What People Don’t Understand About 10CSPM - IMPROVE Your CS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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I still remember my first lol pvp match I managed to kill 15 minions as Ahri, for the entire 27min game.
I sometimes get 4cs/min on ahri lol
Benefit of maining adc as first role, learned to cs fairly quick bc it is much easier
@@bleuemoone8710 thats rly Bad even for Bad Players esp. On ahri where u just have to spam q at some point to reach atleast 8 or 9 per min
Better than most new players
ahhh yes, ahri was my first char, went into pvp at lvl 3 with my high lvl friend. i remember just afk farming mid the whole game and using ult to run away. didn't die until mid/late game.
What other coach would put out information this high quality in such an easily digestible fashion for free. Truly remarkable, thank you Curtis for elevating the playerbase
I agree, absolutely amazing that this content is free.
The reason Chovy is so good isn't because he gets 10cs/m, it's because he get's 10cs/m whilst also doing all of the other things mentioned in this video.
Chovy isnt good because he gets 10cs/m, he gets 10cs/m because he is good.
yagao better tho
Curtis:"look at this little LuL state we're nothing is happening and I can just take some Camps"
Jayce:"Help, Please Help me! *****"
Curtis:"As I said, nothing is happening so I can just take the Krugs here"
Jayce: *drowning noises*
HAHAHA TRUE
HAHAHAHA
@ 31:35
ahahahah lol it looks like the guy was screwd and helping him would result in two deaths, but this is just too funny.
And I only now notice the guy also question marked and complained in chat, lol that makes the joke even more perfect
To be fair, it's good to recognize when someone is dead, regardless of how much health they have
As a hardstuck gold 2 player, this vid singlehandedly made everything click for me... for the past month or so I’ve been trying to get up my CS numbers as per the advice of other coaches, but your advice to “just be stronger than the other guy when it’s time to ARAM” made EVERYTHING make sense to me. I know how to get CS leads in lane and get kills in lane since I’ve been studying wave management, trading, etc. for so long, and I can cs quite well since I’ve been focusing on just CSing for the past month, and before I would just ignore my team’s dumbass fights, but changing my mindset to “just aram better than the other guy to get out of low elo” has just put me on a huge winstreak
I'm glad this gave you a bit of insight!
"Hey, everyone! And welcome to another video, guys."
This is gold.
No, this is diamond!
@@KurzedMetal hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha
Hey, Jose! And welcome to another video.
Up until now, your channel is the only channel on youtube that ACTUALLY made me improve at league. Love you Coach^^
That means a lot man, really appreciate that
so far*
Curtis I think you should’ve included Chovy in this video. I swear he is literally the best cser/laner in the world with the best mechanics in Korea 😂😂
The Throne belongs to Showmaker 🤗
@@juancarruyo9737 that's not even true, Chovy is actually better
He literally did lol
man, I watched a replay that Chovy did 10.5cs/min as TF vs Yasuo... and one game of Orianna he fucking did 11.6cs, at the time I didn't even notice how fucking good is he at csing...
12:53
You always somehow make a video that relates to what I'm focusing on :D Thanks Curtis :)
Youre welcome
Literally same this guy is something else i dont get it its like the 5th time now he puts a video out on something im focusing on
Mind reader Curtis. My pleasure brother
Even though I don't main mid, I love how specific your content is and even more importantly the fact that you emphasize practicality and gradual improvement.
Thank you for what you do
This was so useful for me, it made me realize I had some invisible narratives about how my CS'ing determined my skill as a player and when I dropped that narrative I did fall from S2 to S3 0lp because I was getting less CS but I then roared up to G4 70Lp in 60 games with a 74% winrate because I was able to capitalize on opportunities I was missing by taking too much harass for CS.
You addressed the issue I believe I'm currently struggling with. My average cs is way, way higher than average for my rank, but I miss too many fights because of that. I figured it out by myself lately, but your video made me sure that it does make a problem. Thanks!
A Curtis video a day, keeps the bronze rank away 😂❤
I used to tunnel vision on 10-11 cs/minute so hard I inted games by never grouping to farm two lanes and jungle for 25 minutes. In my mind there was no reason to fight so I was right and they were wrong.
But eventually I learned to accept that adapting to the current play is better than trying to play "right".
Even though I sacrifice several minions here and there to secure double scuttle or collapse on enemy jg invade etc. I always end up most cs highest xp in the game anyway, AND I have a higher KP. 10 cs / minute is a trap.
Thanks for the insight! As a mid laner I'll specially remember the rule of thumb you mentioned of going for the trade instead of the cs when both minions are about to die.
god that cass image at the end is so cursed lmfao not with the chest hair too
Mental warfare
It's crazy to think how good his content is, started playing last february and got placed Iron 2 in my placements, had never played a moba in my life, now I'm near diamond with 59% winrate and everything I know came from his vids.
Thanks Curtis!
That's insane!
"Gold is a story of being as strong as you possibly can within the laning phase, getting to that 13-15 minute mark, and grouping on that dragon and being stronger than your counterpart"
I'm a top main and I found this little tidbit extremely helpful. I'm finding success and it's been painfully accurate so far... I feel physical pain from realizing it's true.
I 100000% feel the same way. I heard everywhere to stop grouping for fights because it is a coin flip whereas split pushing and taking towers is guaranteed gold. I never had too much success with this mentality
Does it works even if i play Fiora ? Im an OTP Fiora hardstuck Gold2.
@@pavelcasian4152 fiora is for split push just keep pushing u can even 2v1 that way ur team can win more fights and drakes becz enemy will defend top...
You are so fucking good coach Curtis. The title doesn’t do the video justice. This is very rich and in-depth content. Thank you for taking the time. Here’s a like and a comment.
My prayer was answered! Thank you, Coach Curtis!
No problem mate
That last example with the TF shutdown on the Kai'sa opened my eyes. I also fell into the trap of cs/min-I would have never given up that wave and just called my team bad for feeding in lane and jungle bad not ganking my lane that I've frozen perfectly for 10 minutes. In hindsight I can imagine how many winnable games I've probably dropped one tricking TF in Silver/Gold due to this mindset.
This is really the only video I've found that addresses the weighing of outcomes in relation to wincon like this. The explanation about your losing toplaner, the TF vs. Tristana lane being hopeless, and "creating a wincon through bot" was the best explanation of what being proactive means in a game state context. I've had so many games like this where I'm focusing CS and KDA instead of looking for plays.
I'll probably have a more keen eye for opportunities that I would usually miss now because I used to overvalue CS and perfect wave state.
Great teacher, thanks Curtis
Never thought you could make a vid just on cs for 40 mins 😭😭 love the vids Curtis thanks
I've seen people actually NOT CS, and have around 90 CS at 30 minutes. By not CSing they forced me and other players to walk to their lanes to prevent them from shoving into our turrets. As a Jungler I wish people have better wave management because if I don't go to the lane being shoved on the opposite side of the map, nobody else will and the enemy will get to our Nexus (I've seen this happen). This video helps me a lot and I'm sure it will help others too. I'll definitely be recommending this.
I just discovered my N.1 problem in league of legends, ty coach, allways on point
No problem Carmine :)
I just wanna say this... Thank you curtis youre an amazing content creator
Im going to link this video every time my low elo friends pm me a screenshot of their cs per min compared to challenger players.
Many things to learn here, good job!
I played LB vs Yasuo. Tried to punish him, but didn't want to lose farm. I started with god farm, but let him scale up. We lost, I had 3.8 CS/min at 25 min.
Played LB vs Sylas later. Traded with him all the time, missed half of my farm, but got 2 solokills. The enemy jungler had to decide to camp mid or let me shove and roam. We lost that too, but I had 4.3 CS/min at 30.
From this I learned that LB can completely shut down the enemy midlaner together with the jungler so they can take over the map. And of course practicing how to farm is useful.
Hey coach i love ur videos so much, can we get a Sylas guide soon? Thanks for the vids love u
Curtis did a guide for Sylas about a year ago, so the items/runes/matchups are going to be different, but the concepts still apply. Here's the video: th-cam.com/video/ykkBIUFVuTo/w-d-xo.html
Might be able to do an updated one soon :)
Nice, always been confused about this topic. Let’s get some learning on
Thank you so much for this! I'm currently in Iron (really new player, literally have less than 30 hours I think) and I'm only getting 6-7 cspm, and I've been stressing so much about my cs score. It's nice to know that not even challengers and pro players aren't achieving 10 cspm even the majority of the time; makes me feel a lot better about myself. I cannot thank you enough, Coach, for all your educational videos. Because of you, I've decided to make mid my main home, and it's been stressful but really fun! Thanks!
LOVE IT! Good luck on your journey mate
Dw about ur rank as ranked is just a journey of self improvement. I wish I knew about that before I just grinded tirelessly without knowing what I needed to improve on. 8)
this is a year ago but the fact that you were iron less than 30 hours and getting 6-7 cspm is insane,ive been playing since 2016 and only able to get that on adcs or in a good game
I'm a minute and 33 seconds in and you made a simple rule that I intuitively know stand out:
"Don't worry about planning exactly how you want to perform, but instead, do the best you can under the circumstances of the moment."
This concept has helped me to be more honest with myself, and to grow as a man and a player. This is because I know that I also have the self-critical voice in my head that tells me "Oh c'mon, you've been playing since open beta league, and you still can't do this yet?"
It has helped me to maintain a positive mental attitude, being reminded that each game is completely different set of circumstances from all previous games, and so can the results be also as varied and different.
Edit: Now at 36 mins and 15 seconds, you've triggered me another question I commonly ask myself:
"Is this the RIGHT thing to do, right now?"
Instead of asking whether it's "The best" thing, just simply question whether you should or shouldn't do something. Turn it into a yes or no question, instead of a hypothesis of complex thought that will distract and take you out of your flow-state.
This helps me to to avoid day-dreaming about what ifs, instead focusing on what's now.
Thanks very much for the very useful improvement content, Curtis.
Important things again.
More about understanding and creating the enviroment to CS then hardfocusing on CS itself and developing the ability to judge when to abandon some CS for important other thing on the map and when there really is it the thing to do just to be there in lane and collect...and ignoring the complains of teammates with another opinion what one shouldve done..
There are a lot of good players out there, but how soon to be bearded again Curtis explains and makes the connections visible and understandable is just great.
Thanks Coach, this is the sort of stuff we need regarding wave control
Curtis, man. I really don't know how you do this. The quality of the analysis, the form of presenting and discussing in a comprehensible manner. Really: GREAT content as always. I share your videos with all my friends whenever I can. Thanks for always putting such an insane effort on your videos! Cheers from Brazil.
I gotta thank you for every effort that you made doing these videos and tell that i'm on my road to master(From low D4 to stomping D2 players easily), all thanks to you Coach Curtis you're the best
I'm glad you made this video, I was that kinda guy who valued cs way too high, especially the rule of thumb will help me a lot
This channel is a gold mine
Really important video. I knew this on some level for a long time and this is just like a wonderfully formalized explanation of the topic. SO many videos (even many meaning well) just spam you with "Just farm better 4Head" really is unhelpful. Anyone can look up the stat differences between themselves and a high level player, but its about understanding how to get there!
Appreciate that Jared, glad it helped you out :)
Great video. 10 CS/min on paper is great, but in reality it sets your team behind as you are probably draining the jg to reach that cs/min.
Thank you Curtis! This was an awesome wake up call. I've been gold for years and my paradigm was literally if I get 10 cs I'm winning otherwise I'm losing.. tried out the new mindset last night on ekko and dropped to 5.8 cs..... But went 16/1 and hard carried us to a win! Thank you so much for all you do!
No problem Cole :)
Great video Curtis, really enjoyed this one. I have had similar thoughts throughout the past few years in regards to CS scores as you lay out in this video. It's always nice to hear another's thought process and mindset. Cheers!
What I love about your videos is that you reconsider some concepts that are in game for ages and seems like everyone know everything about it. But game changes, some community opinions are being affected by mistakes etc. There was a time when I also was obssesed with 10cs per minute. And while it helped me to improve my cs in general it was quite toxic indeed. This took too much focus in my learning that it didn't deserve and that willpower could be spent more effective in any other area of play.
So, if come concept is right, you help to understand why it's right, you structurize all we know about topic and show us connections between A and B, cause and consequences. If something not quite right you also explain how and why. That's why your videos are so high quality and very helpfull. Being able to question a wellknown knowledge, test it and critisize is a skill of true a coach.
Thank you for your work
My pleasure Dmitrii, appreciate the kind words
Your comment about split pushing really hit me hard. I'm high gold (was low plat last season) and as Ekko I used to split push the whole game even when ahead. I realised that lost me games. For 2 reasons. I didn't shove and move, I just stayed in the other lane - and sometimes I would just not TP to a fight because I could get an inhib.
The problem is that I didn't use my powerspike to win the teamfights, and I often ended up ahead in gold, but my team was down on gold, and eventually it cost me a lot of games.
My conclusion is the same as yours. Often split pushing is maybe the right play to do, but it's a risk since you might lose the game because your team randomly engages and you're just getting a few waves in top lane...
This ended up being a big rant, but thank you so much for your guides. Your honesty and overall understanding of the game and all ELOs is just awesome. Thank you.
My pleasure man :)
Good stuff. I am no longer actively playing but still watch all Curtis videos o_O
I’m always never late to your videos!!
funniest thing was curtis's clash tag was bbc kekw nice 1 coach
Thats the podcast!
Not sure if you remember but a while back I was featured in a BBC Q&A episode a few months ago (I was/am currenty a LB TF and Ori player) and you addressed my statement of setting a high cs goal for myself, and how its sometime bad to get high cs in low elo. And I was literally wondering when ur gonna make a video about the topic since from my knowledge you havent talked about cs goals just yet. Keep up the great content as always
Thanks for tuning in Auhora :) I remember the name!
Beautiful. The whole video from start to finish :')
I am a Galio main in Silver/Gold and I usually get 5~6CS/min in a game while my opponent has 7~8 CS/min. I often sacrificing CS for following teammate's play or responding enemy's play. Such as TPing bot at lv4 as a countergank or backing the jungler up for risky dive or invade. I was struggling for the low CS score and lose some confidence to play mid lane. Yeah maybe I need to improve my fundamentals, but thank you for making this video that gives me some confidence and maybe helps me to keep enjoying this "natural" playstyle.
thank u, Curtis for sharing with us all your experience, and this is not granted for everyone and for this reason I thank u, for giving to every player, that want to improve, a possibility and USEFULL information, soooo THANK U
Just my 2 cents in addition to what you covered to further maximize your cs: use the sweeper to clear out wards during the lull states/grouping states before obj.
Another amazing video. You made it so clear, easy to understand. We just need to put the work in and test our hypothesis. Also, congrats for the 100k subs. I found the channel somewhat around 5k and really wanted that you had the recognition you deserve.
If i see you in real life I would love to hug you. You helped me so much
this guy is legitimately goated
Very nice thing. I am always conflicted between helping and aiming for better CS.
Could you please do a guide in your how to counter series on Yone ? The champion feels really opressive once he gets his shieldbow
Your videos are getting better and better !! cheers
Man you're changing and evolving I love it!
I love you man! Thanks for the great content, every minute was worth it
Korean mid laners optimizing trades allowing them to put up massive damage numbers stems from that idea of trading/punishing the enemy for last hitting. At least in the classical sense (older seasons), I would say. It's still a thing and is a good way to create leads.
Hey Coach! It's great to see you sharing your wisdom with us one more time. Even though I'm a jungle main your explanations about game helps me a lot.
My pleasure!
You should strive to get as much cs as possible while contributing to other objectives.
The only times we intentionally sacrifice cs is if something else has a higher priority, which should rarely be the case.
I personally treat CS as a currency that sometimes has to be spent immediately to unlock certain situations like fights or roams etc. Sometimes the currency CS provides is literal gold that you can utilize to buy more items and gain power that way, sometimes that currency has to be spent to unlock scenarios within your game that can lead to even bigger gold advantages.
Man very helpful guides. Thank you very much!!!
Your channel has grown so quick. So happy for you!
Appreciate you :)
Please! Do an updated Annie guide!! She is currently the best she has ever been and I think it would be worth to redo!
Agree with the video except what you said about splitpushing. I used split pushing to climb out of low elo and the amount of people that had no idea what was going on is actually ridiculous.
With that being said, I wouldn’t recommend abandoning your teammates when fighting for important objectives like soul or baron unless you can somehow take out their nexus turrets during that fight, nor would I recommend splitting if the team fight that’s about to happen determines the outcome of the game.
I feel so called out... all I ever care about is wave management and CS :/ it really hurts my squirmishing and teamfight tbh
Only BBC fans recognize Curtis's jungler on the Orianna VOD.
Top secret information
I realized that I have a problem of CS with LeBlanc, and the next day you upload the video that I need, thanks Coach you are amazing lml
Cheers, RyzeWolf
Thanks for watching Ryzewolf
This is just what I needed :D
Fantastic video, great explanation and great way of actually improving your game. I'd like if you get the time to read my following statement though, since I believe it's extremely important for lower elo players and the shitfest games we play.
I want to touch on a very specific thing that is not necessarily related to what this video says, though. I think the problem with people not improving or doing so very slowly isn't because they are unable to learn. Most of the games in low elo (silver-plat) are general shitfests. Massive difference in skill resulting in massive gaps is a big factor of that, and why lots of games are lost in matchmaking. It's so extremely hard to develop healthy habits on what works and what doesn't, how match ups should play out, when you should get cs and when you should roam etc.
Basically, everything you talked about in the video is generally really hard to understand when they work and when they don't, simply because the games are just so high variance. And not the healthy type of variance, like for example challenger games where the tempo is high, one small winning trade can snowball hard. I am referring to things that SHOULD play out a certain way and you should count on such things to plan your next steps, and instead end up getting the complete opposite.
For example, Lee Sin is supposed to hard beat an Evelynn early, because he is much stronger blah blah. Because of that, you try to play your laning phase in a specific way to either get Lee to gank you by freezing your lane, or pushing it and roaming with him and shut down Eve early. Both gameplans are perfectly viable and you can choose between the two. Now, regardless of what you chose, Lee SOMEHOW ends up dying to Eve in the jungle 1v1, then Eve proceeds to clear out his side of the jungle, thus Lee is now behind the curve of what he wants to be, while Eve is skyrocketed ahead to her level 6 spike etc.
That is something that should NEVER happen and you would never account for in high MMR games, yet in silver it can easily happen. How do you even account for things like these? How do you plan your strategy in lane, or later in the mid-late game? Because of these types of unhealthy variance in low MMR games, you can almost never develop healthy habits like the ones discussed in the video above, so in the end, most players just end up thinking "I will do whatever is best for myself and hope to 1v9". And sadly, that's how it is and that's the best strategy. Now, that selfish approach doesn't always mean I should always stay in the side lane and splitpush and join a teamfight when I'm 330 cs at 27 minutes and hope for the best. It can mean that I play Zed and just perma roam and pick up kills. It can mean a lot of different things that might look beneficial to you but do not necessarily translate in meaningful game-winning leads, just because there is the unhealthy variance that even if you help your bot lane by giving them 3-4 kills, they still lose the 2v2 for example.
I could go on with more examples and variables, but I think you kinda get my point.
"do you go for the last hit or trade back?"
Me a Jhin main: yes
I feel like its so hard to get 10cspm against hard matchups but from what I learned you should give up cs for losing hp or dying which I find ok, but I just cant deal with being at 50cs at 10min it hurts =(. Anyways nice video for me as a mid laner
Hey Coach! I must say that you are looking GREAT! Godbless and thank you for the video that I've been looking for.
Hey Curtis, I think it is possible to have a perfect game, knowing it may be impossible as a human. In theory we could have a supercomputer play out or model the perfect game given the starting configuration. I think at any one point as a player though playing the perfect game starting at the next move would take too many inputs and too long to process, which maybe goes to your point of only being able to judge the move after the game is over. I think this is the mental stack analogy where you bigger stacks lets you interpret more in a single moment bringing you closer to the perfect move.
I used to stalk Rekkles when i played adc. I was just amazed how he got +10 cs EVERY SINGLE GAME WITH EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION. So i got the missjugdment that if i got to that numbers i could climb faster. I actually could reach around 9cs/min with Tristana but also 40% winrate. Now i watch this, i understood everything xD.
Looking fresh Curtis, and thanks for making me improve everyday!
No problem mate
Hey Curtis, thanks for making such in depth educational video's!
No problem at all mate
Hey Coach Curtis ! Thanks for the amazing free content ! I really enjoy your view of the game and I believe you should use your analytical mind to make videos about other topics ( psychology, maybe another game...) keep it up :-)
Reason why you want high CS in diamond and below is that CS is in your HANDS. If you are strong agency is in your hands. When you help your team it's coinflip and you don't know if your team will respond properly.
Splitpushing is OP in lower elo cause you are usually farming a bit more and at same time forcing enemies to make dumb positional mistakes.
That's why smurfs don't group with low elo players. They have much more control when in side lane and not commiting to useless skirmishes.
This video is all I needed.
this is honestly amazing and i follow everyfuckingbody man. brilliant breakdown little time invested by me
16:53 THE CODEX ASTARTES STATES THAT YOU ARE WRONG.
Jk, good video man!
Another informative video. Thank you Curtis.
Curtis: You choose between a low minion and a good trade
Irelia: How about both?
You are one of the only high elo coaches that is trying to understand braindead ppl and explain everything thank u. lost chapta
my man curtis getting a cut, looking good G
I went through your videoes and stuff and was hoping for a Talon guide. I wouldnt even mind if it was from season 10 or even 9. I tried to watch the zed guide to compensate but zeds laning and late game is way safer and he does everything Talon can do in a better way. Anyway, Just more about the macro play and what to focus on and what to do after the laning phase. I often feel useless post lvl 14 with Talon, he’s been my main for a while but I never play him in ranked.
- coming from a silver 1 player.
I wish there was this info but specfific for jungle :/. Great vid anyhow!
Great video, super informative and indepth!
the way i like to put it is: Gold and EXP is a means to an end, if the end is easier, why take the extra steps.
It is simply, naturally, difficult to hit the CS at the right time for some reason. I get access to it, I am close to it, I see my minions hitting to it, and when I land my AA I leave it with 1 HP or my minion kills it before I AA... the CS'ing part is really difficult, and I'm almost 3M on Ahri... It doesn't come naturally to me to be reaching +9 cs/min, but I get +7 cs/min instead
It's true, setting a specific aim of cs/min is stupid because plenty of different variables. However, I like the fact that we can optimise the farm. I recently saw one of Chovy's games as Viktor: th-cam.com/video/s4w_89KA_9I/w-d-xo.html
And he nearly hit 300 cs at 24 minutes. He hit 12 cs/min and it's still remarkable even though he's at the top elo. In my opinion, a great reason to that much optimised farm is the perfect last hitting and perfect shoving. I think he hardly missed any minion by accident in that game. There's also the decisions of which lane to go to and also proper base timings but I believe if the player perfects their last hitting, they can consistently hit 8 cs/min or something as high.
I genuinely remember watching all these guides and my only goal being csing. I was hitting 190+ cs at 20 min (im low gold). But because i only focuses on cs, i wouldnt rotate, help jg, gank, or do anything but try and cs... so id be losing with 10 cs/min
Do you do any VOD reviews? I've been trying to practice Orianna and I have a game that I literally don't know what I could do. I am to the point that I want to say it's just one of those games that you auto lose but I don't want to cop out. I literally cannot see how I might have played it better so I'm sure I am missing something
Coach Curtis I agree with you for the most part but split pushing, IMO I think if you are a top laner it’s ok (Ik you prioritize mid lane so maybe that’s why you said split doesn’t matter) but then again I’m a Garen/Tryn/Rumble abuser so it makes diving people under tower with ignite almost impossible to mess up.
"CS Score" bro you're killing me
I mean in low elo usually I will take a good roam, lose maybe one wave of cs, then get a gank from my jungler who will take a wave of cs, then randomly the entire team decides it's time to ARAM and all cs are belong to anyone and I can't sacrifice my limited mana pool on last hitting so it almost always funnels into the adc. I tend to win more than I lose, but my cs numbers are abysmal when I play in low elo x_x
Great video as always
brilliant video yet again