Very upset with the illegal table tennis serve
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Very upset with the illegal table tennis serve
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I kicked a player from the club once that was intentionally doing illegal serves - he got really pissed that I was calling him out on his serves, I made him just leave. He hasn't come back since...
He has every right to be upset. The ball has to be tossed "near vertically upwards" and the server was clearly not doing that.
Yes. I thought the problem came more from the ball toss (that btw helped him hide his serve) more than hiding you serve behind the shoulder or the head).
The problem is caused by the ball toss but is more about the ball being obscured from the opponents view at the point of contact!!! Not being able to see and therefore try to gauge the type of and also the amount of spin imparted on the ball is the real detriment caused by this type of illegal service to the receiver.
The ball's not supposed to be obscured at any time whatsoever, from the time it's on your palm to the moment of contact.
@@RatatRatR whilst that is completely true, but also hardly worth mentioning in so much as the rules are not in question..... only their rigid application or lack of. Refer back to my last sentence and the truth of the matter is laid out clear as day there. The 'not straight' ball toss whilst facilitating the hidden contact point is not what causes the opponent issues if left unchecked by the umpires, it is the hidden contact point!!
@@marcusshipley3935 Alright, great.
Referees should pull through hard. Its not like the "under the arm"-service from the 90s and 00s wasn't claimed illegal for no reason.... and at least in the top level the players know exaclty what they are doing by throwing ball behind the head etc. They are pros and they train these (more or less) illegal services. Players like Kun are the exception to call those stuff regularly ... and on a weired way it makes seem Kun as the bad guy - which he is not.
No, this guy’s serves are clearly illegal. Even those of great Walder are all illegal. Now the rule has changed. You can’t hide the ball throughout the movement until the service contact. And I agree this rule totally.
@@aalokatmaa1606 eh... He didn't disagree with you
The sad part is that this is not just at the pro level. Many amateur players, even in the lowest leagues, see the pros doing this and put time and effort into copying them. It is long past due that the authorities cracked down on this and referee games by the rules as they are written.
If you look at those empire, they can't even play TT. They don't deserve to judge the game. Ittf should rule empire must be 2000 points player before they r qualify to sit on empire chair. What a clown.
maybe those 2000 points player could be serving illegally too 😀
This was over a year ago. Since then I've noticed that the recent tournaments have been slightly better. Some refs have called out some illegal serves. However there is still more to be done.
Referees MUST ENFORCED ITTF RULES ON SERVING. This was completely ridiculous. 4 serving fouls in a single serve and not called??? His entire elbow was on the table prior to the serve. WTF was wrong with that referee, was he bloody BLIND??????
@@canicetang8837 The Chinese system is not really big on enforcement. Now if you pay off the umpire maybe they will enforce something.
What's more to be done? Is it hard to find a man/woman in China, who knows the rules? Or make some person to learn the rules before the tournament... I don't see a problem at all. Or all tennis referees are super corrupted and get paid for unfair judging or something? It's not bodybuilding... no place for such subjective judgment.
@@rockys7726 maybe the judge was his uncle?
When judge is your relative.
Shang kun is such an outstanding player that he played for the Chinese national team in the past.
Even such a player can't help it if his opponent fouls
Let's be clear, here we're not talking about borderline serves. There is no debating most serves of Shang Kun's opponent are blatantly illegal - toss not vertical enough, ball hidden behind the head or the arm... It's not a question of referee position vs player position. It's not playing with the rules, it's breaking them, purposefully.
and repeatedly
He somehow manages to hide some serves behind his shoulder and even his chest. His fuckin chest. That is ridiculous.
idk the rules in china for ittf the ball must not be hidden at any moment so just put camera and let the umpire watch replay if ball hidden fault
That's a really good idea and I've never heard of it until now. I believe it should be implemented
The ball must be visible at any time ,so many serves are illegal.
I think fundentally the service rules need to be updates to be easy to enforce and to facilitate "fair service" , e. g. reciever can see the contact point clearly.
where the umpire currently sits, they arent in a good position to judge this kind of service fault.
That CHEATER'S ENTIRE 'ELBOW' WAS ON THE TABLE BEFORE THE TOSS. The referee can't see THAT?????
@@canicetang8837 you may be right, but i dont think that is what SK was complaining about. i had to watch it in slow mo to see and also we have a much better angle. all im say is that its not always obvious from the judges standpoint that the service is hidden.
@@taumax The cheater hiding the ball with at least half of his body when the ball was struck, so he couldn't see the ball at all.
@@canicetang8837 yes its obivous from our angle, but im not sure the ump vould see it from their angle.
@@taumax Have you ever been to a referee chair at any table tennis tournament? It is 'elevated' like Tennis and right in the middle of the court on the side. You got the best view on either side of the table regardless of right or left handed players.
You can see the hiding clearly as the ball was behind the toss when struck. My rule of thumb is have an imaginary location of the server before the toss and the ball, and the distance behind after, plus any signs that the player crouching to hide the ball.
Yes, I might see the ball, but if the opponent doesn't and too much of the body is hiding the flight of the ball. I would immediately call it. No ifs, ands, or buts.
The throw angle is obviously way too big. Obvious violation. The referee is terrible. The hand blocking was not the reason made Kun failed returning the serve. It was his upset of the referee interfering his focus.
the hand-hide helps as well, since Shang couldn't see how the server hits the ball. so he couldn't read the spin of the ball and that's why he made so many mistakes
The ball was tossed in an angle of 35-45 degrees towards the player itself, this is alone already illegal. Then that player topped it with hiding the serve. Umpires doing nothing in this situation should be penalized in serious amount of money. I would think, that China would have a high culture of playing table tennis, but I am very upset, that this can happen even at national competition level.
The other guy is such a bad sport ... screaming "CHO LEE" so agressivly for the only few point he could win with a legal serve, as if he wanted to say "see ?? even with legal serve I can beat you, you son of a b*****" ... well man, that's just the legal way you should always serve, just play like that always and we will see who win at the end. Being in the wrong and yet agressive with that .. tss
This is like a hilarious parody video on table tennis play and judging. If only it wasn't real.
how many times is a player required to complain/appeal to the referee before the tournament director has to become involved?
can't a player ask *_IMMEDIATELY_* to have the tournament director summoned like in professional *_court_* tennis tournaments?
clearly Leng Dapeng's ball toss is not "near vertically upwards" . . . are video replays not utilized in cases of rules violations like this in table tennis?
Terrible umpiring, it is so obvious that he is hiding the contact point with his arm. Did they not call any of his serves in this match?
Even if no one knows the ITTF serving rules, that cheat's ENTIRE LEFT ELBOW WAS ON THE TABLE well before the toss, so that's okay too?
He should be fired
@@alexdelarge5703 The cheating player should be suspended and the referee sanctioned, if the tournament umpire have any guts at all.
Shang Kun had a few illegal serves of his own too. I'm not sure if he did that to even the score or what, but I understand why he's complaining.
It’s like complaining to your parents about sibling bothering you but parents ignore 😢
отлично. судья видит и знает. что подающий закрывает подачу - но сделать ничего не может...
это современное правосудие?....
Сбоку не так хорошо видно закрывает он или нет. И еще что еще более частые случаи в НТ, это как раз судьи с улицы которые просто не обращают внимание
@@HiltModuleImp ,
для этого есть простое правило: между мячиком и стойками сетки ничего не должно быть. Тогда подача не будет закрыта. Здесь рука остается всегда, так что судья - пи*****.
Судьи без яиц просто. У нас в клубе появился как-то один игрок-скандалист, который даже с девочками препирался и орал, как резаный. Каждый турик был, как цирк. Судье было пофиг, мы его терпели месяц. Пока не пришёл другой, девушка, которая на первый его ор его предупредила, на второй дисквалифицировала. Аплодировали все.
sad enough no one cares about illegal serves even in higher amateur classes, but this is ridicolous
using the hand to cover the ball when the rubber strikes the ball, notice how the opponent uses the hand to obscure Kun vision until the last split second.
dirty player he's win has NO Value in the True world of Table Tennis.
Umpire angle and player angle can be vastly different where even a slight degree makes a lot of difference. This is why this obstruction rule is very subjective....like the seven blind men touching and describing an elephant.
doesn't matter. it's clearly obvious that the ball gets thrown behind the body and gets hid behind the body during the serve
@@TheSunnyHands And it's thrown nowhere near vertical
This problem will never be solved till the service rules are drastically changed. This whole manner of serving should be thrown out. The body of the player (except for the hands during toss and racket contact) should be further from the table than the ball at all times during service.
Corrupt player and referee, to allow the dirty serves.
I admire how Shang Kun stays calm and always within the rules of the game, only complaining to the referee again and again, then to the tournament referee, ... And still does not loose his nerves. This is true zen, a true professional.
Yes, thats admirable and something to learn from.
Yeah if it was me, the referee would have ended with red, paddle shaped marks on both sides of his face
If you throw the ball at mid table and plays it at the edge, this is around 75 cm horizontally. You either breaks Euclide's rules of geometry or those of table tennis ! If think it is more likey that it's the second one who are breached.
The problem is the illegal serve guy, he thought he had very good serves.
Once upon a time the services was a part of the magic of tt. Both Gou Yuehua and Jan-Ove Waldner had celebrated careérs because of their "magic" serve.
There was those who couldn´t read the services very well and then there were those who could read it just fine.
Just like with Tennis.
Leng Dapeng is cheating, plain and simple. That's as illegal as it gets. He knew it and he kept on doing it.
Here in the USA, there are ranked players with 30 years experience that don't know the basic serving rules. Trainers and the USATT do nothing to promote fair play. I'm not sure you can even call it a sport here!
1:20-1:26 Well, if he didn't want to grin, he suppressed himself well.😅 And lost in the end.😂
Do something right now.
or I will retire from table tennis.
Even though I didn't enter the Ping Pong.
2021年乒乓球最新骂人的话，你发球真像冷大鹏😄😄😄
The umpire adds so much frustration and mental anguish to Shang Kun by stubbornly refusing, in a very polite and appeasing manner, to call foul on Shang's opponent. This is almost passive-aggressive - seemingly very courteous and compromise seeking, but nonetheless unyielding in exerting his authority.
Ball isn't going up, it's going backwards, and being hidden, and why doesn't he call for the referee?
In table tennis, if a player serves illegally, the umpire will call a "fault" and award the point to the opponent. The specific penalty for an illegal serve is a point for the opponent. This means that if the server commits an illegal serve, their opponent will automatically win the point, regardless of whether or not they were able to return the serve.
Examples of illegal serves include failing to toss the ball vertically upward, hiding the ball during the toss, failing to strike the ball with the racket so that it touches the server's court first before crossing over the net, or serving from an incorrect location on the table.
It is important to note that in some cases, a player may be warned before being penalized for an illegal serve. For example, if a player fails to toss the ball vertically upward on their first serve, the umpire may issue a warning rather than immediately awarding a point to the opponent. However, if the same player commits a second illegal serve, the umpire will likely award a point to the opponent.
Shang kun is right to be dissapointed. And the opponent to be banned from TT
According to the rules of table tennis, the serve must be made by tossing the ball vertically upwards from the palm of the free hand, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm (6.3 inches) after leaving the palm of the hand, and then must be struck so that it touches the server's court first and then touches the receiver's court. The ball must not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.
The server must stand behind the end line of the table and with at least one foot behind the imaginary extension of the center line of the table. The server's free hand must not be used to obscure the ball during the toss, and the ball must be visible to the receiver at all times. The opponent is not allowed to use their arm or shoulder to hide the ball during the serve, as this would be considered an illegal obstruction and result in a point for the server.
It is important to note that the rules and regulations of table tennis may vary slightly depending on the governing body or tournament being played, so it's always best to familiarize yourself with the specific rules and regulations before playing or officiating a game.
If a player feels that the referee is not enforcing the rules correctly, despite their protests and complaints about illegal serves, there are several actions they can take.
Firstly, they can request that the referee calls for the umpire to come and adjudicate the match. The umpire is a senior official who has the authority to make decisions regarding the application of the rules, and their decision is final.
If the player still feels that the umpire is not enforcing the rules correctly, they can make an official protest. This involves filling out a form and submitting it to the tournament director or referee. The tournament director or referee will then review the protest and make a decision regarding whether the rules were correctly applied.
In addition, the player can also request a video review of the match, if available. Many tournaments have video review systems in place, where replays of key moments in the match can be reviewed to determine whether the rules were correctly applied.
Ultimately, it is important for players to remain calm and composed when dealing with issues related to the application of the rules. They should continue to play to the best of their ability and trust that the officials will make the correct decision. If they feel that the officials have made an error, they can take the appropriate steps to address the situation, but should do so in a respectful and professional manner.
Chinese make very bad referees: if you losing you're not listen to but if you're winning they will start enforcing the law as in this case. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
When you are facing the relative of party official.. They can do no wrong.
Just China for you.
illegal serve. they are professional but they don't know which one is illegal serve.
Simple rule change: no part of the player can come between the ball and the net during the service.
There, I fixed it for you...
This is the simplest and best rule. But when will "they" understand ?
@@arcyken It's not a rule currently implemented. To clarify, no part of the player may come between the parallel plane of the net and the parallel plane of the ball, during the service.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 That's good. Easy for a referee to judge. Perhaps add clauses 'above the table' and 'at the point of contact' to your suggestion. That would allow for the initial ball toss. The difficulty I see is players like to use the non playing arm for balance.
@@geoffchandler8684 I don't care too much about the ball being below table-height for the simple reason that it's more important to see the ball contact right before striking the racquet than the upward flight.
Leaning on the table with one's forearm could be accommodated for by not being defined as not part of the player's body or their clothing, but I suspect that would get abused by some enterprising tricksters.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 well my concern was that too - perhaps a tiny camera mounted at the base of the net could give the referee a better idea of whether hand blocking was happening - it would have to be an improvement
Probably couldn't win without cheating.
就这上困还是艰难赢了
lol... even when he switched to reverse pendulum, he hid the ball with his free hand.
No where near near vertical. this wouldnt fly at my local club. ridiculous!
there is no "more" legal - legal is binary - either a serve is or it is not legal
they should implement video reviews for these complaints, and disqualifications for 2-3x offender 😉
I saw it back then, it was mad how the umpire said nothing. I wish i could understand what they say.
you can see the body language of the illegal server he knows he is cheating
Pena que não tem legenda...seria muito legal entender as reclamações do jogador e o juiz falando.
裁判眼瞎了吗? 手伸在前面看不见?
Rien qu'a sa position de départ, d'office tu comprends que ce sera illegale. Il allonge son bras sur la table loin de son corps 😂 d'office qu'il doit la ramener vers lui pour servire. Faut pas être en face pour le remarquer
How hard could it be? Referee should change his job.
I hate people who do illegal serves intentionally
Not fair to Shang.
Nunca vi alguém ser tão prejudicado em uma partida.
É perceptível que o Shang é mais habilidoso e que seu adversário utilizou saques ilegais para igualar a partida. Mas parabéns o Shang por vencer de maneira limpa.
why is this illegal in the first place ?
Thank you for the translation. Not.?
if you anint cheating you aint trying...
Ref kayu
Shang kun is not sportman...big disslike for him.serve from opponent is amazing..I like..
yea let me give you those serve, you will lose against me
Referee is a total failure
I would shout (to focus other referees' and public's attention on it) "Cheating serve" each time the opponent does it, as he has been warned enough before.
Clearly it's very destablilizing to see that the referee doesn't punish or at least correct the illegal thing
BTW , as we can see , those chinese illegal-serve players would not be promoted (from CTTA) to play international level.
The only solution in this case : hide your own service too.
7:14 SK claims this was a net ball but the umpire says no.
I agree with the ref about the net but not the service
8:53 lol Shang Kun eventually win the game, what a shame for blue guy. imagine already cheating the whole game, and still LOST. blue guy need to get good
It should be like in tennis to call it out. If he call 3 time wrong, he arent allowed to call again. but if he is right, the point goes straight to him. just easy as that. this referry should be disciplined before ever calling a game again^^
Solution….make sure you’ve practiced your own illegal serve for such an occasion.
Referee?????
Ni en tenis de mesa ni en tenis hay servicios "ilegales", porque la ley aquí nada tiene que ver. Otra cosa son los servicios 'antirreglamentarios', que a veces sí ocurren.
Si hay
@@morb2827 Incurrir en algo "ilegal" presupone quebrantar una ley, mientras que cometer un acto antirreglamentario implica transgredir un reglamento. ¿Captas ahora o seguirás porfiando?
@@odrauderojas2576 Ok pero si hay servicios ilegales
@@morb2827 O estás traduciendo literalmente del inglés o eres muy porfiado. ¿Qué 'ley' transgreden esos servicios que llamas "ilegales"? Ninguna, ya que la práctica del tenis de mesa no se rige por ninguna ley, sino por un reglamento.
There's actually 2 violations...
To hide the ball, the toss is not vertical but towards his own boy so that it's hidden.
Походу у китайцев свои внутренние правила ).
Подача явно выполняется с нарушением правила подброса мяча - мяч накидывается и скрывается при подаче, но наверное судье виднее ).
What a joke - so hiding the ball is now OK - I get in trouble calling fouls in local league when I feel they are gaining an advantage.
He's using his arm to hide the ball. In slow motion its quite blatant.
Y la pregunta del millón (pa los q no jugamos ping pong).... Xq es ilegal???
The rules of table tennis followed in China are generally the same as the rules followed internationally. The International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) is the governing body for table tennis worldwide and sets the rules and regulations that are followed in all international competitions, including those held in China.
In China, table tennis is a very popular sport, and the country has produced many world-class players who have won numerous Olympic and World Championship titles. As such, the rules of the game are taken very seriously, and players are expected to follow them strictly.
It is important to note that some local tournaments or events may have slightly different rules or regulations, so it is always best to confirm the specific rules being used before playing or officiating a game in China.
Comment sounds more like propaganda than a real observation.
TImes like these confuse me on how these people got their jobs
뒤로 던지고 몸으로 가리면서 팔로도 가리는데 ㅋㅋㅋ
심판은 뭐하냐 ㅋㅋㅋ
생체에서도 저정도는 심판이 태클검
Yes, the ITTF rules and regulations were followed during the 2021 ITTF World Cup, which was held in Weihai, China. As an international competition sanctioned by the ITTF, all players and officials were required to follow the rules and regulations set by the ITTF.
During the tournament, players were expected to adhere to the standard rules of table tennis, including rules regarding serving, scoring, and gameplay. The tournament officials were also required to follow the ITTF guidelines for umpiring and adjudicating matches.
Overall, the ITTF works closely with its member associations, including the Chinese Table Tennis Association, to ensure that the rules and regulations of table tennis are followed consistently and fairly in all competitions around the world.
Most clubs in Asia (that I have played at) do not follow basic rules of TT. Lots of white t-shirts and shorts, even more illegal serving. Definitely takes fun and respect out of the game.
I played for almost 15 years professional also for national team..the worst shit they inveted was the so called illegal serve..it killed the 'joke' the fun..serve was a thing in table tennis like tennis..now its just a begin of a point,nothing special,boring....and those guys who complaint, should just open their eyes and look at the damn ball...
If I'm Shang Kun I start illegal serving like crazy here (assuming he has it in his arsenal).
if you are loosing some points no one is going to believe you, because they think that you are using it as an excuse for loosing
Shang Kun should make his opponent to feel annoyed and his pov should be: so you want to play like this
It would be great to know what the refs reasoning was, why he doesn’t do anything?
It really is annoying. Also the argueing is annoying about serves that are very close to be illegal or legal.
Maybe they should change the rule and make it more clear, like: "The ball must be visible at ALL time. And get your arm out of the way completely and immediately after the toss."
So no hiding with the head, the arm or the body at all. Not even for a milisecond.
Not enough... body should be further from table than the ball at all times during service except for the hands (during toss and racket contact). No more of this serving "into the body" crap.
In good light, any of the trickiest serves make no sense.
Haha the end Ma Long hide the ball with his face as well :))))
Can't the left handed player step to his left to see the serve better?
Oh he's hiding it with his arm. I see now.
why sweat when u can get a point by hidding a toss
His serve is no better than opponent
2.6.2 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without
imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free
hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck.
2.6.4 From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of
the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be
hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by
anything they wear or carry.
Maybe the umpire doesn't have a picnic yet 😄
So, were the serves legal or not? And if they were not legal why were the points won by the server with the illegal serves not replayed?
refs are corrupt, what do you expect ? of course they won't replay the illegal serve
Hands down a ILLEGAL serve!💯
A ver ,, esto va para los "árbitros´" parciales y vendidos,,si la norma dice claramente que hay que retirar el brazo antes de contactar con la bola,,hay que cumplirlo,,nos guste o no,,
In pro wrestling, it's Face vs Heel
Should quit the game in protest.