I really appreciate the effort and thought you put into digging deeper into the novels and lore. All in a very positive and welcoming manner which is what our hobby should be all about. Even now we need more people involved so its easier to find games especially outside of major metropolitan areas.
Worth mentioning that even though Horus was playing with Sanguinius, it's said that he still was moving faster than any Primarch and hitting harder than any and Sang STILL beat de-powered Horus. Loved the descriptions of Sang's skill just before the end, saying nothing else in the universe could have replicated that skill and yet it was still not enough to beat God-tier Horus.
Keep and mind the angel was severely weakened, tired , injured , gear broken , trying to control the black rage and not really wanting to kill his bro and still press foward . Absolute Chad
These videos remind me of times in my younger years. Times when I would see a movie, play a game or read a book and later catch up with my friends. We would chat for hours about what we saw/played/read and speculate for hours of where the story and lore would go. There is a strong nostalgic comfort I get from this commentary that I love.
Damn.. he got beaten into pulp and still did NOT fall. I'd be devastated and enraged, but also inspired if he were my primarch. What if the Emperor's hope and humanity finds the primarch spirits in the warp, saves them from the demons, and Sanguinius returns to fight Horus as the Emperor's warp…angel ?
@@Legitpenguins99 Sanguinius? Sure he is. But yet he still puts in the time with his favourite sons. They're made of warp stuff and are a little more robust than the average soul.
Yeah, but either Sanguinius or Big E are like Jesus. There's going to be a 2nd coming, if Horus is like Judas in the tale. There's a chance for bullshit @@Legitpenguins99
Even though I knew that Sangiunus had to die, it still broke my heart when Horus killed him. As a fan of Blod Angels, I hope that Sanginus will return somehow. Thanks for this awesome video and happy birthday sandman🎉
I think that will cheapen his sacrifice. He went to his death, knowing it would happen and he remained true to humanity and the Emperor. Like an angel.
I agree with both of you. I feel that a storyline where the Sanguinor finds a shard of Sanguinius and ascends to primarch level strength would do justice to both Sanguinius' sacrifice, and give the BA the same toys the other chapters will eventually have
No, Sanguinius cannot be brought back. Part of the reason he is so popular is that he went to his death even knowing it was coming. It would really cheapen this huge moment if that gets retconned, no matter how sly the retcon is.
The trick of the prophecy is Sanguinius died in a day without end, when the time is stopped. This surely have effects on the "soul" of Sanguinius being "trapped" on the Vengeful Spirit. So he is not "really" dead.
Surely Loken has to die at the hands of his father. The son who challenged his father as his father has done. The son mortally wounds the father but the father kills the son. Poetic symmetry
Regarding Sanguinius' "soul", the Bloody Angel is just the combination of the light and dark angels of Baal - it explains they are not Sanguinius himself - so if we accept the theory that the Emperor merged his primarchs with warp entities, the Angel of Baal is said warp entity. Sanguinus himself started communicating directly with Dante after the Vengeful Spirit was badly damaged at the end of the 13th Black Crusade so I think the crystal statue does indeed house Sanguinius himself. Also the trailer video for the new Dante model shows Dante's broken body being cradled by a statue of his primarch, which then shatters and Dante is reborn.. so be interesting to see how that actually plays out. It's actually not explicitly stated anywhere in Arks of Omen that Dante crossed the rubicon so we may see something here if in reality Dante crosses after Angron swatted him down.
Not confirmed it actually was Sanguinius that appeared before Dante. It may be nothing more than an NDE from oxygen deprivation in the brain. When Mephiston sees a similar vision it actually says it isn’t Sanguinius.
@@jonharrison9222 yeah but Dante's vision says it IS Sanguinius, so.. plus let's be honest yes it COULD be Dante going mad but we know fair well it's the spirit of Glorious Hawk Boy.
@@jonharrison9222 wasn’t it confirmed that the first visage of his view was the sanguinor but then the sanguinor moved and behind it was Sanguinius that then approached Dante?
I think Loken has to play significantly into the final act more as I distinctly remember Horus recalling to the remembrancer that Loken was the Sanguinius of his legion... as I see it, it if the emperor loves sanguinius so much, for Horus to feel that for Loken has to play a part in the finale of how the emperor is able to beat Horus
So, I thought it was even more insidious, consider: Horus is at his xenith at this point, and the warp empowers him entirely, making this time-rift occur. He thinks it is his will altering reality. But we know that the warp by itself doesn't end time, but bends it in concurrence with the conscious and subconscious fears, desires and emotions that are strongest. Knowing that, it seems very likely to me that it is actually his subconscious manifesting the desire to drag out this moment, stalling until his brother (and perhaps even father) die. Which makes the moment even more heartfelt: imagine having all the power in the universe, literally being able to (temporarily) will things into existence. And yet still, your most feared moments are inevitable, because they have nothing to do with willpower, but with freedom of choice and the connection with others. It is exactly that power (and: spoiler alert!) that the emperor has to set aside in order to conquer Horus. Which - I wouldn't be surprised - is actually not a feat of strength in the end, but of forgiveness and acceptance. Sure, there will be a huge battle, but it would be very logical that it is Horus' power - his hybris, which is the connecting theme between all 40k stories - that brings him down. Thinking of this, I am very curious how Horus - who is empowered by all Chaos gods - would not be able to reincarnate somewhere in the warp. Unless he loses the favor of the gods in the end....?
He was im-powered by the chaos gods, he didn't become a demon prince. Therefore he is still basically a creature of the normal world.( such that it is) . Not the warp.
I hope Sanguinius doesn't return, at least not fully. It would be cool to have the Sanguinor merge with the Black Angel to become a warp approximation of Sanguinius. That way, tactically speaking, it would be the primarch of the blood angels, but in character interactions it would be a reminder of what was lost during the herecy. You could write really compelling inner struggle for this warp Sanguinius, struggling with his identity and with reacting to other primarchs accepting or not accepting him as their brother. Also, would be fun if he and a returned Rogal Dorn liked each other, but Dorn's anty-warp aura didn't let them hang out
In my opinion, the reason Sanguinius goes onto the Vengeful Spirit is the same reason Neo goes after Morphius in the Matrix. If he doesnt go then the Emperor would have to of lost to Horus for the fight still to happen between Sanguinius Vs Horus (which Sanguinius had forseen)
Still hoping for Corax in book 3, and have him fully engulf his warp abilities either by choice or transferred by the emperor - have him fight Horus while the emperor charges up his soul destroyer ability.
I liked the theory(s) that the legend of Horus Vs Emperor & Sanguinius is actually a cover for something imperium-shattering... Like for example, Sang fell and tried to kill E and then it was H that stopped him and in the process was killed somehow
Call me the administration Q anon here, but I'm 100% that Horus wins the fight, but Empy punches the naughtiness out of him before he's obliterated and you got the Primarch of the 16th on that there Golden Throne. 🌶️🌶️🌶️
29:50 "Samguinius was always going to die". Yeah but why do my boy dirty like they did. Ruined his sacrifice, no more dying for cracking a weak link in his armour anymore. Just nothing
Totally agree...wtf was the point to sanguinius death? He literally did nothing. He could have stayed on terra and lived and it wouldnt have affected the outcome at all??!! Wtf Abnett???
Think about this: In previous books, on multiple occasions, Horus belittles the God's of Chaos, and/or their loyal minions. And, he constantly places HIMSELF ABOVE THEM. I don't think they WANT HIM ALIVE after he serves his purpose. And, most likely, this is how the Emperor wins, they withdraw their power from Horus, but only AFTER he MAIMS the Emperor.
From what I got sanguinius had to go up to horus as if he doesn't then the day will never end so for big e to win he must die ....not that he won't give a good go at it but he rationalises that he needs to face him or time can't continue
What if the Golden Throne is more of a prison than anything else? That Emperor finally became Dark King during a fight with Horus, and Horus basically saved the galaxy, by hurting him. The emperor getting out of the Throne, healed would be like a victory of Chaos and the birth of a new Chaos deity.
Honestly I stared at the pages of the book when Horus went full chainsaw massacre on Sanguinius, Dan Abnett wrote it so well you thought there would be a chance. The detail on what actually happened was so brutal and to be honest it was upsetting to think of all the things that Sanguinius had done in the Siege and before that. He just got ripped apart like a dog
That whole description of the warp just tearing reality apart and the crushing doom felt by everyone on Terra was bad enough. Sanguinius knowledge of what was coming then went anyway took brass. The fight was a foregone conclusion we know but the sheer brutality of what him and the emperor went thru in battling Horus was beyond anything I could ever have imagined. Even knowing how it would end still didn’t prepare me for the reality of it In the past it was like, yeah the emperor and sanguinius fought Horus and lost and won, but 😳 damm
I think we may see a bait and switch like what happened with Magnus. Magnus couldnt see what really happened in the throne room and horus could be the same. He's a ruined, disemboweled wreck, his body in ruin and only standing because he's animated by the dark gods.
cool point would be if sangy was just trying to give his sons his strength as he was dying. they couldnt handle all of it so black rage. be pretty cool he tries to give some of himself to prevent being eaten in the warp and help his sons. was suppose to be a gift but totally screws them
If Sanguinius ever returns it will only be when a redeemed Horus does. That way he will face the brother he remembers, and not the monstrous Chaos corrupted version he faces here.
I still like the theory that sanguinius fell to the black rage and bodied horus, and the emperor had to kill him and then kill horus so there were no witnesses. Makes it much more tragic.
The Big E was negligent. He should've forbid Sanguinius and made him Regent Apparent, kept Dorn as Protector of the Realm, Robute as Lord Seneschal Adminstrator, LIon as Warmaster...and all the other Primarchs in positions suited to task as an insurance of structure should he fall so that the whole thing didn't fall apart like it did. Big E was Big Dumby in this regard...and that's why you shouldn't write characters that are far more intelligent than the authors.
I find it funny that the Chaos gods inform Horus that the Emperor is trying to become a god. But Horus makes the Emperor a god in the end. Almost a self fulfilling prophecy.
Maybe horus kept going back and counciling all the dead marines and friends to ask them what went wrong and how to change things if the same happened again .. there be one step ahead because with some things in life if it works don't change it
Lil plot twist for future books. What if sanguinious is a perpetual but he was that skilled in combat no one could fell him properly other than horus with the help of angrons black blades damage. Could be why they had to hold his soul captive maybe not just a trophy. Just an off the wall theory so please dont flame me for it 😂 love your work sir and hearing all the theories and hard work you do for us common terra hive mobs 🫡
I want Sanguinius to come back just to utter to Horus as he dies, “As I said brother, you lack” Sanguinius’s card is the martyr. Right now his battle doesn’t really live up to a martyr type death. I think he gives his soul to permanently kill Horus and himself. Maybe using the dagger.
Personal head cannon about dorns death He's not dead he's in the bowwles of the vengful spirit as abbadons play thing for hos huburus would totaly make him want to brake the unbrakeable primarch
what if horus brings malcador infront of the wounded emperor? and as the emperor has his love and loyalty seperated from him he sucrifices malcador to kill horus?
I feel that the emperor will summon the primarchs as demons in the end and he will battle the chaos gods to try to withdraw the powers of the gods from Horus and all the primarchs will kill Horus and the sanguinius demon will be a Berserking monsterk and he will kill Horus
Okay, so the community is very divided on _Part 2,_ I see. It's either amazing or it sucked. 😂 (Does anyone else think John Grammaticus brings thestory to a screeching halt everytime he appears in the book?) Okay, more seriously, what do you think of the theory about Big E. having created the Primarchs by putting minor Warp Gods into mortal bodies Sandman? It might never come to be, but I expect we're gonna have an explanation about the nature of the Primarchs eventually. Maybe when Corax returns properly into the 40k setting. Who knows? Anyway, the end is in sight, and the death of a dream as well. That is how I would sum up this final trilogy. :)
Im not really a big fan of angron, but i have always felt sorry for him somewhat. Even for all of his gifts, he is a perpetual victim. One thing after another, but then the his moans thing puts a fine point on it again. He didnt even get to choose being a daemon prince, that was done to him by lorgar. Im absolutely not calling him innocent by any means, but i have always been curious what it would have looked like to have an undamaged even tempered empath angron who hadnt spent his entire life being victimized by other people.
Sanguinius as champion of khorne might make him even mightier than Horus himself. Its why he didnt want kabandha to succeed during the Signus debacle as that will threaten his position. He still wants Sanguinius to fall that is true, but as a subordinate, not his equal nor his better, which is why he went with the mismatched nurgle path for him i think, to nerf him.
I do not think it was mismatched. Sanguinius was very compassionate. And the Chaos God twisting compassion is the Plague Lord. If anything, it also fits the Angel. I think that aside from Horus, Sanguinius was the only Primarch who could've embodied the four Gods.
@@Archon3960 that is true, he is vicious in combat, quite possibly the most vicious among his brothers. He is kind to his fellow men, he has the power of foresight and radiates the easy perfection that so pleases slaanesh. He will always match khorne best, and if converted by khorne might attract more favour from the others as they fight for his soul, that must be what Horus fears.
My guess at this stage is that a primach will intevene during the fight between Horus and the Emperor, aiding in defeating Horus, Conrad Curze or Corvus Corax or Alpharius (Going Under The Name Omegon), one of them will turn the tide in the Emperors favour imo
I was very disappointed that the bit in the lore of sanguinius causing damage to horus armour was retconned totoally oht of it. Whay was the point of his death...he literally did nothing to horus? It was a wtf moment. He kept going on throuout the hh that he knew he would die and it was essential...then did absolutely sweet nothing to horus. He didnt need to go...he died for nothing and achieved nothing...wtf Abnett???
I think it was more of an emotional blow to Horus rather than a physical one. He shed a tear before having to fight him, it’s probably the one thing he regretted having to do.
@Cloudy_Jones yeah ok, but when the older lore had him valiantly giving his life to create a weakness, abnett turned him into a valueless death. He literally had no effect on the outcome of the Emp fighting horus....so why the need for him to go there knowing it would mean his death? He couldve stayed on earth, stayed alive and thr emp wouldve fought horus and had the same outcome....a wasted death and a crushing blow to sanguinius fans who have seen their main dude downgraded to bit part....glad i collect salamanders and ultramarines!😅😅
Horus aged by 1,000 years after going through the gate at Molech. Do we know for sure he was fighting the battles of the dark gods in the warp? If so, given the nature of time (or lack thereof) in the warp...do you think this might be how GW brings Horus back to 40K at some point?
Am I the only one who wants Primarch Zero, The OG Angel, to make an appearance or is he too non-fleshed out? He could be like the Grey Knights' primarch. I think I'm interested in him because he's like the A-bomb, complete game changer.
Any time manipulation is nonsense and they should avoid it as it simply ruins all stories and sacrifices. In moment when I see that they (authors) play this card I’m loosing all interest as they start to create ultimate mcguffin.
Sanguinius representing Nergal isn’t a novel idea. You should look up the Dornian Heresy. It’s an old fan made alternate version of the Heresy if it had been lead by Dorn instead of Horus with the roles of the loyalists and traitor Primarchs reversed. In that story Snguinius also joined Nergal.
In my headcanon Horus did indeed wipe the floor with glorious hawkboy, however Sanguinius was not yet dead when super-juiced Horus faced the Emperor. As he lay gasping he witnessed his father at the last use the darkest powers of the Warp to defeat the Warmaster. Turning to his wrecked son, the Emperor casts a flickering glamour on himself that lends him the face of Horus. He extends a taloned gauntlet to Sanguinius' throat for there can be no witnesses to the dark pact made nor impediment to the desperate path to come... ...in his confusion, his despair his rage...the soul of Sanguinius shuddered... As did that of every one of his sons for generations to come.
like your content and trying to give my point of view and be constructive "criticism" your content is best in the Q&A and in long form deep dives. The ROgue trader add kinda was pretty meh. lots of folks out there being sponsored. Nothing against that but you would do much better next time doing say a long form explanation on rogue trader lore. a 2 hour fam interaction on tidbits of rogue traders would have been a lot better.. do sponsored q&a vids / chat vids. Ex space marine 2. Do sponsored long form Q&A on why titus could be chaos resitant.(not original 40k did a 10 minute showing but 2 hours in depth would be interesting to watch and somtehitng to the community I think)
Tbh Sanguinius could easily have been healed when The Emperor sends out the healing wave. The story is not in order as you later on hear about Rogal Dorn feeling the wave and Valdor when he feels the wave and is fully healed. I'm fully expecting Sanguinius was defeated BEFORE the wave is sent out. So you will see black rage Sanguinius. For me, it's the only reason the writers would add this "healing wave" curing everyone of their wounds. The fact it reached Dorn and Valdor also tells you the wave can reach the Vengeful spirit and works there too.
Why was the Lion's character development guaranteed? Does his new book explain why he's so different now he's woken up? I don't understand how someone can change so much by just being asleep...
So now we kinda, know why bigE was against religious cult of himself - he feared that it will cause the dark king prophesy. But i dont understand why chaos4 is not against, but for it.
I really appreciate the effort and thought you put into digging deeper into the novels and lore. All in a very positive and welcoming manner which is what our hobby should be all about. Even now we need more people involved so its easier to find games especially outside of major metropolitan areas.
Thanks man, really nice to hear
Worth mentioning that even though Horus was playing with Sanguinius, it's said that he still was moving faster than any Primarch and hitting harder than any and Sang STILL beat de-powered Horus. Loved the descriptions of Sang's skill just before the end, saying nothing else in the universe could have replicated that skill and yet it was still not enough to beat God-tier Horus.
God tier horus is scary powerful
Unless he actually defeated him and was stuck in the black rage and the emperor kled him to save songs reputation
Keep and mind the angel was severely weakened, tired , injured , gear broken , trying to control the black rage and not really wanting to kill his bro and still press foward .
Absolute Chad
These videos remind me of times in my younger years. Times when I would see a movie, play a game or read a book and later catch up with my friends. We would chat for hours about what we saw/played/read and speculate for hours of where the story and lore would go. There is a strong nostalgic comfort I get from this commentary that I love.
"Everyone dies brother"...god-damn, from Sanguinius as well! Right in the feels 😢
Of course sanguinius looks like Henry Cavill.
Damn.. he got beaten into pulp and still did NOT fall. I'd be devastated and enraged, but also inspired if he were my primarch. What if the Emperor's hope and humanity finds the primarch spirits in the warp, saves them from the demons, and Sanguinius returns to fight Horus as the Emperor's warp…angel ?
Then be Inspired, for he is Everyone's Primarch!
Easy on the cope brother. He's still dead
@@Legitpenguins99 Sanguinius? Sure he is. But yet he still puts in the time with his favourite sons. They're made of warp stuff and are a little more robust than the average soul.
Yeah, but either Sanguinius or Big E are like Jesus. There's going to be a 2nd coming, if Horus is like Judas in the tale. There's a chance for bullshit @@Legitpenguins99
I love that horus is called the first found instrument of chaos, meaning that alpharious was the first found but is still loyal.
Not necessarily
Even though I knew that Sangiunus had to die, it still broke my heart when Horus killed him. As a fan of Blod Angels, I hope that Sanginus will return somehow.
Thanks for this awesome video and happy birthday sandman🎉
I think that will cheapen his sacrifice. He went to his death, knowing it would happen and he remained true to humanity and the Emperor. Like an angel.
I agree with both of you. I feel that a storyline where the Sanguinor finds a shard of Sanguinius and ascends to primarch level strength would do justice to both Sanguinius' sacrifice, and give the BA the same toys the other chapters will eventually have
No, Sanguinius cannot be brought back. Part of the reason he is so popular is that he went to his death even knowing it was coming. It would really cheapen this huge moment if that gets retconned, no matter how sly the retcon is.
My dude they pooped primaris outta nowhere the lore is trucked has been for a while now@@TheSpicyLeg
Sanguinius death was pointless, it had zero importance to the plot.
The trick of the prophecy is Sanguinius died in a day without end, when the time is stopped.
This surely have effects on the "soul" of Sanguinius being "trapped" on the Vengeful Spirit.
So he is not "really" dead.
He is. We now know 100%
Surely Loken has to die at the hands of his father. The son who challenged his father as his father has done. The son mortally wounds the father but the father kills the son. Poetic symmetry
Erebus
After the Beta Garman, Seige of Terra, and the battle on the Vengeful Spirit Sanguinius is hands down the strongest combat Primarch.
Regarding Sanguinius' "soul", the Bloody Angel is just the combination of the light and dark angels of Baal - it explains they are not Sanguinius himself - so if we accept the theory that the Emperor merged his primarchs with warp entities, the Angel of Baal is said warp entity.
Sanguinus himself started communicating directly with Dante after the Vengeful Spirit was badly damaged at the end of the 13th Black Crusade so I think the crystal statue does indeed house Sanguinius himself. Also the trailer video for the new Dante model shows Dante's broken body being cradled by a statue of his primarch, which then shatters and Dante is reborn.. so be interesting to see how that actually plays out. It's actually not explicitly stated anywhere in Arks of Omen that Dante crossed the rubicon so we may see something here if in reality Dante crosses after Angron swatted him down.
Not confirmed it actually was Sanguinius that appeared before Dante. It may be nothing more than an NDE from oxygen deprivation in the brain.
When Mephiston sees a similar vision it actually says it isn’t Sanguinius.
@@jonharrison9222 yeah but Dante's vision says it IS Sanguinius, so.. plus let's be honest yes it COULD be Dante going mad but we know fair well it's the spirit of Glorious Hawk Boy.
@@jonharrison9222 wasn’t it confirmed that the first visage of his view was the sanguinor but then the sanguinor moved and behind it was Sanguinius that then approached Dante?
still here watching the streams listening about the new books is the highlight of my day
I think Loken has to play significantly into the final act more as I distinctly remember Horus recalling to the remembrancer that Loken was the Sanguinius of his legion... as I see it, it if the emperor loves sanguinius so much, for Horus to feel that for Loken has to play a part in the finale of how the emperor is able to beat Horus
So, I thought it was even more insidious, consider: Horus is at his xenith at this point, and the warp empowers him entirely, making this time-rift occur. He thinks it is his will altering reality. But we know that the warp by itself doesn't end time, but bends it in concurrence with the conscious and subconscious fears, desires and emotions that are strongest. Knowing that, it seems very likely to me that it is actually his subconscious manifesting the desire to drag out this moment, stalling until his brother (and perhaps even father) die.
Which makes the moment even more heartfelt: imagine having all the power in the universe, literally being able to (temporarily) will things into existence. And yet still, your most feared moments are inevitable, because they have nothing to do with willpower, but with freedom of choice and the connection with others.
It is exactly that power (and: spoiler alert!) that the emperor has to set aside in order to conquer Horus. Which - I wouldn't be surprised - is actually not a feat of strength in the end, but of forgiveness and acceptance. Sure, there will be a huge battle, but it would be very logical that it is Horus' power - his hybris, which is the connecting theme between all 40k stories - that brings him down.
Thinking of this, I am very curious how Horus - who is empowered by all Chaos gods - would not be able to reincarnate somewhere in the warp. Unless he loses the favor of the gods in the end....?
He was im-powered by the chaos gods, he didn't become a demon prince. Therefore he is still basically a creature of the normal world.( such that it is) . Not the warp.
Horus couldn't reincarnate cuz the emperor destroyed everything of horus including his soul
I hope Sanguinius doesn't return, at least not fully. It would be cool to have the Sanguinor merge with the Black Angel to become a warp approximation of Sanguinius. That way, tactically speaking, it would be the primarch of the blood angels, but in character interactions it would be a reminder of what was lost during the herecy. You could write really compelling inner struggle for this warp Sanguinius, struggling with his identity and with reacting to other primarchs accepting or not accepting him as their brother. Also, would be fun if he and a returned Rogal Dorn liked each other, but Dorn's anty-warp aura didn't let them hang out
Horus warmastered sanguinius right up his psychic, Then preceded to lupercal all over the emperor and dark god on his face.
😂
Truly the unfathomable power of Mr Horus Heresy.
Truly the primarch of all time
Horus was the real Warhammer 40.000
Twas the hardest dark god ive ever seen. Huge loads of warp spagetti.
I still cannot believe that Ferrus Manus's SKOST is actually cannon. What a time to be alive!
You are weeeeaaakk Vulkan
Great story teller mate, good to listen to
Love this video! Man your content just gets better and better!
Cheers James! Thanks for all your support man. I hope you have a great xmas!
@SandmanofTerra same to you mate, Merry Christmas
In my opinion, the reason Sanguinius goes onto the Vengeful Spirit is the same reason Neo goes after Morphius in the Matrix.
If he doesnt go then the Emperor would have to of lost to Horus for the fight still to happen between Sanguinius Vs Horus (which Sanguinius had forseen)
Walking towards a death you literally know is going to happen and still giving it your all. Chad shit.
Still hoping for Corax in book 3, and have him fully engulf his warp abilities either by choice or transferred by the emperor - have him fight Horus while the emperor charges up his soul destroyer ability.
That could be cool, and I could see that
I liked the theory(s) that the legend of Horus Vs Emperor & Sanguinius is actually a cover for something imperium-shattering... Like for example, Sang fell and tried to kill E and then it was H that stopped him and in the process was killed somehow
Call me the administration Q anon here, but I'm 100% that Horus wins the fight, but Empy punches the naughtiness out of him before he's obliterated and you got the Primarch of the 16th on that there Golden Throne. 🌶️🌶️🌶️
29:50 "Samguinius was always going to die". Yeah but why do my boy dirty like they did. Ruined his sacrifice, no more dying for cracking a weak link in his armour anymore. Just nothing
Totally agree...wtf was the point to sanguinius death? He literally did nothing. He could have stayed on terra and lived and it wouldnt have affected the outcome at all??!! Wtf Abnett???
I think Sanguinius and Ferras will help The Emperor fight Horus and help create an opening for Horus’s defeat
That did not happen.
Think about this: In previous books, on multiple occasions, Horus belittles the God's of Chaos, and/or their loyal minions.
And, he constantly places HIMSELF ABOVE THEM.
I don't think they WANT HIM ALIVE after he serves his purpose.
And, most likely, this is how the Emperor wins, they withdraw their power from Horus, but only AFTER he MAIMS the Emperor.
Horus isn’t dead, he’s just in one of Trazyn’s pokeballs
Gotta catch em all
*"And he’s up."*
16:12 Let me get that primarch boneless
Well delivered and great presentation.
From what I got sanguinius had to go up to horus as if he doesn't then the day will never end so for big e to win he must die ....not that he won't give a good go at it but he rationalises that he needs to face him or time can't continue
What if the Golden Throne is more of a prison than anything else? That Emperor finally became Dark King during a fight with Horus, and Horus basically saved the galaxy, by hurting him. The emperor getting out of the Throne, healed would be like a victory of Chaos and the birth of a new Chaos deity.
Yes, commisar, this one right here.
i love these streams . rewatching many of them
Honestly I stared at the pages of the book when Horus went full chainsaw massacre on Sanguinius, Dan Abnett wrote it so well you thought there would be a chance.
The detail on what actually happened was so brutal and to be honest it was upsetting to think of all the things that Sanguinius had done in the Siege and before that.
He just got ripped apart like a dog
Been waiting since 96 for this battle, glad my favourite wingy boi gave a good account of himself but damn. Felt the shockwaves of his death myself.
Hope you didn't suffer from the black rage too much mate 😂
Instantly made a coffee and had a sit down 😂
That whole description of the warp just tearing reality apart and the crushing doom felt by everyone on Terra was bad enough.
Sanguinius knowledge of what was coming then went anyway took brass. The fight was a foregone conclusion we know but the sheer brutality of what him and the emperor went thru in battling Horus was beyond anything I could ever have imagined.
Even knowing how it would end still didn’t prepare me for the reality of it
In the past it was like, yeah the emperor and sanguinius fought Horus and lost and won, but 😳 damm
“Of all the glorious primarchs created by the Emperor, Horus sure was a dick”
- Anonymous remembrancer
Happy Sanguinala!!
A good stand alone starting novel I would recommend is Brothers of the Snake, by Dan Abnett if I'm not mistaken.
I think we may see a bait and switch like what happened with Magnus. Magnus couldnt see what really happened in the throne room and horus could be the same. He's a ruined, disemboweled wreck, his body in ruin and only standing because he's animated by the dark gods.
By the time the Emperor returns, I think GW Tabletop models will be less plastic, more Millenium Falcon Chessboard
cool point would be if sangy was just trying to give his sons his strength as he was dying. they couldnt handle all of it so black rage. be pretty cool he tries to give some of himself to prevent being eaten in the warp and help his sons. was suppose to be a gift but totally screws them
Chaos had to throw everything at Sangi to win and only at the end did they finally one up him with a juiced up Horus and severely weakened Sangi
If Sanguinius ever returns it will only be when a redeemed Horus does. That way he will face the brother he remembers, and not the monstrous Chaos corrupted version he faces here.
Love watching your videos really appreciate the hard work.
Sangui fighting his heart out, but Horus has the full gauntlet of infinity stones😢
I love this man voice
I still like the theory that sanguinius fell to the black rage and bodied horus, and the emperor had to kill him and then kill horus so there were no witnesses. Makes it much more tragic.
Papa Sang 😭😭😭😭
The Big E was negligent. He should've forbid Sanguinius and made him Regent Apparent, kept Dorn as Protector of the Realm, Robute as Lord Seneschal Adminstrator, LIon as Warmaster...and all the other Primarchs in positions suited to task as an insurance of structure should he fall so that the whole thing didn't fall apart like it did. Big E was Big Dumby in this regard...and that's why you shouldn't write characters that are far more intelligent than the authors.
I find it funny that the Chaos gods inform Horus that the Emperor is trying to become a god. But Horus makes the Emperor a god in the end. Almost a self fulfilling prophecy.
Youd make a great narrator Brother
Happy birthday man!
Thanks!
Happy 45th birthday!
More Sanguinius videos please
Tuned in a lil late but GREAT vid as usual ! Thanks 🙏 happy birthday!🎉
Thank you!!
Maybe horus kept going back and counciling all the dead marines and friends to ask them what went wrong and how to change things if the same happened again .. there be one step ahead because with some things in life if it works don't change it
Lil plot twist for future books. What if sanguinious is a perpetual but he was that skilled in combat no one could fell him properly other than horus with the help of angrons black blades damage. Could be why they had to hold his soul captive maybe not just a trophy. Just an off the wall theory so please dont flame me for it 😂 love your work sir and hearing all the theories and hard work you do for us common terra hive mobs 🫡
When our father returns I hope he is the star child.he should personally end all the false gods
Is the black rage the primarch derivative of The Emperor's alter the Dark King?
Sanguinius looking like Henry Cavil is just *chefs kiss*
Horus Hersey is the true WarHammer of 40,000
The Angel died but his spirit lives on! 😢
I want Sanguinius to come back just to utter to Horus as he dies, “As I said brother, you lack” Sanguinius’s card is the martyr. Right now his battle doesn’t really live up to a martyr type death. I think he gives his soul to permanently kill Horus and himself. Maybe using the dagger.
Personal head cannon about dorns death
He's not dead he's in the bowwles of the vengful spirit as abbadons play thing for hos huburus would totaly make him want to brake the unbrakeable primarch
I thought Lion L'Johnson is considered the primarch with the best fighting skills?
Your voice is really nice and you have very clear pronunciation. Have you tried narrating audiobooks? ❤
I haven't but thank you very much!
Great session, Sandman.
Happy Sanguinala
You too brother
When the Emperor kills Horus, does the power invested in him return to the dark gods or was it destroyed with Horus?
Happy Birthday!!!
what if horus brings malcador infront of the wounded emperor? and as the emperor has his love and loyalty seperated from him he sucrifices malcador to kill horus?
Isn't the black angle Astorath?
nope, astorath is a seperate character
I feel that the emperor will summon the primarchs as demons in the end and he will battle the chaos gods to try to withdraw the powers of the gods from Horus and all the primarchs will kill Horus and the sanguinius demon will be a Berserking monsterk and he will kill Horus
Okay, so the community is very divided on _Part 2,_ I see. It's either amazing or it sucked. 😂
(Does anyone else think John Grammaticus brings thestory to a screeching halt everytime he appears in the book?)
Okay, more seriously, what do you think of the theory about Big E. having created the Primarchs by putting minor Warp Gods into mortal bodies Sandman? It might never come to be, but I expect we're gonna have an explanation about the nature of the Primarchs eventually. Maybe when Corax returns properly into the 40k setting. Who knows?
Anyway, the end is in sight, and the death of a dream as well. That is how I would sum up this final trilogy. :)
Im not really a big fan of angron, but i have always felt sorry for him somewhat. Even for all of his gifts, he is a perpetual victim. One thing after another, but then the his moans thing puts a fine point on it again. He didnt even get to choose being a daemon prince, that was done to him by lorgar. Im absolutely not calling him innocent by any means, but i have always been curious what it would have looked like to have an undamaged even tempered empath angron who hadnt spent his entire life being victimized by other people.
Why does this a
Sanguinius look Cavilly
hanry cavil as sanguinis
Sanguinius as champion of khorne might make him even mightier than Horus himself. Its why he didnt want kabandha to succeed during the Signus debacle as that will threaten his position.
He still wants Sanguinius to fall that is true, but as a subordinate, not his equal nor his better, which is why he went with the mismatched nurgle path for him i think, to nerf him.
No champion of a single Chaos God is more powerful than the Chosen vessel for all 4.
I do not think it was mismatched. Sanguinius was very compassionate. And the Chaos God twisting compassion is the Plague Lord. If anything, it also fits the Angel.
I think that aside from Horus, Sanguinius was the only Primarch who could've embodied the four Gods.
@@Archon3960 that is true, he is vicious in combat, quite possibly the most vicious among his brothers. He is kind to his fellow men, he has the power of foresight and radiates the easy perfection that so pleases slaanesh.
He will always match khorne best, and if converted by khorne might attract more favour from the others as they fight for his soul, that must be what Horus fears.
Happy birthday
My guess at this stage is that a primach will intevene during the fight between Horus and the Emperor, aiding in defeating Horus, Conrad Curze or Corvus Corax or Alpharius (Going Under The Name Omegon), one of them will turn the tide in the Emperors favour imo
Happy birthday 😊
Why is Sanguinius drawn as Henry Cavill?! Lol
48:43 is funny very repayable very smooth lol
Happy Birthday
Thanks!
I was very disappointed that the bit in the lore of sanguinius causing damage to horus armour was retconned totoally oht of it. Whay was the point of his death...he literally did nothing to horus? It was a wtf moment. He kept going on throuout the hh that he knew he would die and it was essential...then did absolutely sweet nothing to horus. He didnt need to go...he died for nothing and achieved nothing...wtf Abnett???
I think it was more of an emotional blow to Horus rather than a physical one. He shed a tear before having to fight him, it’s probably the one thing he regretted having to do.
@Cloudy_Jones yeah ok, but when the older lore had him valiantly giving his life to create a weakness, abnett turned him into a valueless death. He literally had no effect on the outcome of the Emp fighting horus....so why the need for him to go there knowing it would mean his death? He couldve stayed on earth, stayed alive and thr emp wouldve fought horus and had the same outcome....a wasted death and a crushing blow to sanguinius fans who have seen their main dude downgraded to bit part....glad i collect salamanders and ultramarines!😅😅
Horus aged by 1,000 years after going through the gate at Molech. Do we know for sure he was fighting the battles of the dark gods in the warp? If so, given the nature of time (or lack thereof) in the warp...do you think this might be how GW brings Horus back to 40K at some point?
Casuistry
Am I the only one who wants Primarch Zero, The OG Angel, to make an appearance or is he too non-fleshed out? He could be like the Grey Knights' primarch. I think I'm interested in him because he's like the A-bomb, complete game changer.
It was a weird fight no doubt
Leman Russ is named for Leman King of the Rus Vikings. A Viking king who conquered/started russia.
The Rus vikings where the source of the Byzantine Emperor's Varangian Guard.
And then the mongolians ran it for awhile lol
...will you run?
Any time manipulation is nonsense and they should avoid it as it simply ruins all stories and sacrifices. In moment when I see that they (authors) play this card I’m loosing all interest as they start to create ultimate mcguffin.
Couldn’t agree more
Sanguinius representing Nergal isn’t a novel idea. You should look up the Dornian Heresy. It’s an old fan made alternate version of the Heresy if it had been lead by Dorn instead of Horus with the roles of the loyalists and traitor Primarchs reversed. In that story Snguinius also joined Nergal.
Happy birthday lore master🎉🎉🎉
In my headcanon Horus did indeed wipe the floor with glorious hawkboy, however Sanguinius was not yet dead when super-juiced Horus faced the Emperor. As he lay gasping he witnessed his father at the last use the darkest powers of the Warp to defeat the Warmaster. Turning to his wrecked son, the Emperor casts a flickering glamour on himself that lends him the face of Horus. He extends a taloned gauntlet to Sanguinius' throat for there can be no witnesses to the dark pact made nor impediment to the desperate path to come...
...in his confusion, his despair his rage...the soul of Sanguinius shuddered... As did that of every one of his sons for generations to come.
like your content and trying to give my point of view and be constructive "criticism" your content is best in the Q&A and in long form deep dives. The ROgue trader add kinda was pretty meh. lots of folks out there being sponsored. Nothing against that but you would do much better next time doing say a long form explanation on rogue trader lore. a 2 hour fam interaction on tidbits of rogue traders would have been a lot better.. do sponsored q&a vids / chat vids. Ex space marine 2. Do sponsored long form Q&A on why titus could be chaos resitant.(not original 40k did a 10 minute showing but 2 hours in depth would be interesting to watch and somtehitng to the community I think)
Good shout, I appreciate the feedback!
Sanguinius death was pointless...
Tbh Sanguinius could easily have been healed when The Emperor sends out the healing wave. The story is not in order as you later on hear about Rogal Dorn feeling the wave and Valdor when he feels the wave and is fully healed. I'm fully expecting Sanguinius was defeated BEFORE the wave is sent out. So you will see black rage Sanguinius. For me, it's the only reason the writers would add this "healing wave" curing everyone of their wounds. The fact it reached Dorn and Valdor also tells you the wave can reach the Vengeful spirit and works there too.
Why was the Lion's character development guaranteed? Does his new book explain why he's so different now he's woken up? I don't understand how someone can change so much by just being asleep...
Because his "perfect legion" was revealed to be corrupt, his planet was destroyed, and his best friend had betrayed him
I would make Dante appear from the future and die to save the Emperor in the past, just to mess with the story and subvert expectations.
So now we kinda, know why bigE was against religious cult of himself - he feared that it will cause the dark king prophesy.
But i dont understand why chaos4 is not against, but for it.