VHS modified as high quality audio recorder part 2

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 75

  • @TigerBoyRS
    @TigerBoyRS 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I used to dream with a day, when good old analog equipment could be modded and upgraded easily. With all the buildup knowledge and extensive components market. Unfortunately, this kind of electronic nirvana, became impossible.
    You keep showing us that it is possible, but engeneers like you are rare.
    I love those vintage tape formats, always will.
    Cheers 🇵🇹

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks for the nice words...!

  • @rodrigobelinchon2982
    @rodrigobelinchon2982 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    There is even a digital emulator of the dbx process, it is a plugin called "Satin" , i think the name is chosen because of that silky quality we associate with analog hi-fi. Congratulations on your custom VCR , it's impressive you did that at home. Cheers !!

  • @SFtheGreat
    @SFtheGreat 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Respect for sneaking something youtube doesn't ike into the video.

    • @SS-hz4jo
      @SS-hz4jo 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      After listening to him talk for 4 minutes, I figured it isn’t something he says. 😂

  • @marcbrasse747
    @marcbrasse747 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    For a moment I thought you had crossed a Fostex A8 with a VHS into a hifi 8 track recorder (Not the US 8track!) That brings back many memories! I used to work with the A8 as a multitracker, synced to a Roland W30 sampler / MIDI sequencer and then used a Sony PCM 501 converter combined with an Akai VHS video recorder for digital mastering. The 501 was the “consumer” version of the PCM 701. I actually bought that before DAT was even available. Believe it or not but the PCM 501 tended to produce dropouts during recording at 16 bits. They were rare but mixing long tracks could be a bit hit and mis in a time of non-total recall mixing (Those where NOT the days, eh?). No complaints about the audio quality us such though. The 14 bit option was less prone to dropouts but had a clearly audible loss in sound quality. More comparable with good MP3. I still own all that stuff but obviously do not use it anymore. Nowadays my main recording axe is a Roland VS 2480 16 to 24 track total recall system. Also already ancient compared to the latest technology but I never felt the need to upgrade after that. So stable! Best mix of hard- and software.

  • @passiveincomeband8984
    @passiveincomeband8984 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is really cool. I always wished people or a company made a new 4 track or 8 track recorder that used VHS tapes so people could record songs analog much easier. I use an 8 track cassette recorder currently.

  • @kerzwhile
    @kerzwhile 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Isn't this just what the Alesis ADAT was?? 8 tracks..? 🤔 but the fact that you did this at home is incredible!!❤

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks... no ADAT was a digital system, and special on this modification - it's fully analogue!

  • @pauldudeuk
    @pauldudeuk 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    love the picture in the background lol

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There is more than electronics that keeps us buzzy... 🙂

  • @andydelle4509
    @andydelle4509 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wow. I did something similar to a type C 1 inch reel to reel broadcast machine. Now as you may know the type C format is direct color recording with an FM band of 7 to 10mhz. So there is very little side band energy below 1mhz and no color under signal. I used the AFM audio card form a Sony Betacam (not Betamax) professional VTR. These have two linear audio tracks and two FM audio tracks, channels 3 and 4. The AFM frequencies are 310khz and 511khz. Note that the type C machines must have the optional sync head to maintain continuous RF recording and playback. The sync head is optional because the TBC can recreate the missing vertical interval from the servo signals but that won't work for AFM audio.

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Worked for years with C format (Sony) technical and video-production. But never in my wildest dreams i had the nerve to modified it (it was the master machine). So my deepest respect for your modification. Never knew that the AFM frequency's where so low?

  • @gordslater
    @gordslater 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    fantastic

  • @swilwerth
    @swilwerth 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Pretty sure hifi-decode can decode a rf capture of it!
    Thanks for the update!

  • @colloidalsilverwater15ppm88
    @colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Outstanding work. I have bought VCR HIFI, just to have a "deck" relying on vhs. Those tapes are 3 hours long, not like standard tapes...60, 90 or 120 minutes.

  • @h0ll0wm9n
    @h0ll0wm9n 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Made many mix tapes on my Sony Beta hifi in the 1980s. Yes, that AFM pumping distortion was audible.
    I did't know that audio-only AFM-based hifi stereo was avail for the commercial sector -- back in 1982!
    In a way, the Mhz AFM recording system reminds be of DSD (also MHZ based).

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No it was not available. This VCR was my own design and modification. It was a 'standard mono VCR!' Many af the recorders had a 'pumping' audio, not because of the compressor, but due to the automatic volume control. NOTE: that the first Betamax(en) worked completely differed from VHS.

    • @KR1275
      @KR1275 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@TheoFaber As far as I know only the NTSC Beta Hifi recorders worked different. The PAL Beta Hifi had separate hifi heads in the drum. The NTSC models used the video heads for the hifi audio signals as well. The European SL-HF100 had 2 video and 2 audio heads (and a stationary audio and erase head)

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You are (partly?) wright, only the first NTSC Beta's where different. To my info: the later models NTSC and the PAL versions had 4 heads. Much later Sony build the VHS models, the same as the other brands (depth modulation).@@KR1275

    • @andydelle4509
      @andydelle4509 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@KR1275 Yes the NTSC Betamax had enough spectrum space to squeeze in four AFM carriers. That's right four carriers for stereo. The problem is that the head azimuth was set to cancel track to track crosstalk at the video FM carrier frequency. Therefore it did not work in the AFM area around 1mhz. So they needed a separate AFM carrier for each channel AND each head. The color under in NTSC Betamax was 688khz so that gave them the needed spectrum space without resorting to depth recording with separate heads. But both Betamax and VHS also needed phase trickery to get around the head azimuth problem for color under. The major advantage here besides saving the cost of two extra heads was interchange. When you optimized Betamax playback for maximum video RF, the AFM was optimized as well. VHS with separate AFM heads has an issue where you could track good audio OR good video, but not both from a third party tape.

    • @andydelle4509
      @andydelle4509 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@TheoFaber Yes, that's correct about ALC, but there was also a recording compressor and playback expander in the AFM processing chain on both VHS and Betamax HiFi. But I agree it worked very well although some picky audiophiles claimed to hear it. But those people also claim to hear differences in power cords and now even Ethernet and USB cables as well. LOL!

  • @alphabeets
    @alphabeets 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Really impressive work. Have you very closely compared the resulting waveforms of this analog system compared to a digital recording? I would be very curious if there is any difference. The specs seem to be better with a digital system, no?

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No - not compared. But digital will be even more steady than analogue on a oscilloscoop. And yes; a digital system can have even better spec's. But the modification is from 1982 and meet even today wonderful spec's. The people how love analogue, will be in heaven with this. And when you use something that makes you happy, measurements do not matter, unless you own a studio.

  • @borisherfurth2828
    @borisherfurth2828 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What a great idea! It really got me when you were talking about the drop out compensation and head switching point. I am currently trying to find a solution for an issue I have with NTSC Umatic connected to Sony‘s PCM adaptors PCM-1610 & 1630: only a machine modified by Sony and a real NTSC only machine work perfectly. All my NTSC-capable machines produce a popping sound in the audio every three seconds although their recordings play perfectly on the working machines. People from the US who used to work with the systems back in the days told me I need to deactivate the DOC and adjust the head switching to happen in the vertical blanking not to interfere with the video. Any idea how that can be done?
    And: when is your universal adapter for VHS is ready?

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Note that the converter I design will not be for sale. The design is fine for technicians who are DIY hobbyists. Have sufficient knowledge and measuring equipment. For them I will make a video in the future with an explanation, what can and cannot be done with partial schematics. The problem with you machines does not seem to be a drop-out problem. Drop-outs happen randomly over the tape and not every three seconds. It seems to me more like a mechanical or tape-running problem. Of course the take-over point of the video heads must be in the vertical blanking and not above it, as is usual with UMatic. That is very easy to adjust (small potentiometers) on the servo board. Turning off the drop-out compensation is a good idea anyway. It only damages the data stream coming from tape. But even then I have some doubts. I would also take a close look at the tape run and transport of the machines. After all, they are not that up-to-date!

  • @icollided
    @icollided 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I masterd to VHS back in the 90s. Before DAT tapes where affordable.

  • @Badassvidsz
    @Badassvidsz 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I also use my PANASONIC NV-HD660 to record music and it sounds AMAZING .
    VHS machines and tapes are superior to classic audio cassettes and decks but i do love then too .

    • @batmandestroys1978
      @batmandestroys1978 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Even more superior than most reel recorders! DAT recorders were the best, when they were working!

    • @Badassvidsz
      @Badassvidsz 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@batmandestroys1978
      Maybe in low speed 3' 3/4 but superior than 15 inches and especially 30 i don't think so .
      But Do you have any proof of that ?? anyway ?

  • @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933
    @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Yeah, but avlc and indeed mic input on Panasonic hi-fi has advantages? It's impossible to distort audio on deep layer helical hi-fi anyway? But extra compression and limiting can give very nice effects? You are the boss. Love this. Dag. 👍

  • @jameslaidler2152
    @jameslaidler2152 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really clever work. However, there are vcrs out there which can actually turn off the video signal to record just Hi-fi sound on a tape. Obviously this would be on the professional broadcast type decks, but even some "prosymer" type home decks had audio dub buttons on them etc. It was a thing.

  • @tatteredhope911
    @tatteredhope911 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    ...i was talking about this with my dad the other day! This is absolutely amazing!!! Sir, is there a way that i can get ahold of you and talk to you about this 8 track audio recorder?!?!

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Note: this machines are the only (proto) examples and are not for sale. With country are you in? You can give me your e-mail adres or a temp one, i wright back in my beste English :)

  • @DDaniels3000
    @DDaniels3000 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    this is so amazing, i would love to purchase one of these from you asap

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you, the video is not yet in HD, so quick you are. Unfrt nothing is for sale. They are 1 of a kind, last one is not fully operational. The small one is.

  • @donsurlylyte
    @donsurlylyte 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    very impressive

  • @jackiechan8840
    @jackiechan8840 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Your English is excellent

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you... but it can be better!

  • @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933
    @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This guy is the new van gouf!

  • @brun20
    @brun20 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    An external unit like those PCM modulator/demoludator in the digital domain that were popular back in the 80's will be great for this Hi-Fi Adventure. I know you don´t want to sell it, but it would be great if you could share some basics to do it like a DIY project for analog audio enthusiasts. The other thing is that one tape can hold up to 6 hours of high quality audio.

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Spend this year time to design (external unit) just that.
      The prototype is out of the test phase and it’s confirmed, that not every modulator / demodulator can be used. Maybe I make a video, purely to explain what you can do and have to leave out, by building a unit yourself. My design will be for public use, unless the Chinese offer me a fortune ? For that purpose the info it will be aimed at tech diy people.
      Modifying a already HiFi VHS machine to audio only use, is the most simple solution. You don’t have to build anything.
      Yes @brun20 you are correct, there will be people that appreciate an external unit, so any old VHS can be used as a HiFi recorder. Still, it has to be connected to some part of the VHS. My proto type has a on-board sync generator, so no modifications are necessary (servo system). Also most VHS machines have integrated circuits that makes it impossible to modify anything inside. (audio level control)
      Note that; however the sound quality is really good (better than some reel to reel) but in theory not a mastering standard. Unless you are a studio tech, still it’s very high quality sound, that comes near CD and will give you a analogue feeling. Very good s/n ratio and a great dynamic range.

    • @brun20
      @brun20 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@TheoFaber I really hope the Chinese or any other audio enthusiast could invest in your idea to be available for everyone else who doesn't have the skills to DIY.
      I really appreciate your work because in my opinion Hi-Fi is the best analog audio reproduction, but the major problem with the format was the crosstalk and the dropuouts due to the nature of the very low bandwidth that is shared with the video portion.
      In the NTSC domain you could hold up to 8hrs of great sounding analog reproduction on a single cassette, no other format could offer you that. It could be not a mastering standard, but taking in count that most masters were transfered to inferior reel to reel, I think this would be superior to most of those recordings.

  • @QUADBOYification
    @QUADBOYification 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great project, i wonder if it would B easier to record (playback) a video-signal made with PCM coding. A Composite AD-DA converter.

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No, it's quit difficult because of the switchover at the and of a frame (head a and head b). And it's digital. Diff systems exist like DV and DVCam....

  • @PeterMilanovski
    @PeterMilanovski 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Makes me wonder if using a similar process to record onto compact cassette would firstly work and secondly have any improvement in the reproduction of sound....
    Not sure how DCC works but it's probably similar? Maybe?
    My thought process is that by using a carrier signal to record audio on a compact cassette, you are moving away from amplitude modulation which can give you dropouts to frequency modulation which theoretically should make dropouts a non issue....
    It would possibly need a good and strong carrier frequency somewhere between 20-20khz although I'm thinking that there's probably a relationship between what the carrier frequency is and what the audio signal has to be on top of it?
    Yeah I don't know much about it, I sort of understand the basic properties of it's workings but that's about it....

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Very nice thoughts ! for only it was possible. DCC used a special head with 8 (?) tracks, to record a digital stream in parallel. And the other answer is more technical. To deviate a carrier FM you need at least 5-10 times the highest audio frequentie. Mostly in use is 75 - 150kc. VHF walky tolky's (speech only) use about 25kc. To have a reasonable relation between the carrier and the deviation you need to go in to the hunderts of kc. Best is above 500kc. All this is not possible on a audio cassette. But the thought is beautiful and proofs that you have the fantasie and curiosity to go far in electronics!

  • @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933
    @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Don't get confused with adat. Alesis fostex, tascam on v8 is digital. This is pure analogue frequency modulation.

  • @Capturing-Memories
    @Capturing-Memories 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Could this be made in a modern PCB with schematic?

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes - if you take the time for it, Specially if you want more than 2 channels... from this machines, there is no PCB or schematic for publication. Sorry...

    • @Capturing-Memories
      @Capturing-Memories 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TheoFaber I can make a PCB from a schematic and send it for production but I'm in no level of knowledge to design a HiFi schematic from scratches, it is not my field of expertise.

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Again thanks for your kind offer, but there is no complete schematic available. Most of it, is in my head🥳@@Capturing-Memories

  • @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933
    @thehistoryofchingfordwater8933 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    More videos please!

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      There will be...

  • @dwellerrealm
    @dwellerrealm หลายเดือนก่อน

    What is a make and model of 8-channel VHS audio recorder shown in a video at the first second?

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's one of a kind, an illustration. My own design and has no brand or type nr. Only 2 channel - rest was never build, but it's possible.

  • @quadradosuave
    @quadradosuave 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    nice work,
    curious to hear an rock song on that

  • @meonline44
    @meonline44 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice subject (and Nice poster)

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      We like to put energie in both...

  • @PuccaLover83
    @PuccaLover83 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I also watched video 1 and don't understand if all of this is the exact system of VHS hi-fi applied to a VCR that did not had it in origin (maybe took from another vcr), simply disabling video heads, or you have designed a YOURS system which is superior to the one anyone knows. In any case, if the video heads do not record, how can the vcr correctly remain in synchronism joining signals from audio heads A and B with precision, avoiding a buzz sound??

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You are partly wright, the recorder had no HiFi audio, only (low quality) video. I used (1982) a pcb from a scrab HiFi VCR, but only the audio part. Disconnected in my machine the original video part and used the rotating head to record audio. So the original video heads are used for audio. That was my idee, leave the video part out and use the entire bandwidth of the tape for audio. There is space for more channels. Also the audio will not be partly erased by the video, as in the original HiFi designs. And indeed, when I measured the RF (audio) output from tape, the level was enormous and turning the tracking control gives no effect. So a great improvement on the original HiFi recorders.
      But than (you wright again) there was the problem of tracking / synchronization. I know that from the start. So I started developing a stable (X tal) signal for the servo systems. In this machine, only the frame synchronization is compared with a pulse, deriving from the video drum. From my x-tal and divider a pulse is written - in rec - by a stationary head (original design) like the stationary audio head. And also in playback used to synchronize the servo’s. So in playback the pulse from tape is compared with the pulse from the video head.
      The problem of ‘buzzing’ is not there. By correctly adjusting the take over point from head A and B AND using the same video drum for record and playback, buzzing is not measurable or audible. But another reason is the absence of erasing by the video head, like in a original HiFi machine. In all the years I never heard anything disturbing like drop-out’s or so. Only with complete damaged tapes from defective machines.
      All this was done, because in 1982 going digital mend a lot of money. And designing / building something yourself - out of the question. Hope this story helps?

    • @PuccaLover83
      @PuccaLover83 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TheoFaber All understood! So in practice you have built a circuit to drive the fixed head (which normally manages mono audio track and sync track) to have a very precise synchronization between tape position and rotaring heads. Also not partly erasing audio with video heads like original design helps to have a strong and stable signal. All clear!! Uhmm I am very curious to the quartzed synchronization circuit :) I am sure a great difficulty is to integrate it with servomechanism of vcr, to let them work normally without a video input. But I also think that hi-fi audio tapes recorded will be playable with perfect quality only in the same machine: in another one maybe the distance between rotating drum and fixed head is different, so the synch has to be regulated...

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@PuccaLover83 No - I am not clear. The existing audio / ctl head (stationary) is used. Only it’s driven by an extra pcb (see film) of my own, how has a standard video proc IC (verry cheap) that produces a standard bl/w video sign. That is connected to the video in port - that’s all. I good have made special modifications to the servo systems, but I did not (verry buzzy in 1982). So synchronization of the servo systems, is reassembly standard. In rec and play back. Sorry but I do not remember the type number of the IC(s). Also the schematic’s I draw, are lost in time. But every stable 50 / 60 hz pulse can be used, by simply inserting the pulse on the wright point(s) in de servo circuitry.
      You are correct, by stating that every recorder you want to reform, will need it’s own solutions. So knowledge and schematic’s are necessary. Some measurement equipment will be helpful. A scoop will bring some light in the dark.
      The old audio track is also still in use and the quality is terrible. Wow and flutter (and noise) are going to the sealing, see film 1 at the end. But still, after all these years, the HiFi specifications are a dream.

    • @PuccaLover83
      @PuccaLover83 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TheoFaber yes I did understood that your special circuitry drove the fixed head of vcr! I have seen also first video. A question: why have you also transplanted the fm modulator of hifi audio from another vcr to this one? Did not was simpler to modify directly that vcr? Maybe its servo system was more complicated to work? Or maybe because you wanted a small, portable machine?

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@PuccaLover83 I used an existing pcb from a scrap recorder, because from audio to video head is a long way. First there is a low pass filter (30kc) then a measured level control (manual with meter) a noise reduction (like Dolby), then a pre emphasis, so the audio level has to be correct. I did not have the time to design all that in 1982 incl the play back with all the filtering. I did design the rec / playback amplifier for the video drum, see film. That was necessary, because the extra pcb did not have one. After the fact, it was stupid, because the rec/playback amp from the original rec is now unused. And was absolute useable for the purpose.
      Now I have time to spare, and maybe I built another one, with more channels, just for fun. And do the entire design. Maybe … because it serves no purpose, unless you are a audio analogue enthusiast. Which I am not.

  • @mireillepinzuti183
    @mireillepinzuti183 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have purchased a VCR 6 HEADS hi fi stéréo and I didn't modified any part of it and I have very good quality sound

  • @user-camdrod
    @user-camdrod 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Это лучшая вещь для записи звука!

  • @heavymetalnewsdesk
    @heavymetalnewsdesk 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    There is something wrong with digital. Digitally recorded, digitally mastered audio sounds empty and hollow. Analog is superior in every way

  • @3dmaxuser
    @3dmaxuser 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video thank you :)

  • @jameslaidler2152
    @jameslaidler2152 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really clever work. However, there are vcrs out there which can actually turn off the video signal to record just Hi-fi sound on a tape. Obviously this would be on the professional broadcast type decks, but even some "prosymer" type home decks had audio dub buttons on them etc. It was a thing.

    • @TheoFaber
      @TheoFaber  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you! But 'audio dub' is not possible with HiFi recording on the video-heads, it will erase everything that was previously recorded. I never seen a (VHS) recorder with dub and switchable video, only on UMatic and above. But if you can, pls send a link to some info. And yes, those where the day's. But still a lot of people love analogue, so i still design new (old) equipment for HiFi recording on VHS tape. My next video will be a DIY VHS / schematic for the technicians. Build with ordinary components. But there is nothing wrong with digital!!!