My standard commander deck building technique, no matter how many videos I watch: - Encounter a fun-sounding tribe - Choose a suitable commander - Go through all kinds of angst narrowing down to about 60 of that tribal type - Add about 5 artifacts that help tribal - Add 35 lands - Lose
>be me >encounter fun sounding tribe >hey this commander seems fun with that tribe >hey these cards compliment the commander and what I wanna do with the tribe well >end up with about 20 tribe related cards in the deck >mfw I built another meren sac combo deck
LANDS: 30-36 adjust for MDFC lands 0-8 CARD DRAW: 6-12 Consider card advantage as part of your draw if it's very impactful SINGLE TARGET REMOVAL: 7-15 Consider counter spells that trade 1 for 1 BOARD WHIPES: 2-6 Count things like Bane of Progress that wipe all of -something- not just creatures RAMP: 10-16 WIN CONDITIONS: 3ish? This doesn't count single cards, but "A+B=Win" type combos or critical mass situations. Too many, especially with high cmc components, is unfocused, slow, and give you too many dead hands/draws. MANA CURVE: lower it. Play more spells per turn and be better set to win. 3-Drops get crowded, look to cut for 1s and 2s here. You're likely not going to play more than one 4+ per turn, and having several in your hand leaves you with nothing to play. Higher than 4, you're looking at like...2-3 cards of each at most. More general tips in video, I'm not gonna transpose it all lol. This was for quick reference.
Their avg mana curves (over 10 decks from each of them): 0: 1.9 1: 12.9 2: 16 3: 16.7 4: 9.5 5: 4.4 6: 3.2 7+: 1.9 Note: for these numbers, they adjust cmc of cards like MDFC (0), blasphemous act (1), treasure cruise (3) to what they typically cost in a game
For any of you looking for the TLDR on this video, here it is: If you're running black in your deck. Grave Titan is an auto-include. At all times. No exceptions. You're welcome. Just saved you 41 minutes.
@Sullivan Randall whoa a bot thats replying and is even complimenting the other bot. Scammers are getting a little better at deceiving still preying on the gullible.
I'm sure this has already been suggested numerous times and, to some extent you already cover a lot of your deck building choices and insight during your commander tune ups videos, but have y'all considered straight up building a new deck from scratch as a video or possibly a stream?
I used to struggle making decks. Videos like these are always helpful developing my own rules. Recently i made the rule that any card over 3 mana to cast has to be key to my decks strategy. All my decks feel much better.
Here's a new topic for you guys to do shows on. How about you break out decks that you've built...then break them down into categories and explain why you have that amount of each type (Ramp, Card Draw Target Removal etcetera.) That way people get a visual example as well.
I'm a yugioh player but my cousin recently got me into magic like a month ago. So fundamental videos like this are super helpful for me in understanding what the heck is going on. Hope there's more in the future! But you guys are by far the channel I watched the most when it comes to magic (even thoug idk what is going on half the time). Very enjoyable videos and topics and cool hosts. Keep it up guys 🔥
Finally, a channel that isn't afraid to talk about 30 land decks. I have been picking up commander since I got back into the game 2 years ago and I was surprised to see how a well-tuned optimized deck can work very efficiently at 30 lands (or less). Cream of the crop maybe, but it's no fun sitting with 7 lands and not enough spells to do anything.
I typically run 33-36 lands in my decks, depending on the cmc, and can easily say over the course of years I have experienced both all cards and no lands and all lands and no cards. At the end of the day, no matter how well optimized the deck it's still a game of chance
1- Land count: for me is 34-38, depends on the mana curve (always target no more than 4). Importantly, I do count MDFC as spells rather than lands, so I end up having extra lands to not miss a drop... 2- RAMP: 10-12 hopefully for Turn 2... 3- Card draw/sorting/advantage: I always go for 10 Minimun, but this number changes depends on the cards used which can make it less than 10. I.E: faithless looting, ponder, mind spring all count as 1, but things that are meant to give more than 1 like Guardian project and beast whisper (green because WotC belives green must have everything :( duh!) Actually count as 2 for me... 4- Boardwipes: 2-5, if the deck is creature heavy it gets 2, otherwise it gets 4-5 depending on how control oriented it is... 5- Spot removal: 8-10 this is counting creature/artifact/enchantment and its composition depends on the color. I.E: green is fight spells, blue considers counterspells as removal... 6- WinCons: these depend on the sinergy and strategy of the deck, but it should have at least 5 bombs/wincon.... That is my structure, and I based it around guides and decktechs from Command Quarters, Command Zone, and of course, this Lovely channel the NitPicking Nerds
This is my third time watching this video. I come back to it when I feel I have practiced deck building a bit and want to level up, picking more of the nuances up to build better. I am also sending it to a friend because everyone should see this.
Your friend thinking your last name is Cherries is the real life equivalent of the scene in Bob's Burger where Bob's friend Teddy thinks his full name is "Bob Burger"
Not sure anyone will see this comment so many months late but I have a system I use for "enablers and payoffs" and things of that nature for all my decks. It's not perfect, but it gives a pretty good starting point for deck building, and it's abstract enough that it can work no matter what kind of deck you are trying to build. I figure some people might benefit from this idea too, so here it is. In order to make sure I have the right numbers of cards that advance my strategy, I try to have at least 30 'Setup' cards, and at least 12 'Hinge' cards. I use these abstract names because what defines a Setup vs a Hinge card is going to be different for every deck, it all depends on what your strategy is. So you'll need to define what constitutes a Setup and a Hinge for your specific deck. Basically, a Setup card and a Hinge card together form a synergy of some sort, that makes the two cards together better than each one would be on their own. The way you tell the difference between Setup and Hinge cards is what each one does when it's the only card you have. Setup cards on their own are not particularly powerful, but they still do something. Hinge cards on their own, do absolutely nothing unless you have a Setup to use with it. So for example, a simple Hinge would be an anthem enchantment... it does absolutely nothing by itself, but if you have creatures (which would be the Setup in this case), it makes them all bigger You can also have cards that are both Setups and Hinges at the same time, like for example, Canopy Tactician in an elf deck. It is itself an elf, so it can be used as a Setup for any other card in your deck that cares about elves, but it also gives all your other elves +1/+1, so is also a Hinge for elves. Setup and Hinge can be really flexible since you can use these terms for any strategy. Some other decks I have where I have used this way of thinking for examples; Sidisi Graveyard deck: Setup= any card that puts more cards into graveyards. Hinge= any card that either wants to be in the graveyard, or cares how many cards are in graveyards Omnath Landfall: Setup= any card that puts lands onto the battlefield. Hinge= any card that has a landfall trigger Tuvasa Enchantress: Setup= any enchantment. Hinge= any card that reacts whenever you cast an enchantment, or cares how many enchantments you control Kykar Spellslinger: Setup= any instants and sorceries. Hinge= any card that reacts whenever you cast an instant or sorcery Florian Burn: Setup= any card that deals damage to opponents. Hinge= any card that gives a benefit based on how much damage was done this turn. Once you have defined what Setup and Hinge are for your deck, you can then ensure you have a minimum of 30 Setup cards and 12 Hinges and you'll have really good odds of drawing into those pieces with appropriate frequency.
Hi guys, just wanted to say that ARCHIDEKT has a feature where you can CUSTOMIZE the mana value/CMC of your cards. For example, I always register Fierce Guardianship as a 0 CMC card. It can change the average CMC of your list, sometimes going down, sometimes going up (I tend to register Cyclonic Rift as a 7 drop. And I try to guess at what minimum value I would cast my "X spells"). You have to click on the blue arrow that shows on the cards in your deck to do that.
BRUH I have literally been staring at Archidekt for the past few hours doing the mental checks for Fierce Guardianship & etc when looking at CMC organization. You just saved my life. Archidekt remains the top tier deckbuilder!
there's a kid at my lgs who only knew me as Judge. a few years ago i stepped down from the judge program. the kid didn't know what to call me afterwards because he never learned my name.
What better than listen to you guys lumber along a deck-tech session as I catalogue my collection as well as create an Alesha, Who Smiles At Death deck at the same time. Awesome! If you are a veteran or a noob, listening to different deck building opinions will make you a better overall brewer over time. I been giving White some love in my new brews lately, since I love White, weak or not. Ironically, I have been disliking Red more than White the past several brews I have made.
@@NitpickingNerds You guys have done more than enough to offer me small ideas that could shake off some of the rough edges of an idea I may have made! So yep, you guys are helping even us veterans to the game. Love you both much.
I would find a deck building video pretty valuable. For example i would like to see how you guys would go about building an ur dragon deck. How does the commander ability affect how you view your mana curve? What lands should i run in a deck that can utilize every color? What cards would you pick and why? What cards would you avoid and why? Overall good video guys!
Ahh, the pre moxfield sponser days. Using this a year later btw. Great video! Still very similar to what u all do a year later. Crazy good quality! Thanks!
When I start a new deck, the first thing I do is rummage through my collection for any cards that generally do the things I'm looking for. Once I have a pile, I sort it into general categories (card draw, ramp, etc) and then try to choose the best 9-11 cards in that category. I generally also have a miscellaneous group for cards (generally 20+ or so) that include bodies, wincons and such, as well as any cards that I didn't choose from a previous group that I still reaaaallly want to play. Later, when I want to upgrade my deck with a card, I look at the existing cards that fill a similar role and try to assess if it better than any of them at the same/lower mana value. I have a very small play group, but it generally works out alright.
I just want to say when I joined your patreon I 100% felt as much love as possible without feeling uncomfortable. I didn't believe it till it happened. You guys are the best. Love you guys
As a dedicated monoblue player, it was so liberating when I stopped running counter spells. I could then stuff all the other powerful things blue does in there.
This definitely helped me. I've wanted to build a thraximundar deck for so long. But the high CMC for that ability made it hard to build around. I settled on building a deck that is based on edict effects and cards that sacrifice themselves for interaction and value (mulldrifter, plaguecrafter etc) to buff up my commander. I had a lot of trouble laying out the deck and building anything consistent. Having useful tips like having multiple win cons and playing lower mana costs really helps me shape how I want this deck to go. Y'all definitely have got a sub from me!
Revisiting this video to get more perspectives for my Be'lakor demon tribal deck and even a year later it helps a ton. Definitely cutting a board wipe now, kind of tempted to replace some of my regular kill spells with demons that kill something on entry, etc. The section on curve hurt me though lol there's too many good 6+ drop demons to pass on. But at the same time like 20 ramp cards including the likes of Urzas Incubator, Nightscape Familiar, Rakdos Lord of Riots, and the new Herald of Slaanesh it shouldn't be too bad.
I did this a bit differently, and went with finding my gameplay first, and commander last. This lead me to knowing what colours I wanted to build, (along with a theme) in this case, blue, black and green, and then I chose my commander last, looking at what blue, black and green commanders where available, and then picking one that suited the theme and strategy. (The commander in this case helps the strategy of the deck, can be a massive boost to winning, but is also not essential in winning the game)
As a general rule of thumb I try to ensure that cards I play always replace themselves thanks to synergies. For example having permanents that reward you for playing a certain power/toughness, or instants or sorceries, play grave recursion, play manarocks that can be sacrificed for a card, play some cycling lands. Having options on having the card either impact the board or select cards/ draw cards for you is the key to winning EDH. It's hard to put my thoughts to words in text but I hope this helps someone
Most of my decks are only built with one win con in mind. But I'll discover others while playing the deck. It's always a pleasant surprise. I also have a habit of including cards because I'm fixated on. Example, I ran steel of the godhead in every deck I could just because I thought the kithkin looked sick summoning the sword. Ran kaiga the tidestar only because I liked the name.
How do you decide on a game plan? What are the archetypes for decks? I decided to get into MTG about a month before the pandemic hit last year, and I'm sure someone at my LGS could explain all this in about 10 minutes, but that access is closed off for a little while longer. The game plan is something every "how to build a deck" video talks about, but it seems like the most difficult thing to understand for a newbie player. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time guys, I really like the channel.
Thank you for all these amazing videos! I have a playgroup that has adopted newer people, people with lower cardbase, and people that don't have crazy deck building knowledge. I share SO MANY of your videos. Thank you for your knowledge, and for not being afraid to share your opinion on things that others don't listen about when it comes from me haha. Thanks for everything, keep it going.
Trying to build my first commander deck. I bought aura of courage my buddy bought a precon as well. I thought it was super awesome and I have an affinity for pirates trying to build my own deck. We played all Saturday and got steam rolled.
With ramp it really ranges a LOT, I'd say honestly between 5 and 25 can be optimal depending on the deck... and my Goreclaw deck has like 30 ramp/mana advantage cards, which may sound to some people like WAY to much, but it's actually pretty close to ideal as the deck wants to consistently have access to 20+ mana on turn 5. The deck also has 15+ ways to draw cards as well as 5 Tutors so there's not much risk of flooding out with ramp cards EDIT: The nerds mentioned Aesi right after I left the top part of this comment, so I wanted to say I also have a Tatyova deck with only like 2 draw spells and probably 40+ ramp cards as well as 43 lands, and that deck functions perfectly because of how busted Tatyova is (Why is she only uncommon?!?!) The deck wins by turn 5 or 6 every time, and is probably my hardest deck to stop from going off. My point is that as the Nerds mentioned, these numbers vary per deck and there will be outliers, but I wanted to emphasize that in some decks the numbers will not just be different from the general recommendations, but will be DRASTICALLY different.
Firstly, I just wanted to say that I've been binging all your videos, and I love your content (dare I say, more than Command Zone)! I wanted to add that synergistic deck building is so much more fun than using strong staples. I had an "ah ha" moment the other day when I was adding in removal and was going to use "Swords" AND "Path" in my white artifact matters recursion deck. I came across the card "Glass Casket" and said wow this provides so much more synergy with my deck even through it is strictly worse--I'm cutting Path! It felt so good to use that card over a boring old staple.
I loved the video because I have so much to do to improve my deck efficiency. But i feel like this was a "command zone did it wrong" video and i agree mostly with you all especially about the variability of how many of each card type you have but i would imagine they would agree with you they just decided to put a single number rather than a range. Regardless i love all your videos thank you for putting in the time and work to share this info with us.
This video is awesome because it applies very helpful and objective information with a reasonable source for the info, the video also incorporates a lot of core deck building for cedh which is a combination I have been looking for in videos and channels.
Thanks for the video! Regarding the lands, I've personally seen that my decks run smoothly (in the sense that I rarely miss land drops and I'm rarely flooded) with 37 to 40 lands counting MDFCs. I think 36 lands counting MDFCs is just too low. Also with a low curve I would run more, since you really don't want to miss land drops in any case.
I run 30 in my Sen triplets Deck and I'm usually either flooded or screwed just last Friday I notion thief into a wheel drew 15 cards ten of which where lands
In terms of board wipes, the only time I run more than 2-3 is in my Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate fliers deck since she can protect my army of creatures, wipe away every other creature and then swing and beat face.
About 23 spells, about 29 créatures, 8-9 artifacts, about 35 lands, 1 general who must be a Legendary creature with the same color of the deck...here we go ...
I tend to use more generic single target removal like terminate because having it at instant speed is just so important. I'll run plague crafter as 0.5 of a board wipe, but for single target I stick to swords to plowshares, nature's claim, etc. I make sure almost all my draw and ramp has synergies to make up for it though.
Something I’m doing that I’m curious to hear other opinions about is to not call it “removal” but “interaction”. So a card like hushbringer or Rest In Peace would fit in this category as it interacts with the opponent
Idk I think hushbringer isn’t really removal, as you can still technically play the card - so I think interaction isnt similar enough to the term removal
@@NitpickingNerds yeah I can see that. So something like 7-15 removal pieces and 0-4 hate pieces might be appropriate (depending on meta and decks of course)
I will be building a Liliana tribal deck with a sub theme of zombies ....I will be including Grave Titan. One of my favorite creatures from back in the day
Thanks, I now have about 16 decks on the table scattered around, cut a quarter of each deck but have no plans yet on how ti 'fix' them. But I'm now officially my own deck doctor =/
@@Nokaflai I did focus on another 20 that are basically finished, tested many times and run great. It just takes a while to get ideas for decks started and decent
The mention of lands decks, and also the mention of wincons, has me remembering I need to tweak my tatyova deck. It really doesn't have many wincons... Just drawing cards...
Regarding criticism of that "other video", the two things I will agree with from them are: card draw is more important than you initially think, and keep your curve as low as possible. I try and figure out what my first 4 turns look like and try to build the deck around those, and I choose Commanders that are card draw/advantage engines in and of themselves. Other than that I agree with you that the "you need X ramp cards" and such are arbitrary and pointless.
Great video.one must curve mana with consideration cause my yoriko deck curves out at 3 or 4 but I don’t count the big mana spelled I get to the top I had so much fun building that deck and it has one by killing everyone with spell on top
I was watching this and my ankle started itching. I ignored it because I thought it would go away on it's own. It didn't so I went down to scratch it and saw a massive mosquito going ham on it. Moral of the story is, no matter what's happening it's always worth learning better ways to build a commander deck.
Land count is always my favorite part of these videos. It always feels so spastic when some creators throw numbers out. 37-40 land in any average deck? Why? Command zone explain. Finally something that confirms I’m not a lunatic for cutting lands. My “competitive” deck is down to 28, my lands matter deck has 47 including mdfc’s. Everything in the middle is 32-35, with my hardcore control deck at 37 because it basically wins the game at 10 mana and missing drops hurts.
I’m looking for a way to build a deck based around tutoring storm crow, then equipping it with auras and enchantments, and killing someone with it. And not gonna lie, this helped.
I don't think you need hundreds of data sets to get your ramp right. I really do feel like making sure the "percentage chance of getting it by whatever turn you want it formula" is basically always right. because I've constantly used that, deviated from it by doing what you said (trying a bunch of games and just changing a little bit at a time every 10 or so) just for every single time I've tried to end up right back at the exact ratio I started with because the math is good enough and my experiences eventually prove it. 😂
I would like to see some examples of the lands, because anything under 34 seems low. I usually split it 64 / 36 and most people I know do the same unless it's an outlier.
@@zaine7715 It's pretty fun, odd stuff like flame rift, into Maga, traitor of mortals, into fling for huge damage can be really fun as it comes from basically nowhere. Play some flexible X cost creatures like stonecoil serpent, endless one ect., play them for free after something like price of progress and you've got a 10+ power creature for 0 mana. Consistancy is not amazing, it's not really competitive but with a few tweaks, some loot effects and a few choice pingers (cryptolith fragment, stormfist crusader) to always let the cost reduction/cast requirment work and you can get a decent six power level deck on a pretty modest budget.
My standard commander deck building technique, no matter how many videos I watch:
- Encounter a fun-sounding tribe
- Choose a suitable commander
- Go through all kinds of angst narrowing down to about 60 of that tribal type
- Add about 5 artifacts that help tribal
- Add 35 lands
- Lose
>be me
>encounter fun sounding tribe
>hey this commander seems fun with that tribe
>hey these cards compliment the commander and what I wanna do with the tribe well
>end up with about 20 tribe related cards in the deck
>mfw I built another meren sac combo deck
@@vallewabbel9690 me when i tried rogues. Got whacked 2 times by elves/yuriko and went back to tripping through storm turns
@@vallewabbel9690 same but >mfw it's just another flicker ETB deck
Making a fun new tribal deck!
-oops all changelings!
Maybeboard ca 30-70 cards.
LANDS: 30-36 adjust for MDFC lands 0-8
CARD DRAW: 6-12 Consider card advantage as part of your draw if it's very impactful
SINGLE TARGET REMOVAL: 7-15 Consider counter spells that trade 1 for 1
BOARD WHIPES: 2-6 Count things like Bane of Progress that wipe all of -something- not just creatures
RAMP: 10-16
WIN CONDITIONS: 3ish? This doesn't count single cards, but "A+B=Win" type combos or critical mass situations. Too many, especially with high cmc components, is unfocused, slow, and give you too many dead hands/draws.
MANA CURVE: lower it. Play more spells per turn and be better set to win. 3-Drops get crowded, look to cut for 1s and 2s here. You're likely not going to play more than one 4+ per turn, and having several in your hand leaves you with nothing to play. Higher than 4, you're looking at like...2-3 cards of each at most.
More general tips in video, I'm not gonna transpose it all lol. This was for quick reference.
Not all heroes wear capes.
More useful than the video lol
Don’t forget your 2-3 pieces of graveyard hate!
Their avg mana curves (over 10 decks from each of them):
0: 1.9
1: 12.9
2: 16
3: 16.7
4: 9.5
5: 4.4
6: 3.2
7+: 1.9
Note: for these numbers, they adjust cmc of cards like MDFC (0), blasphemous act (1), treasure cruise (3) to what they typically cost in a game
For any of you looking for the TLDR on this video, here it is:
If you're running black in your deck. Grave Titan is an auto-include. At all times. No exceptions.
You're welcome. Just saved you 41 minutes.
This is a gross misrepresentation!!!
I LOVE YOU.
i appreciate the dedication to the joke
@@commandermop9436 The only joke is NN overlooking just how powerful I am.
@@gravetitan1321 i agree. i like playing with you
Last time I was this early Grave Titan was a must include in every deck with black!
💀
Is grave titan still good as a haymaker for varina lich queen?
I wouldn’t call it a haymaker but any means, I personally wouldn’t put it in varina but in the end it’s up to you
@@NitpickingNerds I run Grave Titan in Yawgmoth. My favorite flavor Kappa
Its still good aslong as its the promo
Instructions unclear, bought 99 mountains and Ashling the Pilgrim
Darnit we should have clarified
still better than every deck that's running grave titan
But ashling isn’t even a 7 drop!?
@Sullivan Randall whoa a bot thats replying and is even complimenting the other bot. Scammers are getting a little better at deceiving still preying on the gullible.
You are going to need alot more mountains if want to be competitive.
I'm sure this has already been suggested numerous times and, to some extent you already cover a lot of your deck building choices and insight during your commander tune ups videos, but have y'all considered straight up building a new deck from scratch as a video or possibly a stream?
I would love to see this.
@@enemene22 same
Definitely, similar to the precon upgrades but more detailed
Me right now making a deck... Takes a day and it's not finished...
I used to struggle making decks. Videos like these are always helpful developing my own rules. Recently i made the rule that any card over 3 mana to cast has to be key to my decks strategy. All my decks feel much better.
Finding what works for you is Good. I don’t think it needs to be a hard and fast rule but if it works for you then continue doing it 😊
Okay so I am just going to assume this video sums up to: if running blue, black or green you must run at least 1-2 crocodiles
People are really getting the wrong ideas from this XD
I also learned: Grave Titan STILL SUCKS LOL
Here's a new topic for you guys to do shows on. How about you break out decks that you've built...then
break them down into categories and explain why you have that amount of each type (Ramp, Card Draw
Target Removal etcetera.) That way people get a visual example as well.
“Too many board wipes”
Avacyn “absurd. Destroy everything all the time!”
I'm a yugioh player but my cousin recently got me into magic like a month ago. So fundamental videos like this are super helpful for me in understanding what the heck is going on. Hope there's more in the future! But you guys are by far the channel I watched the most when it comes to magic (even thoug idk what is going on half the time). Very enjoyable videos and topics and cool hosts. Keep it up guys 🔥
Forget to always do the exact same combo every game.
Also welcome to the adult table
Check out the command zone
If you're in/near Louisville KY, then you should definitely check out through the decades... I play there either Friday or Saturday most weeks
the first thing i do when i built a deck with green is i check if protean hulk is still not on the banlist
10/10 comment right here
@@NitpickingNerds I see what kind of people hang out in the comments around here...
will prob not happen with flash banned
Finally, a channel that isn't afraid to talk about 30 land decks. I have been picking up commander since I got back into the game 2 years ago and I was surprised to see how a well-tuned optimized deck can work very efficiently at 30 lands (or less). Cream of the crop maybe, but it's no fun sitting with 7 lands and not enough spells to do anything.
Its also no fun to mulligan 3 one mana hands or to have 6 cards in hand and 2 mana on turn 3. It really depends in the cards in the deck.
I typically run 33-36 lands in my decks, depending on the cmc, and can easily say over the course of years I have experienced both all cards and no lands and all lands and no cards. At the end of the day, no matter how well optimized the deck it's still a game of chance
Beezy: you cast your commander every game
Yuriko players : Ha!
Play!
Hold my Inalla.
1- Land count: for me is 34-38, depends on the mana curve (always target no more than 4). Importantly, I do count MDFC as spells rather than lands, so I end up having extra lands to not miss a drop...
2- RAMP: 10-12 hopefully for Turn 2...
3- Card draw/sorting/advantage: I always go for 10 Minimun, but this number changes depends on the cards used which can make it less than 10. I.E: faithless looting, ponder, mind spring all count as 1, but things that are meant to give more than 1 like Guardian project and beast whisper (green because WotC belives green must have everything :( duh!) Actually count as 2 for me...
4- Boardwipes: 2-5, if the deck is creature heavy it gets 2, otherwise it gets 4-5 depending on how control oriented it is...
5- Spot removal: 8-10 this is counting creature/artifact/enchantment and its composition depends on the color. I.E: green is fight spells, blue considers counterspells as removal...
6- WinCons: these depend on the sinergy and strategy of the deck, but it should have at least 5 bombs/wincon....
That is my structure, and I based it around guides and decktechs from Command Quarters, Command Zone, and of course, this Lovely channel the NitPicking Nerds
This is my third time watching this video. I come back to it when I feel I have practiced deck building a bit and want to level up, picking more of the nuances up to build better.
I am also sending it to a friend because everyone should see this.
Another video where i get to enjoy those moments when Joe Cherries has a funky blue pointy hat.
Blue slimes make good headwear.
Your friend thinking your last name is Cherries is the real life equivalent of the scene in Bob's Burger where Bob's friend Teddy thinks his full name is "Bob Burger"
I am living in a cartoon
Not sure anyone will see this comment so many months late but I have a system I use for "enablers and payoffs" and things of that nature for all my decks. It's not perfect, but it gives a pretty good starting point for deck building, and it's abstract enough that it can work no matter what kind of deck you are trying to build. I figure some people might benefit from this idea too, so here it is.
In order to make sure I have the right numbers of cards that advance my strategy, I try to have at least 30 'Setup' cards, and at least 12 'Hinge' cards. I use these abstract names because what defines a Setup vs a Hinge card is going to be different for every deck, it all depends on what your strategy is.
So you'll need to define what constitutes a Setup and a Hinge for your specific deck.
Basically, a Setup card and a Hinge card together form a synergy of some sort, that makes the two cards together better than each one would be on their own.
The way you tell the difference between Setup and Hinge cards is what each one does when it's the only card you have. Setup cards on their own are not particularly powerful, but they still do something. Hinge cards on their own, do absolutely nothing unless you have a Setup to use with it.
So for example, a simple Hinge would be an anthem enchantment... it does absolutely nothing by itself, but if you have creatures (which would be the Setup in this case), it makes them all bigger
You can also have cards that are both Setups and Hinges at the same time, like for example, Canopy Tactician in an elf deck. It is itself an elf, so it can be used as a Setup for any other card in your deck that cares about elves, but it also gives all your other elves +1/+1, so is also a Hinge for elves.
Setup and Hinge can be really flexible since you can use these terms for any strategy. Some other decks I have where I have used this way of thinking for examples;
Sidisi Graveyard deck: Setup= any card that puts more cards into graveyards. Hinge= any card that either wants to be in the graveyard, or cares how many cards are in graveyards
Omnath Landfall: Setup= any card that puts lands onto the battlefield. Hinge= any card that has a landfall trigger
Tuvasa Enchantress: Setup= any enchantment. Hinge= any card that reacts whenever you cast an enchantment, or cares how many enchantments you control
Kykar Spellslinger: Setup= any instants and sorceries. Hinge= any card that reacts whenever you cast an instant or sorcery
Florian Burn: Setup= any card that deals damage to opponents. Hinge= any card that gives a benefit based on how much damage was done this turn.
Once you have defined what Setup and Hinge are for your deck, you can then ensure you have a minimum of 30 Setup cards and 12 Hinges and you'll have really good odds of drawing into those pieces with appropriate frequency.
Hi guys, just wanted to say that ARCHIDEKT has a feature where you can CUSTOMIZE the mana value/CMC of your cards. For example, I always register Fierce Guardianship as a 0 CMC card.
It can change the average CMC of your list, sometimes going down, sometimes going up (I tend to register Cyclonic Rift as a 7 drop. And I try to guess at what minimum value I would cast my "X spells").
You have to click on the blue arrow that shows on the cards in your deck to do that.
Same with Moxfield
BRUH
I have literally been staring at Archidekt for the past few hours doing the mental checks for Fierce Guardianship & etc when looking at CMC organization. You just saved my life.
Archidekt remains the top tier deckbuilder!
Moxfield better
there's a kid at my lgs who only knew me as Judge. a few years ago i stepped down from the judge program. the kid didn't know what to call me afterwards because he never learned my name.
What better than listen to you guys lumber along a deck-tech session as I catalogue my collection as well as create an Alesha, Who Smiles At Death deck at the same time. Awesome! If you are a veteran or a noob, listening to different deck building opinions will make you a better overall brewer over time. I been giving White some love in my new brews lately, since I love White, weak or not. Ironically, I have been disliking Red more than White the past several brews I have made.
Hope we helped your brew skillz!
@@NitpickingNerds You guys have done more than enough to offer me small ideas that could shake off some of the rough edges of an idea I may have made! So yep, you guys are helping even us veterans to the game. Love you both much.
I would find a deck building video pretty valuable. For example i would like to see how you guys would go about building an ur dragon deck. How does the commander ability affect how you view your mana curve? What lands should i run in a deck that can utilize every color? What cards would you pick and why? What cards would you avoid and why? Overall good video guys!
Ahh, the pre moxfield sponser days. Using this a year later btw. Great video! Still very similar to what u all do a year later. Crazy good quality! Thanks!
When I start a new deck, the first thing I do is rummage through my collection for any cards that generally do the things I'm looking for. Once I have a pile, I sort it into general categories (card draw, ramp, etc) and then try to choose the best 9-11 cards in that category. I generally also have a miscellaneous group for cards (generally 20+ or so) that include bodies, wincons and such, as well as any cards that I didn't choose from a previous group that I still reaaaallly want to play. Later, when I want to upgrade my deck with a card, I look at the existing cards that fill a similar role and try to assess if it better than any of them at the same/lower mana value. I have a very small play group, but it generally works out alright.
This video was worth the watch for the Cultivate analysis. Newbie EDH builder and I needed to hear that. 💯
Gotta be careful on the curve in the reverse way you guys talked about as well. Cyclonic Rift cost 7 not 2
I just want to say when I joined your patreon I 100% felt as much love as possible without feeling uncomfortable. I didn't believe it till it happened. You guys are the best. Love you guys
As a dedicated monoblue player, it was so liberating when I stopped running counter spells. I could then stuff all the other powerful things blue does in there.
I also like separating my spells into their individual spots like I'll have a stack of enchantments, a stack of artifacts and so on
This definitely helped me. I've wanted to build a thraximundar deck for so long. But the high CMC for that ability made it hard to build around. I settled on building a deck that is based on edict effects and cards that sacrifice themselves for interaction and value (mulldrifter, plaguecrafter etc) to buff up my commander. I had a lot of trouble laying out the deck and building anything consistent. Having useful tips like having multiple win cons and playing lower mana costs really helps me shape how I want this deck to go. Y'all definitely have got a sub from me!
Revisiting this video to get more perspectives for my Be'lakor demon tribal deck and even a year later it helps a ton. Definitely cutting a board wipe now, kind of tempted to replace some of my regular kill spells with demons that kill something on entry, etc. The section on curve hurt me though lol there's too many good 6+ drop demons to pass on. But at the same time like 20 ramp cards including the likes of Urzas Incubator, Nightscape Familiar, Rakdos Lord of Riots, and the new Herald of Slaanesh it shouldn't be too bad.
I did this a bit differently, and went with finding my gameplay first, and commander last.
This lead me to knowing what colours I wanted to build, (along with a theme) in this case, blue, black and green, and then I chose my commander last, looking at what blue, black and green commanders where available, and then picking one that suited the theme and strategy.
(The commander in this case helps the strategy of the deck, can be a massive boost to winning, but is also not essential in winning the game)
I was able to power through the glitchy version before you reposted it, still a great episode!
Rewatch to help support the channel!
As a general rule of thumb I try to ensure that cards I play always replace themselves thanks to synergies. For example having permanents that reward you for playing a certain power/toughness, or instants or sorceries, play grave recursion, play manarocks that can be sacrificed for a card, play some cycling lands. Having options on having the card either impact the board or select cards/ draw cards for you is the key to winning EDH. It's hard to put my thoughts to words in text but I hope this helps someone
99.9k subs and you just earned another! I hope you guys get to that 250k! You deserve it! Now go get that Obi Wan!
Most of my decks are only built with one win con in mind. But I'll discover others while playing the deck. It's always a pleasant surprise.
I also have a habit of including cards because I'm fixated on. Example, I ran steel of the godhead in every deck I could just because I thought the kithkin looked sick summoning the sword. Ran kaiga the tidestar only because I liked the name.
How do you decide on a game plan? What are the archetypes for decks? I decided to get into MTG about a month before the pandemic hit last year, and I'm sure someone at my LGS could explain all this in about 10 minutes, but that access is closed off for a little while longer. The game plan is something every "how to build a deck" video talks about, but it seems like the most difficult thing to understand for a newbie player. Any thoughts?
Thanks for your time guys, I really like the channel.
Thank you for all these amazing videos! I have a playgroup that has adopted newer people, people with lower cardbase, and people that don't have crazy deck building knowledge. I share SO MANY of your videos. Thank you for your knowledge, and for not being afraid to share your opinion on things that others don't listen about when it comes from me haha. Thanks for everything, keep it going.
We love to share our knowledge and are glad you share our content!
The constant hate for Grave titan fills me with joy, finally someone hates it as much as me
Why do they hate it? Overplayed?
I mean, whipping it back into play from the graveyard with Araumi definitely does not suck
@@chachi_arcola LOL I do the same with Meren :P
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 I didn't say it wasn't useful, just hate it
Ill give twice as much love to counter the hate
Trying to build my first commander deck. I bought aura of courage my buddy bought a precon as well. I thought it was super awesome and I have an affinity for pirates trying to build my own deck. We played all Saturday and got steam rolled.
I feel it's a good litmus test to say that when you're looking at 3-drops you have to realize that necropotence costs 3.
Gotta be honest, this is a good advice
With ramp it really ranges a LOT, I'd say honestly between 5 and 25 can be optimal depending on the deck... and my Goreclaw deck has like 30 ramp/mana advantage cards, which may sound to some people like WAY to much, but it's actually pretty close to ideal as the deck wants to consistently have access to 20+ mana on turn 5. The deck also has 15+ ways to draw cards as well as 5 Tutors so there's not much risk of flooding out with ramp cards
EDIT: The nerds mentioned Aesi right after I left the top part of this comment, so I wanted to say I also have a Tatyova deck with only like 2 draw spells and probably 40+ ramp cards as well as 43 lands, and that deck functions perfectly because of how busted Tatyova is (Why is she only uncommon?!?!) The deck wins by turn 5 or 6 every time, and is probably my hardest deck to stop from going off. My point is that as the Nerds mentioned, these numbers vary per deck and there will be outliers, but I wanted to emphasize that in some decks the numbers will not just be different from the general recommendations, but will be DRASTICALLY different.
That sounds awesome, may I have the deck list for the Goreclaw deck you mentioned?
Firstly, I just wanted to say that I've been binging all your videos, and I love your content (dare I say, more than Command Zone)!
I wanted to add that synergistic deck building is so much more fun than using strong staples. I had an "ah ha" moment the other day when I was adding in removal and was going to use "Swords" AND "Path" in my white artifact matters recursion deck. I came across the card "Glass Casket" and said wow this provides so much more synergy with my deck even through it is strictly worse--I'm cutting Path! It felt so good to use that card over a boring old staple.
Synergistic decks are usually cheaper too as many of the cards are usually not in high demand.
Dispatch would probably be my #1 choice in white artifact deck
I loved the video because I have so much to do to improve my deck efficiency. But i feel like this was a "command zone did it wrong" video and i agree mostly with you all especially about the variability of how many of each card type you have but i would imagine they would agree with you they just decided to put a single number rather than a range. Regardless i love all your videos thank you for putting in the time and work to share this info with us.
They didn't do it wrong but there were a few things we disagreed with so we mentioned them in the video rather than beating around the bush.
Cherries is such a believable last name, I really thought it was your real last name. My mind is blown!
Soon it will be
thinks so much guys, your videos are helping me learn the Fundamentals of Deck building.
This video is awesome because it applies very helpful and objective information with a reasonable source for the info, the video also incorporates a lot of core deck building for cedh which is a combination I have been looking for in videos and channels.
Just as I was looking to refine my deck, this gets uploaded. Impeccable timing
We get that a lot! 😄
Love it
Thanks for the video!
Regarding the lands, I've personally seen that my decks run smoothly (in the sense that I rarely miss land drops and I'm rarely flooded) with 37 to 40 lands counting MDFCs. I think 36 lands counting MDFCs is just too low. Also with a low curve I would run more, since you really don't want to miss land drops in any case.
Agree on this one. 36-40. Depending on colors/plan.
I run 30 in my Sen triplets Deck and I'm usually either flooded or screwed just last Friday I notion thief into a wheel drew 15 cards ten of which where lands
Nah, with a lower curve you most likely are running agro. If that’s the case, you want more card draw and a lower amount of lands.
Good rule of thumb for lands start with 40 and take out 1 for every 2 sources of ramp not perfect for every deck but a good starting point.
Been waiting for this one boys!
It's HERE
In terms of board wipes, the only time I run more than 2-3 is in my Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate fliers deck since she can protect my army of creatures, wipe away every other creature and then swing and beat face.
Just the best mtg content creators out there no doubt... Really appreciate you guys!
Thanks Steve that means a lot!
Just now watching this. Great video guys!
About 23 spells, about 29 créatures, 8-9 artifacts, about 35 lands, 1 general who must be a Legendary creature with the same color of the deck...here we go ...
That's a simic deck if I've ever seen one.
My fav deck is an Oloro combo control deck, I think I actually cast him like 1 out of every 6/7 games
Seriously appreciate this TH-cam video u guys are the best
I tend to use more generic single target removal like terminate because having it at instant speed is just so important. I'll run plague crafter as 0.5 of a board wipe, but for single target I stick to swords to plowshares, nature's claim, etc. I make sure almost all my draw and ramp has synergies to make up for it though.
That is understandable. It is just different approach than we take.
Thank you guys, this really helped alot. You offered a lot more details and explanations. You didn't just throw numbers at a wall
Our goal is help player learn not just tell them what to do :)
@@NitpickingNerds I'm very new to magic, so I'm taking in as much as I can. Your videos have been very informative.
This video was awesome, guys. Thanks so much for the help!
Honestly, Wylie Beckert is one of my favorite artists in Magic. Especially Vesuvan Duplimancy.
Something I’m doing that I’m curious to hear other opinions about is to not call it “removal” but “interaction”. So a card like hushbringer or Rest In Peace would fit in this category as it interacts with the opponent
Idk I think hushbringer isn’t really removal, as you can still technically play the card - so I think interaction isnt similar enough to the term removal
Those are hate pieces and they kind of fit into another category by themselves
@@NitpickingNerds yeah I can see that. So something like 7-15 removal pieces and 0-4 hate pieces might be appropriate (depending on meta and decks of course)
Awesome video guys. Thanks for the time stamps.
I will be building a Liliana tribal deck with a sub theme of zombies ....I will be including Grave Titan. One of my favorite creatures from back in the day
Keep putting out the great content guys. Love the channel. Ill be here all the way
Thanks, I now have about 16 decks on the table scattered around, cut a quarter of each deck but have no plans yet on how ti 'fix' them. But I'm now officially my own deck doctor =/
You probably need to play way less decks and focus on a few you love. Play them a lot and keep tuning them.
@@Nokaflai I did focus on another 20 that are basically finished, tested many times and run great. It just takes a while to get ideas for decks started and decent
Yay! Moxfield gang united!
The mention of lands decks, and also the mention of wincons, has me remembering I need to tweak my tatyova deck. It really doesn't have many wincons... Just drawing cards...
That's a victory for your soul, though :P
@@NitpickingNerds true! Josh Lee Kwai would certainly be proud.
My battle cruiser dragon deck has over a dozen creatures at 6+, and that is a magic number for the dragon auras from Scourge.
18:00, ahh yeah, I always lay out the curve and the three drops, YEESH
great video. my favourite so far. good job NPN.
Love you guys. Ready to watch you for decades 👌
You misspelled millennia!
Regarding criticism of that "other video", the two things I will agree with from them are: card draw is more important than you initially think, and keep your curve as low as possible. I try and figure out what my first 4 turns look like and try to build the deck around those, and I choose Commanders that are card draw/advantage engines in and of themselves. Other than that I agree with you that the "you need X ramp cards" and such are arbitrary and pointless.
Great video.one must curve mana with consideration cause my yoriko deck curves out at 3 or 4 but I don’t count the big mana spelled I get to the top I had so much fun building that deck and it has one by killing everyone with spell on top
You guys are my #1 magic channel !
Thank you so much that is very nice 😊
I was watching this and my ankle started itching. I ignored it because I thought it would go away on it's own. It didn't so I went down to scratch it and saw a massive mosquito going ham on it. Moral of the story is, no matter what's happening it's always worth learning better ways to build a commander deck.
Love your passion guys, keep it up. To the death!
Land count is always my favorite part of these videos. It always feels so spastic when some creators throw numbers out. 37-40 land in any average deck? Why? Command zone explain. Finally something that confirms I’m not a lunatic for cutting lands.
My “competitive” deck is down to 28, my lands matter deck has 47 including mdfc’s. Everything in the middle is 32-35, with my hardcore control deck at 37 because it basically wins the game at 10 mana and missing drops hurts.
My friends elf deck is only 12 or 19 lands...
@@jamihcustodio6808 we don’t talk about elves. We run more board wipes and pretend they don’t exist.
@@harrisonheppelmann7938 😂... I wish that was true... But no one is fast enough to board wipe his elf ball in turn 3 kill all...
Cut Gravetitan and put in Gerald's messenger. Gives infinite damage (better than infinite mana :D) in the ashnods deathmantle combo.
This was very helpful, thank you! I am looking for synergistic one drops now 😁
I’m looking for a way to build a deck based around tutoring storm crow, then equipping it with auras and enchantments, and killing someone with it. And not gonna lie, this helped.
"Switch Cultivate to Wood elves in a creature based deck"
Me: I keep both.
Just here to make sure the gravy bowl is in its place.
Was it??
Re-uploaded without glitches. 👍
We're back, baybee!
Was this re-upload? Or did I just get back from the future?
Re-upload! We had reports of a lot of buggy glitchy behavior from the previous upload. The quality was way worse
@@NitpickingNerds cool because I was about to go play the lottery 😆
BTW love the video
Thanks! If this was a life advice channel we would recommend never playing the lottery anyway 😂
13:13 Twenty 1 Twenty 1, the man is a man of culture
Let the countdown to 250k begin....continue? I dunno but I wanna see that 250k!
[pulls magic conch string]
“Maybe someday”
I don't think you need hundreds of data sets to get your ramp right. I really do feel like making sure the "percentage chance of getting it by whatever turn you want it formula" is basically always right. because I've constantly used that, deviated from it by doing what you said (trying a bunch of games and just changing a little bit at a time every 10 or so) just for every single time I've tried to end up right back at the exact ratio I started with because the math is good enough and my experiences eventually prove it. 😂
Could totally tell you were talking about the command zone when beezy made the comment on ramp not being a straight 10
glad to know another fellow MTG Gaymer and a great environment as got several groups of MTG Gaymers
I literally asked for this like a week ago. Thank you
I would like to see some examples of the lands, because anything under 34 seems low. I usually split it 64 / 36 and most people I know do the same unless it's an outlier.
Revisiting this video before I build an Animar Artifacts deck
Joe was an absolute king in this video
What did I do?
@@NitpickingNerds the goals bro and the way you say "when" real chad stuff
My mana curve in most decks is 3.5 but my highest is 4.5 in a momir vig since I can search for a mana dork
Can't wait to see what kind of overboard thing they'll do at 500
Me looking at my Rakdos, lord of riots deck: way too many six and seven drops
Also me: forgetting i'm a cost reduction deck.
Some decks have very strange curves
Is the deck fun to play? I’ve heard it’s too inconsistent.
@@zaine7715 It's pretty fun, odd stuff like flame rift, into Maga, traitor of mortals, into fling for huge damage can be really fun as it comes from basically nowhere. Play some flexible X cost creatures like stonecoil serpent, endless one ect., play them for free after something like price of progress and you've got a 10+ power creature for 0 mana.
Consistancy is not amazing, it's not really competitive but with a few tweaks, some loot effects and a few choice pingers (cryptolith fragment, stormfist crusader) to always let the cost reduction/cast requirment work and you can get a decent six power level deck on a pretty modest budget.
Wylie Beckert has the best art in Magic, period!
I like this guide better than the command zone. More experience-based than production-based.
Thank you that is very kind :)