It very much sounds like something midwives and doctors said to fathers when they knew the girl was pregnant out of marriage. Hurrying to get her married to save her "health" could avoid a lot of embarrassment or even prevent the girl from being able married.
Yea I would say up to the idk 1960-70's being born out of wedlock and being called a Bastard child Was really hurtful And it meant something. Unlike today
@@juliamartinshistoryAlso I felt like there was potentially soooo much overt dog-whistling going on, at least in certain classes / contexts in controlled male spaces. (Ie for pregnant, sexual, queer, non conforming or otherly “problematic” “girls”) That is in terms of fathers writing to doctors for diagnosis etc. The initial letter almost sounds like a fake account fabricated in writing for an infomercial. It’s a very convenient way to have a “official permission slip” to deal with any form of deviance . I mean this in the sense of “gentlemen’s language” / regulated spaces of power akin to something like getting a medical cannabis pass from a doctor in progressive states where cannabis hasn’t been legalized. “Hey doc I have anxiety” “oh here’s your pass” - Socio-economic free will problem solved…I think we miss a tremendous amount of things like this historically due to the simple lack of recorded context & who controlled that narrative… if we don’t even have standard white-wash recipes bc it was so “common knowledge”… it’s probably the kind of thing ppl would roll their eyes abt now if they heard us discussing it with so much citation / debate at hand. Medical patriarchal and oppressive narratives have a way of sanitizing things in a way that sticks in the records despite seeming obviously false/formality in the present.
I grew up I'm a culture much like this and where women who had sex outside of marriage were treated by their fathers (my father as evidenced by the way he treated my sisters when they lost theirs) as if they would be better dead than impure. I was in my mid 20s by the time I met my husband and I didn't know about green sickness, but I was convinced that all my ailments, of which I had many, were because I desired marriage so much and didn't have it. About a year after getting married, all my ailments that the doctors could never explain went away. Stress. It was stress. Stress of being in that culture, stress of being under my father's authority at 24, stress of everything. My husband is the man of my dreams, and we live FAR away from my parents, and I've never been happier. I've been "cured" for 2 years now.
Oh dear, that must have been incredibly difficult. I can't imagine what you and your sisters went through, I'm so sorry. It's incredible what stress and living in a hostile environment can do to the body. I'm glad to hear that you're doing better now! ♥
I was very depressed in my teenage years and in a similar fashion, that as been cured in my older years being married and having good financial standing. Whenever I visit my childhood home more than 12 hours, I can feel darkness come over my mood. The energy of my parents and the disorganized dusty home and property pull me down quickly. I’m so glad I don’t live there anymore!
@@mylesgray3470 I have literally the same experience when I go back home. One thing I keep thinking of is how when I'm with my husband, several tens of hours drive away from my family, I can grow my nails out long and beautiful in a way I was never able to before, but the moment I'm back in that same area as my family, I quickly bite them down without even realizing it and it takes months for me to recover enough to grow them out. I'm so glad you're in a better place now. I hope for nothing but the best for you and your life
Yeah, I was thinking about how it def sounded like you were experiencing some type of psychosomatic response, and from what you said about the immense stress you were feeling, it sounds like you were indeed. I'm so glad you were able to free yourself from what sounds like a harrowing experience and your life dramatically improved. So often, that dire need to escape a toxic family is so pressing, that driven by pure impulse, rather than logic (or love in your case😉) it results in a train wreck of regrettable consequences that can unfortunately take decades to disentangle ourselves from, so you have been truly blessed in your experience🥰 ... (I might have had some experience with that darker side aforementioned 🫣... But hey, it may have taken decades, but today I, too can honestly say I'm finally free😊).
She sounds like she might be anemic. Pregnancy is the last thing they should consider until the anemia is dealt with. It's pretty common in girls after puberty.
Lol My medical history: X will get better when puberty hits -when puberty is finished -when hormones even out -once uterus adapts to periods -when you go on the pill -go off the pill -get pregnant -are pregnant -finish being pregnant - finish being postpartum -finish breastfeeding -finish menopause -finish postmenopause -add hrt therapy -finish hrt therapy I’m waiting for my doctor to suggest that at 65 my arthritis is somehow related to my long defunct uterus.
Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through this. It must be so frustrating. How awful it must be to be told that you're always a step away from feeling better... I hope you find a doctor soon who can actually help you! ♥
I have to suggest you look into ATI sensitivity- similar symptoms and same triggers as celiac. Some of my female ancestors became crippled from mysterious arthritis, I almost did too, till I sniffed out that it was wheat/cereal grains causing it. A note; vinegar from grains can trigger it, unlike celiac. Really sad that what took my great grandmother was the same plant being harvested in her backyard, and would have been cured by simply not eating it. I am not saying what you have is an ATI sensitivity, but it is something novel to look at.
When I was younger, there was a story of a small group of women who decided to go one step further than vegetarianism, and went straight to eating dirt. They found some that they particularly liked. Their skins started turning green, which they took to mean that they were starting to develop some chlorophyll. Turned out though, that the dirt they liked contained copper. But for a while there, they thought they were on to some basic principle. Funny how attitudes develops and change
I am imagining all kinds of scenarios where different parties have a motivated reason for diagnosing green sickness. From a young woman who is pregnant, or just in love, to a father who wants to advertise his weak and sickly daughter as extra-attractive, to a doctor who wants an easy answer to a case he can't figure out. I also wonder if it's possible that sometimes dads were just totally clueless about their daughter's use of cosmetics and that played into the whole "green" part? Maybe especially with leaded cosmetics? Idk. Very interesting!
I think it's definitely possible that there were many clueless dads mixed in these stories! And I agree with you, it's easy to imagine lots of different scenarios based on the premise of green sickness, right? It would definitely make for a lovely historical novel... ;)
Iron deficiency based anemia makes sense especially considering the pica. If these girls indeed deprived themselves of food it would explain how they got the deficiency. Marriage indeed might have been a cure if it resulted in the girls eating properly instead of starving themselves.
Anytime a girl or woman had a health problem, or even an emotional reaction, the patriarchal society automatically assumed it was related to having a uterus. It's amazing women have survived this long in the Patriarchy.
I was in grad school, about to finish my Masters in Biochem, when one evening I went to the ER with horrible abdominal pain. The doctor asked if I could be pregnant -of course, always the first question of ANY doctor visit. I told her- HER-- that I was not, and she just kept poking my belly, and telling me, well, you know, the uterus is right here. I told her, yes, and there are other structures there as well, and I happen to know what causes pregnancy, and since my husband, who was in the Navy, had been at sea for several months, pregnancy, if present, would have been quite evident.
@@juliamartinshistory In the nearly thirty five years since that happened, I've often wondered about that doctor. It was a teaching hospital, and she was being trained in a very patriarchal system. I often wonder how her career progressed in the following years.
Very interesting video. I wanted to add that women are more likely to be diagnosed with autoimmune disorders, and the symptoms of a lot of those diseases really can improve for the duration of pregnancy, so that ‘cure’ isn’t all that far-fetched!
That thought hit me while watching. I was diagnosed with MCTD a month before I turned 25 but had mystery symptoms before then. Tired and muscle weakness,too much sun making it worse which leads to the paleness, malar rashes.... digestive issues and food sensitivities.... Course ,not all of these girls had one, but I could see some of them possibly having those issues...reminds me how many say my greatest great grandmother was a bit of a "hypochondriac" and always sickly or sitting a lot.... And I. Think later how she had a daughter who developed lupus...another with psoriasis...and so on to grandkids and great grandkids etc.
Oh I'm sorry to hear that! I hope you're doing better now. I tend to agree with you, there's a lot of overlap with many of these conditions. With so many symptoms, lots of different diagnoses would be possible depending on each case. Anyway, I hope you're doing ok! ♥
This excellent video reminded me of the situation regarding treatment for the really horrible disease of endometriosis. In the mid-20th Century, as I understand the story, the recommendation officially supported by the medical authorities in at least a few countries was to tell women to go away and have a baby, that childbirth would (probably/possibly) end the bleeding, tissue damage, and pain. This, however, wasn't the case at all, though some women might get relief for a few months or years during pregnancy and after childbirth. Also, of course, bringing a child into the world whose main purpose in life is to be sort of like a dose of aspirin isn't the most ethical thing in the world. And then there's the whole issue of locking women into a gender role they might not have chosen. In recent years, of course, physicians' national associations in various countries have deprecated and condemned the idea of a pregnancy cure for endo. Even today, however, doctors frequently give this same outdated advice to women with endometriosis -- I've heard this about the US & Australia, but probably there are other countries where this misguided practice still continues.
That is such an incredible parallel. I completely agree with you, not only is it a chilling concept, marrying and having children 'for your health', but the idea of having a child as a 'treatment' is horrific when you consider the child as well. We truly need to do better. Thank you for watching and for your thoughtful comment! :)
I disagree, we are biological organisms. The constant view that "muh patriarchy" onto anything or everything is disingenuous. The lack of positive diagnosis was more to do with a general lack of understanding of health. I have an ex and she had endometriosis and it went away after her first.. The mother of my children had fibroids and that too was resolved after our first child. When you look into herbal medicine of the past it is obvious that some, but not all, are based on ignorance and quackery
I was a 'treatment' baby. Let me tell you, it doesn't do good for one's mental health to know that you're only here because your mom had problems and the doctor told her she needs to give birth.
Thank you for this presentation. I am a male at 73 of age who was almost killed by my mother after I was born and under care at home. She tried to stab me and my father who was an Army medic in WW II and was used to dealing psychiatric cases. She had graduated from Bryn Mawr college with a degree in nuclear physic then worked a Mayo Clinic for 18 months making Radon seeds in gold tubes for cancer treatment experiments. This before waldo gear was designed so all work was done using mirrors with lead blocks for body and head protection with only the arms and hands exposed. She took 29 Radiation Absorbed Doses or RAD in the 18 months. She took her master's degree in Nuclear Physics at Northwestern University. During that period, she married my dad. She did have electroshock therapy which worked. I was in the care for much of that period by mom's nanny Tin Tin who help raise her and her 3 sister one who died at age 12 of spinal meningitis possibly from an insect bite. Tin Tin was from Ireland and worked for the family from sometime just after WW I to the time she died around the mid 1960's.
Thank you for your comment, I'm glad you found the video interesting. And thank you for sharing your story. It must have been a difficult time in all of your lives. I'm so sorry you went through all of that, it must have been so harsh. I do hope you're doing well today, and I'm glad you had people to help you and support you when you were younger. :)
I always wondered why the Hardwicke marriage act (The first government act setting out the age at which people could get married in the UK -or at least England and Wales-) set the age at which someone didn't need parental consent to get married at 21, I thought it was to stop rich heiresses from running away with fortune seeking impoverished soldiers to Gretna Green in Scotland. But it was more so the wealthy families of London didn't have drawing rooms full of 'exceedingly wilted' debuted daughters to deal with
What a depressing thought! (Having said that, 'exceedingly wilted' would be a fantastic name for memoir, wouldn't it?! I'll keep it in mind...) Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment ;)
despite voting on the name poll, i totally forgot this was coming. the best surprise!! absolutely fascinating thank you! would love to see a video on hysteria!
It's the idea that period blood could be expelled from the body by other means, whether unprovoked, like a nosebleed, or through bloodletting, from the ankle, for instance. Many writers and medical professionals believed that to be possible, weird as it may sound haha
I think the letter is after the Reformation in England? Nun was not really an option there at that time. I know there are Anglican nuns but not really as many as before the Reformation.
I am 76. When’s i was young, I broke my arm and that was called a green stick fracture. My thoughts are that green was a word used to mean young and/or inexperienced. Just a thought.
Interesting! I thought it meant that the bone had 'only' cracked, like a splintered tree branch. In any case, it's so interesting to see how comparisons with the colour green are everywhere in medicine!
It meant it was not a clean complete break. Like the difference between breaking an old dried stick a clean break in two and a green stick which is more flexible and breaks out on one side while still connected on the opposite side.
Gaslighting ? Hate for Woman ? All that, because sex out for marriage and a child out of marriage ... do you even have an inkling of an idea what an unwed and unprotected woman went through in the 1500s ?
Where is the misogyny? There are numerous health centres and hospital departments that cater exclusively to female patients, but there are no equivalent facilities for male patients, despite men having a shorter lifespan. Breast cancer receives significantly more funding than testicular cancer, even though they are equally likely to occur. Additionally, female patients are often provided with more privacy in hospitals compared to male patients.
At the symptoms list you gave at the start, my first thought was iron deficiency anemia. Pale, short of breath, but most significantly, wanting to eat non-food items. I have chronic anemia and the first sign I am getting a low on iron is when I get a drink and feel an absolute need to eat the ice cubes. At first I thought I just enjoyed eating ice cubes, but now I know whenI notice it happening I need to get to a doctor. Your video offered a lot of great explanations which really opened my eyes to how many diseases can present so similary. Thank you for being so informative!
Thank you for your comment, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. I'm sorry to hear about your anaemia, I hope you can manage it well enough to feel ok! What you mentioned about the ice is so interesting, thank you for sharing. :)
I'm always anemic too. I don't have a freezer so no ice cubes, but I feel like eating and drinking cold and sugary stuff when it gets bad. The ice cubes thing is well known to occur with anemia.
The video I watched just before you was about changes in linguistic "rules" over centuries, so it made it easier for me to understand your warning to not project Hypochromic Anemia backwards to Green Sickness diagnoses from the 17th century. Also, the way that medicine can be socially constructed (even today!) is so fascinating but also incredibly scary
I couldn't agree more... It's super interesting but definitely scary how ideas like these can be constructed! (And that video sounds great - it's so hard not to rely on contemporary meanings to understand the past!) Thank you for your comment :)
Thank you, that's so kind of you. It's definitely something that I was worried about... It's a weird and interesting bit of history, but because it's so unknown I wasn't sure if people would want to watch the video!
@@juliamartinshistoryI can't speak for others but anything related to women's history is always interesting to me (although it often upsets me... I'm so thankful I was born in this time period)
So much to say about this video! I dare to say - once again - my favorite video so far! I would love videos on every topic you mentioned. Mostly, I'm curious about nutrition advice in the early modern period based on sex-gender... What a girl on her period or a pregnant woman would have to eat etc. Also, how was the menospause understood back then? Pancake, as always, the perfect co-host. It really gives us the creeps reading these very much older men talking in such condescending and sexualizing way about this 13 year-old girls... Funny to notice how much hysteria has been fetichised, filmed, photographed, painted, written about while green sickness has not. Any ideia why that would be? Hysteria seems ever present in the discourse, while green sickness seemed to vanish altogether, we don't have popular cultural narratives about it.
Thank you so much, it's so great to hear that you enjoyed the video! ♥ I agree with you, both diet and gender/sex and the history of menopause are interesting ideas to explore. And yes, the physicians' comments are beyond creepy... About popular representations of green sickness today, compared to hysteria, that's a good question. I think the main difference is that Charcot literally made a spectacle of hysteria and invited artists to his hospital, giving them pretty unlimited access to his patients and also holding his public demonstrations. Plus it was the time of the boom of photography. And his personal fame was only superseded by Freud, who watched the demonstrations and popularised hysteria even further, even as he moved on from focusing on it. This was also the time when the novel was establishing itself as one of the most popular media to tell stories and it was particularly good at exploring people's inner lives, and so a string of 'hysterics' could be depicted, like Mme Bovary. Plus, it was a useful category to use against first-wave feminism (if only it had stopped there...). Anyway, I think there are many different reasons why hysteria has survived in popular culture and green sickness didn't, and it's definitely something to explore in the future! ♥
That quote from Jane Sharp is fascinating (15:10). It seems as though the distinction between women and maids was being made on the basis that some women migh fall pregnant, suffer from hyperemesis or whatever, spontaneously miscarry -- early enough in the pregnancy that it just seems like a heavy period, or later, but the women hid the specifics out of fear/shame -- and then "go back to normal." You can see how the patriarchy hampered medical advancement in both a top-down and a bottom-up way.
Love it! More on women’s deaseses. Maybe a bit about Trota of Salerno and the female doctors / medics of the Middle Ages, like Rebecca Guarna, Abela and the like?
The 'green-sickness' (aka chlorosis), was likely not a single disease entity, but a name applied to at least two distinct conditions affecting young females in the past. The first ('chloro-anaemia') was a form of hypochromic anaemia possibly associated with gastric ulceration and poor diet. This form predominated in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. The second ('chloro-anorexia') was a disorder of psychogenic origin resembling, but not identical to, anorexia nervosa. The latter form predominated in earlier periods but also occurred throughout the nineteenth century; it was also known as 'the virgin's disease' or 'febris amatoria'. The 'green' of 'green-sickness' may originally have indicated innocence rather than a green colour of the sk
Thank you for this video. This is a diagnosis of which I have never heard. It seems also that amenorrhea, as you noted , may be a deficiency disease . In a time of famine this could certainly occur. And , being that fertile productive women would likely be better fed during famine it could be noted as a disease of poverty and the least marriageable. This would also apply to “ green sickness” in Shakespeare fish eating lads.
Yes, I think you're right. And it's a condition that has been largely forgotten today, but for centuries it was a fairly common diagnosis! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video, thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
The whole time I was watching your video, I was thinking about Bridgerton and the social rules to protect the virginity of women and keep the men at bay.
At 20:44, reminds me of the equally incredibly talented Hildegard von Blingen, Canadian TH-camr, singer, songwriter, musician and artist. Love everything she posts!
Júlia, I loved this video, not only for the extremely interesting and enlightening content but for the exquisite presentation… beautiful to watch! and I am particularly interested in the history of medicine, because as you said, first of all it makes us aware of the social and psychological context of the times. congratulations and a kiss!
This is fascinating! I'd heard of this before, but always in relation to it most likely being anemia and/or just people obsessed with marrying off young girls. This gave ma y other explanations or idea that really show how the medical establishment and women have errrrrr ....had an interesting relationship throu the years 😅 I really need videos on the menstruating men now....,like yesterday.
Haha 'interesting' definitely sums it up! About menstruating men, I'll definitely make a video on it soon, though I'm a bit apprehensive about YT guidelines... (hint: expect lots of talk about antisemitism, misogyny, and hemorrhoids...!) Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@juliamartinshistory I love his name Pancake and imagine that that may be another story. and the adorable way that he seeks and takes over the warm zones on your chair. I had to have two office chairs some years ago, because if i got up from a chair i was warming , a cat would invoke the divine right of cats and take it over so i did not want to move him. I also learned to take naps when my lap was being occupied. I am always interested in the evolution of thought in our species as we try to keep up with the paradigm shifts and shifts of framing of problems.
Lack of sex causes hormonal imbalance that would very much cause "Green Sickness". This has nothing to do with "patriarchy"... men experience the same health problems from celibacy. A lack of Prolactin and Oxytocin negatively affect sleep and health in a profound way. The deficiency and imbalance of Estrogen and Testosterone from celibacy negatively affects women's and men's health. (Yes, men produce estrogen and women produce testosterone.) Men who are celibate have identical negative health problems from celibacy... i.e. "green sickness" in addition to prostate issues. As for mental health... people who have high sex drives, celibacy will absolutely drive them crazy. (Women and men alike). So again, it is not a "sexism" or "patriarchy" issue. There is a reason why people who find a lover and/or get married to someone they actually like... "glow". Their physical and mental health has improved.
I understand your point, but it is a deeply personal question and the issue is that people should have agency - if they want to have sex/get married etc, great. If not, that should be respected too.
@@juliamartinshistory I highly doubt that as many women were being forced to marry against their will as feminists claim. But shotgun weddings certainly did exist to force men to take responsibility for the children they fathered.... and were the most common form of forced marriage. Things have greatly improved for both men and women in regards to sex. We certainly should be grateful for that. That being said, celibacy causes health problems, so people choosing to be celibate should know the risks.
Ballet helps, eat little more and “pushing” down the root chakra. For real - I had it and I know what I’m talking about. I think it’s called fibromyalgia myalgia these days but doctors prefer to say that they aren’t ill at all until the girls can’t walk.
There's definitely a lot of overlap between some of these cases and what we'd today call fibromyalgia. And, as someone who has loved ballet since I was 3 years old, I agree with you - ballet makes everything better! ♥
Diabetes can do it too. When my younger brother inherited diabetes appeared, he was 8y old - skin turned pale greenish, he was thin and weak. Dad was devastated looking at him and disagreed to visit doctor, fearing it came from his genes. Mom solved it but doctors asked: "Why so late, he is about to fall into coma" Survived! But I'm sure he was a virgin back then :)
yes, please do more videos about things like nymphomania and hysteria and other strange diseases that used to exist and don't seem to anymore, or they worked out the real reason for it, its interesting to learn things like this.
Interestingly, in the Scottish ballad, Tam Lin, Janet is described as being "as green as onie glass", i.e., having morning sickness. Her father recognizes it as such and asks if she was with child. I assume the glass was green because of iron contaminants in the glass of the time.
I wonder if the paleness was described as "green", because they were the kind of very pale where veins can be seen through the skin? Which could, maybe look more green than blue depending on skin tone.
Very true... And thank you! I'm not sure what kind of orchid it is, as it was a gift. I got it years ago from my neighbours when my daughter was born, and it's still thriving! ♥
I *need* to hear the stories about men who were thought to menstruate. I tried a search and all I got were gotcha videos from gender essentialists and the like. Ty you are awesome.
Thank you! I definitely need to make that video, it's such an interesting subject and very little discussed outside of academia! Thank you for your comment :)
Could have been anemia caused by malnutrition. In many cultures the best part of the meal was kept for the men in the household aka meat. After marriage she would have access to the good pieces because she would start preparing meat for her husband. Before marriage she is at the end of the food chain, unlike her mother who can secretly snack on meat while cooking it.
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! 😊 And Pancake would agree with you, he likes to belive he's a lord, or so it seems... I wish we knew what his breed was, but when we adopted him no one could tell us much!
Oh my, I just discovered this channel (now subscribed😉), so this video was my first of yours (the algorithm is actually working for me today lol😜), and good lord, I'm super impressed🤩 so far. Humanity's history can be pretty wild sometimes, can't it? Lol. Oh geez😂... Pretty soon after starting to watch this, I found myself pondering something that I was certain would be answered by the end, but... idk if you did go into it and I somehow missed it or what, but I didn't hear the answer like I was hoping for🤷♀️. Soooooo... I'm curious if you found anywhere in your research ... 🫣 ok I honestly feel silly asking, but I'm dying to know🤭... was there any actual evidence, or even pseudo-evidence for that matter, seeming to somehow confirm that the sickness did indeed disappear once they were married?? Lol. I mean, there's just got to be at least one fragment of the story that somehow makes sense... right??🤔🤷♀️🤦♀️ It's just such a (seemingly?) bizarre conclusion to have arrived at, even in that pre-Victorian era . Btw, I'm STILL clinching my you-know-whats, at the thought of having some gross old man putting LEECHES down there 😱. Ohmagawd. You know what? We ladies are doing pretty alright these days, aren't we? I'm def feeling the phrase "problems of privilege " right about now, fr😬. Society could still use some ironing out, but at least women have rights today. Most of all, dr's don't use leeches as a treatment anymore, thank God! 🤭😂
Thank you so much for watching and for your comment! ♥😊 I'm so happy when the mysterious algorithm works haha And that's a great question, and I really should have explored it more in the video. So, because this diagnosis wouldn't really apply to a married woman, you could say they were 'cured' after marriage in the sense that they weren't said to be suffering from it anymore... BUT if they were indeed poorly, they might be diagnosed with something else later, and that varied a lot throughout time, but things such as melancholia, hysteria, suffocation of the womb, dyspepsia, 'wind' in the womb, or, later, 'nervous' dispositions. Plus things like anaemia or malnutrition. Lots of things might 'solve themselves' - if the periods were irregular because the girls were still young, they would probably eventually become regular. In any case, I agree with you - we still have a long way to go as a society, but we have come far, too! ♥
@juliamartinshistory thank you so much for taking your time to delve into it a bit further for me. That all totally makes so much sense to be now (like, "Oh duh🤦♀️! " Lol).
Hahaha I wonder about it, too! I have no idea though. We got him from a shelter nearly a decade ago and they had no details to share, unfortunately. But yes, he is undoubtedly a star!
Great video to follow, thanks! Thinking of the "Backfisch" phenomenon in the 1950s also not ideal times for (cis)women living in various EurAsian Patriarchal cultures -thanks again for helping to understand where we come from culturally
Thank you, it's so lovely to hear that you enjoyed the video. And that's such an interesting comparison! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
All those symptoms sound like viscovagal disautonomia to me. Also, if they had endometriosis (often co-morbid), pregnancy can cause it to go into remission for a time.
Interesting. I remember when I had my first real boyfriend at age 16, my first kiss, I was ready to marry him. If our parents had arranged it, I would have been happy about it, taken his family name and everything. It felt like the natural progression. How naive I was. But that's how things would have been once upon a time. How despairing I was when he dumped me. World shattered.
@@juliamartinshistory Well, I was very innocent, and my innocence was shattered by that experience. I went into mourning after, and loosened my boundaries to the point where I no longer had a self. I gave up all my self respect and got into drugs and bad boys and became anorexic. A terrible couple of years. My Dad accused me of thinking I knew everything. It was just that I knew different things from him. He was 40 years older than me. I really didn't think that that seemingly sweet boy I loved, that my parents also liked, was really so cold and heartless inside, and viewed me as a means to an end. And when he didn't get what he wanted, he moved on to try with someone else. Completely heartless. I connected with him as an adult to see if he'd figured it out, and he was still just as arrogant and heartless. He had no idea how awful he'd been. This is a guy who had his first child in the first year out of high school, unmarried. Girls need their Dads so much to guide and support them, tell them they are smart and beautiful and a treasure, and that only the very best are good enough for them.
@brightphoebus That sounds terribly difficult, I can't imagine what you went through. I completely agree with you, parents have a big role to play, and I'm so sorry you went through such heartbreak, it sounds really tough. Especially at such a vulnerable age. I do hope you're doing better now. ♥
Since green and blue have been used interchangeably in some part of the history, is the word origin maybe derived by the actually 'blue' complexion in these 'fragile' (meaning light skinned) girls?
Brilhante esse vídeo! A enorme variedade de sintomas, que além de tudo vão mudando de foco com o passar do tempo, só demonstra a extrema necessidade da sociedade patriarcal controlar quem deixa de ser uma criança passiva para começar a se desenvolver rumo a de tornar esse ser perigoso, uma mulher potencialmente autônoma ! Quando a sociedade necessita, para sobreviver, que a mulher passe a integrar o espaço público, a doença verde desaparece.... Será? Aqui no Brasil ainda se diz às meninas que se queixam de qualquer dor que esperem, pois "quando casar sara"... recomendo também conhecer a letra da música de Luiz Gonzaga " Ela só pensa em namorar", que tem até o pai consultando o médico!
Não poderia concordar mais. E é verdade que, embora esse diagnóstico não existindo mais, permanece essa ansiedade na cultura popular... Obrigada por assistir e pelo comentário! ♥
I was thinking it might’ve been likely most often a combination of iron deficiency anemia combined with a few other common co morbidities. Iron deficiency anemia is common in young women and pregnancy stopping the period might make you look like you’re getting better for a while to Hypocretys observations? Low blood pressure is something that can turn my skin a pale sickly green shade at times even if I’m taking iron supplements and poor circulation can cause pooling of blood in the feet and swelling ankles and low blood pressure is also often correlated with headaches and there’s even one particular type of headache I can’t remember the name of that actually causes the exact described swelling of the forehead and eyes, although that same symptom may also be caused by an allergic reaction or several other conditions. Young women often have inconsistent cycle length as their periods are first starting but the lack of periods after menarche could also be explained by pcos as well as all the other potential causes mentioned in the video like over exercise and under eating.
@@juliamartinshistory I started writing this comment while I was still in the middle of watching the video as is my habit, usually because I thought of something I thought might be relevant and didn’t want to forget what I wanted to say, I added on to my thoughts as more things came to mind as I watched the rest of the video and after I finished watching the video I edited the whole comment. The video was very interesting and I really liked it. I think it was probably recommended for me because I had been watching some medical mystery videos recently about published case studies where a doctor was explaining how some seemingly unrelated symptoms combined helped the doctors in that case to narrow down the list of possible diagnoses to determine the disease
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! And I know what you mean, I'm the same when I'm watching something about medicine and trying to figure out what it can be... I thought your comment was really interesting. It just goes to show how there would have been lots of possible explanations for something like this! :)
That's interesting! I confess that I know very little about this because of my linguistic limitations when reading primary sources, so I'm not sure if it was ever a popular diagnosis among Norwegian doctors!
Look at the cure. The cure was sex and pregnancy. That tells me two things: one when I'm going through a dopamine downturn because of a lack of sex I get pale and "heavy of limb and body" too. Sexual addiction is a real thing. So it could be a lack of sexual activity, probably after a period of illicit sexual activity. Also, if immediate marriage is the remedy, it's possible that it was known that it often was caused by premarital sexual activity and that the girl may already be pregnant (lack of menstruation), and should be married immediately to explain it away before she became known as a harlot.
That is possible. But I think it's important to keep in mind that while this 'treatment' was recommended, it would be a stretch to call it a 'cure' in most cases.
I believe this disorder was the result of the onset of menses while the father had became too old to go hunting frequently, the lack of venison on the table (only chicken and fish on the table) caused iron poor anemia. Iron rich meat was provided for nuns by the nunnery. Modern women have plenty of iron rich beef, thank you McDonald's. Ron W4BIN
I think that's very likely for several of these girls. It really depends on the case though, as so many different conditions seem to have been lumped together under the same umbrella diagnosis!
My daughter would agree with you and what he said the guy there said I could not remember his name even though you just said it 5 seconds ago it should flow like a sacrifice yeah that's a pretty good way of describing how her menstruation is.
Periods are commonly few and far between during the beginning years of menstruation. Scares me to imagine people potentially marrying off pubescent girls because of this
The idea of marriage as soon as possible is rather chilling. Young men may be continuing their education or their apprenticeships, and might not be financially ready to enter marriage. There usually was no pressure on them to marry, and they could sow their wild oats and take their time choosing a wife. Would parents pushing their daughters to marry settle? I shudder to think that these young girls may be given to older husbands they were not attracted to. In reading about Chlorosis, it stated that girls would lived in the country were immune to the disease. I noticed you didn't mention that - I wonder if my source was incorrect.
It is a very chilling idea, I agree! Unfortunately, marrying without attraction, or even affection, was very common. And you're right, some people did believe that those in the countryside wouldn't suffer from chlorosis as often, because of the healthier lifestyle, exercise, fresh air etc. But not everyone agreed. Plus there's the question of class as well, especially comparing wealthier city girls to poorer ones in the countryside. In any case, I agree with you, it was a diagnosis that could very easily be manipulated in awful ways! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
Color analysis of food that is destined for less developed parts of the world is performed with different light. Rather than the bright blueish light used to film the video, we use a less intense red/yellow light that simulates light emitted from a fireplace or candle. Blood veins near the surface of the skin look blue in 5K light but might look green in the 2K candlelight used during this time period. 🔵+🟡=💚
I wonder...could these young women have been the introverts, and young women on the spectrum? Neither would do well, when always knowing that they are watched, never have any real privacy, and have to keep their 'odd' thoughts to themselves, or they won't be able to get married. Which is exactly what happened, during this extended period of maidenhood. If you didn't get married, it would never end. But you had to pick the right man, or it would just continue. And who wants to marry someone who doesn't know who you really are, because you've been wearing a mask? See what I mean? (I'm neurodivergent, lol)
That's such an interesting take. I agree with you that young women who didn't 'fit the mould' would have been particularly vulnerable, unfortunately. Thank you for your insightful comment :)
Yeah, I get what you mean. I'm autistic and bisexual. I probably would have been diagnosed with green sickness if I was born two centuries previous. I didn't get my period until I was 16 because I was thin and malnourished because I was a picky eater because I'm autistic, and I was in love with my science teacher Mrs. Matthews but that's a socially unacceptable crush, so I would languish in bed, daydreaming about her and reading Victorian novels (my favourite being The Time Machine by H.G. Wells) and all that lying in bed made me pale and weak. And I got bullied for "talking weird," so why try to socialize, hence even more staying in my room. So there you have our symptoms: no period, pale, thin and weak, quiet and lovesick. All because I'm autistic and queer. So the answer to my ailment wasn't to get married. It was to encourage me to get an outdoor hobby where I could get some sun and meet people, and work up an appetite through physical activity. Lol. One summer my parents sent me to work on a farm. That turned out not to be my thing, but it did make me more robust.
To be clear, there was nothing truly wrong with me besides probably should have been taking a multivitamin. The rest are just my natural state of being.
@obiwan-in-a-pudding2909 Thank you so much for sharing. I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds terribly difficult. And I agree with you, those symptoms could have been understood very differently in the past. It's a reminder of how we should embrace human diversity instead of trying to fit everyone in the same tiny box! I'm glad you're doing better now. And may I just say that I also love The Time Machine, it's such a good book! :)
The description of blood needing to flow like a sacrificial victim makes me laugh at all those theories that were popular around the internet a few years ago that until Smart Modern People invented sanitary pads, women just freebled. Like, I'm sure some did! But nobody is bleeding that much all over one of their few sets of undergarments and clothes lol.
Hahaha I know! I agree with you - sure, some did. And it does depend on the culture, time and place etc. But there were lots of ways women dealt with menstruation. Still, I think the image of a sacrificial victim to describe menstruation is one of the funniest things I've read in a while
Thank you! And no, that's probably a myth. Having said that, midwives could sometimes resort to this kind of 'massage', but it's unlikely that it was very common. Definitely an interesting idea for a future video though! ;)
@@juliamartinshistory I'd love to see a video about this. I've heard mention of one questionable source describing this 'treatment,' and in the present day it grew into a popular myth.
I was in a small town in northern Montana and in their local museum there were all sorts of things from clothing to tools to objects from old dentist and doctor offices. One was an electric device and I asked the elderly lady who was the docent- what is that for? She told me it was for assisting married ladies to relax, help their nervous complaints. 😂 It was a big moneymaker for the doctor. Once a week was ideal.
When you talk about the gender element in medicine having to do with culture the first thing that comes to my mind as a man is that whenever anything is wrong they blame smoking and drinking and when I tell them that I don't do either they don't believe me because I'm a man and they don't have any other explanation because they don't know they have just discovered that by blaming smoking and drinking they can get away with not knowing.
@@juliamartinshistory point is.. trust the science? what science? the science of control? because that is what modern medicine is... the same as it was.. not just control of women.. control of everyone .
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It very much sounds like something midwives and doctors said to fathers when they knew the girl was pregnant out of marriage. Hurrying to get her married to save her "health" could avoid a lot of embarrassment or even prevent the girl from being able married.
I agree with you, that's entirely possible in some cases. Thank you for your comment :)
My thought also.
And also using abortificants to treat the 'illness'
Yea I would say up to the idk 1960-70's being born out of wedlock and being called a Bastard child Was really hurtful And it meant something. Unlike today
@@juliamartinshistoryAlso I felt like there was potentially soooo much overt dog-whistling going on, at least in certain classes / contexts in controlled male spaces. (Ie for pregnant, sexual, queer, non conforming or otherly “problematic” “girls”) That is in terms of fathers writing to doctors for diagnosis etc. The initial letter almost sounds like a fake account fabricated in writing for an infomercial. It’s a very convenient way to have a “official permission slip” to deal with any form of deviance . I mean this in the sense of “gentlemen’s language” / regulated spaces of power akin to something like getting a medical cannabis pass from a doctor in progressive states where cannabis hasn’t been legalized. “Hey doc I have anxiety” “oh here’s your pass” - Socio-economic free will problem solved…I think we miss a tremendous amount of things like this historically due to the simple lack of recorded context & who controlled that narrative… if we don’t even have standard white-wash recipes bc it was so “common knowledge”… it’s probably the kind of thing ppl would roll their eyes abt now if they heard us discussing it with so much citation / debate at hand. Medical patriarchal and oppressive narratives have a way of sanitizing things in a way that sticks in the records despite seeming obviously false/formality in the present.
I grew up I'm a culture much like this and where women who had sex outside of marriage were treated by their fathers (my father as evidenced by the way he treated my sisters when they lost theirs) as if they would be better dead than impure. I was in my mid 20s by the time I met my husband and I didn't know about green sickness, but I was convinced that all my ailments, of which I had many, were because I desired marriage so much and didn't have it. About a year after getting married, all my ailments that the doctors could never explain went away.
Stress. It was stress. Stress of being in that culture, stress of being under my father's authority at 24, stress of everything. My husband is the man of my dreams, and we live FAR away from my parents, and I've never been happier. I've been "cured" for 2 years now.
Oh dear, that must have been incredibly difficult. I can't imagine what you and your sisters went through, I'm so sorry. It's incredible what stress and living in a hostile environment can do to the body. I'm glad to hear that you're doing better now! ♥
I was very depressed in my teenage years and in a similar fashion, that as been cured in my older years being married and having good financial standing. Whenever I visit my childhood home more than 12 hours, I can feel darkness come over my mood. The energy of my parents and the disorganized dusty home and property pull me down quickly. I’m so glad I don’t live there anymore!
That sounds really tough. I'm glad you were able to leave and that you are doing better now. Take care of yourself! ♥
@@mylesgray3470 I have literally the same experience when I go back home. One thing I keep thinking of is how when I'm with my husband, several tens of hours drive away from my family, I can grow my nails out long and beautiful in a way I was never able to before, but the moment I'm back in that same area as my family, I quickly bite them down without even realizing it and it takes months for me to recover enough to grow them out. I'm so glad you're in a better place now. I hope for nothing but the best for you and your life
Yeah, I was thinking about how it def sounded like you were experiencing some type of psychosomatic response, and from what you said about the immense stress you were feeling, it sounds like you were indeed. I'm so glad you were able to free yourself from what sounds like a harrowing experience and your life dramatically improved. So often, that dire need to escape a toxic family is so pressing, that driven by pure impulse, rather than logic (or love in your case😉) it results in a train wreck of regrettable consequences that can unfortunately take decades to disentangle ourselves from, so you have been truly blessed in your experience🥰 ... (I might have had some experience with that darker side aforementioned 🫣... But hey, it may have taken decades, but today I, too can honestly say I'm finally free😊).
She sounds like she might be anemic. Pregnancy is the last thing they should consider until the anemia is dealt with. It's pretty common in girls after puberty.
You're right, and that's one of the main contemporary diagnoses that she might have received. Thank you for watching :)
The anemia and amenorrhea could have been caused by lead poisoning.
Definitely a possibility
First thing I thought too.
Anemia causes all kinds of diseases and ailments, but also stress at the same time would worsen everything, yikes poor girl 😬
Lol
My medical history:
X will get better when puberty hits
-when puberty is finished
-when hormones even out
-once uterus adapts to periods
-when you go on the pill
-go off the pill
-get pregnant
-are pregnant
-finish being pregnant
- finish being postpartum
-finish breastfeeding
-finish menopause
-finish postmenopause
-add hrt therapy
-finish hrt therapy
I’m waiting for my doctor to suggest that at 65 my arthritis is somehow related to my long defunct uterus.
Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through this. It must be so frustrating. How awful it must be to be told that you're always a step away from feeling better... I hope you find a doctor soon who can actually help you! ♥
No, I was just illustrating how women’s symptoms are always somehow related to our reproductive bits. All true though 😁
I know, it's infuriating! I'm glad you're doing ok though. 😊
Oh my goodness, I think you may need a second opinion. Or a new doctor.....
I have to suggest you look into ATI sensitivity- similar symptoms and same triggers as celiac. Some of my female ancestors became crippled from mysterious arthritis, I almost did too, till I sniffed out that it was wheat/cereal grains causing it. A note; vinegar from grains can trigger it, unlike celiac. Really sad that what took my great grandmother was the same plant being harvested in her backyard, and would have been cured by simply not eating it.
I am not saying what you have is an ATI sensitivity, but it is something novel to look at.
When I was younger, there was a story of a small group of women who decided to go one step further than vegetarianism, and went straight to eating dirt. They found some that they particularly liked. Their skins started turning green, which they took to mean that they were starting to develop some chlorophyll. Turned out though, that the dirt they liked contained copper. But for a while there, they thought they were on to some basic principle. Funny how attitudes develops and change
OMG, what a story! How horrendous... It sounds like it would make a great novel/film, though!
Actually, anemic people sometimes get the urge to eat dirt/clay because it contains iron!
Did they have Pica?
I am imagining all kinds of scenarios where different parties have a motivated reason for diagnosing green sickness. From a young woman who is pregnant, or just in love, to a father who wants to advertise his weak and sickly daughter as extra-attractive, to a doctor who wants an easy answer to a case he can't figure out. I also wonder if it's possible that sometimes dads were just totally clueless about their daughter's use of cosmetics and that played into the whole "green" part? Maybe especially with leaded cosmetics? Idk. Very interesting!
I think it's definitely possible that there were many clueless dads mixed in these stories! And I agree with you, it's easy to imagine lots of different scenarios based on the premise of green sickness, right? It would definitely make for a lovely historical novel... ;)
Iron deficiency based anemia makes sense especially considering the pica. If these girls indeed deprived themselves of food it would explain how they got the deficiency. Marriage indeed might have been a cure if it resulted in the girls eating properly instead of starving themselves.
Very true. What a depressing thought!
It's the other way round - anemia makes you not want to eat much because you feel so sick.
As a woman i can confirm i feel very unwell without a man.
Lol to each their own, I guess! ;)
I second her comment.
@@juliamartinshistory Still single, eh? :)
Hahaha
I'm the opposite. I feel awful WITH a man. Or at woman. Or anyone else. I'm 47, I look after my mom, and I'm happy as a clam.
Anytime a girl or woman had a health problem, or even an emotional reaction, the patriarchal society automatically assumed it was related to having a uterus. It's amazing women have survived this long in the Patriarchy.
I couldn't agree more...!
I was in grad school, about to finish my Masters in Biochem, when one evening I went to the ER with horrible abdominal pain. The doctor asked if I could be pregnant -of course, always the first question of ANY doctor visit. I told her- HER-- that I was not, and she just kept poking my belly, and telling me, well, you know, the uterus is right here. I told her, yes, and there are other structures there as well, and I happen to know what causes pregnancy, and since my husband, who was in the Navy, had been at sea for several months, pregnancy, if present, would have been quite evident.
How frustrating that must have been, especially coming from a female doctor...!
@@juliamartinshistory In the nearly thirty five years since that happened, I've often wondered about that doctor. It was a teaching hospital, and she was being trained in a very patriarchal system. I often wonder how her career progressed in the following years.
@joanlaws9975 I do hope that she's improved, for the sake of her patients...
Very interesting video. I wanted to add that women are more likely to be diagnosed with autoimmune disorders, and the symptoms of a lot of those diseases really can improve for the duration of pregnancy, so that ‘cure’ isn’t all that far-fetched!
That's such a good point, thank you!
That’s because the immune system is suppressed somewhat during pregnancy, presumably so that the fetus is not rejected.
That thought hit me while watching. I was diagnosed with MCTD a month before I turned 25 but had mystery symptoms before then.
Tired and muscle weakness,too much sun making it worse which leads to the paleness, malar rashes.... digestive issues and food sensitivities....
Course ,not all of these girls had one, but I could see some of them possibly having those issues...reminds me how many say my greatest great grandmother was a bit of a "hypochondriac" and always sickly or sitting a lot.... And I. Think later how she had a daughter who developed lupus...another with psoriasis...and so on to grandkids and great grandkids etc.
Oh I'm sorry to hear that! I hope you're doing better now. I tend to agree with you, there's a lot of overlap with many of these conditions. With so many symptoms, lots of different diagnoses would be possible depending on each case. Anyway, I hope you're doing ok! ♥
@@juliamartinshistory
Much better these days, thankfully I have modern medicine instead of a prescription to marry!
This excellent video reminded me of the situation regarding treatment for the really horrible disease of endometriosis.
In the mid-20th Century, as I understand the story, the recommendation officially supported by the medical authorities in at least a few countries was to tell women to go away and have a baby, that childbirth would (probably/possibly) end the bleeding, tissue damage, and pain. This, however, wasn't the case at all, though some women might get relief for a few months or years during pregnancy and after childbirth. Also, of course, bringing a child into the world whose main purpose in life is to be sort of like a dose of aspirin isn't the most ethical thing in the world. And then there's the whole issue of locking women into a gender role they might not have chosen.
In recent years, of course, physicians' national associations in various countries have deprecated and condemned the idea of a pregnancy cure for endo. Even today, however, doctors frequently give this same outdated advice to women with endometriosis -- I've heard this about the US & Australia, but probably there are other countries where this misguided practice still continues.
That is such an incredible parallel. I completely agree with you, not only is it a chilling concept, marrying and having children 'for your health', but the idea of having a child as a 'treatment' is horrific when you consider the child as well. We truly need to do better. Thank you for watching and for your thoughtful comment! :)
My cousin was told this.
That is so heartbreaking, I'm sorry to hear it. Doctors must do better!
I disagree, we are biological organisms. The constant view that "muh patriarchy" onto anything or everything is disingenuous. The lack of positive diagnosis was more to do with a general lack of understanding of health.
I have an ex and she had endometriosis and it went away after her first..
The mother of my children had fibroids and that too was resolved after our first child.
When you look into herbal medicine of the past it is obvious that some, but not all, are based on ignorance and quackery
I was a 'treatment' baby. Let me tell you, it doesn't do good for one's mental health to know that you're only here because your mom had problems and the doctor told her she needs to give birth.
Thank you for this presentation. I am a male at 73 of age who was almost killed by my mother after I was born and under care at home. She tried to stab me and my father who was an Army medic in WW II and was used to dealing psychiatric cases.
She had graduated from Bryn Mawr college with a degree in nuclear physic then worked a Mayo Clinic for 18 months making Radon seeds in gold tubes for cancer treatment experiments. This before waldo gear was designed so all work was done using mirrors with lead blocks for body and head protection with only the arms and hands exposed. She took 29 Radiation Absorbed Doses or RAD in the 18 months.
She took her master's degree in Nuclear Physics at Northwestern University. During that period, she married my dad. She did have electroshock therapy which worked. I was in the care for much of that period by mom's nanny Tin Tin who help raise her and her 3 sister one who died at age 12 of spinal meningitis possibly from an insect bite. Tin Tin was from Ireland and worked for the family from sometime just after WW I to the time she died around the mid 1960's.
Thank you for your comment, I'm glad you found the video interesting. And thank you for sharing your story. It must have been a difficult time in all of your lives. I'm so sorry you went through all of that, it must have been so harsh. I do hope you're doing well today, and I'm glad you had people to help you and support you when you were younger. :)
I always wondered why the Hardwicke marriage act (The first government act setting out the age at which people could get married in the UK -or at least England and Wales-) set the age at which someone didn't need parental consent to get married at 21, I thought it was to stop rich heiresses from running away with fortune seeking impoverished soldiers to Gretna Green in Scotland. But it was more so the wealthy families of London didn't have drawing rooms full of 'exceedingly wilted' debuted daughters to deal with
What a depressing thought! (Having said that, 'exceedingly wilted' would be a fantastic name for memoir, wouldn't it?! I'll keep it in mind...) Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment ;)
Lydia Bennet😂
despite voting on the name poll, i totally forgot this was coming. the best surprise!! absolutely fascinating thank you! would love to see a video on hysteria!
Haha thank you! ♥ I'll add hysteria to the list, then! ;)
Funny how young nuns seem to have been immune.
Not always! Sometimes menstruation would be induced in them if they weren't getting their periods, sometimes even 'vicarious menstruation'!
@@juliamartinshistoryWhat's vicarious menstruation?
It's the idea that period blood could be expelled from the body by other means, whether unprovoked, like a nosebleed, or through bloodletting, from the ankle, for instance. Many writers and medical professionals believed that to be possible, weird as it may sound haha
I think the letter is after the Reformation in England? Nun was not really an option there at that time. I know there are Anglican nuns but not really as many as before the Reformation.
“Induced menstruation” fills me with dread. I wonder if stigmata counted 🤔 haha
I am 76. When’s i was young, I broke my arm and that was called a green stick fracture. My thoughts are that green was a word used to mean young and/or inexperienced. Just a thought.
Interesting! I thought it meant that the bone had 'only' cracked, like a splintered tree branch. In any case, it's so interesting to see how comparisons with the colour green are everywhere in medicine!
@@juliamartinshistory thanks for replying ! Yes, it meant that also!
Green=Newbie. Makes sense.
It meant it was not a clean complete break. Like the difference between breaking an old dried stick a clean break in two and a green stick which is more flexible and breaks out on one side while still connected on the opposite side.
What where'sWaldo said but you're not wrong, we call a young horse needing more training "green" after all
Fascinating video! It isn’t lost on me that medical gaslighting and misogyny are issues for women to this day.
Thank you so much, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. And yes, I couldn't agree more, sadly...!
Right on.
Gaslighting ? Hate for Woman ? All that, because sex out for marriage and a child out of marriage ... do you even have an inkling of an idea what an unwed and unprotected woman went through in the 1500s ?
Please give an example. So that I may avoid being a part of the medical gaslighting you speak of.
Where is the misogyny? There are numerous health centres and hospital departments that cater exclusively to female patients, but there are no equivalent facilities for male patients, despite men having a shorter lifespan. Breast cancer receives significantly more funding than testicular cancer, even though they are equally likely to occur. Additionally, female patients are often provided with more privacy in hospitals compared to male patients.
At the symptoms list you gave at the start, my first thought was iron deficiency anemia. Pale, short of breath, but most significantly, wanting to eat non-food items.
I have chronic anemia and the first sign I am getting a low on iron is when I get a drink and feel an absolute need to eat the ice cubes. At first I thought I just enjoyed eating ice cubes, but now I know whenI notice it happening I need to get to a doctor.
Your video offered a lot of great explanations which really opened my eyes to how many diseases can present so similary. Thank you for being so informative!
Thank you for your comment, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. I'm sorry to hear about your anaemia, I hope you can manage it well enough to feel ok! What you mentioned about the ice is so interesting, thank you for sharing. :)
I'm always anemic too. I don't have a freezer so no ice cubes, but I feel like eating and drinking cold and sugary stuff when it gets bad. The ice cubes thing is well known to occur with anemia.
The video I watched just before you was about changes in linguistic "rules" over centuries, so it made it easier for me to understand your warning to not project Hypochromic Anemia backwards to Green Sickness diagnoses from the 17th century. Also, the way that medicine can be socially constructed (even today!) is so fascinating but also incredibly scary
I couldn't agree more... It's super interesting but definitely scary how ideas like these can be constructed! (And that video sounds great - it's so hard not to rely on contemporary meanings to understand the past!) Thank you for your comment :)
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I like how you stayed relatively neutral throughout the lesson, yet couldn’t help adding a few ‘yikes!’ here and there…
Hahaha it couldn't be helped at times! And thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video :)
Based on the title, I had never heard about this. Thanks for the video in advance as it seems interesting and your videos never disappoint! 🥰
Thank you, that's so kind of you. It's definitely something that I was worried about... It's a weird and interesting bit of history, but because it's so unknown I wasn't sure if people would want to watch the video!
@@juliamartinshistoryI can't speak for others but anything related to women's history is always interesting to me (although it often upsets me... I'm so thankful I was born in this time period)
@anthropomorphicpeanut6160 Same here...!
So much to say about this video! I dare to say - once again - my favorite video so far! I would love videos on every topic you mentioned. Mostly, I'm curious about nutrition advice in the early modern period based on sex-gender... What a girl on her period or a pregnant woman would have to eat etc. Also, how was the menospause understood back then?
Pancake, as always, the perfect co-host.
It really gives us the creeps reading these very much older men talking in such condescending and sexualizing way about this 13 year-old girls...
Funny to notice how much hysteria has been fetichised, filmed, photographed, painted, written about while green sickness has not. Any ideia why that would be? Hysteria seems ever present in the discourse, while green sickness seemed to vanish altogether, we don't have popular cultural narratives about it.
Thank you so much, it's so great to hear that you enjoyed the video! ♥
I agree with you, both diet and gender/sex and the history of menopause are interesting ideas to explore. And yes, the physicians' comments are beyond creepy...
About popular representations of green sickness today, compared to hysteria, that's a good question. I think the main difference is that Charcot literally made a spectacle of hysteria and invited artists to his hospital, giving them pretty unlimited access to his patients and also holding his public demonstrations. Plus it was the time of the boom of photography. And his personal fame was only superseded by Freud, who watched the demonstrations and popularised hysteria even further, even as he moved on from focusing on it. This was also the time when the novel was establishing itself as one of the most popular media to tell stories and it was particularly good at exploring people's inner lives, and so a string of 'hysterics' could be depicted, like Mme Bovary. Plus, it was a useful category to use against first-wave feminism (if only it had stopped there...). Anyway, I think there are many different reasons why hysteria has survived in popular culture and green sickness didn't, and it's definitely something to explore in the future! ♥
Would LOVE a video from you discussing women's health ala The Yellow Wallpaper!
Thank you! It's very much something I plan on doing soon...! ♥
That quote from Jane Sharp is fascinating (15:10).
It seems as though the distinction between women and maids was being made on the basis that some women migh fall pregnant, suffer from hyperemesis or whatever, spontaneously miscarry -- early enough in the pregnancy that it just seems like a heavy period, or later, but the women hid the specifics out of fear/shame -- and then "go back to normal."
You can see how the patriarchy hampered medical advancement in both a top-down and a bottom-up way.
Yes, I agree... And there was definitely a 'window of opportunity' until quickening (foetal movement) had been established.
@@juliamartinshistory Ah, yes, "quickening." That thing that pro-lifers pretend was never the Christian definition of the start of life.
@Alan_Duval Thomas Aquinas wouldn't be pleased...
Love it! More on women’s deaseses. Maybe a bit about Trota of Salerno and the female doctors / medics of the Middle Ages, like Rebecca Guarna, Abela and the like?
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! ♥ And yes, that's a great suggestion. It's on my list! :)
The 'green-sickness' (aka chlorosis), was likely not a single disease entity, but a name applied to at least two distinct conditions affecting young females in the past. The first ('chloro-anaemia') was a form of hypochromic anaemia possibly associated with gastric ulceration and poor diet. This form predominated in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. The second ('chloro-anorexia') was a disorder of psychogenic origin resembling, but not identical to, anorexia nervosa. The latter form predominated in earlier periods but also occurred throughout the nineteenth century; it was also known as 'the virgin's disease' or 'febris amatoria'. The 'green' of 'green-sickness' may originally have indicated innocence rather than a green colour of the sk
You're right, and depending on the case it was a label that could cover several other issues, too. Thank you for your comment :)
I’m looking forward to breaking out the “historically, most men don’t menstruate” at my next dinner party.
Haha I agree that I could have phrased that better...!
*no man
Thank you for this video. This is a diagnosis of which I have never heard. It seems also that amenorrhea, as you noted , may be a deficiency disease . In a time of famine this could certainly occur. And , being that fertile productive women would likely be better fed during famine it could be noted as a disease of poverty and the least marriageable. This would also apply to “ green sickness” in Shakespeare fish eating lads.
Yes, I think you're right. And it's a condition that has been largely forgotten today, but for centuries it was a fairly common diagnosis! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video, thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
Excellent video, very informative. Also bonus kitty content. How paitent your cat is ❤
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed it! And yes, Pancake is the most patient (if needy) cat I've ever seen haha ♥
@@juliamartinshistory Pancake? That is the most adorable cat name ever! I think I need to check in with this channel for more Pancake content ❤️
Haha, thanks! And yes, Pancake does tend to feature in most videos... I think he's a reluctant star! ♥ :)
The whole time I was watching your video, I was thinking about Bridgerton and the social rules to protect the virginity of women and keep the men at bay.
Yes!!! It's shocking how these ideas about virginity/purity for women have adapted and survived throughout the centuries.
At 20:44, reminds me of the equally incredibly talented Hildegard von Blingen, Canadian TH-camr, singer, songwriter, musician and artist. Love everything she posts!
OMG I had never heard of this artist, but I'm listening now and her work is fantastic! Thank you so much for the recommendation! ♥
Júlia, I loved this video, not only for the extremely interesting and enlightening content but for the exquisite presentation… beautiful to watch! and I am particularly interested in the history of medicine, because as you said, first of all it makes us aware of the social and psychological context of the times. congratulations and a kiss!
Thank you so much, that's so wonderful to hear! ♥ I really appreciate it. Thank you for watching :)
that is fascinating
one of the best reditions of what happened at these times
also intersting how it carried on
Thank you, I'm so glad you found the video interesting. :) I agree, it's incredible how long many of these beliefs lasted...
This is fascinating! I'd heard of this before, but always in relation to it most likely being anemia and/or just people obsessed with marrying off young girls. This gave ma y other explanations or idea that really show how the medical establishment and women have errrrrr ....had an interesting relationship throu the years 😅
I really need videos on the menstruating men now....,like yesterday.
Haha 'interesting' definitely sums it up!
About menstruating men, I'll definitely make a video on it soon, though I'm a bit apprehensive about YT guidelines... (hint: expect lots of talk about antisemitism, misogyny, and hemorrhoids...!) Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment :)
Very solemn and august looking cat under the orchids. Good medical historical presentation. I am glad for modern medical literature.
Thank you - and me too...! Pancake sends you his best regards (not a very solemn name for a cat, I'm afraid haha)
@@juliamartinshistory I love his name Pancake and imagine that that may be another story. and the adorable way that he seeks and takes over the warm zones on your chair. I had to have two office chairs some years ago, because if i got up from a chair i was warming , a cat would invoke the divine right of cats and take it over so i did not want to move him. I also learned to take naps when my lap was being occupied. I am always interested in the evolution of thought in our species as we try to keep up with the paradigm shifts and shifts of framing of problems.
Lack of sex causes hormonal imbalance that would very much cause "Green Sickness".
This has nothing to do with "patriarchy"... men experience the same health problems from celibacy.
A lack of Prolactin and Oxytocin negatively affect sleep and health in a profound way.
The deficiency and imbalance of Estrogen and Testosterone from celibacy negatively affects women's and men's health. (Yes, men produce estrogen and women produce testosterone.)
Men who are celibate have identical negative health problems from celibacy... i.e. "green sickness" in addition to prostate issues.
As for mental health... people who have high sex drives, celibacy will absolutely drive them crazy. (Women and men alike).
So again, it is not a "sexism" or "patriarchy" issue.
There is a reason why people who find a lover and/or get married to someone they actually like... "glow".
Their physical and mental health has improved.
I understand your point, but it is a deeply personal question and the issue is that people should have agency - if they want to have sex/get married etc, great. If not, that should be respected too.
@@juliamartinshistory I highly doubt that as many women were being forced to marry against their will as feminists claim. But shotgun weddings certainly did exist to force men to take responsibility for the children they fathered.... and were the most common form of forced marriage.
Things have greatly improved for both men and women in regards to sex. We certainly should be grateful for that.
That being said, celibacy causes health problems, so people choosing to be celibate should know the risks.
I did note that the silly treatment given includes eating raisens every day and that is a nice source of iron. So it would help with anemia.
How interesting, I hadn't thought of that! Thank you.
Ballet helps, eat little more and “pushing” down the root chakra. For real - I had it and I know what I’m talking about. I think it’s called fibromyalgia myalgia these days but doctors prefer to say that they aren’t ill at all until the girls can’t walk.
There's definitely a lot of overlap between some of these cases and what we'd today call fibromyalgia. And, as someone who has loved ballet since I was 3 years old, I agree with you - ballet makes everything better! ♥
Diabetes can do it too. When my younger brother inherited diabetes appeared, he was 8y old - skin turned pale greenish, he was thin and weak. Dad was devastated looking at him and disagreed to visit doctor, fearing it came from his genes. Mom solved it but doctors asked: "Why so late, he is about to fall into coma" Survived! But I'm sure he was a virgin back then :)
I hadn't thought of that! Thank you for sharing. How scary it must have been for your family... I'm glad to hear that your brother is ok! ♥
I actually read a book on this disorder - "The Disease of Virgins: Green Sickness, Chlorosis, and the Problems of Puberty" by Helen King.
It's a fantastic book, isn't it? I love her work.
yes, please do more videos about things like nymphomania and hysteria and other strange diseases that used to exist and don't seem to anymore, or they worked out the real reason for it, its interesting to learn things like this.
I'm glad to hear that you'd find that interesting, thank you so much for your comment :)
Interestingly, in the Scottish ballad, Tam Lin, Janet is described as being "as green as onie glass", i.e., having morning sickness. Her father recognizes it as such and asks if she was with child. I assume the glass was green because of iron contaminants in the glass of the time.
That is so interesting, I didn't know this ballad. Thank you so much for sharing! :)
I wonder if the paleness was described as "green", because they were the kind of very pale where veins can be seen through the skin? Which could, maybe look more green than blue depending on skin tone.
I agree with you, it's very possible that that was a factor too.
The thin skin makes me think EDS
@EMNstar interesting, I hadn't thought of that!
That’s unfortunate. Happy the times have changed a lot! Also, what type of orchid is that? It’s gorgeous
Very true... And thank you! I'm not sure what kind of orchid it is, as it was a gift. I got it years ago from my neighbours when my daughter was born, and it's still thriving! ♥
I *need* to hear the stories about men who were thought to menstruate. I tried a search and all I got were gotcha videos from gender essentialists and the like. Ty you are awesome.
Thank you! I definitely need to make that video, it's such an interesting subject and very little discussed outside of academia! Thank you for your comment :)
Good video. Worth the watch.
Thank you! :)
Você fala com entusiasmo sobre um tema bem incomum até mesmo para os canais de história. Bom ver uma brasileira mandando bem.
Muito obrigada! Acho esse assunto incrível e fico feliz de ter conseguido passar isso no vídeo. Obrigada por assistir e pelo feedback! :)
Could have been anemia caused by malnutrition. In many cultures the best part of the meal was kept for the men in the household aka meat. After marriage she would have access to the good pieces because she would start preparing meat for her husband. Before marriage she is at the end of the food chain, unlike her mother who can secretly snack on meat while cooking it.
That's very true. Thank you for your comment! ♥
Would you do a video on the hymen? I'm almost 40 and to be honest I'm still utterly confused about how real or not real the hymen is.
What a fabulous idea. There's lots to be said, especially about the jury of matrons, judging virginity, and faking it! Thank you for the suggestion :)
They vary a lot in thickness and in other ways as well. So the experience varies.
How “real” it is?
I just cannot get over the magnificence of that cat! The topic of the video is very interesting and very well presented, of course. 😊
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! 😊 And Pancake would agree with you, he likes to belive he's a lord, or so it seems... I wish we knew what his breed was, but when we adopted him no one could tell us much!
@@juliamartinshistory Lord Pancake’s face and body conformation remind me of the TH-cam-famous “Mr Vivo” - if someone trimmed his fur short. 😊
I just googled him, what a beautiful cat! I do love Pancake, but he looks like Mr Vivo's poor cousin hahaha
@@juliamartinshistory hahaha! Nah, not his “poor” cousin - I’d say his more laidback, less maintenance, more approachable cousin.
@Bethsabee_Sheba_Newrose haha that's a very generous rephrasing, Pancake and I thank you! ♥ 😺
Symptoms sound like something like lupus
I agree, in many of these cases it could be a plausible explanation.
"I care, milady. I wouldst heal thee, all night long." - 15th century pickup line.
Hahaha I'm not sure it would have worked...
Oh my, I just discovered this channel (now subscribed😉), so this video was my first of yours (the algorithm is actually working for me today lol😜), and good lord, I'm super impressed🤩 so far. Humanity's history can be pretty wild sometimes, can't it? Lol. Oh geez😂...
Pretty soon after starting to watch this, I found myself pondering something that I was certain would be answered by the end, but... idk if you did go into it and I somehow missed it or what, but I didn't hear the answer like I was hoping for🤷♀️.
Soooooo... I'm curious if you found anywhere in your research ... 🫣 ok I honestly feel silly asking, but I'm dying to know🤭... was there any actual evidence, or even pseudo-evidence for that matter, seeming to somehow confirm that the sickness did indeed disappear once they were married?? Lol. I mean, there's just got to be at least one fragment of the story that somehow makes sense... right??🤔🤷♀️🤦♀️ It's just such a (seemingly?) bizarre conclusion to have arrived at, even in that pre-Victorian era .
Btw, I'm STILL clinching my you-know-whats, at the thought of having some gross old man putting LEECHES down there 😱. Ohmagawd. You know what? We ladies are doing pretty alright these days, aren't we? I'm def feeling the phrase "problems of privilege " right about now, fr😬. Society could still use some ironing out, but at least women have rights today. Most of all, dr's don't use leeches as a treatment anymore, thank God! 🤭😂
Thank you so much for watching and for your comment! ♥😊 I'm so happy when the mysterious algorithm works haha And that's a great question, and I really should have explored it more in the video. So, because this diagnosis wouldn't really apply to a married woman, you could say they were 'cured' after marriage in the sense that they weren't said to be suffering from it anymore... BUT if they were indeed poorly, they might be diagnosed with something else later, and that varied a lot throughout time, but things such as melancholia, hysteria, suffocation of the womb, dyspepsia, 'wind' in the womb, or, later, 'nervous' dispositions. Plus things like anaemia or malnutrition. Lots of things might 'solve themselves' - if the periods were irregular because the girls were still young, they would probably eventually become regular. In any case, I agree with you - we still have a long way to go as a society, but we have come far, too! ♥
@juliamartinshistory thank you so much for taking your time to delve into it a bit further for me. That all totally makes so much sense to be now (like, "Oh duh🤦♀️! " Lol).
You're welcome! Any excuse for me to geek out talking about history...! ♥
That cat looks fascinating. I wonder if is pure breed or just an average one. He looks very relax/chill.
The cat should get an IG 😂
Hahaha I wonder about it, too! I have no idea though. We got him from a shelter nearly a decade ago and they had no details to share, unfortunately. But yes, he is undoubtedly a star!
Great video to follow, thanks! Thinking of the "Backfisch" phenomenon in the 1950s also not ideal times for (cis)women living in various EurAsian Patriarchal cultures -thanks again for helping to understand where we come from culturally
Thank you, it's so lovely to hear that you enjoyed the video. And that's such an interesting comparison! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
Great video on a fascinating, frustrating phenomenon. Thank you!
Thank you, I'm glad you found it interesting. And I couldn't agree more, it's so absurd and infuriating!
Interesting, I thought the term "green" was a reference to unseasoned like wood.
That is one of the meanings behind the colour green, for sure. Lots of different layers of symbolism make it so interesting - at least to me! ;)
All those symptoms sound like viscovagal disautonomia to me. Also, if they had endometriosis (often co-morbid), pregnancy can cause it to go into remission for a time.
That would make sense, I agree.
Your cat is so fricken cute. You can tell he loves listening to you talk 😊
Hahaha thank you! He's cute and he knows it... If he enjoys listening to me, that's a bonus for sure! 😺 ♥
Interesting. I remember when I had my first real boyfriend at age 16, my first kiss, I was ready to marry him. If our parents had arranged it, I would have been happy about it, taken his family name and everything. It felt like the natural progression. How naive I was. But that's how things would have been once upon a time. How despairing I was when he dumped me. World shattered.
We feel everything so strongly at that age, don't we?! And we think we know everything, too. 💔
@@juliamartinshistory Well, I was very innocent, and my innocence was shattered by that experience. I went into mourning after, and loosened my boundaries to the point where I no longer had a self. I gave up all my self respect and got into drugs and bad boys and became anorexic. A terrible couple of years. My Dad accused me of thinking I knew everything. It was just that I knew different things from him. He was 40 years older than me. I really didn't think that that seemingly sweet boy I loved, that my parents also liked, was really so cold and heartless inside, and viewed me as a means to an end. And when he didn't get what he wanted, he moved on to try with someone else. Completely heartless. I connected with him as an adult to see if he'd figured it out, and he was still just as arrogant and heartless. He had no idea how awful he'd been. This is a guy who had his first child in the first year out of high school, unmarried. Girls need their Dads so much to guide and support them, tell them they are smart and beautiful and a treasure, and that only the very best are good enough for them.
@brightphoebus That sounds terribly difficult, I can't imagine what you went through. I completely agree with you, parents have a big role to play, and I'm so sorry you went through such heartbreak, it sounds really tough. Especially at such a vulnerable age. I do hope you're doing better now. ♥
Since green and blue have been used interchangeably in some part of the history, is the word origin maybe derived by the actually 'blue' complexion in these 'fragile' (meaning light skinned) girls?
That is an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of it!
Great video, comment for the algo!
Thank you! Much appreciated ;)
Brilhante esse vídeo! A enorme variedade de sintomas, que além de tudo vão mudando de foco com o passar do tempo, só demonstra a extrema necessidade da sociedade patriarcal controlar quem deixa de ser uma criança passiva para começar a se desenvolver rumo a de tornar esse ser perigoso, uma mulher potencialmente autônoma ! Quando a sociedade necessita, para sobreviver, que a mulher passe a integrar o espaço público, a doença verde desaparece.... Será? Aqui no Brasil ainda se diz às meninas que se queixam de qualquer dor que esperem, pois "quando casar sara"... recomendo também conhecer a letra da música de Luiz Gonzaga " Ela só pensa em namorar", que tem até o pai consultando o médico!
Não poderia concordar mais. E é verdade que, embora esse diagnóstico não existindo mais, permanece essa ansiedade na cultura popular... Obrigada por assistir e pelo comentário! ♥
Goodness gracious I am surprised we survived that ignorance.
Indeed...!
I was thinking it might’ve been likely most often a combination of iron deficiency anemia combined with a few other common co morbidities. Iron deficiency anemia is common in young women and pregnancy stopping the period might make you look like you’re getting better for a while to Hypocretys observations? Low blood pressure is something that can turn my skin a pale sickly green shade at times even if I’m taking iron supplements and poor circulation can cause pooling of blood in the feet and swelling ankles and low blood pressure is also often correlated with headaches and there’s even one particular type of headache I can’t remember the name of that actually causes the exact described swelling of the forehead and eyes, although that same symptom may also be caused by an allergic reaction or several other conditions. Young women often have inconsistent cycle length as their periods are first starting but the lack of periods after menarche could also be explained by pcos as well as all the other potential causes mentioned in the video like over exercise and under eating.
I think that's a plausible explanation for sure. Thank you for your comment! :)
@@juliamartinshistory I started writing this comment while I was still in the middle of watching the video as is my habit, usually because I thought of something I thought might be relevant and didn’t want to forget what I wanted to say, I added on to my thoughts as more things came to mind as I watched the rest of the video and after I finished watching the video I edited the whole comment. The video was very interesting and I really liked it. I think it was probably recommended for me because I had been watching some medical mystery videos recently about published case studies where a doctor was explaining how some seemingly unrelated symptoms combined helped the doctors in that case to narrow down the list of possible diagnoses to determine the disease
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! And I know what you mean, I'm the same when I'm watching something about medicine and trying to figure out what it can be... I thought your comment was really interesting. It just goes to show how there would have been lots of possible explanations for something like this! :)
I subscribed because of the cat!
Haha I'm happy to share the spotlight! ♥ ;)
I've never heard about green sickness, here in Norway - ever!
That's interesting! I confess that I know very little about this because of my linguistic limitations when reading primary sources, so I'm not sure if it was ever a popular diagnosis among Norwegian doctors!
Look at the cure. The cure was sex and pregnancy. That tells me two things: one when I'm going through a dopamine downturn because of a lack of sex I get pale and "heavy of limb and body" too. Sexual addiction is a real thing. So it could be a lack of sexual activity, probably after a period of illicit sexual activity. Also, if immediate marriage is the remedy, it's possible that it was known that it often was caused by premarital sexual activity and that the girl may already be pregnant (lack of menstruation), and should be married immediately to explain it away before she became known as a harlot.
That is possible. But I think it's important to keep in mind that while this 'treatment' was recommended, it would be a stretch to call it a 'cure' in most cases.
Now that's my kind of cure!~
What can I say...?
Seven words that make algorithms love You.
알고리즘이 당신을 사랑하게 만드는 일곱 단어.
Thank you! 😊
thank you - have heard of it in Novels and have always wondered what it was
I'm so glad you found the video helpful ♥ :)
I believe this disorder was the result of the onset of menses while the father had became too old to go hunting frequently, the lack of venison on the table (only chicken and fish on the table) caused iron poor anemia. Iron rich meat was provided for nuns by the nunnery. Modern women have plenty of iron rich beef, thank you McDonald's. Ron W4BIN
There was definitely a link with anaemia in many cases!
What’s your status in this regard?
In which regard?
Excellent video!
Thank you! ♥
Video unavailable.
How weird, it seems to be working for me! It's not loading at all?
How weird, it seems to be working for me! It's not loading at all?
Another cause of lack of menstruation is the combination of having a ovarian cist and also being anemic as well which would make a girl lack energy.
Yes, that's a good point. Thank you for your comment :)
Could it have been a form of grief sickness
Do you mean something like melancholia?
Could it be a disease of low iron due to heavy menstrual bleeding?
Possibly, but I think that'd be unlikely in most cases as they weren't having their periods in the first place.
@@juliamartinshistory What about... PCOS?
I think that's very likely for several of these girls. It really depends on the case though, as so many different conditions seem to have been lumped together under the same umbrella diagnosis!
Fantastic. Thank you
Thanks for watching! :)
As a virgin. I've had this disease all my life.
Ha! Fair enough.
Your kitty is so adorable in the beginning of the video a d ur video it's self is very interesting thank you ❤
Haha thank you! ♥ I agree, Pancake is a star!
😊👍🏽 fabulous
Thank you! ♥
Quite often doctors in the past knew better than modern medicine
Sometimes, maybe... But not where this condition is concerned.
Fascinating
Thank you! :)
Are you an MD?
Do you mean MD? No, I'm a historian. I have a PhD. :)
@@juliamartinshistory thanks
@@juliamartinshistory love your videos
My daughter would agree with you and what he said the guy there said I could not remember his name even though you just said it 5 seconds ago it should flow like a sacrifice yeah that's a pretty good way of describing how her menstruation is.
It's definitely a striking image, isn't it?!
@@juliamartinshistory yup
Periods are commonly few and far between during the beginning years of menstruation. Scares me to imagine people potentially marrying off pubescent girls because of this
I couldn't agree more!
The idea of marriage as soon as possible is rather chilling. Young men may be continuing their education or their apprenticeships, and might not be financially ready to enter marriage. There usually was no pressure on them to marry, and they could sow their wild oats and take their time choosing a wife. Would parents pushing their daughters to marry settle? I shudder to think that these young girls may be given to older husbands they were not attracted to.
In reading about Chlorosis, it stated that girls would lived in the country were immune to the disease. I noticed you didn't mention that - I wonder if my source was incorrect.
It is a very chilling idea, I agree! Unfortunately, marrying without attraction, or even affection, was very common. And you're right, some people did believe that those in the countryside wouldn't suffer from chlorosis as often, because of the healthier lifestyle, exercise, fresh air etc. But not everyone agreed. Plus there's the question of class as well, especially comparing wealthier city girls to poorer ones in the countryside. In any case, I agree with you, it was a diagnosis that could very easily be manipulated in awful ways! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment :)
Color analysis of food that is destined for less developed parts of the world is performed with different light. Rather than the bright blueish light used to film the video, we use a less intense red/yellow light that simulates light emitted from a fireplace or candle. Blood veins near the surface of the skin look blue in 5K light but might look green in the 2K candlelight used during this time period. 🔵+🟡=💚
How fascinating, thank you for your comment!
Interesting!
Those symptoms could also be from a Thyroid issue
You're right! Lots of possible explanations...
I wonder...could these young women have been the introverts, and young women on the spectrum? Neither would do well, when always knowing that they are watched, never have any real privacy, and have to keep their 'odd' thoughts to themselves, or they won't be able to get married. Which is exactly what happened, during this extended period of maidenhood. If you didn't get married, it would never end. But you had to pick the right man, or it would just continue. And who wants to marry someone who doesn't know who you really are, because you've been wearing a mask? See what I mean? (I'm neurodivergent, lol)
That's such an interesting take. I agree with you that young women who didn't 'fit the mould' would have been particularly vulnerable, unfortunately. Thank you for your insightful comment :)
Yeah, I get what you mean. I'm autistic and bisexual. I probably would have been diagnosed with green sickness if I was born two centuries previous. I didn't get my period until I was 16 because I was thin and malnourished because I was a picky eater because I'm autistic, and I was in love with my science teacher Mrs. Matthews but that's a socially unacceptable crush, so I would languish in bed, daydreaming about her and reading Victorian novels (my favourite being The Time Machine by H.G. Wells) and all that lying in bed made me pale and weak. And I got bullied for "talking weird," so why try to socialize, hence even more staying in my room. So there you have our symptoms: no period, pale, thin and weak, quiet and lovesick. All because I'm autistic and queer.
So the answer to my ailment wasn't to get married. It was to encourage me to get an outdoor hobby where I could get some sun and meet people, and work up an appetite through physical activity. Lol. One summer my parents sent me to work on a farm. That turned out not to be my thing, but it did make me more robust.
To be clear, there was nothing truly wrong with me besides probably should have been taking a multivitamin. The rest are just my natural state of being.
@obiwan-in-a-pudding2909 Thank you so much for sharing. I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds terribly difficult. And I agree with you, those symptoms could have been understood very differently in the past. It's a reminder of how we should embrace human diversity instead of trying to fit everyone in the same tiny box! I'm glad you're doing better now. And may I just say that I also love The Time Machine, it's such a good book! :)
Of course! ♥
1:55 honestly, even though I'm not celibate, i easily feel like I've been losing my youth and marriageability. Maybe i have green disease
4:07 I might guess anemia
Haha I'd say that's unlikely!
Very possible!
That cat is huge!
Hahaha very true.
The description of blood needing to flow like a sacrificial victim makes me laugh at all those theories that were popular around the internet a few years ago that until Smart Modern People invented sanitary pads, women just freebled. Like, I'm sure some did! But nobody is bleeding that much all over one of their few sets of undergarments and clothes lol.
Hahaha I know! I agree with you - sure, some did. And it does depend on the culture, time and place etc. But there were lots of ways women dealt with menstruation. Still, I think the image of a sacrificial victim to describe menstruation is one of the funniest things I've read in a while
It cured depression for thousands of years
That's one way of thinking about it!
I saw a program where it was mentioned that the age of consent in American VA in 1790s was TEN
What an absolutely frightening thought!
Good video, I have a question did doctors really masterbate women as a treatment if so do a video about that.
Thank you! And no, that's probably a myth. Having said that, midwives could sometimes resort to this kind of 'massage', but it's unlikely that it was very common. Definitely an interesting idea for a future video though! ;)
@@juliamartinshistory I'd love to see a video about this. I've heard mention of one questionable source describing this 'treatment,' and in the present day it grew into a popular myth.
It's on my list! :)
I was in a small town in northern Montana and in their local museum there were all sorts of things from clothing to tools to objects from old dentist and doctor offices. One was an electric device and I asked the elderly lady who was the docent- what is that for? She told me it was for assisting married ladies to relax, help their nervous complaints. 😂
It was a big moneymaker for the doctor. Once a week was ideal.
Poor thing hahaha
I love your cat. He's rather large.
Thank you. 🥰 And you're right, Pancake is much bigger than most of our neighbourhood cats! ♥
When you talk about the gender element in medicine having to do with culture the first thing that comes to my mind as a man is that whenever anything is wrong they blame smoking and drinking and when I tell them that I don't do either they don't believe me because I'm a man and they don't have any other explanation because they don't know they have just discovered that by blaming smoking and drinking they can get away with not knowing.
That sounds incredibly frustrating, it's so awful not to be believed!
@@juliamartinshistory point is.. trust the science? what science? the science of control? because that is what modern medicine is... the same as it was.. not just control of women.. control of everyone .
And isn't that a frightening thought?!