How to Make EPIC Pop/Funk Brass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
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One thing you (and most people) miss is, no horn section plays EXACTLY together, and EXACTLY on the beat. Fix that and it'll sound 10X better, and more realistic.
That is why in a decent library, you might find two or three different alto sax samples available along with other sectional instruments.
Exactly what I was thinking, it bothered me for some reason. 😂
Play every part separately to make it feel like multiple people playing and don’t quantize to much.
Интуитивно я так делал даже с ритм гитарами( удар по струнам). Результат - под мои сверх сырые демонстрационные записи ,а в Украине не было дегег на нормальную домашнюю студию,все вставали и нпчинали танцевать. Сейчас я в Германии,может что-то выпущу,ведь здесь есть музыкальная индустрия.
better late than on time or before ! :D
Woah, we use to work together at an adult novelty store. glad to see you're still going for your dream nate!
>>Woah
Great video, love seeing how other composers do their thing. As a horn player I have a couple of suggestions to make it sound even better.
First, don’t make every note the same volume… dynamics change in horn phrases just like they do in human speech. For example, I would decrease the velocity of the last two notes in measure 17, make the first note velocity about 70 and the second note about 100. Of course, adjust to taste as needed, but the volume increase into the downbeat of measure 18 will make it sound more realistic.
Second, The articulation in measure 18 sounds a little bit unnatural. The next to last note (G) in that a measure sound be closer in duration to the A that precedes it, or it should be as short as the other short notes in the measure. Right now the duration is a little sloppy from a tight horn section performance perspective.
One more thing might be to split this track into three tracks and pan them to give a more natural stereo effect that would then be even better once you apply the widening. Put the highest voice in the middle, and the other two slightly left and right, I’d go with a 9:00 and 3:00 panning.
Great stuff, thanks for sharing, I hope my advice is received with the good intentions I have. :)
I would say this video is usefull as a 1st step, for the "mixing" part of it (comp, other fxs and so on), but yes, personnaly I try to blend various libraries and after a 1st sketch with an ensemble I tend to split the instruments, doing divisi and also "humanizing". Regarding the imagers/stereo spreaders we have to be careful with them as many have the tendency to induce some phase issues when they're pushed a little bit too much.
If you had quite different velocities then you'd have to compress more. It doesn't quite make sense for me
Thank you!!!! Your videos are always so informative about why you make the decisions. Even though i want a slightly different sound on my horns, i have a pretty good idea how to achieve it now!
Insane stuff. I just heard the preview and all I can say is you're a genius
The biggest tell as a former horn player I hear are the samples sound too perfect. This is an issue with a lot of plug in sounds. No two horns are pitch perfect nor is any one horn pitch perfect all the way through. There also needs to be subtle variations of attack times.
I'm no horn player, but that was my first thought too. I've used attack time variation - works great - haven't tried pitch variation, but I will now!
this, and to add as a current trumpet player who makes and produces funk myself, I've found generally when you have everything at max velocity, that really tends to make it sound odd/unrealistic. I know Nathan had mostly full velocity stuff here... but to my ear it sounds like you said-too perfect, even for a big shout-y section
For Latin music, I have tried mixing horn libraries. I use Logic’s Horns and Sessions horns. Since each library sound different I have achieved good results… just my two cents
Some brass sample libraries do have "round robin" samples, meaning the engines varies differences that were recorded when you play. Spitfire and Orchestral Tools make brass libraries like that.
Can't agree more... the imperfections are the only things that matter...🤓👍
useful tutorial and for something I'm doing a lot with the style of music I make! I still think the velocities all being near max does sound a little too perfect, but the plugin chain was great. I also usually wind up scooping a little out usually between the 3-6k range to mitigate some of the excessive brightness, but I like the flavor of bumping the mids a bit that you used here too.
Adding distortion to horns! What a great tip, that is the “dirt’ I’ve been looking for. Great video!
Thank you for your great brass processing tutorial. I have always wanted to guidance on doing so.
U are a real G for posting great quality information!!!
Why no harmonies In that brass section?
Very helpful, thanks for making this! Do you have an equivalent video for midi strings? And is the type of processing you would do on a Brass Bus/Stack?
This is exactly the video I needed today. 🤩✌🏻
How about a tutorial on that Bass! I also use the Rickenbacker but have never got it to sound like that! That was the first thing that stuck out to me in the preview lol
I do all of the stuff you mention except for distortion which I'm going to try next time. Thanks for the video! BTW Detuning also works well for creating a convincing brass part.
Hi Nathan. I would see if adding some predelay of reverb might make it even better.
Have you tested Acoustic samples VHorns Brass section?. I am thinking of buying it.
You talked for a moment about automating swells on longer notes as a feature within Seesion Pro Horns and this is the first I have heard of this. Can you suggest a source for setting up this parameter?
incredible tutorial
Loved this tutorial. What if you used stock Logic Plug ins and replicated tone for us who don't have a bunch of plug ins? Thanks!
Definitely a much better sound. But i think it'd 'feel' even more realistic if there was some discrepancy/offset (Read: Human timing inconsistencies) between the players of the section Having everything 'Hit' at exactly the same moment not only is not possible in real-life, but I think it sacrifices some of the natural bulk and width by being too homogenised.
Just an opinion, of course.
Awesome, great example of effective compression. I think a slight nudge in pitch on one or two of those may make it more realistic (or less perfect). Way better than I’d ever do though.
Really good video ... well done and helpful!!
Good video bro! The glissando of the last note with which articulation is it done. 🔥
Can you do a video on how to use and make changes to session horns pro?
Peak level is not LUFS, that's why it's louder. The overall sound is indeed fuller with less spikes because of compression, so peak levels don't even necessarily measure loudness, it just shows where your audio is peaking on a certain section.
Awesome, thank you!
THANK YOU!!!
Big thanks!
The effect chain is very interesting(adding distortion on horn seesion,cool!),but to my ear,it sounds wierd when you turn on the stereo plugin,maybe there's some phasing issues?
감사합니다 좋은 강의~
Love from India 🌪💜
What horns combi did you use in Session Horns?
Learning a lot from your videos....
Bought Producer Accelerator on the July 4th sale! Can't wait to get rolling in it...does the course cover how to do the producer signature neck bob and stank face? 😜
Bro you are the best
Hey Nathan, I absolutely love your videos, they help me a TON when I need motivation while creating my own music. One thing I wanted to know, is, according to you, how important is it to socialise with fellow musicians and jam with other musicians. Do you think its really necessary and does it have any benefit to one's ability to create their own music? Once again, love your content man!
I am not nathan,but yes you have alot to gain from hanging around other people who do the same thing as you,today it takes more than talent to move up the ladder,if nobody knows that you're a good musician it will take a whole lot of effort for you to get any sort of gig.cheers
Hey Nate, love the video adn the explanations of everything...
My question is how did u get that long fall in there? I cant seem to find that, the falls are very short in Session Horns... did u have to do some manipulation to achieve that or...???
Btw, even tho it seems like everybody in the comments aren't really happy about the "realistic-ness" of the horns, but trust me I get it... U cant have too many tuning & timing discrepancies in the song(s) with everything else being in perfect tuning because sensitive ears like ours, tend to cringe at it, and it takes out of that "enjoying the song vibe" (especially being a gtr player ugghh smh) and I also find that with Session Horns, if the velocity isn't at the max you don't get that initial attack that the horns are known for, and it sounds really dull too... I don't know why that is but I find myself doing the same thing with the velocities.. It is what it is! Good Stuff Bro!!
I feel like it has less to do with the sound processing and more of a timing, pitch imperfection, arrangement, breath control, and varied articulation issues with brass samples. If you can make all of those fit more of a realistic/how someone would actually play the horn feel, then they instantly sound a lot better. I find just fitting the horns in a proper arrangement with realistic parts that sound good and would be something played by a real horn section, sounds super good. Most of the time, people are trying to fit strange brass riffs in a song or arrangement that sounds like crap from a melodic or chord standpoint, therefore sounding fake.
Um sounds like it's synthesized presumably because the timings of the parts are identical to within a millisecond and they are all at identical velocities. Which would be a weird thing to do so I'm left wondering...why?
why i prefers not processed version. sounds much more alive and real.
Looks like you simply rode every note velocity to 127, so you're triggering the sforzando (swell) sample on every note? What about using the key switching in Session horns to make it play actual staccato as well.?
Re The arrangement...playing in unison is fine but subtle harmony immediately adds realism. And loosen your quantize a little...
Hey man - Nice Video! This is good stuff - I also learned a trick that also helps. Back at 3:26 in the video, it's sitting on the note I'm referring to. Taking out the note before it and extending to where you took it out, then setting the grid to 32 or 64 depending on tempo, you can automate, start your pitch bend point a half or full step below and with a fast slide to 0. gives it a natural bend like say Chicago, Tower of Power. Neat trick - Thought I would share - Love what your doing! - SH
Unfortunately the library in question sounds synthetic most of the time, no matter what one does.
So
Also i think it's also writing with the capability of the vst. 😀.
Cool!
What do u think about the newest VALVES PRO from Native Instruments? This can fit for Pop/Funk Brass?
Actually haven't tried it yet. I have so many libraries I'm already not even using everything I have haha
another great vid. I like session horns, but have found the sound a little flat without processing. Wouldn't have thought about the drive/distortion on horns -nice. Just curious, did you add the extended tails on the notes for the smoother blends/not transitions, or did you just play them that way?
If they are slurred I'll make sure they overlap a bit!
@@NathanJamesLarsen did you manually slightly extend the tails to overlap in the MIDI editor? Sounds great
the distortion!!!!!!!!! brass is hard man
This comes handy since I am doing a Mario Kart style OST for an indie game and I am happy with the composition but not with the horns.
God Bless You
Please keep your spoken vocals & music at same peak levels.
What is the first compressor you have there? Then later, what Vintage EQ is that??
Logic's stock compressor and Logic's stock Neve console emulation
I still just think EW Pop Brass sounds way better. I wish NI did a library at that quality!
nice tip
Do you really quantize those horns arrangements??
true
hoe doe jij mee alda festivals of optredens
8:07 im watching this on my phone. Once you turned on that plugin the sound got all weird on my phone speakers. Phasing issues?
Wow weird. The dry audio is totally OK in the comparasing at the end.
Could you check on your phone also maybe? Im quite curious why this is happening :P
Do you happen to know if this is actually a problem?
ken you made a video about it Voor Mij
Hey man. I think you really should do a "How to" make brass articulations. All of your processing won't do much without that knowledge ❤
Sorry but they sound like a Yamaha keyboard……
So true 😂😂😂
Who cares?
I actually dig that sound. It sounds so good for city pop like music
@@LittleRichard1988a lot of us care
Most of the people typing dismissive comments are missing the point ( not to mention how rude and insulting it is especially when someone puts in
all their time to make it sound as good as possible ). Although it's true that nothing sounds as good as the real thing many people doing music as a
hobby or even composing stock music can't afford to hire session musicians. Session Horns Pro is still better than Halion Sonic, Sampletank or even
the Band library in Kontakt Factory. You could make that argument about any instrument. Another reason for composing everything with midi synthesized
instruments is for convenience and it also saves a lot of time if your doing loads of tracks on mass in such a short space of time.
So another words you doing most piano roll post editing, compared to live playing. Do you truly feel that this is the natural way music flows or is it a bit more robotic?
brooo what brass plugins did you use ?
Session Horns Pro by Native Instruments.
Basically nice video however your horns sound like sampled horns. I am a saxophone player and also have done plenty of horn arrangements using all samples when I don't have time to pull out my saxes or with all real instruments to a combination of both. What you need to do is manually create anomalies in each part - timing, pitch etc... you can use Melodyn if you have it to make things go faster if you render to audio. Also that fall doesn't anything like a real section. Keep on working at it and listen to real horn sections, if you can get your hands on multitracks of a section you'll see what I'm talking about.
🙅🏻♂️🔥🙅🏻♂️🔥
1:09 the music tho
After fake taxi comes fake horn.
wat I me wil zien laten
Is this video playing at 1.5x speed?
8:10 .. coulda said... here's ... width... it.. eheh
Sorry to break it to you but your horns don’t sound realistic at all before or post
I was going to say the same thing, sounds like a Yamaha par from the 80’s
@@davidmarshall5665 exactly
@@davidmarshall5665 80s Yamaha keyboards used FM synthesis. But Halion's sampled
brass sections sound like Yamaha Tyros or Motif because many of Halion's instruments are
based on Yamaha arranger/workstations from the 2000s. But Native Instruments record their
own instrument samples from session musicians from around the world.
Yes but not all of us can afford to hire a brass band or have the ability to play a brass instrument let alone possess a brass instrument.
To most people this will sound like a brass band and they won't be saying "this sounds like a Casio keyboard" or even tweak that it was
done on a computer as people who don't do music production don't even know what Kontakt is. Even on TV broacasts I find it difficult to
tell the difference from a sample library or the real thing but with many 90s TV broadcasts I can tell if the sounds are from a particular
sound module or drum machine but with VST instruments you can't do that.
hello i like very well like me follow u can arrange times make difference song have more power in song
It's a matter of opinion and taste. The horn section he's using here sound way to unrealistic and synth sounding. I to have Session Horns Pro but use them sparingly. In my humble opinion I much prefer the Swam Saxophones and the Trumpet v3 & Trombone v3 which walk all over the horns being presented here. The Swam Trumpets are pretty nice as well. The horns being used here sound like the ones you'd find in most synth sound modules. Just sayin'
Or you can hire me to play real trumpet for you!
i don't hear any differences
Would've been nice to have a sound comparison with Logic's Studio Horns. In your example NIs Session Horns Pro sound very, very synthetic (almost 80s) I must say. I can't even tell what instruments these are supposed to be (3x Sax?) and processing doesn't fix it. Further more an "arrangement" in octaves surely doesn't help to improve things. Why not chords in an appropriate, three or four-tone harmony arrangement? After all you're the guy who says (100% rightfully) that nothing beats a good arrangement! Sorry, but you've made much better tutorials than this.
I mean - that 80s pop / funk vibe is what I was personally going for in this track. That's fine if you don't like that sound - but the principles are similar across genre.
As far as arrangement in octaves - this is a very common practice with horn writing... I wanted a very strong emphasis on the melody and in this case - stacking harmonies above or below would detract from what I was ultimately wanting. Trust me - if I wanted to make it complex, I'm more than capable of doing that - but throwing the kitchen sink at an arrangement isn't the marker of a great arrangement.
Again - you don't need to like it - can't please everyone, nor am I attempting to. I make the music I get excited about. That's not everyone's cup of tea and that's okay, and there's even a lesson there - you will not make music that everyone will love. Some people will hate it.
Hopefully you'll like the next one better.
@@NathanJamesLarsen Thanks for your answer. Ultimately the horn arrangement of your song production sounds synthetic and not natural / real. If that's what you like that's fine, but you wrote REALISTIC in the title of the video, that's why I expected something different. Why did you not use LOGIC's Studio Horns? I think with the a good arrangement and articulation they sound very impressive. Would like to hear your opinion since you always recommend to use the DAWs plugins first.
@@dennisschuetzeband you just broke nigga get your money up, not your funny up
@@dennisschuetzeband I could always make a future video using Logic's horns.
And when talking about DAW plugins - I'm referring and always have referred to effects not sounds, and I've made that very clear every time I talk about stock plugins that I am differentiating between effects and sound libraries.
You looked way to deep into this video boss
…Mkay
Still too digital. Doesn't feel natural. Not airy and analog. Still sounds like a video game unfortunately. Maybe add saturation artifact in there somewhere to the mix bus
It still doesn't convince me. It still sounds like a cheap Casio.
Hey, you should change the name of the video "How to Make EPIC Pop/Funk Brass” for ✅How to make your brass bigger with plugins. Fake tittle.
You talk about making epic brass while you go 100% quantization with your midi? My dude you need to rethink music production or at least your video titles.
Horns are awful, sound like an 80’s par preset. You need to stop smoking and listen to that again.
You seem nice.
@@NathanJamesLarsen I am and I’m honest too, I have seen loads of your videos but this is trash. The horns sound no better than the presets, it’s constructive criticism and not an attack on you, your personality or your skills and judging by your retort you’re obviously upset about my comment.
@@davidmarshall5665 Criticism is constructive when you offer helpful solutions. You could have suggested some tips for working with Session Horns Pro, or offered a more realistic alternative like Sample Modelling Brass or VHorns.
Also, your posts definitely come across as aggressive and not nice. Try using less vitriolic words like "awful", "trash", and don't make it personal by saying "you need to stop smoking and listen to that again."
@@prevolition are you telling me I can’t have an opinion that I absolutely stand by?? Criticism doesn’t have to constructive either according to the definition.
@@davidmarshall5665 Your words, not mine.
Those sound pretty fake to me. I truly believe the only way to achieve this is to at least have a real trumpet.
What's wrong with hobbyists making the best of what they have? Not everyone has a trumpet lying around
and I completely disagree that it's not possible to do everything in the box or the notion that midi backing
tracks are a bad thing. Some of the orchestral libraries such as Albion One and Angry Brass pull off realism
far better than this library. This video proves that it's possible to pull off convincing orchestral music entirely
with top quality sample libraies and you would have heard libraries like this without even realizing it on loads
of TV programs over the last decade.
th-cam.com/video/f-PnVWkmBAk/w-d-xo.html
Poor composition! Sorry
Gettting all excited about a dreadful tune..yuk
Inevitably many others will think the exact same about your music. Just consider that.
No need to be so rude about it!
Obviously you dont know what you are doing if you are compressing a drum machine