My great great grandkids... if I have any... will be able to listen to my vinyl collection one day. What are they going to do with my streaming deck from 2024?
When was the last time you owned a turntable? If so, what was it and it's associated equipment (tonearm, cartridge and phono stage). Thanks in advance.
You blew it and said turntable. Maybe it was the all in one....Rega? Is that the name? I don't know. Don't pay attention to that stuff. Whatever it was it's great for playing $3 records.
I would never own a TT that was a "serious" thing... Not my cup of tea... They sound phenomenal... Just not worth the money or aggravation/ lost time..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I feel you brother! Especially if you did not grow up with them then there’s no attachment. You seem like you’re a lot younger than my age group (mid-50’s) so if you’re in your late 30’s or early 40’s like our good friend Jay, then yeah, I totally get you. When you were coming of age musically speaking LPs were already on their way out. You grew up on CDs so no wonder you have no emotional attachment to vinyl format no matter how good you’ve heard it sound. But at least you know it has sonic potential at some level. Thanks for that. You’re not a loss cause after all 😜
At first I was starting to bristle when you were calling vinyl a scam. But then when you explained yourself I found that actually you agree with me on the subject. I sold Hi-Fi in the mid-70s to early '80s. And I abandoned vinyl for about 10 years and pulled my old audiophile turntable out around the turn of the century and now I have four turntables and a few thousand records and it's a truly fun hobby. However, there's no way I'm going to try to tell anybody vinyl sounds better than any other format. For starters the noise floor is even close. By the way, a person can start off with a darn good turntable for under $500 and even less if they go used. I think the main thing you're trying to dress here is the audiophiles that seem to care about the equipment more than the music I used to be an audiophile, now I'm a music lover. I've even been in a dozen or so live bands now. But I look at the whole thing this way: Audio files use the music to listen to the equipment. Music lovers use the equipment to listen to the music. And just one of the thing. I think one of the reasons finalists popular and CDs may be making a comeback is that people want to actually own the music and not be at the mercy of a streaming source. There's also just so much more to playing records than just listening to the music it's an Interactive experience.
Yes, we are on the same page... By the way "streaming" does not require the internet as you suggest. I stream my personal collection from my computer in my office to the computer at my system. I LOVE that saying you just said about music Lovers and Audiophiles... thats GREAT ! Ill remember that forever and tell others ! Its totally correct.. and a great way to say it..
@@OCDHIFiGuy by using GOD holly power and prayers or you have a cable from your ofice till your home, so no internet or phone cable as in the mid 80´s just puff and here it is,streaming without using internet or anything you can call it like a private network but to do that you´ll need internet conection so how do you do it, firewire cable with kms appart with a local license for installing a cable through out where ever you work and live, that´s funny and i thought i had a 5 year degree on informatic systems either than only 3 years of study in electronic comunications since the early 70´s , in 72 i had a real good job ,i could buy my two favorite cars, marry and have my first son, but what do i know about high-fidelity i´m in my 5th marriage, only me to blame ,i´m a real OCD guy, the reason why heroin was so good to me
Stop embarrassing yourself and repeating the nonsense about audiophiles using music to listen to their gear.True Audiophiles love gear as much as music.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt you must have me confused with someone else. I sold hi-fi in the 70s and early 80s and I was an audiophile at one time. I've rubbed shoulders with a lot of audiophiles and a lot of reformed audiophiles. i.e. I stand by my statement and consider your ad hominem attack to be a bit ironic. 😎
This is like politics. The 1% of each extreme side bitching at each other. Nobody in the middle cares. We have what we have and can afford. Records. CDs.Streaming, Hi res. etc.
@@OCDHIFiGuyYou're hilarious!. I didn't give up my vinyl for CDs, I didn't give up CDs for streaming. I like owning my music. I will say digital sounds better than vinyl most of the time but not always.
@jaybird123xx It always does. Digital is just superior. Even with old music, when it is ripped to digital. It's done on equipment that costs a fortune and restored to it's original glory and correcting the many flaws of the tape or vinyl recording. In the end getting a better end result than any anolog copy. The fact this is even a debate is ridiculous.
Also, there is significant loss of sound quality going from master tape or digital to vinyl. Vinyl will never sound as good as the master tape or even the DAT or digital recording.
I think it's interesting how much people equate accuracy with enjoyability. Personally I've been paying close attention to sound quality enough that I find it hard to listen past a system's flaws. But accuracy isn't really what makes something sound good to me. As long as distortion and noise are low enough and the frequency balance is within a reasonable proximity of normal I am able to tune out the system and refocus on the music. So while I personally agree with Mikey on digital being more accurate than vinyl, that doesn't equate to me thinking it sounds better. I listen to vinyl all the time, largely because I like the vinyl mixes better than a lot of the digital versions of the same music. My statement has always been, "Vinyl and cassette and even FM radio have long been more than good enough to let most people listen past the equipment and into the music." I have to admit however that the better a system is, the faster I go from analyzing to enjoying.
A problem with streaming is that a lot of older recordings get re-mixed and re-mastered, mostly to fit the majority of listeners and the way they consume music. That is trough mobile phones and cheap ear buds. The re-mixed and re-mastered are made to work well in every day life, in the gym, on the subway, running or biking, mostly in an urban location. Compression is the typical way of doing it. I so which that the streaming services could offer us more then one version and have a HiFi version available.
I agree. I have a great DAC, but my turntable/cartridge combination produces a sound that’s better to me. It doesn’t have to be for everyone and I know there are great digital systems.
Why do one group have to set upon the other? Why can't people just appreciate that everyone has their own taste and ears and that's all that matters surely? I listen to both vinyl & digital and I'm getting sick of people berating the others just because they don't agree with what the others do. Live in peace guys and enjoy whatever you have. I invested a decent amount on a TT a couple of years ago and play it through Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers and it best sound I've ever had. So an analogue front end going through digital DSP speakers! Go figure but to my ears its sounds incredible. The best thing you can do for your sound it to either treat or correct for your room - and it took me 30 years to believe that!
the problem here is not related with personal taste ,i don´t know if you have played electric guitar or drums or one analog instrument , but what we listen on cd isn´t the sound of a guitar being played is just a sample of what was heard lot´s of bands played guitars and if one is used to listen to an Lp and than buy it´s cd version thinking it would be an improvement as it was advertised but ends up with a badly recorded version of what one used to listen . i had a equalizer at home but i never had used it also have a litle home studio where i went to get some old monitors this all to make cds sound close to the sound one listened for a lot of years but i own thousands of cds but some i never played them others they sound very good depending on the style of music, i never stoped listening to records but in 1993 i started to buy cds because i had enough money to buy a new system and bought a good cd player ,when buying cds that i had in vinil and hear them i notice something was wrong ,mainly guitars were mufled, if one doesn´t know the sound of the band ,only thinks that they were really strange or why do older people say this band was incredible, dynamic in sound is lost. but has i refered earlier there are cds with great sound
lepet42, my job is to save people time and money. If someone understands the liability, cost and time involved and still wants to go Vinyl, then all the power to them.
Right on the money lepet42 I did the same and really enjoy critical listening a good pressing vs pressings of lesser quality. I stream as well and enjoy the simplicity of that medium and its inherent strengths. So I enjoy one medium as much as the other, they both have their pros and cons.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I enjoy learning a lot from almost all your videos, & believe almost everything you say. Thanks! You should know, you have master tapes. Wonder if they sound as good as reel to reel tapes, or if reel to reel sound as good as cassettes. Just my opinion of what I hear, not exactly facts. Reel to reel tapes dont sound as good as vinyl. Some say vinyl touches the needle, while cd laser touch nothing, is why cd dont sound as good. Hiss is inherent in analog & tubes. Cassettes have hiss like vinyl does. Remove the hiss on cassette with dolby noise reduction ruins the sound, seems like cd with no hiss ruins the sound. The original Santana Abraxas on a good turntable, I dont think any cd of that has ever come close. Two more examples are: Yes-Closer to the Edge-You & I. Alan Parsons- I robot. After 1971 most but not all, cds & vinyl sound the same, which is terrible. I have 300 perfect sounding records, I can only stand half of them on cd. But I have about 20 cds that I can rave on, on sound quality. I like old tube recoded albums. I do listen to cds more. Some say that digital cd is better, but they dont know that their cd says AAD.
I love my records I have kept nearly every record from my childhood. I would never argue it sounds better just different. I sometimes swap out the few speakers I own just to change up the sound to get a different perspective. The best budget table would be the Nottingham Analogue Horizon.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I've got about 1000 albums. A lot of them are from my younger days, I was fortunate enough to save every album I ever bought and took care of them, and I'm 70 years old. I've got an empire turntable that I've owned for over 50 years and a 500 dollar turnable my daughter bought for me a few years ago. I find myself streaming most of my music now. I do spin records but not half as much as I did 5,10,15 years ago. I'll be damned if I would spend 3 grand on a turntable, 2 grand on an arm and then even more on a cartridge. I still by an occasional record, mostly used. Not the 100 dollar LPs. My bluesound/denafrips combo sounds just great through my system.
First the specification of digital is better than the turntable. Second most solid-state amplifier have better specifications than a tube amplifiers. I can go on forever but here are a lot of people like vinyl and tube amplifier. On my system the turntable sounds equal or better than digital version. The problem I have with digital: First I don’t listen to a whole song or album. I spend more time skipping through different songs. Second, I don’t relax when listening to digital. When I listen to my turntable, I go into a trance listening to the music. Everyone likes good distortion. What do people like better c-cord on a acoustic guitar or a c-cord on a Les Paul/Fender going through a Marshall/Fender amplifier. Most people will pick the electrical guitar because the distortion and energy. If you go by specification everyone would buy the cheep Chinese equipment that have better specifications than most HIFI equipment.
@craigkrauter9611 - We listen to music. Not specs. With the distortion found in some gear, the sound is more musical and engaging. Thus the trance you speak of. Some even fall asleep listening to certain gear. That means they’re engaged and relaxed by the “distortion” - regardless, seems the goal of hifi gear should be to engage us and possibly relax us
Everybody is entitled to enjoy music their own way - there's no universal right way or wrong way. However, here's a counterpoint to the electric guitar argument. The distortion is an *intentional* artistic effect. I really like hearing that, but at the same time, I want the singer's voice and other instruments to be as true to the original as possible. The contrast between the distorted and clean sounds coming together in the performance is what makes it special to me. The medium or electronics that add coloration, even if pleasing, will do so to all of the sound, which is not what I like.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Well, the only thing I’m saying is that the information on a vinyl record is what’s going to last the longest (if you have music in your home, and you want it to last)…
@01blaval I get your point, which could be argued. Vinyl degrades. Digital does not. Eventually, styluses will no longer be made or will be prohibitively expensive, so playback of said Vinyl would be in question. I believe a properly stored hard drive would last as long or longer. Interesting thought however. Both of them will last 100 years or someone's lifetime. There's no real reason to not copy or archive something anyways, and you can't print a new Vinyl record off an old one, but copying digital tales a few minutes.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I get your point too (your point is the general one in the world😉) And of course information stored on vinyl is not able to be copied. But if you get a scratch on a vinyl record you can still play it (try that with a digital track😉) you’ll need copies and copies… and also several hard drives for security (I don’t have much trust in hard drives or servers, especially in the long run) and there will also be problems transfering old digital files to new equipment (it already is). Well, let’s have a follow up on this in 30-40 years from now, and let’s see if my Spotify playlists are in better condition than my vinyl collection…👍🏼😉
Hi Mikey, I agree that it makes all the sense to keep today's digitally recorded media in digital format. More convenient, cheaper, easier to put together a good / very good sounding rig for it. However, turntables still have a big role - music recorded pre-digital era were not recorded in digital, and those so desirable one take sessions are much more frequent than todays edit-ad-nauseam fast-food music industry era. Sure, master tape is the master tape, but there's only one master and thousands of audiophiles. We had master tape listening sessions with my buddies vs high level vinyl rig, and the vinyl can sound very, very close to the point of giving complete satisfaction to all listeners. That's provided you have an early pressing - which is still much easier and cheaper to find than a master tape.
Remastering of analog tape recordings is done digitally. "The Beatles" remixes are not made by yet again running deteriorating tape. The tapes have been digitized, and the remixes are done with a copy of those. And the idea that one can hear the difference between analog vinyl and digital vinyl is an illusion. But keep playing the vinyl, under the illusion that the stylus-in-groove DISTORTION is instead warmth. And want it "warmer"? -- then add tube amplification, which adds additional DISTORTION. "I like what I like" is not "audiophile". An audiophile is concerned with the nature and quality of the source, and everything between that and the speakers. How much does your modern amplification add of PROCESSING before the sound gets to the speakers? Those are fundamental. Those are the basics. It is knowing how the recording was made so one doesn't mistake it for something else. And that means one understands the actual definitions of recording technology terminology, instead of turning those to jargon, and making up out of nothing what seems to be "missing".
"music recorded pre-digital era were not recorded in digital, and those so desirable one take sessions are much more frequent than todays edit-ad-nauseam fast-food music industry era." Hogwash. "The Beatles," among many, edited together various portions of various takes to make a final take. And a minority of recordings were "one take". And TAPE HISS is the RECORDING -- "Yay, analog!" -- of the tape running across the recording head. And THAT is DISTORTION. But I guess for the thick-headed there is no purer recording of music than for the music to be beclouded and obscured by DISTORTION. And another FACT: DIGITAL recordings on PLAYBACK are transformed into ANALOG -- but WITHOUT the DISTORTION.
I have a love/hate relationship with vinyl, I’m not one to fetish with the physical medium, they take so much real estate in my 1000 square foot condo and what about the cartridge, each time I play a record it’s costing me 1$ of cartridge life amortization, that’s if I don’t slip and ruin it all together. Speaking of cartridge, is it well aligned? Can the VTA, VTF, Azimuth be better? What about tracking force? Ouf! Never ending. And the price of damn records, crazy! Believe me, I’ve tried to rid myself of vinyl, tried different CD players/DACS, eventually gave up, I’m now resigned to use my DAC for music discovery only, I stream through tidal and once I like something I start searching for the vinyl. What can I say I’m a vinyl junky. And for those of you who have commented that vinyl can’t do bass, grow up and become an adult, or ask one to help you with your setup, because you are definitely doing something wrong. I’m not trying to defend vinyl and please don’t stop bringing medium down, the more people stick to their clans and start bitching wars the more interesting the internet. Great entertainment.
One thing overlooked by vinyl enthusiasts is inner groove distortion. The linear speed of an LP slows toward the center of the disc which requires a boost in the top end to compensate for linear speed loss
Absolutely nailed on. The bass via RIAA /preamp is like powdered egg being added back in later to thicken things up. Vinyl is the audio eqivilent of white noise CD for helping babies go to sleep - but for adults. Simple physics. I work in audio - radio. Pink noise is being added to the original audio through the friction playback (degrading) system of vinyl. That's the 'smooth' effect and affect that is cited before they cash. As Mikey says - vinyl is a lossy format....but money has sniffed it out, corporates and flippers have come to feast of FOMO of 'authencity anxiety'
How do I get tapes of records I would like to have in good quality? I love to listen to trivial music(e.g. Madonna) but there's records, for example 2008's "hard candy", where the CD version has been destroyed by the loudness war. So I was forced to purchase the vinyl(cost a few hundred) and albeit better it's still "miles away" from being of optimum quality. Same thing with SIA's records... I can only listen to vinyl versions of some of her albums - CD and streaming services only feature the "sonically irradiated" recordings. Is there a solution to this without knowing somebody in the industry?
What I like best about my vinyl rig is the expense & inconvenience and as the late great John Peel famously said "life has surface noise" however jokes aside what you didn't touch upon is the fact that a record (and im talking non digital pre 80's LP's here) could arguably be closer to the source than the same album released digitally that has had countless remasters and applied compression to squeeze the snot out of the dynamic range. I don't listen to a lot of so called audiophile recordings (in which case id say digital perhaps sounds better) and my musical roots are grounded in classic rock, metal & pop so by and large nothing remotely demo material but man if I played you the original UK press of something like Iron Maidens "Somewhere In Time" and A-B'd it to ANY digital copy available today you'll be blow away by the difference in sound! Also given my ADHD type personality playing a record forces me to sit down and chill and not jump from track to track, album to album so with that in mind i'll stick to my antiquated records and just enjoy them for what they are......Cheers.
Record said vinyl to digital and walla All the dr and extra flavour should be there. Works best with someone who has a very nice clean copy of the pressing and good required equipment etc. What you'll miss is the record itself playing music softly in the centre, assuming your gear is setup there - at lower volumes, this could sound like added air or spaciousness of sorts.
Yes I agree I have orchestral works recorded on an Ampex 350-2 at 2 track 15 IPS. It was stolen so I have a Tandberg TD20A SE at 2 track 15 IPS 10-38Khz at 7.5 15-30Khz . Sounds fabulous. This is my deal. Linear tracking table only for direct disc or what I can’t get on tape. Reel to Reel for 3 3/4 Tandberg 74B. For 7.5 and 15 the Big Tandberg. Maybe I compromise for cassette with a Tandberg cassette player. Can this sound system differentiate between microphone types and brands? Can I hear the basic LRS or LRS+ at Best Buy?
You don’t have a turntable and you don’t listen to records. How can you compare it? It doesn’t even interest you to try it. What you are saying is a theory. In reality, some digital sounds better than vinyl and some vinyl sounds better than digital. Depending on source. Cheers!
LOl.. No, these days they mostly use digital to master for vinyl. What is the sample rate of the digital master of the vinyl. What is it compared to say redbook CD? @@OCDHIFiGuy
Idiotic babble. Vinyl, tape, and digital all sound different and all have their strengths and weaknesses for the music lover/collector/audiophile. Some of my vinyl records sound dramatically better than the digital file; others don’t sound as good. I don’t own any tapes because I find it impractical. i don’t understand why you bobble heads keep going on and on about the same issues. Is the manual transmission obsolete? I don’t care, I prefer it. Does an Apple Watch keep better time and is far more functional than my far more expensive “antiquated” mechanical watch? Yes. I DON’T CARE!
His point was that technically vinyl is far from great sound source. Wheter you prefer it's inperfection like distortion or fact that for great sound you must spend thousands and thousands of money, or the fact it takes a lot of time to clean them, is irrelevent. There are people like Fremer who think that vinyl is most capable sound source ever, which is false. I used to collect vinyl, I used to love it and spent a lot of time and decent money for turntable, cartridge, preamp and cleaning products. And after several years I understood it is pointless to go further because not only vinyl technically isn't best source, but also mastering mostly has digital steps. And buying old records isn't way out either because it most likely will be in a condition which might be good but already with additional pops, clicks or noise which are impossible to get rid off.
Question: I've been listening to vinyl pretty much all the time on my little system for the past year. I'm considering to go back to digital. I don't critically listen enough, or IE I don't have as much time to change records lately. I'll keep the record player it in my rig, but for me it's more of a 10-20% of my listening experience. I recently got Tidal again and have been listening through my system (with no external dac, just through the macbook...I know I know). I've noticed I'm experiencing the same thing that I did when I was all digital - listening fatigue! It's strange...I just don't want to listen to the music, or I need to put it really low. I don't get this when I'm listening casually on the laptop speakers or any junk stuff. And I've noticed that I don't get that with the records. I have Wharfedale 80th Denton bookshelves. A vintage Yamaha CA-1010 integrated amp. In my previous digital rig I had a Rega Dac. Same listening fatigue issue. My question is, am I delusional? Secondly, does this go away when you get a better dac? And how much money does it take to remove the listening fatigue?
@@derekviveiros2628 it's not waters I swim in, but my vote goes to Dangerous Music Source. It's a ProAudio optimized DAC that's made in USA and sounds 👌 🔥. You just have to get past no remote control and a ProAudio look ... but it delivers sonically. For real. And it is $1K.
What a great Video. You are the first one to have the combination of balls and great content about this exact subject! I've been talking about this for so long and I have the same exact beliefs. Now the only exception is for the occasional super thin sounding 80s cd pressing that does not sound pleasing at all or does not have great synergy with the current system being used. That is the time where I enjoy listening to the vinyl version of the album. Again Yes its about preference over actua; objective quality and its not because of digital as a format being inferior.
This is like telling a classic car guy that modern cars costing a tenth of the price are faster, brake better, handle better & are more reliable. True, but you don't fall in love with a modern car. You're using the same argument that the measurement guys saying you're a fool for spending more than a $1000 on a dac, pennies for cables, power chords. People love records, love is not rational. Nobody loves a file.
You have completely missed my point. I LOVE Records... they are totally cool like old cars are. But to enjoy a car ride you DONT need an original Shelby do you ?
@@Zockopa OK. I'm listening. How does a CD differ from a hard drive ? You know they flake apart eventually, right ? And if you copy them and serve them locally, you don't need a service.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Why should i bother with that at all ? Makes no sense to me. If i want to listen to a CD i use a cd-player and if i want to listen to a record i use a turntable. As simple as that.
@@Zockopa perfect. You should do what works best for you. I personally don't want walls nor drawers full of physical media storage in my listening room.
Sorry Mikey but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. I’ll keep this short but for most real vinyl lovers it’s about the ritual , tinkering with the gear, tweaking, setting it up etc and I believe if I remember correctly you like to tweak your gear as well?. As far as vinyl sounding better than digital and vice versa I don’t get caught up in that crap , if it sounds good it sounds good no matter the medium. I do both vinyl and digital and I have 2 reel to reels , it’s all fun for me and the satisfaction is enjoying the music on a rig that sounds good to me 👍
You are looking at a Otari MX5050 Mark 3 and to Rik below, I have a lay down washing machine size Studer A80 ..this is so I can make dubs .. thats what copies are called... For 300 bucks youll get a copy of a copy of the master. 3rd gen, sometimes second gen. They are still sick sounding. I actually bought a collection of originals though from a recording company in Los Angeles.. Just google master tapes and you'll find whos selling them.
You’re overlooking the vast library of older but wonderful classical and jazz recordings that were originally recorded to tape and then mastered to vinyl. Many of these are not available in digital format or on a $400 tape. And even when they are available in digital they often have lost something in the conversion process. By ignoring vinyl you’ll miss out on top conductors, top orchestras and best performances, as well as often stunning sound quality. Sure tape playback can be best, but most older titles are not available on tape and the prices when available are crazy high. I listen to digital and tape as well, but I would not want to lose access to these great recordings only available on vinyl! I think many audiophiles are not that interested in these great recordings so long as they have demo tracks of more modern music in digital formats. A recent example: my friends and I were comparing the top 7 or so LP recordings of Rimsky-Korsakov’s Scheherazade. We had fun comparing the different interpretations by world-class conductors and orchestras and top recording quality. Try so set up that experience with tape or digital - can’t be done. PS: You want to rant about madness? How about the lunacy of “demoing” a high-end system over TH-cam. THAT insanity deserves your wrath far more!
Please explain why there are all kinds of DACs and different price points. If they are all just converting a digital signal into an analog one to send to your speakers, why are there $20 DAC's (for my Cell Phone USB C jack to a 1/8" plug for headphones or connection to a stereo), and $20,000 DACs? That is like having 2 calculators that only add, subtract, multiply and Divide say 10 digit numbers. Why would one calculator cost $10,000 to add 0+1+1+0+1=3 and another calculator cost $5 to do the same math and come out with the same answer. Please fill me in, because it just sounds like a money hustle to me.
easy... Digital is a step function. Think of 90 degree angles drawn on paper making a stair. Focus in close in the inside angle of the stair. 20K DACS make a PERFECT 90 degree angle with a perfect rise and a perfect foot tread. Nothing but perfectly straight lines. Cheap dacs are like carpeted stairs with rounded corners on the inside and outside 90 degree turns. In laymans terms "ones and zeros" have an accuracy spec. Shitty DACs have pre ringing and post ringing and jitter.. Killer DACS dont..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Sounds a bit suspect. I have heard very expensive DACs compared to very cheap DACs and with the exception of pretty screens and lots of bells an whistles. They all sounded the same with the same music source. It is probable the same profit grab going on like with simple 25 watt class A amps selling for $20,000 and only requiring about $500 worth of electronics inside their fancy looking boxes to make the audio. Like a Nelson Pass hobbyist amp inside a designer Gucci designed box. You pay for the box. Not the amp. LOL.
@@silviosarunic3234 I am good with sticking to my Vinyl Records and Maxell XLIIS tape recordings I made on my Nakamichi and JVC 3-head decks of all my records. No silly DACs needed except in my phone to convert phone calls into audio it can play on its teeny tiny speaker that is made for all the Digital crap you can throw at it. LOL.
Respectfully I ask: have you looked at Rega turntables? No gold, little mass, no bull but excellent engineering. Just a genuine Q and I get where you’re coming from re those huge (monstrous?) plattered high mass TT’s that seem to represent the Rolex watch of the TT world without the Rolex premium brand sell on/pass value (and all the other qualities associated without that brands fine mechanical engineering expertise). Further: records from the 60’s, 70’ 80’s and even 90’s were recorded analogue so we’re not widely subject to digitisation during the recording process. Many people have such a collection of records and want to keep listening entirely in the analogue domain.
Thanks, oh, by the way I love your videos, and downright truth about the audio industry. In this video, you made me realize how collecting records for 56 years and buying all the CDs to replace the records, and the money spent on a turntable and the cartridges, how much work I put into listening to music with the records, finally realized it's about time to get a nice streamer and a dac. But I still collect my CDs, I think it's time to retire my turntable. Good luck man, keep on pluggin, if it pisses The Establishment off too bad!
I agree, too bad ! Let me know if I can help you make the transition, I help people just like yourself every month.. Do what you enjoy, but Ill tell you , streaming saves a TON of time..
I am someone who loves my vinyl. I spent a few thousand dollars after researching that vinyl could sound better than cd's (the format I grew up with was vinyl and cassettes.... I'm 57) I initially didn't believe that vinyl could sound as good or better than cd's so I had some money to burn and a good turntable so I invested in a really good cartridge. I soon discovered that I also needed a good pre-amp because it wasn't sounding as good as cd's. I bought a good pre-amp and was brought to tears by how good some of my original and new vinyl sounded..... That said, Some vinyl sounds better than cd's, some cd's sound better than any vinyl will. I believe the mastering and quality of the source material is the deciding factor. I started this statement by saying vinyl could sound better then CD's which it can.... but my sacd player (DSD) can also sound better than cd's and vinyl. You are absolutely correct. It's not hard to beat a cd but if you get a DSD file from an original master tape, you have nirvana at your finger tips.
i notice that in the first cd i bought(mainly guitars) , even thought it was the cd player that wasn´t that good but it was considered one of the best in late 80´s
I listen mostly to vinyl but I agree with you! Why I like vinyl is because it has character. I am in my early 30's and my whole life has been digital. I bought my first song "notice how I didn't say album" my first song in 2007 on Itunes 😂 So having an album I love on a physical vinyl print is so special to me, maybe the best way to describe it is it makes me respect the work that goes into an album. Also, I do love how I can play around with the sound by swapping out cartridges and different tubes on my phonostage.
You already make active speaker system just a bit spread in a room. You also show that amp with GaN fet beat tube amp. So why we need all this boxes, as all can be direct on speaker drivers with optical links and proper PSU. At the end all studio monitors are active speakers. What is your view?
That is the fun of CDs I can go to the thrift store and get me a bunch of $1 and $2 CDs and go home and enjoy and try out all types of different music. I even find some autographed CDs! I have found autographed CDs by Bruce Hornsby, The Posies, Aurora, Juliana Hatfield, Cat Power, Lucious Jackson you never know what you're going to find. You even find some mint condition CD's If I don't like some of them, I give them back to the thrift store!
Well said. I enjoy vinyl music for the same reason that I enjoy riding 60 year old motorcycles and have recently woken up to the fact that I was being duped by the so-called "HiFi" turntables I owned over the years. I had to place the stylus in the tracks I wanted manually, and the darned things didn't even switch off at the end of the record! I've now bought a forty year old Japanese turntable that is fully automatic, lets me select tracks I want to hear, and switches off when I fall asleep. "Audiophiles" would laugh at it but I now play more of my old records now than I ever did and I cannot hear any difference from my old Garrard 401 or Linn.
@@jdsofar Technics SL-J33. Linear tracking, quartz locked TT, auto track selection, occupies a space little larger than an LP sleeve. I am amused that people buy something like a Linn and pay more than the cost of my Technics for a quartz locked power supply in the belief that it will sound better whereas the Technics has that as standard.
@@rodfryatt4266 Ah nice thats a really cool turntable. I have a 1200 Mk5 right now but want to get a vintage automatic too sometime. Probably a SL1950 or something similar. Technics is a great brand. I just bought one of their new receivers too the SA-C600 its great for what it is.
There's great digital, there's poor digital. There's great vinyl, there's poor vinyl. let's just be grateful we're in the position to enjoy the best of both worlds as we think fit. And let;s focus on the "enjoyment" aspect
100% agree with you!! Been saying it for years. I have a $900 turntable just to listening to my dad's 60 year old records. I've auditioned a $10,000 turntable and it still just sounds like a poor quality noisey recording. Most people have no clue how bad bass is on vinyl. (RIAA curve!) Your turntable can't product stereo bass below 180hz-200hz it's all mono and the bass is limited in accuracy by an engineer deciding the RIAA curve . All while your system is just guessing on the bass output since the turntable and preamp has to amplify the bass more then the mid and treble because the needle would jump off the recored if played bass at the same dymanic range.
I marvel at all of the turntables built with no isolation. The plinth is coupled directly to the shelf/floor and ultimately the speakers. Just crank up the volume and you will hear the woofers howl due to the feedback loop with the turntable. No wonder the bass is no good. I heard my first Sota Turntable in 1989 and it was a revelation. Isolating the record from the speakers has to be no. 1 priority. The bass will be muddy and smeared due to mechanical feedback from the speakers without isolation. The more expensive turntables have well engineered isolation. If you have a solid plinth then build your own isolation shelf that is good down to 3 Hz or below. If it works for a scanning electron microscope it will work for a turntable.
I agree 100%. I have a $10,000 rig and it certainly doesn’t sound any better than turntables that are significantly less. Why did I do it? I just simply like what I brought but honestly it’s no better. There are test reviews, in which $10,000 cartridges were played on $1000 turntables. A and B test have been done on $1000 turntables compared to a $100,000 Air Force One. Listeners couldn’t tell the difference.
I guess you don't sell turntables. Your statements about turtables just don;'t fit wiith the rest of your work. I have been at this for 40 years. Gave upi on records when the production dried up. I had the priciest digital gear. (DCS/Wadia/Audio Aero/Esoteric SACD etc.) and amps and speakers you have recomended. I woke up when a kid played a familiar tune on a 500.00 vinyl rig. Now i am finally off the merry go round and will never go back to digital.....any digital. And don't try to tell me i bought the wrong digital gear. Love your work....stick to facts and thanks
He probably doesn't sell turntables, but it's not as if he failed the turntable sales exam and has a sour grapes attitude about them because he can't. He's an independent dealer. He can sell whatever he chooses and it's fairly obvious that turntables just don't do it for him. Maybe he can't make as much money selling them? That doesn't seem likely. I think Mikey is passionate about what's important to him and I think that largely drives what he decides to sell. That being said, I personally love vinyl. I like the sound. I don't think it's as accurate as even redbook CD, but I don't care. Perfect accuracy has not been my goal since I was about 18 when I started attending live concerts regularly. I love turntables because they're fun and I think that reasonably decent ones sound more than good enough to really let me engage with the music. Whether you agree with Mikey or not, there's no point in insinuating that he has a bias based on what he has to sell. He doesn't work for anyone else. He chooses to sell whatever he wants. If he says he doesn't like vinyl and doesn't sell it, that's because he doesn't like vinyl, not because he somehow can't and needs to justify it to himself and us.
So for a poor boy like me what's the best dac streamer setup? I've got a schiit sys passive preamp a nakamichi pa5 mkii power amp. I do have vyinl records got em free in the 90s. I built a linn for 500$ Cambridge audio phono preamp. I use it and my chord mojo with my smartphone with tidal. I think it sounds great I do like the ritual of vyinl I also like to have any music any time using just a phone and a headphone dac that sounds better than 5k dacs I've heard. Just my 2 cents would like an affordable dac streamer with volume. Till then I'll use my hot mess. Running diy speakers with carbon fiber paper woofers and dipol ribbon tweeters...😊
I agree with a lot of what you said and that in most cases digital beats vinyl. However, I have a VERY expensive vinyl system, but I have it because I want it and I can afford it. I also think that there are some vinyl pressings that do beat digital. They are mostly 45 rpm records. I also have a top tier digital system and listen to digital at least as much if not more than vinyl. The part of your rant that I don't get is about tape. Reel to reel tape is every bit if not more hassle than vinyl. Plus there are very few tapes available. You may have some secret source, that is not available to the masses, but I have seen very little selection for sale and it all costs $300 to $400. It is mostly classical and a little jazz. If there were the same number of titles available on tape as on vinyl, and the cost were under $100, I would likely ditch the vinyl rig and get a tape machine. But for now, the best, least expensive and most available source of analog music is vinyl.
Reel-to-reel decks used to be cheap back in the 1990's when NOBODY including radio stations and recording studios wanted them. Everyone wanted nothing but a digital machine. CD'S, DAT tape decks and Digital Compact Cassette were all pushed by electronic companies to the max. Laserdisc discs were better because of digital audio, Dolby Digital and DTS. Even a fine tuned Swiss watch sucked if it wasn't digital. That's when Records almost died, and Cassette tapes were on their last legs, Reel-to-reel decks were also hauled out to the curb as nobody wanted to repair them. Unless some clown drools for old school Quadraphonic 8-track tapes, they will never return, and the real reason why they won't return is nobody took care of them in the first place back when they were popular. I do have a question for Vinyl lovers, though. Some of the best sounding analog records ever made were the Reader's Digest box sets from the 1960s . Yet, nobody wants them and you can often find still sealed 10-disc box sets at thrift stores for less than 5 bucks. So why pay $150 for a re-release?
@@AlessandroFilippiUX it’s not placebo, it’s skewed perception. There is no absolute truth here. It’s like arguing about what wines taste best. You can never blind test vinyl vs digital. If I put on Karajan Beethovens 3 symphony from the 60-ties on vinyl or digital remastered it’s so obvious which one is which.
@@AlessandroFilippiUX Nothing about this hobby makes financial sense. It is all emotional. It is about finding music that moves you and then buying the equipment that makes you happy to reproduce it. The sound is not the only consideration for the equipment. Looks, feel, and just the emotional satisfaction in using it are all factors in an equipment purchase. I am fortunate to have the wherewithal to be able to purchase high end equipment. I realize that everyone does not. I have the best (all a matter of opinion) sources available. You can buy different, but not better. Some of this may well be the placebo effect. I don't know and neither do you. However, it doesn't matter. It makes me happy and that is all that matters. That being said, a couple of points. 1. If you think a $20,000 system can compete with a $500,00+ system, you either have never heard a system of that caliber that is properly set up, or you are woefully uninformed. 2. In a highly resolving system, an equalizer most definitely introduces noise and reduces the fidelity of the system. When my current speaker system was being set up and replacing a prior system, I had a high end electronic crossover to a pair of subwoofers. We were trying to decide if subs were needed. We decided that they were not, but when we removed them and the crossover from the system, it was like a veil was lifted. The clarity and resolution improved dramatically. To me that was not at all expected, so it most definitely was not placebo effect. Bottom line...my vinyl system makes me happy and whether or not it can be measured, I think is sounds better than digital in many cases. A lot of other people feel the same way. That is all that matters.
@@AlessandroFilippiUX that's right, and the people buying don't give a shit. It's a power play for many of them. And it's nothing compared to the cost of thier Yachts and personal Jets..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Its about the journey. Digital sounds great but it sounds clinical and too perfect. Vinyl or RECORDS as you like to call them have a completely different delivery to the ears that come across as being more human and realistic regardless of what the graphs and measurements say and I listen to mostly digital myself but prefer how the vinyl sounds. There in no other format that is bringing more and more people into the "hobby" than vinyl. As for the yachts and private jets, 99% of the people who love vinyl and have decent rigs are regular folks who worked their ass off to get the gear they have. Chill out for f",k sake.
I'm getting old - approaching 60. My hearing isn't what it once was. I have tinnitus. I know I have some high frequency loss. You know what I can hear? Snaps, crackles and pops. Vinyl is expensive to buy. It's expensive and a pain in the butt to maintain. There's a reason we abandoned vinyl en masse in the 1980 & 90s. CDs kicked vinyls butt. CDs were programmable. They offered noise-free listening. They sounded great. These days we have HiRes audio files which supposedly beat CD quality sound. Given that CDs were designed to surpass the limits of human hearing and I'm older now, all I can say about that is "That's nice." The thing that is awesome about streaming these days is that they've achieved the same quality that I love. Streaming services give me access to a seemingly unlimited library of music. My WiiM Pro streams 24 bit sound quality. There's no comparison to vinyl to be had. I'm still putting together my system. I guess that's going to be a never ending project. It's called a hobby for a reason, right? Part of that system will be a turntable. I have a Dual 1264 in the shop right now. I'm having it cleaned, lubed and properly set up. When it's all said & done I'll probably be in it for $150. Duals are known to be good turntables - at least as good or better than what you will pay more than $500 for new today. But it's strictly nostalgia. I have old vinyl which I will play. I have some really great old classical LPs that I'll enjoy the experience of playing. But if I want superior sound - it'll be streaming or CD.
as someone who enjoys getting a bit ruined on a weekend and spinning a record I still have to totally agree with you, you are spot on and someone had to come out and lay out the facts
I’ve owned a serious Reel to Reel system and it is by far the best sounding source all things being equal concerning the software. My turntable smokes every digital rig I’ve ever heard or owned including the Playback Designs MPS-8 which is on my rack. A great deal of the information you’ve espoused shows bias and someone who has probably never owned a world class TT system. My tape system was about $10k but the material was far few and in between and I was tired of spending $500 for a tape that might be superlative or may be average. Why people who don’t own vinyl worry about people who do own vinyl I’ll never understand. I listen to digital, tape (used to) and vinyl and it goes in this order from best to less. Tape > TT > Digital.
You might prefer your TT but the fact of the matter is every Iphone (with headphone out) wipes the floor with vinyl - any vinyl - when it comes to preserving the qualities of the original analog signal. Cannot change the laws of physics.
I don’t know if you’re trying to be funny or serious. Since digital is a discrete encoding methodology by nature, it inherently is lossy. Looking at that old Denon table, although it’s fine, is like driving a Miata and then stating that a more expensive 911 is a waste of money on the track. When I speak about things, I make sure I add “in my experience”. I like digital and I do like the MPS-8 but it can not touch my Artisan Fidelity NGS, Kuzma 4 Point and Ortofon MC Anna. Even my ex girlfriend was blown away by what it does next to really superlative digital. The only thing that matters is what we individually like, but some of the things you say seem to be extremely uninformed.
@@donaldnance1135 Of course digital is inherently lossy. But so is analog. Contrary to what many vinylphiles want to believe analog does not have infinite resolution. Digital's limits of resolution are much further away than analog's. A simple test illustrates this beautifully: you can produce an audibly indistinguishable digital copy of analog. But you cannot produce an audibly indistinguishable copy of digital with analog. It is this simple. End of story, game over. It is perfectly ok to like the distortions of analog, of course. But only digital is able to preserve the original qualities of the analog signal from the microphones.
First, using a moniker like Nyquist, I’d think you would know better. I’m not sure what you mean by you can not create an analog copy of digital. First we don’t hear in digital, it is an encoding scheme to represent a continuous sinusoidal waveform. I can absolutely create an analog of a digital signal, it’s called an ADC, analog to digital converter. The fact is, if you think music out of an iPhones headphone jack sounds good, we are operating on two complete different dimensions of what good sound is. I’ll leave you to your digital and I’ll listen to my very very excellent digital and my even better performing analog rig.
I grew up listening to Elvis on 78s , the 1st records I ever bought. Then the Beatles albums on 33. I couldn't wait to see that format go. At age 75 nobody is less nostalgic for the days of records than me. I was an audiophile in the 70s and looked forward to a future of clean, perfectly reproduced music that I knew was right around the corner. And it was! No more cassettes, 8 tracks, records, or unwieldy reel to reel machines. Yay! Then Michael Fremer happened. I like him very much, seems like a great guy, but he's set audio reproduction back 100 years. And people who know nothing about audio, physics, or basic math, buy in. It breaks my heart. At 11 years old I could easily see all the limitations of records. They sucked then and they suck now.
Not really, hearing a great 35MM film to 2 track to vinyl with these new optical cartridges is absolutely amazing...technology has gained tremendously on all fronts
I agree with Mikey about vinyl, it is archaic format with many flaws. However it can sound very good (good type of distortions plus good mastering with no loudness war madness) I am not the enemy of it, especially for old jazz records, classical music collections. I am just not a collector, I am happy with simple tidal (without mqa).
I am sorry Mike but this video was very disappointing. The last few videos just kinda sorta smell of desperation. Don’t know what’s going on but I don’t see where you are going with this. I hope you realize that you are really insulting some of your viewers. Worse thing is that in reality you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to vinyl. You don’t want people to spend money on streamers, pre-amps, chinese DACs because people need to spend money on what you dictate. Sorry but you are screwing up and you will loose folk over these kind of rants they really sound desperate. You say you are being honest. I am being honest.
Thanks Monte, I really appreciate your honesty. Im glad you feel comfortable enough to do so. I wish the world would do this . Insofar as "losing" customers, its simply not happening. Im weeding out people that are not my vibe and gaining those that are. My sales numbers have gone stellar since I started to "piss people off" by speaking my mind. What you are hearing is the opposite of desperate. Clearly Im doing very well because I dont care if I "Lose " people for speaking my mind. A desperate seller pisses nobody off to get sales, they behave and say what the buyer wants to hear. What they say changes depending on whom they are trying to sell to. Thats called "selling out" and acting disingenuous for a sale. I dont do that. I say what I feel and if you dont like my honesty, you can buy somewhere else. Im jaded and cynical because im sick of the High end audio bullshit. I dont hide my resentment, I share it. So Im genuine. I dont need to fake my feelings not to offend you ... If you have depth of perception you understand me. I am a good honest seller and im here to promote my business ... thats it ... Other than that this is entertainment for me. Many others would love to say what I do but are too afraid to be unliked or talked about.. I am here for the buyer and vinyl is NOT needed for good sound... Trust me I want people to spend money, they just dont need to spend ridiculous money for things that will not serve them in the future.
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks for your candid reply. I will continue to watch your videos as in the past I have gotten good info from them. I do think you have the whole analog and vinyl thing wrong and time will tell. Myself, I will continue on my path. Thanks Mike appreciate it.
Mikey, Have you tried out the Playback Designs SACD Disc Player? There are those of us that have hundreds of CD's, SACD's and other hi-res CD format disks, such as K2HD, XRCD, other 20 - 24 bit formats. You can really hear the difference in my opinion. Like the time consuming nature of LP's, I can't imagine converting all of my CD's to digital/hi-res files. It's like putting the LP on the platter, but we put the shiny disk into the player! Thanks.
I have not yet, as its $20K and I have maybe 6 SACD's ... Im thinking of getting one anyways as it can have a streamer put inside... Stay tuned, but you are correct, Legend has it the best playback from this unit is from the SACD Transport.
Really, what's the point of arguing what's a better format. You're not going to change people's minds. Some people think books are antiquated, some people love 78's and go as far as using well thought out turntables for dubbing to a Studer Revox, Nagra IV S with appropriate phono preamp(personally, I've known people that do this). Who am I or anyone else to tell them otherwise? An argument against your thesis is that many feel that digital streaming is cold, soulless endeavor, more importantly, it commoditizes the artists, turning their sweat equity into something you purchase by the pound. Holding up some wonderfully pressed lp with cover art, and writing that you can see and touch gives you a connection to the artist that made it. People do like that. Look, I get that recent digital recording technology is better than analog recording. I won't argue that point, I'm certified, dipping my toes into the deep end of audio, and probably spend more than I should, have since the seventies, but I enjoy most things audio; as a matter of fact, years ago a friend of mine invited me to his families place on a lake in a sort of wilderness area and we went up there one winter for a week. They were an eclectic family, no tv up there but it was filled with books, lots of first editions, and an old tube radio with FM(not all these radios have modern FM, tuning bands). But they also had a Victrola sitting on a table, the classic looking (brass?) horn, and a wall of 78 shellacs. Started playing one after another, scratchy sounding, I don't think more than 25dB dynamic range, but wow after a while, the noise sort of disappears, and realize these shellacs, are direct to discs. Some are as direct to disc as it gets as there are no electronics but are purely mechanical in the way they were recorded. Once you get past the surface noise it was surprising how much real music was on them, a sort of dirty window, view of the stage. It surprised me how much I liked it. Sometimes people are just happy where they're at. SeeYa!
I totally agree, although there are exceptions. Like all the pre-digital albums from the 70’s-80’s that were well recorded like the MFSL, various other German, French, US and other Direct-to’s and such. Also, more recently the higher quality DSD that we go out to both digital (PCM) and master to tape and vinyl- those are a level above the typical PCM digital stuff. But that is a small percentage of the market. Otherwise, putting up with the pops, clicks, cleaning and such is not for the sonic quality. Like SET tube class A, it may be different and even more “pleasing” to some, but as far as fidelity to the original, it is lower than the digital, or solid state alternative.
that´s the problem with digital if lots of instruments played ,high volume equals to distortion, better let the original volume level ,not try to increase it, it´s the same when recording a cassette in a good deck
Well-pressed and well-maintained LPS on a decent system are pop and click-free less than 1% of the time to my ears, on my system, so I often wonder how many people emphasizing this about vinyl have a vinyl collection predominantly of this kind. My collection is predominantly original issues from the 70s and 80s, plus better audiophile pressings AP, Speakers Corner, certain later MOFIs, ORG, and so on. So sometimes the exceptions are substantial. To my ears, except with more 'demanding' large scale classical orchestral pieces, overall vinyl sounds more like live music to me than digital does. Good vinyl is usually more pleasing to my ears than good digital (especially redbook format) because it surpasses digital in more of the ways that I value, while digital is superior-sounding to me in the less important acoustic parameters.
"Monkey in a cage", "You are being hand shoveled a shit sandwich". LMAO Mike! I'm gonna lead with that every time anyone talks about vinyl for any reason. On a more serious note: I don't doubt there's someone out there who truly think vinyl is a superior format, but most times people who are into it are pretty quick themselves to admit that it's a deeply flawed system and it's about the feel/experience rather than ultimate sound. For fun just like you say.
Agree. See my post above. For me vinyl is nostalgia. It’s how I listened to music when I was a kid. It tracks my life. I remember where and when I bought certain records. Listening to vinyl is a ritual. Taking the album off the shelf, cleaning it. Putting the stylus down etc. It isn’t about SQ.
So glad I found you. I'm in the market for a system, and the possibilities out there are mind-blowing, as well as confusing. I love your "no bullshit" presentation. One question: What is the name of that killer track you were dancing too?
LOL, its not clear as a freaking bell Im selling Digital playback systems ? not obvious enough that I want people to buy my stuff instead of the next guys ?... .. HEL-LO !!
Depending on who you ask and what you're willing to pay, yes. But I'm told record labels don't particularly like giving out copyrights and master tapes.
@@StanThePigeon Opinion on audio sound is subjective based on taste, hearing and personal preference. It is not an objective finding based on scientific research and laboratory experiments
Yes and no.I agree streaming is much better value.I do not agree about not needing a good active preamp and phono preamp [ideally combined].And that applies to both digital and analog reproduction.A good active preamp simply makes everything sound more realistic and involving.And a good phono preamp is critical to getting the best sound out vinyl.When you get the preamp/phono preamp right the best of your records will sound better than the best of your digital.Which is not to say that some recordings in digital will not sound better than the vinyl versions .Unfortunately it is impossible to know which records will sound better until you try them.
There are exceptions to the Preamp thing. If you are vinyl you are stuck with needing 2 other pieces, phono pre and preamp. With a high level DAC and no vinyl, you need neither, plus you can subtract TT, arm, and cart, plus all motors, power supplies, etc.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have high level digital including Accuphase and Krell DACs .The Accuphase has a volume control and multiple inputs .My digital always sounds much better via my preamps[ Supratek].
@@thomothomo1078 Krell is only really known for thier power amps. Never DACs. Accuphase..probably better than the Krell. Playback Designs sounds best without a preamp. Every time. No exceptions.
You are speaking the truth, and I agree with your argument, but I don't buy vinyl for "better audio quality", I buy for the pleasure of holding the physical form in my hand, I don't have an expensive system, far from it, but I like the sound, I like the hunt for a reasonable condition copy or a record for a low price. I enjoy collecting, it's more than just listening to the music, to me it's the whole package I get with vinyl collecting. Great video 👍
No need to get upset, just everyone enjoy their format of music. I agree with 4998, I to hope more people move away from vinyl so i can build up my vinyl collection.
I sort of agree with you as I "tried" to get back into the record game again (linn+Van den Hul+chord) and STILL couldn't get the sound I wanted! I bought many turntables and cartridge combos (too much maintenance etc.) and I couldn't deal with the surface noise either. Now I have gone back to SACDs and Qobuz via my Auralic streamer (MUCH BETTER!!!!). Also streaming (qobuz) has come a LONG WAY and now sound quite terrific.
i have several technics and pioneers from the 70´s also a thorens from 1970 ,what maintenance ? belts and needles ,normally today the problem is not the cartridge but the bad sound of modern amplifiers ,mainly the phono input
Agree that a stick w/ a pointy rock on the end being dragged through a small soft plastic groove shouldn't sound close to as good as a well put together tape or digital front end. If you actually listen to a well set up turntable rig, it's obvious that vinyl can be a lot better than our humble narrator would have you believe. A Feickert Blackbird/ Kuzma 4 point/Lyra Atlas front end will easily out perform the $1500 Rega referred to here, and (depending on the recording being used) it can equal or better a similarly priced digital front end. There are hundreds if not thousands of great recordings that you can only get on vinyl and even more recordings that were poorly transferred into a digital format. As a result, the LP will often sound better than the CD or the digital file. I wish this were not true, vinyl is a pain in the ass and no one will be happier than me when there there is no sonically based justification to keep a turntable in the system. If you don't have a good turntable set up, don't get one, ignore all the shit i just wrote and by all means hold on to the confirmation bias that this video is helping to reinforce
Fully agreed and tbh you don’t need that expensive gig you mentioned. My Hifi rig turntable plus preamp and amp I’ve collected over the years costs around $5k and there have been many times where an album on vinyl sounded much better than it’s digital counterpart. This is mostly true of pre 1980 recorded stuff and also a lot of the bluenote jazz titles or early 70s rock music pressings. I will say though that for current music it’s a total waste to buy on vinyl. Bottom line is I enjoy both formats and chose How I want to listen depending on the album and genre I’m listening to. In all this there is one other format that Reigns supreme because it is by far the closest to original and that is R2R but sadly I can only afford to buy maybe one tape a year two at most.
The hidden agenda of OCD! If you sold turntables and cartridges and arms or even records, vinyl would be the greatest thing. Vinyl sounds better - period.
@@matthewbarrow3727 if you don’t own a turntable and can’t compare, you don’t know Jack. OCD is a walking infomercial for Playback Designs. If he sold a turntable line, it would be the greatest thing. Total phony.
@@stevejohnson9058 I was agreeing with you, and being sarcastic. I own an Akurate level Linn Sondek LP12. Prince on vinyl sounds great. It sounds rubbish on Qobuz. The back end of my system is a Legacy Audio Valor speaker system, where I use a tube integrated amp to deal with the tweeter and upper midrange. I also have a Lumen U1 streamer. This is up around the $90,000 region.
@@matthewbarrow3727 I know you were. Nice system. Would love to hear your LP12. Oh, and the LP12 is how old? 50 years? And still a great table. Try that with digital!
@@stevejohnson9058 Mine is 35 years old. However, I upgraded the parts last year after the motor died. Also replaced the cartridge as that had definitely worn out.
You've failed to mention a very important point. Not all digital sources available through streaming services are the best available sources. In order to get the best available source you need the master tape. NO WAY all digital available through streaming comes from master tape! That's why some vinyl pressings kill digital through streaming! In fact, most of the time you have no idea what the original source is from digital recording via streaming. I use Qobuz and Audirvana. Some selections in Audirvarna have a HQ by the title but that's it. I have some vinyl pressings that KILL what I've heard through streaming. So, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Some digital sounds great. I've heard it for myself but I have some vinyl that blows away what I've heard streaming digital! Oh and by the way, I own the music. When the internet takes a shit or a streaming service goes belly up I can still play my music! Dinosaur you say??? I'm not the one with grey hair, bucko!
Overstated. Forget streaming. Go CD that is well recorded with DAC or Hi Rez. Esoteric will blow vinyl down the hole, even those that cost 100k. Nostalgia.
What about av receivers? They seem to have almost everything required to play digital sources. I'd rather not deal with separates. Am I missing something here?
A couple of years ago I sold my £8k+ turntable and £2k phono preamplifier. Also sold off quite a few records and donated the rest to charity, a mostly classical music collection accumulated over a period of 40 years, keeping a small number of records that hold sentimental value and memories. I now listen entirely to digital, mostly CDs bought over a similar period and don't miss the expense, stress and time getting the best from vinyl. If you don't mind that, then vinyl can provide incredible sound quality besides the satisfaction and pleasure that collectors and hobbyists of all kinds derive, more so than digital can give.
It doesn't sound like digital OR analog. That's not how sound works. You don't hear bits. It sounds like shit is what it sounds like. That's why we're into home audio so we can actually hear the music. But the ways in which it sounds shit are completely different to the ways in which vinyl sounds shit. Vinyl is not superior and it sure as FUCK isn't authentic. It's about as far from it as you can get.
You’re just being very ignorant. Antiquated or archaic no it’s not. You don’t have to spend $125 for a mobile fidelity pressing you can find a nice clean original copies that sound really good. I think Compact Disc Can sound very good as well with a good hi-fi system and higher quality CD player. I wonder what Michael fremmer would think of your video. Do you actually listen to Records at all? They definitely have a more three dimensional Fuller more real sound. You’re just shouting on your video and sounding annoying. I think you need to get out and take a nice lady out to dinner and have some fun with her
The three dimensional aspect is an illusion created by the crosstalk inherent in reproducing two channels with one single stylus. You can hear this effect in the lead in and lead out grooves as a presence between the two speakers - something happens in one channel there is a corresponding effect in the other - it is merely distortion.
great video. Love the channel. I'm 67 years old and back in the day we had nothing but vinyl. No Internet, no MP3, no compact discs. Streaming was called the radio. My record collection is modest. I have about 1300 albums. My CD collection is a little over 2000. I enjoy both and do not debate whether one is better than the other. Two different formats. I loved the process of buying records as a teenager and playing it while I read the liner notes. Still love the whole vinyl playback process because that's what I grew up with. But I love my CDs as well. Stereo systems can be a rabbit hole. I had owned a real nice cassette deck and a reel to reel machine but no longer have either. Now it's just records and CDs. I don't stream and at my age I don't need to. Is streaming better? Don't know, don't care. I'll continue to enjoy what I have until I expire. Thanks for the video 🙂
I think there's something qualitatively valuable about owning the music you enjoy beyond nostalgia or having a hobby or fetishization of physical objects. Tidal, Apple, Spotify, Amazon etc. don't really care about music. Music is a means for them to sell you technology and services. They're also doing a terrible job of becoming profitable. When I buy a record I know that I'll have it until I sell it or my house burns down. I can't say the same for any of my favorited albums in Qobuz or Tidal because at any point the company could go belly-up or they could swap the master on me.
I hear ya, but there is a middle ground owning those digital files. I refuse to be beholden to a streaming service, or the internet to get my 100 percent CD rip/purchased file, digital library.
@@particularlynothing Same here. I use Qobuz for most of my listening. When I find an album I *really* like and don't want to risk being pulled by Qobuz, I'll just buy the download, or buy a used CD and rip it. It's for me to keep till I die. I have a robust backup strategy to make sure I don't lose them.
Are you trying to push a hype on Master TAPES? where can you get a copy of that? How many records you can buy to keep it analog? Streaming is not even closed on sound quality reproduction and I'm sorry if I can't spend 25k on the 1 equipment you recommend.
In all of this craziness. I listen to music for fun. I enjoy everything be it a Stream, CD, or Record. I admit, I do enjoy my rig the most just playing my old LPs on my TT. I love what you are trying to accomplish and always glean some useful insights to this hobby. Alas, I am at a different place. I used to, but stopped working towards obtaining purist sound possible a long time ago. I no longer desire becoming a slave to Toys that are often times way too expensive, comprise too many hassles, and create Too Much Stress. I found there is no reward in obsessing over the B.S. that a lot of us folks (Me included) think make up the very best playback system possible. This for me is a merely a hobby, that reaches its pinnacle, when you are able to crack open a cold one, and unwind to your favorite recording. For the likes of me, fixating on the something as inane as what source material gives you the very best music reproduction, sucks way too much joy out of it.
Abso freaking lutely.. When your rig connects you to the music whereby you cant daydream while its playing , then STOP. Time to check audio system off the list.
you know people endlessly scrolling tiktok reels or FB or insta? Streaming is basically that but for your ears - the perfect medium for people with blipvert attention spans who don't listen to albums from start to finish the way they were intended
youre forgetting about the mastering. all thos 60 70s tapes were made with vinyl in mind and were mastered from fresh tapes. a lot of the digital/DSD you get could be mastered in a worse way or made from more worn tapes. so the vinyl could still sound better than digital. and since vinyl was around for the 50s/60/70s/80s all those are mostly going to sound better on vinyl. yes tape is the best format however 1:1 copies of your favourite 60s 70s albums were never released on high quality tape. so your selection is extremely limited. vinyl is the best overall medium if your favourite music is from the 50s/60s/70s/80s...
Tape is my best format for the old stuff and my DSD rips are indistinguishable, and streaming on my rig is 95% the quality of my DSD rips so vinyl is a non starter.. Ill go against vinyl with streaming anyday in my rig... Vinyl is not that great and definitely not the end all be all... Its fun ....
I’m hoping more people move away from that inferior ‘vinyl’ sound, so my records get easier and cheaper to buy!
My great great grandkids... if I have any... will be able to listen to my vinyl collection one day. What are they going to do with my streaming deck from 2024?
Play files genius
@@OCDHIFiGuy There's no internet on Mars
When was the last time you owned a turntable?
If so, what was it and it's associated equipment (tonearm, cartridge and phono stage).
Thanks in advance.
You blew it and said turntable. Maybe it was the all in one....Rega? Is that the name? I don't know. Don't pay attention to that stuff. Whatever it was it's great for playing $3 records.
@@particularlynothing You want a $20K turntable ? $300 records ?? NO PROBLEM. Cut me the check..
I would never own a TT that was a "serious" thing... Not my cup of tea... They sound phenomenal... Just not worth the money or aggravation/ lost time..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I feel you brother! Especially if you did not grow up with them then there’s no attachment.
You seem like you’re a lot younger than my age group (mid-50’s) so if you’re in your late 30’s or early 40’s like our good friend Jay, then yeah, I totally get you. When you were coming of age musically speaking LPs were already on their way out. You grew up on CDs so no wonder you have no emotional attachment to vinyl format no matter how good you’ve heard it sound.
But at least you know it has sonic potential at some level. Thanks for that. You’re not a loss cause after all 😜
At first I was starting to bristle when you were calling vinyl a scam. But then when you explained yourself I found that actually you agree with me on the subject. I sold Hi-Fi in the mid-70s to early '80s. And I abandoned vinyl for about 10 years and pulled my old audiophile turntable out around the turn of the century and now I have four turntables and a few thousand records and it's a truly fun hobby. However, there's no way I'm going to try to tell anybody vinyl sounds better than any other format. For starters the noise floor is even close.
By the way, a person can start off with a darn good turntable for under $500 and even less if they go used. I think the main thing you're trying to dress here is the audiophiles that seem to care about the equipment more than the music I used to be an audiophile, now I'm a music lover. I've even been in a dozen or so live bands now. But I look at the whole thing this way:
Audio files use the music to listen to the equipment. Music lovers use the equipment to listen to the music.
And just one of the thing. I think one of the reasons finalists popular and CDs may be making a comeback is that people want to actually own the music and not be at the mercy of a streaming source. There's also just so much more to playing records than just listening to the music it's an Interactive experience.
Yes, we are on the same page... By the way "streaming" does not require the internet as you suggest. I stream my personal collection from my computer in my office to the computer at my system. I LOVE that saying you just said about music Lovers and Audiophiles... thats GREAT ! Ill remember that forever and tell others ! Its totally correct.. and a great way to say it..
@@OCDHIFiGuy by using GOD holly power and prayers or you have a cable from your ofice till your home, so no internet or phone cable as in the mid 80´s just puff and here it is,streaming without using internet or anything you can call it like a private network but to do that you´ll need internet conection so how do you do it, firewire cable with kms appart with a local license for installing a cable through out where ever you work and live, that´s funny and i thought i had a 5 year degree on informatic systems either than only 3 years of study in electronic comunications since the early 70´s , in 72 i had a real good job ,i could buy my two favorite cars, marry and have my first son, but what do i know about high-fidelity i´m in my 5th marriage, only me to blame ,i´m a real OCD guy, the reason why heroin was so good to me
Stop embarrassing yourself and repeating the nonsense about audiophiles using music to listen to their gear.True Audiophiles love gear as much as music.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt you must have me confused with someone else. I sold hi-fi in the 70s and early 80s and I was an audiophile at one time. I've rubbed shoulders with a lot of audiophiles and a lot of reformed audiophiles.
i.e. I stand by my statement and consider your ad hominem attack to be a bit ironic. 😎
i can't stream because i live in a rural area and have the bandwidth. i also like a tangible medium that my girlfriend can ruin.
This is like politics. The 1% of each extreme side bitching at each other. Nobody in the middle cares. We have what we have and can afford. Records. CDs.Streaming, Hi res. etc.
Nailed it ... Im not bitching at anyone tho... and this is the high end talking not mainstream audio..
@@OCDHIFiGuyYou're hilarious!. I didn't give up my vinyl for CDs, I didn't give up CDs for streaming. I like owning my music. I will say digital sounds better than vinyl most of the time but not always.
@jaybird123xx It always does. Digital is just superior.
Even with old music, when it is ripped to digital. It's done on equipment that costs a fortune and restored to it's original glory and correcting the many flaws of the tape or vinyl recording. In the end getting a better end result than any anolog copy.
The fact this is even a debate is ridiculous.
Also, there is significant loss of sound quality going from master tape or digital to vinyl. Vinyl will never sound as good as the master tape or even the DAT or digital recording.
Most people don't understand this...
Apparently I've been deluding, and yet enjoying myself ,for the past 60 years. Interesting hyperbole.
Yeah mate, keep at it. Nobody's telling you to stop. It's not about that.
I think it's interesting how much people equate accuracy with enjoyability. Personally I've been paying close attention to sound quality enough that I find it hard to listen past a system's flaws. But accuracy isn't really what makes something sound good to me. As long as distortion and noise are low enough and the frequency balance is within a reasonable proximity of normal I am able to tune out the system and refocus on the music. So while I personally agree with Mikey on digital being more accurate than vinyl, that doesn't equate to me thinking it sounds better. I listen to vinyl all the time, largely because I like the vinyl mixes better than a lot of the digital versions of the same music. My statement has always been, "Vinyl and cassette and even FM radio have long been more than good enough to let most people listen past the equipment and into the music." I have to admit however that the better a system is, the faster I go from analyzing to enjoying.
A problem with streaming is that a lot of older recordings get re-mixed and re-mastered, mostly to fit the majority of listeners and the way they consume music. That is trough mobile phones and cheap ear buds. The re-mixed and re-mastered are made to work well in every day life, in the gym, on the subway, running or biking, mostly in an urban location. Compression is the typical way of doing it.
I so which that the streaming services could offer us more then one version and have a HiFi version available.
I have a very good $6k DAC...my turntable rig sounds better. There's obviously something wrong with me...
Yeah, you prefer the sound of harmonic distortion.
@@WDeranged You prefer children.
yes me too
I agree. I have a great DAC, but my turntable/cartridge combination produces a sound that’s better to me. It doesn’t have to be for everyone and I know there are great digital systems.
@@a3marketing991Play back what recorded it.
also there are still some titles not available in other formats.
Yes... true..
Why do one group have to set upon the other? Why can't people just appreciate that everyone has their own taste and ears and that's all that matters surely? I listen to both vinyl & digital and I'm getting sick of people berating the others just because they don't agree with what the others do. Live in peace guys and enjoy whatever you have. I invested a decent amount on a TT a couple of years ago and play it through Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers and it best sound I've ever had. So an analogue front end going through digital DSP speakers! Go figure but to my ears its sounds incredible. The best thing you can do for your sound it to either treat or correct for your room - and it took me 30 years to believe that!
the problem here is not related with personal taste ,i don´t know if you have played electric guitar or drums or one analog instrument , but what we listen on cd isn´t the sound of a guitar being played is just a sample of what was heard lot´s of bands played guitars and if one is used to listen to an Lp and than buy it´s cd version thinking it would be an improvement as it was advertised but ends up with a badly recorded version of what one used to listen . i had a equalizer at home but i never had used it also have a litle home studio where i went to get some old monitors this all to make cds sound close to the sound one listened for a lot of years but i own thousands of cds but some i never played them others they sound very good depending on the style of music, i never stoped listening to records but in 1993 i started to buy cds because i had enough money to buy a new system and bought a good cd player ,when buying cds that i had in vinil and hear them i notice something was wrong ,mainly guitars were mufled, if one doesn´t know the sound of the band ,only thinks that they were really strange or why do older people say this band was incredible, dynamic in sound is lost. but has i refered earlier there are cds with great sound
lepet42, my job is to save people time and money. If someone understands the liability, cost and time involved and still wants to go Vinyl, then all the power to them.
Right on the money lepet42 I did the same and really enjoy critical listening a good pressing vs pressings of lesser quality. I stream as well and enjoy the simplicity of that medium and its inherent strengths. So I enjoy one medium as much as the other, they both have their pros and cons.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I enjoy learning a lot from almost all your videos, & believe almost everything you say. Thanks! You should know, you have master tapes. Wonder if they sound as good as reel to reel tapes, or if reel to reel sound as good as cassettes. Just my opinion of what I hear, not exactly facts. Reel to reel tapes dont sound as good as vinyl. Some say vinyl touches the needle, while cd laser touch nothing, is why cd dont sound as good. Hiss is inherent in analog & tubes. Cassettes have hiss like vinyl does. Remove the hiss on cassette with dolby noise reduction ruins the sound, seems like cd with no hiss ruins the sound. The original Santana Abraxas on a good turntable, I dont think any cd of that has ever come close. Two more examples are: Yes-Closer to the Edge-You & I. Alan Parsons- I robot. After 1971 most but not all, cds & vinyl sound the same, which is terrible. I have 300 perfect sounding records, I can only stand half of them on cd. But I have about 20 cds that I can rave on, on sound quality. I like old tube recoded albums. I do listen to cds more. Some say that digital cd is better, but they dont know that their cd says AAD.
Because humans are tribal.
I love my records I have kept nearly every record from my childhood. I would never argue it sounds better just different. I sometimes swap out the few speakers I own just to change up the sound to get a different perspective. The best budget table would be the Nottingham Analogue Horizon.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I've got about 1000 albums. A lot of them are from my younger days, I was fortunate enough to save every album I ever bought and took care of them, and I'm 70 years old. I've got an empire turntable that I've owned for over 50 years and a 500 dollar turnable my daughter bought for me a few years ago. I find myself streaming most of my music now. I do spin records but not half as much as I did 5,10,15 years ago. I'll be damned if I would spend 3 grand on a turntable, 2 grand on an arm and then even more on a cartridge. I still by an occasional record, mostly used. Not the 100 dollar LPs. My bluesound/denafrips combo sounds just great through my system.
Wonder what was added to Abraxis such the it sounds significantly better than the SACD?
That's the real question to answer NOW. Who's gonna be first???
First the specification of digital is better than the turntable. Second most solid-state amplifier have better specifications than a tube amplifiers. I can go on forever but here are a lot of people like vinyl and tube amplifier. On my system the turntable sounds equal or better than digital version. The problem I have with digital: First I don’t listen to a whole song or album. I spend more time skipping through different songs. Second, I don’t relax when listening to digital. When I listen to my turntable, I go into a trance listening to the music. Everyone likes good distortion. What do people like better c-cord on a acoustic guitar or a c-cord on a Les Paul/Fender going through a Marshall/Fender amplifier. Most people will pick the electrical guitar because the distortion and energy. If you go by specification everyone would buy the cheep Chinese equipment that have better specifications than most HIFI equipment.
@craigkrauter9611 - We listen to music. Not specs. With the distortion found in some gear, the sound is more musical and engaging. Thus the trance you speak of. Some even fall asleep listening to certain gear. That means they’re engaged and relaxed by the “distortion” - regardless, seems the goal of hifi gear should be to engage us and possibly relax us
Everybody is entitled to enjoy music their own way - there's no universal right way or wrong way. However, here's a counterpoint to the electric guitar argument. The distortion is an *intentional* artistic effect. I really like hearing that, but at the same time, I want the singer's voice and other instruments to be as true to the original as possible. The contrast between the distorted and clean sounds coming together in the performance is what makes it special to me. The medium or electronics that add coloration, even if pleasing, will do so to all of the sound, which is not what I like.
The storage-time of a vinyl record is MASSIVELY longer than tape, and MASSIVELY MASSIVELY longer than digital. (If you store ’em correctly)
Why are the record labels archival format Digital then ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy Well, the only thing I’m saying is that the information on a vinyl record is what’s going to last the longest (if you have music in your home, and you want it to last)…
@01blaval I get your point, which could be argued. Vinyl degrades. Digital does not. Eventually, styluses will no longer be made or will be prohibitively expensive, so playback of said Vinyl would be in question. I believe a properly stored hard drive would last as long or longer. Interesting thought however. Both of them will last 100 years or someone's lifetime. There's no real reason to not copy or archive something anyways, and you can't print a new Vinyl record off an old one, but copying digital tales a few minutes.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I get your point too (your point is the general one in the world😉) And of course information stored on vinyl is not able to be copied. But if you get a scratch on a vinyl record you can still play it (try that with a digital track😉) you’ll need copies and copies… and also several hard drives for security (I don’t have much trust in hard drives or servers, especially in the long run) and there will also be problems transfering old digital files to new equipment (it already is).
Well, let’s have a follow up on this in 30-40 years from now, and let’s see if my Spotify playlists are in better condition than my vinyl collection…👍🏼😉
Hi Mikey, I agree that it makes all the sense to keep today's digitally recorded media in digital format. More convenient, cheaper, easier to put together a good / very good sounding rig for it. However, turntables still have a big role - music recorded pre-digital era were not recorded in digital, and those so desirable one take sessions are much more frequent than todays edit-ad-nauseam fast-food music industry era. Sure, master tape is the master tape, but there's only one master and thousands of audiophiles. We had master tape listening sessions with my buddies vs high level vinyl rig, and the vinyl can sound very, very close to the point of giving complete satisfaction to all listeners. That's provided you have an early pressing - which is still much easier and cheaper to find than a master tape.
Remastering of analog tape recordings is done digitally. "The Beatles" remixes are not made by yet again running deteriorating tape. The tapes have been digitized, and the remixes are done with a copy of those.
And the idea that one can hear the difference between analog vinyl and digital vinyl is an illusion.
But keep playing the vinyl, under the illusion that the stylus-in-groove DISTORTION is instead warmth. And want it "warmer"? -- then add tube amplification, which adds additional DISTORTION.
"I like what I like" is not "audiophile". An audiophile is concerned with the nature and quality of the source, and everything between that and the speakers. How much does your modern amplification add of PROCESSING before the sound gets to the speakers?
Those are fundamental. Those are the basics. It is knowing how the recording was made so one doesn't mistake it for something else. And that means one understands the actual definitions of recording technology terminology, instead of turning those to jargon, and making up out of nothing what seems to be "missing".
@@jnagarya519 I just bought a 10800 dollar tube amp and man that baby has made my music really nice and warm , just the way I like it
@@Lee-rh1wj In honest terms, you like to claim "purity" while actually preferring the music to be distorted.
Gathering of autistic kids!
"music recorded pre-digital era were not recorded in digital, and those so desirable one take sessions are much more frequent than todays edit-ad-nauseam fast-food music industry era."
Hogwash. "The Beatles," among many, edited together various portions of various takes to make a final take.
And a minority of recordings were "one take".
And TAPE HISS is the RECORDING -- "Yay, analog!" -- of the tape running across the recording head.
And THAT is DISTORTION.
But I guess for the thick-headed there is no purer recording of music than for the music to be beclouded and obscured by DISTORTION.
And another FACT: DIGITAL recordings on PLAYBACK are transformed into ANALOG -- but WITHOUT the DISTORTION.
I have a love/hate relationship with vinyl, I’m not one to fetish with the physical medium, they take so much real estate in my 1000 square foot condo and what about the cartridge, each time I play a record it’s costing me 1$ of cartridge life amortization, that’s if I don’t slip and ruin it all together. Speaking of cartridge, is it well aligned? Can the VTA, VTF, Azimuth be better? What about tracking force? Ouf! Never ending. And the price of damn records, crazy! Believe me, I’ve tried to rid myself of vinyl, tried different CD players/DACS, eventually gave up, I’m now resigned to use my DAC for music discovery only, I stream through tidal and once I like something I start searching for the vinyl. What can I say I’m a vinyl junky. And for those of you who have commented that vinyl can’t do bass, grow up and become an adult, or ask one to help you with your setup, because you are definitely doing something wrong. I’m not trying to defend vinyl and please don’t stop bringing medium down, the more people stick to their clans and start bitching wars the more interesting the internet. Great entertainment.
One thing overlooked by vinyl enthusiasts is inner groove distortion. The linear speed of an LP slows toward the center of the disc which requires a boost in the top end to compensate for linear speed loss
Do i sell my recently inherited thorens 166mk 2 and swop it out for a dac? (Playing audio from iphone to bluetooth to amp)
Depends how many records you have...
@@OCDHIFiGuy none😂 im not into dad’s jim reeves. I also have an eye on a used jeff rowland concentra 1 integrated amp. As my 1 in a lifetime buy
Absolutely nailed on. The bass via RIAA /preamp is like powdered egg being added back in later to thicken things up. Vinyl is the audio eqivilent of white noise CD for helping babies go to sleep - but for adults. Simple physics. I work in audio - radio. Pink noise is being added to the original audio through the friction playback (degrading) system of vinyl. That's the 'smooth' effect and affect that is cited before they cash. As Mikey says - vinyl is a lossy format....but money has sniffed it out, corporates and flippers have come to feast of FOMO of 'authencity anxiety'
How do I get tapes of records I would like to have in good quality?
I love to listen to trivial music(e.g. Madonna) but there's records, for example 2008's "hard candy", where the CD version has been destroyed by the loudness war. So I was forced to purchase the vinyl(cost a few hundred) and albeit better it's still "miles away" from being of optimum quality.
Same thing with SIA's records... I can only listen to vinyl versions of some of her albums - CD and streaming services only feature the "sonically irradiated" recordings.
Is there a solution to this without knowing somebody in the industry?
What I like best about my vinyl rig is the expense & inconvenience and as the late great John Peel famously said "life has surface noise" however jokes aside what you didn't touch upon is the fact that a record (and im talking non digital pre 80's LP's here) could arguably be closer to the source than the same album released digitally that has had countless remasters and applied compression to squeeze the snot out of the dynamic range. I don't listen to a lot of so called audiophile recordings (in which case id say digital perhaps sounds better) and my musical roots are grounded in classic rock, metal & pop so by and large nothing remotely demo material but man if I played you the original UK press of something like Iron Maidens "Somewhere In Time" and A-B'd it to ANY digital copy available today you'll be blow away by the difference in sound! Also given my ADHD type personality playing a record forces me to sit down and chill and not jump from track to track, album to album so with that in mind i'll stick to my antiquated records and just enjoy them for what they are......Cheers.
Record said vinyl to digital and walla
All the dr and extra flavour should be there. Works best with someone who has a very nice clean copy of the pressing and good required equipment etc.
What you'll miss is the record itself playing music softly in the centre, assuming your gear is setup there - at lower volumes, this could sound like added air or spaciousness of sorts.
@@RennieAsh low volume, loudness on
Peace and 100% agree
Yes I agree I have orchestral works recorded on an Ampex 350-2 at 2 track 15 IPS. It was stolen so I have a Tandberg TD20A SE at 2 track 15 IPS 10-38Khz at 7.5 15-30Khz . Sounds fabulous. This is my deal. Linear tracking table only for direct disc or what I can’t get on tape. Reel to Reel for 3 3/4 Tandberg 74B. For 7.5 and 15 the Big Tandberg. Maybe I compromise for cassette with a Tandberg cassette player. Can this sound system differentiate between microphone types and brands? Can I hear the basic LRS or LRS+ at Best Buy?
I wouldn’t even be in this hobby if records didn’t exist. Zero emotional connection to ones and zeros. That said, your candidness is refreshing.
I personally enjoy collecting and listening to vinyl and I also enjoy my poly-carbonates as well. I'm not discriminating.
Anybody Trier the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 wich is a streamer with a poer*DAC that can driwe the speakers directly?
You don’t have a turntable and you don’t listen to records. How can you compare it? It doesn’t even interest you to try it.
What you are saying is a theory. In reality, some digital sounds better than vinyl and some vinyl sounds better than digital. Depending on source.
Cheers!
What is the bit rate of the master for the vinyl cutting? How does that compare to say a CD?
LOL... Bit rate of the tape, huh ???
LOl.. No, these days they mostly use digital to master for vinyl. What is the sample rate of the digital master of the vinyl. What is it compared to say redbook CD? @@OCDHIFiGuy
Idiotic babble. Vinyl, tape, and digital all sound different and all have their strengths and weaknesses for the music lover/collector/audiophile. Some of my vinyl records sound dramatically better than the digital file; others don’t sound as good. I don’t own any tapes because I find it impractical. i don’t understand why you bobble heads keep going on and on about the same issues. Is the manual transmission obsolete? I don’t care, I prefer it. Does an Apple Watch keep better time and is far more functional than my far more expensive “antiquated” mechanical watch? Yes. I DON’T CARE!
His point was that technically vinyl is far from great sound source. Wheter you prefer it's inperfection like distortion or fact that for great sound you must spend thousands and thousands of money, or the fact it takes a lot of time to clean them, is irrelevent.
There are people like Fremer who think that vinyl is most capable sound source ever, which is false. I used to collect vinyl, I used to love it and spent a lot of time and decent money for turntable, cartridge, preamp and cleaning products. And after several years I understood it is pointless to go further because not only vinyl technically isn't best source, but also mastering mostly has digital steps. And buying old records isn't way out either because it most likely will be in a condition which might be good but already with additional pops, clicks or noise which are impossible to get rid off.
Question: I've been listening to vinyl pretty much all the time on my little system for the past year. I'm considering to go back to digital. I don't critically listen enough, or IE I don't have as much time to change records lately. I'll keep the record player it in my rig, but for me it's more of a 10-20% of my listening experience. I recently got Tidal again and have been listening through my system (with no external dac, just through the macbook...I know I know). I've noticed I'm experiencing the same thing that I did when I was all digital - listening fatigue! It's strange...I just don't want to listen to the music, or I need to put it really low. I don't get this when I'm listening casually on the laptop speakers or any junk stuff. And I've noticed that I don't get that with the records.
I have Wharfedale 80th Denton bookshelves. A vintage Yamaha CA-1010 integrated amp.
In my previous digital rig I had a Rega Dac. Same listening fatigue issue. My question is, am I delusional? Secondly, does this go away when you get a better dac? And how much money does it take to remove the listening fatigue?
Yes, it's a DAC that makes it harsh 90% of the time.
@@OCDHIFiGuy What kind of dac will solve that?
That rega was $700 retail but like 10 years ago
@@OCDHIFiGuy What DAC would you recommend that would solve this, thats under 2K
@@derekviveiros2628 it's not waters I swim in, but my vote goes to Dangerous Music Source. It's a ProAudio optimized DAC that's made in USA and sounds 👌 🔥. You just have to get past no remote control and a ProAudio look ... but it delivers sonically. For real. And it is $1K.
What a great Video. You are the first one to have the combination of balls and great content about this exact subject! I've been talking about this for so long and I have the same exact beliefs. Now the only exception is for the occasional super thin sounding 80s cd pressing that does not sound pleasing at all or does not have great synergy with the current system being used. That is the time where I enjoy listening to the vinyl version of the album. Again Yes its about preference over actua; objective quality and its not because of digital as a format being inferior.
So my acustic sounds head hunter 45 rpm vinyl sound as good as the mqa 96 kHz version on tidal...not really.
This is like telling a classic car guy that modern cars costing a tenth of the price are faster, brake better, handle better & are more reliable. True, but you don't fall in love with a modern car.
You're using the same argument that the measurement guys saying you're a fool for spending more than a $1000 on a dac, pennies for cables, power chords.
People love records, love is not rational. Nobody loves a file.
You have completely missed my point. I LOVE Records... they are totally cool like old cars are. But to enjoy a car ride you DONT need an original Shelby do you ?
For me it doesnt matter if analog or digital,but at least i want a physical medium that makes me independent from a service.
Sure you can copy the CDs and put them on a hard drive.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Sorry,but im not that stupid.
@@Zockopa OK. I'm listening. How does a CD differ from a hard drive ? You know they flake apart eventually, right ? And if you copy them and serve them locally, you don't need a service.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Why should i bother with that at all ? Makes no sense to me. If i want to listen to a CD i use a cd-player and if i want to listen to a record i use a turntable.
As simple as that.
@@Zockopa perfect. You should do what works best for you. I personally don't want walls nor drawers full of physical media storage in my listening room.
Sorry Mikey but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. I’ll keep this short but for most real vinyl lovers it’s about the ritual , tinkering with the gear, tweaking, setting it up etc and I believe if I remember correctly you like to tweak your gear as well?. As far as vinyl sounding better than digital and vice versa I don’t get caught up in that crap , if it sounds good it sounds good no matter the medium. I do both vinyl and digital and I have 2 reel to reels , it’s all fun for me and the satisfaction is enjoying the music on a rig that sounds good to me 👍
What is the make and model of your master reel to reel in the background and where do you buy the master tapes for 300 a pop
You are looking at a Otari MX5050 Mark 3 and to Rik below, I have a lay down washing machine size Studer A80 ..this is so I can make dubs .. thats what copies are called... For 300 bucks youll get a copy of a copy of the master. 3rd gen, sometimes second gen. They are still sick sounding. I actually bought a collection of originals though from a recording company in Los Angeles.. Just google master tapes and you'll find whos selling them.
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks for replying
You’re overlooking the vast library of older but wonderful classical and jazz recordings that were originally recorded to tape and then mastered to vinyl. Many of these are not available in digital format or on a $400 tape. And even when they are available in digital they often have lost something in the conversion process. By ignoring vinyl you’ll miss out on top conductors, top orchestras and best performances, as well as often stunning sound quality. Sure tape playback can be best, but most older titles are not available on tape and the prices when available are crazy high. I listen to digital and tape as well, but I would not want to lose access to these great recordings only available on vinyl!
I think many audiophiles are not that interested in these great recordings so long as they have demo tracks of more modern music in digital formats.
A recent example: my friends and I were comparing the top 7 or so LP recordings of Rimsky-Korsakov’s Scheherazade. We had fun comparing the different interpretations by world-class conductors and orchestras and top recording quality. Try so set up that experience with tape or digital - can’t be done.
PS: You want to rant about madness? How about the lunacy of “demoing” a high-end system over TH-cam. THAT insanity deserves your wrath far more!
The only reason to have a TT is to play rare albums that aren't available elsewhere in other formats
…and there are a LOT of them.
Correct 👍🏽 🙏🏽
Please explain why there are all kinds of DACs and different price points. If they are all just converting a digital signal into an analog one to send to your speakers, why are there $20 DAC's (for my Cell Phone USB C jack to a 1/8" plug for headphones or connection to a stereo), and $20,000 DACs? That is like having 2 calculators that only add, subtract, multiply and Divide say 10 digit numbers. Why would one calculator cost $10,000 to add 0+1+1+0+1=3 and another calculator cost $5 to do the same math and come out with the same answer. Please fill me in, because it just sounds like a money hustle to me.
easy... Digital is a step function. Think of 90 degree angles drawn on paper making a stair. Focus in close in the inside angle of the stair. 20K DACS make a PERFECT 90 degree angle with a perfect rise and a perfect foot tread. Nothing but perfectly straight lines. Cheap dacs are like carpeted stairs with rounded corners on the inside and outside 90 degree turns. In laymans terms "ones and zeros" have an accuracy spec. Shitty DACs have pre ringing and post ringing and jitter.. Killer DACS dont..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Sounds a bit suspect. I have heard very expensive DACs compared to very cheap DACs and with the exception of pretty screens and lots of bells an whistles. They all sounded the same with the same music source. It is probable the same profit grab going on like with simple 25 watt class A amps selling for $20,000 and only requiring about $500 worth of electronics inside their fancy looking boxes to make the audio. Like a Nelson Pass hobbyist amp inside a designer Gucci designed box. You pay for the box. Not the amp. LOL.
@@AudioGuyBrian
you obviously didn’t hear real expensive studio grade DAC ….. ask someone to help you…
@@silviosarunic3234 I am good with sticking to my Vinyl Records and Maxell XLIIS tape recordings I made on my Nakamichi and JVC 3-head decks of all my records. No silly DACs needed except in my phone to convert phone calls into audio it can play on its teeny tiny speaker that is made for all the Digital crap you can throw at it. LOL.
You pack a remarkable amount of misinformation in your videos. Truly a rebel without a clue. Carry on.
Respectfully I ask: have you looked at Rega turntables? No gold, little mass, no bull but excellent engineering. Just a genuine Q and I get where you’re coming from re those huge (monstrous?) plattered high mass TT’s that seem to represent the Rolex watch of the TT world without the Rolex premium brand sell on/pass value (and all the other qualities associated without that brands fine mechanical engineering expertise).
Further: records from the 60’s, 70’ 80’s and even 90’s were recorded analogue so we’re not widely subject to digitisation during the recording process. Many people have such a collection of records and want to keep listening entirely in the analogue domain.
Thanks, oh, by the way I love your videos, and downright truth about the audio industry. In this video, you made me realize how collecting records for 56 years and buying all the CDs to replace the records, and the money spent on a turntable and the cartridges, how much work I put into listening to music with the records, finally realized it's about time to get a nice streamer and a dac. But I still collect my CDs, I think it's time to retire my turntable.
Good luck man, keep on pluggin, if it pisses The Establishment off too bad!
I agree, too bad ! Let me know if I can help you make the transition, I help people just like yourself every month.. Do what you enjoy, but Ill tell you , streaming saves a TON of time..
Why don’t you arrange to spend a day with Michael Fremer
for some comparisons. I think you’ll change your mind.
I am someone who loves my vinyl. I spent a few thousand dollars after researching that vinyl could sound better than cd's (the format I grew up with was vinyl and cassettes.... I'm 57) I initially didn't believe that vinyl could sound as good or better than cd's so I had some money to burn and a good turntable so I invested in a really good cartridge. I soon discovered that I also needed a good pre-amp because it wasn't sounding as good as cd's. I bought a good pre-amp and was brought to tears by how good some of my original and new vinyl sounded..... That said, Some vinyl sounds better than cd's, some cd's sound better than any vinyl will. I believe the mastering and quality of the source material is the deciding factor. I started this statement by saying vinyl could sound better then CD's which it can.... but my sacd player (DSD) can also sound better than cd's and vinyl.
You are absolutely correct. It's not hard to beat a cd but if you get a DSD file from an original master tape, you have nirvana at your finger tips.
CD ??? No. Not at all. CD has high jitter. Streaming from the computer sounds better and it's not hard to hear.
i notice that in the first cd i bought(mainly guitars) , even thought it was the cd player that wasn´t that good but it was considered one of the best in late 80´s
I listen mostly to vinyl but I agree with you! Why I like vinyl is because it has character. I am in my early 30's and my whole life has been digital. I bought my first song "notice how I didn't say album" my first song in 2007 on Itunes 😂 So having an album I love on a physical vinyl print is so special to me, maybe the best way to describe it is it makes me respect the work that goes into an album. Also, I do love how I can play around with the sound by swapping out cartridges and different tubes on my phonostage.
Love it Mikey! Actually the analog purists should be hiring the bands/musicians to come and play live for them.
For the price of a master RtR tape, you could almost do that lol
@@bradleycraig7328 Actually I do listen to live music frequently Bradley, and yes it does sound analogue, not digitised; so what a joke.
You already make active speaker system just a bit spread in a room. You also show that amp with GaN fet beat tube amp. So why we need all this boxes, as all can be direct on speaker drivers with optical links and proper PSU. At the end all studio monitors are active speakers. What is your view?
That is the fun of CDs I can go to the thrift store and get me a bunch of $1 and $2 CDs and go home and enjoy and try out all types of different music. I even find some autographed CDs! I have found autographed CDs by Bruce Hornsby, The Posies, Aurora, Juliana Hatfield, Cat Power, Lucious Jackson you never know what you're going to find. You even find some mint condition CD's If I don't like some of them, I give them back to the thrift store!
Agree
Where do you get master tapes from?
I bought them from a Record Studio...
This guy is an elitist arguing against other elitists.
And you made the wrong turn in Albuquerque ! You have no idea whats going on , but I appreciate your judgement... SEE ya !
Is that a Teac Reel to reel? Don't you know that you can get the same performance from a cassette, or even your phone?
Lol. Studer and Otari. Teac is consumer level. Can't play my original master tapes on the phone tho.. it wrecks them
Well said. I enjoy vinyl music for the same reason that I enjoy riding 60 year old motorcycles and have recently woken up to the fact that I was being duped by the so-called "HiFi" turntables I owned over the years. I had to place the stylus in the tracks I wanted manually, and the darned things didn't even switch off at the end of the record!
I've now bought a forty year old Japanese turntable that is fully automatic, lets me select tracks I want to hear, and switches off when I fall asleep.
"Audiophiles" would laugh at it but I now play more of my old records now than I ever did and I cannot hear any difference from my old Garrard 401 or Linn.
There u go, but I can't relate on the old bikes thing. I prefer safe, expert level motorcycles like my Ducati 1260S Multi..
What turntable is that?
@@jdsofar Technics SL-J33. Linear tracking, quartz locked TT, auto track selection, occupies a space little larger than an LP sleeve. I am amused that people buy something like a Linn and pay more than the cost of my Technics for a quartz locked power supply in the belief that it will sound better whereas the Technics has that as standard.
@@rodfryatt4266 Ah nice thats a really cool turntable. I have a 1200 Mk5 right now but want to get a vintage automatic too sometime. Probably a SL1950 or something similar. Technics is a great brand. I just bought one of their new receivers too the SA-C600 its great for what it is.
There's great digital, there's poor digital. There's great vinyl, there's poor vinyl. let's just be grateful we're in the position to enjoy the best of both worlds as we think fit. And let;s focus on the "enjoyment" aspect
100% agree with you!! Been saying it for years. I have a $900 turntable just to listening to my dad's 60 year old records. I've auditioned a $10,000 turntable and it still just sounds like a poor quality noisey recording. Most people have no clue how bad bass is on vinyl. (RIAA curve!) Your turntable can't product stereo bass below 180hz-200hz it's all mono and the bass is limited in accuracy by an engineer deciding the RIAA curve . All while your system is just guessing on the bass output since the turntable and preamp has to amplify the bass more then the mid and treble because the needle would jump off the recored if played bass at the same dymanic range.
I marvel at all of the turntables built with no isolation. The plinth is coupled directly to the shelf/floor and ultimately the speakers. Just crank up the volume and you will hear the woofers howl due to the feedback loop with the turntable. No wonder the bass is no good. I heard my first Sota Turntable in 1989 and it was a revelation. Isolating the record from the speakers has to be no. 1 priority. The bass will be muddy and smeared due to mechanical feedback from the speakers without isolation. The more expensive turntables have well engineered isolation. If you have a solid plinth then build your own isolation shelf that is good down to 3 Hz or below. If it works for a scanning electron microscope it will work for a turntable.
@@tonywheeler917
The old AR turntable of the 1970s was very well isolated. The price was 78 dollars.
I agree 100%. I have a $10,000 rig and it certainly doesn’t sound any better than turntables that are significantly less. Why did I do it? I just simply like what I brought but honestly it’s no better. There are test reviews, in which $10,000 cartridges were played on $1000 turntables. A and B test have been done on $1000 turntables compared to a $100,000 Air Force One. Listeners couldn’t tell the difference.
Hi can you recommend a Reel to Reel machine??? Thx
What's the budget ?
I guess you don't sell turntables. Your statements about turtables just don;'t fit wiith the rest of your work. I have been at this for 40 years. Gave upi on records when the production dried up. I had the priciest digital gear. (DCS/Wadia/Audio Aero/Esoteric SACD etc.) and amps and speakers you have recomended. I woke up when a kid played a familiar tune on a 500.00 vinyl rig. Now i am finally off the merry go round and will never go back to digital.....any digital. And don't try to tell me i bought the wrong digital gear. Love your work....stick to facts and thanks
❤
He probably doesn't sell turntables, but it's not as if he failed the turntable sales exam and has a sour grapes attitude about them because he can't. He's an independent dealer. He can sell whatever he chooses and it's fairly obvious that turntables just don't do it for him. Maybe he can't make as much money selling them? That doesn't seem likely. I think Mikey is passionate about what's important to him and I think that largely drives what he decides to sell.
That being said, I personally love vinyl. I like the sound. I don't think it's as accurate as even redbook CD, but I don't care. Perfect accuracy has not been my goal since I was about 18 when I started attending live concerts regularly. I love turntables because they're fun and I think that reasonably decent ones sound more than good enough to really let me engage with the music.
Whether you agree with Mikey or not, there's no point in insinuating that he has a bias based on what he has to sell. He doesn't work for anyone else. He chooses to sell whatever he wants. If he says he doesn't like vinyl and doesn't sell it, that's because he doesn't like vinyl, not because he somehow can't and needs to justify it to himself and us.
So for a poor boy like me what's the best dac streamer setup? I've got a schiit sys passive preamp a nakamichi pa5 mkii power amp. I do have vyinl records got em free in the 90s. I built a linn for 500$ Cambridge audio phono preamp. I use it and my chord mojo with my smartphone with tidal. I think it sounds great I do like the ritual of vyinl I also like to have any music any time using just a phone and a headphone dac that sounds better than 5k dacs I've heard. Just my 2 cents would like an affordable dac streamer with volume. Till then I'll use my hot mess. Running diy speakers with carbon fiber paper woofers and dipol ribbon tweeters...😊
I'm probably not the best guy to ask.. Sorry !!! I'm passionate about the higher end stuff... thx for your feedback however...
I agree with a lot of what you said and that in most cases digital beats vinyl. However, I have a VERY expensive vinyl system, but I have it because I want it and I can afford it. I also think that there are some vinyl pressings that do beat digital. They are mostly 45 rpm records. I also have a top tier digital system and listen to digital at least as much if not more than vinyl. The part of your rant that I don't get is about tape. Reel to reel tape is every bit if not more hassle than vinyl. Plus there are very few tapes available. You may have some secret source, that is not available to the masses, but I have seen very little selection for sale and it all costs $300 to $400. It is mostly classical and a little jazz. If there were the same number of titles available on tape as on vinyl, and the cost were under $100, I would likely ditch the vinyl rig and get a tape machine. But for now, the best, least expensive and most available source of analog music is vinyl.
Reel-to-reel decks used to be cheap back in the 1990's when NOBODY including radio stations and recording studios wanted them. Everyone wanted nothing but a digital machine. CD'S, DAT tape decks and Digital Compact Cassette were all pushed by electronic companies to the max. Laserdisc discs were better because of digital audio, Dolby Digital and DTS. Even a fine tuned Swiss watch sucked if it wasn't digital.
That's when Records almost died, and Cassette tapes were on their last legs, Reel-to-reel decks were also hauled out to the curb as nobody wanted to repair them.
Unless some clown drools for old school Quadraphonic 8-track tapes, they will never return, and the real reason why they won't return is nobody took care of them in the first place back when they were popular.
I do have a question for Vinyl lovers, though. Some of the best sounding analog records ever made were the Reader's Digest box sets from the 1960s . Yet, nobody wants them and you can often find still sealed 10-disc box sets at thrift stores for less than 5 bucks. So why pay $150 for a re-release?
@@AlessandroFilippiUX it’s not placebo, it’s skewed perception. There is no absolute truth here. It’s like arguing about what wines taste best. You can never blind test vinyl vs digital. If I put on Karajan Beethovens 3 symphony from the 60-ties on vinyl or digital remastered it’s so obvious which one is which.
@@AlessandroFilippiUX Nothing about this hobby makes financial sense. It is all emotional. It is about finding music that moves you and then buying the equipment that makes you happy to reproduce it. The sound is not the only consideration for the equipment. Looks, feel, and just the emotional satisfaction in using it are all factors in an equipment purchase. I am fortunate to have the wherewithal to be able to purchase high end equipment. I realize that everyone does not. I have the best (all a matter of opinion) sources available. You can buy different, but not better. Some of this may well be the placebo effect. I don't know and neither do you. However, it doesn't matter. It makes me happy and that is all that matters.
That being said, a couple of points.
1. If you think a $20,000 system can compete with a $500,00+ system, you either have never heard a system of that caliber that is properly set up, or you are woefully uninformed.
2. In a highly resolving system, an equalizer most definitely introduces noise and reduces the fidelity of the system. When my current speaker system was being set up and replacing a prior system, I had a high end electronic crossover to a pair of subwoofers. We were trying to decide if subs were needed. We decided that they were not, but when we removed them and the crossover from the system, it was like a veil was lifted. The clarity and resolution improved dramatically. To me that was not at all expected, so it most definitely was not placebo effect.
Bottom line...my vinyl system makes me happy and whether or not it can be measured, I think is sounds better than digital in many cases. A lot of other people feel the same way. That is all that matters.
@@AlessandroFilippiUX that's right, and the people buying don't give a shit. It's a power play for many of them. And it's nothing compared to the cost of thier Yachts and personal Jets..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Its about the journey. Digital sounds great but it sounds clinical and too perfect. Vinyl or RECORDS as you like to call them have a completely different delivery to the ears that come across as being more human and realistic regardless of what the graphs and measurements say and I listen to mostly digital myself but prefer how the vinyl sounds. There in no other format that is bringing more and more people into the "hobby" than vinyl. As for the yachts and private jets, 99% of the people who love vinyl and have decent rigs are regular folks who worked their ass off to get the gear they have. Chill out for f",k sake.
I'm getting old - approaching 60. My hearing isn't what it once was. I have tinnitus. I know I have some high frequency loss. You know what I can hear? Snaps, crackles and pops. Vinyl is expensive to buy. It's expensive and a pain in the butt to maintain.
There's a reason we abandoned vinyl en masse in the 1980 & 90s. CDs kicked vinyls butt. CDs were programmable. They offered noise-free listening. They sounded great.
These days we have HiRes audio files which supposedly beat CD quality sound. Given that CDs were designed to surpass the limits of human hearing and I'm older now, all I can say about that is "That's nice."
The thing that is awesome about streaming these days is that they've achieved the same quality that I love. Streaming services give me access to a seemingly unlimited library of music. My WiiM Pro streams 24 bit sound quality. There's no comparison to vinyl to be had.
I'm still putting together my system. I guess that's going to be a never ending project. It's called a hobby for a reason, right?
Part of that system will be a turntable. I have a Dual 1264 in the shop right now. I'm having it cleaned, lubed and properly set up. When it's all said & done I'll probably be in it for $150. Duals are known to be good turntables - at least as good or better than what you will pay more than $500 for new today.
But it's strictly nostalgia. I have old vinyl which I will play. I have some really great old classical LPs that I'll enjoy the experience of playing. But if I want superior sound - it'll be streaming or CD.
as someone who enjoys getting a bit ruined on a weekend and spinning a record I still have to totally agree with you, you are spot on and someone had to come out and lay out the facts
How much should I plan to pay for a streamer DAC combo that can beat the best vinyl rig? You think I can get by with $500?
NO. roughly $30K to beat the best vinyl rig, which would be over $100K
@@OCDHIFiGuy Well, how good can I get for, say $1,000? Is that going to sound like garbage?
I’ve owned a serious Reel to Reel system and it is by far the best sounding source all things being equal concerning the software. My turntable smokes every digital rig I’ve ever heard or owned including the Playback Designs MPS-8 which is on my rack. A great deal of the information you’ve espoused shows bias and someone who has probably never owned a world class TT system.
My tape system was about $10k but the material was far few and in between and I was tired of spending $500 for a tape that might be superlative or may be average.
Why people who don’t own vinyl worry about people who do own vinyl I’ll never understand.
I listen to digital, tape (used to) and vinyl and it goes in this order from best to less. Tape > TT > Digital.
You might prefer your TT but the fact of the matter is every Iphone (with headphone out) wipes the floor with vinyl - any vinyl - when it comes to preserving the qualities of the original analog signal. Cannot change the laws of physics.
I don’t know if you’re trying to be funny or serious. Since digital is a discrete encoding methodology by nature, it inherently is lossy. Looking at that old Denon table, although it’s fine, is like driving a Miata and then stating that a more expensive 911 is a waste of money on the track. When I speak about things, I make sure I add “in my experience”. I like digital and I do like the MPS-8 but it can not touch my Artisan Fidelity NGS, Kuzma 4 Point and Ortofon MC Anna. Even my ex girlfriend was blown away by what it does next to really superlative digital.
The only thing that matters is what we individually like, but some of the things you say seem to be extremely uninformed.
@@donaldnance1135 Of course digital is inherently lossy. But so is analog. Contrary to what many vinylphiles want to believe analog does not have infinite resolution. Digital's limits of resolution are much further away than analog's. A simple test illustrates this beautifully: you can produce an audibly indistinguishable digital copy of analog. But you cannot produce an audibly indistinguishable copy of digital with analog. It is this simple. End of story, game over. It is perfectly ok to like the distortions of analog, of course. But only digital is able to preserve the original qualities of the analog signal from the microphones.
First, using a moniker like Nyquist, I’d think you would know better. I’m not sure what you mean by you can not create an analog copy of digital. First we don’t hear in digital, it is an encoding scheme to represent a continuous sinusoidal waveform. I can absolutely create an analog of a digital signal, it’s called an ADC, analog to digital converter.
The fact is, if you think music out of an iPhones headphone jack sounds good, we are operating on two complete different dimensions of what good sound is. I’ll leave you to your digital and I’ll listen to my very very excellent digital and my even better performing analog rig.
@@donaldnance1135 Did you miss the words "audibly indistinguishable"?
Hi Mikey what tape rig you running
I grew up listening to Elvis on 78s , the 1st records I ever bought. Then the Beatles albums on 33. I couldn't wait to see that format go. At age 75 nobody is less nostalgic for the days of records than me. I was an audiophile in the 70s and looked forward to a future of clean, perfectly reproduced music that I knew was right around the corner. And it was! No more cassettes, 8 tracks, records, or unwieldy reel to reel machines. Yay! Then Michael Fremer happened. I like him very much, seems like a great guy, but he's set audio reproduction back 100 years. And people who know nothing about audio, physics, or basic math, buy in. It breaks my heart. At 11 years old I could easily see all the limitations of records. They sucked then and they suck now.
Not really, hearing a great 35MM film to 2 track to vinyl with these new optical cartridges is absolutely amazing...technology has gained tremendously on all fronts
@@michaelrovner4165 If you're loving it I'm fine. That's all that really matters.
Can't afford a high end reel to reel love to have one, hard to get tapes,
I agree with Mikey about vinyl, it is archaic format with many flaws. However it can sound very good (good type of distortions plus good mastering with no loudness war madness) I am not the enemy of it, especially for old jazz records, classical music collections. I am just not a collector, I am happy with simple tidal (without mqa).
I am sorry Mike but this video was very disappointing. The last few videos just kinda sorta smell of desperation. Don’t know what’s going on but I don’t see where you are going with this. I hope you realize that you are really insulting some of your viewers. Worse thing is that in reality you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to vinyl. You don’t want people to spend money on streamers, pre-amps, chinese DACs because people need to spend money on what you dictate. Sorry but you are screwing up and you will loose folk over these kind of rants they really sound desperate. You say you are being honest. I am being honest.
Thanks Monte, I really appreciate your honesty. Im glad you feel comfortable enough to do so. I wish the world would do this . Insofar as "losing" customers, its simply not happening. Im weeding out people that are not my vibe and gaining those that are. My sales numbers have gone stellar since I started to "piss people off" by speaking my mind. What you are hearing is the opposite of desperate. Clearly Im doing very well because I dont care if I "Lose " people for speaking my mind. A desperate seller pisses nobody off to get sales, they behave and say what the buyer wants to hear. What they say changes depending on whom they are trying to sell to. Thats called "selling out" and acting disingenuous for a sale. I dont do that. I say what I feel and if you dont like my honesty, you can buy somewhere else. Im jaded and cynical because im sick of the High end audio bullshit. I dont hide my resentment, I share it. So Im genuine. I dont need to fake my feelings not to offend you ... If you have depth of perception you understand me. I am a good honest seller and im here to promote my business ... thats it ... Other than that this is entertainment for me. Many others would love to say what I do but are too afraid to be unliked or talked about.. I am here for the buyer and vinyl is NOT needed for good sound... Trust me I want people to spend money, they just dont need to spend ridiculous money for things that will not serve them in the future.
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks for your candid reply. I will continue to watch your videos as in the past I have gotten good info from them. I do think you have the whole analog and vinyl thing wrong and time will tell. Myself, I will continue on my path. Thanks Mike appreciate it.
He doesn't insulting any viewers, many of them don't take him seriously.
And if they do, i feel sorry for them.
@@OCDHIFiGuy YOU'R RIGHT I'M A NEW SUB. LOVE DRAMA
@@SaraNZW what are you talking about ? Lol. My hifi Tribe has 5000 members and growing every day ! Lol.
Mikey,
Have you tried out the Playback Designs SACD Disc Player? There are those of us that have hundreds of CD's, SACD's and other hi-res CD format disks, such as K2HD, XRCD, other 20 - 24 bit formats. You can really hear the difference in my opinion. Like the time consuming nature of LP's, I can't imagine converting all of my CD's to digital/hi-res files. It's like putting the LP on the platter, but we put the shiny disk into the player! Thanks.
I have not yet, as its $20K and I have maybe 6 SACD's ... Im thinking of getting one anyways as it can have a streamer put inside... Stay tuned, but you are correct, Legend has it the best playback from this unit is from the SACD Transport.
Really, what's the point of arguing what's a better format. You're not going to change people's minds. Some people think books are antiquated, some people love 78's and go as far as using well thought out turntables for dubbing to a Studer Revox, Nagra IV S with appropriate phono preamp(personally, I've known people that do this). Who am I or anyone else to tell them otherwise? An argument against your thesis is that many feel that digital streaming is cold, soulless endeavor, more importantly, it commoditizes the artists, turning their sweat equity into something you purchase by the pound. Holding up some wonderfully pressed lp with cover art, and writing that you can see and touch gives you a connection to the artist that made it. People do like that. Look, I get that recent digital recording technology is better than analog recording. I won't argue that point, I'm certified, dipping my toes into the deep end of audio, and probably spend more than I should, have since the seventies, but I enjoy most things audio; as a matter of fact, years ago a friend of mine invited me to his families place on a lake in a sort of wilderness area and we went up there one winter for a week. They were an eclectic family, no tv up there but it was filled with books, lots of first editions, and an old tube radio with FM(not all these radios have modern FM, tuning bands). But they also had a Victrola sitting on a table, the classic looking (brass?) horn, and a wall of 78 shellacs. Started playing one after another, scratchy sounding, I don't think more than 25dB dynamic range, but wow after a while, the noise sort of disappears, and realize these shellacs, are direct to discs. Some are as direct to disc as it gets as there are no electronics but are purely mechanical in the way they were recorded. Once you get past the surface noise it was surprising how much real music was on them, a sort of dirty window, view of the stage. It surprised me how much I liked it. Sometimes people are just happy where they're at. SeeYa!
First audiophile I have ever heard mention collecting silver and gold. Silver the most undervalued item on our planet right now.
Preaching to the choir. Problem is it takes up too much space !!
I totally agree, although there are exceptions. Like all the pre-digital albums from the 70’s-80’s that were well recorded like the MFSL, various other German, French, US and other Direct-to’s and such. Also, more recently the higher quality DSD that we go out to both digital (PCM) and master to tape and vinyl- those are a level above the typical PCM digital stuff. But that is a small percentage of the market. Otherwise, putting up with the pops, clicks, cleaning and such is not for the sonic quality. Like SET tube class A, it may be different and even more “pleasing” to some, but as far as fidelity to the original, it is lower than the digital, or solid state alternative.
that´s the problem with digital if lots of instruments played ,high volume equals to distortion, better let the original volume level ,not try to increase it, it´s the same when recording a cassette in a good deck
Well-pressed and well-maintained LPS on a decent system are pop and click-free less than 1% of the time to my ears, on my system, so I often wonder how many people emphasizing this about vinyl have a vinyl collection predominantly of this kind. My collection is predominantly original issues from the 70s and 80s, plus better audiophile pressings AP, Speakers Corner, certain later MOFIs, ORG, and so on. So sometimes the exceptions are substantial. To my ears, except with more 'demanding' large scale classical orchestral pieces, overall vinyl sounds more like live music to me than digital does. Good vinyl is usually more pleasing to my ears than good digital (especially redbook format) because it surpasses digital in more of the ways that I value, while digital is superior-sounding to me in the less important acoustic parameters.
I have a 20k Linn Klimax DSM, my LP12 wipes the floor with it.
"Monkey in a cage", "You are being hand shoveled a shit sandwich". LMAO Mike! I'm gonna lead with that every time anyone talks about vinyl for any reason. On a more serious note: I don't doubt there's someone out there who truly think vinyl is a superior format, but most times people who are into it are pretty quick themselves to admit that it's a deeply flawed system and it's about the feel/experience rather than ultimate sound. For fun just like you say.
Totally .. you nailed it ....
*❌ Mikey’s definitely a ((X-GEN’er)) 😎👍 ‼️* _LOVE IT_
Not Mr Fremer …..
Agree. See my post above. For me vinyl is nostalgia. It’s how I listened to music when I was a kid. It tracks my life. I remember where and when I bought certain records. Listening to vinyl is a ritual. Taking the album off the shelf, cleaning it. Putting the stylus down etc. It isn’t about SQ.
RJ 👋😎 for today , exactly ‼️
So glad I found you. I'm in the market for a system, and the possibilities out there are mind-blowing, as well as confusing. I love your "no bullshit" presentation.
One question: What is the name of that killer track you were dancing too?
From the Human Beinz.... Cant remember, but it wont be hard to find..
Thanks Mikey😀- Keep the videos coming! 👏🎤
There's one simple question guys like this can never answer: Why do you care? It's not like these vinyl enthusiasts are spending your money.
LOL, its not clear as a freaking bell Im selling Digital playback systems ? not obvious enough that I want people to buy my stuff instead of the next guys ?... .. HEL-LO !!
Is there as big a selection of titles among the mentioned "$300 tapes" as there are vinyl titles or digital titles?
Depending on who you ask and what you're willing to pay, yes.
But I'm told record labels don't particularly like giving out copyrights and master tapes.
OCD Mikey, some people like analogue. You like digital. Leave it alone. No need to call analogue a farce.
I hear you, but people watch his page for his opinion
@@StanThePigeon It does not sound like personal opinions to me. More like statements of facts.
@@artyfhartie2269to say something is better is an opinion
@@StanThePigeon Opinion on audio sound is subjective based on taste, hearing and personal preference. It is not an objective finding based on scientific research and laboratory experiments
What DAC are you recomemding?
What's the budget ?
Yes and no.I agree streaming is much better value.I do not agree about not needing a good active preamp and phono preamp [ideally combined].And that applies to both digital and analog reproduction.A good active preamp simply makes everything sound more realistic and involving.And a good phono preamp is critical to getting the best sound out vinyl.When you get the preamp/phono preamp right the best of your records will sound better than the best of your digital.Which is not to say that some recordings in digital will not sound better than the vinyl versions .Unfortunately it is impossible to know which records will sound better until you try them.
There are exceptions to the Preamp thing. If you are vinyl you are stuck with needing 2 other pieces, phono pre and preamp. With a high level DAC and no vinyl, you need neither, plus you can subtract TT, arm, and cart, plus all motors, power supplies, etc.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have high level digital including Accuphase and Krell DACs .The Accuphase has a volume control and multiple inputs .My digital always sounds much better via my preamps[ Supratek].
@@thomothomo1078 Krell is only really known for thier power amps. Never DACs. Accuphase..probably better than the Krell. Playback Designs sounds best without a preamp. Every time. No exceptions.
Should i get rid of the idea of a music server and just get a streamer?
Not necessarily. Music server is self contained.
You are speaking the truth, and I agree with your argument, but I don't buy vinyl for "better audio quality", I buy for the pleasure of holding the physical form in my hand, I don't have an expensive system, far from it, but I like the sound, I like the hunt for a reasonable condition copy or a record for a low price. I enjoy collecting, it's more than just listening to the music, to me it's the whole package I get with vinyl collecting. Great video 👍
There you go Simon, thats EXACTLY why people should enter the vinyl hobby..
which dac you recommend?
What budget ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy up to around $us 15,000.
I wonder how many times a MoFi “digital” record was used to demo a $30,000 Kronos turntable 😂🤦♂️🤷🏼♂️
Lol, a troublemaker, huh? I'll bet more than once...
No need to get upset, just everyone enjoy their format of music. I agree with 4998, I to hope more people move away from vinyl so i can build up my vinyl collection.
I sort of agree with you as I "tried" to get back into the record game again (linn+Van den Hul+chord) and STILL couldn't get the sound I wanted! I bought many turntables and cartridge combos (too much maintenance etc.) and I couldn't deal with the surface noise either. Now I have gone back to SACDs and Qobuz via my Auralic streamer (MUCH BETTER!!!!). Also streaming (qobuz) has come a LONG WAY and now sound quite terrific.
i have several technics and pioneers from the 70´s also a thorens from 1970 ,what maintenance ? belts and needles ,normally today the problem is not the cartridge but the bad sound of modern amplifiers ,mainly the phono input
You pissed me off so much I just subscribed lol. Good job on your video !
LOL, Thanks Brother ! Much Obliged !
Agree that a stick w/ a pointy rock on the end being dragged through a small soft plastic groove shouldn't sound close to as good as a well put together tape or digital front end. If you actually listen to a well set up turntable rig, it's obvious that vinyl can be a lot better than our humble narrator would have you believe. A Feickert Blackbird/ Kuzma 4 point/Lyra Atlas front end will easily out perform the $1500 Rega referred to here, and (depending on the recording being used) it can equal or better a similarly priced digital front end. There are hundreds if not thousands of great recordings that you can only get on vinyl and even more recordings that were poorly transferred into a digital format. As a result, the LP will often sound better than the CD or the digital file. I wish this were not true, vinyl is a pain in the ass and no one will be happier than me when there there is no sonically based justification to keep a turntable in the system. If you don't have a good turntable set up, don't get one, ignore all the shit i just wrote and by all means hold on to the confirmation bias that this video is helping to reinforce
Fully agreed and tbh you don’t need that expensive gig you mentioned. My Hifi rig turntable plus preamp and amp I’ve collected over the years costs around $5k and there have been many times where an album on vinyl sounded much better than it’s digital counterpart. This is mostly true of pre 1980 recorded stuff and also a lot of the bluenote jazz titles or early 70s rock music pressings.
I will say though that for current music it’s a total waste to buy on vinyl.
Bottom line is I enjoy both formats and chose How I want to listen depending on the album and genre I’m listening to.
In all this there is one other format that Reigns supreme because it is by far the closest to original and that is R2R but sadly I can only afford to buy maybe one tape a year two at most.
"you will own nothing and be happy"
The hidden agenda of OCD! If you sold turntables and cartridges and arms or even records, vinyl would be the greatest thing. Vinyl sounds better - period.
It's not exactly hidden. If it's not Playback Designs, it's rubbish.
@@matthewbarrow3727 if you don’t own a turntable and can’t compare, you don’t know Jack. OCD is a walking infomercial for Playback Designs. If he sold a turntable line, it would be the greatest thing. Total phony.
@@stevejohnson9058 I was agreeing with you, and being sarcastic. I own an Akurate level Linn Sondek LP12. Prince on vinyl sounds great. It sounds rubbish on Qobuz. The back end of my system is a Legacy Audio Valor speaker system, where I use a tube integrated amp to deal with the tweeter and upper midrange. I also have a Lumen U1 streamer. This is up around the $90,000 region.
@@matthewbarrow3727 I know you were. Nice system. Would love to hear your LP12. Oh, and the LP12 is how old? 50 years? And still a great table. Try that with digital!
@@stevejohnson9058 Mine is 35 years old. However, I upgraded the parts last year after the motor died. Also replaced the cartridge as that had definitely worn out.
Many of my records are not available in any other format including streaming.
You've failed to mention a very important point. Not all digital sources available through streaming services are the best available sources. In order to get the best available source you need the master tape. NO WAY all digital available through streaming comes from master tape! That's why some vinyl pressings kill digital through streaming!
In fact, most of the time you have no idea what the original source is from digital recording via streaming. I use Qobuz and Audirvana. Some selections in Audirvarna have a HQ by the title but that's it.
I have some vinyl pressings that KILL what I've heard through streaming.
So, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Some digital sounds great. I've heard it for myself but I have some vinyl that blows away what I've heard streaming digital! Oh and by the way, I own the music. When the internet takes a shit or a streaming service goes belly up I can still play my music!
Dinosaur you say??? I'm not the one with grey hair, bucko!
Pretty sure that’s not what he Ment 👋🤨‼️ your making a mountain out a mole hill ✅
Overstated. Forget streaming. Go CD that is well recorded with DAC or Hi Rez. Esoteric will blow vinyl down the hole, even those that cost 100k. Nostalgia.
What about av receivers? They seem to have almost everything required to play digital sources. I'd rather not deal with separates. Am I missing something here?
A couple of years ago I sold my £8k+ turntable and £2k phono preamplifier. Also sold off quite a few records and donated the rest to charity, a mostly classical music collection accumulated over a period of 40 years, keeping a small number of records that hold sentimental value and memories.
I now listen entirely to digital, mostly CDs bought over a similar period and don't miss the expense, stress and time getting the best from vinyl. If you don't mind that, then vinyl can provide incredible sound quality besides the satisfaction and pleasure that collectors and hobbyists of all kinds derive, more so than digital can give.
Brother when you go to a life concert does it sounds digital or analog? Life performance’s are not perfect just like vinyl play back!
It doesn't sound like digital OR analog. That's not how sound works. You don't hear bits.
It sounds like shit is what it sounds like. That's why we're into home audio so we can actually hear the music. But the ways in which it sounds shit are completely different to the ways in which vinyl sounds shit. Vinyl is not superior and it sure as FUCK isn't authentic. It's about as far from it as you can get.
You’re just being very ignorant. Antiquated or archaic no it’s not. You don’t have to spend $125 for a mobile fidelity pressing you can find a nice clean original copies that sound really good. I think Compact Disc Can sound very good as well with a good hi-fi system and higher quality CD player. I wonder what Michael fremmer would think of your video. Do you actually listen to Records at all? They definitely have a more three dimensional Fuller more real sound. You’re just shouting on your video and sounding annoying. I think you need to get out and take a nice lady out to dinner and have some fun with her
The three dimensional aspect is an illusion created by the crosstalk inherent in reproducing two channels with one single stylus. You can hear this effect in the lead in and lead out grooves as a presence between the two speakers - something happens in one channel there is a corresponding effect in the other - it is merely distortion.
great video. Love the channel. I'm 67 years old and back in the day we had nothing but vinyl. No Internet, no MP3, no compact discs. Streaming was called the radio. My record collection is modest. I have about 1300 albums. My CD collection is a little over 2000. I enjoy both and do not debate whether one is better than the other. Two different formats. I loved the process of buying records as a teenager and playing it while I read the liner notes. Still love the whole vinyl playback process because that's what I grew up with. But I love my CDs as well. Stereo systems can be a rabbit hole. I had owned a real nice cassette deck and a reel to reel machine but no longer have either. Now it's just records and CDs. I don't stream and at my age I don't need to. Is streaming better? Don't know, don't care. I'll continue to enjoy what I have until I expire.
Thanks for the video 🙂
I think there's something qualitatively valuable about owning the music you enjoy beyond nostalgia or having a hobby or fetishization of physical objects. Tidal, Apple, Spotify, Amazon etc. don't really care about music. Music is a means for them to sell you technology and services. They're also doing a terrible job of becoming profitable. When I buy a record I know that I'll have it until I sell it or my house burns down. I can't say the same for any of my favorited albums in Qobuz or Tidal because at any point the company could go belly-up or they could swap the master on me.
I hear ya, but there is a middle ground owning those digital files. I refuse to be beholden to a streaming service, or the internet to get my 100 percent CD rip/purchased file, digital library.
@@particularlynothing Same here. I use Qobuz for most of my listening. When I find an album I *really* like and don't want to risk being pulled by Qobuz, I'll just buy the download, or buy a used CD and rip it. It's for me to keep till I die. I have a robust backup strategy to make sure I don't lose them.
Are you trying to push a hype on Master TAPES? where can you get a copy of that? How many records you can buy to keep it analog? Streaming is not even closed on sound quality reproduction and I'm sorry if I can't spend 25k on the 1 equipment you recommend.
In all of this craziness. I listen to music for fun. I enjoy everything be it a Stream, CD, or Record. I admit, I do enjoy my rig the most just playing my old LPs on my TT. I love what you are trying to accomplish and always glean some useful insights to this hobby. Alas, I am at a different place. I used to, but stopped working towards obtaining purist sound possible a long time ago. I no longer desire becoming a slave to Toys that are often times way too expensive, comprise too many hassles, and create Too Much Stress. I found there is no reward in obsessing over the B.S. that a lot of us folks (Me included) think make up the very best playback system possible. This for me is a merely a hobby, that reaches its pinnacle, when you are able to crack open a cold one, and unwind to your favorite recording. For the likes of me, fixating on the something as inane as what source material gives you the very best music reproduction, sucks way too much joy out of it.
Abso freaking lutely.. When your rig connects you to the music whereby you cant daydream while its playing , then STOP. Time to check audio system off the list.
you know people endlessly scrolling tiktok reels or FB or insta? Streaming is basically that but for your ears - the perfect medium for people with blipvert attention spans who don't listen to albums from start to finish the way they were intended
youre forgetting about the mastering. all thos 60 70s tapes were made with vinyl in mind and were mastered from fresh tapes. a lot of the digital/DSD you get could be mastered in a worse way or made from more worn tapes. so the vinyl could still sound better than digital. and since vinyl was around for the 50s/60/70s/80s all those are mostly going to sound better on vinyl.
yes tape is the best format however 1:1 copies of your favourite 60s 70s albums were never released on high quality tape. so your selection is extremely limited.
vinyl is the best overall medium if your favourite music is from the 50s/60s/70s/80s...
Tape is my best format for the old stuff and my DSD rips are indistinguishable, and streaming on my rig is 95% the quality of my DSD rips so vinyl is a non starter.. Ill go against vinyl with streaming anyday in my rig... Vinyl is not that great and definitely not the end all be all... Its fun ....
@@OCDHIFiGuy Where do you buy the tapes of the music that you like that you're making DSD rips of?