Finally people that have the same views I have. I'm starting my first overland build . Basically I'm just improving the vehicle I've been using for camping for years. I got stuck got better tires, went up 2 sizes . Cary exta u joints etc. I just improve things I bend or break. Keep it simple. Thank you for the information and keeping it simple.
After doing a lot of dispersed camping in my daily driver 2009 AWD Highlander that I bought new, getting stuck and not being able to go deeper and further away,(from people), for mostly camping/fishing, I decided to reward myself with a specialized vehicle for doing what I love. In 2022, got a 2020 Tacoma SR5 Tacoma 4x4 used 5k miles and built it to what I wanted. Slightly larger all terrain tires Slight lift 2", sliders, regear to 4.88 along with that, front and rear ARB lockers, since then I've added some lights, switch pro, stealth bumper, winch Roof top tent, (an age thing) been camping on the ground my whole life. Just got an oil change today at 19,277 Miles I could have afforded a TRD Pro or Offroad new at the time but I would still have needed to add more and It's not a daily Highlander still runs like a top with 180K as my daily, and paid for may years ago, without the abuse The rear lockers have helped a lot, front maybe twice. Low mileage reliable and build slowly to what you think you need plus a little was my thought process. Happy Camper Here Good video!
Thanks for the information. I'm still building my first truck (sleeping area etc) but bought a Power Wagon just so the basics were already there. I figure those engineers are a whole lot smarter than I when it comes to suspension, tires etc.
Great vid and great advice. I always tell people- get out there with what you have on easy gravel and dirt roads. See what you can do with what you have, and what you wish you could do that you can’t with what you have. Then build your rig to do what you want to be able to do. No more, no less. A few comments I would add for anyone going out there, even if just easy basic roads: Tires- -even for gravel roads I would say if you have large diameter wheels and low profile tires change to a smaller wheel and larger sidewall tire (i.e. go up with the second number- for ex switch from 255/55 to 255/65 if nothing more, but if you can and it will fit (remember has to fit at articulation too) consider going up with first number too for a wider footprint (for ex 255/55 to 265/65). -I always consider puncture resistance and traction the number one considerations bc either one can leave you stranded. I always recommend any tire have a three peak mountain snowflake rating (3PMSF) rating if driving will involve ANY rain, wet roads and rocks, snow or ice. Even with these though get to know them on wet tarmac bc they will not be as grippy as street tires and will have reduced stopping distance and the break away point when turning on wet roads will be sooner. -I really strongly urge people not to go out in street tires unless doing the tamest of roads- I think it’s just asking for trouble. They are just so prone to punctures. Know Your Vehicle- before leaving home read your owners manual, watch vids of how to operate different functions of your vehicle etc. Knowing how to properly use all of the traction control aids, turn off stability control, shift to lower gears manually or into a low range if equipped is key. Likewise, like you said, know where your recovery points are and if there are none put some on- safe ones like you point out. Make sure you know where your jack is and how to operate it Learn- learn how to read a trail- what will obstacles and off camber trails do to the vehicle. Learn how to pick a line. Learn where the vulnerable and lo hanging bits on your vehicle are- trans, oil pan, fuel tank, diffs- especially if not protected with skids. Learn how to use your traction control aids properly, whether they be lockers, LSDs, brake actuated or some combo thereof. -Comms or Communication- if you need help how will you call for help? Will there be cell service where you are going. Can you at least get a text out? What you MUST bring- -Maps- paper print outs of where you are going in case you lose service or electronics go out. If using an app- go to where you are going to be and look around so that the app saves the map quadrants where you will be to the harddrive so that if you lose cell service you can still see your map- GPS may work without cell service but a blue dot on a blank screen is of no help. -Traction Boards- can often get you out of being stuck if it is just due to slippery or soft conditions. Also useful for leveling veh. -Properly Rated Tow Straps (I think non kinetic are also a necessity), Kinetic Recovery Rope, Tree Saver Strap, Shakles and know how to recover with them. If hitting a part of the trail where you may get stuck, consider where your recovery points are and if they will be accessible if you get stuck as you likely might in that obstacle- having great recovery points on the rear but none in front isn’t going to do much good if they are buried in a foot of mud and you need to be pulled out from the front. -a Jack that works -a Shovel -a Rubber Mallet -some basic Tools in a tool bag roll with some of the weird things for autos- like star wrenches. -a Tire Inflator- if running less than 35s can probably just go to AutoZone and pick one up there- just check rating for size tires you have. Even if you are not going to air down you may get a slow leak that just inflating every so often can be enough until you get back to civilization, or maybe you pull out your spare to put on and it is flat or too soft. -a Chainsay- in the Mid Atlantic we get some crazy storms that can come through without warning and quickly and knock trees down- very easy for one to fall across the road you need to go back home on. Ive had this happen while we were out on a trail we had just driven up a few hours earlier. -Water- not only enough but a filtration system in case you run out and have to use local water source. You can live without food for a while, but not without water -Extra Clothes and Blankets in event you get stranded -Medical Kit with basic understanding of first aid. -Winch- If go out alone a lot and want to be able to do a bit more offroading that just a gravel road that a Honda Civic could do I recommend a winch as first mod- you may only use it once, but that one time may save your life or your trip from being a fail. Or you may never use it, but the peace of mind it can provide is nice to have. Just remember that, like with recovery points, when hitting an obstacle that you may need the winch to recovery yourself from, before hitting it consider how you would recover yourself with the winch if you get stuck- can you get to the winch, is there something within reach to attach to etc. added benefit is you will likely have to put on a steel bumper which should come with good, easy to access recovery points. After this stuff just get a cheap shelter or figure out sleeping in veh or cheap ground tent etc, cheap sleeping pad and sleeping bags, a cheap cooler, a box for cooking and eating utensils (just use what you have at home first), a cheap camping burner and grill top and the cheapest pot and pan you can find (Walmart) or again bring something from home. And then get out there. Use this cheap stuff or stuff from home until you use it enough to learn your likes and dislikes and needs and then spend the money on the nicer stuff that you need to meet your requirements. Go have fun and don’t get caught up in the materialistic consumer culture of the whole thing- always remember this is supposed to be about doing stuff, not collecting stuff.
Great advice in this video! I spent money for a year and a half on XJ. The problem was I never went overland camping. Finally I just gave up on trying to build the perfect vehicle and just got out on the trails. Best advice of all was just get out there. After spending thousands of dollars on my old XJ and finding out I didn't need most of the stuff I bought. We have since bought a TRD Venture 4runner and learning from my first build I changed the tires. That's it so far. 1 last thing I am so glad the Trucking company destroyed the Roof Top tent I bought. After camping for a couple of years that would have been a huge waste of money!
I would agree with what you said in this. I have an '08 4Runner. KO2 265 tires, 3" lift. Did an off road trail last year, definitely a good first trail to go on.....and had no issues with my truck. So best thing to do is get out and find a "beginner" trail and do it.
I love my tacoma, and bought it specifically for camping/overlanding. However, I went with a Sport model, as it was less expensive, the only one on the lot that was standard, and got the best value for my trade in. The only things I have done is a tune (because, well, the Tacoma sucks with its stock tune), bigger tires (the largest stock ones I could do), and an upgraded suspension, simply because I found someone who got a beefier one, didnt like it, and sold it for a third they paid for it. I initially built a drawer system in the back, because I liked the looks of it. Then, after using it one, single weekend-decided it doesnt work for me. I can carry everything in one tote, one chuck box, one tent, one bag for our sleeping gear (including cots), one cooler (no need for a fridge), and two packs for our clothes. Thats it. It all fits neatly in the truck. About the only future plans I have, are an upgraded bumper, and a winch (we do often go by ourselves, so its a self recovery option). Even our sleep system is antiquated in the overlanding world :). We tent, using a Gazelle, our bags are Cabellas bags (unless its really cold, then we have high quality sleeping bags for that), some cots because getting old sucks. And, my stove is my pride and joy. A 1970 Coleman 2 burner multi fuel :).
All you really need his food water shelter in some form of mechanized transportation. That said I grew up, traveling up and down the West Coast and chasing motorsports events all over the United States in a rear wheel drive 1970s import car. we took in places we had no right taking including weekends in the sand dunes by taking off the rear fenders and putting larger agriculture tires on. never got stuck that I can remember, never had an issue, and we sure pulled out a lot of slow movers. Which is what we used to call four-wheel-drives like jeeps, and blazers and broncos in the sand. Whatever form of mechanized vehicle you have is probably sufficient for forest service roads. Do your research know where you’re going; many websites and apps will give trail conditions for various roads and trails. I’m full-time on the road for three years. I’ve been out adventuring for over 45 years. The only recovery gear I’ve ever carried is a toe strap. I currently now have a set of ARB treads traction boards that I purchased when I was helping people get out during a freak snow storm that we have on the west coast.
2007 toyota LC4 in East Africa (Lexus GX in USA) wit BF Goodrich AT -- They are tough and mine have lasted approximately 6 years before replacing... and I go into very tough terrain. i need that tread for mud, sand, muck and rocks.... ...
Always great advice! BFG TA are all I needed to go everywhere I've wanted to. Been through Moab Utah, Mammoth Kentucky, Colorado, Florida, Michigan. Never needed much other than a stock 4runner.
Since when have overlanders and off-roaders used common sense on building their vehicles? I am guilty for sure and know much of the add ons will never be used but I have it just in case. And hopefully I never will need it all. All your comments are on point for getting started and getting out there. I would hate to add up the cost of things I’ve added to my 2014 FJ Cruiser, however it certainly is fun to do and keeps me out of bars. For the most part. Tires and suspension are the top of the list for me but all the other things sure look good.
I have a 2019 802A Raptor Supercrew. It's great for rock crawling, not to extreme, overlanding, and off-roading. 35" tires, skid plates, rear locker, torsion front differential, live valve shocks, 7 different drive modes. Lots of wheel travel front and rear. Love it stock, recovery gear, no winch or rock sliders, max Trax boards. Have ditch lights and bumper lights I still need to install.
Yea I bought a 2017 trd pro tundra so I didn't have to do anything with it out of the box ready. I agree with what your saying . I don't understand why people buy a trd pro and start modifying the suspension. I don't get it. A friend of mind has a trd pro 4runner and modified the suspension and had problems. He ended up going back to the original parts which he fortunately for him kept. Only thing I added to the tundra was riggin fog lights and put nitto grapplers tires same size as the factory. I must say I got 190,000 miles on that old mule and it's still kicked. Still have the original bilstein shocks with the pro still working fine no leaks nothing. And that's after five trips to death valley 4 trips to moab and many more.
Great video and very helpful ! Looking forward to more since I am a beginner. Question, without going extreme off-road or rock crawling and doing long distance highway miles, is a 4Runner Off Road with KDSS good enough vs a TRD Pro? Doubt I will be adding lifts. Thinking places like AZ, UT, CO and CA. Thank you again!
Nice and brutally honest. I've had my jeep for 23-ish years, and I've basically been getting camping supplies and vehicle mods the whole time. A lot of real great points here. We just got the wife a newer Jeep and we will be putting a winch on it (I have one), just so then I can be stupid. She'll love having to rescue me.
You guys are awesome. Need help. Have the Toytec Aluma 2.5 with front diff spacers that are partbof the lift kit. The RCI plates have a gap to connect that are about the width of the spacers! RCI nor Toytec have given me good advice on how to get the RCI plates on. Since you have both, how did you get them to install properly? Thanks in advance.
I like a large full size wagon /suv tahoe or suburban size ,what does one do with the 3rd row that manufacturers force us to buy ? power fold 2nd 3rd row s ,like the new sequoia trd off road or trd pro but to much luxury car sunroof, do like it has a soild rear axle but 3rd row take up space not sure if it can come out , like the expedition same issue 3 rd row what ute or pu do you recommend ? want 6.5' box low spec basic models have good payload
Finally people that have the same views I have. I'm starting my first overland build . Basically I'm just improving the vehicle I've been using for camping for years. I got stuck got better tires, went up 2 sizes . Cary exta u joints etc. I just improve things I bend or break. Keep it simple. Thank you for the information and keeping it simple.
Agree with what you're saying here -- caveat: rear diff locker can help a lot in snow if you're stuck.
Love this new series. Please keep them coming.
After doing a lot of dispersed camping in my daily driver 2009 AWD Highlander that I bought new, getting stuck and not being able to go deeper and further away,(from people), for mostly camping/fishing, I decided to reward myself with a specialized vehicle for doing what I love.
In 2022, got a 2020 Tacoma SR5 Tacoma 4x4 used 5k miles and built it to what I wanted.
Slightly larger all terrain tires Slight lift 2", sliders, regear to 4.88 along with that, front and rear ARB lockers, since then I've added some lights, switch pro, stealth bumper, winch Roof top tent, (an age thing) been camping on the ground my whole life.
Just got an oil change today at 19,277 Miles
I could have afforded a TRD Pro or Offroad new at the time but I would still have needed to add more and It's not a daily
Highlander still runs like a top with 180K as my daily, and paid for may years ago, without the abuse
The rear lockers have helped a lot, front maybe twice.
Low mileage reliable and build slowly to what you think you need plus a little was my thought process. Happy Camper Here
Good video!
Thanks for the information. I'm still building my first truck (sleeping area etc) but bought a Power Wagon just so the basics were already there. I figure those engineers are a whole lot smarter than I when it comes to suspension, tires etc.
Great vid and great advice. I always tell people- get out there with what you have on easy gravel and dirt roads. See what you can do with what you have, and what you wish you could do that you can’t with what you have. Then build your rig to do what you want to be able to do. No more, no less. A few comments I would add for anyone going out there, even if just easy basic roads:
Tires-
-even for gravel roads I would say if you have large diameter wheels and low profile tires change to a smaller wheel and larger sidewall tire (i.e. go up with the second number- for ex switch from 255/55 to 255/65 if nothing more, but if you can and it will fit (remember has to fit at articulation too) consider going up with first number too for a wider footprint (for ex 255/55 to 265/65).
-I always consider puncture resistance and traction the number one considerations bc either one can leave you stranded. I always recommend any tire have a three peak mountain snowflake rating (3PMSF) rating if driving will involve ANY rain, wet roads and rocks, snow or ice. Even with these though get to know them on wet tarmac bc they will not be as grippy as street tires and will have reduced stopping distance and the break away point when turning on wet roads will be sooner.
-I really strongly urge people not to go out in street tires unless doing the tamest of roads- I think it’s just asking for trouble. They are just so prone to punctures.
Know Your Vehicle- before leaving home read your owners manual, watch vids of how to operate different functions of your vehicle etc. Knowing how to properly use all of the traction control aids, turn off stability control, shift to lower gears manually or into a low range if equipped is key. Likewise, like you said, know where your recovery points are and if there are none put some on- safe ones like you point out. Make sure you know where your jack is and how to operate it
Learn- learn how to read a trail- what will obstacles and off camber trails do to the vehicle. Learn how to pick a line. Learn where the vulnerable and lo hanging bits on your vehicle are- trans, oil pan, fuel tank, diffs- especially if not protected with skids. Learn how to use your traction control aids properly, whether they be lockers, LSDs, brake actuated or some combo thereof.
-Comms or Communication- if you need help how will you call for help? Will there be cell service where you are going. Can you at least get a text out?
What you MUST bring-
-Maps- paper print outs of where you are going in case you lose service or electronics go out. If using an app- go to where you are going to be and look around so that the app saves the map quadrants where you will be to the harddrive so that if you lose cell service you can still see your map- GPS may work without cell service but a blue dot on a blank screen is of no help.
-Traction Boards- can often get you out of being stuck if it is just due to slippery or soft conditions. Also useful for leveling veh.
-Properly Rated Tow Straps (I think non kinetic are also a necessity), Kinetic Recovery Rope, Tree Saver Strap, Shakles and know how to recover with them. If hitting a part of the trail where you may get stuck, consider where your recovery points are and if they will be accessible if you get stuck as you likely might in that obstacle- having great recovery points on the rear but none in front isn’t going to do much good if they are buried in a foot of mud and you need to be pulled out from the front.
-a Jack that works
-a Shovel
-a Rubber Mallet
-some basic Tools in a tool bag roll with some of the weird things for autos- like star wrenches.
-a Tire Inflator- if running less than 35s can probably just go to AutoZone and pick one up there- just check rating for size tires you have. Even if you are not going to air down you may get a slow leak that just inflating every so often can be enough until you get back to civilization, or maybe you pull out your spare to put on and it is flat or too soft.
-a Chainsay- in the Mid Atlantic we get some crazy storms that can come through without warning and quickly and knock trees down- very easy for one to fall across the road you need to go back home on. Ive had this happen while we were out on a trail we had just driven up a few hours earlier.
-Water- not only enough but a filtration system in case you run out and have to use local water source. You can live without food for a while, but not without water
-Extra Clothes and Blankets in event you get stranded
-Medical Kit with basic understanding of first aid.
-Winch- If go out alone a lot and want to be able to do a bit more offroading that just a gravel road that a Honda Civic could do I recommend a winch as first mod- you may only use it once, but that one time may save your life or your trip from being a fail. Or you may never use it, but the peace of mind it can provide is nice to have. Just remember that, like with recovery points, when hitting an obstacle that you may need the winch to recovery yourself from, before hitting it consider how you would recover yourself with the winch if you get stuck- can you get to the winch, is there something within reach to attach to etc. added benefit is you will likely have to put on a steel bumper which should come with good, easy to access recovery points.
After this stuff just get a cheap shelter or figure out sleeping in veh or cheap ground tent etc, cheap sleeping pad and sleeping bags, a cheap cooler, a box for cooking and eating utensils (just use what you have at home first), a cheap camping burner and grill top and the cheapest pot and pan you can find (Walmart) or again bring something from home. And then get out there. Use this cheap stuff or stuff from home until you use it enough to learn your likes and dislikes and needs and then spend the money on the nicer stuff that you need to meet your requirements. Go have fun and don’t get caught up in the materialistic consumer culture of the whole thing- always remember this is supposed to be about doing stuff, not collecting stuff.
As always, great, honest, easy to understand information.
I appreciate that!
Great advice in this video! I spent money for a year and a half on XJ. The problem was I never went overland camping. Finally I just gave up on trying to build the perfect vehicle and just got out on the trails. Best advice of all was just get out there. After spending thousands of dollars on my old XJ and finding out I didn't need most of the stuff I bought. We have since bought a TRD Venture 4runner and learning from my first build I changed the tires. That's it so far.
1 last thing I am so glad the Trucking company destroyed the Roof Top tent I bought. After camping for a couple of years that would have been a huge waste of money!
Tks for sharing, plenty of good advices!
Great advice....
Excellent as always! Love you guys.
Our pleasure!
Great advice! Thank you.
Excellent - Thanks!
Great video. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
I would agree with what you said in this. I have an '08 4Runner. KO2 265 tires, 3" lift. Did an off road trail last year, definitely a good first trail to go on.....and had no issues with my truck. So best thing to do is get out and find a "beginner" trail and do it.
Well said!
Great video! I've never before seen two Toyota owners who are reasonable...
Thanks a lot, my wife just watched your video and now I have some explaining to do!!! 😅 😂
You’re welcome 😊
I love my tacoma, and bought it specifically for camping/overlanding. However, I went with a Sport model, as it was less expensive, the only one on the lot that was standard, and got the best value for my trade in. The only things I have done is a tune (because, well, the Tacoma sucks with its stock tune), bigger tires (the largest stock ones I could do), and an upgraded suspension, simply because I found someone who got a beefier one, didnt like it, and sold it for a third they paid for it.
I initially built a drawer system in the back, because I liked the looks of it. Then, after using it one, single weekend-decided it doesnt work for me. I can carry everything in one tote, one chuck box, one tent, one bag for our sleeping gear (including cots), one cooler (no need for a fridge), and two packs for our clothes. Thats it. It all fits neatly in the truck. About the only future plans I have, are an upgraded bumper, and a winch (we do often go by ourselves, so its a self recovery option).
Even our sleep system is antiquated in the overlanding world :). We tent, using a Gazelle, our bags are Cabellas bags (unless its really cold, then we have high quality sleeping bags for that), some cots because getting old sucks. And, my stove is my pride and joy. A 1970 Coleman 2 burner multi fuel :).
All you really need his food water shelter in some form of mechanized transportation. That said I grew up, traveling up and down the West Coast and chasing motorsports events all over the United States in a rear wheel drive 1970s import car. we took in places we had no right taking including weekends in the sand dunes by taking off the rear fenders and putting larger agriculture tires on. never got stuck that I can remember, never had an issue, and we sure pulled out a lot of slow movers. Which is what we used to call four-wheel-drives like jeeps, and blazers and broncos in the sand. Whatever form of mechanized vehicle you have is probably sufficient for forest service roads. Do your research know where you’re going; many websites and apps will give trail conditions for various roads and trails. I’m full-time on the road for three years. I’ve been out adventuring for over 45 years. The only recovery gear I’ve ever carried is a toe strap. I currently now have a set of ARB treads traction boards that I purchased when I was helping people get out during a freak snow storm that we have on the west coast.
Lock the rear diff. Take the money budgeted for a front locker and use it for a winch
Thanks guys for being so honest and helping the newbie’s with good information. Thanks 😊
Our pleasure!
I live a clean FB / Insta free life and it's great just learning not imitating
Love it!
2007 toyota LC4 in East Africa (Lexus GX in USA) wit BF Goodrich AT -- They are tough and mine have lasted approximately 6 years before replacing... and I go into very tough terrain. i need that tread for mud, sand, muck and rocks....
...
Always great advice! BFG TA are all I needed to go everywhere I've wanted to. Been through Moab Utah, Mammoth Kentucky, Colorado, Florida, Michigan. Never needed much other than a stock 4runner.
Since when have overlanders and off-roaders used common sense on building their vehicles? I am guilty for sure and know much of the add ons will never be used but I have it just in case. And hopefully I never will need it all. All your comments are on point for getting started and getting out there. I would hate to add up the cost of things I’ve added to my 2014 FJ Cruiser, however it certainly is fun to do and keeps me out of bars. For the most part. Tires and suspension are the top of the list for me but all the other things sure look good.
So you're saying you don't like my 37s? LOL. Great video!
I have a 2019 802A Raptor Supercrew. It's great for rock crawling, not to extreme, overlanding, and off-roading.
35" tires, skid plates, rear locker, torsion front differential, live valve shocks, 7 different drive modes.
Lots of wheel travel front and rear.
Love it stock, recovery gear, no winch or rock sliders, max Trax boards.
Have ditch lights and bumper lights I still need to install.
Thanks for the practical information. Gives me more confidence to get out and explore our national forests.
Yea I bought a 2017 trd pro tundra so I didn't have to do anything with it out of the box ready. I agree with what your saying . I don't understand why people buy a trd pro and start modifying the suspension. I don't get it. A friend of mind has a trd pro 4runner and modified the suspension and had problems. He ended up going back to the original parts which he fortunately for him kept. Only thing I added to the tundra was riggin fog lights and put nitto grapplers tires same size as the factory. I must say I got 190,000 miles on that old mule and it's still kicked. Still have the original bilstein shocks with the pro still working fine no leaks nothing. And that's after five trips to death valley 4 trips to moab and many more.
That’s why I got a 22 Trd pro 4Runner. Pretty much ready out of the box. I just don’t have any friends to pull me out.
What color
@@brettharsanye5939 black
Y’all are awesome ❤ keep it up I don’t agree with all y’all’s points but each to their own
Well done and solid advice !
Great video and very helpful ! Looking forward to more since I am a beginner. Question, without going extreme off-road or rock crawling and doing long distance highway miles, is a 4Runner Off Road with KDSS good enough vs a TRD Pro? Doubt I will be adding lifts. Thinking places like AZ, UT, CO and CA. Thank you again!
Either will do equally fine!
@@WanderlostOverland thank you 🙏🏼
Nice and brutally honest. I've had my jeep for 23-ish years, and I've basically been getting camping supplies and vehicle mods the whole time. A lot of real great points here. We just got the wife a newer Jeep and we will be putting a winch on it (I have one), just so then I can be stupid. She'll love having to rescue me.
Been taking notes & queues from you guys when building out my '12 FJC! Loving the series!
Great advice 👍🏻
Gerry Davis i have a 2000 Chevrolet Tahoe z71 what would I do first and is it something that would be best for overlanding
Do u still like the Aqua quest withe river duffel bag ? I'm thinking about buying it
Not only are we still using them, they've taken the place of our normal luggage!
@@WanderlostOverland thank you sir 🙏
Love this series….pro builds vs backyard real builds are a big difference
Has anyone tried using snow tires just for off road use?
You guys are awesome. Need help. Have the Toytec Aluma 2.5 with front diff spacers that are partbof the lift kit. The RCI plates have a gap to connect that are about the width of the spacers! RCI nor Toytec have given me good advice on how to get the RCI plates on. Since you have both, how did you get them to install properly? Thanks in advance.
I like a large full size wagon /suv tahoe or suburban size ,what does one do with the 3rd row that manufacturers force us to buy ? power fold 2nd 3rd row s ,like the new sequoia trd off road or trd pro but to much luxury car sunroof, do like it has a soild rear axle but 3rd row take up space not sure if it can come out , like the expedition same issue 3 rd row what ute or pu do you recommend ? want 6.5' box low spec basic models have good payload