These serves were so obviously illegal I find it incredible that a professional team could defend it. It's the dude's coach's fault, there's no way a professional coach should allow his player to serve like that. It's a matter of time before someone finally calls it. Just stop the frame at contact and see how obviously hidden the ball is.
you are 100%ly right. Me as a sponsor i would talk to the team, that they should really TRY not to cheat like that and the "Trainers" should do their work legally and not blaming the sponsors and the team in the game, when they are 100%ly not right... almost never seen way more wrong serves...
@@hipertracker the ball wasnt visible 100% of the time During the Server. And this is obligatoric in table Tennis Servers since many year yet. Some Player does this sometime, but he was extremely Hidden.
@@hipertracker the Angle of the camera was Bad to See it clearly. But from the Point of View of the counter Player the ball has to be 100,00 % visible. Normally He hast to vanish His arm after throwing the ball in the Air. His arm stays there to Hide the ball.
Der Tischtennis-Ball liegt auf dem Handteller. Die Hand, in der der Tischtennis-Ball liegt, muss sich oberhalb des Tisches befinden. Beim Hochwerfen des Balls muss dieser mindestens 16cm senkrecht hoch geworfen werden. Der Ball muss hinter der Grundlinie (hinter dem Tischtennis-Tisch) hochgeworfen und auch geschlagen werden. Der Ball darf nicht über dem Tischtennis-Tisch hochgeworfen werden, und nicht über dem Tisch geschlagen werden. Der Ball muss beim Hochwerfen und beim Schlagen für den Gegner sichtbar sein. Der Tischtennis Ball darf nicht verdeckt werden, zum Beispiel mit dem Arm. Der Ball wird mit dem Tischtennis-Schläger geschlagen, während der Ball herunterfällt. Der Tischtennis-Ball muss nach dem Schlag zuerst auf dem eigenen Feld auf dem Tischtennis-Tisch aufkommen und anschließend auf dem gegnerischen Feld des Tischtennis-Tisches. Beim Einzel darf der Tischtennis-Ball von jeder beliebigen Postition (linkes Feld, rechtes Feld) auf jede beliebige Position der gegnerischen Seite (linkes Feld, rechtes Feld) positioniert werden. Der Ball kann also sowohl gerade als auch diagonal gespielt werden. Der Aufschlag verstößt eindeutig gegen die Regel: Der Ball muss beim Hochwerfen und beim Schlagen für den Gegner sichtbar sein. Der Tischtennis Ball darf nicht verdeckt werden, zum Beispiel mit dem Arm. -> Der Ball wird eindeutig mit dem Arm und Oberkörper verdeckt.
@@Waldemar_K I would not argue for or against a specific rule, but in my opinion it is not a good direction when a sport starts decending into 'deceive, not honoroble, cheaters' terminology while talking about basically arbitrary technical rules. If large fraction of players are 'cheaters' why would anyone want to participate in such activity ? When dealing with rather arbitrary rules - rule is broken, penalty issued, move one to the next serve. In football analogy - one may issue a moral judgement when player simulates, or plays intentionally dangerously to opponent health, but for me there is no moral judgement in offside situation. Serve rules for me are in that second category.
@@dmitripogosian5084 you have right. I think that should be clear situations for umpires. Umpires need be strict with that and be sure what they need to do in this situations. That's should be that same case like double touch or whatever. Empire see this? Point for opponent . Next point please. The problem is umpires are mot sure/they can't see from theirs position what hapenning. Throw up minimum 16cm. And opponent have to see ball all the time. What is not clear?
The guy in blue clearly make a strong intent to hide the ball very often. Even a novice player can adjust their serve toss and body position in the spirit of fairness so the opponent can clearly tracking the ball plus the paddle from top to contact. Plus his gesture of jumping on the table , tore his shirt and yelling is out of place. This is Table Tennis competition, not MMA !
"im not afraid of the evil, im afraid of the silence of the good". there will always be players that do illegal things, that not is the problem, the problem is that the referees don't do anything
After now 6 years playing very regularly and in a team, I actually met the first opponent with an illegal serve I was annoyed by. Normally I don't care as much about illegal serves, as long as I can still return it. But his were really good with a lot of spin and hard to read anyway. What made it almost impossible is, that he was hiding the ball on or shortly before the contact with the bat. I had to learn over the distance of the match what his body movement looks like and learn the spin from that. This kinda worked by the last set, but it felt really wrong. I did tell him, that I don't think that's legal, but he denied it and said it's fine. I personally don't want to play against that, it feels unfair. I will avoid this player for now, which is a shame, because his skill was otherwise pretty good and I could learn playing against him.
One of my friends is left-handed and you can't see through his torso on the ball when he serves. I often tell him it's annoying but I can live with it. Then came a tournament and it turns out he played against a player that hid the contact point with his head. He finally got to taste his own medicine:D
Some tosses were fully invisible even from the camera view (when the opponent stood on the opposite side of the table), no wonder that the guy in red saw absolutely nothing but an oncoming ball.
@@hiddevanzalm272 look at 11:54. The ball is completely hidden from the camera by arm/body. The other player, who is standing even more to the left, has no chance to see the ball.
@@enibub incredible unsportsman-like and from stockerau. Shame for table tennis... Dont they train serves? And how do they train it? are the trainers blind??? So disgusting to play against players like that who are arguing without any argument because they just dont want play by the rules...
In all honesty, if the ITTF really wants to keep the rule they should do so in a more strict and objective manner as it is strange for one serve to be legal with certain referees. My take on this would be to put one camera on each corner (awway from the table but in a possible angle for the player, at the net level height) and demand that the contact point is visible from both the opponents side cameras, this way we can be sure of the visibility of the contact point from all positions.
the problem is... its a german "bundesliegaspiel" i mean they all speak german :D and here they havent enough money to set up all games with cameras ...
@@cyrax-vq5ur this isn't a bundesligaspiel in germany it's in austria ! you should brush up on your geography skills a bit. The referees had, as well as the players not there best day .
It's always the same players you have this kind of discussion with. However, I wonder why he was only given a red card after the game. In other sports, the discussion with the referee would have been enough to give him a red card.
@@Roland_4012 ему дали красную карточку не за обсуждение с судьями, а за то, что он запрыгнул на стол и порвал свою футболку. he was given a red card not for discussing with the judges, but for jumping on the table and tearing his shirt.
This is what happens when the officials let the service rules go uncalled for so long, and because of the ambiguity in rules interpretation by the ITTF.
This could have been titled the most annoying table tennis match ever. I've never seen so much time wasted between points (toweling off, stretching. complaining...).
The red card should be given by the referee for standing on the table, not for tearing his shirt. In short, the game seemed boring to me and with little level. The one in the blue shirt must learn to do legal services. It's a shame that his coach hasn't corrected him. His club and his manager are a shame in themselves. The one in the red shirt would have to be born again to have a body that allows him to move. His physical ability is nonexistent. Both teams chose the wrong sport, they would have to try theater classes, they would do much better there, mainly with drama.
Every single serve he does is illegal because he doesn't move his arm away. He's trying to argue he is not obstructing the other players view. That's not actually the rule for your arm, the very fact he deliberately leaves his arm hanging there makes it an illegal serve. Obstruction only applies to the rest of your body and head. "As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm shall be removed from the space between the server’s body and the net."
Exactly. "Space". It says The space between the net and the ball and everything above it. So he can hold his arm as long as the ball is above his arm. but tossing his Serve behind him or even hiding it with his body is a meme
@@samlook in the German international rules 6.5 on service and ITTF rules 2.6.4 it says „as soon the Ball been projected the servers free arm and hand shall be removed from space between the ball and the net. The space between the ball and net is defined by the ball , the net and its indefinite upward extension“ So my definition is more correct
@@DerReaperZockt Interesting, that is in fact what the ITTF has, other sources say net. It does still however say "as soon as the ball is projected". I still don't see how that leaves any window for your arm just hanging there. Although I guess a lawyer might find the technicality even though the intent is clearly that there is no way your arm can be close to obscuring the ball.
One of the pennant competitions that I play in the services of some of the players are obviously illegal, however as this competition has a social and friendly aspect to it I have made the choice to not get upset by the illegal serves but to learn how to deal with them, and I figure that by doing this it will ultimately help me deal with all types of serves when it comes time to play in tournaments. As one can not rely on umpires calling illegal serves this has helped me focus on returning all serves and not being distracted by wondering if someones serve is illegal or not.
The serves are purposely illegal. @11:32 Clearly illegal. The ball was behind his body and also covered by the person's arm. And that was from the camera's vantage point. From the opposite player's vantage point, it was even worse. @11:52, same exact issue. Why they called fault w/ that one and not the one at 11:32 shows that the refs were not adequately trained. There is also a delay of game on both sides on multiple occasions. @13:15 he continues illegal serves. @15:12 his opponent even says he doesn't see anything before the serve. He walks off camera saying the word, "Everything..." which I interpret as him saying that all the guy's serves are illegal. @18:00 player should've gotten a red card for throwing his racket. At any international event he'd of been given the red card immediately! The player needs to be re-trained on how to serve properly. He needs to pull his arm away when he serves. He also needs to avoid throwing the ball behind him.
If you want to get rid of illegal serves, 1 warning. Next two illegal serves, loss of point. Any after that, there is a loss of 2 points. In a game to 11, they'll learn a legal serve. Also, conduct a pre-tournament clinic for umpires and refs to refresh their memories.
I slowed it down to .25 speed. You can DEFINITELY see the ball clearly behind his entire body as the ball drops. There is no conceivable way the opponent can see that ball right before he hits it. At first it's so fast I couldn't really see it. But I did a freeze frame. It's behind his body not just his arm.
I did that too. It is hard to tell from the camera angle, but some looked fine to me, and some clearly illegal, and some hard to tell, but how did it get that far? It seems like he should have been made to change the serve a long time before that. It was clearly ingrained. And yes, the problem was the body, not the arm.
@@ewallt I did the same thing, but the trouble with the serves that you can see if that your angle is slightly different to the receiving player. In those cases, it looks like the arm lines up directly between the ball and the receiving player. This definitely needs a different set of rules.
This happens even at the highest level because a lot of players just accept it. Rereferees just have to pay more attention to illegal serves especially when the opponent calls them out.
Not firm enough! The player even threw his racket and didn't get any kind of warning. In a major international tournament w/ top world players, he'd have been given a red card. Then a second red card at the end, which would've given the other guy the win.
Help me guys, i really dont know whats wrong with Serdaroglus serve. Is there a rule that says you cannot cover the ball when its contacting your bat? Every serve looked fine to me, throwing the ball from an open hand, straight upwards, ball is thrown at least 30 cm every time... am i missing a rule i should know? Thanks.
Illegal servers are even more common in the lower level competition. And even worse in the hobby-games. There's people who dont even toss the ball but "rolls" it off their palm after the toss up motion. Its irritating but I try my best to train to just concentrate on the impact. The only thing that really irritates me are the people that hide the point of impact.
Unfortunately that kind of serve regularly pass as valid in international games. A right handed player would get away with this with no issues at all but because this guy is left handed it becomes an issue for the right handed guy. At 10:33 we can see that the serve is really not hidden from our angle but from where the right handed player stands it might be (just because he misses is no guarantee the serve is illegal, players are notorious to see others faults and ignore their own). The clip is focused on the lefty here but try to decide the other players serve at 8:33 from the right hand corner (where we and lefty stands) and you have basically the same issue. What many non international referees do to prepare is to try to check the serves maybe on internet before games. If there are multiple videos with no actions from international umpires it is likely that the serve will also pass in regional scenarios. It shall also be noted that the rules, as they are written, are not applied but in practice they are replaced by 'rule of thumbs'. The problem is generally much bigger in Europe than elsewhere.
as example just go to 11:53, make speed to 0.25 and stop at the moment when he hits the ball. not even the camera with far better angle can see it. It almost looks like he faces the table with his back.
The thing is, if anyone noticed, the blue guy is a lefty, which makes it even harder for the red guy to see the serve if its so close to the body or even behind it. The angle is even worse for the red guy. In contrast, a right handed player could do the same.
The key here is when you said, "even behind it." Rules state that the ball must be in front or in full view of the opponent. When the ball goes behind him, that's illegal. Problem is: EVERY serve goes behind him.
I probably wouldn't be able to follow all rules either if my opponent served illegally and his team behaved like that. Feels like it's clearly one side that behaves worse.
The service rules state that the player has a duty to ensure that his serve is clearly legal to the officials. Therefore if he doesn't make it clear then it is a fault. The problem is the inconsistency by the officials.
tbh honest watching Serdaroglu's 2 serves at 1-1 / 6-6, I'm not sure to understand where the problem is. Ofc the angle of vision is not the same as the receiving player, but for me the ball was visible at all time, the arm did not hide the contact nor the fall of the ball. I don't mean that all his serves were legit during the match, but his opponent protested big time on those two and I don't really get why...
unfortunately umpires are normally too weak to call service faults, if in doubt its a fault. The servers job is to make it perfectly clear to the umpire their serves without doubt are legal. The guys service is very similar to Par Gerell if you watch his serving videos, even from a wide angle you can still see his body shielding his serve.
I've become a table tennis enthusiast about 9 months ago. I praised the sport because of the cordiality of the sport. No arguing among the players, no fighting in the stands and no extensive confrontations with the umpires. I guess that perspective was conceived watching the Chinese and Japanese videos of league play and international play. This is chaos. I told friends you would never see a fight at a table tennis match or beer being thrown on opposing player/team fans. I'm not so sure now. As the sport continues to grow I wonder will it become crazy like other mainstream sports. Those fans coming over to table tennis from other sports expect these confrontations as entertainment. The culture of table tennis will be lost.
Bro this comment made me realise you’ve never been in a tournament at amateur level, every table often faces tough confrontation, I’ve seen this or even live this 100 times ! This is also what brings magic to the sport, fierce competition, edging the rules, everyone knows it can happen !!!
@@jameskinchen2148 the thing is evaluating a serve is SUPER subjective. Everyone thinks different about it, best is to teach youngsters not to hide it and that’s it, at some point there will no more players that are teach to hide
There is only a way to resolve this problem, going back to 2001 when this ridicolous rules on serves were implemented. No rule = same shit for all, without referee's discreetion (that usually don't understand nothing about played TT)
The left hand player in blue serves illegally as he after the ball toss he holds his right arm to block the receivers view of the ball contact point. This is deliberate in my opinion. I appreciate the rules are translated into different languages, but using my Table Tennis England version it says “ 2.6.6 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that he or she complies with the requirements of the Law and either may decide that a service is incorrect” The primary rule and responsibility for the legality of the serve is with the SERVER.!! Matches like this are degenerate when a player does not take this basic responsibility.
I don't think he would get away with that serve at international level. many top players legally try to make it hard to see their service impact/spin. this bloke is just pushing his luck. wish i knew what they were all saying. Ref should have called him every serve
Its a problem on the margins of legality that is exacerbated when a left handed server does a hook serve vs. a right handed player. I have a recording of the same thing happening to me on my channel, albeit at a very low level in comparison
In high tension on final, provocation can be intense to make the mentality opponent down. I'm not sure it's illegal or legal serve because it just look at one direction, many people can have own argument. Anyway the rules of serve on table tennis must clear and accurate. Maybe we need VAR or hawkeye like on football or another sport.
They need serve judges sitting behind the two players to get a better angle like line judges in tennis. Hard with the lack of money in TT but maybe it'll help
поставьте видео на 10:50, настройте скорость воспроизведения на 0,25 и наблюдайте. В момент удара по мячу его можно спокойно наблюдать. Не понятно, что не устраивает соперника. Подала вполне легальная. Но, если вы сделаете то же самое на 11:31, тогда ситуация меняется, David прячем подачу рукой и телом.... set the video to 10:50, set the playback speed to 0.25 and watch. At the moment of hitting the ball, it can be safely observed. It is not clear what does not suit the opponent. Filed quite legally. But if you do the same at 11:31, then the situation changes, David hides the hand and body.
The problem at higher levels is not so much the arm as the head, which can be difficult to call with certainty from the side. Serdaroglu's serve is illegal for this reason. Slatinsek's serve toss passes behind the arm, head and body of the server making it particularly easy to penalise. I think all professional TT games should have an end judge who can rule on issues such as serve visibility, toss verticality, edge touches and the like. When the rule was originally brought in, it was made clear that it was the job of the server to show that the ball was clearly visible and the umpires were to call fault on anything they were unsure about. That got watered down over time to the situation we have now, where umpires only call the most blatant abuses and even then receive huge pushback for doing so. This is one area where turning back the clock would be a significantly positive step for the game. It is an issue even in the lowest leagues and needs to be called out for what it is - CHEATING, pure and simple!
I watch some comments explaining the ball is behind the body or whatever. Even before that the serve is illegal. The racket as to be up to the table when you serve, you’re not allowed to hide it under the table. Just for that is illegal, all the rest just add drama
Noone mentioned the problem from the referee's angle so i guess i'll do it. It's mentally hard for referees to jump in and break every point because you will become known for stickler to the rules / too strict and you get into trouble / don't get called up next match. Referees mostly just want to concentrate on score keeping and not stopping the game every four balls and fight with the players. Same with tennis, where there are way too many discussions in lower levels about the in / out bounces etc. A referee seldom gets paid unless doing higher levels (well, maybe he'll get a sandwich / coffee), and it's hard to argue with professionals esp. if you yourself is not a good player. But still, it sucks, perhaps some sort of AI hawkeye can be implemented at some point which will check the service legality automatically
The ball should be placed in the palm of the hand flat. The ball should be tossed in the air, at least 6 inches or more, as close to vertical as possible. The ball should remain in sight and not hidden by the serving players arm or body. If you watch the server, he tosses the ball in the air and the ball is thrown up in a motion where it goes towards his body, trying to disguise the skin on the ball for the opponent to receive serves. Hope that makes sense.
@@yarsille1335 BTW, what does it mean 'in sight' ? Does it not depend on the position of the receiver ? What if it hides under the table, will any serve be illegal ?
It's so disappointing if your opponent making illegal serve and no one not even the umpire calling it illegal. it's like, it's ok to do travelling in basketball, or hand ball in football.
lot of serve is not vertical, you can't draw the ball on you when you launch it, lots of player ignore that and the blue guy make lot of time this fault too. What a boring match to watch, play and that's it.
The onus is on the players, coaches, but most importantly, on the ITTF referees themselves to seriously enforce the rules. I know ITTF don't want to delay the games because of the compactness of the tournament schedule. The player with the blue shirt practically had his right arm on the table at all time prior to the toss on EVERY SERVE. If I am the referee, he would be tossed out of the match way before the first set ended. Simple as that. Still, I would rather as a fan or a player that everyone behaves according to the rules of the game to uphold sportsmanship. When I see at least 2 or more serving fouls by someone even before the ball was tossed, I immediately lost interest, especially when they are the top professionals who should known better.
Игроки и судьи являются заложниками невнятных правил. Нужно отменить требования, которые практически все нарушают. Оставить одно основное требование - подавать подачу с расстояния 1 метр от стола. Нарисовать линию, за которую нельзя заступать.
It's funny I see this now. I'm in vietnam traveling, and almost every player has a very illegal serve. Back home in the USA, most club players have illegal serves. Even 2000 level players. Table tennis has one rule only to follow. A legal serve takes 5 minutes to learn. Very few trainers in the USA teach their student legal serves. Tournaments are full of uncalled illegal serves. The truth is, seasoned players know the rule, know how to serve legally, but pull out the illegal serve when the game is tight. That's is generally called cheating.
3:54 Obviously illegal. No discussion about it. I have had that happen to me as well. I just play competitively for fun. If my opponent doesn't want to serve legally, I will simply not play. For me it's as easy as that. If that means I have to forfeit, I do so. I do not have time for this bullshit. The fact that these rules are not even applied on pro level is just embarrassing. Seems like none of these people in the room have a clue about the rules.
I think that should be clear situations for umpires. Umpires need be strict with that and be sure what they need to do in this situations. That's should be that same case like double touch or whatever. Empire see this? Point for opponent . Next point please. The problem is umpires are mot sure/they can't see from theirs position what hapenningThrow up minimum 16cm. And opponent have to see ball all the time. What is not clear?
It used to be a charm of tt. Some players had "magic" serves and everyone was fine with it. There is nothing magic about them, some players just had really fluid serve motions to disguised them as such. This problem comes up mostly when left vs right. Guy in red t-shirt just need to position himself more to the right when other guy is serving and he would see the ball just fine. Also leftie vs leftie matches can sometimes look odd. And that is because there so many more right-hand players in the World. EDIT:Do it like Waldner and Ma Long = adapt
The idiot bouncing the ball on the floor,table before serving annoys me....I would either ask the player,ref is that a serve or request that diot tells me when hes ready to do the first action of a serve. If that fails,as a backup , I would bounce the ball for about 2 minutes until the idiot got the message, and if not, simply, let the whole thing blow up! Then we might get an even playing field!!
To better enforce the rules, penalties such as red or yellow cards should have effects that carry over into future matches and possibly the entire season. Otherwise, self-interested players such as the guy in blue will continue to exploit vagueness in the rules and applications of rules. It's the same logic exhibited by cheaters and free riders and studied in economic games. In the last round, the "rational" player will be greedy because there is no chance of retaliation in the next round.
Well, it would be nice for someone to explain why the serves were illegal. Would have been too much to ask from the content creator to add this piece of info.
As the receiver just catch the illegal service instead of playing the illegal serve. Call "let" loudly as you catch the ball and protest the illegal serve to the umpire. Let the umpire know you will not tolerate shabby or lazy enforcement of the service rules. Have your coach formally protest the officiating to the ITTF in writing. Should we just go back to the days of finger spin services and all the other chicanery?
That is the rule: 2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
This is clearly an illegal serve. You are supposed to throw the ball vertically. He is throwing the ball from the left to the right Also he is hiding the ball when hitting it so that a double whammy on the illegal side
Bring back hidden serves, so that everyone is on the same page. What's the point in having a rule that is impossible to enforce and is flouted at every level of the sport
Forever there will be Players that are idiots and think that they have the right to make illegal serves. My coach once said: don't discuss with umpire or referee! I play in a low league and vaguely 50% of the serves are not made like the rules are stating. I don't complain anymore.
These serves were so obviously illegal I find it incredible that a professional team could defend it. It's the dude's coach's fault, there's no way a professional coach should allow his player to serve like that. It's a matter of time before someone finally calls it.
Just stop the frame at contact and see how obviously hidden the ball is.
you are 100%ly right. Me as a sponsor i would talk to the team, that they should really TRY not to cheat like that and the "Trainers" should do their work legally and not blaming the sponsors and the team in the game, when they are 100%ly not right... almost never seen way more wrong serves...
Sorry for being lame, but what exactly was wrong with that strongly spinned serve?
@@hipertracker the ball wasnt visible 100% of the time During the Server. And this is obligatoric in table Tennis Servers since many year yet. Some Player does this sometime, but he was extremely Hidden.
@@hipertracker Minimum His arm hides the ball from the opponents eyes. Sometimes the Body also does...
@@hipertracker the Angle of the camera was Bad to See it clearly. But from the Point of View of the counter Player the ball has to be 100,00 % visible. Normally He hast to vanish His arm after throwing the ball in the Air. His arm stays there to Hide the ball.
Der Tischtennis-Ball liegt auf dem Handteller.
Die Hand, in der der Tischtennis-Ball liegt, muss sich oberhalb des Tisches befinden.
Beim Hochwerfen des Balls muss dieser mindestens 16cm senkrecht hoch geworfen werden.
Der Ball muss hinter der Grundlinie (hinter dem Tischtennis-Tisch) hochgeworfen und auch geschlagen werden. Der Ball darf nicht über dem Tischtennis-Tisch hochgeworfen werden, und nicht über dem Tisch geschlagen werden.
Der Ball muss beim Hochwerfen und beim Schlagen für den Gegner sichtbar sein. Der Tischtennis Ball darf nicht verdeckt werden, zum Beispiel mit dem Arm.
Der Ball wird mit dem Tischtennis-Schläger geschlagen, während der Ball herunterfällt.
Der Tischtennis-Ball muss nach dem Schlag zuerst auf dem eigenen Feld auf dem Tischtennis-Tisch aufkommen und anschließend auf dem gegnerischen Feld des Tischtennis-Tisches.
Beim Einzel darf der Tischtennis-Ball von jeder beliebigen Postition (linkes Feld, rechtes Feld) auf jede beliebige Position der gegnerischen Seite (linkes Feld, rechtes Feld) positioniert werden. Der Ball kann also sowohl gerade als auch diagonal gespielt werden.
Der Aufschlag verstößt eindeutig gegen die Regel: Der Ball muss beim Hochwerfen und beim Schlagen für den Gegner sichtbar sein. Der Tischtennis Ball darf nicht verdeckt werden, zum Beispiel mit dem Arm.
-> Der Ball wird eindeutig mit dem Arm und Oberkörper verdeckt.
Clearly illegal, with a strong intention to deceive the opponent. Not honorable to win like this.
20 years ago it would be perfectly fine and he would be praised for excellent serve
@@dmitripogosian5084 I think this is change for better. Now that's more clear Games. Not this
@@dmitripogosian5084 As a former table tennis player who played for my country 25 years ago, you're right.
@@Waldemar_K I would not argue for or against a specific rule, but in my opinion it is not a good direction when a sport
starts decending into 'deceive, not honoroble, cheaters' terminology while talking about basically arbitrary technical rules. If large fraction of players are 'cheaters' why would anyone want to participate in such activity ? When dealing with rather arbitrary rules - rule is broken, penalty issued, move one to the next serve. In football analogy - one may issue a moral judgement when player simulates, or plays intentionally dangerously to opponent health, but for me there is no moral judgement in offside situation. Serve rules for me are in that second category.
@@dmitripogosian5084 you have right. I think that should be clear situations for umpires. Umpires need be strict with that and be sure what they need to do in this situations. That's should be that same case like double touch or whatever. Empire see this? Point for opponent . Next point please.
The problem is umpires are mot sure/they can't see from theirs position what hapenning.
Throw up minimum 16cm. And opponent have to see ball all the time. What is not clear?
The guy in blue clearly make a strong intent to hide the ball very often. Even a novice player can adjust their serve toss and body position in the spirit of fairness so the opponent can clearly tracking the ball plus the paddle from top to contact. Plus his gesture of jumping on the table , tore his shirt and yelling is out of place. This is Table Tennis competition, not MMA !
Ma Long jumped on the table in 2015
@@alexdelarge5703 and he isn't ma long
@@alexdelarge5703 It's a pointless argument. Not looking at the context of the situation
"im not afraid of the evil, im afraid of the silence of the good".
there will always be players that do illegal things, that not is the problem, the problem is that the referees don't do anything
After now 6 years playing very regularly and in a team, I actually met the first opponent with an illegal serve I was annoyed by. Normally I don't care as much about illegal serves, as long as I can still return it. But his were really good with a lot of spin and hard to read anyway. What made it almost impossible is, that he was hiding the ball on or shortly before the contact with the bat. I had to learn over the distance of the match what his body movement looks like and learn the spin from that. This kinda worked by the last set, but it felt really wrong.
I did tell him, that I don't think that's legal, but he denied it and said it's fine. I personally don't want to play against that, it feels unfair. I will avoid this player for now, which is a shame, because his skill was otherwise pretty good and I could learn playing against him.
One of my friends is left-handed and you can't see through his torso on the ball when he serves. I often tell him it's annoying but I can live with it. Then came a tournament and it turns out he played against a player that hid the contact point with his head. He finally got to taste his own medicine:D
happens in my club to ,they always deny it
Some tosses were fully invisible even from the camera view (when the opponent stood on the opposite side of the table), no wonder that the guy in red saw absolutely nothing but an oncoming ball.
Do you have a time stamp?
@@hiddevanzalm272 look at 11:54. The ball is completely hidden from the camera by arm/body. The other player, who is standing even more to the left, has no chance to see the ball.
@@enibub incredible unsportsman-like and from stockerau. Shame for table tennis... Dont they train serves? And how do they train it? are the trainers blind??? So disgusting to play against players like that who are arguing without any argument because they just dont want play by the rules...
Well i dont know much about the rules. However i would say better seeing a ball coming at you rather than a paddle? Hard to return a paddle??!!
In all honesty, if the ITTF really wants to keep the rule they should do so in a more strict and objective manner as it is strange for one serve to be legal with certain referees. My take on this would be to put one camera on each corner (awway from the table but in a possible angle for the player, at the net level height) and demand that the contact point is visible from both the opponents side cameras, this way we can be sure of the visibility of the contact point from all positions.
the problem is... its a german "bundesliegaspiel" i mean they all speak german :D and here they havent enough money to set up all games with cameras ...
@@cyrax-vq5ur this isn't a bundesligaspiel in germany it's in austria ! you should brush up on your geography skills a bit. The referees had, as well as the players not there best day .
It's always the same players you have this kind of discussion with. However, I wonder why he was only given a red card after the game. In other sports, the discussion with the referee would have been enough to give him a red card.
@@Roland_4012 ему дали красную карточку не за обсуждение с судьями, а за то, что он запрыгнул на стол и порвал свою футболку. he was given a red card not for discussing with the judges, but for jumping on the table and tearing his shirt.
Right on. VAR is due here
His arm was at such a calculated angle and placement that it's difficult to say he did not practice it.
Agree 1000%
Looks legal to me
This is what happens when the officials let the service rules go uncalled for so long, and because of the ambiguity in rules interpretation by the ITTF.
This could have been titled the most annoying table tennis match ever. I've never seen so much time wasted between points (toweling off, stretching. complaining...).
From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or by anything they wear or carry.
The red card should be given by the referee for standing on the table, not for tearing his shirt. In short, the game seemed boring to me and with little level. The one in the blue shirt must learn to do legal services. It's a shame that his coach hasn't corrected him. His club and his manager are a shame in themselves. The one in the red shirt would have to be born again to have a body that allows him to move. His physical ability is nonexistent. Both teams chose the wrong sport, they would have to try theater classes, they would do much better there, mainly with drama.
1% play table tennis, 99% drama
Austria in a nutshell
illegal serve because he didn't get off his arm after tossing the ball, he frequently did hiding the ball through his arm that player in black shirt.
Every single serve he does is illegal because he doesn't move his arm away.
He's trying to argue he is not obstructing the other players view.
That's not actually the rule for your arm, the very fact he deliberately leaves his arm hanging there makes it an illegal serve.
Obstruction only applies to the rest of your body and head.
"As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm shall be removed from the space between the server’s body and the net."
Exactly. "Space". It says The space between the net and the ball and everything above it. So he can hold his arm as long as the ball is above his arm. but tossing his Serve behind him or even hiding it with his body is a meme
Its funny how even the camera angle is unable to see the serve. 11:53 for example his elbow is clearly covering his serve
@@DerReaperZockt "body and net", not "ball and net"... Your arm has to go as soon as you toss the ball.
@@samlook in the German international rules 6.5 on service and ITTF rules 2.6.4 it says „as soon the Ball been projected the servers free arm and hand shall be removed from space between the ball and the net. The space between the ball and net is defined by the ball , the net and its indefinite upward extension“
So my definition is more correct
@@DerReaperZockt Interesting, that is in fact what the ITTF has, other sources say net. It does still however say "as soon as the ball is projected". I still don't see how that leaves any window for your arm just hanging there. Although I guess a lawyer might find the technicality even though the intent is clearly that there is no way your arm can be close to obscuring the ball.
One of the pennant competitions that I play in the services of some of the players are obviously illegal, however as this competition has a social and friendly aspect to it I have made the choice to not get upset by the illegal serves but to learn how to deal with them, and I figure that by doing this it will ultimately help me deal with all types of serves when it comes time to play in tournaments. As one can not rely on umpires calling illegal serves this has helped me focus on returning all serves and not being distracted by wondering if someones serve is illegal or not.
The serves are purposely illegal. @11:32 Clearly illegal. The ball was behind his body and also covered by the person's arm. And that was from the camera's vantage point. From the opposite player's vantage point, it was even worse. @11:52, same exact issue. Why they called fault w/ that one and not the one at 11:32 shows that the refs were not adequately trained. There is also a delay of game on both sides on multiple occasions. @13:15 he continues illegal serves. @15:12 his opponent even says he doesn't see anything before the serve. He walks off camera saying the word, "Everything..." which I interpret as him saying that all the guy's serves are illegal. @18:00 player should've gotten a red card for throwing his racket. At any international event he'd of been given the red card immediately! The player needs to be re-trained on how to serve properly. He needs to pull his arm away when he serves. He also needs to avoid throwing the ball behind him.
re-trained to serve properly, but also and foremost retrained to behave properly. His behaviour is downright pathetic.
If you want to get rid of illegal serves, 1 warning. Next two illegal serves, loss of point. Any after that, there is a loss of 2 points. In a game to 11, they'll learn a legal serve. Also, conduct a pre-tournament clinic for umpires and refs to refresh their memories.
I slowed it down to .25 speed. You can DEFINITELY see the ball clearly behind his entire body as the ball drops. There is no conceivable way the opponent can see that ball right before he hits it. At first it's so fast I couldn't really see it. But I did a freeze frame. It's behind his body not just his arm.
I did that too. It is hard to tell from the camera angle, but some looked fine to me, and some clearly illegal, and some hard to tell, but how did it get that far? It seems like he should have been made to change the serve a long time before that. It was clearly ingrained. And yes, the problem was the body, not the arm.
@@ewallt I did the same thing, but the trouble with the serves that you can see if that your angle is slightly different to the receiving player. In those cases, it looks like the arm lines up directly between the ball and the receiving player. This definitely needs a different set of rules.
@@ewallt By the way: "hard to tell" is enough for an umpire to warn the player and tell him to make clearly legal serves. That's what the rules say.
This happens even at the highest level because a lot of players just accept it. Rereferees just have to pay more attention to illegal serves especially when the opponent calls them out.
The referee was very firm in leading the match. Salute for the refree....
Not firm enough! The player even threw his racket and didn't get any kind of warning. In a major international tournament w/ top world players, he'd have been given a red card. Then a second red card at the end, which would've given the other guy the win.
The umpire and assistant umpire were put under intolerable pressure by the bad behaviour or both players, but particularly that of David Serdaroglu.
19:44 Bro i have laugh attack i cant even stop laughing. The guy is a legend
Help me guys, i really dont know whats wrong with Serdaroglus serve.
Is there a rule that says you cannot cover the ball when its contacting your bat?
Every serve looked fine to me, throwing the ball from an open hand, straight upwards, ball is thrown at least 30 cm every time... am i missing a rule i should know?
Thanks.
@@ZsebtelepHUN The ball is not visible all the time. U MUST see full trajectory from that fall.
An explanation as to what he did that made his serve illegal would be nice and logical if you post this video
Illegal servers are even more common in the lower level competition. And even worse in the hobby-games. There's people who dont even toss the ball but "rolls" it off their palm after the toss up motion. Its irritating but I try my best to train to just concentrate on the impact. The only thing that really irritates me are the people that hide the point of impact.
@ main questions and observations. #1. Umpire is in wrong position to see serve # 2. No overhead camera to observe if ball is contacted over table.
Unfortunately that kind of serve regularly pass as valid in international games. A right handed player would get away with this with no issues at all but because this guy is left handed it becomes an issue for the right handed guy. At 10:33 we can see that the serve is really not hidden from our angle but from where the right handed player stands it might be (just because he misses is no guarantee the serve is illegal, players are notorious to see others faults and ignore their own). The clip is focused on the lefty here but try to decide the other players serve at 8:33 from the right hand corner (where we and lefty stands) and you have basically the same issue. What many non international referees do to prepare is to try to check the serves maybe on internet before games. If there are multiple videos with no actions from international umpires it is likely that the serve will also pass in regional scenarios. It shall also be noted that the rules, as they are written, are not applied but in practice they are replaced by 'rule of thumbs'. The problem is generally much bigger in Europe than elsewhere.
as example just go to 11:53, make speed to 0.25 and stop at the moment when he hits the ball. not even the camera with far better angle can see it. It almost looks like he faces the table with his back.
12:00 definitely hidden. Even if the opponent was left handed the ball would be behind the servers arm
Does Ma long's serve ball is hidden by his face? is it illegal?
The thing is, if anyone noticed, the blue guy is a lefty, which makes it even harder for the red guy to see the serve if its so close to the body or even behind it. The angle is even worse for the red guy. In contrast, a right handed player could do the same.
Yeah you're right....there are a lot of lefty abuse that advantage against a right handed player..
@@plongskie2156 I hope, you're just kidding around, guys.
@@dmitrikonnov922 hahahhaha... Good to know no one is doing that on your place😁😁😁😁
The key here is when you said, "even behind it." Rules state that the ball must be in front or in full view of the opponent. When the ball goes behind him, that's illegal. Problem is: EVERY serve goes behind him.
both player are unfair. Towel break at the wrong time, too long waiting for the services. etc
I probably wouldn't be able to follow all rules either if my opponent served illegally and his team behaved like that. Feels like it's clearly one side that behaves worse.
Both did the Ma Long serves, who was called out a couple of times. It it wasn't a Par Gerell
The service rules state that the player has a duty to ensure that his serve is clearly legal to the officials. Therefore if he doesn't make it clear then it is a fault.
The problem is the inconsistency by the officials.
tbh honest watching Serdaroglu's 2 serves at 1-1 / 6-6, I'm not sure to understand where the problem is. Ofc the angle of vision is not the same as the receiving player, but for me the ball was visible at all time, the arm did not hide the contact nor the fall of the ball. I don't mean that all his serves were legit during the match, but his opponent protested big time on those two and I don't really get why...
Проблема подач решается легко: разрешить любые подачи с вертикальным подбросом.
unfortunately umpires are normally too weak to call service faults, if in doubt its a fault. The servers job is to make it perfectly clear to the umpire their serves without doubt are legal. The guys service is very similar to Par Gerell if you watch his serving videos, even from a wide angle you can still see his body shielding his serve.
I've become a table tennis enthusiast about 9 months ago. I praised the sport because of the cordiality of the sport. No arguing among the players, no fighting in the stands and no extensive confrontations with the umpires. I guess that perspective was conceived watching the Chinese and Japanese videos of league play and international play. This is chaos. I told friends you would never see a fight at a table tennis match or beer being thrown on opposing player/team fans. I'm not so sure now. As the sport continues to grow I wonder will it become crazy like other mainstream sports. Those fans coming over to table tennis from other sports expect these confrontations as entertainment. The culture of table tennis will be lost.
People who try to cheat the rules will always exist. No sport is immune to their presence. Just don't be one of them.
Bro this comment made me realise you’ve never been in a tournament at amateur level, every table often faces tough confrontation, I’ve seen this or even live this 100 times ! This is also what brings magic to the sport, fierce competition, edging the rules, everyone knows it can happen !!!
@@arnoenballe Edging the rules - aka cheating.
@@jameskinchen2148 the thing is evaluating a serve is SUPER subjective. Everyone thinks different about it, best is to teach youngsters not to hide it and that’s it, at some point there will no more players that are teach to hide
Chen Weixing on the red team? Is he coaching or playing
Everytime i watch this, i get non stop laugh attack 😂 the celebration of the guy is probably the best in table tennis History 😅
There is only a way to resolve this problem, going back to 2001 when this ridicolous rules on serves were implemented. No rule = same shit for all, without referee's discreetion (that usually don't understand nothing about played TT)
Almost all of the player in blue serves were foul serves as his arm was clearly covering the contact of the bat on ball
The left hand player in blue serves illegally as he after the ball toss he holds his right arm to block the receivers view of the ball contact point. This is deliberate in my opinion.
I appreciate the rules are translated into different languages, but using my Table Tennis England version it says “ 2.6.6 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that he or she complies with the requirements of the Law and either may decide that a service is incorrect”
The primary rule and responsibility for the legality of the serve is with the SERVER.!! Matches like this are degenerate when a player does not take this basic responsibility.
Thank you. The video didn't explain it and I was starting to get frustrated at the lack of narrative
I don't think he would get away with that serve at international level. many top players legally try to make it hard to see their service impact/spin. this bloke is just pushing his luck. wish i knew what they were all saying. Ref should have called him every serve
Its a problem on the margins of legality that is exacerbated when a left handed server does a hook serve vs. a right handed player. I have a recording of the same thing happening to me on my channel, albeit at a very low level in comparison
i think its illegal i just saw the hit point and it looks like his body is covering it
Super clearly illegal!!!...
@@plongskie2156 idk if your being sarcastic or not but he is literally facing the ball at point of contact
In high tension on final, provocation can be intense to make the mentality opponent down.
I'm not sure it's illegal or legal serve because it just look at one direction, many people can have own argument.
Anyway the rules of serve on table tennis must clear and accurate.
Maybe we need VAR or hawkeye like on football or another sport.
They need serve judges sitting behind the two players to get a better angle like line judges in tennis. Hard with the lack of money in TT but maybe it'll help
поставьте видео на 10:50, настройте скорость воспроизведения на 0,25 и наблюдайте. В момент удара по мячу его можно спокойно наблюдать. Не понятно, что не устраивает соперника. Подала вполне легальная. Но, если вы сделаете то же самое на 11:31, тогда ситуация меняется, David прячем подачу рукой и телом.... set the video to 10:50, set the playback speed to 0.25 and watch. At the moment of hitting the ball, it can be safely observed. It is not clear what does not suit the opponent. Filed quite legally. But if you do the same at 11:31, then the situation changes, David hides the hand and body.
The rule should be changed to move the throwing arm IMMEDIATELY after the toss in one movement without a pause. Easier to implement and enforce !
The problem at higher levels is not so much the arm as the head, which can be difficult to call with certainty from the side. Serdaroglu's serve is illegal for this reason. Slatinsek's serve toss passes behind the arm, head and body of the server making it particularly easy to penalise. I think all professional TT games should have an end judge who can rule on issues such as serve visibility, toss verticality, edge touches and the like. When the rule was originally brought in, it was made clear that it was the job of the server to show that the ball was clearly visible and the umpires were to call fault on anything they were unsure about. That got watered down over time to the situation we have now, where umpires only call the most blatant abuses and even then receive huge pushback for doing so. This is one area where turning back the clock would be a significantly positive step for the game. It is an issue even in the lowest leagues and needs to be called out for what it is - CHEATING, pure and simple!
I watch some comments explaining the ball is behind the body or whatever. Even before that the serve is illegal. The racket as to be up to the table when you serve, you’re not allowed to hide it under the table. Just for that is illegal, all the rest just add drama
Ich bewundere die Professionalität und die Gelassenheit des Schiedsrichters. Good job!
Noone mentioned the problem from the referee's angle so i guess i'll do it.
It's mentally hard for referees to jump in and break every point because you will become known for stickler to the rules / too strict and you get into trouble / don't get called up next match. Referees mostly just want to concentrate on score keeping and not stopping the game every four balls and fight with the players. Same with tennis, where there are way too many discussions in lower levels about the in / out bounces etc. A referee seldom gets paid unless doing higher levels (well, maybe he'll get a sandwich / coffee), and it's hard to argue with professionals esp. if you yourself is not a good player.
But still, it sucks, perhaps some sort of AI hawkeye can be implemented at some point which will check the service legality automatically
Left handed servers right arm never moved away. Video should have been much shorter and referee should have called it every time.
How about showing the serve in slowmotion and explain what the fault is?
its the way table tennis should not be
Did you explain the part that was illegal? I didn't catch that. And I don't know how to tell.
The ball should be placed in the palm of the hand flat. The ball should be tossed in the air, at least 6 inches or more, as close to vertical as possible. The ball should remain in sight and not hidden by the serving players arm or body. If you watch the server, he tosses the ball in the air and the ball is thrown up in a motion where it goes towards his body, trying to disguise the skin on the ball for the opponent to receive serves. Hope that makes sense.
@@yarsille1335 BTW, what does it mean 'in sight' ? Does it not depend on the position of the receiver ? What if it hides under the table, will any serve be illegal ?
It's so disappointing if your opponent making illegal serve and no one not even the umpire calling it illegal. it's like, it's ok to do travelling in basketball, or hand ball in football.
lot of serve is not vertical, you can't draw the ball on you when you launch it, lots of player ignore that and the blue guy make lot of time this fault too. What a boring match to watch, play and that's it.
최악의 경기.
무능한 심판
비매너 선수
역겨운 선수들, 퇴출시켜야...🤮😡
Thank you for the interesting ping pong news
是的，国际乒联应该收紧发球的规则，发球时应该完全暴露动作，任何疑似遮挡都必须认定为非法发球。
The onus is on the players, coaches, but most importantly, on the ITTF referees themselves to seriously enforce the rules. I know ITTF don't want to delay the games because of the compactness of the tournament schedule.
The player with the blue shirt practically had his right arm on the table at all time prior to the toss on EVERY SERVE. If I am the referee, he would be tossed out of the match way before the first set ended. Simple as that.
Still, I would rather as a fan or a player that everyone behaves according to the rules of the game to uphold sportsmanship. When I see at least 2 or more serving fouls by someone even before the ball was tossed, I immediately lost interest, especially when they are the top professionals who should known better.
It's not just his arm. He's hiding the contact with his body and tossing behind him.
@@rockys7726 There were multiple infractions on everyone of his serves. They were so obvious that I don't have to explain them at all.
Игроки и судьи являются заложниками невнятных правил. Нужно отменить требования, которые практически все нарушают. Оставить одно основное требование - подавать подачу с расстояния 1 метр от стола. Нарисовать линию, за которую нельзя заступать.
这个发球没有遮挡 谁能告诉我 哪有问题 球拍什么角度都没问题 不遮挡抛球够高
Illegal serves should be penalized even more severely with a point deduction or a point for the other player. Such errors must be very
Repetitive illegal serve should be penalized 2 points
It's funny I see this now. I'm in vietnam traveling, and almost every player has a very illegal serve. Back home in the USA, most club players have illegal serves. Even 2000 level players. Table tennis has one rule only to follow. A legal serve takes 5 minutes to learn. Very few trainers in the USA teach their student legal serves. Tournaments are full of uncalled illegal serves. The truth is, seasoned players know the rule, know how to serve legally, but pull out the illegal serve when the game is tight. That's is generally called cheating.
he turn his whole body to the directly opposite site ahahahahahahahaha
3:54 Obviously illegal. No discussion about it. I have had that happen to me as well. I just play competitively for fun. If my opponent doesn't want to serve legally, I will simply not play. For me it's as easy as that. If that means I have to forfeit, I do so. I do not have time for this bullshit. The fact that these rules are not even applied on pro level is just embarrassing. Seems like none of these people in the room have a clue about the rules.
why they keep touching the table?
so in the end did the guy in blue lose?
long time ago i remember the rule was just throw the ball up before you hit it. i don't know now but hiding the ball from view should be illegal
Many chinese players play with illegal service
Wang Chuqin and Lin Shidong
I think that should be clear situations for umpires. Umpires need be strict with that and be sure what they need to do in this situations. That's should be that same case like double touch or whatever. Empire see this? Point for opponent . Next point please.
The problem is umpires are mot sure/they can't see from theirs position what hapenningThrow up minimum 16cm. And opponent have to see ball all the time. What is not clear?
It used to be a charm of tt. Some players had "magic" serves and everyone was fine with it. There is nothing magic about them, some players just had really fluid serve motions to disguised them as such.
This problem comes up mostly when left vs right. Guy in red t-shirt just need to position himself more to the right when other guy is serving and he would see the ball just fine.
Also leftie vs leftie matches can sometimes look odd. And that is because there so many more right-hand players in the World.
EDIT:Do it like Waldner and Ma Long = adapt
If you cant see the ball and racket contact and you feel its an illegal serve then you shouldnt recieve it and just catch it with your hand.
Well, at least the table got cleaned pretty well.
A small notice of "thank you for the highlights" would have been appreciated🤧
one of the most entertaining moments in table tennis history
??
All his services constitute foul play. Seeing as Chen Weixing came out to protest, I don't think I need an explanation.
Slow the video to 0.25 and go to 15.06, the server hides the ball contact completely.
穿深藍衣服的球員球拍放在身後，只有接觸球時，才看到球拍觸球的拍面，當然犯規，如果ITTF 明確規定，發球者，必須讓對方看得到自己球拍，否則，判發球無效。
The idiot bouncing the ball on the floor,table before serving annoys me....I would either ask the player,ref is that a serve or request that diot tells me when hes ready to do the first action of a serve. If that fails,as a backup , I would bounce the ball for about 2 minutes until the idiot got the message, and if not, simply, let the whole thing blow up! Then we might get an even playing field!!
нарушений нет. одного напрягает, что он не может принять подачу другого. подача чистая. кроме эмоций все норм
To better enforce the rules, penalties such as red or yellow cards should have effects that carry over into future matches and possibly the entire season. Otherwise, self-interested players such as the guy in blue will continue to exploit vagueness in the rules and applications of rules. It's the same logic exhibited by cheaters and free riders and studied in economic games. In the last round, the "rational" player will be greedy because there is no chance of retaliation in the next round.
Wow whatever happened to your English? Its so much fluent. Did you join a legal English speaking class.
Well, it would be nice for someone to explain why the serves were illegal. Would have been too much to ask from the content creator to add this piece of info.
before we could hide the ball and no one was crying ^^
But the blue player have a illegal serve, sure
This is the most ive laughed from a TT video.
As the receiver just catch the illegal service instead of playing the illegal serve. Call "let" loudly as you catch the ball and protest the illegal serve to the umpire. Let the umpire know you will not tolerate shabby or lazy enforcement of the service rules. Have your coach formally protest the officiating to the ITTF in writing. Should we just go back to the days of finger spin services and all the other chicanery?
매번 손바닥 펴지 않고 서브넣고 마지막세트에서 하는 매너도 개매너....어케 저따구로 탁구를 하는지.....
ITTF should change the rule: After throwing the ball, player arm must go down immediately, there is no reason to keep it there
That is the rule: 2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
This is clearly an illegal serve. You are supposed to throw the ball vertically. He is throwing the ball from the left to the right
Also he is hiding the ball when hitting it so that a double whammy on the illegal side
reza fahrudin: 1% play table tennis, 99% drama
I'm playing with David Serdaroglu's used Dignics 05. It's still in good condition.
Bring back hidden serves, so that everyone is on the same page. What's the point in having a rule that is impossible to enforce and is flouted at every level of the sport
He is obscuring the ball as it falls to his racket, completely illegal. It is difficult to predict what kind of spin he used.
Forever there will be Players that are idiots and think that they have the right to make illegal serves.
My coach once said: don't discuss with umpire or referee! I play in a low league and vaguely 50% of the serves are not made like the rules are stating. I don't complain anymore.
His arm is hiding the ball contact ?