting morals in that book.
The problem is that there is no one universally accepted set of morals, everything is subjective to every human being. And that's a recipe for disaster. Human beings need a moral compass from an objective source, not just society, conjecture and our own feelings/desires.
If Rhett did an episode or even another show detailing all the things he’s found in his deconstruction and what they mean to him, I would listen to every second
“I just have this strong inkling that yeah we’re all just trying to figure it out, and if the answers were there I think they would be more evident at this point in human history So I just kind of sit back a little bit” - Link Neal
Link out here validating me as someone who also grew up in the church and is now…. Well just trying to do the best I can while I’m here with the time I have and not really KNOWING if God is real.
reaching into the wisdom in science such as- Astrophysics and quantum physics , etc .. seems to help me regulate a lot of thoughts/emotions regarding life topics like traditions, cultural beliefs, spirituality, and such. love the updates lick daddies, truly 🖤
It's crazy how time flies. I remember the first deconstruction videos you guys did years ago, I was a deeply ingrained Evangelical Christian. Now, all these years later I'm an agnostic atheist. What a crazy journey we've all been on!
Thank y’all for this talk. And Rhett thanks for mentioning Ram Dass. Makes me feel good I wasn’t the only one who ran into his work durning my deconstruction. His talks and ideas have helped me keep my faith intact, while I stepped away from Christianity
So proud of you guys talking about this publicly like this. I've been a long time GMM watcher, but only recently found out about this. I agree with Link 100%. I have a good life, good family, good job, no complaints. Myself, I don't need an afterlife, eternal rest sounds good to me, BUT if there is one, let someone else take my place. There are a lot of people that are born into suffering, and deserve a better life, either here, or after. Let them have it, I'm good. Love you guys!
Link’s relationship with spirituality (and related things) resonates with me so hard. Being open to a concept can be completely separate from an interest in actively pursuing “answers.” And not wanting to be involved in specifically church/religion-oriented conversational spaces because it gives you the ick-whether it’s disinterest or aversion-is perfectly fine. For me, religious/spiritual conversations can only go down one of two paths: boredom or anger. Since my stance can basically be summed up as “I don’t know and I don’t care. Do what you want as long as you’re not dictating how anyone else lives their life,” there’s zero benefit to dedicating any of my brain space to it.
I really enjoy studying religion as a social tool. I appreciate Rhett's wanting to delve deep into the philosophical and ethical aspects of religion a lot.
Rhett has a strong need to belong. He likes the “group” and to categorize himself also, thus the obsession with enneagrams (which are not empirically supported). Link seems to realize that there’s no real point or outcome to be gained from worrying about religion. Link seems to be happy to have a good life with his family and not need to label what is/what isn’t spirituality.
They went from a religious cult to a Hollywood cult. They have to belong to something to feel happy. Hollywood is a super cult when you examine what it is for people who live where they live and what they do for work. They worship that lifestyle now, and definitely a consumerist type cult too. But Rhett more than link has to belong and be accepted by a group think
You guys are absolutely great for talking this out...my journey to atheism started when my best friend died when I was 11. This hits pretty hard for me. Thank you.
Thank you guys so much for posting this and giving us your point of view. It’s been nice hearing both of your perspectives. Would love to hear more and I’m looking forward to more content!
I relate to both Rhett and Link’s approaches to spirituality and religion in different ways. I fall much more in that naturalistic approach that Link was describing about his spiritual practice because I’m really not interested in a metaphysical experience or a “spiritual journey,” even though I do technically believe it’s not impossible. As an (philosophical agnostic) atheist, I really don’t feel the need to search for some cosmological overarching meaning because I don’t believe there is one. BUT I am absolutely 100% so fascinated in learning about religion and spirituality, the development of them, the sociological forces shaping them, the underlying philosophies that fuel them - much like Rhett is. And I agree with him that that is not my spirituality, I just find it fascinating to learn about and talk about. And for me, whatever I could define as my “spirituality,” is kind of a spiritual approach to scientific truths and the natural world. As far as I know and believe, this universe is all there is, we do not have a creator, this life is all we have, so I derive a lot of spiritual meaning and fulfillment from connecting with nature, seeing myself as part of the earth’s ecosystem and interconnected with every living thing (objectively true), and finding meaning in the wonders and horrors of the universe. It’s not spiritual technically because I don’t have any positive belief in the existence of spirit (not ruling it out tho), but spiritual in that my approach and rituals that come out of my deep love and respect and connection with life itself does fill that spiritual part in my life that Christianity used to. Appreciate this discussion more than words can say.
I was indoctrinated at a VERY young age and it wasn’t until my 20’s when I even was able to question any of it. The realization of my death was one of the hardest things to cope with and religion and the idea of god did NOT make it easy. I applaud you two for speaking out about it!
definitely relate to everything link is saying. post deconstruction, i don’t believe in god, im not spiritual, and im super ok with that. it’s not something i need or want to give energy to. i’m ok with life just being this and knowing it’ll end.
Well, unless you're wrong. Then you're only happy until you die....that's the fear, for me. That by taking the easy route one is completely ignoring their own future suffering@@anxiousbarbie340
Honestly Rhett and Link’s dynamic regarding spiritual matters reminds me of me and my husband lmaoooo I love hearing Link’s perspective it’s honestly so refreshing. ❤
54:40 Forgive me for saying this, but I listened to your episode about Ben recently, and I find it so valuable here, to hear you talk about setting boundaries with people who make a lot of that relationship about trying to bring someone into the fold so to speak. I really do wonder tremendously what Rhett and Link 2024 would say to Rhett and Link in college or earlier or later.
I have really enjoyed listening to what you believe and why. I enjoy the challenges to my faith and appreciate having to face those challenges. Thanks again.
I remember struggling with my faith, and not quite understanding what I was going through. Then I heard your original podcast on deconstruction, and that was the "ahah!" moment. I eventually left Christianity, but the original deconstruction podcast was one of the pivotal moments in my life.
37:31 - give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish - I really appreciate you going through the logic of why bc they helps others go and do likewise, you’re teaching critical thinking and I love it!
As someone raised without influence from any sort of religion (other than entertainment/media), Link’s way of thinking has always been how I thought about “spirituality”. Because the driving force to live your best life should be what feels right to you as an individual. I think humans are born with empathy, and without negative influence/error, people will always choose to do good. These “rules” that religions set up are like stories you tell children. Don’t make faces or it’ll freeze that way forever! Don’t wander too far or a monster will eat you! It’s not with bad intent, but they are clearly all lies.
My absolute sincerest gratitude for this discussion. I’m starting to realize these topics are far more important than people collectively realize. My general belief is that it doesn’t really matter what you ‘believe’, as long as you believe in something- even if it just happens to be yourself
the thing is, "spiritual life" is not something one necessarily needs and the lack of it doesn't have to subtract anything from anyone's life. a spiritual's person "spiritual growth" is an irreligious' person's "personal growth".
I think we have a rigid definition of spirituality too. I grew up in latin evangelical church as a chore but what actually moves me spiritually and to tears in life is nature, positive relationships with others, seeing and believing in the goodness of human spirit, people protesting for human dignity across history and subjects etc.
So thankful for the talk on how to maintain relationships with your old religious friends. My family are such strong Christian’s and I am so scared that they will feel differently about me if they find out I am deconstructing.
Love the Sextember and Deconstruction topics. I don't really follow GMM every morning like I used to (for many years), but I love hearing you all have these discussions and conversations. Your opinions and view points are a good counter balance to things in my life.
Link is 100% right in the conversation about spiritual indifference. If the question is: “what then constitutes ‘spiritual growth’ for someone that is indifferent to being spiritual” the answer really is “spiritual growth is not a measurement I’m tracking anymore or holds any inherent value in my life”. Fancy speak for I don’t really care which is just fine.
These videos are incredibly comforting & helpful. In my several years of deconstruction, I"ve found myself relating to both Rhett & Link's experiences. At first, it was all too painful. Everything! So I couldn't listen to Christian music, couldn't go in churches, read the Bible - everything made me cry (similar to Jessie I suppose). While I coudn't face these things, my husband and I both were both neck-deep in books on theology, deconstructing, cults, ect. and were listening to LOTS of debates. After a while, I was able to, little by little, introduce some of these things back into my life. Being with these elements of my upbringing are still deeply painful but in a way I can manage. We'll also still throw a debate on youtube over supper sometimes because it's all so fascinating. All this to say, I'm still finding my footing for sure and hearing from others is really helpful. Thanks for helping with the healing.
I don't want to be disrespectful of Rhett. Rhett is saying he is pressing Link about what Link is saying "for people out there who may be feeling like" Link. The people out here who feel like Link are probably feeling like I am. I get very quiet and inwardly defensive about my lack of belief and lack of curiosity or interest in spirituality. Rhett is NOT pressing Link so hard for Link's sake. I don't know why Rhett is, I could speculate, but whatever the reason is it is not for Link or anyone who thinks like Link. My speculation would be that Rhett feels alone in his search for some spirituality and finds it hard to understand that Link does not have that same approach. Further speculation that it's more impactful to Rhett coming from Link as opposed to an acquaintance because they went through their whole lives together. Rhett probably feels lonely because he still longs for guidance and spirituality but the one person who's been through all of this with him can't relate. So its an aspect of his journey he feels completely alone in and finds it hard to wrap his head around Link's way of thinking (I for some reason hate when people use journey the way I just did).
I have a far more extreme lack of belief and I don’t like talking about it because of how upset it makes everyone. And I mean EVERYONE. I’m a nihilist, a true nihilist and it’s very difficult for people to wrap to wrap their head around that. It’s always “well doesn’t this matter or that matter” yes, it does. But it doesn’t mean anything. Feelings aren’t meaning. I care more about my cat and dog than anything in the world but other people hate cats and dogs. And the connection I feel with them is feelings and emotions. And those mean nothing. Karma doesn’t exist because if it did life would be fair. And just because everything is meaningless doesn’t mean that I don’t care about people and animals and that I don’t try really hard to not cause suffering. But people HATE my take on existence so I’m so used to people like Rhett trying to explain what I’m saying and delve into what I’m thinking. It’s why I don’t talk about it. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I don’t believe in anything. I’m just existing.
@@JennRighter I have a similar take myself. I don't like talking about it, either, for the same reasons. A thought just popped into my brain just now. I wonder if people get hung up on the idea of whether or not something "matters" has to matter in all contexts? Or on a spectrum? I have thought that there is no higher purpose, and nothing matters on a grand scale. And I think that's able to coexist with our instincts, thoughts, and behaviors, which matter in a day-to-day, living and surviving contexts. You have given me food for thought. You write so well and clearly. You've managed to put into words something I never managed to say. There's a good chance that what I said in the previous paragraph makes no sense.
@@NightimeDemon you make complete sense. And I really appreciate what you’ve said because most people are very turned off by my outlook on life to the point of being combative at best and insulting at worst. Thanks for what you’ve said. It means a lot to me. Meaningless in the scope of life, but it feels like it has meaning to me 🤷🏼♀️🤣
@@JennRighterI would love to know more about your view of nihilism because to me that just sounds like most atheism. (I am an atheist and I do feel strongly about trying to reduce suffering, but that's kind of the only strong belief I have.) Do you care about your country's politics, for example? Healthcare? Education? Stuff like that that brings real consequences for you and others?
I was also raised an Eveangelical Christian and am now an Atheist. I don't think there's anything out there, or more specifically, I don't see any reason to think that there is. I'll change my mind when I see some actual evidence for a being outside of the physical universe. It was remarkably easy to stop praying, and once I did, I saw that when I just had an internal monologue, it was exactly like when I directed those thoughts "out there"...meaning that all the feelings I had when I thought (sort of) that someone was listening remained when I stopped thinking that. Nothing in my life changed other than constantly measuring myself against the supposed standards of a capricious god as written by bronze age nomads. I appreciate you both for talking candidly about this kind of journey.
How do you feel about fulfilled prophecy? I believe it to be one of the biggest forms of evidence we have for scripture and existence of God. Clearly, no human can predict the future with 100% certainty, 100% of the time. Yet, we have historical evidence of prophets claiming something will happen, sometimes hundreds of years in advance in very specific detail (not generic astrological-like details) and it will come to pass, exactly as described. And we can date these texts to being written wayyyy before the event took place. How do you reconcile that if not with God?
Link seems further on his journey, having the ability to move past and live life as it is. Rhett seems to still be looking for something to fill the void left by Christianity. My husband and I initially had similar reactions to leaving the church, but over time we have both moved towards Links way of thinking. Its hard, and the path out looks different for everyone.
Thank you for doing these podcasts. I've made sure to chime in at least every year since sharing your deconstruction stories, because it has been so therapeutic and helpful in my personal deconstruction. Thank you!
I deeply relate to what Link is saying. For me, there's a lot of freedom in being okay with not knowing and making peace with the fact that this may very well be all there is.
For me, after leaving my high-demand religion, I really really struggled with what a lot of folks would consider a surface-level struggle with nihilism, born from a desperation in the face of infinity, but I took a lot of time to really try to research a lot of this stuff academically and landed with the concepts of existentialism. The philosophies and related ideas investigate the process of deriving personal meaning and direction forward without a larger cosmic gameplan or infinite ethic, and it really helped me move on from the darkest aspects of losing faith’s coping skills with the concept of death. Life in its finite existence but lasting impact on others doesn’t scare me anymore.
💯
@@incendiarypoprocks8700this was HUGE for me, as a depressed Christian teenager. When your default is ‘nothing has any meaning inherently’ it takes a long time to recover from that shock, and come to the realisation that creating meaning is a beautiful, deep part of the human - if you handle it with care and patience and thought.
Its funny I was deconstructing about the same time as they released their first video on this topic. I was very on Rhett's path but I really feel like I have moved to Links path. When I was in line with Rhett I felt like I had to have this level of reason for not believing like I had to prove to my self I was allowed to not believe. At this point I don't understand the concept of "being spiritual".
@Applefreak52 yeah, I think I have migrated to the middle of that spectrum. I also started on Rhett's side of things, and learning about religion/spirituality is still a huge interest of mine. But I don't need to prove anything to myself or analyze my personal feelings about it. I'm grateful for the understanding I have.
On the question of where do I get my hope, I heed Uncle Iroh's advice. " In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself. That is the meaning of inner strength."
Facts! One of my favorite quotes of all time
Beautiful
Favorite show, favorite quote
everything link is saying is super validating to me in contrast to rhett's story. rhett still seems very invested in spirituality and figuring all that out, while link is just kinda casual and doesn't think about it much which is exactly where i'm at. i was raised christian and stopped believing in god a long time ago and it's no longer something that concerns me. i relate to link a lot here. love these conversations!!
It's exactly how my dad and I are. My dad still believes in something, and while he says he's still mormon, he's very much not and never has antyhing good to say about the church. I'm very invested in my spirituality, I always have been, and I'm very atheist (but not a hate-theist). My dad is like, dude I don't care, I don't want to talk about it. It's interesting.
Same. Throughout these past four years of their deconstruction, I’ve always related more to Link’s take. Same goes for here. I’m at the point personally where I just don’t care either. I’m not spiritual still like Rhett seems to be. I’m okay with not knowing and just live my life without caring or thinking about it.
I'm somewhere in between. I don't think I've healed enough from religious trauma to look at it as objectively and practically as Rhett is, but I want to get there at some point. That just isn't where I'm at yet
This is really relatable. I had a bit of a revelation for myself at a ‘Christian intervention’ from some of my family many years ago, and they asked me if I thought god was real. I think they wanted an angry, judgemental atheist - or some kind of ashamed, fearful person who needed god but was denying it because of some pathology. I could sense that, and in that moment, partly out of frustration, I just blurted out ‘It doesn’t matter to me.’ That’s when I had the epiphany that it really doesn’t matter - I’m just trying to live a good life and struggle against my failings, like the rest of us. If there turns out to be a big dude in space, I hope he recognises that. If not, then I at least tried to do what I wanted to do. And if he *is* there and he’s angry enough at me to damn me for my humanness, then he’s a bad dude, and I don’t want to be a part of that.
I also relate so much to link feeling like he was super enthusiastic about being close with God but he just wasn't getting anything back. Whereas Rhetts deconstruction was a lot more cerebral and theological.
It was so painful being in the church and feeling like everyone else was getting something from God while he just didn't seem to care about me. Ofc I had theological questions too but it all came down to a lack of feeling any connection worth basing my whole life on
“I don’t think you gotta be right about something to get into heaven. It doesn’t speak creator to me.” This quote absolutely nails how I feel about it.
Who dictates “right”? As humans we must find out what is “right” and how do we do that? By seeking the creator who tells us right from wrong since he is the all knowing. The real disease is blind faith, following a religion bc ur parents did. Instead we should research all thats out there and come to a conclusion. Ignorance is not the answer and will not get u anywhere and thats a promise
Okay it's just that the problem that you can't even demonstrate the existence of this creator being, let alone that it lets what right or wrong is. Further concepts like good or evil or right or wrong are contextually dependent subjective perceptual abstractions. Saying something is right or wrong merely means "I do or don't like this thing."
You can just turn your brain on and figure this stuff out for yourself like an adult and it is not in fact necessary to appeal to sensibilities of a hypothetical being which has never been and in fact shown to exist at all. @@naailable
@@adamplentl5588 ur first sentence already im in disagreement on, id love to respond to ur comment but i feel like i could write a 12 page essay on it. I do appreciate the feedback!
@@naailable I like how as soon as you get even the tiniest little baby amount of pushback, it's just the end of the dialogue lol.
"I could write a 12 page essay on why you're wrong but I for some reason can't even muster like a single counterpoint."
Clown shit.
Do everyone a favor and next time just don't open your mouth to begin with.
@@adamplentl5588 you look like a clown, ive been nothing but respectful. Says alot about ur views. You must live a very sad and insecure life. Try to cheer up
Ironically, as somebody who struggles a lot with the concept of death and ceasing to exist,.... what Link said is actually a really helpful.
"I'm going to die, so I might as well get over it."
Like, there's no use dwelling on it,... it will happen to you. You cannot escape it. It's the end of the road for everyone.
Best just focus on what we do before we inevitably get there.
Totally. I grew up very nervous of death because I lived in a death denial family. But then I worked at a funeral home and it was the best thing that could’ve happened to me. Seeing all those people just peacefully hanging out? It made me realize that I’m far more scared of a painful life than I am of death. And it helped me refocus and put my energy towards what I actually care about and can change. Because exactly. Death is waiting for us all. All we can do is change what happens before then.
I think what scares me about it, is the current state of the world right now… not a lot of “Enjoyment” going on and it’s hard to really fully experience life when you can’t do a lot of the things you wish you could…
YOU don’t die, you are not your ego, you are the awareness of it.
Yeah. I mean the way I see it, the best you can do is to just do your best in this life. Whether or not there's something coming after, at the end I'll know I did my best and I'm leaving behind my good work. If there is something after this, I'll be proud, and if there isn't, I'll have been proud.
@@Earthad23literally word salad. Deepak Chopra gibberish.
R&L out here helping to heal the world by talking to each other
My favorite pod
Amen!
Their openness about this topic saved my life
They aren't healing the world, they are pulling people away from God, and that's not a side I would want to be on. I'm sad that they have turned this direction. 😪
@@purplepebble3479 it's the openness and honesty of their talks on this that astound me. Much empathy for your path forward friend, keep healing
I getcha, Link. It's not so much about spiritual growth as it is just about growth. No spirit required.
To have a heart does not require a soul.
@@wolftitanTo have a soul, does not require worship of a deity
Human beings need to feed their souls as much as their bodies.
@@zebz313I hear the best is chicken soup
@@matthew6427 no. It's remembrance of their Creator.
All the love for those like Rhett who find stimulation in the adedemic side, in poring over the big questions. But I'm with Link. Spirituality is about what's within. The hows and whys and what-ifs are immaterial. For me, Spiritual growth is about living in love, gratitude and trying to enjoy the present moment. Because that's all we have. The past is gone, the future is unknown. "When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion."
I can't waste my life agonizing over questions I cannot know the answers to. But obviously I don't knock anyone who finds that research worthwhile. Everyone grows in their own way.
Thats what I find so interesting about the dynamic between Rhett and Link and I deeply relate to both aspects of their spiritual deconstruction.
From my perspective and understanding from Rhett's experiences it sounds like it was his way of direction and the fundamental reason why from his experience things have value.
and from Link's it about being able to live and enjoy life unencumbered and contently in everyway shape and form and to be present without guilt, shame, or fear.
And I think at the end of the day their experiences are theres and uniquely different but I relate so deeply to both of them and really love their stories and journeys
30 pieces of silver….worth it?
If there is nothing after death and no judgment of any kind, why should we love and help others instead of focusing on improving our own lives only? What is "good" then, who defines it? What happens when your definition of good conflicts someone else's?
You can see the evangelical roots in Rhet, I mean that in as much of a respectful way as it can be taken. The way he almost needed Link to be on a spiritual journey rather than just listening to him and understanding Link doesn’t need the same thing Rhett does. Rhett reminds me of a few friends who left that lifestyle like I did, they left it then need to fill the religion/spirituality hole with something else. It seems Link doesn’t need that and is more focused on personal growth not spiritual “growth” and is okay with not knowing what’s after or if there is a greater design
It says a lot about how deeply-rooted and devoted they are in their friendship. After leaving my high-demand religion, it was really really tough to connect with anyone else who left because it felt like we all left for different reasons and rebounded in different ways. Some folks I wish I could have been closer with did exactly this, deciding to evangelize in different ways and not understanding where I didn’t match with them. It’s incredible these two and their broader community didn’t isolate them as aggressively, and that they could have the maturity and security to stay connected and work through things.
Yeah, one of the most frustrating things in my life is people telling me I SHOULD be spiritual. I just don't understand why they think someone needs any sort of belief system at all to be happy. It's not necessary in the slightest.
The problem is when people don't have spiritual grounding and fulfillment, they try to fill the void with unhealthy things whether it's substance abuse or unhealthy attachments to other people- they constantly need validation. And when they lose what gives them meaning in life, what's left is just crippling nihilism and depression. Human beings need to feed their souls as much as their bodies.
@@zebz313 I know plenty who don’t have this issue.
I don't agree with this. I will shamelessly say that I am not spiritual. I don't believe in "souls", praying to God, etc. What that doesn't mean that I'm some terrible, immoral person that doesn't seek personal growth.
What do I "believe" in? Science. Facts. Theories based in evidence. I always say, "I'm an Atheist, not an asshole" though, so I don't seek to dissuade those that derive positivity from "spirituality".
I feel for Link here. He doesn't seem to be spiritual, but he knows if he says that outright that there will be judgment. I hear ya, Link, and I agree. It's 100% okay not to seek spiritual experiences. Your life isn't less fulfilling for it.
I am a Christian and I’ve always loved Rhett and Link and still do, I’ve been watching them for about 8 years and they have helped me through the toughest of times. It’s okay to disagree and more people should be like that. I wish them both luck in their spiritual journey and hope they find peace in whatever they do! Also, I love all of you mythical beasts ❤
So you claim to love them but don't mind that according to your religion they will burn and suffer forever and ever? Ok cool.
Same here God bless everyone :)
Hi mythical beast! ❤️
I'm a spiritual atheist with a number of friends of all sorts of religions. As long as your belief is for you and not everyone else, we're good! My beliefs aren't for anyone else either.
Rhett is the thinker and Link is the feeler. That has always been my take on those two, and it works for them.
It's awesome that Link opened up about his spiritual journey. It's cool to find someone with a similar background who shares the same perspective. It’s ok to not feel impending doom for not knowing or caring about what happens next.
Rhett and Link remind me so much of myself and my partner in the ways we have handled our deconstructions. Like Rhett, I like to dive deep into religious philosophy and debate, while Link, like my partner, prefers to distance himself from that world except in intimate conversations. I think that's beautiful!! I have so much respect for Link and my partner for having healthy boundaries and knowing when to disengage. I'm like Rhett, I've "caught it badly" 🐛 the spiritual bug. And I'm loving all the ways I have been unraveling my spiritual journey with the Evangelical Christian culture I was raised in. Both approaches require so much bravery and WERK 💪✨
My heart hurts for you both. You’ve been created with a great gift. Don’t waste it now.
@@SuezQSmithnow you're just trying to get insulted. Have some empathy.
I relate to Rhett so much. I’ve deconstructed my faith, but I think frequently about the origins of religious practices and the way religion influences the world.
I think for those of us raised in it, it's wired into our system. It's hard to drop it.
Rhett should make a podcast about this subject and his philosophies he finds..I'd totally listen to it.
I'm with you, Link. It just doesn't benefit me anymore to focus on my past beliefs. I'm happy with who I am now and that's enough.
I agree completely with Link. I’m not afraid of dying, but the fear of suffering in a hospital or from a disease and not being able to die is terrifying.
my favorite thought experiment is to imagine the year before you were born, and what was so scary about not existing? If you arent scared of that, you aren't scared of what comes after death
This is the most I've related to Link. I just don't need to know the things I can never know. I'm good focusing on what I have now. Thanks for sharing.
I appreciate that part toward the end when y'all are talking about "needing evidence." The most misunderstood I feel when sharing with Christian friends about my own deconstruction is when they conclude that I "rely too much on feelings." When it's a romantic relationship, you develop faith in your partner the more you come to know and trust them. When there's a faith that's based in that connection together, you don't have to wonder if they've abandoned you every moment that you're apart. I spent the first few decades of my life being taught what to believe about God, but the point at which I had to walk away (because it was making me crazy) was when I realized that I had zero sense of *connection* in this thing that I'd called a "relationship."
This is really relatable and helped me put into words something I hadn't quite worked out yet. As a woman I was raised very much to be a people pleaser in evangelical Christianity, always serving and doing a double share of emotional labor. In deconstructing and realizing how unhealthy that was, I also realized that was exactly what was happening in my "relationship" with God. I was giving so much, being so earnest and putting so much emotional labor into it, and "God" was giving nothing back. I was altering my entire life course for him, and getting utter silence in return.
"When people stop saying revelations, that's when I'm back in."
Link's take on all of this is so refreshing and I identify with everything he's saying so hard. I love Rhett's analytical mind and the way he enjoys examining and interpreting things, but I'm much more inline with Link. I don't enjoy thinking about it. It bums me out. I'm just gonna be happy where I'm at now. Also, jokes.
Both Rhett and Link's deconstruction episodes are incredibly insightful, thoughtful and very appreciated.
I’m very much where Link is at. I stopped believing a long time ago and I find it hard to take it all serious. I understand where Rhett is at as well though. He seems more attached to religion in comparison. Great conversation
I am so thankful that you both do a yearly update. It's very helpful to me as also somebody that is deconstructing my faith and beliefs.
I can relate a lot to both of you in different aspects which is a comfort.
I totally get you Link!! I wish Rhett had been as respectful as Link was when he did his own reconstruction. Rhett seemed more like he was trying to convince Link of something vs Link actively listening to Rhett.
Honestly gave me "weird dude trying to convert you to your religion" vibe, except the religion is "spirituality". I was so excited to hear Link's point of view, but just left feeling like he was talked over and never got to say what he wanted. Personally, I've never been religious and I def relate to Link so much more, so I was curious about his views on things.
First 5 minutes Rhett barely talked what so ever.
Agreed. But unfortunately Rhett is always like that. “You know what I’m sayin….” 🙄
@@thespankmyfrank I'm pretty sure Link didn't want to talk about it at all but felt obligated to. Honestly they should just stop giving yearly updates and only talk about it when they feel they actually want to say something.
I think that's just where Rhett is at right now, emotionally. It's up to Link whether or not he feels disrespected by Rhett, and it doesn't seem like he does.
It's interesting because even as a Christian I feel like I can relate to both Rhett and Link. I really enjoy the research part of Christianity, but I also have a strong aversion to parts of Christian culture and organized religion/church like Link. The thought of going back in a church building and certain type "Christian talk" are nauseating to me. 🤢 My faith is still strong though. I mostly just keep to myself these days working in my garden healing from many years of church hurt and spiritual abuse. Healing has become a necessity for me these days. I pray for PEACE WISDOM LOVE and HEALING for all those who've experienced pain within Christianity. ❤🙏🏼
I've never related to Link more than listening to his thoughts on this subject. Thanks so much for sharing your views in an open and honest way.
What Link says about death is so relatable. Fearing suffering on this side rather than after death and not really being scared of dying bc it's inevitable is so true. I mean we always make a point of remembering to live in the present and not focus too much on the future, that should apply to death too. Be grateful for life and enjoy it whilst it's here rather than focusing on something hypothetical like the afterlife. Death is going to come either way so you might as well make the most of it and have fun whilst waiting.
I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for 27 years, left in 2019 because my kids were 18, 19 yrs old and leaving the religion and I knew that I would be expected to shun them, I did a lot of research on Jehovah’s Witness and then the Bible. It has taken years to deprogram and deconstruct but I’m thankful I’m on the other side now. My mother in law hasn’t spoke to me since 2020 and my mom refused to speak to me even on her deathbed in 2021. Appreciate these videos.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, but glad you found YOUR true self. I can not understand religions that require shunning your loved ones for different or non-beliefs. 😢
I was a Witness when I was growing up, I wish my parents had looked at the religion more critically as you did when I left, I commend you for that. I'm sorry you had to go through that shunning, I know how it feels and was one of the reasons I didn't leave for a while. Hope everything is going and will continue going well for you!
I left almost 3 years ago💜sending you lots of love
So much respect for you as a parent to love your kids enough to examine your own faith and what was being demanded of you in regards to your children and choosing your kids
My dad entered the jehovas 5 years ago… is there something i can do to keep him from completely losing himself to it?🥹 Sorry for the shameless beg, but you seem incredibly strong and reflective. I thought I might ask
We left the church years ago but are not "out" as deconstructed to our families. Last year, my son died a week before his due date and we had to go to the hospital to deliver him, knowing he was gone. We suffered a catastrophically traumatic loss. If we had still been wrapped up in this idea that God provides, that there's a greater purpose and plan for his life, etc., it would have been so, so, so much worse for us. I think we'd still be much more actively participating in our own suffering. We don't believe in some great cosmic reason or a god that has a purpose to the senseless (preventable) loss of our son. But we have many family members who have tried these platitudes about some god's plan, or that there's "a reason for everything," because they are still trapped in this mindset that that is the only way to have hope and make sense of tragedy. Thank you both so much for talking about this topic!
I'm so sorry for the loss of your son.
Wow. Rhett put it perfectly by saying "your past experiences don't get to dictate or stop you from having a spiritual experience now."
But also maybe Link doesn't want to have a spiritual experience now and that's okay too. I was a little frustrated for him that Rhett seemed to keep pushing for Link to come back to some form of spirituality when it seemed like Link just wasn't very interested in thinking about it at all
These are probably the hardest pods you do every year but I am SO THANKFUL you do!!
It's always interesting how quiet and respectful Link is when listening to Rhett's breakdowns. Compared to Rhett's seeming need to convince Link of his point of view. Link shouldn't be judged for having a sense of humour, and making fun of his former relationship to praying/god. If he doesn't believe it anymore, it's noone's place to try and make him feel a faux solemnity about it, or even try to convince him to have any interest in spirituality at all.
Ngl, it was this dynamic of theirs that made me stop consistently watching their content, especially GMM. Now I tune in for the occasional podcast because Rhett as The Main Character and Link as The Oddball/Scapegoat is just so off putting to me. I still love them but I just can’t be around it too much.
yeah it made me feel bad when link was saying he feels stupid or like he isn't thoughtful because he isn't on this deep spiritual journey, when he shouldn't feel that way at all. his story is 100% valid and i think a lot of people can relate to it, myself included
He really seems to think a lot of himself and his ideas more so than anyone else’s, including link who honestly has a more realistic relatable viewpoint
It honestly solidifies my respect for Link. He seems so much more sure in himself, while Rhett is always looking for something else to fulfill him and has to convince others that it's the best way to live. Meanwhile Link is just fine being whatever he wants to be, and I love that.
Agreed
Link, I one hundred percent get it, and I love how you expressed your understanding of Rhett's perspective with respect to his inquisitiveness about varying belief systems. My, I don't know... agnosticism? atheism?, has made my mom's passing much more gentle, as opposed to what I think would have been a struggle when I was "churchy." Life's weird enough without all that other stuff mucking things up in my head. Just a thought.
I sadly don’t get much time to watch R&L as I used to. But I always come back every year to watch these faith updates, keep them up!
These conversations have changed my life in the most positive ways. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and answering these questions.
I hope you do it again next year 💙
This was an absolutely fascinating discussion! I am not part of a particular religion, but over the last few years I've really gotten more into spirituality and a higher power. I love listening to Rhett and Link talk about their experiences
I love that Rhett is excited about this! Don't ever be sorry; I am also very fascinated by this subject!
I have pastor parents (mom and stepdad) and I'm physically disabled as the oldest survivor of a rare genetic disorder. All my life I've been told God is the reason I survived and am still here today.
I'm no longer a devout Christian over the past 4 years and counting. I have no regrets with my decision.
Yeah I suspect if I was in your situation with people telling me that, my question would be why God, in all His perfection, designed us in a way that I or others end up with such a condition in the first place. Glad you are beating the odds!
I’m in a similar situation. I’m also disabled, and have been for most of my life. I’m 25 and stopped believing in Christianity about a year ago after having been raised in it. My entire family is Christian. I’m always worried that when I eventually come out about no longer believing that they’ll claim I’m just mad at God because of my disability, or say that I should be grateful to God because it could have been worse. It would be a challenge to convince them I did it purely for intellectual reasons.
I love these episodes. It does kind of seem like Link is over it but I really love Rhett's passion on the subject so I hope they'll continue.
Im so glad rhett and link have each other to lean on as when you go through such deconstruction, all you need is just a friend by your side who knows your way of thinking
these episodes are always my favorites. i grew up in the same part of the bible-belt and have been deconstructing the beliefs that were pushed upon me for the past few years. love you guys!
I agree the church is in bad shape. But what about the bible you you not believe it anymore??
@@knappingrkall of it.
@@victornonexistant4010 why ?
@@victornonexistant4010 what do you believe in now
@@knappingrk why does it matter to you? my relationship with religion doesn't involve anyone but myself.
I appreciate your openess regarding your journey and perspective. I was amazed how similar your experience was to my own in so many ways. It helps to know we're not alone.
These episodes are my favorite tbh
I lost my faith quite abruptly nearly a year ago, after thirty years of Christianity. Initially, I kept praying at times … it was hard to let go of that “relationship” that had been at the core of who I was for so long. It was just a couple of months ago that I went to pray, and it suddenly struck me that it no longer made sense. I’m praying to nothing, for no purpose. There was a deep loneliness that took hold of me at that moment. The realisation that we really are all alone in this great, big, harsh world and there’s no interventionist god coming to rescue me just completely broke me. I have to not allow myself to think about it now otherwise I spiral into a depression. Things were simpler when I believed
I loved Link's answer about growth. His growth was learning to stop worrying about being right all the time, and just do your best.
Love these topics! Would love to have more of these, helps me a lot
The most comforting thing I have found is watching near death experience videos. It's amazing how they are so similar. There is no judgement, it's all about love and we are all connected. And what does God want? Nothing.
I'm with ya, Link. Last time I was asked about my faith, my answer was "ambivalent". Like, I have better things to spend my time thinking about. :) (I'm an ex christian, just in case anyone wonders)
Contrary to most comments under this post, I completely understand Rhett's perspective, he is actively searching for truth, for the meaning behind existence and a creator. I personally am not able to sit and exist without wondering about my existence,. We all have an imminent God consciousness that we are born with, it gets impacted by our external influences but that yearning and desire to learn and connect with a purpose and meaning is universal and I couldn't just sit and say whatever. That's my take on it, love these breakdowns!
As someone with religious trauma, I totally get Link's reluctance to engage with the topic too excessively because it can remind you of past struggles and having been taught a certain way to think. Coming from a non-Christian background though, I can't entirely divorce myself from that identity in the same way that R&L have. I feel like I'm actually somewhere between the two of them, I am honestly fascinated to learn about new things pertaining to it, but I'm a lot more casual about it. Part of why it's great that they each dedicate an entire episode for their different perspectives, honestly.
I started out more touched by Rhett’s side but as things have changed, I find myself resonating more with link. Link is the healthiest agnostic I’ve ever heard speak. Rhett seems very much in the camp of, “ I want to believe, therefore I do, but only kind of.” 😅
I resonated more with Rhett’s reasons for deconstructing, but I now resonate more with Link’s perspective post-deconstruction.
I mean, it's so disingenuous and self-deceptive as well.
What does it mean to "want to believe"? If you "want to believe" the Earth is flat, sounds to me that you don't really believe that, do you?
Love these conversations and your honesty! It’s great to hear your different perspectives, which are both valid. Thanks again for continuing to share / update us on your experiences / status of your journeys. I believe it is important to talk openly about this topic.
Amazing. Thanks guys. Rhett should consider a deconstruction podcast (in all his free time /s). He has a lot to share. Link's contribution is valuable! But he's such a different soul in such a different relationship with this stuff. I could listen to Rhett "preach" about deconstruction all day! Not sure it would work without Link, just not sure Link is interested in a project like that.
These have been so great for me during my deconstruction. You've both been able to put into words, feelings that i never could. Love these so much🫶
I look forward to these videos so much. As someone with a very similar upbringing and not many people to relate to on this in real life, hearing both of your journeys is very healing and validating.
These conversations are crucial for where we are in the USA today. My family has been splintered after my brother left our faith and my parents and their whole family have been tore up over it and still don’t really know what to do with it. I am still in the faith but find myself trying to broker peace on this topic and I am thinking now I’ll just send your discussions on it to them and ask them to listen with an open and empathetic mind to gain some perspective into where their son is at and that maybe it can help shape the future. Thank you for having these discussions.
If your family wants to be happy and have a relationship with your brother, then they would do best to disregard what his religious views are and focus on the fact that he's happy like Rhett and Link discussed. Your beliefs shouldn't be your families and vice versa. If you believe in a loving god, then trust that your loving god will not damn your loved one for eternity for simply having a different viewpoint. If you can't accept that, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your faith as well.
I just love you guys , thanks for the chat today . Your insights are always helpful and entertaining .
I’m a firm believer that if you need that book or a religion in order to not do the bad things, Then you’re still a terrible person.
We as a species didn’t write our morals based on that book. We wrote that book based on the morals at the time. That’s why there are so many conflicting morals in that book.
The problem is that there is no one universally accepted set of morals, everything is subjective to every human being. And that's a recipe for disaster. Human beings need a moral compass from an objective source, not just society, conjecture and our own feelings/desires.
Can I ask what conflicting morals you speak of?
@@zebz313i don’t see a book that’s been translated and retranslated countless times as “objective”
@@zebz313But there is no objective source... and people still function pretty okay.
@@zebz313human beings have an innate moral compass. You don’t need a book to try to change what’s right or wrong
“When it comes to god I feel like they know where to find me” is the most succinct way of wording that experience.
If Rhett did an episode or even another show detailing all the things he’s found in his deconstruction and what they mean to him, I would listen to every second
“I just have this strong inkling that yeah we’re all just trying to figure it out, and if the answers were there I think they would be more evident at this point in human history
So I just kind of sit back a little bit”
- Link Neal
Dammit guys, these discussions are so good.
rhett and link thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you for all you bring to the world. ❤
Link out here validating me as someone who also grew up in the church and is now…. Well just trying to do the best I can while I’m here with the time I have and not really KNOWING if God is real.
reaching into the wisdom in science such as- Astrophysics and quantum physics , etc .. seems to help me regulate a lot of thoughts/emotions regarding life topics like traditions, cultural beliefs, spirituality, and such.
love the updates lick daddies, truly 🖤
It's crazy how time flies. I remember the first deconstruction videos you guys did years ago, I was a deeply ingrained Evangelical Christian. Now, all these years later I'm an agnostic atheist. What a crazy journey we've all been on!
Thank y’all for this talk. And Rhett thanks for mentioning Ram Dass. Makes me feel good I wasn’t the only one who ran into his work durning my deconstruction. His talks and ideas have helped me keep my faith intact, while I stepped away from Christianity
So proud of you guys talking about this publicly like this. I've been a long time GMM watcher, but only recently found out about this. I agree with Link 100%. I have a good life, good family, good job, no complaints. Myself, I don't need an afterlife, eternal rest sounds good to me, BUT if there is one, let someone else take my place. There are a lot of people that are born into suffering, and deserve a better life, either here, or after. Let them have it, I'm good. Love you guys!
Link’s relationship with spirituality (and related things) resonates with me so hard. Being open to a concept can be completely separate from an interest in actively pursuing “answers.” And not wanting to be involved in specifically church/religion-oriented conversational spaces because it gives you the ick-whether it’s disinterest or aversion-is perfectly fine. For me, religious/spiritual conversations can only go down one of two paths: boredom or anger. Since my stance can basically be summed up as “I don’t know and I don’t care. Do what you want as long as you’re not dictating how anyone else lives their life,” there’s zero benefit to dedicating any of my brain space to it.
I really enjoy studying religion as a social tool. I appreciate Rhett's wanting to delve deep into the philosophical and ethical aspects of religion a lot.
Rhett has a strong need to belong. He likes the “group” and to categorize himself also, thus the obsession with enneagrams (which are not empirically supported). Link seems to realize that there’s no real point or outcome to be gained from worrying about religion. Link seems to be happy to have a good life with his family and not need to label what is/what isn’t spirituality.
They went from a religious cult to a Hollywood cult. They have to belong to something to feel happy. Hollywood is a super cult when you examine what it is for people who live where they live and what they do for work. They worship that lifestyle now, and definitely a consumerist type cult too. But Rhett more than link has to belong and be accepted by a group think
Humans are hardwired for connection. I would say Rhett just likes to know himself and if always curious & searching/learning about who he is
What did you mean about worrying about religion.
Also, link would be considered agnostic or does he not believe at all
Blissful ignorance i would call it
@@zebz313 ignorance to what?
You guys are absolutely great for talking this out...my journey to atheism started when my best friend died when I was 11. This hits pretty hard for me. Thank you.
Thank you guys so much for posting this and giving us your point of view. It’s been nice hearing both of your perspectives. Would love to hear more and I’m looking forward to more content!
I relate to both Rhett and Link’s approaches to spirituality and religion in different ways. I fall much more in that naturalistic approach that Link was describing about his spiritual practice because I’m really not interested in a metaphysical experience or a “spiritual journey,” even though I do technically believe it’s not impossible. As an (philosophical agnostic) atheist, I really don’t feel the need to search for some cosmological overarching meaning because I don’t believe there is one.
BUT I am absolutely 100% so fascinated in learning about religion and spirituality, the development of them, the sociological forces shaping them, the underlying philosophies that fuel them - much like Rhett is. And I agree with him that that is not my spirituality, I just find it fascinating to learn about and talk about. And for me, whatever I could define as my “spirituality,” is kind of a spiritual approach to scientific truths and the natural world. As far as I know and believe, this universe is all there is, we do not have a creator, this life is all we have, so I derive a lot of spiritual meaning and fulfillment from connecting with nature, seeing myself as part of the earth’s ecosystem and interconnected with every living thing (objectively true), and finding meaning in the wonders and horrors of the universe. It’s not spiritual technically because I don’t have any positive belief in the existence of spirit (not ruling it out tho), but spiritual in that my approach and rituals that come out of my deep love and respect and connection with life itself does fill that spiritual part in my life that Christianity used to.
Appreciate this discussion more than words can say.
I was indoctrinated at a VERY young age and it wasn’t until my 20’s when I even was able to question any of it.
The realization of my death was one of the hardest things to cope with and religion and the idea of god did NOT make it easy.
I applaud you two for speaking out about it!
I have zero spiritual growth. I am a happy person that cares and gives back to my fellow man
definitely relate to everything link is saying. post deconstruction, i don’t believe in god, im not spiritual, and im super ok with that. it’s not something i need or want to give energy to. i’m ok with life just being this and knowing it’ll end.
Isn't that the "easy" answer though? Of course it's easy to ignore it. I wish I could ignore it, too.
@@urioriari34 yeah it’s easy, why would i want to overcomplicate my life with something that is only conceptual? i’m much happier without religion.
Well, unless you're wrong. Then you're only happy until you die....that's the fear, for me. That by taking the easy route one is completely ignoring their own future suffering@@anxiousbarbie340
Honestly Rhett and Link’s dynamic regarding spiritual matters reminds me of me and my husband lmaoooo I love hearing Link’s perspective it’s honestly so refreshing. ❤
54:40 Forgive me for saying this, but I listened to your episode about Ben recently, and I find it so valuable here, to hear you talk about setting boundaries with people who make a lot of that relationship about trying to bring someone into the fold so to speak. I really do wonder tremendously what Rhett and Link 2024 would say to Rhett and Link in college or earlier or later.
I have really enjoyed listening to what you believe and why. I enjoy the challenges to my faith and appreciate having to face those challenges.
Thanks again.
I remember struggling with my faith, and not quite understanding what I was going through. Then I heard your original podcast on deconstruction, and that was the "ahah!" moment. I eventually left Christianity, but the original deconstruction podcast was one of the pivotal moments in my life.
37:31 - give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish - I really appreciate you going through the logic of why bc they helps others go and do likewise, you’re teaching critical thinking and I love it!
As someone raised without influence from any sort of religion (other than entertainment/media), Link’s way of thinking has always been how I thought about “spirituality”.
Because the driving force to live your best life should be what feels right to you as an individual. I think humans are born with empathy, and without negative influence/error, people will always choose to do good.
These “rules” that religions set up are like stories you tell children. Don’t make faces or it’ll freeze that way forever! Don’t wander too far or a monster will eat you! It’s not with bad intent, but they are clearly all lies.
My absolute sincerest gratitude for this discussion. I’m starting to realize these topics are far more important than people collectively realize. My general belief is that it doesn’t really matter what you ‘believe’, as long as you believe in something- even if it just happens to be yourself
the thing is, "spiritual life" is not something one necessarily needs and the lack of it doesn't have to subtract anything from anyone's life. a spiritual's person "spiritual growth" is an irreligious' person's "personal growth".
I think we have a rigid definition of spirituality too. I grew up in latin evangelical church as a chore but what actually moves me spiritually and to tears in life is nature, positive relationships with others, seeing and believing in the goodness of human spirit, people protesting for human dignity across history and subjects etc.
So thankful for the talk on how to maintain relationships with your old religious friends. My family are such strong Christian’s and I am so scared that they will feel differently about me if they find out I am deconstructing.
yes! Thank you both so much for speaking candidly.
I could listen to Rhett talk about all of this every podcast. He needs his own where he just talks about how he sees the world.
I love this attitude of "I accept this truth whatever it may be"
Love the Sextember and Deconstruction topics.
I don't really follow GMM every morning like I used to (for many years), but I love hearing you all have these discussions and conversations.
Your opinions and view points are a good counter balance to things in my life.
Link is 100% right in the conversation about spiritual indifference. If the question is: “what then constitutes ‘spiritual growth’ for someone that is indifferent to being spiritual” the answer really is “spiritual growth is not a measurement I’m tracking anymore or holds any inherent value in my life”. Fancy speak for I don’t really care which is just fine.
Man I can listen to Rhett preach all day
Ear Biscuits is my church, and Rhett and Link are the secular pastors bringing hope and healing to those of us who need it so much
Well I hope you find Christ
These videos are incredibly comforting & helpful. In my several years of deconstruction, I"ve found myself relating to both Rhett & Link's experiences. At first, it was all too painful. Everything! So I couldn't listen to Christian music, couldn't go in churches, read the Bible - everything made me cry (similar to Jessie I suppose). While I coudn't face these things, my husband and I both were both neck-deep in books on theology, deconstructing, cults, ect. and were listening to LOTS of debates. After a while, I was able to, little by little, introduce some of these things back into my life. Being with these elements of my upbringing are still deeply painful but in a way I can manage. We'll also still throw a debate on youtube over supper sometimes because it's all so fascinating. All this to say, I'm still finding my footing for sure and hearing from others is really helpful. Thanks for helping with the healing.
I don't want to be disrespectful of Rhett. Rhett is saying he is pressing Link about what Link is saying "for people out there who may be feeling like" Link. The people out here who feel like Link are probably feeling like I am. I get very quiet and inwardly defensive about my lack of belief and lack of curiosity or interest in spirituality. Rhett is NOT pressing Link so hard for Link's sake. I don't know why Rhett is, I could speculate, but whatever the reason is it is not for Link or anyone who thinks like Link.
My speculation would be that Rhett feels alone in his search for some spirituality and finds it hard to understand that Link does not have that same approach. Further speculation that it's more impactful to Rhett coming from Link as opposed to an acquaintance because they went through their whole lives together. Rhett probably feels lonely because he still longs for guidance and spirituality but the one person who's been through all of this with him can't relate. So its an aspect of his journey he feels completely alone in and finds it hard to wrap his head around Link's way of thinking (I for some reason hate when people use journey the way I just did).
Perfectly said
I have a far more extreme lack of belief and I don’t like talking about it because of how upset it makes everyone. And I mean EVERYONE. I’m a nihilist, a true nihilist and it’s very difficult for people to wrap to wrap their head around that.
It’s always “well doesn’t this matter or that matter” yes, it does. But it doesn’t mean anything. Feelings aren’t meaning. I care more about my cat and dog than anything in the world but other people hate cats and dogs. And the connection I feel with them is feelings and emotions. And those mean nothing. Karma doesn’t exist because if it did life would be fair. And just because everything is meaningless doesn’t mean that I don’t care about people and animals and that I don’t try really hard to not cause suffering. But people HATE my take on existence so I’m so used to people like Rhett trying to explain what I’m saying and delve into what I’m thinking. It’s why I don’t talk about it. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I don’t believe in anything. I’m just existing.
@@JennRighter I have a similar take myself. I don't like talking about it, either, for the same reasons.
A thought just popped into my brain just now. I wonder if people get hung up on the idea of whether or not something "matters" has to matter in all contexts? Or on a spectrum? I have thought that there is no higher purpose, and nothing matters on a grand scale. And I think that's able to coexist with our instincts, thoughts, and behaviors, which matter in a day-to-day, living and surviving contexts.
You have given me food for thought. You write so well and clearly. You've managed to put into words something I never managed to say. There's a good chance that what I said in the previous paragraph makes no sense.
@@NightimeDemon you make complete sense. And I really appreciate what you’ve said because most people are very turned off by my outlook on life to the point of being combative at best and insulting at worst.
Thanks for what you’ve said. It means a lot to me. Meaningless in the scope of life, but it feels like it has meaning to me 🤷🏼♀️🤣
@@JennRighterI would love to know more about your view of nihilism because to me that just sounds like most atheism. (I am an atheist and I do feel strongly about trying to reduce suffering, but that's kind of the only strong belief I have.) Do you care about your country's politics, for example? Healthcare? Education? Stuff like that that brings real consequences for you and others?
I was also raised an Eveangelical Christian and am now an Atheist. I don't think there's anything out there, or more specifically, I don't see any reason to think that there is. I'll change my mind when I see some actual evidence for a being outside of the physical universe. It was remarkably easy to stop praying, and once I did, I saw that when I just had an internal monologue, it was exactly like when I directed those thoughts "out there"...meaning that all the feelings I had when I thought (sort of) that someone was listening remained when I stopped thinking that. Nothing in my life changed other than constantly measuring myself against the supposed standards of a capricious god as written by bronze age nomads. I appreciate you both for talking candidly about this kind of journey.
How do you feel about fulfilled prophecy? I believe it to be one of the biggest forms of evidence we have for scripture and existence of God. Clearly, no human can predict the future with 100% certainty, 100% of the time. Yet, we have historical evidence of prophets claiming something will happen, sometimes hundreds of years in advance in very specific detail (not generic astrological-like details) and it will come to pass, exactly as described. And we can date these texts to being written wayyyy before the event took place. How do you reconcile that if not with God?
Link seems further on his journey, having the ability to move past and live life as it is. Rhett seems to still be looking for something to fill the void left by Christianity. My husband and I initially had similar reactions to leaving the church, but over time we have both moved towards Links way of thinking. Its hard, and the path out looks different for everyone.
I wouldn’t say it’s “further” along, it’s more that they have different interests and are different people
Thank you for doing these podcasts. I've made sure to chime in at least every year since sharing your deconstruction stories, because it has been so therapeutic and helpful in my personal deconstruction. Thank you!