When I was a confused Dispensationalist I read the Bible in light of the doctrine and felt like I was drinking from a dirty glass. After leaving it behind and seeing the Bible for what it really is, it’s like endless fresh water from the cleanest glass I’ve ever seen.
@@distantgalaxymusic1447same. What’s wild is that a ton of dispensationalist encourage daily deep dive Bible reading so of course growing up I did so cuz you know trying to be a “good” Christina kid. However the Bible I was reading wasn’t lining up with what I was being taught at church and dare I say my parents… So anytime I questioned what was being preached or told to me I was always shut down with… “you have to take God at his Word”. “Maybe there’s sin in your life that’s keeping you from understanding Gods REAL truth”. Meanwhile I would sit back and scratch my head while my parents cheered on the death of Palestinians because God will fulfill his promise by protecting Israel and destroy their enemies… I’m honestly surprised I haven’t walked away from the faith. Lol but at the end of the day I can’t blame God for how dumb the human race is! 😂
Many many thanks to Dr, Wright for his lectures etc on UTube. I left theological college in 1985 and spent the next 40years in pastoral ministry as well as bringing up a family. My husband of 56 years died a year ago and I have at last found the time to seek answers to questions about the Kingdom of God that my theological studies left me with. Particularly re the kingdom of God on earth as in the Lord's Prayer and many biblical texts. I was never satisfied with the idea of the Kingdom being in heaven after we die. Nobody ever suggested it was on Earth, but in my mind that didn't seem to be what Jesus was telling us. At last those texts make sense. I am reading g the Bible with fresh eyes and loving what Dr Wright is explaining. So, I, in my mid 80's am at last having my questions fulfilled. Bless you N.T. Wright. Best wishes from Auckland New Zealand.
This message is a powerful reminder of Christ's love for each of us. In today's world, we need this lesson of compassion more than ever. Thank you for sharing this timeless sermon that still speaks to us today.
absolutely brilliant, a masterpiece sermon. He is like a Jonathan Edwards of our day. Its it so amazing how wonderful our Lord Jesus is. What grace what mercy, what love. That He worlds with such failures of human beings. What hope, what joy. To Him who is worthy of all our praise and worship.
I feel deeply renewed by this message which is desperately needed by Christians and non-Christians alike. This passive, heaven/endtimes-centered attitude in the church has kept it from preaching a real, energetic, life-changing Gospel. The whole world is groaning right now at the expectation of this message/mission - the Missio Dei. So much food for thought...I'll have to listen again to this video a few more times. Greetings from Brazil.
I’m a fan of N.T. Wright because of his knowledge of God’s word the Bible, and the fact he is so well spoken. I’m an American Anglophile, and the fact he’s English is a plus. 🇺🇸🤝🇬🇧
If you are familiar with N. T. Wright, you may have heard this material. But I found this talk carries coherence of many subjects within the broader topic of the resurrection. I highly recommend it.
Thank you Dr. Wright....absolutely fabulous! And I was so glad to hear you mention Randy Alcorn. I’m a longtime fan of his . He has been very quiet lately as his beloved wife, Nancy, recently passed. She herself a great believer, lived every day for Jesus. Randy’s books about heaven are compatible with your teachings. I’m so grateful to be familiar with the works of both of you. ✝️✝️✝️❤️🙏🏻🕊💖
Tim Mackie has a similar theology about heaven and earth coming back together as it was before sin entered.I have been praying about end time prophesies, asking the Lord to teach me the truth about them. These videos just started popping up on my TH-cam home page. The topics drew me. God is answering my prayers, and it is marvelous!
Amen, five year journey for me, after 38 years a normal churchian believing in off to heaven, God woke me up with a simple added word in a verse, which caused misunderstanding. (it was in italics in old KJV, means it isnt in original text... so much meddling in the original message down the centuries). Look into Pauls "mystery" which he says is "unsearchable" (for the jews at that time in OT) which is in Greek "musterion" meaning a secret. Its in all Pauls Epistles. Get a greek Koine interlinear in your smartphone to check the weird bits. The so called "Mystery" Its about who we are as the ekklasia, the group known as "the body" believers, a "new creation" and ties in with Wright here, and look up Mike Heiser with his work on the Unseen Realm and Divine council! It gets bigger. Bigger than Texas. Keep praying and searching, a whole new understanding which ties all the bible loose bits together is there. And then it gets better. Like at the end of the Narnia saga, "further in and further up." When you know who the "sons of God" were in the OT, and see what trouble they caused, then understand why you have been granted the right to be a son of God, and will judge angels, then you begin to grasp the enormity of what Wright outlines here. And the relationship of "the nations" (see Deut32:8) and begin to see who you are in him and will be after resurrection. be encouraged.
A man of God for this time. Amazing insights. A sign that truly the time is short-the world groans and reels under the weight of the current darkness. But the light still shines. 1:04:44 1:04:49
Every epoch has , by the providence of the Almighty, a voice, sometimes crying in the wilderness, sometimes in a stuffy conference, who can delineate the path the church is traveling or deviating from, N.T. Wright is such a man. A man for the hour we are in.
Who are you. I am enthralled with your eloquence and your knowledge of scripture. You are such living water in light of current culture sermons. A devoted fan
Thank you for your transparency. The very fact that you care and want to do the right thing proves that you’re a good father. Blessings to you and your wife as you continue this journey of parenting together.
Until 2 years ago I had never entered a Anglican Church, thought they were way off! but since my new daughter in law is an Anglican PhD theology lecturer I was forced to look at it! this guy is amazing! And More!
I so agree though I have to listen a few times to really get what he’s saying. A wee bit highbrow perhaps? I wonder would you enjoy Malcolm Smith Webinars?
"If God raised Jesus from the dead, everything else is just Rock and Roll, innit." Ain't that the truth, let's get on with our own part of the Temple that God will put together, that he may be all in all.
It is well worth the time to hear this sermon to the end to hear our role in the the coming of the Kingdom of God as heaven comes to earth and becomes one in the return of its Lord and King Jesus the Christ.
NTW’s message is so appealing but it’s difficult to unlearn years of Sunday School teaching. I believe he’s onto something ‘huge’ but it’s pretty radical to the average pew warmer. Listen and read his stuff more than once for best results...
I recommend surprised by hope. Another preacher you might want to check out is Gary DeMar and Greg Boyd. Greg Boyds book repenting of religion is a great book.
Absolutely beautiful. I never once thought heaven was our destination, but a temporary place until Christ returned with His people to set things right. I met Jesus in 1971, and reading the Bible saw this clearly. All of the nonsense of being Raptured to escape Earth seemed a fantasy. Jesus Himself says ," Behold, I make all things new.," not, "I make all new things." He took me in my sin and filled me with a new mindset, and sent His spirit to dwell in me as a down payment for what is to come, when He makes His appearance again to sit as King over the Earth. That has been my understanding all along. How delighted to hear a much more refined and detailed account of this event, one in which all of His people get to participate in establishing order out of the mess mankind has made of His creation. Hallelujah. Stated so brilliantly, I thank you.
He understands what the Bible says. How wonderful for me to find someone who knows that the heaven and earth will be renewed and we shall live here still. Like him, I hear people talking about going to heaven after death, that is our home, and I want to scream out, No! This earth is our home and one day God will renew both the saved humans and the whole created world and we and the creatures will know what joy really is, for eternity.
32:16 Why did God make the world that was other than Himself? Answer: Out of sheer generous love! And in order to fill it with His love and life - so that it remains both itself and infused with Gods presence.
For those who think that followers of Jesus are anti-intellectual, here is Exhibit A that you don't check your mind at the door when hearing the Word! BTW - great sense of humor as well.
This is a revelation about Revelation! 2000 years of knowledge I can look back on and still I miss the most important message after my repentance and baptism
This message is absolutely phenomenal! Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise from the dead so we could go to heaven. He died and rose again so heaven can come to earth. Maran.!!! For another angle on this same message, I recommend John Eldredge's book "All Things New"
this message is so helpful to those(me also )who have wondered about life after death.Our thoughts of heaven have been many and varied.N T,s opening up the nearness of heaven being just on the other side of the “veil”is helpful in our appreyoff
Our appreciation of Christ’s second coming with the saints to be caught up with Him in the heavens finally coming to reality in the present of the new Jerusalem here on earth,Gods ultimate Presence!
I once asked a family member with quite a history, "If you could have anything in the world that you wanted or Jesus Christ, which would you choose? He replied, "Jesus Christ. let's rock and roll!"
Wow! I read and underlined SURPRISED BY HOPE. Now this extended presentation shows how (a) we're not going to be with God in Heaven but God is coming to make "heaven" on Earth and how (b) we, the sanctified and resurrected humans, are going to be the Earth's leaders and transformers. I always knew that Jesus trusted his disciples to continue to proclaim the Good News, but Paul seemed to be putting all the power and glory in the hands of Jesus making us meerly his cheer-leaders. Now I see that Paul in Romans has us doing the leading! There are only two sore-spots: #1 [timer=51min] The way we share the Messiah’s glory, in the present, is by sharing in his suffering. Jesus became King of Israel and Lord of this world when he was crucified [resurrected?]. That’s the point in all four Gospels. . . . But this is also a dangerous distortion of the Synoptic Gospels. Within the last twenty years, the soteriology of the atoning death has fallen upon hard times. To begin with, God's threat of death (Gen 2:17) directed toward his own children in the Garden strikes modern ears as a cruel and excessive punishment for a single infraction of eating the forbidden fruit. Furthermore, studies by Herbert Haag, demonstrate that "the idea that Adam's descendants are automatically sinners because of the sin of their ancestor . . . is foreign to Holy Scripture." As Martin Buber would have it, the descendants of Adam sinned "as Adam sinned and not because Adam sinned." Furthermore, the notion that forgiveness for the guilty must be achieved at the price of torturing the innocent runs the risk of supporting a very dubious and unbiblical notion of divine injustice. Accordingly, Stephen Finlan notes quite pointedly in his book-length examination of atonement theories in the Christian Scriptures: “It does us no good to perceive Jesus as heroic if we are forced to view God as sadistic.” • Richard Rohr, meanwhile, in his retreats and homilies, tells his hearers: “As our own Franciscan scholar John Duns Scotus taught, Jesus did not need to die. There was no debt to be paid. Jesus died to reveal the nature of the heart of God.” • Feminist theologians, for their part, alert us that classical soteriology espouses a sadistic case of "divine child abuse." • Wolfhart Pannenberg, a leading Lutheran theologian, notes that "Anselm's conception . . . was also taken over by the dogmatics of Protestant orthodoxy in the seventeenth century, although its primary concern is foreign to the authentically evangelical understanding of salvation." • John T. Carroll and Joel B. Green, meanwhile, conclude their extensive study of Paul with this caution: "Paul uses an almost inexhaustible series of metaphors to represent the significance of Jesus' death, and penal substitution (at least as popularly defined) is not one of them." • By way of measuring the pastoral impact of the atonement theory, a recent Protestant study closes with a strong cautionary note: “We believe that the popular fascination with and commitment to penal substitutionary atonement has had ill effects in the life of the church in the United States and has little to offer the global church and mission by way of understanding or embodying the message of Jesus Christ.” Edward Schillebeeckx painstakingly researched the whole gamut of biblical references pertaining to the suffering and death of Jews (Jesus included). By way of summarizing his findings, he wrote: God and suffering are diametrically opposed. . . . We can accept that there are certain forms of suffering that enrich our humanity. . . . However, there is an excess of suffering and evil in our history. . . . There is too much unmerited and senseless suffering. . . . But in that case we cannot look for a divine reason for the death of Jesus either. Therefore, first of all, we have to say that we are not redeemed thanks to the death of Jesus but despite it (1980:695, 724f, 729). Whether it is Jews being tortured by perverse medical experiments in the camps or Jesus tortured on a Roman cross deliberately designed to humiliate and prolong death, there is no divine logic that can sanction or sugar-coat such horrors. God cries out with the victims and tears his garments in grief as he does so. Any other would-be G-d cannot be said to be in solidarity with innocent victims. #2 [timer=53min] We are the people who stand in agonized prayer. That is the primary way that we exercise the glory and dominion in creation. Prayer is the ultimate image-bearing activity at the moment, and often it is very painful prayer. This is also in tension with the Synoptics. In my Catholic upbringing, we were taught to overrate prayer and to use it to escape from the world. The Fatima promises by Our Lady are a good case of this. I offered up my daily sufferings and recited five decades of the Rosary "for the conversion of Russia." President Nixon, at the same time, had ordered saturation bombings in North Vietnam on civilian populations. Kissinger had assured him that such "war crimes" would bring the Vietcon to the bargaining table. So, I was introduced into a false piety whereby Russians were to be converted (to Roman Catholicism?). This promised to bring peace into the world. Yet, in fact, it distracted me from the fact that my own government approved the use of tiger cages by the Diem government and that the use of Agent-Orange was infecting Vietcon soldiers as well as American soldiers. So I need to hear more about this "very painful prayer" and about how earnest prayer leads to public action. Jesus took action when John the Baptist was jailed by Herod. He did not ask his disciples to pray for the release of John. That would have been false piety. Check on the works of mercy, not one of them includes praying for the sick, praying for the imprisoned, etc. In 1989, the wall dividing East and West Berlin was torn down. The East Berliners spontaneously came out of their apratments and began talking to friends and neighbors. There lives were suddenly open to new possibilities. Now they were permitted to visit West Berlin, to taste something of their personal liberty and their progressive social order. Now they were permitted to find employment and to relocate in the West. Within a few years, East and West Germany were again reunited into a single country, a democrary. All of this was possible due to Gorbachev. The Carnegie Foundatation asked to help Westerners to understand the totally unexpected reforms put in place by Gorbechev. Here is what he wrote: Following Mikhail Gorbachev’s election as general secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on April 23, 1985, his future aide Anatoly Chernyaev wrote in his diary: “There are great expectations of Gorbachev, just as there were of [one of his predecessors, Yury] Andropov. After all, what’s needed is a ‘revolution from above.’ Nothing less. Otherwise it won’t come to anything. Does Mikhail Sergeyevich [Gorbachev] understand this?” Even the CIA had no information on Borbachev's peristroika. No one in the Blue Army and none of the childen who spoke with Our Lady had any advanced info. Thus, the conversion of Russia did take place, it was created by Gorabachev, and you can bet Catholics saying their daily rosaries had nothing to do with it.
Does he not think that God's kingdom exists now in the earth? We are His people and He walks among us working His will in the earth as is done in heaven. We are the physical people He has spiritually endowed. I fully expect to see Him where He is now in the heavenly realm after this physical life is over. What I don't hope for is another physical life but one that is fully glorified so I can be with Him forever. The lake of fire burns forever gathering its souls which is why that fire will never go out. A perfect world is not the goal, a perfect people however is. If a glorified man can live in heaven then so can I! Praise God.
14:48 Where does the Bible speak of death as going home? 2 Corinthians 5:6-9 [6] So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, [7] for we walk by faith, not by sight. [8] Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. [9] So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. This is not the final state of being, we will once have a new physical body and all things on earth will be made new. But there is a true sense in which if we die before that time, we got to be “at home with the Lord” and “away from the body.”
This is the first I’ve heard of Dr. Wright. His teaching really makes sense. I’m really trying to sort out eschatology as there are so many interpretations and I’ve gone in so many directions only to reach a dead end. Does Dr. Wright believe that Jesus returned in judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD as the olivet discourse describes?
The marvellous thing is that if nt suddenly dies he will find out how wonderfully wrong he was as he finds himself enjoying the heaven he didn't believe. in.
I've been saying this for years. That the idea of people going up to a spirit world and staying there as floating spirits for all eternity is not in the Bible. We'll be given new bodies...we'll be reigning here on the earth during the 1,000 year reign of Christ...and we'll have those same new bodies when we see the New Heavens and the New Earth.
Outstanding Biblical concepts. Spot on and I haven’t heard such truth from a Church leader ever - the Christadelphian Bible Movement have been teaching these truths since 1848 under the guidance of Dr.John Thomas, and many since.
Hi Fuller Studio, thank you for posting the NT Wright series to TH-cam. Are you able to edit the titles to reflect their proper chronology/sequence in order that they can be listened to/watched in their original order? Thank you!
Well if what he is saying is absolutely true please explain why in the discourse between Jesus and Pilot He says my kingdom is not of this WORLD and when the disciples were with Jesus at the His ascension they were looking up and saw that a cloud received Him. Heaven for me is wherever Jesus is. I just want to know like the their knew...today you will be WITH ME in paradise.
The world referred to here that of power and domination and not the earth. Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth and not the patterns of the current world. Tom Wright has teaching on this.
in bible talk "world" is not a planet most of the time, but a condition or age. Think "worldly ways" or "this current evil world" or "in the world to come" and you begin to see, think with a 1st century mind. We have all seen too much sci fi, and Capt Kirk going out to bravely explore "new worlds" where no man has gone before.. lol.
@@dannydojthe earth that is being inherited by the meek…are the kingdoms of the world that pass to the saints in heaven. “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”” Revelation 11:15 “Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’” Daniel 7:27
Ok but sooooooo many questions- Like what about the rapture??? What about near death experiences and ppl seeing Jesus / going to heaven??? What about the tribulation?? I’m so confused as to how this fits this narrative.
Thanks for annihilating bad rapture theology and so making sense of eschatology, Rev Wright. There is one return of Christ, and that's when the rapture will occur, and all will see his coming. Nothing like the Left Behind series.
love this... 12:21:00 the resurrection of jesus forms the model as well as the means for the future renewal of all creation... *_what god did for jesus at easter is what he will do for all his creation in the end_* and the resurrection of jesus ... translates both into what god will do for the whole creation and what god of course will do for his people in particular creation will be in one sense the same yet radically different, it will be the same material it will not be a new creatio ex nihilo, it will be a creoxio ex veterae, a creation out of the old, as it was with the body of jesus it will be the same material yet utterly transformed so there will be no more corruption no more decay how will god do this, by the spirit as the wind blew over the waters of creation... 46:18:00 ...to the renewal of the whole creation under the wise sovereignty of jesus, a sovereignty which all those in the messiah are called to share so the climax in romans 8 is not about us going to heaven... *_it's about god's plan to renew the whole creation, god is going to do for the whole creation at last what he did for jesus at easter_*
Well then what did Jesus mean when he said to the good thief "This day you will be with me in paradise"! It sounds to me like you are saying we will be returning to earth even if renewed . We are promised a new earth, however not only an new earth but also a new heaven !. So there must be some context for life "beyond" the life here and now. We are working for the kingdom of God which is with us 'today'! Yes. But it doesn't seem plausible even by your argument that there will not be place that we understand as "heaven" or paradise. I do love your notion of the 'groaning' . But I still think there is a heaven -- An experience of God after our work on earth is done ! It is the 'finale'!
a misunderstanding in church tradition has the thief saying "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Now the original greek had no punctuation markers like the english and was all written in capitals with no spaces, So translators used their (sometimes biased) knowledge to the verse as it was widely accepted and inserted the comma after "truth." That made it a promise with a timetable emphasized. If you shift the comma one word to the right, then you get "I tell you the truth TODAY, you will be with me in paradise." This makes it a statement of urgency or strength emphasized but no time factor given. (Just as Wright says we believers will all be with Jesus in Paradise and as 1Thes4:16 says "we will thereafter always be with him." The dead rise etc, all arrive at once perhaps) The new earth and new heaven follow the 1000 yr period after Jesus returns and we have been ruling with Jesus all that time, at end of that, after the evil one has drawn many more into one last try to overthrow God. The 1000 yrs is like the final skim of the melted refined metal in the crucible, the last impurities removed and that is what 1Cor15:28 means when Jesus will hand it all back to God (at end of the 1000yrs,) so that God can be all in all." Original plan of Eden existence, temporarily upset by the devils rebellion, be back on track, mission accomplished. Do you read in Mathew.. "the meek will inherit the earth?" and someone else said "the earth was made for man." Perhaps the new earth will be ginormous so there will be no overcrowding??? Just saying.
I agree with a lot of his ideas but this idea that the coming kingdom will be on THIS earth is troubling. The Bible seems to me to be very clear about this earth being reserved for fire in 2 Peter 3. And often speaks of a new earth. This new earth is even described to be without a sea. God originally created this earth to be habitable, but the opening of the fountains of the great deep in the time of Noah covered of this earth in water and seemingly created the oceans. Any thoughts?
There is a lot to unpack with your comments but very good and fair questions. First off when it talks about the new heavens and the new earths it uses the Greek word Kainos which means restored or redeemed as opposed to neos which mens brand new like a new born baby. Also as far as the sea goes take a close look at the design pattern of how seas are used throughout the Bible. It’s often used as a stock symbol of chaos or disorder. Therefore if there is no “sea” there will be no more chaos or disorder. Hope that gives you a good start to your searching. I have found with my journey of following Jesus that I have grown the normal by wrestling with Gods word as well as wrestling with commentaries from folks such as NT, Tim Mackie and Shane J Wood to name a few. God bless brother and I wish you well on your journey. Keep asking questions and searching Gods word.
I was wondering about this too (new heavens/earth, this earth will pass away, etc.). I’ll be discussing this with my pastor (he reads NT Wright books). Lots to think on, that’s for sure! 🙏🏻
This is an interesting subject. It appears to be complex, but it isn't. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 does explain how we will meet Jesus when he comes, in the air. in the cloud. Jesus taught us that the kingdom of heaven is within you, here on earth. But in the book of Acts, Jesus does say that he is coming back in the clouds and take us to the actual heaven, the capitol. In the book of John, he tells us he is going to heaven to prepare us a place and that he wants us to go and be there with him. What makes all this confusing is that after the earth has been cleansed and recreated God will bring us back to the earth. Revelation 20 and 21 explain this.
You possibly miss the cloud of saints who return with Jesus when he comes to start the clean up. We will be "with him always after" is the continuation of 1Thes4 you quote. So meeting him in the air and always then being with him implies this. And elsewhere we are said to be glorified with him and reign with him with rods of iron, over the nations. Sounds like the clean up. Then comes the new Jerusalem and new heaven and new earth. Gods Edenic vision complete.
Why say "if" as though you don't know Jesus was raised. Take him at his word! When you pray do you say, "God if you exist, bless this food." How rude! No one shall receive anything from him if they do not trust in him.
This really spoils most funerals for me, and quite a few hymns. I keep hearing the platonism jumping out at me. The resurrection of the dead is not new teaching. It’s in our creeds! (Nondenominational churches aren’t reading the creeds anymore) In my 50 years I had only one pastor teach specifically on the resurrection. It was more like a sidebar- by the way did you know that heaven isn’t what you think? -pastors don’t preach this because it is hard for our modern minds to imagine. It’s easier to imagine ourselves as a disembodied spirit, therefor they can save more, fill the pews, if they don’t focus on it. No wonder our youth are leaving the church. When they actually read their bibles for themselves it sounds nothing like the little bits they heard in church. We need to repent and preach /teach the entire story.
Exactly, but not from creeds, they are more man made ideas. Best straight from scripture and with help of tools to look at word meanings in original language.
2 Corinthians 5:8 To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord. Is he talking about the millennium reign of Christ on Earth or is he talking about Revelation 21 and 22 with the New Jerusalem. A lot is missing in what he is saying. Is he talking about the Millennium?
As I read Scripture, the BoC is made up of believers since Paul's conversion, whereby; He,Jesus Christ, for now over 2,000 years is building His body, some of which are sons of God ~Rom 8 until'Rapture'. I read, my'citizenship' is in heaven and that all my blessings are in heavenly places. I also read the whole of creation groans, waiting for restoration by the sons of God (mermbers of BoC?) Rom 8. From this I deuce my eternal vocation, after the BSoC will be in the heavenly realm as the one new man with a body fashioned like Jesus'. I do think Israel and Disciples/Apostles are destined,eternally to/for their earthly vocation, participating w/ God in restoration, thereof. Am I wrong? Please advise. ~BillR
When someone says your "citezenship is in heaven" then you can also take the message as a promise that it is prepared for you, held at moment in heaven, and will come to you from heaven. It does not automatically mean you have to go to it. I believe we will indeed go there at rapture, to glorification, for ordering and weapons practice, before returning as that "cloud of saints" that returns with the lion of Judah, our head and CinC. To kick butt and take names as Bob Wassung says.
"Heaven," where God's throne is, has been the home of all of the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints, in their pre-resurrection body. When Paul's rapture takes place, the church will be resurrected and will then spend the entire 70th Week (7 years) in heaven. It is where our homes Jesus has prepared for us is. During the time we judge, Christ's millennial reign of one thousand years, there is very little doubt that we will travel back and forth between earth and heaven. It is only after the great, white throne judgment that this earth will disappear, and God will create a new earth. Then the heavenly New Jerusalem will descend to the new earth.
I agree that the goal is not to escape the nasty awful material world to some celestial vacation from responsibility. The focus of eschatology is about bringing Heaven and Earth together in a new covenant where God indwells His people and through them dwells with man. Jesus did precisely that at His parousia in A.D. 70. The language about a new heaven and new earth is Covenant/Temple language. The Temple represented both Heaven and Earth. The old temple fell, the body of Christ is the new Temple, City and Kingdom. The Romans destroyed the old ones. But people do die; it's just that we're all living in the presence of God, whether in or out of the body.
Romans 8 never said that righteousness could never be attained by the people of God in their present bodies of inherently sinful nature ; they could attain righteousness in the very same bodies of flesh and blood through the Spirit of Jesus dwelling in them so that they could put to death the misdeeds of their fleshly bodies by living according to the Spirit and not to their own flesh. Resurrection was the regeneration or renewal from the old self to the new man so that the righteous status could be attained. See Romans 8:10-11, “But if Christ is in you, you body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness…”, Romans 8:13-14, “For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who were led by the Spirit of God are sons of God…”. Righteousness is attained by living our life which is led by the indwelling Spirit and not by the sinful nature of our body so as to put to death the misdeeds of the body. The focus is on the power and the working of the Spirit in transforming our life so as to attain our righteousness by faith through God’s grace. The doctrine never suggests the removal of the inherent sinful nature of the body by way of renewing or reconstructing the biological nature of the body. What “the creation” was waiting in eager expectation and was groaning in the pains of childbirth was the Parousia of Jesus, the life-giving Spirit who would come to dwell in the people of God to give them their resurrection and their inheritance of the Kingdom of God (Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem), Hebrews 12:22-28.
Romans 8:19 for the whole of Creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God . Fulfillment of the Our Father : Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven . St
I am the ressurektion and the life. He that believeeth in me though he were death, yet shallhe live and who soever liveth and believeth in me shal never die. Comforting words of love for Martha, when she was mourning over her brother. His vieuw is shared by jehovawitnesses. They also do not believe that your soul is going to Jesus after you die.
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In these times so dominated by dispensationalism, these messages are like a breath of fresh air. ✔️
When I was a confused Dispensationalist I read the Bible in light of the doctrine and felt like I was drinking from a dirty glass.
After leaving it behind and seeing the Bible for what it really is, it’s like endless fresh water from the cleanest glass I’ve ever seen.
@@distantgalaxymusic1447same. What’s wild is that a ton of dispensationalist encourage daily deep dive Bible reading so of course growing up I did so cuz you know trying to be a “good” Christina kid. However the Bible I was reading wasn’t lining up with what I was being taught at church and dare I say my parents… So anytime I questioned what was being preached or told to me I was always shut down with… “you have to take God at his Word”. “Maybe there’s sin in your life that’s keeping you from understanding Gods REAL truth”. Meanwhile I would sit back and scratch my head while my parents cheered on the death of Palestinians because God will fulfill his promise by protecting Israel and destroy their enemies… I’m honestly surprised I haven’t walked away from the faith. Lol but at the end of the day I can’t blame God for how dumb the human race is! 😂
Many many thanks to Dr, Wright for his lectures etc on UTube. I left theological college in 1985 and spent the next 40years in pastoral ministry as well as bringing up a family. My husband of 56 years died a year ago and I have at last found the time to seek answers to questions about the Kingdom of God that my theological studies left me with. Particularly re the kingdom of God on earth as in the Lord's Prayer and many biblical texts. I was never satisfied with the idea of the Kingdom being in heaven after we die. Nobody ever suggested it was on Earth, but in my mind that didn't seem to be what Jesus was telling us. At last those texts make sense. I am reading g the Bible with fresh eyes and loving what Dr Wright is explaining. So, I, in my mid 80's am at last having my questions fulfilled. Bless you N.T. Wright. Best wishes from Auckland New Zealand.
This message is a powerful reminder of Christ's love for each of us. In today's world, we need this lesson of compassion more than ever. Thank you for sharing this timeless sermon that still speaks to us today.
N.T. Wright has served as the main paradigm shifter in my Christian walk! So grateful for his teachings.
Same here.... With Tim Mackie of the Bible Project
Same here, Tony! I wish I would’ve known about him 30 years ago. The Bible FINALLY makes sense!
absolutely brilliant, a masterpiece sermon. He is like a Jonathan Edwards of our day. Its it so amazing how wonderful our Lord Jesus is. What grace what mercy, what love. That He worlds with such failures of human beings. What hope, what joy. To Him who is worthy of all our praise and worship.
What a wonderful teaching. I agree with you Bishop!
I feel deeply renewed by this message which is desperately needed by Christians and non-Christians alike. This passive, heaven/endtimes-centered attitude in the church has kept it from preaching a real, energetic, life-changing Gospel. The whole world is groaning right now at the expectation of this message/mission - the Missio Dei. So much food for thought...I'll have to listen again to this video a few more times. Greetings from Brazil.
God bless you in Brazil!
I’m a fan of N.T. Wright because of his knowledge of God’s word the Bible, and the fact he is so well spoken. I’m an American Anglophile, and the fact he’s English is a plus. 🇺🇸🤝🇬🇧
Nice. 🙏
Bishop Wright is amazing. Much love from an Orthodox Christian. May Almighty God bless you and the good Bishop.
Well that’s answered a lot of questions I’ve been asking for years - and so eloquently. Thank you !
If you are familiar with N. T. Wright, you may have heard this material. But I found this talk carries coherence of many subjects within the broader topic of the resurrection. I highly recommend it.
Thank you Dr. Wright....absolutely fabulous! And I was so glad to hear you mention Randy Alcorn. I’m a longtime fan of his . He has been very quiet lately as his beloved wife, Nancy, recently passed. She herself a great believer, lived every day for Jesus. Randy’s books about heaven are compatible with your teachings. I’m so grateful to be familiar with the works of both of you. ✝️✝️✝️❤️🙏🏻🕊💖
Found NTW through Tim Mackie. Thank goodness. People who make sense.
NT Wright writings changed my life radically.
God bless you
This is the message that will be at the root of the next great awakening.
This lecture is masterful, enjoy-the rich and complicated theology laid out with such simplicity is enormously appreciated!
He just makes it all make sense. Wish everyone could hear him.
Tim Mackie has a similar theology about heaven and earth coming back together as it was before sin entered.I have been praying about end time prophesies, asking the Lord to teach me the truth about them. These videos just started popping up on my TH-cam home page. The topics drew me. God is answering my prayers, and it is marvelous!
Amen, five year journey for me, after 38 years a normal churchian believing in off to heaven, God woke me up with a simple added word in a verse, which caused misunderstanding. (it was in italics in old KJV, means it isnt in original text... so much meddling in the original message down the centuries).
Look into Pauls "mystery" which he says is "unsearchable" (for the jews at that time in OT) which is in Greek "musterion" meaning a secret. Its in all Pauls Epistles. Get a greek Koine interlinear in your smartphone to check the weird bits.
The so called "Mystery" Its about who we are as the ekklasia, the group known as "the body" believers, a "new creation" and ties in with Wright here, and look up Mike Heiser with his work on the Unseen Realm and Divine council! It gets bigger. Bigger than Texas. Keep praying and searching, a whole new understanding which ties all the bible loose bits together is there. And then it gets better. Like at the end of the Narnia saga, "further in and further up." When you know who the "sons of God" were in the OT, and see what trouble they caused, then understand why you have been granted the right to be a son of God, and will judge angels, then you begin to grasp the enormity of what Wright outlines here. And the relationship of "the nations" (see Deut32:8) and begin to see who you are in him and will be after resurrection. be encouraged.
Many ideas currently taught by N.T. Wright and Tim Mackie were originally taught by Dr. Michael Heiser.
A man of God for this time. Amazing insights. A sign that truly the time is short-the world groans and reels under the weight of the current darkness. But the light still shines. 1:04:44 1:04:49
Tom Wright always brilliant and humbling.
Every epoch has , by the providence of the Almighty, a voice, sometimes crying in the wilderness, sometimes in a stuffy conference, who can delineate the path the church is traveling or deviating from, N.T. Wright is such a man. A man for the hour we are in.
He DEFINITELY is Among the Better communicators of Biblical Truth…
Who are you. I am enthralled with your eloquence and your knowledge of scripture. You are such living water in light of current culture sermons. A devoted fan
Having just read "Surprised by Hope" this is a wonderful energizing summary of the book. Awesome!
Life changing book.
A great explanation about 'the God's Kingdom on the Earth' thank you, Dr. NT Wright.
Thank you for your transparency. The very fact that you care and want to do the right thing proves that you’re a good father. Blessings to you and your wife as you continue this journey of parenting together.
I have heard many messages in my 30 years or studying the Gospel in my life and this undoubtable is under the top 3.
What would one and two be???
Until 2 years ago I had never entered a Anglican Church, thought they were way off! but since my new daughter in law is an Anglican PhD theology lecturer I was forced to look at it! this guy is amazing! And More!
I so agree though I have to listen a few times to really get what he’s saying. A wee bit highbrow perhaps? I wonder would you enjoy Malcolm Smith Webinars?
"If God raised Jesus from the dead, everything else is just Rock and Roll, innit." Ain't that the truth, let's get on with our own part of the Temple that God will put together, that he may be all in all.
It is well worth the time to hear this sermon to the end to hear our role in the the coming of the Kingdom of God as heaven comes to earth and becomes one in the return of its Lord and King Jesus the Christ.
NTW’s message is so appealing but it’s difficult to unlearn years of Sunday School teaching. I believe he’s onto something ‘huge’ but it’s pretty radical to the average pew warmer. Listen and read his stuff more than once for best results...
Which books would you recommend? I have his book..."The New Testament in its World"...will that contain the information I need to learn?
Agree, this is my third time on this video, lol
That’s the effects of modernist, materialistic Protestantism.
@@shawnstephens6795 Theres so many but you could try Surprised By Hope, The Day the Revolution began, How God became King
I recommend surprised by hope. Another preacher you might want to check out is Gary DeMar and Greg Boyd. Greg Boyds book repenting of religion is a great book.
Absolutely beautiful. I never once thought heaven was our destination, but a temporary place until Christ returned with His people to set things right. I met Jesus in 1971, and reading the Bible saw this clearly. All of the nonsense of being Raptured to escape Earth seemed a fantasy. Jesus Himself says ," Behold, I make all things new.," not, "I make all new things." He took me in my sin and filled me with a new mindset, and sent His spirit to dwell in me as a down payment for what is to come, when He makes His appearance again to sit as King over the Earth. That has been my understanding all along. How delighted to hear a much more refined and detailed account of this event, one in which all of His people get to participate in establishing order out of the mess mankind has made of His creation. Hallelujah. Stated so brilliantly, I thank you.
He understands what the Bible says. How wonderful for me to find someone who knows that the heaven and earth will be renewed and we shall live here still. Like him, I hear people talking about going to heaven after death, that is our home, and I want to scream out, No! This earth is our home and one day God will renew both the saved humans and the whole created world and we and the creatures will know what joy really is, for eternity.
32:16 Why did God make the world that was other than Himself? Answer: Out of sheer generous love!
And in order to fill it with His love and life - so that it remains both itself and infused with Gods presence.
Thank you Sir...I wept.
I really enjoyed listening to this message! 🥰
For those who think that followers of Jesus are anti-intellectual, here is Exhibit A that you don't check your mind at the door when hearing the Word! BTW - great sense of humor as well.
This is a revelation about Revelation! 2000 years of knowledge I can look back on and still I miss the most important message after my repentance and baptism
This message is absolutely phenomenal! Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise from the dead so we could go to heaven. He died and rose again so heaven can come to earth. Maran.!!! For another angle on this same message, I recommend John Eldredge's book "All Things New"
this message is so helpful to those(me also )who have wondered about life after death.Our thoughts of heaven have been many and varied.N T,s opening up the nearness of heaven being just on the other side of the “veil”is helpful in our appreyoff
Our appreciation of Christ’s second coming with the saints to be caught up with Him in the heavens finally coming to reality in the present of the new Jerusalem here on earth,Gods ultimate Presence!
I once asked a family member with quite a history, "If you could have anything in the world that you wanted or Jesus Christ, which would you choose? He replied, "Jesus Christ. let's rock and roll!"
This was an absolutely wonderful teaching...
Without the resurrection it's not a matter of losing a talking point, there would be no conversation in the first place!
Wow! I read and underlined SURPRISED BY HOPE. Now this extended presentation shows how (a) we're not going to be with God in Heaven but God is coming to make "heaven" on Earth and how (b) we, the sanctified and resurrected humans, are going to be the Earth's leaders and transformers. I always knew that Jesus trusted his disciples to continue to proclaim the Good News, but Paul seemed to be putting all the power and glory in the hands of Jesus making us meerly his cheer-leaders. Now I see that Paul in Romans has us doing the leading!
There are only two sore-spots:
#1 [timer=51min] The way we share the Messiah’s glory, in the present, is by sharing in his suffering. Jesus became King of Israel and Lord of this world when he was crucified [resurrected?]. That’s the point in all four Gospels. . . .
But this is also a dangerous distortion of the Synoptic Gospels.
Within the last twenty years, the soteriology of the atoning death has fallen upon hard times. To begin with, God's threat of death (Gen 2:17) directed toward his own children in the Garden strikes modern ears as a cruel and excessive punishment for a single infraction of eating the forbidden fruit. Furthermore, studies by Herbert Haag, demonstrate that "the idea that Adam's descendants are automatically sinners because of the sin of their ancestor . . . is foreign to Holy Scripture." As Martin Buber would have it, the descendants of Adam sinned "as Adam sinned and not because Adam sinned." Furthermore, the notion that forgiveness for the guilty must be achieved at the price of torturing the innocent runs the risk of supporting a very dubious and unbiblical notion of divine injustice. Accordingly, Stephen Finlan notes quite pointedly in his book-length examination of atonement theories in the Christian Scriptures: “It does us no good to perceive Jesus as heroic if we are forced to view God as sadistic.”
• Richard Rohr, meanwhile, in his retreats and homilies, tells his hearers: “As our own Franciscan scholar John Duns Scotus taught, Jesus did not need to die. There was no debt to be paid. Jesus died to reveal the nature of the heart of God.”
• Feminist theologians, for their part, alert us that classical soteriology espouses a sadistic case of "divine child abuse."
• Wolfhart Pannenberg, a leading Lutheran theologian, notes that "Anselm's conception . . . was also taken over by the dogmatics of Protestant orthodoxy in the seventeenth century, although its primary concern is foreign to the authentically evangelical understanding of salvation."
• John T. Carroll and Joel B. Green, meanwhile, conclude their extensive study of Paul with this caution: "Paul uses an almost inexhaustible series of metaphors to represent the significance of Jesus' death, and penal substitution (at least as popularly defined) is not one of them."
• By way of measuring the pastoral impact of the atonement theory, a recent Protestant study closes with a strong cautionary note: “We believe that the popular fascination with and commitment to penal substitutionary atonement has had ill effects in the life of the church in the United States and has little to offer the global church and mission by way of understanding or embodying the message of Jesus Christ.”
Edward Schillebeeckx painstakingly researched the whole gamut of biblical references pertaining to the suffering and death of Jews (Jesus included). By way of summarizing his findings, he wrote:
God and suffering are diametrically opposed. . . . We can accept that there are certain forms of suffering that enrich our humanity. . . . However, there is an excess of suffering and evil in our history. . . . There is too much unmerited and senseless suffering. . . . But in that case we cannot look for a divine reason for the death of Jesus either. Therefore, first of all, we have to say that we are not redeemed thanks to the death of Jesus but despite it (1980:695, 724f, 729).
Whether it is Jews being tortured by perverse medical experiments in the camps or Jesus tortured on a Roman cross deliberately designed to humiliate and prolong death, there is no divine logic that can sanction or sugar-coat such horrors. God cries out with the victims and tears his garments in grief as he does so. Any other would-be G-d cannot be said to be in solidarity with innocent victims.
#2 [timer=53min] We are the people who stand in agonized prayer. That is the primary way that we exercise the glory and dominion in creation. Prayer is the ultimate image-bearing activity at the moment, and often it is very painful prayer.
This is also in tension with the Synoptics. In my Catholic upbringing, we were taught to overrate prayer and to use it to escape from the world. The Fatima promises by Our Lady are a good case of this. I offered up my daily sufferings and recited five decades of the Rosary "for the conversion of Russia." President Nixon, at the same time, had ordered saturation bombings in North Vietnam on civilian populations. Kissinger had assured him that such "war crimes" would bring the Vietcon to the bargaining table. So, I was introduced into a false piety whereby Russians were to be converted (to Roman Catholicism?). This promised to bring peace into the world. Yet, in fact, it distracted me from the fact that my own government approved the use of tiger cages by the Diem government and that the use of Agent-Orange was infecting Vietcon soldiers as well as American soldiers.
So I need to hear more about this "very painful prayer" and about how earnest prayer leads to public action. Jesus took action when John the Baptist was jailed by Herod. He did not ask his disciples to pray for the release of John. That would have been false piety. Check on the works of mercy, not one of them includes praying for the sick, praying for the imprisoned, etc.
In 1989, the wall dividing East and West Berlin was torn down. The East Berliners spontaneously came out of their apratments and began talking to friends and neighbors. There lives were suddenly open to new possibilities. Now they were permitted to visit West Berlin, to taste something of their personal liberty and their progressive social order. Now they were permitted to find employment and to relocate in the West. Within a few years, East and West Germany were again reunited into a single country, a democrary.
All of this was possible due to Gorbachev. The Carnegie Foundatation asked to help Westerners to understand the totally unexpected reforms put in place by Gorbechev. Here is what he wrote:
Following Mikhail Gorbachev’s election as general secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on April 23, 1985, his future aide Anatoly Chernyaev wrote in his diary: “There are great expectations of Gorbachev, just as there were of [one of his predecessors, Yury] Andropov. After all, what’s needed is a ‘revolution from above.’ Nothing less. Otherwise it won’t come to anything. Does Mikhail Sergeyevich [Gorbachev] understand this?”
Even the CIA had no information on Borbachev's peristroika. No one in the Blue Army and none of the childen who spoke with Our Lady had any advanced info. Thus, the conversion of Russia did take place, it was created by Gorabachev, and you can bet Catholics saying their daily rosaries had nothing to do with it.
I am carried way with his exegesis.
try Dr Mike Heiser on youtube. Or "Administrations in scripture" by TLTF.
wonderful
Heaven will be on Earth, while living. The Kingdom of Heaven is Earth.
If people can forgive each other as God planned.
God Bless NT Wright
This is amazing!!!!
Awesome!
This is a wonderful talk!
He just connect the dots from Genesis to Revelation.
Thank you.
Does he not think that God's kingdom exists now in the earth? We are His people and He walks among us working His will in the earth as is done in heaven. We are the physical people He has spiritually endowed. I fully expect to see Him where He is now in the heavenly realm after this physical life is over. What I don't hope for is another physical life but one that is fully glorified so I can be with Him forever. The lake of fire burns forever gathering its souls which is why that fire will never go out. A perfect world is not the goal, a perfect people however is. If a glorified man can live in heaven then so can I! Praise God.
Feeds the mind..
14:48
Where does the Bible speak of death as going home?
2 Corinthians 5:6-9
[6] So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, [7] for we walk by faith, not by sight. [8] Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. [9] So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.
This is not the final state of being, we will once have a new physical body and all things on earth will be made new. But there is a true sense in which if we die before that time, we got to be “at home with the Lord” and “away from the body.”
We are rightly concerned to find out about hell because we are frightened that we might end up there.
This is the first I’ve heard of Dr. Wright. His teaching really makes sense. I’m really trying to sort out eschatology as there are so many interpretations and I’ve gone in so many directions only to reach a dead end. Does Dr. Wright believe that Jesus returned in judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD as the olivet discourse describes?
So if I die today as a believer where does N T believe I will go until The Lord returns
Re: 11:00 ff., this sounds like the BioLogos Foundation, and possibly like my poem "Evolve Me, Jesus."
Amen!
he is so on point
The marvellous thing is that if nt suddenly dies he will find out how wonderfully wrong he was as he finds himself enjoying the heaven he didn't believe. in.
I've been saying this for years. That the idea of people going up to a spirit world and staying there as floating spirits for all eternity is not in the Bible. We'll be given new bodies...we'll be reigning here on the earth during the 1,000 year reign of Christ...and we'll have those same new bodies when we see the New Heavens and the New Earth.
Outstanding Biblical concepts. Spot on and I haven’t heard such truth from a Church leader ever - the Christadelphian Bible Movement have been teaching these truths since 1848 under the guidance of Dr.John Thomas, and many since.
Wow. ❤ 🙏🏻
Hi Fuller Studio, thank you for posting the NT Wright series to TH-cam. Are you able to edit the titles to reflect their proper chronology/sequence in order that they can be listened to/watched in their original order? Thank you!
Hello Scott, thank you for your question. These lectures are available in sequence on this playlist: th-cam.com/video/wIxWFBE7Djs/w-d-xo.html
Have enjoyed your teaching Mr. Wright. I can't find any sermons by anyone on Ezekiel 38 and 39. Have you ever taught on those chapters of the bible?
Amen hallelujah amen 🙏 hallelujah
What does this mean for our daily work?
Well if what he is saying is absolutely true please explain why in the discourse between Jesus and Pilot He says my kingdom is not of this WORLD and when the disciples were with Jesus at the His ascension they were looking up and saw that a cloud received Him. Heaven for me is wherever Jesus is. I just want to know like the their knew...today you will be WITH ME in paradise.
The world referred to here that of power and domination and not the earth. Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth and not the patterns of the current world. Tom Wright has teaching on this.
in bible talk "world" is not a planet most of the time, but a condition or age. Think "worldly ways" or "this current evil world" or "in the world to come" and you begin to see, think with a 1st century mind. We have all seen too much sci fi, and Capt Kirk going out to bravely explore "new worlds" where no man has gone before.. lol.
@@dannydojthe earth that is being inherited by the meek…are the kingdoms of the world that pass to the saints in heaven. “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!””
Revelation 11:15
“Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’”
Daniel 7:27
"Israel Only" adds way more context, and makes more sense of the biblical texts as a whole.
Ok but sooooooo many questions- Like what about the rapture??? What about near death experiences and ppl seeing Jesus / going to heaven??? What about the tribulation?? I’m so confused as to how this fits this narrative.
Thanks for annihilating bad rapture theology and so making sense of eschatology, Rev Wright. There is one return of Christ, and that's when the rapture will occur, and all will see his coming. Nothing like the Left Behind series.
He asks why Americans always ask about hell. We’ve been taught that billions will go there. Why is he not talking about it?
Hell = Sheol = the grave. It’s a theory worth studying even if one doesn’t agree.
Also, the dead in Christ are resurrected at his coming in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18
Which of his books teaches this???
Surprised by hope
Amen
love this... 12:21:00
the resurrection of jesus forms the model as well as the means for the future renewal of all creation...
*_what god did for jesus at easter is what he will do for all his creation in the end_*
and the resurrection of jesus ... translates both into what god will do for the whole creation and what god of course will do for his people in particular
creation will be in one sense the same yet radically different, it will be the same material
it will not be a new creatio ex nihilo, it will be a creoxio ex veterae, a creation out of the old, as it was with the body of jesus
it will be the same material yet utterly transformed so there will be no more corruption no more decay
how will god do this, by the spirit as the wind blew over the waters of creation...
46:18:00
...to the renewal of the whole creation under the wise sovereignty of jesus, a sovereignty which all those in the messiah are called to share
so the climax in romans 8 is not about us going to heaven...
*_it's about god's plan to renew the whole creation, god is going to do for the whole creation at last what he did for jesus at easter_*
Well then what did Jesus mean when he said to the good thief "This day you will be with me in paradise"! It sounds to me like you are saying we will be returning to earth even if renewed . We are promised a new earth, however not only an new earth but also a new heaven !. So there must be some context for life "beyond" the life here and now. We are working for the kingdom of God which is with us 'today'! Yes. But it doesn't seem plausible even by your argument that there will not be place that we understand as "heaven" or paradise. I do love your notion of the 'groaning' . But I still think there is a heaven -- An experience of God after our work on earth is done ! It is the 'finale'!
a misunderstanding in church tradition has the thief saying "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Now the original greek had no punctuation markers like the english and was all written in capitals with no spaces, So translators used their (sometimes biased) knowledge to the verse as it was widely accepted and inserted the comma after "truth." That made it a promise with a timetable emphasized.
If you shift the comma one word to the right, then you get "I tell you the truth TODAY, you will be with me in paradise." This makes it a statement of urgency or strength emphasized but no time factor given. (Just as Wright says we believers will all be with Jesus in Paradise and as 1Thes4:16 says "we will thereafter always be with him." The dead rise etc, all arrive at once perhaps)
The new earth and new heaven follow the 1000 yr period after Jesus returns and we have been ruling with Jesus all that time, at end of that, after the evil one has drawn many more into one last try to overthrow God. The 1000 yrs is like the final skim of the melted refined metal in the crucible, the last impurities removed and that is what 1Cor15:28 means when Jesus will hand it all back to God (at end of the 1000yrs,) so that God can be all in all." Original plan of Eden existence, temporarily upset by the devils rebellion, be back on track, mission accomplished. Do you read in Mathew.. "the meek will inherit the earth?" and someone else said "the earth was made for man." Perhaps the new earth will be ginormous so there will be no overcrowding??? Just saying.
Excellent ❣️
I agree with a lot of his ideas but this idea that the coming kingdom will be on THIS earth is troubling. The Bible seems to me to be very clear about this earth being reserved for fire in 2 Peter 3. And often speaks of a new earth. This new earth is even described to be without a sea. God originally created this earth to be habitable, but the opening of the fountains of the great deep in the time of Noah covered of this earth in water and seemingly created the oceans. Any thoughts?
There is a lot to unpack with your comments but very good and fair questions. First off when it talks about the new heavens and the new earths it uses the Greek word Kainos which means restored or redeemed as opposed to neos which mens brand new like a new born baby. Also as far as the sea goes take a close look at the design pattern of how seas are used throughout the Bible. It’s often used as a stock symbol of chaos or disorder. Therefore if there is no “sea” there will be no more chaos or disorder. Hope that gives you a good start to your searching. I have found with my journey of following Jesus that I have grown the normal by wrestling with Gods word as well as wrestling with commentaries from folks such as NT, Tim Mackie and Shane J Wood to name a few. God bless brother and I wish you well on your journey. Keep asking questions and searching Gods word.
I was wondering about this too (new heavens/earth, this earth will pass away, etc.). I’ll be discussing this with my pastor (he reads NT Wright books). Lots to think on, that’s for sure! 🙏🏻
34:03
This is an interesting subject. It appears to be complex, but it isn't. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 does explain how we will meet Jesus when he comes, in the air. in the cloud.
Jesus taught us that the kingdom of heaven is within you, here on earth. But in the book of Acts, Jesus does say that he is coming back in the clouds and take us to the actual heaven, the capitol. In the book of John, he tells us he is going to heaven to prepare us a place and that he wants us to go and be there with him. What makes all this confusing is that after the earth has been cleansed and recreated God will bring us back to the earth. Revelation 20 and 21 explain this.
You possibly miss the cloud of saints who return with Jesus when he comes to start the clean up. We will be "with him always after" is the continuation of 1Thes4 you quote. So meeting him in the air and always then being with him implies this. And elsewhere we are said to be glorified with him and reign with him with rods of iron, over the nations. Sounds like the clean up. Then comes the new Jerusalem and new heaven and new earth. Gods Edenic vision complete.
Ok but that intro music
Why say "if" as though you don't know Jesus was raised. Take him at his word! When you pray do you say, "God if you exist, bless this food." How rude! No one shall receive anything from him if they do not trust in him.
This really spoils most funerals for me, and quite a few hymns. I keep hearing the platonism jumping out at me. The resurrection of the dead is not new teaching. It’s in our creeds! (Nondenominational churches aren’t reading the creeds anymore) In my 50 years I had only one pastor teach specifically on the resurrection. It was more like a sidebar- by the way did you know that heaven isn’t what you think? -pastors don’t preach this because it is hard for our modern minds to imagine. It’s easier to imagine ourselves as a disembodied spirit, therefor they can save more, fill the pews, if they don’t focus on it. No wonder our youth are leaving the church. When they actually read their bibles for themselves it sounds nothing like the little bits they heard in church. We need to repent and preach /teach the entire story.
Exactly, but not from creeds, they are more man made ideas. Best straight from scripture and with help of tools to look at word meanings in original language.
Being that N. T. Wright is a Biblical Scholar I was hoping he would use the Word in the manuscripts of Passover & Not Easter.
Well he is speaking English and the English word is Easter
2 Corinthians 5:8
To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.
Is he talking about the millennium reign of Christ on Earth or is he talking about Revelation 21 and 22 with the New Jerusalem.
A lot is missing in what he is saying. Is he talking about the Millennium?
Is NT Wright Catholic? Or Born Again/Protestant Christian????
He is an Anglican bishop.
As I read Scripture, the BoC is made up of believers since Paul's conversion, whereby; He,Jesus Christ, for now over 2,000 years is building His body, some of which are sons of God ~Rom 8 until'Rapture'. I read, my'citizenship' is in heaven and that all my blessings are in heavenly places. I also read the whole of creation groans, waiting for restoration by the sons of God (mermbers of BoC?) Rom 8. From this I deuce my eternal vocation, after the BSoC will be in the heavenly realm as the one new man with a body fashioned like Jesus'. I do think Israel and Disciples/Apostles are destined,eternally to/for their earthly vocation, participating w/ God in restoration, thereof. Am I wrong? Please advise. ~BillR
When someone says your "citezenship is in heaven" then you can also take the message as a promise that it is prepared for you, held at moment in heaven, and will come to you from heaven. It does not automatically mean you have to go to it. I believe we will indeed go there at rapture, to glorification, for ordering and weapons practice, before returning as that "cloud of saints" that returns with the lion of Judah, our head and CinC. To kick butt and take names as Bob Wassung says.
What is N T’s view on the millennium
All people are the people of God.
God is not a person.
Ee
Thanks
Does N stand for Nathaniel?
Nicholas, assuming you mean the N in N.T. Wright.
"Heaven," where God's throne is, has been the home of all of the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints, in their pre-resurrection body. When Paul's rapture takes place, the church will be resurrected and will then spend the entire 70th Week (7 years) in heaven. It is where our homes Jesus has prepared for us is. During the time we judge, Christ's millennial reign of one thousand years, there is very little doubt that we will travel back and forth between earth and heaven.
It is only after the great, white throne judgment that this earth will disappear, and God will create a new earth. Then the heavenly New Jerusalem will descend to the new earth.
Where is He building our new mansions then , here on earth ??
I agree that the goal is not to escape the nasty awful material world to some celestial vacation from responsibility. The focus of eschatology is about bringing Heaven and Earth together in a new covenant where God indwells His people and through them dwells with man.
Jesus did precisely that at His parousia in A.D. 70. The language about a new heaven and new earth is Covenant/Temple language.
The Temple represented both Heaven and Earth. The old temple fell, the body of Christ is the new Temple, City and Kingdom. The Romans destroyed the old ones.
But people do die; it's just that we're all living in the presence of God, whether in or out of the body.
Well i if read the Bible correct the future is bad for the wicked and good for righteous.😊
Romans 8 never said that righteousness could never be attained by the people of God in their present bodies of inherently sinful nature ; they could attain righteousness in the very same bodies of flesh and blood through the Spirit of Jesus dwelling in them so that they could put to death the misdeeds of their fleshly bodies by living according to the Spirit and not to their own flesh. Resurrection was the regeneration or renewal from the old self to the new man so that the righteous status could be attained. See Romans 8:10-11, “But if Christ is in you, you body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness…”, Romans 8:13-14, “For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who were led by the Spirit of God are sons of God…”. Righteousness is attained by living our life which is led by the indwelling Spirit and not by the sinful nature of our body so as to put to death the misdeeds of the body. The focus is on the power and the working of the Spirit in transforming our life so as to attain our righteousness by faith through God’s grace. The doctrine never suggests the removal of the inherent sinful nature of the body by way of renewing or reconstructing the biological nature of the body. What “the creation” was waiting in eager expectation and was groaning in the pains of childbirth was the Parousia of Jesus, the life-giving Spirit who would come to dwell in the people of God to give them their resurrection and their inheritance of the Kingdom of God (Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem), Hebrews 12:22-28.
Romans 8:19 for the whole of Creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God .
Fulfillment of the Our Father : Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven .
St
I am the ressurektion and the life. He that believeeth in me though he were death, yet shallhe live and who soever liveth and believeth in me shal never die. Comforting words of love for Martha, when she was mourning over her brother. His vieuw is shared by jehovawitnesses. They also do not believe that your soul is going to Jesus after you die.
Lion 🦁