The very second it goes from "lights and taxes" to "lights or taxes" you have entered the deep end of pool and are getting weaker by the second. İn the state where İ live, unpaid wages for all work completed by an employee is legally considered to be an unsecured loan from the employee to the employer. The employee is considered to be an unsecured creditor. Vacations are never owed. Bonuses, even if they told you differently, are nrver owed. Where you get into trouble is when this piles up.oİt is undetstandable that an employee might do thinhs to help a struggling business hold on. This is even commendable. But if it gets out of hand, be careful and mever forget that your place is at the very back of the line and you are not goong to see your money again. Why does all this matter,? Because if the corp you are working for goes belly up, you should have a fair understanding of the laws in your state. when iit comes to dissolving a corporation. By knowing them you can protect yourself to some extent - at least minimuze loss For example, İ once allowed an employer to fall 8 weeks behind in paychecks. - So, in the event of a bankrupcy, with whatever undistributed funds remain creditors are made whole in this order: 1. Federal agencies (taxes, etc.) 2.State Agencies (tax, etc.) 3. Secured Creditors 4. Unsecured Creditors The issue is that most companies do not declare bankruptcy with a ton of available cash. İf you are owed back wages, kiss that money goodbye. Also, if you're want to contest anythong, you must act very fast. İ had a piece of personal eqiipment the company took and apparently been misplaced. By the time İ realized it was missing, the company had been dissolve, all available funds distributed, All in less than 5 days. İn short, there nothing left to sue as the company np longer existed. So, if you agree to delay receipt of your paycheck. After losing this money İ contacted my doctor and had the large , flashing red "SUCKER" sign surgically removed from my forehead.
That's code for "The truck is worth more now, then when the buyer signed the purchase agreement. We will try everything we can to void the contract we signed..."
That was my thought. Next thing they will get a call saying come pick up your wrecked vehicle. No way would I go through with that. But I suppose it’s also possible that the dealership is counting on them backing out so they can sell it for more.
Seems like either something is wrong with the vehicle and the want to offload the risk or they are trying to trick the customer into backing out of a deal made before the dealerships started tacking on the “market adjustment” pricing of 5-40k over msrp they are now because the know it will be on the lot soon. Heard a lot of reports about dealerships tacking the additional market adjustment fee for the pre ordered broncos that were orders in 2019 and 2020 but not delivered till late 2021 after the market really shifted in the favor of dealers
@@herroldj Its the latter. My boss regularly buys new vehicles for his buisiness and has been saying for months that cars are a huge item right now because of chip shortages, and OLDER models are even worth more than when they left the lot, some by like 10k. Dealer probably found someone who offered him 10-20k more than the original buyer and is now trying to weasel out of the original deal.
This guy needs to file a complaint with the AG and request that an audit of the police book be performed. I bet a whole lot of shady practices will be discovered.
If the dealership attorney is watching this, he would be calling the manager: _"Shut up, stop making the legal hole deeper."_ Now the state will know why he has to "Keep the lights on."
I wouldn't want to buy a car from a dealer that's circling the drain, and I'd certainly not advance any money to a dealer that's on the verge of bankruptcy as this one seems to be.
And a lot of them are treating this like a real estate bidding war. there are shortages of cars and high demand, people with cash willing to pay big mark-ups to get ahead of the line.
That raises a truly interesting question that Steve does not cover. What would happen if the person paid for the car before delivery and the dealership went belly up after receiving the payment but before the car was delivered to them? Presumably GM would not deliver a vehicle to a bankrupt entity, or is it legally required to do so? If not I assume the buyer is still on the hook for the amount he's paid and that he would join the list of creditors seeking recovery in the bankruptcy proceedings.
@@robintrehaeven6800 There are two separate transactions involved, one between the customer and the dealer and the other between the dealer and GM. If the dealer goes bankrupt before the truck is delivered then GM is within their rights to not deliver the truck to the dealer unless the dealer pays them first. The customer has no recourse except bankruptcy court. They have a contract with the dealer not GM. What's more customers are going to be at the back of the line. First call on the assets goes to the employees of the dealer. Employees are entitled to any back pay they are owned and then depending on the state pay for some minimum layoff notice period. After them comes the secured lenders, the banks. Unsecured creditors are going to get pennies on the dollar if they get anything at all.
They're making gas powered vehicles against the law through regulations. Cars will likely be much more expensive in the future. Get as much car as you can afford now. Several large manufacturers are quietly telling their factory workers to not count on employment building cars past 2025.
I can see why this dealership is in trouble they have terrible business practices and its causing them to lose their customers. Nobody in their right mind should do business there
They probably want to lose this customer after realizing they can make more money. They're in all likelihood hoping the hoops they're making the original buyer go through will cause him to back out.
It's an obvious LIE; They just want to sell their Yukon to someone else for more $...They signed the agreement, then the MSRP went UP, due to roaming shortages on cars.
Tell us it's a bad time to buy a car without telling ... These dealers are shooting themselves in the foot. They'll eventually be faced with a buyer's market and their good will tank will be empty
Yup, it'll turn around on them HARD. If anything, all these examples are going to be collected and listed against them in arguments for why car dealers should not have a monopoly on sales and direct buys should exist for those who want it.
Expect a massive backslash againts the laws which don't allow manufacturers to sell directly, dealirships days are numbered...and car sellers being more hated than telemarketers best find another Jobs.
It's ALREADLY starting...my dad CALLED it he sold for 20+ years. the VERY next DAY I found the first link... then my dad 110% agreed. th-cam.com/video/zhmr8w-A7YQ/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/P0aogtJYA64/w-d-xo.html
Wouldn't insure something I haven't taken possession of, nevermind haven't seen its condition. And the deposit is a guarantee that a deal is locked in with you, and can't be offered to anyone else until you refuse. Also they can't sell you a car that dealer hasn't even taken possession of to begin with. This dealer sounds shady. They might not be doing things legally and by the book if these are the facts.
Actually they can twist the law...if the manufacture has allocated the vehicle to the dealer they consider that to be in their inventory because the vehicle is coming directly to them an no other dealer can take it without their agreement. When I bought my GMC truck a few years ago they did not have the truck yet but it shows up in their inventory to sell...took 3 weeks to get it in. Lexus and other foreign cars do the same thing....you cannot order a car but they will find you one that is being built and once it is released to a dealer they can play the shuffle game between dealers,
@@walterwhite2270 Still would not make the first payment (beyond the deposit) until I have the keys in hand and the vehicle working and in the condition I was promised.
@@walterwhite2270 Actually they must take possession before it can be placed in inventory. The dealer as part of the contract can demand a 100% down payment (if they really want to be that way) but once a contract is signed and the terms are accepted they cannot change those terms without the permission of the other party. This is a case of the dealer trying to change the terms. BY THE WAY. no bank or credit union will issue the loan until you can receive the vehicle (You can complete the loan paperwork, and have everything set up and even the check is issued, but the loan starts the day the product is received and the check presented)
Exactly, they expect you to pay in full for a vehicle you don't have use of. You should be able to charge them a daily rental fee and they must carry insurance like any car rental does.
My theory. The dealer has someone willing to pay way over sticker. They where hoping the buyer would have said screw you cancel the sale. Then they would be free to sell it to the new buyer with a huge mark up....But instead he went public.. the dealership screwed themself over
Giving this purchaser an "exception" implies that they have done this practice in the past and are still doing it. Have any other of their customers complained of this practice?
NO, because before the car shortage, they never could make an "exception". Now, the price on popular models is going UP, the minute it hits the lot...Person ordered a highly desirable model, and they can now sell it for more...In other words, the dealer "Wan't their cake, and to eat it too"
Back in 1988 I bought my First and Only New Truck. A Ford Ranger, Extra cab, Longer bed, Various packages including Cruise with tilt wheel, Towing package, cooling package, 4 cylinder, 5 speed standard trans, Dual Gas Tanks, etc. Special Order, so it took a month, and I gave them $1000 down (total $12,800) The Salesguy (who was the Owner's Son) called and told me it was here and to come pick it up. He seemed as excited as I was. Wife and I made the 40 mile trip to the dealer, with all the Credit Union Loan paperwork in hand. Next thing we know we are in an office with someone else, (Actually it ended up being several someone else's) Pressured to finance with them, even though already had full approval. Next they insisted that I provide them with Proof of Insurance on the New Truck. (My then -carrier gave you 2 weeks to notify them) Called the Agent and got it covered. He offered to Fax the Proof Paperwork to the Dealer. Nope! I needed to make the trip down to pick up the paperwork, and bring it back. 60 miles South for a total 120 mile, 3 hour trip. Got back and More pressure. Finally the Salesguy made it through the crowd, called over his father, and magically the paperwork finally fell into place. I went by the place about 2 months later, just to say "Hi" the the Good Salesguy. He pulled me out to a corner of the lot, and in privacy apologized for the hassle we had to go through. Then went on to explain what had been going on. Seems a couple people had come in, spotted the truck, and claimed it was Exactly what they were needing, and wanting. They were willing to pay the Full Sticker Price in Cash Immediately. It seems the Team had been trying to get me to back out of the sale, (and they would have gotten to keep the $1000 deposit too), so they could sell the truck to either one of the new buyers. His Father was NOT Pleased. And Neither was He. He passed me a couple of freebies, including a Dinner coupon for a local famous restaurant. Those guys ended up not staying too long with that dealership.
The last time I tried to buy a ford they tried to pressure me into financing with them despite me having all the finances worked out already. What really sunk it for them is they wouldn't tell me the length or the interest rate until I agreed. They just kept assuring me that the payments were lower and that they "got me a better deal". When I started to walk out they finally gave me the details on their financing. Yes the payments were lower, and even the interest (barely) but it was for 3 more years than my loan. In the long run it would have cost me far more to take their deal.
I was looking for a new truck few months ago, found a truck that matches my needs, dealer said I have to pay for it that day, then wait three months before they're done showing it on the show room floor. I was shocked. Took my business else where, found what I wanted the next day and drove it off that lot same day.
I would have told them either I take MY car off the lot today, or the Dealer PAYS ME $1,000.00 per HOUR (or portion of) it sits in their showroom so that other people can put their grubby mitts all over MY CAR...
I agree with you odbo, three months of people getting in it, their kids, and test drives ... no thank you. Worse yet, if the title is in your name at that point - in a lot places, (at least in my state) you as the title holder would ultimately be liable for any damage or injuries that resulted from the dealership's continued use of the vehicle in that you authorized the dealer to use the vehicle - as the use is commercial, even if you did bind liability, unless it include the commercial usage rider, you're on the hook for the entire cost of such injury and damage.
For a show room car, they should'a given a discount and a deep-clean. They also shouldn't've even put it on sale until that three months was up. They *also* also shouldn't've asked for every penny up-front. Best way they could've done it: advertise it on sale for a discounted price two and a half months into that three months, scheduled a simple down payment, done a through cleaning, then asked for the remaining payment with keys in hand.
If I was the guy who ordered the vehicle, I'd show up with my lawyer and a mechanic on delivery day, and spend 8 or 9 hours going over that vehicle with a fine tooth comb. Every little problem would have to be repaired/replaced before I would close the deal and take possession of the vehicle. After 18 years in the military, my attention to detail is razor sharp.
A downside is they'll be very wary of you going forward. Even a clean business makes mistakes and if you're inclined to show up with a lawyer you're a liability to them.
@@musicloverme3993 I'm just saying that there's a relationship between a business and the customer and unless you have reasonable suspicioun of legal malfeasance then bringing a lawyer to a simple vehicle delivery is not a great way to start a relationship built on trust.
@@snerby141989 Dealer already ruined any chance for a good relationship. We had a deal, I insist that you honor it in a reasonable manner. I'll take the vehicle under that basis, you get your profit but I'll NEVER be back!
@@M167A1 could both be true, but could also be they're trying to game the system between GM and the dealers. He mentioned "when they sell a car, they get a new one". With the car shortages, if they can get the car outnof their possession, they can get permission from GM to have another one in route. Would allow them to sell more vehicles in a given period of time.
Had something similar happened! I put 5000$ to hold a semi-truck trailer while I got the loan, I made it clear I needed 5 days to finalize and they agreed. Well long story short 3 days into the loan process the dealership told me they wasted enough time on my deal and they sold it to someone else! Later I found out that someone just came in and paid more and cash!
Next time I would just refuse to give a down payment. Why should I as it does not guarantee that I will get the vehicle. I will pay/finance full amt upon delivery. There needs to be penalties imposed upon dealers when they renege.
Not sure what country you are in, but the $ dollar sign is always first for USA dollars. If you had a contract with that money down they would need to hold it for you, no paper document they can do what you said.
My brother in law bought a fully loaded Chevy pickup a few years ago that he special ordered, at one point he was issued a VIN# of the truck BUT when the truck came in it actually had a different VIN# so if he had to pay for the truck in advance and the registration was completed how much trouble would it be to rectify that problem! Completion of the transaction should only be completed at the time of delivery of that vehicle!
+ I tend to believe that the Sales Tax is due upon Title/registration. If you (Dealer) titled/registered a vehicle in my name, you had better make it available for my use immediately!
Work IT for a dealer. Going to ask them about this tomorrow. I do know the vin is included in purchase agreements. However Vins aren't supplied to dealers until the vehicle is being scheduled at the manufacturer. I only know this as the incoming vehicle tracking software had to have the Vin check requirement removed.
@@deusvult6920 You're putting someone down...for helping another to learn to communicate properly....??? And you think you come across as the "clever" one???? 🤔
@@scottmcshannon6821 The purchase agreement and a promise of purchase contract are two different things. The purchase agreements where I live can only be printed once the vin is included. Years ago I did work auto sales while taking classes. The purchase agreements were only done when the new owner is ready to take possession of the vehicle. I do know that agreements vary as ours have state laws a codes on the agreements.
Some of my family deals with personal-liability-insurance (which includes auto-insurance): *All* of our underwriters *_WILL NOT_* underwrite a *personal vehicle* until the owner has actual, *_physical, possession_* of the vehicle. - this has been asked a few times at the office. The owner can contact the office and provide the VIN and first premium which allows an intent to bind liability; however, all that does is set-up a _conditional_ contract that only goes in-to force once the owner actually takes possession of the vehicle; until then, the first premium is held in the equivalent of an escrow account so if the sell doesn't complete then the insured gets their premium and accrued interest back (or if they prefer transferred against any other line they have with the office). Commercial lines are a little different as the vehicle could be considered as part of a fleet-managed asset and I'm not entirely sure what the conditions would be to issue the certificate - I suspect, in this case, the underwriter wouldn't allow binding coverage until a company representative took possession of the asset. > In short, you cannot insure something you do not own or have a legal interest in (renter's insurance doesn't insure the real-estate, that's the owner's responsibility, RI insures the renter's property that's in the property (TVs, jewelry, textbooks, etc...) (and in some cases, loss of use).
Well when the dealership called me on the phone and explained they wanted me to pay for the vehicle before I take delivery I would just ignore them. And if they sold the vehicle to somebody else and kept my $500 I guarantee you they're going to have issues. Hypothetically that is because I would never go to a car dealership to buy a car, EVER!!
"This is about keeping the lights on...."!?! This dealership is about to go under! If they do, good luck getting your money back for a undelivered vehicle. This demand was made to me years ago. Two weeks later the finance floor plan was terminated. Two days after that, the sheriff locked the place up.
If that dealer is trying to make payroll and keep the lights on, I believe I once heard of this thing I think called a Small Business Loan, he might want to look into that
History just repeats itself. Those old enough might remember the 1979 "gas crisis". Folks would order a fuel efficient car, such as a Dodge Omni or Plymouth Horizon, then find delivery forever delayed or canceled by the dealer as the dealers would instead sell the car to someone else for a large markup (probably over SRP). Buyers had no recourse as purchase contracts were one-sided in the dealer's favor.
'Sure, I'll pay the balance. Just deduct delivery $ and dealer prep$ from the sales contract, I'll go get it myself and drive it home since it will become MY YUKON when you take my money.'
This is a problem I've noticed when I read the fine print (I read everything before signing). When you sign a purchase agreement and put down a deposit, the agreement usually lists penalties if the buyer backs out and cancels the purchase (up to forfeiture of the deposit). But it does not list any penalties if the seller backs out and does not sell the item to the buyer. That creates a one-sided agreement which restricts the buyer, but not the seller, which opens the process up for abuse. The seller can reneg on a deal with a buyer who put down a deposit, to sell to someone with a higher cash offer. But the buyer cannot do the same if they find someone else selling the same thing for less. IMHO any deposit agreement should have reciprocity. If the agreement says the buyer loses the deposit if they back out, the seller should be penalized the same if they reneg (i.e. they have to return the deposit, and pay the buyer the equivalent of the deposit). If the seller wants to be able to shop the item around for a better buyer, they have to take the risk that they might not find a buyer. They should not be able to guarantee a buyer by signing a purchase agreement, then shop for another buyer willing to pay more knowing they have that original buyer as a safe fallback.
In the UK such a term is very likely to be considered unfair and therefore invalid. Three examples of an unfair term as given by Government advice. "by providing for excessive cancellation charges and automatic loss of all upfront payments by creating unbalanced rights, eg being able to cancel a contract at any time, but requiring the customer to give 3 months’ notice by allowing you to increase the agreed price at a later date"
Love your 'Legal Narration': Comedy Translation = Who's on First? by Abbott & Costello with "Two Tens for a Five" dealership and "7 x 13 = 28", again, according to Abbott & Costello
My parents ordered a custom vehicle and it apparently fell off a train during shipment to their dealership and it was totalled... so NO this is not okay.
@@woodrat2296 If it's not properly secured, quite easily. Even easier if the rest of the train falls off the tracks in the process. Hell, people have read package tracking info that legit says 'package fell into ocean'. Safety laws and regulations be damned, there are just some people in every industry that don't give a shit about doing the right thing. I've seen enough USCSB videos to know how little some people care (btw, those videos are detailed af, and the animators are great).
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 I still question how in the hell a car falls off a purpose built rail car? I worked at a Toyota plant in Cambridge and know full well how those vehicles are transported and what precautions are taken to secure those vehicles in transit.
@@woodrat2296 Trains do derail... there's even one famous TH-cam video of a train carrying cars and trucks hitting a semi at a level crossing with one of the vehicle it was transporting flying through the air.
in 1999 I ordered a 2000 VW Turbo Beetle and put a deposit on it. I was in the Navy and on Sea Duty which meant that I was either working up to a long cruise or doing drug ops. I needed a new car and it fit my needs at the time. I was pre-approved for a car loan from my credit union and was issued a check from the credit union for any amount below $25,000. I got tagged for a short cruise of about 90 days, during which time the car I ordered would come in. Long story short, yeah I paid for the car, got a purchase order, had it stamped 'PAID IN FULL', tapped my car insurance to add the VIN to my policy as a future car that would be on the policy and... I came back, the car had been delivered a few days before, I went in to pick the car up and was told "Yeah, we need another $15,500 for us to sell this car to you" and I pointed at the purchase order and the big red 'PAID IN FULL' and said 'Bring my car around'. 3 hours later, a demand by me for them to do their jobs and do the pre-delivery inspection and cleanup and even to the last moment the manager was all "I can't be out of pocket on this! Just give me, like, $2,000!" and I said 'You made that deal, you stamped the purchase order 'PAID IN FULL' and cashed that check. Gimmie my keys so I can get out of here". For the 2 years I got my preventative maintenance done for free there...but... only occasionally did they wash it afterwards, which was their normal thing.
Part of the problem is that the proposed buyer signed the agreement, however the seller didn’t sign the agreement. I’ve heard of dealers recently taking orders from a customer, getting a deposit, having the customer sign the agreement/contract and then asking for actually more money when the car finally arrives.
Yeah, thank you Steve. I'm glad I found you in my later 20s. I've only ever bought one car new and 2 from a dealer. 6 vehicles have been private sales since I left the army and found your channel. 1 prior to this new found information.
I had ordered a new Ford van, many years back, and the day after I ordered the van, the dealership called me and said they had written the order right, but did not charge me enough for that length wheel base vehicle, so they wanted me to come back in and sign a new contract, because this vehicle was going to cost more. I told them that, the reason I ordered the van from them, was because they were cheaper than the dealer nearby, so I was not going to pay more, and I have a signed contract and you have to get me the van, for the price quoted, and they did. It didn't show up as soon as it was supposed to, and I was afraid that over 400.00 dollars, they would try to screw me over.
Ah yes that is a common tactic but fortunately they're bound by contract of course they can cancel the contract but it's highly doubtful that they will. After all they're going to make massive amounts of money off you why would they turn that down.
What happens if there's is an error with the VIN? You are now insuring a car that doesn't exist. What happens if they accidentally sell the car to another customer. I see so many things going wrong with this scenario. Car falls off a barge, do you think GM is going to cover it?
Lol you just reminded me of the Golden Ray capsize in Georgia. Over 4000 new cars destroyed. Car falls of a barge indeed. Oh the insurance adjuster wants to inspect your car for damages. Sry its still in the St Simon river under 40 ft of water and 50 other cars.
I ran into this while dealing with a regional, deep discount RV dealer in NYS. I call to find an exact unit I want, and to see what is involved with ordering one? The tell me that there are no more being built that model year, but they have three units for STOCK, due to arrive shortly. They then tell me that to "hold it" since it is now a "special order" I will have to pay in full immediately, and title the unit BEFORE it arrives. I tell them that it will never happen. They reply that it is standard procedure, which I call bullshit on. They discuss it with the grand wizard behind the curtain, AKA "the manager" who tells me that it's fine, I can title it when I get there, but that I still have to pay ahead of time, since they need to see that funds clear. I tell them that also isn't happening, but I will arrive with cash, certified funds or whatever method they want. They tell me that none of those are acceptable. I laugh and ask if they are also afraid of bank transfers? They said they probably couldn't do anything unless I paid in full a week or two ahead of time. I again repeat that it's not an option, since I'm not an idiot. I find out that they use the same bank I do. I then ask if they would call their local banker and ask how the hell it would be possible for my bank to scam themselves, with a transfer from one account to another? They finally agree to take a bank transfer. I arrive at the dealer, after they take delivery and do the prep. work. After I saw that it was correct and undamaged, I call my branch to complete the transfer of funds to their account. I leave with the RV and title. The crazy part is that there really were dozens of customers a month, who were dumb enough to pay tens of thousands and more, in full, for RVs that were not even produced yet. As I was telling the dealer that they were out of their minds if they thought I would be so stupid, I ask what happens when the delivery hot shot rolls the new rig at 80 MPH on the interstate, and it's titled to the customer? They offered nothing but crickets, then "well you would have to ask your insurance company about that". I replied with another lol. I'm still stunned that I was an outlier and that so many of their new RV buyers were just so gullible, or even stupid.
@@kerrykerry5778 Your new RV was correct and undamanged!? You might be the only one like that these days. The horror stories abound about new RVs arriving with major defects because the factories are just shoving them out the door, finished or not.
@2:24 insuring a car I haven't yet taken possession is something I've done a few times. I've gotten a ride from Maine to Massachusetts with a Maine transit plate to put on a car I was buying there to then drive home. The transit plates will not be issued without insurance.
This is an interesting exercise in pooch-screwing by the dealership. If a deposit doesn't guarantee that an agreement will be honored, it's going to be hard to get people to put down deposits.
Dealerships tend to be shady in most aspects of business. I've dealt with it a few times like adding the extended warranty without your knowledge. They don't anticipate that most buyers will look at the contract. If you've ever wondered why a dealership contract is so overwhelming, it's because many of these places engage in deceptive practices. They can say anything they want and if you don't read, and understand, the contract then most likely you'll have no recourse. It's always "Buyer Beware". Read that contract, and watch the finance manager sweat. 🤣🤣 I even had one get angry and confrontational because he had to rewrite the contract. He was caught and didn't handle it well.
I know when I ordered my 17 Camaro ZL1, I only had to deposit $100.00. That locked the ordered vehicle to me. No VIN was supplied at first since the vehicle was a custom order, I didn't receive the VIN till about 2 months before the vehicle was delivered. Even then the VIN was not appointed to any specific vehicle body as the vehicle wasn't built yet. The VIN determined how the vehicle was to be built since GM VIN's will match all of the options selected on the custom ordered vehicle. Total time of vehicle from order to deliver was almost 6 months. I was not expected to pay anything till I actually picked the vehicle up from the dealer. Many others went to the dealer to try and buy the vehicle from under me as the dealer I dealt with was only allotted 3-ZL1's for the year and I had ordered the last one they could get. Dealer never tried to sell the car from under me nor asked me to pay up front and that was a $68,000 car.
That car is either damaged or they want to sell it for more to someone else....there's no other reason for them to not want to follow through with their agreement
I suspect the VIN is the first thing generated in the production process. It is probably generated when the job is scheduled, possibly weeks before any parts are bolted together.
I worked at a Toyota/Chrysler dealership in the early 90's. I do remember people coming there and doing a car count/inventory. I think they told me it was the bank that did inventory. It annoyed me because they put a mark on the headlights with a marker when they counted the vehicle. I was in charge of the reconditioning crew and we had to remove the marks from all 200+ vehicles.
Just a few months ago I had put $500 down for a w/c van that was in another state we had to wait a week for it to be delivered to this local dealer that specialized in w/c vehicles. 10 days later was told it was here but needed some work. A few days later went down unannounced to visit my van. That's when I found out they set me up for a bait and switch. When I asked where my blue van was the manager pointed to a white van and said here it is. He insisted I bought this white van which only had 47,000 miles on it with a big but it only had one service record on it and that was when it left the 1st owner and the auction buyer bought it. This would be a better van with this low mileage. Being a record keeper I had the proof of what I was buying. But this Bait and Switch is a real thing. Found another w/c van we are happy with just one more repair and it will be good to go and go and go. Used cars mean you will need to be prepared to repair a few things.
What if he paid for it, insured it, and the dealer went out of business before delivery? The vehicle never arrives and is impounded or stored at some unknown location.
I work at an automotive manufacturing facility for one of GM’s competitors, but if their system is anything like ours, I can tell you that the existence of a VIN doesn’t mean it’s even been built. The VIN usually exists in software well before it’s been stamped onto parts. If someone fucks up in the paint shop and it gets sprayed with the wrong color, or it fails at certain steps within the process, more often than not they crush the vehicle and recycle the scrap for regulatory reasons. The interior parts, and drivetrain can be used in another vehicle, but they usually get one shot at the body and frame, and if the build isn’t completed, they just scrap that VIN because it’s documented somewhere as not being built to make sure those parts don’t make their way into other vehicles. So, if that happened to this guy’s vehicle, the OEM’s inventory management system would likely update the dealership with a new VIN for that order. The vehicles moving down the line are all in order by VIN, so they wouldn’t try to slip a do over back into the line, because part of the VIN includes a portion used to track the date of manufacture, so if they had a problem with a part from a specific vendor that failed to pass inspection, they know when they were used, and how many were used and they can quarantine those vehicles based on the VIN number, and fix the issue before it gets to a customer. I know that was a bit of a tangent for that very specific detail, but I figured I’d mention that until the vehicle has passed final QC inspection, it’s not built. Again, I don’t work for GM, but I can’t imagine their process is that different from ours, but if it is, I’m sure one of the GM guys in your audience will correct me.
Big problem right now across the country is, both the manufacturer websites and the dealer websites are listing vehicles "in transit" when that really wasn't a big thing before the pandemic. So anyone can see this customer's Yukon on both the dealer site and the GMC Yukon site. And as such, they can offer the dealer $X to buy it, because it is not indicated as a customer-ordered (committed purchase) vehicle. You can see the full vehicle sticker, which includes the VIN - and the VIN is assigned when the manufacturer schedules the vehicle for production, not after it's built. Right now, the GMC Yukon website notes the dealership in Davison MI has 6 Yukons and 2 Yukon XLs - all marked "in transit" - showing the VIN and dealer stock number of each. So this customer's truck is one of these 8. But because there's no designation the vehicle is a customer order, I could offer to buy it from under them if I pony enough cash to the dealer. With the current supply and demand problems of new vehicles, there are people likely willing to do just that. An ethical dealer won't accept such an offer unless/until the ordering customer backs out of the purchase (and said customer may have done so prior to the vehicle being shipped because it took too long). A less scrupulous dealer will accept offers and if a potential customer really puishes their chips to the center, that dealer may indeed sell the vehicle from under the ordering customer, taking the extra cash.
For years, since I stopped buying trucks from *on hand inventory* dealer stock instead of ordering EXACTLY what I want, I have kept track of how long it takes to receive said truck (even RV's). Aside from a $500 deposit, which seems quite low, as soon as my frame was issued a serial/vin number, I was notified, generally 2-4 weeks. THIS is what will show up on the final draft of the contract. Until then, it's basically a promissory type note that I will purchase a vehicle with said equipment/color/etc. I've even traded an older vehicle for a new one, signed the contract and THEN be told AFTER 2 WEEKS & 250 miles, that the contract needed to be re-written (to a higher interest rate/term). I drove the new truck back, seen my trade still sitting there which told me they had an issue on their end (illegal to sell trade until new paperwork was square). I went in to the dealer, laid the keys on the sales managers desk, listened to their spiel why they *couldnt* stick to the original contract or give me my old keys back, took out my spare keys, walked out took my trade back & NEVER heard back from them... have never since gave that dealership a good word.
I used to be in sales, the company sold flooring, mostly residential, they had multiple locations (9 or more). How we normally did things was we would get a 50% deposit. The reason being, you might out a carpet you love, we put an order in, it is not a matter of putting it back in stock, it might sit there for 10 years. I got another job, but stayed on with this company because, I had a huge client list, and I could go in a couple nights a week and do pretty well. One day, they say they need payment in full for all orders. We could give a discount if they paid cash (i.e. a check up front instead of using a credit card). It didn't seem too Crazy, Home Depot had the same policy. I start checking on some orders, that aren't being shipped, they show in inventory at the Mill. I decide to make a phone call, why isn't the product being shipped? It turns out we had no credit with them, and every order had to paid upfront or wouldn't be shipped, they weren't paying for anything. Just taking people's money. Personally I didn't like the discount thing for people paying cash/check because I figured it would screw with my commissions. I ended up doing refunds on all the credit card orders I took, and called the people with a story, they discontinued the material or something, whatever I could think of. Chances are they would have gotten the money back eventually, but who knows. Company was going bankrupt, they just wanted to pay out some bonuses or what not and screwed everyone else
Well this hits close to home. If it is who I think it is, they also committed some type of bait and switch scam to get people to come in. Mailed out a key and or code reader or something, said if it says winner you get so much money in gold... well my mom won and got a scratch off.
I purchased a Porsche in California that was ordered from the factory. I took delivery of the vehicle at the Porsche Experience Center in Los Angeles. Dealership was in Rocklin (NorCal). The paperwork was all completed about a week before I took delivery, including insurance. So clearly you can do that. My insurance company had no issue saying that the insurance started the day I was going to take delivery.
I used to work at a dealership. Even after the franchise was wholly owned (financing paid off) we couldn't accept anything more than the deposit required by the manufacturer prior to delivery. It's sleazeballs like this that make the whole process look horrible to buyers.
Need it for money to pay the bills... also... we would unwind the deal if it wasn't like new. If they are already making it clear they are robbing Peter to pay Paul, I have no assurance that they could come up with money to unwind the deal if the car wasn't like new.
I'd bet a hundred bucks that the insurance company would let you pay for insurance on the vehicle you haven't received yet, BUT, if you need to make a claim on it, I'll bet a THOUSAND dollars, they'd deny the claim.
I worked in the Fleet truck portion of the new car/truck market for many years. The VIN is available as the build is progressing and dealers use it to track production. The vehicle must be delivered to either the dealer or an upfitter before it actually is passed into the possession of the dealer. Technically the dealer can't process the title until the vehicle has been delivered to them, offcially. I've never heard of a lender funding a loan before the vehicle is ready to be taken possession of by the customer. The end of the contract is only reached when the vehicle is deliverable to the end-user/owner. Large fleets will not and do not transfer any money until the vehicle has been inspected or approved by their personnel or representative agent, such as a leasing company. Companies like Exxon/Mobil buy all the way down at Net, Net, Net prices, and if you think they are paying a second earlier than they have to the dealer is just fooling themselves. The video example sounds like a salesperson wanting to get paid their commission before the car is delivered, given the dates given for the requested payment. Perhaps the dealer is upset over a customer who refused to allow the dealer to acquire the financing and make more money. Dealers hate it when you take one of their revenue streams, profit, financing, dealer sold products such as accessories, or extended warranties.
Here in the UK there are reports of used car prices higher than new cars due to delivery issues. Some used cars are up 30%. We purchased a 2018 Ford for £9000 in late 2021. Similar age and spec cars now advertised for £11-12,000.
When I bought my wife’s new Bronco Sport this year, i has to finance and pay for as soon as Ford issued the Vin. They said that was the only way I could guarantee that vehicle. Now this was NOT one I ordered, but one I found online though a dealership that did not charge above MSRP. Neither the dealership nor our lender required us to insure the vehicle before we took possession of her new bronco. I already have full coverage on a truck so driving it home was not an issue either. Just my experience, I understand since I was not the original person who has that vehicular ordered why I has to pay in advance. On the other foot, I now currently have a 2022 Bronco on order though another dealership, I did not put anything down, but since I ordered it, I couldn’t see myself paying for it before I took delivery.
Unfortunately, MOST people could not care less what happens to someone buying a vehicle worth more than their house. My first thought was, "Oh no. dude has to wait longer for the car worth more than my house. Poor him will he be ok?"
Maybe I missed something , if the dealership accepts payment in full before the vehicle is in its inventory and it does not get logged into the police book, and then arrives and immediately given to the buyer on arrival and still not logged into the police book, is it then untraceable to tax authorities? Or with a slight of hand, can the dealer claim that the purchase was made out of state using the excuse that the buyer already paid and had insurance on the vehicle as proof upon its arrival.
the VIN is not finalized until it actually ships to the dealership. the VIN you get before that in a dealership is not the actual VIN, but a similar "production VIN". its not the same as the consumer facing VIN, which is not finalized until the vehicle is actually shipped out of the factory.
Yes, you can get a loan before delivery. If you know the price of the vehicle, many banks will issue you a loan for that amount, or sometimes even for a little more.
@@deusvult6920 You are correct. They will approve a loan but they will not issue any payment or cut a check till they have the VIN and appropriate paperwork (Title).
I'm an underwriter for a credit union in Wisconsin. I will pre-approve an amount but won't give final approval for documents to be prepared until we have a VIN.
FWIW, the VINs are apparently assigned pretty early in the car build process. a friend has an F150 on order for delivery in 3-6 months and has his VIN.
Back in 2021, in Florida, I went to one of my local Ford dealers to buy and/or trade in my vehicle on a new one. They said the same thing to me. They also tried to push me into trading in my vehicle and giving it to them and leaving me without a vehicle - that idea was absolutely crazy. AND, they could not even verify that I would get the next vehicle in line, they told me it could be months , even up to 6 months to a year. So, I would be without a car - that would even give them the right to sell my vehicle before even giving me the new one. Crazy!
With all the turbulence going on in today's economy, I wouldn't give money to anybody without delivery of goods. The ship it comes over on could capsize, chip shortage could leave it on a lot for months, or it could be accidentally delivered to another person like the Corvette (yeah...but I digress). Nothing is certain with the chaos going on today.
I had a career as a bankruptcy attorney and bankruptcy trustee over more than 40 years. There are so many red flags in this story that my advice to the would-be purchaser is to go down to the dealership, cancel the order and try to get his deposit back. Since the dealership has not delivered on time, there is at least a prospect of that, but don't hold your breath. If he were to pay the balance of the purchase price under these circumstances, first, he cannot get a loan secured by the vehicle because he has no interest in the collateral which the lender would accept, so he has to go cash out of pocket or pledge some other assets to secure a loan. Secondly, when he pays over his money, he has no prior claim on the vehicle. The vehicle is owned by the manufacturer until the dealer purchases it. The dealer is doing business with a "flooring" lender, who holds a security interest in the vehicle when it pays the manufacturer for its borrower, the dealer. When the dealer takes the buyer's money, he is supposed to send it to his lender, but if he uses part or all of it for other expenses, or just makes off with it, the lender claims the vehicle to get repaid. The buyer holds no claim in the vehicle and is just owed a refund by the dealership. If the dealership closes down or files bankruptcy, the buyer holds that classic legal position, being "shit out of luck". Even if the bankruptcy court is involved, pays the lender and recovers the vehicle, do you think it then goes to the buyer who paid for it? Well, no it doesn't. It gets sold off and the proceeds go to pay the "priority claims" of the bankruptcy dealer, which will inevitably be its delinquent taxes. So, run my dude, run. I once represented a party in this situation, and the proposed buyer got Zip. (The buyer's lawyer was not well educated to bankruptcy law, but had gotten into the matter in state court before bankruptcy was filed by the owner of the dealership. When the judge made his decision in open court, she almost fainted, and her client (the buyer) had to catch her as she dropped. No, I didn't represent the dealer. The buyer sued everyone who had anything to do with the dealership; my client was a glorified lot-boy and cousin the the dealer.)
At least with Ford, if you custom order a truck you get the VIN before it is even built. I ordered one and they gave me the VIN about a month before the scheduled build date. You can use the VIN to track the progress online, see when it's built when it shipped and when it gets delivered.
But what about if they make someone pay for the vehicle then in sometime in the future they deliver him a vehicle, when does warranty start? When does the sale start? And what if it shows up with different options than customer wants? It is absolutely ridiculous.
That would void the purchase agreement. The purchase agreement is a contract, anything listed in teh agreement that does not wind up in the vehicle will need to be changed/added before the purchase is completed or it voids the agreement.
@@yunofunbut by paying and signing off then you finalized the purchase. That is an issue going back to say that is not what I ordered, well you signed off and paid so too bad.
Yes, The contract is equally binding to both parties. But a lot of these automobile seller contracts leave details solely to the discretion of the cellar or the manufacturer
My brother bought a truck that was not in inventory, and they completed the paperwork and then they sold vehicle to another customer. In the end, they delivers a different vehicle from another dealership three hours away and paid to drive it to the local dealership.
On order cars , or specifically ordered car. Are not on the books at the dealer but at the factory. And they are delivered to dealer for pickup from customer. Like wheelchair lift put on a van. Everything else is a standard model that came off the line. But the dealership that ordered it gets a flat fee for handling the sale and doing paperwork. Including handing it into state.
"keeping the lights on." Sounds like a them problem not the buyers problem.
Sounds like the dealer is about to go under therefore this a big red flag about giving any more money until the vehicle is delivered.
@@JohnTheRevelat0r I'm pretty sure you can get warranty service / general service from any dealer
Was it a salesman that said that or the owner? once they start using that language you know where their mindset is.
The very second it goes from "lights and taxes" to "lights or taxes" you have entered the deep end of pool and are getting weaker by the second.
İn the state where İ live, unpaid wages for all work completed by an employee is legally considered to be an unsecured loan from the employee to the employer. The employee is considered to be an unsecured creditor. Vacations are never owed.
Bonuses, even if they told you differently, are nrver owed.
Where you get into trouble is when this piles up.oİt is undetstandable that an employee might do thinhs to help a struggling business hold on. This is even commendable. But if it gets out of hand, be careful and mever forget that your place is at the very back of the line and you are not goong to see your money again.
Why does all this matter,? Because if the corp you are working for goes belly up, you should have a fair understanding of the laws in your state. when iit comes to dissolving a corporation. By knowing them you can protect yourself to some extent - at least minimuze loss
For example, İ once allowed an employer to fall 8 weeks behind in paychecks. - So, in the event of a bankrupcy, with whatever undistributed funds remain creditors are made whole in this order:
1. Federal agencies (taxes, etc.)
2.State Agencies (tax, etc.)
3. Secured Creditors
4. Unsecured Creditors
The issue is that most companies do not declare bankruptcy with a ton of available cash. İf you are owed back wages, kiss that money goodbye. Also, if you're want to contest anythong, you must act very fast. İ had a piece of personal eqiipment the company took and apparently been misplaced. By the time İ realized it was missing, the company had been dissolve, all available funds distributed, All in less than 5 days. İn short, there nothing left to sue as the company np longer existed. So, if you agree to delay receipt of your paycheck.
After losing this money İ contacted my doctor and had the large , flashing red "SUCKER" sign surgically removed from my forehead.
That's code for "The truck is worth more now, then when the buyer signed the purchase agreement. We will try everything we can to void the contract we signed..."
"We blamed everybody and got paid." LOL!
You are funny 😁 😂. Thanks ! It's a loop joke right?
That was good 😂
It makes sense, you have to include all possible guilty parties, for the judge to sort things out.
But I would like to know who had to pay.
@@sandrajones2262 that was between everybody else to figure out... lol (more litigation ofc)
I'm willing to bet the vehicle has already been damaged and the dealer is trying make the customer responsible.
That was my thought. Next thing they will get a call saying come pick up your wrecked vehicle. No way would I go through with that. But I suppose it’s also possible that the dealership is counting on them backing out so they can sell it for more.
I would not doubt it.
That's why the dealership asked for insurance.
Seems like either something is wrong with the vehicle and the want to offload the risk or they are trying to trick the customer into backing out of a deal made before the dealerships started tacking on the “market adjustment” pricing of 5-40k over msrp they are now because the know it will be on the lot soon. Heard a lot of reports about dealerships tacking the additional market adjustment fee for the pre ordered broncos that were orders in 2019 and 2020 but not delivered till late 2021 after the market really shifted in the favor of dealers
@@herroldj Its the latter. My boss regularly buys new vehicles for his buisiness and has been saying for months that cars are a huge item right now because of chip shortages, and OLDER models are even worth more than when they left the lot, some by like 10k.
Dealer probably found someone who offered him 10-20k more than the original buyer and is now trying to weasel out of the original deal.
OK so need to post the name and location of the dealership so people can AVOID that dealership.
Steve said this was in Davison, MI. A quick google search shows only one GMC dealership in that town...
Wow, said dealership has a 1 of 5 star BBB rating... That alone would have prevented me from purchasing a vehicle from them.
@@stevevedell5642 Apparently a well earned rating!
Todd Wenzel Buick GMC of Davison
This guy needs to file a complaint with the AG and request that an audit of the police book be performed. I bet a whole lot of shady practices will be discovered.
But since they granted him an "exception", isn't it now moot? What further remedy is he possibly seeking?
@@musicloverme3993 You sound like you work for that dealership.
@@Grisu1805 Not at all. I liked the comment that I responded to. I was just considering what next would play out.
And this is exactly what spot-check audits are for. They don't need probable cause or any kind of prompting but it sure does help.
If the dealership attorney is watching this, he would be calling the manager: _"Shut up, stop making the legal hole deeper."_
Now the state will know why he has to "Keep the lights on."
I wouldn't want to buy a car from a dealer that's circling the drain, and I'd certainly not advance any money to a dealer that's on the verge of bankruptcy as this one seems to be.
And a lot of them are treating this like a real estate bidding war. there are shortages of cars and high demand, people with cash willing to pay big mark-ups to get ahead of the line.
That raises a truly interesting question that Steve does not cover. What would happen if the person paid for the car before delivery and the dealership went belly up after receiving the payment but before the car was delivered to them? Presumably GM would not deliver a vehicle to a bankrupt entity, or is it legally required to do so? If not I assume the buyer is still on the hook for the amount he's paid and that he would join the list of creditors seeking recovery in the bankruptcy proceedings.
@@robintrehaeven6800 That was my first thought. Take the money, then declare bankruptcy before the delivery.
@@robintrehaeven6800 There are two separate transactions involved, one between the customer and the dealer and the other between the dealer and GM. If the dealer goes bankrupt before the truck is delivered then GM is within their rights to not deliver the truck to the dealer unless the dealer pays them first. The customer has no recourse except bankruptcy court. They have a contract with the dealer not GM. What's more customers are going to be at the back of the line. First call on the assets goes to the employees of the dealer. Employees are entitled to any back pay they are owned and then depending on the state pay for some minimum layoff notice period. After them comes the secured lenders, the banks. Unsecured creditors are going to get pennies on the dollar if they get anything at all.
Lol. That's what I was thinking, just not that colorfully.
Thanks Steve. I have decided to keep my 12 year old Subaru instead of paying to pay for overpriced cars!!
Nice to hear that! I am keeping my 10 year old Subaru for now, and leaving my money in my pocket until this rip off stuff ends.
They're making gas powered vehicles against the law through regulations. Cars will likely be much more expensive in the future. Get as much car as you can afford now. Several large manufacturers are quietly telling their factory workers to not count on employment building cars past 2025.
@@hugokatz what's the point of owning all those cars when fuel is $10/gallon?
Me, too. Not a Subaru, but a 10 year old Odyssey.
@@OmaBike If my Subaru quits, I will just get a bike. lol
I worked in the car business for 20 years. We got sued and lost by selling the car to someone else after someone had put a deposit down on it.
I can see why this dealership is in trouble they have terrible business practices and its causing them to lose their customers. Nobody in their right mind should do business there
They probably want to lose this customer after realizing they can make more money. They're in all likelihood hoping the hoops they're making the original buyer go through will cause him to back out.
Yep. If a dealer tells me this, it's my cue to take it on down the road.
It's an obvious LIE; They just want to sell their Yukon to someone else for more $...They signed the agreement, then the MSRP went UP, due to roaming shortages on cars.
Tell us it's a bad time to buy a car without telling ... These dealers are shooting themselves in the foot. They'll eventually be faced with a buyer's market and their good will tank will be empty
Yup, it'll turn around on them HARD.
If anything, all these examples are going to be collected and listed against them in arguments for why car dealers should not have a monopoly on sales and direct buys should exist for those who want it.
Expect a massive backslash againts the laws which don't allow manufacturers to sell directly, dealirships days are numbered...and car sellers being more hated than telemarketers best find another Jobs.
It's ALREADLY starting...my dad CALLED it he sold for 20+ years.
the VERY next DAY I found the first link... then my dad 110% agreed.
th-cam.com/video/zhmr8w-A7YQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/P0aogtJYA64/w-d-xo.html
Elon musk is spending tons of money to make that happen, i hope it does, dealerships are pointless
@@tboniusmaximus3047 He's also still losing money with Tesla and he has many lawsuits against him right now.
So we're getting a Carvana experience with new vehicles. Lovely.
Wouldn't insure something I haven't taken possession of, nevermind haven't seen its condition. And the deposit is a guarantee that a deal is locked in with you, and can't be offered to anyone else until you refuse. Also they can't sell you a car that dealer hasn't even taken possession of to begin with. This dealer sounds shady. They might not be doing things legally and by the book if these are the facts.
Actually they can twist the law...if the manufacture has allocated the vehicle to the dealer they consider that to be in their inventory because the vehicle is coming directly to them an no other dealer can take it without their agreement. When I bought my GMC truck a few years ago they did not have the truck yet but it shows up in their inventory to sell...took 3 weeks to get it in. Lexus and other foreign cars do the same thing....you cannot order a car but they will find you one that is being built and once it is released to a dealer they can play the shuffle game between dealers,
@@walterwhite2270 Still would not make the first payment (beyond the deposit) until I have the keys in hand and the vehicle working and in the condition I was promised.
correction?: "Wouldn't insure something I have*n't*..."
@@walterwhite2270 What about a state inspector not finding the "inventoried" vehicle in the "Police Book" or actually present at the dealer?
@@walterwhite2270 Actually they must take possession before it can be placed in inventory. The dealer as part of the contract can demand a 100% down payment (if they really want to be that way) but once a contract is signed and the terms are accepted they cannot change those terms without the permission of the other party. This is a case of the dealer trying to change the terms. BY THE WAY. no bank or credit union will issue the loan until you can receive the vehicle (You can complete the loan paperwork, and have everything set up and even the check is issued, but the loan starts the day the product is received and the check presented)
Does that mean you could charge the dealership a daily rental fee?
Exactly, they expect you to pay in full for a vehicle you don't have use of. You should be able to charge them a daily rental fee and they must carry insurance like any car rental does.
A brand new Yukon would cost hundreds per day!
Lol 😆 lol 😆 hilarious. I laughed out loud!
Loss of use.
Next thing you know they will expect us to pay thousands for Beta software.
Well, nothing ventured...
My theory. The dealer has someone willing to pay way over sticker. They where hoping the buyer would have said screw you cancel the sale. Then they would be free to sell it to the new buyer with a huge mark up....But instead he went public.. the dealership screwed themself over
My question was if he'd just said we have a contract and not paid and "lost" the car could be sue for the markup in his breach lawsuit.
@@leoncarpenter958
Yep
I'd have told him to shove it......Keep your vehicle....word of mouth is a good way to ruin a reputation.....
Or, "do you really want me to talk to the local TV consumer reporter about this?"
Giving this purchaser an "exception" implies that they have done this practice in the past and are still doing it. Have any other of their customers complained of this practice?
NO, because before the car shortage, they never could make an "exception". Now, the price on popular models is going UP, the minute it hits the lot...Person ordered a highly desirable model, and they can now sell it for more...In other words, the dealer "Wan't their cake, and to eat it too"
Wow so many red flags.
Back in 1988 I bought my First and Only New Truck.
A Ford Ranger, Extra cab, Longer bed, Various packages including Cruise with tilt wheel, Towing package, cooling package, 4 cylinder, 5 speed standard trans, Dual Gas Tanks, etc.
Special Order, so it took a month, and I gave them $1000 down (total $12,800)
The Salesguy (who was the Owner's Son) called and told me it was here and to come pick it up.
He seemed as excited as I was.
Wife and I made the 40 mile trip to the dealer, with all the Credit Union Loan paperwork in hand.
Next thing we know we are in an office with someone else, (Actually it ended up being several someone else's)
Pressured to finance with them, even though already had full approval.
Next they insisted that I provide them with Proof of Insurance on the New Truck. (My then -carrier gave you 2 weeks to notify them)
Called the Agent and got it covered. He offered to Fax the Proof Paperwork to the Dealer. Nope! I needed to make the trip down to pick up the paperwork, and bring it back.
60 miles South for a total 120 mile, 3 hour trip.
Got back and More pressure.
Finally the Salesguy made it through the crowd, called over his father, and magically the paperwork finally fell into place.
I went by the place about 2 months later, just to say "Hi" the the Good Salesguy.
He pulled me out to a corner of the lot, and in privacy apologized for the hassle we had to go through.
Then went on to explain what had been going on.
Seems a couple people had come in, spotted the truck, and claimed it was Exactly what they were needing, and wanting. They were willing to pay the Full Sticker Price in Cash Immediately.
It seems the Team had been trying to get me to back out of the sale, (and they would have gotten to keep the $1000 deposit too), so they could sell the truck to either one of the new buyers.
His Father was NOT Pleased. And Neither was He.
He passed me a couple of freebies, including a Dinner coupon for a local famous restaurant.
Those guys ended up not staying too long with that dealership.
The last time I tried to buy a ford they tried to pressure me into financing with them despite me having all the finances worked out already.
What really sunk it for them is they wouldn't tell me the length or the interest rate until I agreed. They just kept assuring me that the payments were lower and that they "got me a better deal".
When I started to walk out they finally gave me the details on their financing. Yes the payments were lower, and even the interest (barely) but it was for 3 more years than my loan. In the long run it would have cost me far more to take their deal.
I was looking for a new truck few months ago, found a truck that matches my needs, dealer said I have to pay for it that day, then wait three months before they're done showing it on the show room floor. I was shocked. Took my business else where, found what I wanted the next day and drove it off that lot same day.
I would have told them either I take MY car off the lot today, or the Dealer PAYS ME $1,000.00 per HOUR (or portion of) it sits in their showroom so that other people can put their grubby mitts all over MY CAR...
I agree with you odbo, three months of people getting in it, their kids, and test drives ... no thank you.
Worse yet, if the title is in your name at that point - in a lot places, (at least in my state) you as the title holder would ultimately be liable for any damage or injuries that resulted from the dealership's continued use of the vehicle in that you authorized the dealer to use the vehicle - as the use is commercial, even if you did bind liability, unless it include the commercial usage rider, you're on the hook for the entire cost of such injury and damage.
For a show room car, they should'a given a discount and a deep-clean. They also shouldn't've even put it on sale until that three months was up. They *also* also shouldn't've asked for every penny up-front. Best way they could've done it: advertise it on sale for a discounted price two and a half months into that three months, scheduled a simple down payment, done a through cleaning, then asked for the remaining payment with keys in hand.
If I was the guy who ordered the vehicle, I'd show up with my lawyer and a mechanic on delivery day, and spend 8 or 9 hours going over that vehicle with a fine tooth comb. Every little problem would have to be repaired/replaced before I would close the deal and take possession of the vehicle. After 18 years in the military, my attention to detail is razor sharp.
Yep, the dealer "asked for it" when they acted shady! Gotta protect yourself.
A downside is they'll be very wary of you going forward. Even a clean business makes mistakes and if you're inclined to show up with a lawyer you're a liability to them.
@@snerby141989 So be it. They made themselves wary to you.
@@musicloverme3993 I'm just saying that there's a relationship between a business and the customer and unless you have reasonable suspicioun of legal malfeasance then bringing a lawyer to a simple vehicle delivery is not a great way to start a relationship built on trust.
@@snerby141989 Dealer already ruined any chance for a good relationship. We had a deal, I insist that you honor it in a reasonable manner. I'll take the vehicle under that basis, you get your profit but I'll NEVER be back!
I guess the dealership doesn’t want to honor a contract that THEY drew up and signed.
@@M167A1 could both be true, but could also be they're trying to game the system between GM and the dealers.
He mentioned "when they sell a car, they get a new one".
With the car shortages, if they can get the car outnof their possession, they can get permission from GM to have another one in route.
Would allow them to sell more vehicles in a given period of time.
Had something similar happened!
I put 5000$ to hold a semi-truck trailer while I got the loan, I made it clear I needed 5 days to finalize and they agreed.
Well long story short 3 days into the loan process the dealership told me they wasted enough time on my deal and they sold it to someone else!
Later I found out that someone just came in and paid more and cash!
Next time I would just refuse to give a down payment. Why should I as it does not guarantee that I will get the vehicle. I will pay/finance full amt upon delivery. There needs to be penalties imposed upon dealers when they renege.
Not sure what country you are in, but the $ dollar sign is always first for USA dollars. If you had a contract with that money down they would need to hold it for you, no paper document they can do what you said.
My brother in law bought a fully loaded Chevy pickup a few years ago that he special ordered, at one point he was issued a VIN# of the truck BUT when the truck came in it actually had a different VIN# so if he had to pay for the truck in advance and the registration was completed how much trouble would it be to rectify that problem! Completion of the transaction should only be completed at the time of delivery of that vehicle!
+ I tend to believe that the Sales Tax is due upon Title/registration. If you (Dealer) titled/registered a vehicle in my name, you had better make it available for my use immediately!
Work IT for a dealer. Going to ask them about this tomorrow. I do know the vin is included in purchase agreements. However Vins aren't supplied to dealers until the vehicle is being scheduled at the manufacturer. I only know this as the incoming vehicle tracking software had to have the Vin check requirement removed.
@@DarthVader1977 you were bullied in school
@@deusvult6920 Give him some slack, someone probably put sand in his pants. He hates sand.
how can the vin be on the purchasing agreement if the car hasnt even been started to be built?
@@deusvult6920 You're putting someone down...for helping another to learn to communicate properly....???
And you think you come across as the "clever" one????
🤔
@@scottmcshannon6821 The purchase agreement and a promise of purchase contract are two different things. The purchase agreements where I live can only be printed once the vin is included.
Years ago I did work auto sales while taking classes. The purchase agreements were only done when the new owner is ready to take possession of the vehicle. I do know that agreements vary as ours have state laws a codes on the agreements.
Ben deciding which car to buy 🤔 while sipping on some coffee ☕️ if he could only reach the tops of mugs
Some of my family deals with personal-liability-insurance (which includes auto-insurance):
*All* of our underwriters *_WILL NOT_* underwrite a *personal vehicle* until the owner has actual, *_physical, possession_* of the vehicle. - this has been asked a few times at the office.
The owner can contact the office and provide the VIN and first premium which allows an intent to bind liability; however, all that does is set-up a _conditional_ contract that only goes in-to force once the owner actually takes possession of the vehicle; until then, the first premium is held in the equivalent of an escrow account so if the sell doesn't complete then the insured gets their premium and accrued interest back (or if they prefer transferred against any other line they have with the office).
Commercial lines are a little different as the vehicle could be considered as part of a fleet-managed asset and I'm not entirely sure what the conditions would be to issue the certificate - I suspect, in this case, the underwriter wouldn't allow binding coverage until a company representative took possession of the asset.
> In short, you cannot insure something you do not own or have a legal interest in (renter's insurance doesn't insure the real-estate, that's the owner's responsibility, RI insures the renter's property that's in the property (TVs, jewelry, textbooks, etc...) (and in some cases, loss of use).
Well when the dealership called me on the phone and explained they wanted me to pay for the vehicle before I take delivery I would just ignore them. And if they sold the vehicle to somebody else and kept my $500 I guarantee you they're going to have issues. Hypothetically that is because I would never go to a car dealership to buy a car, EVER!!
I think these stealerships have an unofficial challenge to see who comes up with the most creative way to screw over customers
This is a really good story Steve... And well presented.
"This is about keeping the lights on...."!?! This dealership is about to go under! If they do, good luck getting your money back for a undelivered vehicle. This demand was made to me years ago. Two weeks later the finance floor plan was terminated. Two days after that, the sheriff locked the place up.
I loved that "We went to court and we blamed everybody too, but we got paid." Good for a laugh.
If that dealer is trying to make payroll and keep the lights on, I believe I once heard of this thing I think called a Small Business Loan, he might want to look into that
Could be his credit is so bad & having a one star rating of five, he might not be able to qualify for a loan.
@@jamessimms415 Only himself to thank for a one star rating.
What is a deposit if not an amount of money given to the seller to guarantee the vehicle will be held for sale to the depositor?
The dealer is assuming you're 1. stupid and 2. not a lawyer.
History just repeats itself. Those old enough might remember the 1979 "gas crisis". Folks would order a fuel efficient car, such as a Dodge Omni or Plymouth Horizon, then find delivery forever delayed or canceled by the dealer as the dealers would instead sell the car to someone else for a large markup (probably over SRP). Buyers had no recourse as purchase contracts were one-sided in the dealer's favor.
One-sided agreements should not be considered to be contracts!
Steve is great at pounding the law, pounding the facts, and pounding the table (a great story arc).
'Sure, I'll pay the balance. Just deduct delivery $ and dealer prep$ from the sales contract, I'll go get it myself and drive it home since it will become MY YUKON when you take my money.'
This is a problem I've noticed when I read the fine print (I read everything before signing). When you sign a purchase agreement and put down a deposit, the agreement usually lists penalties if the buyer backs out and cancels the purchase (up to forfeiture of the deposit). But it does not list any penalties if the seller backs out and does not sell the item to the buyer. That creates a one-sided agreement which restricts the buyer, but not the seller, which opens the process up for abuse. The seller can reneg on a deal with a buyer who put down a deposit, to sell to someone with a higher cash offer. But the buyer cannot do the same if they find someone else selling the same thing for less.
IMHO any deposit agreement should have reciprocity. If the agreement says the buyer loses the deposit if they back out, the seller should be penalized the same if they reneg (i.e. they have to return the deposit, and pay the buyer the equivalent of the deposit). If the seller wants to be able to shop the item around for a better buyer, they have to take the risk that they might not find a buyer. They should not be able to guarantee a buyer by signing a purchase agreement, then shop for another buyer willing to pay more knowing they have that original buyer as a safe fallback.
In the UK such a term is very likely to be considered unfair and therefore invalid.
Three examples of an unfair term as given by Government advice.
"by providing for excessive cancellation charges and automatic loss of all upfront payments
by creating unbalanced rights, eg being able to cancel a contract at any time, but requiring the customer to give 3 months’ notice
by allowing you to increase the agreed price at a later date"
One-sided penalties...Oh, HELL NO!
I will gladly pay you today for a Yukon next Tuesday let’s not get wimpy on this
😀😀
Not often one sees a "Popeye" reference. Nice!
Now that’s a good one!
You just admitted that you are old enough to have watched thousands of Saturday morning cartoons ...
@@georgemead6608 So? 🤨
Love your 'Legal Narration': Comedy Translation = Who's on First? by Abbott & Costello with "Two Tens for a Five" dealership and "7 x 13 = 28", again, according to Abbott & Costello
I would run, not walk, away from that dealer and find another vehicle. This deal really smells badly.
OF COURSE they'll make an exception-They know they're busted for shady practices!
This dealership should be shut down ASAP!
The dealership model should have been abolished altogether like 10 years ago
@@cat-.- And the dealer should be doing 10-25 years!
My parents ordered a custom vehicle and it apparently fell off a train during shipment to their dealership and it was totalled... so NO this is not okay.
How in the hell does a car fall off a purpose built rail; car?
@@woodrat2296 If it's not properly secured, quite easily. Even easier if the rest of the train falls off the tracks in the process. Hell, people have read package tracking info that legit says 'package fell into ocean'. Safety laws and regulations be damned, there are just some people in every industry that don't give a shit about doing the right thing. I've seen enough USCSB videos to know how little some people care (btw, those videos are detailed af, and the animators are great).
@@woodrat2296 It happened because dealers can get more for the car today than the price agreed upon last month. So it "Fell off a Train".
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 I still question how in the hell a car falls off a purpose built rail car? I worked at a Toyota plant in Cambridge and know full well how those vehicles are transported and what precautions are taken to secure those vehicles in transit.
@@woodrat2296 Trains do derail... there's even one famous TH-cam video of a train carrying cars and trucks hitting a semi at a level crossing with one of the vehicle it was transporting flying through the air.
in 1999 I ordered a 2000 VW Turbo Beetle and put a deposit on it. I was in the Navy and on Sea Duty which meant that I was either working up to a long cruise or doing drug ops. I needed a new car and it fit my needs at the time. I was pre-approved for a car loan from my credit union and was issued a check from the credit union for any amount below $25,000. I got tagged for a short cruise of about 90 days, during which time the car I ordered would come in. Long story short, yeah I paid for the car, got a purchase order, had it stamped 'PAID IN FULL', tapped my car insurance to add the VIN to my policy as a future car that would be on the policy and... I came back, the car had been delivered a few days before, I went in to pick the car up and was told "Yeah, we need another $15,500 for us to sell this car to you" and I pointed at the purchase order and the big red 'PAID IN FULL' and said 'Bring my car around'. 3 hours later, a demand by me for them to do their jobs and do the pre-delivery inspection and cleanup and even to the last moment the manager was all "I can't be out of pocket on this! Just give me, like, $2,000!" and I said 'You made that deal, you stamped the purchase order 'PAID IN FULL' and cashed that check. Gimmie my keys so I can get out of here". For the 2 years I got my preventative maintenance done for free there...but... only occasionally did they wash it afterwards, which was their normal thing.
Part of the problem is that the proposed buyer signed the agreement, however the seller didn’t sign the agreement. I’ve heard of dealers recently taking orders from a customer, getting a deposit, having the customer sign the agreement/contract and then asking for actually more money when the car finally arrives.
Moral: Make damn sure the dealer signs it also!
Yeah, thank you Steve. I'm glad I found you in my later 20s. I've only ever bought one car new and 2 from a dealer. 6 vehicles have been private sales since I left the army and found your channel. 1 prior to this new found information.
I had ordered a new Ford van, many years back, and the day after I ordered the van, the dealership called me and said they had written the order right, but did not charge me enough for that length wheel base vehicle, so they wanted me to come back in and sign a new contract, because this vehicle was going to cost more. I told them that, the reason I ordered the van from them, was because they were cheaper than the dealer nearby, so I was not going to pay more, and I have a signed contract and you have to get me the van, for the price quoted, and they did. It didn't show up as soon as it was supposed to, and I was afraid that over 400.00 dollars, they would try to screw me over.
Ah yes that is a common tactic but fortunately they're bound by contract of course they can cancel the contract but it's highly doubtful that they will. After all they're going to make massive amounts of money off you why would they turn that down.
You're right. New contract? No, I'm perfectly pleased with the one we have.
What happens if there's is an error with the VIN? You are now insuring a car that doesn't exist. What happens if they accidentally sell the car to another customer. I see so many things going wrong with this scenario. Car falls off a barge, do you think GM is going to cover it?
Or the dealer goes bankrupt.
Lol you just reminded me of the Golden Ray capsize in Georgia. Over 4000 new cars destroyed. Car falls of a barge indeed. Oh the insurance adjuster wants to inspect your car for damages. Sry its still in the St Simon river under 40 ft of water and 50 other cars.
I ran into this while dealing with a regional, deep discount RV dealer in NYS. I call to find an exact unit I want, and to see what is involved with ordering one? The tell me that there are no more being built that model year, but they have three units for STOCK, due to arrive shortly. They then tell me that to "hold it" since it is now a "special order" I will have to pay in full immediately, and title the unit BEFORE it arrives. I tell them that it will never happen. They reply that it is standard procedure, which I call bullshit on. They discuss it with the grand wizard behind the curtain, AKA "the manager" who tells me that it's fine, I can title it when I get there, but that I still have to pay ahead of time, since they need to see that funds clear.
I tell them that also isn't happening, but I will arrive with cash, certified funds or whatever method they want. They tell me that none of those are acceptable. I laugh and ask if they are also afraid of bank transfers? They said they probably couldn't do anything unless I paid in full a week or two ahead of time. I again repeat that it's not an option, since I'm not an idiot. I find out that they use the same bank I do. I then ask if they would call their local banker and ask how the hell it would be possible for my bank to scam themselves, with a transfer from one account to another? They finally agree to take a bank transfer. I arrive at the dealer, after they take delivery and do the prep. work. After I saw that it was correct and undamaged, I call my branch to complete the transfer of funds to their account. I leave with the RV and title.
The crazy part is that there really were dozens of customers a month, who were dumb enough to pay tens of thousands and more, in full, for RVs that were not even produced yet. As I was telling the dealer that they were out of their minds if they thought I would be so stupid, I ask what happens when the delivery hot shot rolls the new rig at 80 MPH on the interstate, and it's titled to the customer? They offered nothing but crickets, then "well you would have to ask your insurance company about that". I replied with another lol. I'm still stunned that I was an outlier and that so many of their new RV buyers were just so gullible, or even stupid.
@@kerrykerry5778 Your new RV was correct and undamanged!? You might be the only one like that these days. The horror stories abound about new RVs arriving with major defects because the factories are just shoving them out the door, finished or not.
@2:24 insuring a car I haven't yet taken possession is something I've done a few times. I've gotten a ride from Maine to Massachusetts with a Maine transit plate to put on a car I was buying there to then drive home. The transit plates will not be issued without insurance.
The VIN is assigned before the vehicle is built, that is what the whole process uses as a reference during assembly
This is an interesting exercise in pooch-screwing by the dealership. If a deposit doesn't guarantee that an agreement will be honored, it's going to be hard to get people to put down deposits.
I wonder if the dealer already had a secondary buyer lined up who was willing to pay more instead of going through the order process.
Car dealers are some of the biggest crooks in the world
Dealerships tend to be shady in most aspects of business. I've dealt with it a few times like adding the extended warranty without your knowledge. They don't anticipate that most buyers will look at the contract. If you've ever wondered why a dealership contract is so overwhelming, it's because many of these places engage in deceptive practices. They can say anything they want and if you don't read, and understand, the contract then most likely you'll have no recourse. It's always "Buyer Beware". Read that contract, and watch the finance manager sweat. 🤣🤣 I even had one get angry and confrontational because he had to rewrite the contract. He was caught and didn't handle it well.
Sounds like state needs to investigate. If dealership in deep shit because they are morons
I know when I ordered my 17 Camaro ZL1, I only had to deposit $100.00. That locked the ordered vehicle to me. No VIN was supplied at first since the vehicle was a custom order, I didn't receive the VIN till about 2 months before the vehicle was delivered. Even then the VIN was not appointed to any specific vehicle body as the vehicle wasn't built yet. The VIN determined how the vehicle was to be built since GM VIN's will match all of the options selected on the custom ordered vehicle. Total time of vehicle from order to deliver was almost 6 months. I was not expected to pay anything till I actually picked the vehicle up from the dealer. Many others went to the dealer to try and buy the vehicle from under me as the dealer I dealt with was only allotted 3-ZL1's for the year and I had ordered the last one they could get. Dealer never tried to sell the car from under me nor asked me to pay up front and that was a $68,000 car.
But.. COVID!
the tolerance of the dealership cartel is how i can tell Americans will eventually give up their freedom and rights over times.
That car is either damaged or they want to sell it for more to someone else....there's no other reason for them to not want to follow through with their agreement
I suspect the VIN is the first thing generated in the production process. It is probably generated when the job is scheduled, possibly weeks before any parts are bolted together.
I worked at a Toyota/Chrysler dealership in the early 90's. I do remember people coming there and doing a car count/inventory. I think they told me it was the bank that did inventory. It annoyed me because they put a mark on the headlights with a marker when they counted the vehicle. I was in charge of the reconditioning crew and we had to remove the marks from all 200+ vehicles.
That was part of what they call a "floor planning" financing arrangement with the bank.
Just a few months ago I had put $500 down for a w/c van that was in another state we had to wait a week for it to be delivered to this local dealer that specialized in w/c vehicles. 10 days later was told it was here but needed some work. A few days later went down unannounced to visit my van. That's when I found out they set me up for a bait and switch. When I asked where my blue van was the manager pointed to a white van and said here it is. He insisted I bought this white van which only had 47,000 miles on it with a big but it only had one service record on it and that was when it left the 1st owner and the auction buyer bought it. This would be a better van with this low mileage. Being a record keeper I had the proof of what I was buying. But this Bait and Switch is a real thing. Found another w/c van we are happy with just one more repair and it will be good to go and go and go. Used cars mean you will need to be prepared to repair a few things.
What if he paid for it, insured it, and the dealer went out of business before delivery? The vehicle never arrives and is impounded or stored at some unknown location.
I work at an automotive manufacturing facility for one of GM’s competitors, but if their system is anything like ours, I can tell you that the existence of a VIN doesn’t mean it’s even been built. The VIN usually exists in software well before it’s been stamped onto parts. If someone fucks up in the paint shop and it gets sprayed with the wrong color, or it fails at certain steps within the process, more often than not they crush the vehicle and recycle the scrap for regulatory reasons. The interior parts, and drivetrain can be used in another vehicle, but they usually get one shot at the body and frame, and if the build isn’t completed, they just scrap that VIN because it’s documented somewhere as not being built to make sure those parts don’t make their way into other vehicles. So, if that happened to this guy’s vehicle, the OEM’s inventory management system would likely update the dealership with a new VIN for that order. The vehicles moving down the line are all in order by VIN, so they wouldn’t try to slip a do over back into the line, because part of the VIN includes a portion used to track the date of manufacture, so if they had a problem with a part from a specific vendor that failed to pass inspection, they know when they were used, and how many were used and they can quarantine those vehicles based on the VIN number, and fix the issue before it gets to a customer.
I know that was a bit of a tangent for that very specific detail, but I figured I’d mention that until the vehicle has passed final QC inspection, it’s not built. Again, I don’t work for GM, but I can’t imagine their process is that different from ours, but if it is, I’m sure one of the GM guys in your audience will correct me.
Big problem right now across the country is, both the manufacturer websites and the dealer websites are listing vehicles "in transit" when that really wasn't a big thing before the pandemic. So anyone can see this customer's Yukon on both the dealer site and the GMC Yukon site. And as such, they can offer the dealer $X to buy it, because it is not indicated as a customer-ordered (committed purchase) vehicle. You can see the full vehicle sticker, which includes the VIN - and the VIN is assigned when the manufacturer schedules the vehicle for production, not after it's built.
Right now, the GMC Yukon website notes the dealership in Davison MI has 6 Yukons and 2 Yukon XLs - all marked "in transit" - showing the VIN and dealer stock number of each. So this customer's truck is one of these 8. But because there's no designation the vehicle is a customer order, I could offer to buy it from under them if I pony enough cash to the dealer. With the current supply and demand problems of new vehicles, there are people likely willing to do just that. An ethical dealer won't accept such an offer unless/until the ordering customer backs out of the purchase (and said customer may have done so prior to the vehicle being shipped because it took too long). A less scrupulous dealer will accept offers and if a potential customer really puishes their chips to the center, that dealer may indeed sell the vehicle from under the ordering customer, taking the extra cash.
For years, since I stopped buying trucks from *on hand inventory* dealer stock instead of ordering EXACTLY what I want, I have kept track of how long it takes to receive said truck (even RV's). Aside from a $500 deposit, which seems quite low, as soon as my frame was issued a serial/vin number, I was notified, generally 2-4 weeks. THIS is what will show up on the final draft of the contract. Until then, it's basically a promissory type note that I will purchase a vehicle with said equipment/color/etc. I've even traded an older vehicle for a new one, signed the contract and THEN be told AFTER 2 WEEKS & 250 miles, that the contract needed to be re-written (to a higher interest rate/term). I drove the new truck back, seen my trade still sitting there which told me they had an issue on their end (illegal to sell trade until new paperwork was square). I went in to the dealer, laid the keys on the sales managers desk, listened to their spiel why they *couldnt* stick to the original contract or give me my old keys back, took out my spare keys, walked out took my trade back & NEVER heard back from them... have never since gave that dealership a good word.
I used to be in sales, the company sold flooring, mostly residential, they had multiple locations (9 or more). How we normally did things was we would get a 50% deposit. The reason being, you might out a carpet you love, we put an order in, it is not a matter of putting it back in stock, it might sit there for 10 years.
I got another job, but stayed on with this company because, I had a huge client list, and I could go in a couple nights a week and do pretty well. One day, they say they need payment in full for all orders. We could give a discount if they paid cash (i.e. a check up front instead of using a credit card). It didn't seem too Crazy, Home Depot had the same policy. I start checking on some orders, that aren't being shipped, they show in inventory at the Mill. I decide to make a phone call, why isn't the product being shipped?
It turns out we had no credit with them, and every order had to paid upfront or wouldn't be shipped, they weren't paying for anything. Just taking people's money. Personally I didn't like the discount thing for people paying cash/check because I figured it would screw with my commissions. I ended up doing refunds on all the credit card orders I took, and called the people with a story, they discontinued the material or something, whatever I could think of. Chances are they would have gotten the money back eventually, but who knows.
Company was going bankrupt, they just wanted to pay out some bonuses or what not and screwed everyone else
I just bought a car last Friday. I have it and I’m glad it didn’t go the way of this gentleman’s experience.
Well this hits close to home. If it is who I think it is, they also committed some type of bait and switch scam to get people to come in.
Mailed out a key and or code reader or something, said if it says winner you get so much money in gold... well my mom won and got a scratch off.
I don't know why I watch this and am subbed, I'm in the UK and none of this stuff is relevant to me but I just can't stop lol
I purchased a Porsche in California that was ordered from the factory. I took delivery of the vehicle at the Porsche Experience Center in Los Angeles. Dealership was in Rocklin (NorCal). The paperwork was all completed about a week before I took delivery, including insurance. So clearly you can do that. My insurance company had no issue saying that the insurance started the day I was going to take delivery.
So...do you get a loan for a vehicle that you won't actually have? The repo folks wouldn't know where to find it.
I used to work at a dealership. Even after the franchise was wholly owned (financing paid off) we couldn't accept anything more than the deposit required by the manufacturer prior to delivery. It's sleazeballs like this that make the whole process look horrible to buyers.
I found Ben without reading the comments. *pats self on back*
Need it for money to pay the bills... also... we would unwind the deal if it wasn't like new. If they are already making it clear they are robbing Peter to pay Paul, I have no assurance that they could come up with money to unwind the deal if the car wasn't like new.
I'd bet a hundred bucks that the insurance company would let you pay for insurance on the vehicle you haven't received yet, BUT, if you need to make a claim on it, I'll bet a THOUSAND dollars, they'd deny the claim.
I worked in the Fleet truck portion of the new car/truck market for many years. The VIN is available as the build is progressing and dealers use it to track production. The vehicle must be delivered to either the dealer or an upfitter before it actually is passed into the possession of the dealer. Technically the dealer can't process the title until the vehicle has been delivered to them, offcially. I've never heard of a lender funding a loan before the vehicle is ready to be taken possession of by the customer. The end of the contract is only reached when the vehicle is deliverable to the end-user/owner. Large fleets will not and do not transfer any money until the vehicle has been inspected or approved by their personnel or representative agent, such as a leasing company. Companies like Exxon/Mobil buy all the way down at Net, Net, Net prices, and if you think they are paying a second earlier than they have to the dealer is just fooling themselves. The video example sounds like a salesperson wanting to get paid their commission before the car is delivered, given the dates given for the requested payment. Perhaps the dealer is upset over a customer who refused to allow the dealer to acquire the financing and make more money. Dealers hate it when you take one of their revenue streams, profit, financing, dealer sold products such as accessories, or extended warranties.
Here in the UK there are reports of used car prices higher than new cars due to delivery issues. Some used cars are up 30%. We purchased a 2018 Ford for £9000 in late 2021. Similar age and spec cars now advertised for £11-12,000.
When I bought my wife’s new Bronco Sport this year, i has to finance and pay for as soon as Ford issued the Vin. They said that was the only way I could guarantee that vehicle. Now this was NOT one I ordered, but one I found online though a dealership that did not charge above MSRP. Neither the dealership nor our lender required us to insure the vehicle before we took possession of her new bronco. I already have full coverage on a truck so driving it home was not an issue either. Just my experience, I understand since I was not the original person who has that vehicular ordered why I has to pay in advance. On the other foot, I now currently have a 2022 Bronco on order though another dealership, I did not put anything down, but since I ordered it, I couldn’t see myself paying for it before I took delivery.
Paying insurance for a vehicle they don't even have yet sounds like they are trying to pull "You insured it. If it arrives broken, it's your problem".
Good information Steve.
Unfortunately, MOST people could not care less what happens to someone buying a vehicle worth more than their house. My first thought was, "Oh no. dude has to wait longer for the car worth more than my house. Poor him will he be ok?"
Steve is the best !
Would’ve told ‘em to pound sand and to RETURN the $500 deposit immediately!
Most dealers are now making the deposits NON REFUNDABLE, but you can keep it on "the books" toward another car within a year
Maybe I missed something , if the dealership accepts payment in full before the vehicle is in its inventory and it does not get logged into the police book, and then arrives and immediately given to the buyer on arrival and still not logged into the police book, is it then untraceable to tax authorities? Or with a slight of hand, can the dealer claim that the purchase was made out of state using the excuse that the buyer already paid and had insurance on the vehicle as proof upon its arrival.
Wait, they could be pocketing the taxes this way. What others have commented is true: this dealership needs to be audited thoroughly.
Can you even get a loan without VIN. I'd stay away for that dealership!! That the day 20 cars are out on test drives!!!
the VIN is not finalized until it actually ships to the dealership. the VIN you get before that in a dealership is not the actual VIN, but a similar "production VIN". its not the same as the consumer facing VIN, which is not finalized until the vehicle is actually shipped out of the factory.
Yes, you can get a loan before delivery. If you know the price of the vehicle, many banks will issue you a loan for that amount, or sometimes even for a little more.
@@dandelamatta8705 they don't issue the loan. They approve you. No bank is going to issue a 20 - 50k loan without the collateral being listed
@@deusvult6920 You are correct. They will approve a loan but they will not issue any payment or cut a check till they have the VIN and appropriate paperwork (Title).
I'm an underwriter for a credit union in Wisconsin. I will pre-approve an amount but won't give final approval for documents to be prepared until we have a VIN.
FWIW, the VINs are apparently assigned pretty early in the car build process. a friend has an F150 on order for delivery in 3-6 months and has his VIN.
It sounds like somebody needs their police book reviewed right now.
Given all the b******* you have to put up with I wonder why anyone wants to buy a new car
Back in 2021, in Florida, I went to one of my local Ford dealers to buy and/or trade in my vehicle on a new one. They said the same thing to me. They also tried to push me into trading in my vehicle and giving it to them and leaving me without a vehicle - that idea was absolutely crazy. AND, they could not even verify that I would get the next vehicle in line, they told me it could be months , even up to 6 months to a year. So, I would be without a car - that would even give them the right to sell my vehicle before even giving me the new one. Crazy!
With all the turbulence going on in today's economy, I wouldn't give money to anybody without delivery of goods. The ship it comes over on could capsize, chip shortage could leave it on a lot for months, or it could be accidentally delivered to another person like the Corvette (yeah...but I digress). Nothing is certain with the chaos going on today.
"Give me back my deposit and I will go to a dealer who isn't about to close their doors."
I had a career as a bankruptcy attorney and bankruptcy trustee over more than 40 years. There are so many red flags in this story that my advice to the would-be purchaser is to go down to the dealership, cancel the order and try to get his deposit back. Since the dealership has not delivered on time, there is at least a prospect of that, but don't hold your breath. If he were to pay the balance of the purchase price under these circumstances, first, he cannot get a loan secured by the vehicle because he has no interest in the collateral which the lender would accept, so he has to go cash out of pocket or pledge some other assets to secure a loan. Secondly, when he pays over his money, he has no prior claim on the vehicle. The vehicle is owned by the manufacturer until the dealer purchases it. The dealer is doing business with a "flooring" lender, who holds a security interest in the vehicle when it pays the manufacturer for its borrower, the dealer. When the dealer takes the buyer's money, he is supposed to send it to his lender, but if he uses part or all of it for other expenses, or just makes off with it, the lender claims the vehicle to get repaid. The buyer holds no claim in the vehicle and is just owed a refund by the dealership. If the dealership closes down or files bankruptcy, the buyer holds that classic legal position, being "shit out of luck". Even if the bankruptcy court is involved, pays the lender and recovers the vehicle, do you think it then goes to the buyer who paid for it? Well, no it doesn't. It gets sold off and the proceeds go to pay the "priority claims" of the bankruptcy dealer, which will inevitably be its delinquent taxes. So, run my dude, run. I once represented a party in this situation, and the proposed buyer got Zip. (The buyer's lawyer was not well educated to bankruptcy law, but had gotten into the matter in state court before bankruptcy was filed by the owner of the dealership. When the judge made his decision in open court, she almost fainted, and her client (the buyer) had to catch her as she dropped. No, I didn't represent the dealer. The buyer sued everyone who had anything to do with the dealership; my client was a glorified lot-boy and cousin the the dealer.)
At least with Ford, if you custom order a truck you get the VIN before it is even built. I ordered one and they gave me the VIN about a month before the scheduled build date. You can use the VIN to track the progress online, see when it's built when it shipped and when it gets delivered.
Ben - Between two cups, Steve's left.
But what about if they make someone pay for the vehicle then in sometime in the future they deliver him a vehicle, when does warranty start? When does the sale start? And what if it shows up with different options than customer wants? It is absolutely ridiculous.
That would void the purchase agreement. The purchase agreement is a contract, anything listed in teh agreement that does not wind up in the vehicle will need to be changed/added before the purchase is completed or it voids the agreement.
@@yunofunbut by paying and signing off then you finalized the purchase. That is an issue going back to say that is not what I ordered, well you signed off and paid so too bad.
Yes, The contract is equally binding to both parties. But a lot of these automobile seller contracts leave details solely to the discretion of the cellar or the manufacturer
Is anyone else thinking of, "He's fleeing the interview. He's fleeing the interview. "
Oh for Pete's sake. He's fleein' the interview. He's fleein' the interview!
My brother bought a truck that was not in inventory, and they completed the paperwork and then they sold vehicle to another customer. In the end, they delivers a different vehicle from another dealership three hours away and paid to drive it to the local dealership.
On order cars , or specifically ordered car. Are not on the books at the dealer but at the factory. And they are delivered to dealer for pickup from customer.
Like wheelchair lift put on a van. Everything else is a standard model that came off the line. But the dealership that ordered it gets a flat fee for handling the sale and doing paperwork. Including handing it into state.
Oh wow. That police book does bring up some serious questions .